View Full Version : Nobody deserves to die in the desert regardless of their immigration status!!!
lagallinaazul
07-13-2006, 07:11 PM
People are dying in the borderlands because they are being forced by immigration to cross farther and farther into isolated parts of the desert.
The temperatures by day exceed 100 degrees and the ground often 30 degrees hotter. People get lost, are abandoned, or injured,
and die.
No one should be dying in the desert.
Please read more about what one coalition/organization is doing to stop the deaths:
www.nomoredeaths.org (https://www.nomoredeaths.org/)
www.nomasmuertes.org (https://www.nomasmuertes.org)
You can help by learning and understanding:
a) No human is illegal and using appropriate terminology such as undocumented or refugee. By using the term illegal you make the person less human. You are able to distance yourself from the fact that people are suffering.
b) People are fleeing Mexico because they are making less than $10/day! That's less than what most people in the US make per hour. People are looking for quality of life. That is why they are coming to the US.
c) Remember how and why white people came to this country? Again, quality of life. That's us. Our ancestors. Our great great grandparents.
d) Imagine if it were the other way around. What if you were making $9/day (family or no family) and across the border in Mexico folks were making $90/day plus!
Please have mercy. And remember what you learned in kindergarten (or were supposed to have learned)...
share
a) No human is illegal and using appropriate terminology such as undocumented or refugee. By using the term illegal you make the person less human. You are able to distance yourself from the fact that people are suffering.
Okay, send a whole bunch of people, or go to Mexico yourself illegally...And try and convince the gov't that you are not 'illegal'...That you are simply a person who needs help!...GOOD LUCK!!....
b) People are fleeing Mexico because they are making less than $10/day! That's less than what most people in the US make per hour. People are looking for quality of life. That is why they are coming to the US.
Yeah, Mexico needs to start sharing a heck of a lot more and take care of their own...
c) Remember how and why white people came to this country? Again, quality of life. That's us. Our ancestors. Our great great grandparents.
I agree on the quality of life...And it's goin' downhill...We are already overpopulated in CA. and much of the Southwest...It's about the water....If we want quality of life, and stop stressing out the ecosystems, then we need to stop building and not allow any more overpopulation...Simple as that...
d) Imagine if it were the other way around. What if you were making $9/day (family or no family) and across the border in Mexico folks were making $90/day plus!
It sure wouldn't mean that I was owed a living, or a citizenship by the Mexican gov't. Especially, after I travelled into their country illegally...
Please have mercy.
Sadly, we are seeing these days that where there is so much hate and fear, there is precious little compassion, or mercy.
This is the U.S. in the 21st century.
ThePhiant
06-30-2007, 02:33 PM
I'll be darned,
how have we turned into these heartless people all of a sudden????
we killed and/or starved a bunch of Americans Indians
did the same or worse with a bunch of imported or homebred slaves
then we exploited a bunch of chinese immigrants and anybody else who showed up ignorant or Irish
we confiscated Japanese property while we interned them in concentration camps
blacklisted and ruined communist sympathizers' lives
right now we are trying to take care of a bunch of Arabs
so what're you'll so upset about a few Mexicans??
these are some good American values
it made this country what it is
Sadly, we are seeing these days that where there is so much hate and fear, there is precious little compassion, or mercy.
This is the U.S. in the 21st century.
Yes. It's important to 'share'...But, who are you asking to share?...It's mostly the very 'underpriviledged' here in the States that need services - those are the ones who get hit hard to 'share' those much needed services...while the uber rich don't have too...
I think it's time people demand those like the fat cat billionaire, Carlos Slim in Mexico who just knocked Bill Gates off the No.1 top spot on Forbes, do some serious sharing...
Mexico loves to send their poor here because they don't want to deal with them in their own country...I just happen to think that the U.S. shouldn't be their escape valve...And that everyone should come here legally...
And I don't think of millions of illegal people as being only a 'few'...
Who is being 'hateful' or 'heartless'?...
ThePhiant
07-17-2007, 12:00 PM
Mexico loves to send their poor here because they don't want to deal with them in their own country...I just happen to think that the U.S. shouldn't be their escape valve...are you saying the "coyotes" are actually Mexican government Agents helping to find work for the poor??????????????????
And that everyone should come here legally... USA doesn't allow Mexicans to cross the border without them having bankaccounts
And I don't think of millions of illegal people as being only a 'few'...less than 1%, that is a few especially since most Mexicans still consider CA,TX,AZ,NM, CO as part of their heritage
the names of the states are still Hispanic...............
Who is being 'hateful' or 'heartless'?..you
Phiant...
I don't think the U.S. should let anyone in illegally...no matter where they come from...
And I find it interesting that since I think Mexico and the U.S. should change policies, create economic justice for poorer folk so they don't have to leave their countries to find work...And especially empower women in their own countries, create better family planning, education etc...
You find that as being 'hatefull and heartless'....Strange...
ThePhiant
07-30-2007, 08:14 AM
Dear lynn,
I suggest you go travel and LIVE in a different country, you might find out that there are people all over the world, just like us.
In my mind someone who literally risks his life and limbs to provide for his family is a HERO not a criminal. do you have any idea or compassion for what it is like to leave your family and home behind just to be treated like dirt, sleep 4 to a room, being ripped off at every turn but still putting in a honest day of work???
If you feel so inclined to empower women, why don't you hire a Mexicana to clean your house, and pay her $25 an hour, and then you can show her by example how to be a better person in this global economy
Borders are artificially created barriers to control and enslave people, it only empowers the rich.
people aren't illegal, laws are
Phiant...
I don't think the U.S. should let anyone in illegally...no matter where they come from...
And I find it interesting that since I think Mexico and the U.S. should change policies, create economic justice for poorer folk so they don't have to leave their countries to find work...And especially empower women in their own countries, create better family planning, education etc...
You find that as being 'hatefull and heartless'....Strange...
AquaGyrl
08-03-2007, 08:27 PM
Touche! ThePhiant...I'd rather (and I have) pay an immigrant $25.00/hr. cash to clean my home or do my yard work rather than pay an 'agency' that hires illegal immigrants 40.00+ to do the work for me.. Put it right in the individuals pocket and stop the enslavement! My uncle is a Lieutant in the Violant Crimes unit in Arizona and he told me that, by far, the largest and most repetitive crimes he sees involve Mexican slavery rackets. Specifically, American's enslaving Mexicans and Mexican's enslaving Mexicans. He went into detail about the slavery raids he's whitnessed and, actually, it was appalling. There is NO EXCUSE for abusing or depriving anyone of having a decent life and earning their living for an honest reason. NO EXCUSE!
Dear lynn,
I suggest you go travel and LIVE in a different country, you might find out that there are people all over the world, just like us.
In my mind someone who literally risks his life and limbs to provide for his family is a HERO not a criminal. do you have any idea or compassion for what it is like to leave your family and home behind just to be treated like dirt, sleep 4 to a room, being ripped off at every turn but still putting in a honest day of work???
If you feel so inclined to empower women, why don't you hire a Mexicana to clean your house, and pay her $25 an hour, and then you can show her by example how to be a better person in this global economy
Borders are artificially created barriers to control and enslave people, it only empowers the rich.
people aren't illegal, laws are
AquaGyrl
08-03-2007, 09:29 PM
Hey, Lynn... thinking about our 'immigrant ancestors' many of whom entered the country via Ellis Island? Their ONLY criteria upon entering the country was that they be able to support themselves/their families. That was it. That was all. And that's what many 'illegal' immigrants are trying to do.
If you want to stop overpopulation then put a nationwide moratorium (no matter the parents country of origin) on the number of kids a family can have. Get the Pope, the Republicans, and the far right to stop preaching abstinence & sexual ignorance as a 'cure' for reproduction. Put sex ed back in the schools (or even more than basic sex ed!) My paternal grandmother - born in the U.S. from parents born in the U.S. - was one of 16 children. 16. My paternal grandfather, born in the U.S. of parents born in the U.S. was one of 14 - Both my grandparents were both white - not Mexican.
Most Mexican families DO take care of their own - they have a MUCH better system of extended-family care than most Americans have.
In addition, who are the greatest 'abusers' of American systems? - The Mexicans or other immigrants? I don't think so. American's have greater propensity and FAR MORE lea-way to abuse the system thanks to their 'status' as U.S. citizens.
Really, Lynn, Get educated. I mean, maybe you should look at ALL sides & consider ALL points of view before you take a stance. That way you can argue intelligibly.
You can talk all you want about immigrants abusing
a) No human is illegal and using appropriate terminology such as undocumented or refugee. By using the term illegal you make the person less human. You are able to distance yourself from the fact that people are suffering.
Okay, send a whole bunch of people, or go to Mexico yourself illegally...And try and convince the gov't that you are not 'illegal'...That you are simply a person who needs help!...GOOD LUCK!!....
b) People are fleeing Mexico because they are making less than $10/day! That's less than what most people in the US make per hour. People are looking for quality of life. That is why they are coming to the US.
Yeah, Mexico needs to start sharing a heck of a lot more and take care of their own...
c) Remember how and why white people came to this country? Again, quality of life. That's us. Our ancestors. Our great great grandparents.
I agree on the quality of life...And it's goin' downhill...We are already overpopulated in CA. and much of the Southwest...It's about the water....If we want quality of life, and stop stressing out the ecosystems, then we need to stop building and not allow any more overpopulation...Simple as that...
d) Imagine if it were the other way around. What if you were making $9/day (family or no family) and across the border in Mexico folks were making $90/day plus!
It sure wouldn't mean that I was owed a living, or a citizenship by the Mexican gov't. Especially, after I travelled into their country illegally...
"Mad" Miles
08-03-2007, 10:14 PM
Oye,
All the statistics show that when levels of income rise, people stop having lots of kids. There's even a perceived crisis in Europe and "other" parts that the white, bourgeoisie is having trouble replacing themselves because they opt out of having kids.
So, if your worry is overpopulation, why not promote an economic arrangement where everyone becomes wealthy enough to think there are better things to do than have more than 1.5 children per couple? If such a state was acheived, the Malthusian nightmare would be elimanated for all time!
How would we do that? You might wonder. Well.... I've always said that until all necessary labor that no one wanted to do was done by machines, the human race would never be free.
And for all you anti-techno Luddites out there. I feel your pain, but "ya cain't stop Pro-Grass" so tough noogies!!
(Actually it's a much more interesting debate. But I'm done for the moment, except for the appended P.S. and P.S.S....)
"Mad" Miles
P.S. As for a waccobb.net dating service. How many people have hooked up via this community Boollaitan Bored, and how many of those couplings have turned to true, lasting and mutually supportive LOVE?
P.P.S. Bin too knackered to flack da moovies, but "Simpsons, The Movie" and "Bourne Ultimatum" both ROCK!
And "The Q" goes on.
P.P.P.S. Check out "The Toad", a bit too boomy sound wise (They're working on it), but a real effort to create a community pub and perhaps recapture a bit of the magic that was "The Vic".
www.thetaodpub.com (https://www.thetaodpub.com)
:burngrnbounce:
Touche! ThePhiant...I'd rather (and I have) pay an immigrant $25.00/hr. cash to clean my home or do my yard work rather than pay an 'agency' that hires illegal immigrants 40.00+ to do the work for me..
I would give my own hard earned money to someone who is a citizen here...or, to someone who came here legally...Geez, imagine that!...Someone who struggled and had to wait yrs. to come here legally...
There is NO EXCUSE for abusing or depriving anyone of having a decent life and earning their living for an honest reason. NO EXCUSE!
Okay, so tell that to the MEXICAN GOV'T!...or, any other one who's treating their people like trash!....Geez, imagine people bein' able to make a decent life in their own countries so they don't come here illegally to try and support their families...
...All the statistics show that when levels of income rise, people stop having lots of kids.'...
Yeah, that's the point...
Good luck though with the Catholic (oppressive) Church in Latin America...
ThePhiant
08-04-2007, 08:26 AM
How would we do that? You might wonder. Well.... I've always said that until all necessary labor that no one wanted to do was done by machines, the human race would never be free.
And for all you anti-techno Luddites out there. I feel your pain, but "ya cain't stop Pro-Grass" so tough noogies!!
Machines???????
you mean more blood for oil???????
(Actually it's a much more interesting debate. But I'm done for the moment, except for the appended P.S. and P.S.S....)
"Mad" Miles
P.S. As for a waccobb.net dating service. How many people have hooked up via this community Boollaitan Bored, and how many of those couplings have turned to true, lasting and mutually supportive LOVE?
P.P.S. Bin too knackered to flack da moovies, but "Simpsons, The Movie" and "Bourne Ultimatum" both ROCK!
And "The Q" goes on.
P.P.P.S. Check out "The Toad", a bit too boomy sound wise (They're working on it), but a real effort to create a community pub and perhaps recapture a bit of the magic that was "The Vic".
www.thetaodpub.com (https://www.thetaodpub.com/)
now what does any of this have to do with people dying in the desert???????
BARRY BARRY BARRY BARRY BARRY BARRYBARRY BARRYBARRYBARRY
this guy is trying to turn this thread in to his personal forum.
what's up with that??????
Anarchy in the ranks??????????????
:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:
ThePhiant
08-04-2007, 08:38 AM
Dear Lynn,
European farmers and tradespeople were offered money to come to America to establish themselves here and populate the country.
others were people fleeing religious persecution.
some were hardcore criminals, who had no other place to go
so when you talk about your ancestors, you can see that it was a fine mixture of people.
oh and most of them spoke no english
Becky
08-12-2007, 11:09 PM
sure no one deserves to die who is crossing the desert looking for a better life but when a person it left with no other choice in their own country it is their choice and their choice alone to take a difficult journey in hopes of a better life here in America. While i would love to see everyone who came to this country come here legally i know for now that isn't possible. I wonder how many of these so called illegals even know how to come here legally. Is this even something that is common knowledge?
I can see how there are valid points to this argument on every side. Everyone at some point is going to say they are right and someone else is wrong but that is a privilege we get with freedom of speech. If you are lucky enough to be a citizen just by being born in this country then you don't know first hand the challenges of what it takes to come to this country legal or not. If you know someone personally who has you can at least say that you have more knowledge than someone like myself who was born here and has enjoyed the privilege of being raised as a US Citizen since birth. This country is not perfect but i can't see myself living anywhere else.
I think i have gone a little of track here so i will stop on that note.
I wonder how many of these so called illegals even know how to come here legally. Is this even something that is common knowledge?
Of course they know how to come here legally...But, many of them don't want to wait...And the Mexican gov't encourages them to come here illegally...
I'm tired of the U.S. being a dumping ground for Mexico...The Mexican gov't doesn't want to take care of it's own people...And I'm tired of what our gov't is doing with the whole situation - mostly nothing...And it's U.S. citizens who are losing out in the whole situation...
Dark Shadows
12-21-2007, 01:02 AM
I have one answer for you guys:
Indian Country Today:
https://www.eere.energy.gov/state_energy_program/update/images/12-04_map_indian_country.gif
Indian Country Before English Colonization:
https://www.evgschool.org/images/indian_culture_map.jpg
Don't talk to me about who belongs here and who doesn't.
I wonder how many of these so called illegals even know how to come here legally. Is this even something that is common knowledge?
Of course they know how to come here legally...But, many of them don't want to wait...And the Mexican gov't encourages them to come here illegally...
I'm tired of the U.S. being a dumping ground for Mexico...The Mexican gov't doesn't want to take care of it's own people...And I'm tired of what our gov't is doing with the whole situation - mostly nothing...And it's U.S. citizens who are losing out in the whole situation...
Becky
12-21-2007, 01:14 AM
:Clap: Bravo :apls:
I have one answer for you guys:
Indian Country Today:
Indian Country Before English Colonization:
Don't talk to me about who belongs here and who doesn't.
I have one answer for you guys:
Yep, it sucks...But that is not much of an 'answer'....
I'm a native person...born and raised here...And I can't help what happened in the past...But, I can speak up now about what I see happening in what is my country...If you don't like it...Tough!...
Dark Shadows..."Don't talk to me about who belongs here and who doesn't."...
I will also note...that you (along with Becky)...seem to hold a pretty racist position...
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Lenny
12-21-2007, 06:05 AM
Lynn, worse than that: the "government" peeps want cheap labor, increase voters rolls, and increase in size and power of gov't agencies.
The first solution is to build a wall. Let all the smart folks here argue about the wonders of it all, but build a wall. My family came legally and know of the issues, past and present, and the REAL FIRST solution is to build that wall/border. But we no longer have the will. And by "we", I mean the ..........you know, I don't even know who "we" are anymore, as it is not "We, the people", because WE don't want what is currently the status quo!
I wonder how many of these so called illegals even know how to come here legally. Is this even something that is common knowledge?
Of course they know how to come here legally...But, many of them don't want to wait...And the Mexican gov't encourages them to come here illegally...
I'm tired of the U.S. being a dumping ground for Mexico...The Mexican gov't doesn't want to take care of it's own people...And I'm tired of what our gov't is doing with the whole situation - mostly nothing...And it's U.S. citizens who are losing out in the whole situation...
Becky
12-21-2007, 10:09 AM
Lynn I am no more racist than you. I wouldn't call the previous post a raciest opinion but considering this land was taken from the natives by force if anyone should get this land back should be the natives. Sure its in the past and its sad and it can not be changed. Immigration sucks but as a country we are a mix of all nations because of the immigration that has started hundreds of year ago. There is no one race better than another in this country becuase we are a mix though some people will argue other wise. I am native too but I am also a mix of other races who's ancestors are from another country who came here to get a better life for themselves and their family. I agree there are some immigrants who are leaching off the system but there are so many of our very own citizens doing the exact same damn thing so to say immigration control is going to fix the problem is far from the truth.
Dark Shadows..."Don't talk to me about who belongs here and who doesn't."...
I will also note...that you (along with Becky)...seem to hold a pretty racist position...<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --><!-- using waccobburl -->
Dynamique
12-21-2007, 12:34 PM
BRAVO!! Very well put.
Dennis Kucinich did a great job of identifying the problem at the NPR Demo debate a few days ago: NAFTA is the culprit, and these folks coming to the US from the south are economic refugees.
The laws against employing illegal aliens need to be enforced. I have long contended that if those who are convicted of knowingly employing illegal aliens received a mandatory 1 year prison sentence, there would be nothing here to attract illegal aliens. It's sort of like if you don't want to attract bears or dogs, don't leave a hunk of meat out on the porch.
The bottom line: NAFTA was designed to screw over all of the working people of the Americas, and it has been working well. It's time for the working people of the Americas to GET RID OF NAFTA.
Of course they know how to come here legally...But, many of them don't want to wait...And the Mexican gov't encourages them to come here illegally...
I'm tired of the U.S. being a dumping ground for Mexico...The Mexican gov't doesn't want to take care of it's own people...And I'm tired of what our gov't is doing with the whole situation - mostly nothing...And it's U.S. citizens who are losing out in the whole situation...
Becky...Immigration sucks but as a country we are a mix of all nations because of the immigration that has started hundreds of year ago. There is no one race better than another in this country becuase we are a mix though some people will argue other wise.
I don't agree that immigration itself 'sucks'...It sucked bigtime for the Native Indians - yes, and it's tragic...But, for better or worse, it worked out quite nice for a lot of other people. Since humans first walked out of Africa - they've fought a lot over land - some win, some lose and that's just the way it's gone...
And most of the problem now is...Overpopulation, overconsumption...We are using up our resources faster than the earth can replenish...If we want to allow legal immigrants in, we can't afford to allow an untold amount of illegals in if we care about quality of life, and biodiversity...It's as simple as that...It has nothing to do with which 'race' or 'ethnicity' is better than any other - that's just a distraction from some of the real problems we are creating...Why people even assume that if someone is against illegal immigration, they automatically are racist is ridiculous...
Becky...I agree there are some immigrants who are leaching off the system but there are so many of our very own citizens doing the exact same damn thing so to say immigration control is going to fix the problem is far from the truth.
First of all, I'm quite aware that we have some of our own citizens who 'leach off the system'...This however does not mean we should ignore the problems of illegal immigration and not be strict in who we let in our country and who we don't...
-------------------------------
Dynamique...The bottom line: NAFTA was designed to screw over all of the working people of the Americas, and it has been working well. It's time for the working people of the Americas to GET RID OF NAFTA.
Yep, it seems NAFTA is pretty bad news...If we could get politicians in office who actually cared about the lower class workers in both U.S. and Mexico and would repeal NAFTA that would be start - I would hope!...
-----------------------------
Lenny...Lynn, worse than that: the "government" peeps want cheap labor, increase voters rolls, and increase in size and power of gov't agencies.
The first solution is to build a wall. Let all the smart folks here argue about the wonders of it all, but build a wall. My family came legally and know of the issues, past and present, and the REAL FIRST solution is to build that wall/border. But we no longer have the will. And by "we", I mean the ..........you know, I don't even know who "we" are anymore, as it is not "We, the people", because WE don't want what is currently the status quo!
Yep, it's about desperation and cheap labor...And our gov't is making it incredibly easy for illegals to come, live and work here...I don't know if a 'wall' is going to help much at all...The problems are so serious...And both desperate, and criminally oriented people will still find a way to get here...I just wish the govt's cared more and would make it better for the people in Mexico and other places, so they wouldn't be so desperate to come here...
d-cat
12-24-2007, 09:29 AM
I'm for a health and criminal records check for immigrants, as is required for people entering from other parts of the world. I think just letting people enter freely and then granting them amnesty is not a good idea. It makes me wonder if the recent outbreaks of leprosy and TB here in the US are related to this.
The numbers I have seen are that up to 38 million illegal immigrants are now in the US.
https://educate-yourself.org/cn/illegalalienspop38million04oct07.shtml
https://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/081007_b_immigrants.htm
OrchardDweller
12-30-2007, 12:33 PM
Look at this news story about how Mexico deals with illegal immigrants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XScXum6vjM
.