Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
Since men don't participate in these groups, their only information has to come from women who have participated. And more than likely these women didn't feel as you do. Although it's wonderful that you have such a positive experience. I'm wondering why you're not still part of this circle? Will you be starting one yourself, so that other women can learn the value of gifting from your experience? From the way you describe it, women can truly benefit if they have the right perspective.
Any of us, men and women can benefit from gifting to others in time, service, or commodities. I have been gifting for over 20 years, on a regular basis, and when I was making good money, I made a financial commitment to gift $100 a week to someone in great need. I still gift, but not as much, only because there's not as much $$ to gift. The gifts of time and service are still given, but outside of a circle, and just from one to another, with no expectation of receiving anything back, not even a thank you.
My recent large gift was to share housing with a homeless person for 10 months. That was a huge gift of time, energy, privacy and money, with no expectation. I even shared my twin bed. There was no appreciation, plenty of criticism, blame, and resentment from the one gifted, the one who felt powerless. I will be very careful with my precious gifts from this day forward.
And I'm in deep appreciation to have my twin bed all to myself once again. Sometimes it's the little things we take for granted that are the greatest gifts we have.
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Posted in reply to the post by K:
I was about to post an ad and was shocked to see the same OLD, mental habits of men trying to tell women what to do. What they should be afraid of. What to do with something you have no experience in.
Barry........ why do ask such questions about gifting activities....really why?
...
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
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Posted in reply to the post by K:
I was about to post an ad and was shocked to see the same OLD, mental habits of men trying to tell women what to do.
I tell everyone what to do, in the sense of insisting that no one victimize others. I tell robbers, rapists, murderers and swindlers of all genders not to do that. I notice you're trying to tell men what to do (i.e., telling them not to tell women what to do). Have you ever suggested that men shouldn't, for instance, rape or kill? I'm insisting that no one, male, female or otherwise, should swindle others out of their money. Do you have a problem with that?
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What to do with something you have no experience in.
I'll bet I know more about the Women's "Wisdom" Circle and its predecessor, the Women's "Gifting" Circle than you do, K, partly because I've communicated with a number of women who were victimized by these rotten scams, and also because I've read material by women who were insiders in these circles, such as this informative article.
I've also done the math and determined that around 89% of all the women who join lose their money so the other 11% can profit from their gullibility. If you want to correct me on anything I say, whup out your facts, but if you're just gonna complain that an evil, inferior male is oppressing you by venturing an educated opinion--well, that says a lot about you, doesn't it?
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Do you do this to stir a hornets nest of beliefs that are not based in reality or experience?
K, I urge you to read my short article on the subject here, then if you think it's not based in reality, correct me in the comment thread.
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Have you or any of you ever spoken with a woman who has participated for any length of time in a community?
Yes. Several women have told me about being ripped off by these "circles". Are you clear on the fact that about 89% of participants lose their money, and that that's not what they were told when they were recruited, K? What part of "swindle" do you have trouble understanding? Have you been befuddled by the cynical New Age packaging?
And let's not muddy the waters by pretending this is a gender issue, K. Pyramid schemes rip off men and women alike, and the way they work is fundamentally identical whether it's the Women's "Wisdom" Circle, the Women's "Gifting" Circle, the Circle of Friends, the Airplane Game, etc. Math has no gender.
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Do adult Women get to CHOOSE what they do with their gifts and talents?
Sure, up to the point where they CHOOSE to victimize others. I'll bet if this were men swindling women you'd be all over it, wouldn't you?
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Did you all reach out to women specifically when the stocks crashed and support them in choosing where they put their "money"?
Did you reach out to women when the MLM they got involved with collapsed or they "couldn't do it"?
Did you reach out to the women you love so much and support them when they were lossing their homes because of corrupti-n with the banking syst.?
I'm reaching out to women by trying to stop scams that rip them off. There's nothing in it for me; I'm not vulnerable to these scams, because I've educated myself about them. I do it for women because I care about people. My crusade against these scams is my way of, as you say, "reaching out to women".
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Each one of you break the law every week if not every day....should we start turning each other in for going thru a stop sign?
Do you really mean to equate going through a stop sign with ripping people off for thousands of dollars each? REALLY?
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Many years ago I participated in a GIFTING community............and it was truly amazing.
Have any of you ever given a large gift completely unconditionally? Really?
Yes I have. And I didn't do it the way they do it in these "gifting" circles--sending a bunch of money to someone 3 levels up the pyramid, someone you may not even know, and who probably has more money than you anyway. You know as well as I do that most who join are expecting to get a profit from their investment, that they have been misled to believe that they will profit, and that "gifting" is the pretense. You wanna gift someone? Find someone in the community who needs it most and just give it to them. Who needs a "gifting circle" for that? Instead you gave your money to some rich scammer at the top of the pyramid who laughed all the way to the bank. How wonderfully enlightened of you.
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We are adults and we all get to CHOOSE.
Sure, but if we're choosing on the basis of lies and false promises, we're being swindled. Where's your empathy for the victims, K?
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I am deeply grateful for the experience I had in the past, regardless if I did not receive any gifts via that venue, guess life is like that....we don't always get to control what comes to us.....HOW REFRESHING:heart:
Do you realize that around 9 out of 10 women who participated in the scam with you lost their money, K? Do you imagine that they were all as sanguine about it as you seem to be? Do you give a damn about their loss, their suffering? Your lack of empathy is palpable.
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LETS stop the witch hunt!
Characterizing an attempt to stop swindles that are victimizing our sisters as a "witch hunt" is a really twisted perspective. Again, where is your empathy?
Oh, but don't listen to me. I'm merely a man; I couldn't have anything useful to say.
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
One more thing, K: if you had such a marvelous experience the first time, then surely you must have joined the subsequent "circles", such as the recent Women's "Wisdom" Circle. If you didn't, why didn't you? And if you did, did you make money this time, or lose it?
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
Shandi, you are such a wise Woman and I truly enjoy reading your posts, you have "gifting" nailed as to the right opportunity to provide benefits for all involved and you have certainly learned from your experiences.....and isn't that what life is all about. Yes, we make mistakes, but hopefully learn from them and in turn help others along the way, even if it's a little advice or an emotional lift, doesn't always have to be about money.
There are alot of people who have their hand out and expect others to provide money at the least little thing. Wouldn't it feel better to know that they provided for themselves? How empowering is that! Self-responsibility is pretty awesome!
Empowerment comes to people who learn to do for themselves, without having to rely on someone else. How satisfying it is to take care of oneself first and foremost without burdening someone else. Then, we often find that we are able to help others even more when our needs are met and the giving is truly without expectations.
I often wonder why people spend so much time standing around with their hand out, that takes time and energy to spend the day outside in the weather, on a street corner or any public place where they can arouse sympathy, when maybe they could be a bit more creative and use their time and energy to make do for themselves.
I was quoted as a child "If you want a helping hand, just look at the end of your own arm". It has worked for me my whole life and I have never had to ask anyone for anything, but having taken care of myself, have found many ways to give that didn't always involve money.
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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:
Since men don't participate in these groups, ...
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
Pickles,
Thank you for your acknowledgement. I wish I wise enough not to keep learning these recent lessons, which took me down to a dark place, only 3 months ago. I won't repeat that story, and I'm happy to report, I'm back to my energetic, loving self, but alas with much less trust. I'm reading a helpful book on "Lie Spotters". :thumbsup:
I've always been independent, out of necessity. And I've found that some men really don't like that, even to the point of getting angry if I didn't wait for him to open the door for me. But that same "gentleman" (as he called himself) allowed me to support him, without "giving"much in the way of providing the kinds of help I actually asked for, and needed. He was full of excuses and blame, as to why he couldn't, or wouldn't do certain things. Now that he's gone, I find myself doing all the things he said couldn't be done.
But I want to share a story with you, about a very humbling experience for me, the independent person who prided herself on never having to ask for help.
Before moving to Marin County from Hawaii in1993, I had posted a classified ad, hoping to be able to trade my business/marketing skills in exchange for a "landing pad". I was trying to create a bridge from there to here, since I had no connections, and no job waiting. I'd made a great connection with a business man and his wife, who had a spare room. He taught women's wrestling, and needed promotion for his classes. I felt excited and thankful for this.
However, 2 days before I got on the plane, he called and said that his daughter wanted to move back home, so the room was no longer available. I was more than a little disappointed. Fortunately I'd made another connection with a man who was a carpenter, and said he had a home he could share with me. But, when he greeted me on arrival, he announced that his house had "burned down", and all he had was his truck, tools, and a few belongings. He did offer to put me up in the same motel room he was staying in.....
So, here I was in a new environment, looking to share a room with a stranger, and only a few hundred dollars, in addition to the expectation that my friends in Hawaii would come through with the $2,000. they owed me for taking over the lease on the rental I'd had. Well, after about a week, I got a letter saying that they couldn't pay me now, maybe in a few months. Not much I could do, but accept my reality.
The man seemed nice enough, and left me to go to work every day. I scanned the classifeds looking for work, but I was at a disadvantage because I had no computer skills. In my business I was a consultant, and my partner did the computer work. The man wasn't putting pressure on me, and at times it seemed that he didn't want me to find a job, delaying me when I needed to leave for interviews. I couldn't figure this out, since he was paying for the motel and food, with a little contribution from me, in addition to cooking and laundry.
I was feeling desperate for my independence, and didn't feel comfortable with the arrangement. Not having a source of income, I could relate to the many women who are economically dependent on someone else. I found a place close by (Ritter House) that gave a bag of groceries, and clothing. I found myself in a line of people who were dirty and disheveled. Only a few weeks prior, I had been a respected businesswoman, living in Paradise. I broke down in tears at the realization that I was at the mercy of this charitable organization, with this line of people I had nothing in common with, except being dependent. My survival depended on me asking for help. This was a crack in my belief that I would never need to ask for help.
We really don't know what may come to pass in our lives that may put us in a dependent situation. If we're very wealthy or have wealth in generous family, we may not ever have to ask. But other things can happen, besides a loss of money. I also lost my health, and my ability to work followed my inability to walk. I had to rely on pain meds to get through the day, and those medications stole my ability to think clearly. I felt as though I was under a heavy blanket of pain with a mind made of cotton. A couple of friends said "Why don't you do this, or that?" They couldn't relate because they hadn't been there.
I had led a very healthy life up until this happened, but after I experienced the physical loss of ability, the mental fuzziness, and the emotional pain involved in dumpster diving, I had a new found compassion that wasn't possible previously. Yes, I've always cared about people, and tried to relieve their pain. But never again would I be in judgement about someone begging for their daily bread to sustain themselves and their children. Sometimes, there is no other way. You might want to risk talking to a beggar to ask about their story. There are very talented and skilled people living on the street. Although I was homeless for a year, fortunately I didn't end up on the street, but I could have. I found house sitting positions, even though no one knew me. I've been told that I have an "honest" face, which I'm thankful for. :monalisa:
We don't know the details of other's lives, or the humiliation of having to beg. Consider the women who expect to be taken care of by men. They don't need to beg, but they're hardly independent, except for the ability to go from one man to the next. This isn't out of necessity, but of choice. Just something to consider....
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Posted in reply to the post by Pickles:
Shandi, you are such a wise Woman and I truly enjoy reading your posts, you have "gifting" nailed as to the right opportunity to provide benefits for all involved and you have certainly learned from your experiences.....and isn't that what life is all about. Yes, we make mistakes, but hopefully learn from them and in turn help others along the way, even if it's a little advice or an emotional lift, doesn't always have to be about money.
There are alot of people who have their hand out and expect others to provide money at the least little thing. Wouldn't it feel better to know that they provided for themselves? How empowering is that! Self-responsibility is pretty awesome!
Empowerment comes to people who learn to do for themselves, without having to rely on someone else. How satisfying it is to take care of oneself first and foremost without burdening someone else. Then, we often find that we are able to help others even more when our needs are met and the giving is truly without expectations.
I often wonder why people spend so much time standing around with their hand out, that takes time and energy to spend the day outside in the weather, on a street corner or any public place where they can arouse sympathy, when maybe they could be a bit more creative and use their time and energy to make do for themselves.
I was quoted as a child "If you want a helping hand, just look at the end of your own arm". It has worked for me my whole life and I have never had to ask anyone for anything, but having taken care of myself, have found many ways to give that didn't always involve money.
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
I want to echo what you said. Its difficult to hear the judgments from people. And they happen no matter what side of the political spectrum you are on. Of course people want to provide for themselves! But the reality is that things happen. You slide down that slope into homelessness and deprivation with very little ability to get out easily. Asking for help has been the hardest thing for me to do and I have been forced to do it. Its a humbling experience and you realize the amount of trauma that causes. I have had a lot of people say to me "well why don't you just..." without realizing the reality of what its like to live in my shoes.
Being poor means not having a stable place to live. Maybe living someplace without a kitchen. Or if you are "lucky" you have access to a shelter.
It's trying to figure out how much food you can buy with so little. Do you know what it is like to go to the food bank and be given cans of food that you can't eat because you don't have a can opener? Or no place to cook it?
Do I have enough to get gas to get to the store and back? Or to a job interview? Or to a job if I am lucky enough to find one?
Or maybe you don't even have a car and have to rely on buses that can take all day to get to Santa Rosa, depending on where you live.
Do you know how much it actually costs to do laundry? When you don't even have enough for food?
Do you know what it is like to be required to apply for jobs online when you can only access a computer at the library for an hour? If you are lucky?
Did you know that the "handouts" that are available for those in need aren't nearly enough to pay rent? Or feed yourself and your kids?
Do you know what it is like to be disabled and not have enough for medical care and be REQUIRED to be under care just to apply for disability? Or to be denied or lied to by those who are supposed to help?
"Why don't you take these herbs or try this treatment?" Because i can't afford it.
Do you know how much it costs to do business when you are unable to have a checking account? Each time you pay a bill it costs to get a money order.
Do you know how much it costs to cash a check when you don't have a checking account?
Do you know what its like to need food and not be able to go to a food bank because you can't eat the food? I have significant food intolerances and I can't eat mcuh of the food available.
Do you know how much "low income" housing actually costs in this county?
There is a certain amount of denial that happens when we think of the poor. Not wanting to see what that is like. Because if we really looked at what it was like, we would have to do something about it.
Some of the most generous people I know are the ones who have the least. They give their time, their energy, maybe money if they have it. We are here for each other. Our culture seems to see individualism as the end game. We should rely on ourselves alone. But that isn't what human beings are supposed to do. We support each other. We help each other. We make sure that EVERYONE gets their needs met, to the best of their and our abilities. Not just the ones who can afford it.
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." ~ Albert Einstein
Jessica
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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:
We don't know the details of other's lives, or the humiliation of having to beg. Consider the women who expect to be taken care of by men. They don't need to beg, but they're hardly independent, except for the ability to go from one man to the next. This isn't out of necessity, but of choice. Just something to consider....
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
Jessica,
Thank you so much for sharing the potent details of the impotency in the lives of so many. Some of these things I've learned from the homeless people I've talked with. It's heartbreaking to try to survive each day in this constant state of stressful hopelessness. If each of us were to stop to connect with another being in this situation, we could make a difference if only in the life of the one we've met. It's risky for the heart to hear the pain, and undeniable sadness that so many face each day, without relief. A truly conscious person cannot walk away from this reality, without asking "how can I make a difference in this world that I've co-created?" Yes, I believe that everything we see is a reflection of ourselves, especially those parts we want to deny. If we don't look, maybe they will go away. If we don't listen, maybe they won't speak. If we don't give, maybe they won't need. If we have enough, maybe that's all that matters......
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Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe:
I want to echo what you said. Its difficult to hear the judgments from people....
Re: WO MANS Gifting Circles
Another thing to consider: the homeless have no way to vote. In order to register to vote you have to have a physical address. A PO box or a camp doesn't count. So they have little say in what happens in our government. In a very essential way they have no voice.
Jessica
