Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

[tomcat]

Thank you for your positive thoughts on this subject. It is a breath of fresh air to see such sanity on this Thread.

Even if all of the members of this Board were involved in the discussion, it would still be a very small percentage of the population that would be attracted to an expanded market situation in Sebastopol.

Some people seem to fear change, that's normal. I am thinking that an expanded Sunday Market will work out Very well for everyone in the long run.

Tom


Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!

[Chris Dec]

So. OK... what does the rest of the community think of this wearying thread? I am finally weighing in:

I’m a new vendor at the S F M where I sell my hand-crafted jewelry. It’s a tiny little business and I hope my vendor's table at the Farmers Market grows it a bit.

Reading the discussion here in the Wacco, I feel like a parent dropping off her kid at daycare where the adults have drawn guns in their personal hatreds of each other and care very little about my kid... remember.. my little craft business?

I want to thank Orm Embar for the reminder that this battle represents a very small percentage of the people, most of whom want to get on to the business of selling and enjoying a lovely Sunday morning.

When I was preparing to vote in the last election, I found it difficult to wade through the vitriol and untruths of some opposing candidates to determine who would be the best candidate. I wished fervently for someone to take all the advertising and have it condensed by an objective, knowledgeable journalist, and simply print the truth. And I wish for that NOW. No one wants to hear any more He Said-She Said. I am almost ready to remove this uncomfortable thread from my daily email.

As a vendor (who can’t get a table every week because it is too crowded) I am already losing business because of a venue that can’t always accommodate me. An expanded market would only bring me MORE business. As a Sebastopudlian, I think two markets on the same day and time would not pose a problem. When I go to Target, I ALWAYS go over to Cost Plus or Bed, Bath and Beyond, across a busy SR Av. Each of those stores, by being there, helps bring shoppers to the other. So, Orm, count my voice as heard.

Chris Dec




Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!

[Rnomistakes]

Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!

While we may not agree on a Barlow Sunday Market I really appreciate the way you expressed your opinion without vilifying opposing points of view. One of the things I appreciate about Sebastopol is it's an opinionated community with lots of varied opinions. And it is good to hear opinions from all sides of the issue from more participants.

I also agree on your thoughts about boycotting business. No matter how this ends up I personally will never boycott any local business. Too much time and personal sweat goes into trying to establish a business in this economy, local business deserve our support.. I will continue to support downtown business and look forward to supporting new local business in the Barlow.

[Barry]

Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

By my count there have been 33 people who have posted to this thread. That's not bad (and thank you all for chiming in!) , but I agree with you that more would be better! If you haven't posted your opinion here yet, please do! You don't need to get caught up in the "back-and-forth" discussion. You can just weigh in one time and share your thoughts with us, including if you haven't made up your mind.

In particular, I'd like to hear from current vendors at the Sebastopol Farmer's Market, people who would like to be vendors that haven't been included, merchants from downtown Sebastopol, current and future merchants of The Barlow, crafts people, musicians, community organizations and any other constituency, along with just your own personal opinion/concerns/observations.

In order to keep this discussion on topic, I have split off any discussion regarding Nancy Prebilich legal issues with the farm market and any other Nancy-centric issues, including my moderation of Nancy and the issues surrounding her, to another thread: Nancy and the Farmer's Market (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?97511-Nancy-and-the-Farmer-s-Market&goto=newpost). I want to keep this thread about the future of the farmer's market(s) and not about Nancy. Nancy has already posted 23 times on this thread (way more than anyone else) , and many more times on the previous thread. She is welcome to post on this thread at most once every 24 hours if she has something new to say and isn't attacking anybody in any way.

Moving on...

It seems this issue will ultimately be decided by the Planning Commission. I have heard a report (that I can't validate) that The Barlow will present their plan at the joint City Council/Planning Commission meeting on April 23 (https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/events-and-meetings/joint_city_council-planning_commission_meeting_agenda_04.23.13.pdf) (where there will be a presentation of the General Plan Update report - so it would be worthy to be there in any case). Then, as Helen Shane has posted (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?97335-Sebastopol-Farm-Market-in-the-Plaza-or-at-the-Barlow&p=165186#post165186), the Planning Commission will meet on May 14th at 7pm to discuss it, presumably accepting public comments.

While I'm sure there will be lots of comments for and against the proposal, my question is: What's the appropriate basis for a decision to be made? Some will argue that's it's good for business at The Barlow, some may argue that it is bad for downtown businesses, some will argue that it will give more vendors opportunities to market their wares, and other will argue that it will divide the community. While I think all those concerns are legitimate points for a community discussion, they don't seem to me to be an appropriate basis for the city to decide to grant a use permit.

I think they should be concerned about more civic things such as health and safety, traffic, parking, and such. The points mentioned above (good for business, etc.) are really issues for the free market, and not for the city to decide, IMO. A second farmer's market in that sense is no different then a second ice cream parlor. What do you think??

[Chris Dec]

Barry, PRECISELY. Another ice cream parlor (used as only an example, Mimi's!) would simply offer another choice for people. Several vendors at the market offer the very same vegetables and lilacs. They don't feel threatened by each other for that competition, because they have something else uniquely theirs to offer. There are many things sold at the market that can be purchased at Whole Foods, but I am almost sure Whole Foods LOVES the market. Look at the potential shoppers it brings into town. A rational conclusion to the observation of crowds, parking and traffic is this: we could sure use a bigger or even another market.


By my count there have been 33 people who have posted to this thread. That's not bad (and thank you all for chiming in!) , but I agree with you that more would be better! If you haven't posted your opinion here yet, please do! You don't need to get caught up in the "back-and-forth" discussion. You can just weigh in one time and share your thoughts with us, including if you haven't made up your mind.
...

A second farmer's market in that sense is no different then a second ice cream parlor. What do you think??

[sebastacat]

Hello, Barry and fellow Waccobbians....

Pardon my persistence, but I must reply to the points raised in Barry's last post.

While I agree with most of the points which you have raised therein, I must disagree with you strenuously with the point you raised about approving another farmers market being no different than approving another ice cream parlor.

I do not believe that these two business can be compared to each other in any way. For one, an ice-cream business is a STATIONARY business in that its equipment, fixtures, ice cream freezers, etc., remain in one place, while a farmers market, like the one which is being proposed, will have up to 100 different vendors who will be coming in prior to the opening of the market, setting up their booths, stocking their products for sale, transacting business, and then taking down their booth, packing up their products, putting them in their vehicles (most of which, I am assuming, will use petroleum fuel), and then driving back to their home or headquarters -- or maybe even to another farmers market in another town for all we know.

I am assuming -- although I have not confirmed this -- that the rules which apply to a stationary ice cream shop are different than those which apply to a farmers market which is held for one day of the week only and involves lots of movement and setup on the part of its vendors.

On that basis, I believe that traffic will be impacted by the vendors themselves; unfortunately, it's unavoidable. But then again, I suppose one could make the same argument about the market held in the plaza as well.

I further believe that if a Sunday market at the Barlow is approved, I believe that traffic will increase exponentially, as you will have people coming into town to shop at that market as well as the current market, and this will only get worse as the number of vendors increases, along with the popularity of the market itself.

Question: How many of you can honestly say that traffic on a Sunday morning in downtown Sebastopol is not currently congested and that parking, to put it mildly, is not a challenge?

Once again, I will reiterate my opinions which I have set forth in my earlier posts.
I will also add that no matter what decision is finally made by our planning commission,
I am asking for cool heads to prevail and for threats of boycotts of local businesses based
on their stance on this issue to stop. That will serve no purpose whatsoever. It will only hurt the downtown merchants who have had their hands full coping with and emerging from the worst recession/depression since The Great Depression. Sebastopol is such a great community because it encourages freedom of expression in a vibrant, free-speech community.

Please, for the future well-being of our community, let's keep it that way.

[caverly]

The current Farmer's market has the heart-spirit-intimacy that is so distinctive of our blessed-commonunity . By some it is considered the best in Northen California because of these unique qualities{ and i believe this , as do many who currently enjoy it } . It is the intimate space where families , friends, children-parents-adults and neighbors gather together and the value of this is IMMENSE. A Very special social gathering - so much heart&spirit !!! Uniquely small-town Sebastopol spirit . It also is of tremendous value to our small village businesses and helps them survive and prosper by the traffic .

If the Barlow goes ahead and competes on Sundays , the plaza market will suffer and probably lose much of its vitality . The plaza lay-out is small scale , intimate
{circular feng-shui } , grass&trees , pedestrian -centric and music in the middle = idylic . The Barlow is much the opposite : spread out , linear , parking between every stall and sterile . No comparison as far as small town flavor and ambience . At the plaza , the music and kids playing and adults dancing around , and shmoozing on the grass all flows together beautifully =priceless . { Take a walk around the concrete Barlow and you will immediately see this significanct difference }.


To address the needs of the vendors/farmers , why have them competeing on the same day ??? Let the Barlow leave well enough alone { not disrupt our Plaza market which is a marvelous SOCIAL asset of our commonunity } and pick ANY other time of the week for their business and to create space for more farmers to sell their goods . This is a win-win . Sebastopol spoke out loud&clear that we don't consider BIG=Better when they finally nixed CVS/Chase . Quality counts here !!! and the farmers can have 2 markets to sell at instead of just one . Just don't canabalize the Plaza market ; this is the way that Walmart competes and destroys .

[scamperwillow]

I agree with all of that, except for one thing....The council did not nix the CVS/Chase project - they approved it. although there are still some design changes and lawsuits in the works, the project does indeed have conditional approval of the project.


The current Farmer's market has the heart-spirit-intimacy that is so distinctive of our blessed-commonunity . By some it is considered the best in Northen California because of these unique qualities{ and i believe this , as do many who currently enjoy it } . ...

Sebastopol spoke out loud&clear that we don't consider BIG=Better when they finally nixed CVS/Chase ....

[Barry]

It's been pointed out to me that my post at the end of the earlier thread on this topic (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?93827-Farmer-s-Market-at-The-Barlow&p=164872#post164872) (which helped kicked off this current discussion) which characterized a Sunday farmers market at The Barlow as "competing" and a "controversy" may have set the stage for the current controversy.

Indeed the first post on this thread (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?97335-Sebastopol-Farm-Market-in-the-Plaza-or-at-the-Barlow&p=164870#post164870), which was posted before I posted mine, expressed a similar sentiment. None the less my post was more from my role as moderator and my characterization of the market as "competing" and "controversial" was coming more from my own opinion which wasn't all that reflected in posts by others in the earlier thread.

So please accept my apology if I influenced your feelings about this development inadvertently. I encourage you to give the possibility of a second farmer's market on Sunday at The Barlow a fresh consideration. There's also the possibility, I suppose, that somehow the current market in some form will move to The Barlow.

[joybird]

If you haven't posted your opinion here yet, please do!

While I'm sure there will be lots of comments for and against the proposal, my question is: What's the appropriate basis for a decision to be made? t . What do you think??

I want to know what the vendors think now. It seems a decision was made to move to the Barlow 2 years ago. Do the majority of the vendors still want to move there?

When I spoke to Paula about the move maybe 2 years ago she felt it was a good thing- more room for more vendors. I said I loved the plaza and the fountain and the kids running naked and free. She had been told there would be a fountain and grass.

I do not want 2 markets on Sunday. I do not want to split the community. I want most of all to support the small, local, organic, farmers. I want this Earth and all her inhabitants to thrive. Read local author and Peak Everything Expert Richard Heinberg's address to the EF Shumaker Soceity here https://neweconomicsinstitute.org/content/50-million-farmers. In order to survive the coming transitions we NEED small local farmers, 50 million of them. And for them to survive we need to support them now so we will have them in the future.

Let's base our decisions on sustainability for the next 7 generations.

Joy Helstien
not a vendor or merchant

[sebastacat]

Thanks for your heart-felt post, Joybird.

Yes, I sure would like to see a fountain and grass at the Barlow, but unfortunately, we're not going to get it.
In fact, so far as I can tell, there really is no community space there at all. And I believe that's because the first architect for the project, who was none other than Ms. Kathy Austin, designed it that way. We have her to thank for putting her indelible stamp on the project...and the ones who will suffer will be the citizens of Sebastopol and the patrons of the Barlow.

Just think how much nicer the project would have looked and felt if a community square, complete with a fountain and green area, had been provided for the enjoyment of all. I have no idea where all these weary shoppers that they're anticipating patronizing the many businesses over there are going to seek respite. Ironically, if they have any energy left after lugging their bags around on the hot asphalt, maybe they'll be able to make it back over to the town square, and if they're lucky, they just might find an empty spot on one of the city's community benches.

A great opportunity lost. Such a pity.

[Esther Shain]

Yes. I want to be a vendor at the new market.


I want to know what the vendors think now. It seems a decision was made to move to the Barlow 2 years ago. Do the majority of the vendors still want to move there?
...

[Barry]

Yes, I sure would like to see a fountain and grass at the Barlow, but unfortunately, we're not going to get it. In fact, so far as I can tell, there really is no community space there at all. And I believe that's because the first architect for the project, who was none other than Ms. Kathy Austin, designed it that way.

There's at least two bits of misinformation above. First, there have been several architects on The Barlow. The one immediately proceeding Kathy Austin was Thad Geldert out of Sonoma. I don't know who was responsible for what.

Also, there is a bocce ball court, that I imagine will be used for other things too, in the center of the project, plus I'm pretty sure there are benches scattered around as well.

[sebastacat]

Thanks for your post, Barry.

I really don't care who is responsible -- Geldert OR Austin. It is a major flaw in the project. And it should have been corrected BEFORE the project was built.

Nice that they have a Bocce Court. However, I sure hope that they don't use it for anything else.
The thought of thousands of trampling feet stomping on that ground makes this Italian boy cringe with pain!

I'd like to see anyone try to use one of the Bocce Courts in S.F. as a "green area." All of those competitive Bocce players would run them out of the city! And for good reason! Bocce courts must remain smooth and level, or else, how are you going to play the game? Neither shallow footprints from tennis shoes nor deep boot-gashes will do.

Hopefully, there will be more benches added, as it doesn't seem like there are many now.
Perhaps this is just a kink to be worked out later. Let's hope so.

[Orm Embar]

Okay, I was happy to wait for the project to be finished and opened to the public to see what treats would be waiting inside. But . . . this thread got me curious. So - I went to the website and found this description of features:
https://www.thebarlow.net/project/benefits

and this set of renderings and actual photos:
https://www.thebarlow.net/project/photos

You can also click on another page to see the site plan, but I find it a guessing game without the legend telling us what each color means. I can guess, but I'd rather not make assumptions.

I'm happy to say I see green grass, a mature tree, many areas for plants and future trees to grow, and most important to me: lots of pedestrian walkways so all the parking does not translate into a dangerous prairie of car parking, but a nice mix for the mix of people who will use many different ways to get to the Barlow.

Well, now my curiosity has grown . . . does anyone know when it will open? I know there was a setback to Community Market moving in but I'm curious if others are still set to open this spring.




Thanks for your post, Barry.
I really don't care who is responsible -- Geldert OR Austin. It is a major flaw in the project. And it should have been corrected BEFORE the project was built.

[jbox]

Thanks for your heart-felt post, Joybird.

Yes, I sure would like to see a fountain and grass at the Barlow, but unfortunately, we're not going to get it.
In fact, so far as I can tell, there really is no community space there at all. And I believe that's because the first architect for the project, who was none other than Ms. Kathy Austin, designed it that way. We have her to thank for putting her indelible stamp on the project...and the ones who will suffer will be the citizens of Sebastopol and the patrons of the Barlow.

Just think how much nicer the project would have looked and felt if a community square, complete with a fountain and green area, had been provided for the enjoyment of all. I have no idea where all these weary shoppers that they're anticipating patronizing the many businesses over there are going to seek respite. Ironically, if they have any energy left after lugging their bags around on the hot asphalt, maybe they'll be able to make it back over to the town square, and if they're lucky, they just might find an empty spot on one of the city's community benches.

A great opportunity lost. Such a pity.

Hey, hold on just a cotton pickin' minute. The Barlow is still a work in progress, it isn't even finished yet. I don't think there are any up and running small businesses there yet. Why be prejudicial and jump to conclusions? Give it a chance to come to life, to evolve as a public space, to assume warmth and color over time and be a locus for the cultural humanity that Sebastopol willl inevitably offer. To say it's an opportunity lost is just a trifle premature, dontcha think, sebastacat? I think my vision of the space is a pretty cool place with lots of local, home-grown entreprenurial businesses and spirit that will reflect quite positively on Sebastopol. I think it's a natural spot for a lively, quirky farmers market. I think the plaza market with its legal and management baggage should fade away and at the same time the vendors there should be made to feel welcome by the Barlow. Cast off all the old tired BS and make a new start in a new spot and make the new spot a place that the community can get behind and be proud of. Let's be progressive, not tired old conservatives who can't deal with any change.

[sebastacat]

jBox....

Agreed. These are just a couple of my observations. I do want the Barlow to succeed, but I wish that there had been a community square incorporated into the design. So far, I don't see it. Perhaps the small grass area at the west end of the project?

Also, I hope that the folks running the Barlow will reconsider holding the Sunday Market simultaneously with the original Sebastopol Farmers Market and will instead opt for an afternoon-into-evening market instead, similar to the Santa Rosa Farmers Market, but better. This is somthing that I feel would not only be beneficial for our community, but would help our small farmers to succeed as well.

Just think, a Sebastopol evening market could become THE draw of the town, THE big event of the week in the west county, bringing in people from miles around to sample our agricultural bounty and to experience our wonderful town each week.

The community wins; the farmers win. Now THAT'S progressive!

Think about it.

[jbox]

jBox....

Agreed. These are just a couple of my observations. I do want the Barlow to succeed, but I wish that there had been a community square incorporated into the design. So far, I don't see it. Perhaps the small grass area at the west end of the project?

Also, I hope that the folks running the Barlow will reconsider holding the Sunday Market simultaneously with the original Sebastopol Farmers Market and will instead opt for an afternoon-into-evening market instead, similar to the Santa Rosa Farmers Market, but better. This is somthing that I feel would not only be beneficial for our community, but would help our small farmers to succeed as well.

Just think, a Sebastopol evening market could become THE draw of the town, THE big event of the week in the west county, bringing in people from miles around to sample our agricultural bounty and to experience our wonderful town each week.

The community wins; the farmers win. Now THAT'S progressive!

Think about it.

I've thought about it and I don't know why people are stuck on the idea of competing markets. There should be ONE market, at the Barlow. Everybody wins except the current Management of the current market. The market, the location, and the community should all come before the current management. This all seems so clear to me, let's not be divisive, why not move forward in a better direction with a bigger, better market at the superior location.

[Serendipity]

In some ways, I think it doesn't matter... there are millions of different kinds of people and all kinds of interests and people will go where they feel and whoever wants to hug and smile will hug and smile. And maybe you'll miss someone you want to see and maybe you'll never know who or what you're missing and we'll all be fine. :yinyang:

THAT IS, until we are in a car and driving... I just hope our town thinks to post signs all over to REMIND EVERYONE that this town is a Citti Slow... Yes, Walk. Yes, Ride Bike. And yes, when you drive, with the change of the Barlow, expect Hwy 12 to be "REALLY CITTI SLOW" {Let's sing it~ shitty slo, chitty slow- really, really citti slooooo..." But maybe there will be parades outside of the Goodwill and some sign spinners who are good dancers and then we may be entertained, while we inch toward the traffic signals....

My opinion of the Barlow is mostly that someone (probably a male) missed the mark in terms of aesthetics. The aluminum box look really doesn't appeal to me.

I do look forward to having Zazu in town.

[scamperwillow]

There's an article on this topic in this week's Sonoma West Times and News.
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/news/new-farmers-market-coming-to-the-barlow-in-the-near/article_fc057868-a796-11e2-8536-001a4bcf887a.html

[caverly]

jbox wrote : There should be ONE market, at the Barlow.... forward in a better direction with a bigger, better market at the superior location.

i strongly disagree . Sebastopol Plaza Market is the heart of the Sebastopol commonunity - it is an incredible social gathering where friends reconnect and nature ,music and open-heartedness combine harmoniously . The setting is idyllic for neighbors to gather together ;
it is this QUALITY that makes the Plaza market the quintessense of the village ambience and is the magical environment that brings out these qualities best { music , circular feng-shui , grass&trees , children&adults dancing&playing } . It is like in the old days when the Barn-dance , or doing laundry down by the watering-hole , brought the commonunity together in a special way that was so neighborly and the high-point of the week .

This is why people { especially from out of town } are so delighted to visit the Plaza Market and are delighted with how friendly it is . For this subtle reason , many consider it the best Farmer's Market in Northen California . Its the setting and size that give our market these charming neighborly qualities . QUALITY COUNTS - bigger size is not necessarily a good thing , especially if it destroys the 'neighborhood feel '. Like the song says , "they tore up paradise and put in a parking-shopping lot " { The Barlow design, concrete , plan , linearity , size , lack of nature , lack of resting spaces and crowding cars between each pedestrian area is sterile , ill conceived and just the opposite of the incredible vllage Plaza benefits }.

"Bigger is better " is thus not true in this case . If your concern is to allow more vendors { specifically including from out of county ; will they be required to be growing their goods , like now ? } then you can have 3 times more vendors if you open on another day or evening . Big business that destroys our local ambience and flavor is not what Sebastopol wants . Their desire to cannabalize the Plaza Sunday Market so that they can build their traffic is like how Walmart builds their traffic and often destroys their competition . No one asked them to do this to our commonunity . { if they want more vendors then do it ANY OTHER TIME = NOT SUNDAY !!!.

[rekarp]

What will be the management and configuration of the proposed farmers' markets at the Barlow (yes markets - according to the Sebastopol Times & News Article, the Barlow is planning for both a Thursday evening and Sunday market)?

I haven't seen any details about how the new markets will be managed, whether the booth fees will be competitive, the process to determine how vendors will be selected, the mix of farmers, etc. Will the Barlow markets be better in every way, or will there be some new set of unanticipated problems and difficulties with the new management.

I agree with other posters that the current market has a great location in the middle of town and engenders the spirit of community. It brings me to town, not just to buy veggies, but to visit with friends a hang out on the town square. I worry that some or much of these great qualities will be lost if the market is forced to compete with a larger and more corporate market at the Barlow. It took many years of careful nurturing to create the highly successful market that now exists.

Although I do believe that the Barlow owners want to support Sebastopol and be good community-minded citizens, their priority will be making money and serving the interests of their tenants. What future decisions will be made in the event that the farmers market siphons profits from the tenants or the owners of the Barlow?


I've thought about it and I don't know why people are stuck on the idea of competing markets. There should be ONE market, at the Barlow. Everybody wins except the current Management of the current market. The market, the location, and the community should all come before the current management. This all seems so clear to me, let's not be divisive, why not move forward in a better direction with a bigger, better market at the superior location.

[oliviathunderkitty]

If we expand our vision of downtown to stretch from The Barlow west to the Center for the Arts, then the Plaza is the town's heart. And I agree that it already functions as such, especially on Sundays, when one can linger for hours (I often do).

I hope that The Barlow does well but I do not want the center of town to shift there--that would throw everything off balance. The Barlow's success must not come at the price of a diminished downtown or a diminished farmers market.

[caverly]

Please No Sunday Competition : Our Plaza market is a treasure to us - we put a lot of our hearts into it and we want it to prosper as it currently does . We recognize it as our Crown-Jewel , the heart of our commonunity , weekly 3 hour miraculous visits with friends and a uniquely beautiful and appropriate setting .

Why compete on Sundays? There are 13 other time slots in the week ; please choose any that you wish - and we will be excited to support you .....

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Previous statements describing this :

by Rekarp
I agree with other posters that the current market has a great location in the middle of town and engenders the spirit of community. It brings me to town, not just to buy veggies, but to visit with friends a hang out on the town square. I worry that some or much of these great qualities will be lost if the market is forced to compete with a larger and more corporate market at the Barlow. It took many years of careful nurturing to create the highly successful market that now exists.

by Oliviathunderkitty :
If … , then Plaza is the town's heart. And I agree that it already functions as such, especially on Sundays, when one can linger for hours (I often do).
I hope that The Barlow does well but I do not want the center of town to shift there--that would throw everything off balance. The Barlow's success must not come at the price of a diminished downtown or a diminished farmers market.

by caverly :
Sebastopol Plaza Market is the heart of the Sebastopol commonunity - it is an incredible social gathering where friends reconnect and nature ,music and open-heartedness combine harmoniously . The setting is idyllic for neighbors to gather together

[Nancy M Prebilich]

If I can't say Marty lied about who REALLY operates the Sebastopol Farm Market and who/what was involved in the litigation, then probably can't say you're completely backtracking and doing a 180 (I refer everyone to post #71):

"From: oliviathunderkitty

Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market
<>

WOW!!!!! Fabulous news, Paula. Yay!!! I'd do handsprings if I could.

Great, thoughtful post overall, too, full of wisdom and thoughtfulness. Thank you."

So I won't saaaay the obvious, I just want to ask the question AGAIN... Why?! Could it be because the only person who is SURE to loose at the Barlow Farmers Market is Paula, and if she looses her job, you loose a kick down? And Barry looses perhaps his biggest advertisers? And if this is exposed, you both loose readership, which you count on for your paycheck? Hmmmmmmmm?! [*Interesting side note... Look at what the other person who's done a 180 does for a living: Marty Roberts Productions..." Helping small business and nonprofits deliver their message to their audience!"]

And for all those who haven't figured it out.... I did not sue the "Sebastopol Farm Market" because it didn't actually EXIST!! I sued the governing organization, the Sonoma County Farmers Market Association, who's board is comprised of 3 individuals: Paula Downing, Hilda Swartz, Erica Burns Gorman; the three market managers of Sebastopol, Petaluma, Sonoma, Oakmont, and formerly Santa Rosa. Sebastopol USE to exist, until Paula refilled it under her own organization- without alerting anyone. Just like it happened in Sonoma, so it's happening in Seb.: READ...

https://news.sonomaportal.com/2010/10/22/stunning-revelations-in-farmers-market-saga/
https://news.sonomaportal.com/2011/02/17/the-latest-farmer%e2%80%99s-market-flap//
https://news.sonomaportal.com/2010/10/28/good-riddance-to-rotten-produce/
https://news.sonomaportal.com/2011/02/17/cheesy-politics-at-the-farmers-market/
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20101115/ARTICLES/101119635

Everyone should also know that according to their Bylaws: https://www.sonoma-county.org/agcomm/pdf/farmers_market/sebastopol_cfm_rules_regs.pdf, not only can the SCFMA board of 3 have employment contracts with the farmers markets they govern... they also get to "receive such compensation, if any, for their service as director or officer... as the board may establish by resloution to be just and reasonable."

Oh... by the way... did you all hear the good news?! Paula is now the market manager in Petaluma too! Congratulations, Paula! Good move, considering you probably can't count on the increased stall fee revenue at the Barlow anymore, that probably would have doubled your salary, like it did when you went year-round.

FOLLOW THE MONEY PEOPLE!!!!! I did... I do.... THAT's why I have to be silenced!!

Caverly, please first educate yourself on the Direct Marketing Act of 1976 and what makes a CA State Certified Farmers Market under the California Dept. of Food and Agriculture before asking,"will they be required to be growing their goods , like now ?"

And for those of you who say,"I don't care what happened in the past!" I pray to God this is not how you teach our children to approach history!

Happy reading everyone... you're welcome.

PS: Barry, you were absolutely right, I did post 23 times, way more than anyone else. BUT you (inadvertently, I'm sure) NEGLECTED to mention that 11 of my posts were direct responses to the 18 posts that were either directly TO ME or ABOUT ME, 6 of which were by you, and in general there were 13 post (either by me or others) defending my right to respond!! Just saying... you forgot a few numbers. :-)

<br><br>
If we expand our vision of downtown to stretch from The Barlow west to the Center for the Arts, then the Plaza is the town's heart. And I agree that it already functions as such, especially on Sundays, when one can linger for hours (I often do).

I hope that The Barlow does well but I do not want the center of town to shift there--that would throw everything off balance. The Barlow's success must not come at the price of a diminished downtown or a diminished farmers market.

[theindependenteye]

(from Elizabeth) --
How did this get to be about who runs the Plaza market vs who might run the Barlow market? I look forward every week to going to the Plaza to visit all the folks I know who grow things, and I see everybody I know who likes getting these growing things, and I giggle at the little kids and bump into folks I haven't seen for a while. It's warm, it's friendly, and it's about local stuff. I love it. Somebody made this happen.
So, what I'm hearing from one side is, take it all to the Barlow (warm fuzzy atmosphere, anybody?) and let it grow there, and presto, soon enough you'll love that, too. Well, maybe, stranger things have happened. But why should we have to exterminate something that's beautiful now in order to nourish an unknown that might be beautiful down the road?
I'm a theatre person. That, in itself, might disqualify me from making sense. But I have seen, so many times, the sad story of a passionate bunch of folks creating a grass-roots cool thing that a lot of people love, and then it catches the eye of those who believe in business models. Before you know it, a board of directors has evaluated the bottom line, the folks who made it happen are out, the new improved structure is in place, and whaddaya know -- after the change has happened, in a little while the whole thing goes bust. (If you want to know my stats, ask me.)
If an essential part of the problem is that there isn't enough vendor space at the Plaza, I'd suggest that the idea of a Sunday afternoon/evening Barlow would be a genius idea. Carry the momentum over to the next area, and let the Barlow rock on into the evening. Sounds like a win-win to me. They can create their own irresistable event.
And for vendors who have to put a lot of time and money into loading and transportation, if they could just phase over from one space to the other, seems the me like it might be a win/win. Whereas, having to load out from one site, go home, and come back again the next day — c'mon, folks, how does this make sense?
IMHO, we have been bombarded for far too long from the ad-world, being urged to choose between our only choices — McDonalds vs Burger King, Ford vs Chevy — and all the mighty weight of the shapers has been to say, this is your world. A versus B, and there is no more alphabet. And I say, F&#$ that. There is more alphabet there. We need to reject the implanted notion that connection (community) is a wimpy, impossible, naive idea. No. No F&%$#*g way, no.
I hope the Barlow blooms and becomes something I visit on a weekly basis. I hope all our farmers find that their labor is rewarded. And above all, I hope that Sebastopol remembers that we are all in this together.

[scamperwillow]

I want to remind everyone - show up at the Planning Commission where the decision on a permit for the Barlow Market will be made. That is where it counts. All of this is just talk - which is fine - but the rubber hits the road at the Planning commission tentatively scheduled for May 14. Meanwhile, write to the planning commission members and the city council with your thoughts. A second market on Sunday cannot be held without a permit from the city. Do they think we should have two farm markets at the exact same time? Show up and find out.

[treasure]

Good reminder. Does anyone have a list of email addresses for the Planning Commissioners, one that's ready to drop into the address line of our email message(s) to them?
Tara


I want to remind everyone - show up at the Planning Commission where the decision on a permit for the Barlow Market will be made. That is where it counts. All of this is just talk - which is fine - but the rubber hits the road at the Planning commission tentatively scheduled for May 14. Meanwhile, write to the planning commission members and the city council with your thoughts. A second market on Sunday cannot be held without a permit from the city. Do they think we should have two farm markets at the exact same time? Show up and find out.

[scamperwillow]

Here are the planning commissioners - they are waiting to hear from you!
Russ Pinto [email protected]
scot stegeman [email protected]
Yvette Williams Van Agellen [email protected]
Michael Jacob [email protected]
Colin Doyle [email protected]
Evert Fernandez [email protected]
Linda Kelley [email protected]

([email protected])


Good reminder. Does anyone have a list of email addresses for the Planning Commissioners, one that's ready to drop into the address line of our email message(s) to them?
Tara

[Asherah]

<br><br>
The Barlow management has applied for a permit to have a competing Sunday farmers market. we have talked about this before on WACCO and there was alot of feeling expressed that we should stay at the plaza and that it would be a bloody shame if the Barlow decided to compete on the same day. Beware...they are.
this would tear our community apart....why do it?

How about a Vegan Farmer's Market that does not include any products derived from animals? Maybe the Barlow could host that on some evening; I know alot of people would appreciate this.

[79paul]

I just sent letters to the Commissioners.
The address for Colin Doyle bounced. Does anyone know another address?
Make your voice heard NIOW!!!


Here are the planning commissioners - they are waiting to hear from you!
Russ Pinto [email protected]
scot stegeman [email protected]
Yvette Williams Van Agellen [email protected]
Michael Jacob [email protected]
Colin Doyle [email protected]
Evert Fernandez [email protected]
Linda Kelley [email protected]

([email protected])

[scamperwillow]

Here is the correct email address: Colin Doyle <[email protected]>


I just sent letters to the Commissioners.
The address for Colin Doyle bounced. Does anyone know another address?
Make your voice heard NIOW!!!

[biannoli]

I sent letter too and Colin Doyle bounced back. Let's all go to that meeting in any case.

[Barry]

The following article by the Sebastopol Famers Market board appeared on the opinion section of the Sonoma West website today.

https://i.imgur.com/yv1Iu.png (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/)

Setting the record straight by the Sebastopol Farmers Market board
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/opinion/editorials/setting-the-record-straight-by-the-sebastopol-farmers-market-board/article_57bea760-ad32-11e2-9e57-001a4bcf887a.html

Posted: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:57 pm

The Sebastopol Farmers Market is not moving to the Barlow. We will continue to serve the community in the Town Plaza every Sunday. We have also applied for a permit to hold a market in the plaza on Thursday evening to better serve the community and to create opportunities for new farmers.

History with the Barlow:

Several years ago, after persistent requests from the Barlow, the Sebastopol Farmers Market membership voted to investigate the feasibility of moving to the Barlow if several specific contingencies were met. After two years of negotiating in good faith, the Barlow began to require conditions that were unreasonable and unrealistic.

Their demands included changing our management team, participating directly in our day-to-day operations, overseeing decisions about vendors and even changing our governance structure. After unsuccessfully attempting to reason and compromise with the Barlow and after receiving feedback from the membership at our annual meeting last December, the Market ended discussions about moving.

Having failed to win over the hearts and minds of the legitimate 35-plus-year-old non-profit farmer-run Sebastopol Farmers Market, the Barlow is now trying to ramrod its own unrealistic vision of a competing mega-farmers market onto the city of Sebastopol under the guise of fairness.

Why a competing mega-farmers market at the Barlow is wrong for Sebastopol:

• The Barlow’s proposal would result in competing markets offering identical products for a combined total of 150 vendors. The Sebastopol Farmers Market currently has 50 vendors. The Barlow’s proposed market would make it one the largest combined farmers markets in the state, close in size to the Marin Civic Center market. This is a completely unrealistic increase in vendors and supply in our small town.

• There has been no professional or 3rd party feasibility study to determine if the Barlow’s proposed mega-market can be supported economically. Nationwide USDA research in farmers markets indicates that the average distance traveled by shoppers is 10-15 miles. It’s common sense: People tend to shop close to where they live. The math just doesn’t add up.

• Two competing farmer markets offering the same mix of products will result in decreased sales for everyone. The experience in Santa Rosa where a second farmers market was forcibly introduced is a good example of the negative impact that can occur. Sales at both markets have dropped, not increased.

• A second farmers market within a two block radius in our small town will create a divisive and confusing atmosphere with market vendors, city merchants and the community.

• The Sebastopol Farmers Market is a 100 percent member-run non-profit organization, whose main mission is to support and promote our local food system and provide opportunities for a diverse group of farmers and artisans to earn a living. We are 100 percent farmer, artisan, crafter owned and managed. In contrast, the Barlow is led by a handful of developers that want to use a farmers market to beautify their development while undermining the legitimate Sebastopol Farm Market.

• The Barlow is unproven. Their confrontational mega-market proposal demonstrates a lack of understanding of the nuances of running a thriving and successful hometown farmers market and the important role it plays in the community.

Asking for help:

The Barlow’s application for a competing farmers market will be reviewed at a Planning Commission hearing on Tuesday, May 14, at 7 p.m., at the Youth Annex located at 425 Morris Street. We humbly ask all of you who support the continuation of our beautiful tradition to attend.

The Sebastopol Farmers Market Board of Directors includes Nathan Boone, First Light Farm; Steve Howard, Three Ox Farm; Kelly Roach, Laguna Farm; Craig Jones, Cosmic Cookie; Stuart Shroeder, Stone Horse Farm; George Macros, Earthworker Farm; Adam Davidoff, New Family Farm and Cliff Silva, Ma & Pa’s Garden.

[Barry]

After a rumor that said The Barlow was withdrawing their application for a Sunday Farmers Market was posted here and subsequently deleted, I reached out to Bret Martin, who is heading up the process for The Barlow, for a comment and he replied with:

"we pulled back to allow time for a mediator to get us a meeting. paulas board is deciding now if they would like to mediate with usfingers crossed
bret"

So it seems like it is in process, and not a done deal just yet. I'm sure we'll find out pretty soon if there is an agenda item for the May 14the planning commission meeting. There is no published agenda just yet.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

What could you possibly know about what "happens to be/not be TRUE?!" Unlike Andrea Cullinen, you weren't part of anything that happened when it actually happened. Andrea was ON THAT BOARD. My god! You make me LOL :-) You only know what you've been told. You are hardly qualified to set any record straight here. I must say, your self-appointed authority and sense of self in this situation is amusing. A member of Slow Food Russian River does not an authority make, my friend. I've never even met you lady... how can you possibly claim to know what I know?! OMG...:-D!

(Furthermore, Ms. Shatkin, this is not the appropriate place to attack me if that's what you want to do. Barry created a whole other thread for that called "Nancy and the Sebastopol Farmers Market." Barry, would you be so kind to remove this AND Ms. Shatkin's post to the APPROPRIATE thread. Remember, this thread is not suppose to be about Nancy, it's a place to discuss the Sebastopol Farm Market!)


It happens to be not true that the Gleason Ranch folks were terminated from the markets in an act of retaliation. The termination was a decision by the Board, not by Paula, and the reasons were many and varied. Nancy knows this. It is to Paula and the Board's credit that these reasons have not been slung around during this miserable struggle.

[scamperwillow]

I now have official word that the Farm Market item scheduled for the May 14th Planning Commission mtg has been postponed. Stay tuned to see if it comes up again.


'm sure we'll find out pretty soon if there is an agenda item for the May 14the planning commission meeting. There is no published agenda just yet.

[peggykarp]

This is from the Planning Commission's online agenda (Caps in the original).

https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/events-and-meetings/pc_agenda_05.14.13.pdf

A. USE PERMIT - (2013-21) - This is an application, submitted by Barney Aldridge, for Use Permit approval to allow operation of a farmers’ market on the Barlow property.... The Barlow Farmers’ Market is proposed to operate year-round on Sunday mornings and Thursday evenings.
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED AND WILL NOT BE HEARD AT THIS TIME.

B. TEMPORARY USE PERMIT - (2013 -34) - This is an application, submitted by Paula Downing, representing the Sebastopol Farmers’s Market, for Temporary Use Permit approval to allow operation of a farmers’ market on the Town Plaza property ... on Thursday afternoon/evenings. The market is proposed to operate June through September....
THIS ITEM HAS BEEN CONTINUED AND WILL NOT BE HEARD AT THIS TIME.



I'm sure we'll find out pretty soon if there is an agenda item for the May 14the planning commission meeting. There is no published agenda just yet.

[Ellen Roberts]

This message is posted on behalf of the Sebastopol Farm Market board.

Barlow and Thursday Night Market Update

• THE SEBASTOPOL PLANNING COMMISSION WILL NOTHAVE FARM MARKET APPLICATIONS ON THE MAY 14 AGENDA!!!

• On May 9the Barlow informed the Sebastopol Farm Market(SFM) that they had postponed their use permit application for a Farmers Market at the Barlow and concurrently requested a new dialogue with the SFM.

• In the spirit of community and cooperation, the SFM Board has agreed to create a committee representing the SFM to conduct discussions with the Barlow and a few of their tenants, through a neutral mediator, to explore ideas for a direction forward that is most positive for the community, the local food system, and the Sebastopol Farm Market member cooperative.

• Per the suggestion of the city, the Sebastopol Farm Market board has postponed the Temporary Use Permit application for a Thursday Night Market until the outcome of mediated discussions with the Barlow is complete.

• THE ABOVE MENTIONED FARM MARKET APPLICATIONS WILL NOT BE ON THE AGENDA AT THE MAY 14 SEBASTOPOL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING

• Updates will be posted on the SFM website every Monday starting May 20.

As always, the Sebastopol Farm Market will be guided by, and work hard to maintain a thriving Farm Market that balances what is best for the local community, the local food system, and the Sebastopol Farm Market member cooperative.

[Nancy M Prebilich]

What is this "Sebastopol Farm Market member cooperative" you speak of?! Is it another made up entity does doesn't really exist but sounds good? Is it code for the "Board of Directors" of SFM, that's really just a committee serving at the will of Sonoma County Certified Farmers Market Association? Does it mean the vendors that currently enjoy a secured space at the market, but not the ones prevented access, whether by managerial bias or space limitation- who exactly is this new entity you have just named for the first time??

Read the Bylaws, Sections V.(A) and V.(B). This organization has no "members."



• In the spirit of community and cooperation, the SFM Board has agreed to create a committee representing the SFM to conduct discussions with the Barlow and a few of their tenants, through a neutral mediator, to explore ideas for a direction forward that is most positive for the community, the local food system, and the Sebastopol Farm Market member cooperative....As always, the Sebastopol Farm Market will be guided by, and work hard to maintain a thriving Farm Market that balances what is best for the local community, the local food system, and the Sebastopol Farm Market member cooperative.

[sebastacat]

Sebastacat finds this encouraging.

Hats off to Barney and the powers-that-be over at the Barlow for taking the numerous concerns of our community seriously and for their willingness to engage in meaningful dialogue in an attempt to set aside the derision and consternation which ensued following the Barlow's announcement over a month ago to hold a competing Sunday farmers market.

Now let's have successful markets from which the citizens of Sebastopol, the numerous out-of-town visitors and the dedicated, hard-working farmers and vendors will benefit that will continue to celebrate that special quality which continues to be our town's greatest strength and biggest draw: our wonderful sense of community.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[Barry]

[The Barlow posted the following letter on their Facebook page:]

The Barlow and the Sebastopol Farmer's Market agree to meet and again discuss possibilities of collaboration. Read our letter below for more:

To Our Local Community,

Before hard hats, excavators or a single signed lease, The Barlow was encouraged by the community to grow into a creative campus offering local artisans the opportunity to thrive by showcasing their goods and building lasting connections with their consumers. With the support and direction of the local community, The Barlow adopted a mission “to create and maintain a well-planned, organic environment for the community to conduct business, share food and enjoy art, wine and time together.”

This mission could extend further by including a year-round Outdoor Market.

Since its inception, many talented local farmers and artisan producers have approached The Barlow in hopes of finding a “home” in Sebastopol. These producers, not yet in a position to invest in “brick and mortar” establishments, and unable to secure space in the Sebastopol town square on Sundays, are left with nowhere to go in the city they love. As the vision of The Barlow Outdoor Market progressed, these farmers and producers felt assured their dreams of selling in their hometown might finally become a reality.

To that end, The Barlow applied for a use permit with the City of Sebastopol to allow for an Outdoor Market to be held within The Barlow campus on Sunday mornings and Thursday evenings.

However, we have decided to postpone the permit application process to allow time for a peaceful dialogue and to bring the attention back to supporting healthy growth and fair opportunities for our local farmers and artisan producers.

With open minds and encouragement from neighbors, both The Barlow and Sebastopol Farmer’s Market have agreed to meet, along with a neutral third party, to again discuss the possibilities of collaboration.

It’s an honor to be part of this community that cares so much to provide their opinions and hopes for Sebastopol. Thank you for keeping your hearts open. We are more powerful together than we ever could be apart.

The Barlow

[Esther Shain]

Will there be solar panels at The Barlow? How many/how much power will be from solar or alternative energy. I was told there will be a car charging station.
This may be the wrong thread for this question.