(content deleted by poster)
Printable View
(content deleted by poster)
It has always bothered me that some writers insist on being anonymous, and hide behind pseudonyms. I brought this up early in the life of Wacco, but it received little traction, so I dropped it. Now, however, with something as serious as introducing a ballot initiative, I think it incumbent that the writer or writers identify her or him self. What do others think? Helen Shane
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wescounty:
Hi there community.
Have any of you, your children, friends, neighbors, friends, acquaintances, etc., ever been harassed, threatened, and or bullied by a Sebastopol Police Officer?
If so, let us know in a response, or via email to [email protected].
A date of the perceived police harassment incident would be appreciated.
Also, we would appreciate any and all support to this Initiative, including input, volunteer time, etc.
We are planning the submission of a Ballot Initiative entitled
"The Sebastopol Police Review Commission Act of 2014."
Helen, why do you care who the proponents are? Why aren't you more concerned with ending Police harassment, abuse, and dishonesty? :hmmm:
I care as well.
What you are asking for is for the police to be accountable for their actions.
Don't you think it's kind of ironic you refuse to be accountable for yours? :waccosun:
I'll allow you one more anonymous post.
After that you'll need to publish your name (which I will validate) to continue to comment here.
Barry
Moderator
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wescounty:
I care for the same reason that I care about the Citizens United issue. I think we should always know who are the people to whom we give our trust and sometimes, financial support. The only reason I can think of to withhold one's name is fear of retaliation or derision. Disclosure is important.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wescounty:
(content deleted by poster)
"wescounty", you're setting up a false dichotomy here. It's not an either/or choice; one can care about the police issues you cite as well as caring about who's posting what, so as, for example, to be aware of "sockpuppets", "meatpuppets", "astroturfers", etc.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wescounty:
I understand that Barry has (wisely, I think) a policy of requiring Wacco members to divulge their real names when joining. but I have seen a number of "real" names in Wacco members' profiles that are clearly fake (such as yours). I would support Barry in cracking down on this. What's your real name, wescounty?
I crack down when a posting is controversial. Wescounty choose not to offer his or her real name. I have banned him/her until it is provided.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:
Here's a slightly different case. Someone I know personally sent me a message privately on this topic and allowed me to post it without their name. (S)he won't be engaging further anonymously. Here's the message:
======
I happened to see your comment here, and thought to send a private message ( because I don't post publicly any more) that for this particular issue, the proponent has a very good reason to remain anonymous.
Specifically, someone organizing a political change like this, is very likely to be profiled and harassed in Sebastopol by the local PD, or certain officers. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but the incidents of folks getting pulled over for ANYTHING at all is soaring in Sebastopol, especially at night, to the point alot of folks are starting to not want to drive into town at night.
This situation is repeating in lots of other so called progressive localities also. I was just up in Willits, and the locals there said it is getting insane to be driving or even walking minding your own business there, without the local PD harassing you for something. This is called the militarization of our police departments, and is happening before our eyes.
Follow the news, and talk to the locals. It is not about DUI or making the town safe, this is law enforcement out of control and over-reacting. The real dangerous part of this, is that organizing and speaking up for police review or oversite can make you a target for extra hassles. It is called creeping totalitarianism. Will I actively post this on the boards?
No, I have decided it is not worth engaging in this, when to call out real reform or populist resistance, is to paint a target on yourself, from local thugs to the NSA. It would be wonderful if enough citizens would speak up strongly on this issue, but if super progressive, green party run Sebastopol, has a police department acting as they are, with no questioning or being put in there place from our local leaders, then I see little reason for hope to halt our progression to full police state.
This is the ultimate dilemma for you on Wacco, as there is very much a good reason to allow for anonymous posting for radical and populist information organizing, otherwise, nothing really will be said that might "upset the authorities".
If this is food for thought, then post it on Wacco, but without any reference to my name please.
In truth, V
these are legitimate fears. i hold my own fingers and tongue to preserve access for volunteering in the county criminal justice world. derision of those questioning police process is present in your very own post. comparing this to citizens united is bs. corporate $ is solidly behind the thin blue line. whiselblowers pay bigtime, everybody aware knows this and most choose not to pay the price because they want a life...
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Helen Shane:
I agree that it's plausible that someone publicly supporting police review could be subject to harassment by the police. Having said that, I don't have the impression that anyone driving properly and within the speed limit in Sebastopol has much chance of being pulled over. I've driven to/through Sebastopol regularly for about 30 years now, and lived in Sebastopol for several of those years, and I can't remember being pulled over even once in all that time. Nor do I notice an unusual number of people being pulled over there. I can't help but wonder if those who perceive a police problem in Sebastopol are perhaps in the habit of speeding, driving a bit erratically, or...? Having said that, I also acknowledge that my impressions are anecdotal and may not be a very accurate representation of reality. I hope everyone on all sides of this issue can be open-minded, and that some actual statistics can be brought to bear on the issue (i.e., number of pull-overs or tickets per capita compared to other towns, etc.). Do these statistics already exist?
Or not being a middle-aged, paunchy white guy...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:
I've been pulled over twice for no reason other than having a motorcycle and a beard. Get a little older, get rid of the motorcycle, don't get pulled over now. No, I wouldn't want to be a rasta-looking fella driving through Whitesville...um I a mean Sebastopol.
Law of Attraction believers might say "It was your vibration..." If you were on a Harley, it must have been your "vibration"! :wink2:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by spam1:
Seriously, Dixon, in the 30 years you've been driving around here, haven't you ever heard that the Sebastopol police are notorious for their policies about this? It seems like common knowledge.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:
I have heard that if you're speeding in Sebastopol you're pretty likely to get a ticket. Seems reasonable to me.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:
Your point is well-taken, spam1. Having hitchhiked all over the country, including the deep South, with long hair and a beard in the 70s, I have some experiential basis for agreeing with your basic point.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by spam1:
I would still like to see some actual numbers rather than subjective impressions (my own included) re: number of pull-overs/tickets per capita in Sebastopol as compared to other towns. I wonder if such info is available from the police. or...?
Don't forget about the notorious Petaluma cops, and the notorious CHP in unincorporated west county. Believe you me, they are all in it for the money under cover of "public safety".Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:
Yeah, you don't have much chance of getting struck by lightning or having a flat tire either. But both do occur. Until you know how often and how many people have been pulled over and harassed by Sebastopol policemen you have no idea of what the odds or chance of it happening to you might actually be.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:
I've heard about lots of things that I've never actually experienced, so would it be wise for me to pass on or just believe information that I hear about? I'm sure Dixon has heard about the notorious police polices in Sebastopol and beyond, but he's responding from his personal experience. He may be one in thousands, but his experience is still valid.
I guess if you're driving in Sebastopol on a daily/nightly basis, the odds increase for you to get stopped. If most tickets are for speeding, then it might be worth getting a radar device. I've gotten one ticket for speeding in my 50 years of driving, but that doesn't mean I don't occasionally speed, I just don't make a habit of it. Mainly, because I really can't afford the ticket. And when I'm on the freeway, I use cruise control, so I don't have to be constantly watching the speedometer. I also don't drive in the car pool lane unless I have passengers. That's getting more and more expensive all the time.
It must be a real drag to go out to an event in Sebastopol or Santa Rosa, or even Cotati, and have a few drinks, and get pulled over when you feel o.k. and not really drunk. The police must have a field day on Friday/Saturday nights, because they know there will be "easy pickens".
Your best protection is to make sure you don't have a tail light or headlight out, to attract attention. Friends help friends check on these things. Otherwise how would we know, until we get stopped? Driving with expired registration or license is also risky.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:
How does knowing the odds help?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Ronaldo:
What reason did they give for pulling you over both times? And did you actually get ticketed? And for what? Did you fight it?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by spam1:
Indeed Dixon. Back in the day, with my long hair and beard, it seemed that EVERYONE was giving me a watchful eye. (or was that pot paranoia)
As I grew older and started keeping my hair short and had no beard, I seemed to attract no unwarranted attention.
At about 50 years of age, I let my hair and beard loose again, just for old times sake. WOW! Those same old watchful eyes were all watching me again! (no pot paranoia this time around)
When, due to spousal appeasement, I went back to short hair and a clean shave... WALLA! No more watchful eyes or unwarranted attention.
Things like long hair, type of vehicle, color of skin, etc. should not attract unwarranted attention, but in fact, they sometimes DO.
It must be a natural human instinct to give extra notice to things that appear different than the Norm and if they are watching you they are probably going to catch you doing something wrong at some point... unless you are very very careful.
I think that natural human instincts would be very hard to train out of someone.
That said, I WANT the people 'we have hired to protect us' to remove dangerous people from the roadways and society in general for that matter. That's their JOB! I want you ALL to be very afraid of DUI driving, because I use these roads too and I don't want you to kill me or anyone else.
We have rules of the road and speed limits for a reason. If you can't obey them, then please don't drive.
In regards to the original post, I have no problem with a Police Review Commission.
Tom
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:
These days I'd have difficulty defining "normal" appearance. Could anyone help me out here?
It's common for humans to be attracted to things that are out of their norm. When I first returned to SF after 13 years on the Big Island, I experienced a kind of "culture shock" seeing homeless people sleeping in doorways, when I attended an event. I had never seen that in Hawaii. We didn't have teen runaways, either. And houses were left unlocked. Sometimes keys were even left in cars! And a 7-11 was blocked from opening in Kona. There were no 24 hr. places to buy food. Seeing transexuals was common. Men were seen dancing in skirts.
Normal may be in the eye of the beholder. Think about the first time you saw something that you'd never seen before, and how it got your attention. (think rings in noses, lips, etc.) and how it doesn't now, because maybe you've adjusted to seeing it as "normal".
And we know that cop's are trained to spot things "out of the norm" in their environment. A cop's view...may be by necessity, .....very different than ours. Even the cops were different in Hawaii, (using their own unmarked cars), and a driver could stop traffic for a few minutes, to say "aloha" if he/she spotted a friend. No one even honked! That was normal..... I think they called it the "aloha spirit".
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:
(I wanted to respond to the initial post on The Sebastopol Police Review Commission Act of 2014 but it was deleted because the poster was hiding, in fear.)
It seems that the information available on police using body cameras have cut down on abuse and complaints by a large percentage. In some cities, as much as 60%. I hope to see more of this imposed on law officers.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Helen Shane:
I reached out to Chief Weaver for some statistics and got back the very informative message below. It does not compare Sebastopol to other towns, though.
As for my own 2-cents. I'm terrified to drive in Sebastopol, especially if I've had anything to drink. I think the enforcement is more stringent here then elsewhere, but that's hard to argue with for the reasons Chief Weaver references below.
I can't speak to whether they are profiling or otherwise, but I do know there are times when they put on a "full court press" (such as holiday weekend evenings) , when they aggressively stop anybody and everybody for the slightest reason. And as much as I don't like that, again it's hard to argue with.
Barry
From Sebastopol Police Chief Weaver:
The number of traffic stops made by the Sebastopol Police Department is as follows:
In 2013, we made 8,195 traffic stops. (That's about twenty-two per day. A typical officer made three or four traffic stops during their ten hour shift)
In 2012, we made 6,628 traffic stops. (That's a about eighteen per day. A typical officer made three traffic stops during their ten hour shift)
In 2011, we made 5,794 traffic stops. (That's about sixteen per day. A typical officer made between two and three traffic stops during their ten hour shift)
In 2010, we made 5,530 traffic stops. (That's about fifteen per day. A typical officer made between two and three traffic stops during their ten hour shift)
In 2009, we made 7,425 traffic stops. (That's about twenty per day. A typical officer made between three or four traffic stops during their ten hour shift)
In 2008, we made 6,003 traffic stops. (That's about sixteen per day. A typical officer made between two or three traffic stops during their ten hour shift)
In summary, over the last six years, we pull over an average of eighteen cars per day; about one every 90 minutes, and the average officer makes three traffic stops during their ten hour shift.
There are many factors that need to be considered when reviewing those numbers:
* Local traffic - the City of Sebastopol is bisected by two State Routes that carry tens of thousands of vehicle through town each day. In fact, the intersection of Sebastopol Avenue and Petaluma Avenue handles nearly 40,000 vehicle trips per day.
* Collision History - as has been noted in prior newspaper articles, the City of Sebastopol had an abnormally high number of injury traffic collisions, most probably due to the inordinate amount of traffic that flows through town compared with similar sized Cities. We had the second highest injury collision rate for the approximately 70 cities our size in the State of California.
* The public's priorities - as we've discussed before, the number one complaint I receive as Chief of Police is related to dangerous driving. Weekly, folks ask for increased enforcement due to speeding vehicles, vehicles that won't stop at stop signs, vehicles that won't stop for pedestrians, etc. The most recent complaint come in today at 3:59pm via e-mail. As Chief of Police, it's my duty to respond to the Community's requests and, in this community, the most frequent request I receive is for greater traffic enforcement.
* Alcohol-related businesses - the City of Sebastopol serves as the entertainment hub for the West County. As such we have many bars and other venues that serve alcohol. Those businesses generate DUI drivers and DUI drivers crash and kill people at a disproportionally high rate. Therefore, officers working during prime DUI hours focus a good portion of their time attempting to remove DUI drivers from the roadway. This involves stopping vehicles for observed traffic and equipment violations to address those violation as well as determine if the driver is impaired.
* Police Department staff - since 1986, the Sebastopol Police Department's staffing has generally been fourteen police officers. That is still the case; we currently have fourteen police officers. That includes both James Conner and me, who don't work patrol. So, really, our patrol force is twelve uniformed police officers, supplemented by reserve police officers one or two shifts per week. During times when our staff has been below fourteen our ability to focus on traffic enforcement is less. When we are at full staff, as we are now, we are better able to address traffic and equipment violations.
* The success of our effort - our primary duty is to save lives. Everything else is secondary. In Sebastopol, the greatest threat to life is unsafe driving and DUI drivers. I'm please to say that the last fatal collision was nearly five years ago, in May, 2009, when a DUI motorcyclist ran into a light pole on Sebastopol Avenue at Petaluma Avenue. Given the volume of traffic that travels through Sebastopol and the number complaints I receive about dangerous driving, it is amazing to me that it's been nearly five years since we've suffered a fatality. Other smaller Sonoma County cities have had fatal accident more recently.
* Warnings vs. Citations - the last time I reviewed the disposition of our traffic stops, 72% resulted in warnings. The remainder resulted in citations (moving violations and/or equipment violations) or arrests for DUI or other observed violations.
I hope this information is helpful.
Take care,
Jeffery Weaver, Sebastopol Chief of Police
It seems that these facts/statistics back up the actions of Sebastopol PD, though we may not like it. These actions may have saved the lives of people we know and love. That would give us a whole different perspective....if we knew that for sure. Since we don't, we can just imagine, and be thankful.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
lies, damn lies, and statistics. there are other stats available for those willing to google. weaver and his force compare unfavorably to other greater bay area towns, if you believe there is a increasing downside to increasing economic and racial profiling. wacco seems to be a place where weaver takes in feedback. why does he hide behind the moderator? send this one to him berry. i challenge weaver to a public debate about the spd. i hope to learn. and be understood.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Since that's probably NOT going to happen, please share with us here on Wacco what you see as wrong with what he has said here. Give us a link to these other statistics that you talk about.
Tom
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
the moderator pointed it out, there is no comparison to other towns, so weavers stats are isolated to just sebtown. one fact emerges, enforcement is going up. and weaver still throws out reasons for the numbers which involve comparison to other towns, knowing the comparison looks like speed trap ville. just google it. weaver himself told me he was proud the department writes more tickets than any other town its size in the bay area. yeah, he runs and hides when department policy is challenged. he will crow in private, or behind the moderator veil, but currently avoids public presentations, where he might face informed questions. so i just do the best i can.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:
Chief Weaver almost always attends the city council meetings. I suggest you, and anyone else having a problem with policing in Sebastopol, address the council during the public comment section at the start of every city council meeting.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: