Sebastopol Gestapo?

I recently (Friday, Aug. 23) had an encounter with one of Sebastopol's finest. I was at Aubergine, enjoying an adult beverage with some friends. A friend invited some of us to his house to play cards. He lives just up the street so I was going to walk to his house as I have done on previous occasions. I went out to my truck to retrieve my glasses and sweatshirt. I exited the building, walked through the covered outdoor patio area to the top of the stairs(approx. 35 feet), down the stairs to my truck at the base of the stairs. There were quite a few people near my truck; this is the area where many go to smoke and congregate. I decided to move my truck across the parking to avoid the inevitable trash and cigarette butts that are thrown in the bed of the truck. I backed out of the space I was in and before I began to move forward, a reserve Sebastopol police officer (officer David Andrews) approached the drivers side window. He said, you're not wearing your seatbealt. I responded that I was in a parking lot, I was moving my truck and that I was not going anywhere. He then stated that I had just walked through and disrupted an undercover investigation; that I had compromised an ongoing investigation. I asked him how I was supposed to be aware that an investigation was taking place. There were no uniformed officers present, no barricades, no crime scene tape and nobody asking me to exit via an alternate route. Things devolved from that point...he ended up arresting me for DUI.

Has anyone else experienced harassment and unreasonable actions at the hands of the Sebastopol PD, or had any interaction with reserve officer Andrews. Thanks for your input!

This board is full of accounts of Sebastopol police being over the top in their vehicle code enforcement. I presume that since you were arrested, you failed a field sobriety test, which presumably means you shouldn't have been behind the wheel at all. I am not judging, I just presume that the cop had probable cause.

I did not realize that the cops could arrest people if they were exclusively on private property. I fully understand your side of the situation. The load about disrupting an investigation seems to be BS, since you would have had no idea what is going on, and being a random actor in the undercover scenario would add, not detract from the scene. If the investigation was so important, why cause further distraction by having a uniformed officer walk into the scene. Seems fishy.

I personally try to avoid driving away from any downtown Sebastopol parking lot after dark unless I am stone-cold sober and I'm sure my car has no broken tail or headlights.

I've heard that DUI's can cost a person upward of $15,000 when all is said and done. I hope you avoid that kind of hassle, when you seemed to have been trying to get out of there by walking to your friend's house.

Good luck

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Posted in reply to the post by NoCal:

I recently (Friday, Aug. 23) had an encounter with one of Sebastopol's finest. I was at Aubergine, enjoying an adult beverage with some friends. A friend invited some of us to his house to play cards. He lives just up the street so I was going to walk to his house as I have done on previous occasions. I went out to my truck to retrieve my glasses and sweatshirt. I exited the building, walked through the covered outdoor patio area to the top of the stairs(approx. 35 feet), down the stairs to my truck at the base of the stairs.

There were quite a few people near my truck; this is the area where many go to smoke and congregate. I decided to move my truck across the parking to avoid the inevitable trash and cigarette butts that are thrown in the bed of the truck. I backed out of the space I was in and before I began to move forward, a reserve Sebastopol police officer (officer David Andrews) approached the drivers side window. He said, you're not wearing your seatbelt I responded that I was in a parking lot, I was moving my truck and that I was not going anywhere. He then stated that I had just walked through and disrupted an undercover investigation; that I had compromised an ongoing investigation. I asked him how I was supposed to be aware that an investigation was taking place. There were no uniformed officers present, no barricades, no crime scene tape and nobody asking me to exit via an alternate route. Things devolved from that point...he ended up arresting me for DUI.

Has anyone else experienced harassment and unreasonable actions at the hands of the Sebastopol PD, or had any interaction with reserve officer Andrews. Thanks for your input!

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I question the legality of arresting someone for a traffic violation on private property; that may help in court. However, my experience with the Sebastopol cops has been good: They brought one of the main Occupy organizers a plate of brownies for his birthday. I saw one speak politely with an immigrant. Better than SR's.

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Posted in reply to the post by NoCal:

I recently (Friday, Aug. 23) had an encounter with one of Sebastopol's finest.

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Sorry for your trouble. I guess being on private property is not a defense? I don't know the law on that, maybe someone else does.

Let this be a lesson to us all! Do not get behind the wheel for ANY reason after drinking ANY alcohol, or it could really cost a lot of $$ and be a big hassle... and Always put on the seat belt, even just to move a vehicle. Check to make sure that all lights and signals are working correctly once in awhile too. Also, obey all traffic signs and speed limits. Put that phone down too, they Love to get you for that one!

The police are trained to look for all of these violations and very rarely let any of them go without enforcing the law. Once they have you, they check for everything.
It's their job.

Tom

This is unbelievable, but I do believe you! It seems that there have been many stories on this board, of harassment by Sebastopol police. That's only one reason I'm glad I don't live there.

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

Let this be a lesson to us all! Do not get behind the wheel for ANY reason after drinking ANY alcohol, or it could really cost a lot of $$ and be a big hassle... and Always put on the seat belt, even just to move a vehicle. Check to make sure that all lights and signals are working correctly once in awhile too. Also, obey all traffic signs and speed limits. Put that phone down too, they Love to get you for that one!

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3 felonies a day...I've heard there are as many as 15,000 traffic infractions, and virtually every driver can be found to violate some at any time. So no, it will do no good to try to not do anything wrong..."dirty license plate light" etc,

Moral: if a cop wants to arrest you, they always can; never argue, never talk, just deal with it after.

I think it was the response that triggered his enforcement. Instead of apologizing and being done with it, you got defensive and tried to put the blame on others - regardless of who was really at fault. That just made the officer more likely to look you over and make sure not to miss anything.
I've seen way too many threads about the police and how they enforce the law. People saying things like: "I was tired, it was late at night, and I couldn't stay in my lane..." - and question why the officer stopped them.

The realist-satirist Chris Rock wrote a cynical, public service sketch video, "Be Polite." I post it knowing it will also be misunderstood; Barry might censor. It's not for everyone, but it's a comedy classic. An instructive point for all skin colors and classes whenever there might be at least a fighting chance for a good encounter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfkrw57VnAU

Incredibly stressful to interact with any police officer anywhere for any reason these days, whether you are a victim or an alleged, uninformed perpetrator. They hold incredible social power over you, and people of all classes are not taught how to interact with them and should be. Because you aren't going to change police officers. An officer may have just come out of an emotionally difficult interaction themselves, and all individuals wearing a badge are not as stoic as we might hope, unwittingly taking it out on the person who next appears. I have found that police basically hate poor people of all types, poor neighborhoods, or any "alternative ways," and some of these "types" can be set up to have a bad police encounter simply by being themselves b/c they don't behave recognizably "middle class" in any situation. An attitude is taken the wrong way, perhaps as confrontational. Doesn't matter what later happens in the courtroom -- those who sell their labor to others to earn a living especially don't want to be arrested or have a highly ignorant police report written up. So the whole thing is stressful.

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Posted in reply to the post by Imagery:

I think it was the response that triggered his enforcement. Instead of ...

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I personally think that we could easily reduce the number of police in Sebastopol. I'm more afraid of them than I am of driving in Oakland. Due to their numbers and budget, my perception is that they have to justify their existence, which they do by looking for any sort of legal infraction. If they worked in a community with true criminal issues, they wouldn't have time to engage in their petty tactics. I'd love it if their budget was reduced and the funds were redistributed to the library so it could re-open on Sundays.

My heart goes out to you. And, it shocks me that a "progressive" community like Sebastopol is not more aware of this situation and its implications. I wish someone, like an investigative journalist, would research, based on the crime rate of Sebastopol, the cost benefit of the Sebastopol police and their tactics. For example, I received a phone call many years ago from them telling me that my dog's registration was about to expire and, if I didn't take care of it in time, they would cite me. Seems rather police state-ish to me.

Further, if it weren't pathetic, it would be amusing that a police officer would inform a citizen of an under cover operation taking place as I can't imagine all of the dangerous cartel action happening at Aubergine.

I've never thought about whether we need to license dogs at all, or if it's just government overreach. Upon consideration, I assume dog licensing helps the police keep dog owners accountable for the actions of their dogs, so it'd be a way of protecting the public. That seems like a good thing.

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Posted in reply to the post by Cherrone1:

...I received a phone call many years ago from them telling me that my dog's registration was about to expire and, if I didn't take care of it in time, they would cite me. Seems rather police state-ish to me.

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When I started reading your quote above, Cherrone, I thought you were expressing appreciation for the Police Department's taking time to call you and give you warning about the impending expiration of your dog license. When I realized you were actually complaining about that, your reaction struck me as a bit strange. Would you prefer that they not warn you and just cite you when it expires instead?

On the contrary, rather than censor this, I recommend you watch the Chris Rock video below! Funny and useful! I highly recommend that you be very cooperative with any officer that approaches you no matter what. I also recommend making note of their badge number and possibly even doing a surreptitious audio recording of the interaction for possible future use. :waccosun:

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Posted in reply to the post by dzerach:

The realist-satirist Chris Rock wrote a cynical, public service sketch video, "Be Polite." I post it knowing it will also be misunderstood; Barry might censor. It's not for everyone, but it's a comedy classic. An instructive point for all skin colors and classes whenever there might be at least a fighting chance for a good encounter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfkrw57VnAU

Incredibly stressful to interact with any police officer anywhere for any reason these days, whether you are a victim or an alleged, uninformed perpetrator. They hold incredible social power over you, and people of all classes are not taught how to interact with them and should be. Because you aren't going to change police officers.

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Posted in reply to the post by Moon:

I question the legality of arresting someone for a traffic violation on private property; that may help in court. However, my experience with the Sebastopol cops has been good: They brought one of the main Occupy organizers a plate of brownies for his birthday. I saw one speak politely with an immigrant. Better than SR's.

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You might want to read up on the laws concerning private property with public access. That would include parking lots in malls, businesses, lodging facilities, restaurants, hospitals, et al. Unless posted differently, they are treated as public property as far as vehicle code enforcement goes...or why not have drag races in the Safeway or CVS parking lots?

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Posted in reply to the post by Cherrone1:

I personally think that we could easily reduce the number of police in Sebastopol. I'm more afraid of them than I am of driving in Oakland.

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Perhaps you'd be happier with absolutely no law enforcement in this city. LOL - Efren has a relative who'd like to disobey the law and not be held responsible, and you're all for that. He has NO IDEA what the Gestapo was, or what they did - a brief note in a history class years and years ago...if the Gestapo were what our officers ascribe to be, he'd be dead, not posting his displeasure on a public forum somewhere.

As for Oakland, that's an interesting statement. Considering that they're 4th in the NATION in murders, with the vast majority of them unsolved...
...perhaps you'd like to share your reasoning. Or are you another relative of Efren (or shill of the OP) just wanting to support his disobeying the law and not taking responsibility for his actions?

Just read an article in the PD about a man in N. Carolina who wrecked his car and walked a half-mile to the nearest house to get help; when he banged on the door of the house, the woman called 911, and the police came and shot him 10 times, killing him......

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Posted in reply to the post by Imagery:

Perhaps you'd be happier with absolutely no law enforcement in this city. LOL - Efren has a relative who'd like to disobey the law and not be held responsible, and you're all for that. He has NO IDEA what the Gestapo was, or what they did - a brief note in a history class years and years ago...if the Gestapo were what our officers ascribe to be, he'd be dead, not posting his displeasure on a public forum somewhere.

As for Oakland, that's an interesting statement. Considering that they're 4th in the NATION in murders, with the vast majority of them unsolved...
...perhaps you'd like to share your reasoning. Or are you another relative of Efren (or shill of the OP) just wanting to support his disobeying the law and not taking responsibility for his actions?

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And I hope that all the posters who complain about the police watching them leave Hopmonk at night also keep in mind the public good.

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Posted in reply to the post by yann123:

Reply to: MSKSLR-

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

On the contrary, rather than censor this, I recommend you watch the Chris Rock video below! Funny and useful! I highly recommend that you be very cooperative with any officer that approaches you no matter what. I also recommend making note of their badge number and possibly even doing a surreptitious audio recording of the interaction for possible future use. :waccosun:

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This is simple wisdom at it's best, and is an attempt to balance the responsibility. This should be shown to 16+ teens, as a prerequisite for getting a driver's license. This would be a step up in driver's ed. This brief video by Chris Rock could make a difference.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

Just read an article in the PD about a man in N. Carolina who wrecked his car and walked a half-mile to the nearest house to get help; when he banged on the door of the house, the woman called 911, and the police came and shot him 10 times, killing him......

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FEAR is the REAL KILLER! FEAR of the UNKNOWN! FEAR of OTHERS! FEAR for SELF!

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Posted in reply to the post by NoCal:

Has anyone else experienced harassment and unreasonable actions at the hands of the Sebastopol PD, or had any interaction with reserve officer Andrews. Thanks for your input!

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I have recently had two disturbing interactions w/ Sonoma law authorities and I can say that something strange is going on with the cops. Both instances were very strange. In the first instance I was pulling into the parking lot at the Exchange Bank in S-town when a boy scout officer pulled behind me, got out and started the conversation by asking me if I had been drinking??? It was 11:OO AM on a Tuesday!! He proceeded to tell me he stopped me b/c I wasn't wearing my seatbelt. I was still sitting in the car w/ my seat belt ON! He's tone was accusatory and rude. He asked to see my licence, went back into his car w/ it. When he returned he just handed me my license and walked away. His tone and attitude was very rude and hostile for NO REASON, none. I was not cited, he did not offer any other reason for stopping me, other than my seat belt, which was in proper use. This kid was in a BOY SCOUT! wasn't even a cop! Stopped me for no reason and then spoke to me a rude manner.

The second incident was out at the Kortum Trail. I went out to the beach with a disabled friend and my three dogs. Getting the dogs out of the car, leashed, and on the trail, I missed the first trail sign and walked a short way up the trail at Shell beach. When I got to the second section of trail I saw the second sign that says no dogs on the trail. Realizing I had erred I headed back to my car immediately. As I was walking back to my car I see a white Ranger truck pull into the lot and drive right up to my car, parked in the disabled spot. The officer got out of her truck walked over to my car, pulled open the back door and started rifling through the stuff on the back seat!! She closed the door, looked around and came pounding up the path. We began to apologize for not seeing the first sign and explain that we returned to our car as soon as we saw the second sign. This girl told me to "shut up" and listen to what she had to say unless I wanted to be cited immediately. It was abrupt, rude and again with the hostile, threatening tone. She gave us good information, did not cite us, but was extremely rude in her tone and manner. We were insulted and frightened. She accused us of being reprimanded the day before. I would have preferred the citation to the rudeness. I had clearly made an err. However, at no time did myself or my friend give her any attitude or lip. We were faultlessly polite. There was no reason for her to be so extremely rude or take any kind of tone with us. AND what's with going through our car when we were not present????

So, YES, based on my most recent interactions with law enforcement I can say that I felt completely disrespected and more than a little threatened. In the second incident, my friend and I each felt as if the young officer was trying to provoke a larger incident. After these run ins I'm more determined than ever to avoid ANY interaction with law enforcement. I will NOT be calling them first for any kind of assistance and come voting time when the cops want more funds, and they ALWAYS want more money, I will be voting NO, NO, and NO! b/c in Sonoma there is no more 'serve and protect', it's become 'accuse and get'.

We had two weird experiences with Graton cops recently. The first time we were pulled over for no reason other than that we were pulling out across from the Underwood on a weekend night in a very old beat-up pickup. The cop shined his flashlight all over everything in the truck, asked what we'd been doing, etc. - finally let us go. Harassment, but we were polite. The second experience was a cop tailgating our same ugly truck from Graton toward Sebastopol. When we turned off onto a side road, he stopped us for avoiding an officer! (well; yes; we were, but...). Again, we were polite, no citation, but.. Both times felt like harassment. Still do.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

FEAR is the REAL KILLER! FEAR of the UNKNOWN! FEAR of OTHERS! FEAR for SELF!

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as Muad'Dib had to come to understand...


sorry, that reference always occurs to me when I see a similar phrasing.