oldrose
06-22-2006, 02:28 PM
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
Teresa
Teresa
View Full Version : Sudden oak die off
broadbandersnatch
06-22-2006, 09:19 PM
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
TeresaI lost a beautiful old oak on my property, the 2nd in 5 years. Maybe they were juist old. I don't know.
Brian :dunno:
TeresaI lost a beautiful old oak on my property, the 2nd in 5 years. Maybe they were juist old. I don't know.
Brian :dunno:
nonybird
06-23-2006, 08:31 AM
We've lost about four trees, all at one time about two months ago. A neighbor told me it was sudden oak death. We're in the Tilton/Wagnon area of Sebastopol.
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
Teresa
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
Teresa
occihoff
06-23-2006, 02:58 PM
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
TeresaI live along Bittner Road, and yes, a lot of tan oaks are dying due to Sudden Oak Death. Some bay trees are also affected. In the West County Gazette of June 15 - July 6, Pamela Bernier writes in her column, Our Town, Occidental, of a (possible) remedy which she is using on a huge old tan oak, the main reason she fell in love with her property. If you don't have access to her column, perhaps she would email it to you: [email protected].
We have too many affected trees on our land and couldn't afford this. Our hope is that the die-off will pass with some of the tan oaks recovering. This is yet another wake-up call. It's possible that the fungus, Phytophthora Ramorum, would never have affected the trees in such a plague-like way had there not been a weakening of their immune system from factors such as acid rain and fog. I am worried about a possible decline in health of the redwoods.
Margaret Gerner
TeresaI live along Bittner Road, and yes, a lot of tan oaks are dying due to Sudden Oak Death. Some bay trees are also affected. In the West County Gazette of June 15 - July 6, Pamela Bernier writes in her column, Our Town, Occidental, of a (possible) remedy which she is using on a huge old tan oak, the main reason she fell in love with her property. If you don't have access to her column, perhaps she would email it to you: [email protected].
We have too many affected trees on our land and couldn't afford this. Our hope is that the die-off will pass with some of the tan oaks recovering. This is yet another wake-up call. It's possible that the fungus, Phytophthora Ramorum, would never have affected the trees in such a plague-like way had there not been a weakening of their immune system from factors such as acid rain and fog. I am worried about a possible decline in health of the redwoods.
Margaret Gerner
Jack
06-23-2006, 10:00 PM
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
TeresaThere is good news about treating trees infected with this disease. I met this scientist at the Health and Harmony fair. His name is Lee Klinger. He doesn't seem to have a website that I can find, but his phone number is 831-917-7070. He claims to have brought back to good health the majority of trees that he treats with a treatment and special nutrients. There are websites where these materials are available. They are www.azomite.com (https://www.azomite.com)
and www.arboright.com (https://www.arboright.com). This man seems to really know what he's talking about with many documented cases. Anyway, I'm doing it where ever I can.
It's an even better preventative. Spread the word!!
Jack
TeresaThere is good news about treating trees infected with this disease. I met this scientist at the Health and Harmony fair. His name is Lee Klinger. He doesn't seem to have a website that I can find, but his phone number is 831-917-7070. He claims to have brought back to good health the majority of trees that he treats with a treatment and special nutrients. There are websites where these materials are available. They are www.azomite.com (https://www.azomite.com)
and www.arboright.com (https://www.arboright.com). This man seems to really know what he's talking about with many documented cases. Anyway, I'm doing it where ever I can.
It's an even better preventative. Spread the word!!
Jack
oldrose
06-24-2006, 07:25 AM
Thanks Jack, I'll get on it. The scene across the valley from me is daily changing from a health canopy to a brown one. I will make the effort to save the trees that I can too.
Teresa
There is good news about treating trees infected with this disease. I met this scientist at the Health and Harmony fair. His name is Lee Klinger. He doesn't seem to have a website that I can find, but his phone number is 831-917-7070. He claims to have brought back to good health the majority of trees that he treats with a treatment and special nutrients. There are websites where these materials are available. They are www.azomite.com (https://www.azomite.com/)
and www.arboright.com (https://www.arboright.com/). This man seems to really know what he's talking about with many documented cases. Anyway, I'm doing it where ever I can.
It's an even better preventative. Spread the word!!
Jack
Teresa
There is good news about treating trees infected with this disease. I met this scientist at the Health and Harmony fair. His name is Lee Klinger. He doesn't seem to have a website that I can find, but his phone number is 831-917-7070. He claims to have brought back to good health the majority of trees that he treats with a treatment and special nutrients. There are websites where these materials are available. They are www.azomite.com (https://www.azomite.com/)
and www.arboright.com (https://www.arboright.com/). This man seems to really know what he's talking about with many documented cases. Anyway, I'm doing it where ever I can.
It's an even better preventative. Spread the word!!
Jack
Treasure
06-24-2006, 08:08 AM
When I read about the alarming incidence of tree death in our area, I called Dr. Lee Klinger, who is having much success at saving dying trees. He just told me that people with dying trees can start them on the road to recovery by immediately apply azomite soil sweetener. Harmony Farms in Sebastopol has it.
Here's an excerpt from a previous interview with Lee: "Hundreds of thousands of trees that are currently weak or dying in California and other states and other countries don't really have a disease at all. For these trees, and also for many that do have diseases, the real problem is excessive acidity, caused by a lack of proper care and a great need for nutrients. "
For more info, see https://www.suddenoaklife.org (https://www.suddenoaklife.org/) and/or contact Lee Klinger: (831) 917-7070; [email protected].
Tara Treasurefield
Here's an excerpt from a previous interview with Lee: "Hundreds of thousands of trees that are currently weak or dying in California and other states and other countries don't really have a disease at all. For these trees, and also for many that do have diseases, the real problem is excessive acidity, caused by a lack of proper care and a great need for nutrients. "
For more info, see https://www.suddenoaklife.org (https://www.suddenoaklife.org/) and/or contact Lee Klinger: (831) 917-7070; [email protected].
Tara Treasurefield
Evalena Rose
06-24-2006, 06:16 PM
I wrote Pamela Bernier mentioned as having written about a remedy and got this response, her article, and her permission to share them. How wonderful we have a chance to save our trees. May the information make a difference so that we magically reclaim our trees. Blessed Be. Evalena
Pamela Bernier wrote:
Would love the word to get out that there IS a cure out there that is environmentally conscious (basically just nourishing the trees in our ultra stressed biological climate)-
in short............
you need to add a tremendous amount of oyster shell calcium to the soil at the drip-line area of the tree ($7.00 a 50 lb bag at Harmony Farm Supply in Sebastopol; my massive 300+ year old tree took 40 bags!).
In conjunction with the calcium, you need to spray the bark of the tree with a phosphite solution, called Agri-Fos (available at a company in Petaluma called Bioscape), and, or, in the case of tan oaks, inject the solution into the tree as well. I'll attach a copy of my article which gives you the basic information on this, as well as some good website resources.
Another good website is www.suddenoaklife.org (https://www.suddenoaklife.org/)
Best of luck with your tree. Mine has shown dramatic improvement...it's a near miralce!
best,
pamela
Our Town, Occidental
June, 2006
<o:p> </o:p>Sudden. Oak. Death. It’s arrived…..the dread disease that’s leaving our forests, hillsides, and properties looking browned and blight ravaged. Here in pristine Occidental, it looks as if some rogue military experiment went awry, and Agent Orange has been liberally spread across our hills and canyons. Nowhere can you drive or hike or bike without bearing witness to our forests of tan oaks dying by the masses.
<o:p> </o:p>I personally carry an intimate dread of SOD. I live up on a ridge west of Occidental, and bought this land some years ago, near entirely for a tree. An ancient, multi-century, gigantic, gnarled, elephantine Tan Oak, with branches larger than the trunks of most redwoods, and a trunk, if hollowed, you could almost drive a VW through. The tree sits at the top of a meadow, over-looking the <st1:place w:st="on">Pacific Ocean</st1:place>. It’s positively regal in its aspect, lordly and wise, and yes, I’m waxing anthropomorphic, but truly, to see this tree is to be humbled in the presence of a living thing that has been thriving long, long before white people came to these hills.
<o:p> </o:p>I committed my soul to this tree knowing the threat was out there. SOD, first identified in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Marin</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> in 1995, was moving northward, slowly, inexorably, like lava taking it’s sweet but catastrophic time. The disease is found in 14 coastal communities in <st1:State w:st="on">California</st1:State>, and <st1:State w:st="on">Oregon</st1:State>, has been identified in <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">New York</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType>, and throughout <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place>. I was warned by horticulturist friends not to buy the property for the tree. It was doomed, they said. Just a matter of time before it looked like just so much blighted kindling. But, as love is often no more than a resolute deferring of truth, I bought the land, and started counting minutes. Day after day, I’d sidle up to the tree, inspect the tractor-tire like folds of its trunk for the tell-tale cankers. I’d peer into the immense cloud-like canopy for signs of blighted leaves. Month after month, all was clear. The tree exuded health. I started thinking maybe I’d dodged that bullet, that maybe this ancient, Herculean tree had survived so much, it could beat anything.
<o:p> </o:p>And then came the spring of 2006. It seems the intense rains have given way to an all out attack of the blight. It’s everywhere, suddenly, all at once. No modest, tepid spread, but rather a ubiquitous, flaming explosion across <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">West</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>. Terrified, I began contacting anyone who knew anything about trees. Repeatedly, I was told nothing could be done. The suspect pathogen, a fungus called Phytophthora Ramorum, which is believed to girdle and kill the tree through cankers surrounding the trunk, was still under study, and no known cure existed.
<o:p> </o:p>I could barely bring myself to look at the tree, so fearful was I of seeing that first browned leaf and bleeding canker. But look I did, and last week, there it was. Finally, after the long and dreaded wait, SOD had arrived, and begun grappling with this venerable giant. Shocked into action, I hit every SOD website on the internet. Many repeated what I had long been hearing; nothing to be done but watch the devastation and remove the dead tress in the hopes of slowing the spread.
However. There is a once fringe, rapidly becoming mainstream contingent that feels there may be a cure….
<o:p> </o:p>Based on the initial research of a local forest ecologist, studies are now showing positive results with a combination therapy treatment of adding calcium to the soil, and applying a phosphite solution to the bark of a tree (and, in the case of tan oaks, actual injection of the phosphite solution). This therapy is based on the premise that the Phytophthora Ramorum is merely an opportunistic secondary infection, cased by an over-all weakening of a tree’s immune system due to increased soil acidity. Acid rain and fog, as well as mosses, are the culprits in the increased soil acidification, which, in turn, destroys root mass, and stresses a tree’s immune system so it can no longer protect itself from one-time mundane pathogens. Interestingly enough, the applied phosphite solution doesn’t directly effect Phytophthora Ramorum, it just enhances the immune system of the tree, so it can fight off the disease.
<o:p> </o:p>
The phosphite solution, ‘Agri-Phos’, made by an Australian company, (NOT cheap at $150 per 2.5 gallon container) is available through several websites (locally, try Bioscape.com, in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Petaluma</st1:place></st1:City>). The solution is sprayed on the trunk in combination with a penetrant, ‘Penta-Bark’, and or injected into the tree every six months to a year, and is best applied before, or during the early stages of an infection. Oyster shell calcium, in staggering quantities (my tree took a TON) is relatively inexpensive, and can be found at most nurseries. This is applied directly to the soil beneath the drip-line of the tree. Apply and wait. The treatment has been approved for use since late 2003, and results are promising. Treated early in an infection, trees have shown dramatic improvement within six weeks.<o:p>
</o:p>
I went for it, hook, line, and credit card. Snake oil, or salvation? I don’t know, or even, oddly, care. I HAD to do something. Native Americans used to whitewash oak trees with mineralized salt, hydrated lime, crushed oyster shells and water, and spread trace minerals and oyster shells beneath the trees to help protect them from disease and pests. So maybe some of the theory isn’t new, just borrowed from a people who knew far better than us how to live in balance with an environment.
No guarantee, oak tree fans, just hope. I’ve listed below a number of websites that contain good information about this disease, and its treatment. For those with cherished oaks, it’s WELL worth the research.
<o:p> </o:p>www.cemarin.ucdavis.edu/index2.html (https://www.cemarin.ucdavis.edu/index2.html)
www. suddenoakdeath.org
www.apsnet.org/online/sod/ (https://www.apsnet.org/online/sod/)
(and of course, you can google ‘sudden oak death’ and get many, many more)
occihoff @ WaccoBB wrote:
Category: General Community
Thread: Sudden oak die off
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Teresa wrote:
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?images/NewSmilies/tear.gif
Teresa
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
I live along Bittner Road, and yes, a lot of tan oaks are dying due to Sudden Oak Death. Some bay trees are also affected. In the West County Gazette of June 15 - July 6, Pamela Bernier writes in her column, Our Town, Occidental, of a (possible) remedy which she is using on a huge old tan oak, the main reason she fell in love with her property. If you don't have access to her column, perhaps she would email it to you: [email protected].
We have too many affected trees on our land and couldn't afford this. Our hope is that the die-off will pass with some of the tan oaks recovering. This is yet another wake-up call. It's possible that the fungus, Phytophthora Ramorum, would never have affected the trees in such a plague-like way had there not been a weakening of their immune system from factors such as acid rain and fog. I am worried about a possible decline in health of the redwoods.
Margaret Gerner
Pamela Bernier wrote:
Would love the word to get out that there IS a cure out there that is environmentally conscious (basically just nourishing the trees in our ultra stressed biological climate)-
in short............
you need to add a tremendous amount of oyster shell calcium to the soil at the drip-line area of the tree ($7.00 a 50 lb bag at Harmony Farm Supply in Sebastopol; my massive 300+ year old tree took 40 bags!).
In conjunction with the calcium, you need to spray the bark of the tree with a phosphite solution, called Agri-Fos (available at a company in Petaluma called Bioscape), and, or, in the case of tan oaks, inject the solution into the tree as well. I'll attach a copy of my article which gives you the basic information on this, as well as some good website resources.
Another good website is www.suddenoaklife.org (https://www.suddenoaklife.org/)
Best of luck with your tree. Mine has shown dramatic improvement...it's a near miralce!
best,
pamela
Our Town, Occidental
June, 2006
<o:p> </o:p>Sudden. Oak. Death. It’s arrived…..the dread disease that’s leaving our forests, hillsides, and properties looking browned and blight ravaged. Here in pristine Occidental, it looks as if some rogue military experiment went awry, and Agent Orange has been liberally spread across our hills and canyons. Nowhere can you drive or hike or bike without bearing witness to our forests of tan oaks dying by the masses.
<o:p> </o:p>I personally carry an intimate dread of SOD. I live up on a ridge west of Occidental, and bought this land some years ago, near entirely for a tree. An ancient, multi-century, gigantic, gnarled, elephantine Tan Oak, with branches larger than the trunks of most redwoods, and a trunk, if hollowed, you could almost drive a VW through. The tree sits at the top of a meadow, over-looking the <st1:place w:st="on">Pacific Ocean</st1:place>. It’s positively regal in its aspect, lordly and wise, and yes, I’m waxing anthropomorphic, but truly, to see this tree is to be humbled in the presence of a living thing that has been thriving long, long before white people came to these hills.
<o:p> </o:p>I committed my soul to this tree knowing the threat was out there. SOD, first identified in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Marin</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> in 1995, was moving northward, slowly, inexorably, like lava taking it’s sweet but catastrophic time. The disease is found in 14 coastal communities in <st1:State w:st="on">California</st1:State>, and <st1:State w:st="on">Oregon</st1:State>, has been identified in <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">New York</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType>, and throughout <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place>. I was warned by horticulturist friends not to buy the property for the tree. It was doomed, they said. Just a matter of time before it looked like just so much blighted kindling. But, as love is often no more than a resolute deferring of truth, I bought the land, and started counting minutes. Day after day, I’d sidle up to the tree, inspect the tractor-tire like folds of its trunk for the tell-tale cankers. I’d peer into the immense cloud-like canopy for signs of blighted leaves. Month after month, all was clear. The tree exuded health. I started thinking maybe I’d dodged that bullet, that maybe this ancient, Herculean tree had survived so much, it could beat anything.
<o:p> </o:p>And then came the spring of 2006. It seems the intense rains have given way to an all out attack of the blight. It’s everywhere, suddenly, all at once. No modest, tepid spread, but rather a ubiquitous, flaming explosion across <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">West</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>. Terrified, I began contacting anyone who knew anything about trees. Repeatedly, I was told nothing could be done. The suspect pathogen, a fungus called Phytophthora Ramorum, which is believed to girdle and kill the tree through cankers surrounding the trunk, was still under study, and no known cure existed.
<o:p> </o:p>I could barely bring myself to look at the tree, so fearful was I of seeing that first browned leaf and bleeding canker. But look I did, and last week, there it was. Finally, after the long and dreaded wait, SOD had arrived, and begun grappling with this venerable giant. Shocked into action, I hit every SOD website on the internet. Many repeated what I had long been hearing; nothing to be done but watch the devastation and remove the dead tress in the hopes of slowing the spread.
However. There is a once fringe, rapidly becoming mainstream contingent that feels there may be a cure….
<o:p> </o:p>Based on the initial research of a local forest ecologist, studies are now showing positive results with a combination therapy treatment of adding calcium to the soil, and applying a phosphite solution to the bark of a tree (and, in the case of tan oaks, actual injection of the phosphite solution). This therapy is based on the premise that the Phytophthora Ramorum is merely an opportunistic secondary infection, cased by an over-all weakening of a tree’s immune system due to increased soil acidity. Acid rain and fog, as well as mosses, are the culprits in the increased soil acidification, which, in turn, destroys root mass, and stresses a tree’s immune system so it can no longer protect itself from one-time mundane pathogens. Interestingly enough, the applied phosphite solution doesn’t directly effect Phytophthora Ramorum, it just enhances the immune system of the tree, so it can fight off the disease.
<o:p> </o:p>
The phosphite solution, ‘Agri-Phos’, made by an Australian company, (NOT cheap at $150 per 2.5 gallon container) is available through several websites (locally, try Bioscape.com, in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Petaluma</st1:place></st1:City>). The solution is sprayed on the trunk in combination with a penetrant, ‘Penta-Bark’, and or injected into the tree every six months to a year, and is best applied before, or during the early stages of an infection. Oyster shell calcium, in staggering quantities (my tree took a TON) is relatively inexpensive, and can be found at most nurseries. This is applied directly to the soil beneath the drip-line of the tree. Apply and wait. The treatment has been approved for use since late 2003, and results are promising. Treated early in an infection, trees have shown dramatic improvement within six weeks.<o:p>
</o:p>
I went for it, hook, line, and credit card. Snake oil, or salvation? I don’t know, or even, oddly, care. I HAD to do something. Native Americans used to whitewash oak trees with mineralized salt, hydrated lime, crushed oyster shells and water, and spread trace minerals and oyster shells beneath the trees to help protect them from disease and pests. So maybe some of the theory isn’t new, just borrowed from a people who knew far better than us how to live in balance with an environment.
No guarantee, oak tree fans, just hope. I’ve listed below a number of websites that contain good information about this disease, and its treatment. For those with cherished oaks, it’s WELL worth the research.
<o:p> </o:p>www.cemarin.ucdavis.edu/index2.html (https://www.cemarin.ucdavis.edu/index2.html)
www. suddenoakdeath.org
www.apsnet.org/online/sod/ (https://www.apsnet.org/online/sod/)
(and of course, you can google ‘sudden oak death’ and get many, many more)
occihoff @ WaccoBB wrote:
Category: General Community
Thread: Sudden oak die off
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Teresa wrote:
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?images/NewSmilies/tear.gif
Teresa
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
I live along Bittner Road, and yes, a lot of tan oaks are dying due to Sudden Oak Death. Some bay trees are also affected. In the West County Gazette of June 15 - July 6, Pamela Bernier writes in her column, Our Town, Occidental, of a (possible) remedy which she is using on a huge old tan oak, the main reason she fell in love with her property. If you don't have access to her column, perhaps she would email it to you: [email protected].
We have too many affected trees on our land and couldn't afford this. Our hope is that the die-off will pass with some of the tan oaks recovering. This is yet another wake-up call. It's possible that the fungus, Phytophthora Ramorum, would never have affected the trees in such a plague-like way had there not been a weakening of their immune system from factors such as acid rain and fog. I am worried about a possible decline in health of the redwoods.
Margaret Gerner
pbernier
06-24-2006, 08:32 PM
Jack-
Lee Klinger does have a website; the address is www.suddenoaklife.org (https://www.suddenoaklife.org)
very positive information there!
keep the word going; these trees do NOT have to die....!!!
There is good news about treating trees infected with this disease. I met this scientist at the Health and Harmony fair. His name is Lee Klinger. He doesn't seem to have a website that I can find, but his phone number is 831-917-7070. He claims to have brought back to good health the majority of trees that he treats with a treatment and special nutrients. There are websites where these materials are available. They are www.azomite.com (https://www.azomite.com/)
and www.arboright.com (https://www.arboright.com/). This man seems to really know what he's talking about with many documented cases. Anyway, I'm doing it where ever I can.
It's an even better preventative. Spread the word!!
Jack
Lee Klinger does have a website; the address is www.suddenoaklife.org (https://www.suddenoaklife.org)
very positive information there!
keep the word going; these trees do NOT have to die....!!!
There is good news about treating trees infected with this disease. I met this scientist at the Health and Harmony fair. His name is Lee Klinger. He doesn't seem to have a website that I can find, but his phone number is 831-917-7070. He claims to have brought back to good health the majority of trees that he treats with a treatment and special nutrients. There are websites where these materials are available. They are www.azomite.com (https://www.azomite.com/)
and www.arboright.com (https://www.arboright.com/). This man seems to really know what he's talking about with many documented cases. Anyway, I'm doing it where ever I can.
It's an even better preventative. Spread the word!!
Jack
Treasure
06-25-2006, 01:29 PM
For those of you who would like to know more about Lee Klinger's work with dying trees, here's a link to one of my articles.
https://www.sonic.net/~treasure/root.html (https://www.sonic.net/%7Etreasure/root.html)
Also, when I spoke with him yesterday, he said that he now stresses treating the soil around the trees instead of whitewashing the trunks.
Tara
https://www.sonic.net/~treasure/root.html (https://www.sonic.net/%7Etreasure/root.html)
Also, when I spoke with him yesterday, he said that he now stresses treating the soil around the trees instead of whitewashing the trunks.
Tara
moonrise
06-27-2006, 09:06 AM
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
Teresa
Yeah it is :(
We have it here on the hill between Silala and Jonive (near hwy 12)
Lost one huge old black oak before it leafed out and I was hoping it was *just* from the unmitigated runnoff (from the land scraping, grapes and building up hill that continues) and the huge rainfall the cut new ravines and cracks in the hillside up behind our trailer. But then tanoaks showed signs of it. I see them dying off in huge numbers all over from Joy Rd. Joy Ridge, etc. Travel over Bay Hill Road and even Coleman Valley Road where there are near birds eye views and the scene of so much brown dead trees is alarming. Also from Joy Woods and Pagin Hill.
I had thought that if there was sudden oak death in an area that there was supposed to be some kind of warnings posted and limits on removal of trees? Armstrong Woods has had warnings of Sudden Oak Death posted a few years now - just out of courtesy? I am nearly going crazy from the 2nd week of the sound of chainsaws buzzing, trees craching and crashing to the ground and heavy equipment rumbling - distant but not so distant! Off highway 12 there about 500+/- yards west of Wagnon on the north side there is a now huge area that's been cleared off - LOTS of douglas fir, tanoak, bay have been cleared and hauled off. The neatly trimmed doug fir logs suitable for lumber stacked waiting for a truck. Now the chainsaws, etc. are back at at it again this morning. There's no good place to pull off and look closer without risking a wreck with other traffic on 12.
Why the heck is it so hard to understand (by those *in charge* that it takes more than a few trees to make a healthy forest ecosystem that won't be so vulnerable to wind, runnoff and disease? I feel so upset by this - it's a double whammy.
I had thought the blackoaks would be ok but there are some brown leaves so heading for Harmony to see what will help.
Thanks for all for the info and resources!
-Dorothy
Teresa
Yeah it is :(
We have it here on the hill between Silala and Jonive (near hwy 12)
Lost one huge old black oak before it leafed out and I was hoping it was *just* from the unmitigated runnoff (from the land scraping, grapes and building up hill that continues) and the huge rainfall the cut new ravines and cracks in the hillside up behind our trailer. But then tanoaks showed signs of it. I see them dying off in huge numbers all over from Joy Rd. Joy Ridge, etc. Travel over Bay Hill Road and even Coleman Valley Road where there are near birds eye views and the scene of so much brown dead trees is alarming. Also from Joy Woods and Pagin Hill.
I had thought that if there was sudden oak death in an area that there was supposed to be some kind of warnings posted and limits on removal of trees? Armstrong Woods has had warnings of Sudden Oak Death posted a few years now - just out of courtesy? I am nearly going crazy from the 2nd week of the sound of chainsaws buzzing, trees craching and crashing to the ground and heavy equipment rumbling - distant but not so distant! Off highway 12 there about 500+/- yards west of Wagnon on the north side there is a now huge area that's been cleared off - LOTS of douglas fir, tanoak, bay have been cleared and hauled off. The neatly trimmed doug fir logs suitable for lumber stacked waiting for a truck. Now the chainsaws, etc. are back at at it again this morning. There's no good place to pull off and look closer without risking a wreck with other traffic on 12.
Why the heck is it so hard to understand (by those *in charge* that it takes more than a few trees to make a healthy forest ecosystem that won't be so vulnerable to wind, runnoff and disease? I feel so upset by this - it's a double whammy.
I had thought the blackoaks would be ok but there are some brown leaves so heading for Harmony to see what will help.
Thanks for all for the info and resources!
-Dorothy
oldrose
06-27-2006, 09:54 AM
Hi Dorothy,
I so agree. I wish there was some help from forestery for the materials that are needed but I know that help to eradicate this infeststion is not going to come from the government, too busy with spending our $ on war.I understand there is now a disease that is attacking the ash trees back east. Soon we will have no trees left. I counted 28 trees across the ridge from me that are in the die -off stage. We can only save one tree at a time and I can only afford to work to save the trees on my property. Thanks to the whole community for all of the infomation they have sent about this problem , I feel more empowered to make a small change.
Teresa :bgrphug:
Yeah it is :(
We have it here on the hill between Silala and Jonive (near hwy 12)
Lost one huge old black oak before it leafed out and I was hoping it was *just* from the unmitigated runnoff (from the land scraping, grapes and building up hill that continues) and the huge rainfall the cut new ravines and cracks in the hillside up behind our trailer. But then tanoaks showed signs of it. I see them dying off in huge numbers all over from Joy Rd. Joy Ridge, etc. Travel over Bay Hill Road and even Coleman Valley Road where there are near birds eye views and the scene of so much brown dead trees is alarming. Also from Joy Woods and Pagin Hill.
I had thought that if there was sudden oak death in an area that there was supposed to be some kind of warnings posted and limits on removal of trees? Armstrong Woods has had warnings of Sudden Oak Death posted a few years now - just out of courtesy? I am nearly going crazy from the 2nd week of the sound of chainsaws buzzing, trees craching and crashing to the ground and heavy equipment rumbling - distant but not so distant! Off highway 12 there about 500+/- yards west of Wagnon on the north side there is a now huge area that's been cleared off - LOTS of douglas fir, tanoak, bay have been cleared and hauled off. The neatly trimmed doug fir logs suitable for lumber stacked waiting for a truck. Now the chainsaws, etc. are back at at it again this morning. There's no good place to pull off and look closer without risking a wreck with other traffic on 12.
Why the heck is it so hard to understand (by those *in charge* that it takes more than a few trees to make a healthy forest ecosystem that won't be so vulnerable to wind, runnoff and disease? I feel so upset by this - it's a double whammy.
I had thought the blackoaks would be ok but there are some brown leaves so heading for Harmony to see what will help.
Thanks for all for the info and resources!
-Dorothy
I so agree. I wish there was some help from forestery for the materials that are needed but I know that help to eradicate this infeststion is not going to come from the government, too busy with spending our $ on war.I understand there is now a disease that is attacking the ash trees back east. Soon we will have no trees left. I counted 28 trees across the ridge from me that are in the die -off stage. We can only save one tree at a time and I can only afford to work to save the trees on my property. Thanks to the whole community for all of the infomation they have sent about this problem , I feel more empowered to make a small change.
Teresa :bgrphug:
Yeah it is :(
We have it here on the hill between Silala and Jonive (near hwy 12)
Lost one huge old black oak before it leafed out and I was hoping it was *just* from the unmitigated runnoff (from the land scraping, grapes and building up hill that continues) and the huge rainfall the cut new ravines and cracks in the hillside up behind our trailer. But then tanoaks showed signs of it. I see them dying off in huge numbers all over from Joy Rd. Joy Ridge, etc. Travel over Bay Hill Road and even Coleman Valley Road where there are near birds eye views and the scene of so much brown dead trees is alarming. Also from Joy Woods and Pagin Hill.
I had thought that if there was sudden oak death in an area that there was supposed to be some kind of warnings posted and limits on removal of trees? Armstrong Woods has had warnings of Sudden Oak Death posted a few years now - just out of courtesy? I am nearly going crazy from the 2nd week of the sound of chainsaws buzzing, trees craching and crashing to the ground and heavy equipment rumbling - distant but not so distant! Off highway 12 there about 500+/- yards west of Wagnon on the north side there is a now huge area that's been cleared off - LOTS of douglas fir, tanoak, bay have been cleared and hauled off. The neatly trimmed doug fir logs suitable for lumber stacked waiting for a truck. Now the chainsaws, etc. are back at at it again this morning. There's no good place to pull off and look closer without risking a wreck with other traffic on 12.
Why the heck is it so hard to understand (by those *in charge* that it takes more than a few trees to make a healthy forest ecosystem that won't be so vulnerable to wind, runnoff and disease? I feel so upset by this - it's a double whammy.
I had thought the blackoaks would be ok but there are some brown leaves so heading for Harmony to see what will help.
Thanks for all for the info and resources!
-Dorothy
broadbandersnatch
06-27-2006, 08:26 PM
Has anyone else noticed a decrease in squirrel population? I used to have too many of those critters around my property. There was a friend's kid over from Hawaii wo had never seen a squirrel before. I tried to show him one and strangely, there were none to be seen. Anyone else notice this? and if so, could there be a connection to the oaks dying off?
Brian
Brian
Braggi
06-28-2006, 06:34 AM
Has anyone else noticed a decrease in squirrel population?
BrianYes, our squirrels are gone. I've lived here deep in the forest west of Healdsburg for ten years. We've never had a time when the chatter of the squirrels was quiet for long. Now it's quiet all the time.
I've got an even weirder one. We've always had rats. Not a great many, but always a few. I'd see the evidence from time to time and I could always trap one if I tried. Now there are none. Within the last two months they've all disappeared. I have a friend who lives on Mark West Springs Road and the same thing happened there. No rats. When has that ever happened in history?
The rats and the squirrels have a primary food source in common: acorns. Now I wonder if the wild turkeys and pigs will be next. Could it be the acorns are poisoned by the Sudden Oak Death?
-Jeff
BrianYes, our squirrels are gone. I've lived here deep in the forest west of Healdsburg for ten years. We've never had a time when the chatter of the squirrels was quiet for long. Now it's quiet all the time.
I've got an even weirder one. We've always had rats. Not a great many, but always a few. I'd see the evidence from time to time and I could always trap one if I tried. Now there are none. Within the last two months they've all disappeared. I have a friend who lives on Mark West Springs Road and the same thing happened there. No rats. When has that ever happened in history?
The rats and the squirrels have a primary food source in common: acorns. Now I wonder if the wild turkeys and pigs will be next. Could it be the acorns are poisoned by the Sudden Oak Death?
-Jeff
dladams
06-28-2006, 08:03 AM
I think they all moved into town. I live in downtown Santa Rosa, and we have so many squirrels (and rats) that they drive me nuts.
Has anyone else noticed a decrease in squirrel population? I used to have too many of those critters around my property. There was a friend's kid over from Hawaii wo had never seen a squirrel before. I tried to show him one and strangely, there were none to be seen. Anyone else notice this? and if so, could there be a connection to the oaks dying off?
Brian
Has anyone else noticed a decrease in squirrel population? I used to have too many of those critters around my property. There was a friend's kid over from Hawaii wo had never seen a squirrel before. I tried to show him one and strangely, there were none to be seen. Anyone else notice this? and if so, could there be a connection to the oaks dying off?
Brian
Ronaldo
06-28-2006, 09:44 AM
The Red Tail Hawks are rarely seen anymore as well. (No squirrels to eat)
Ron
Ron
Barry
06-28-2006, 10:47 AM
The Red Tail Hawks are rarely seen anymore as well. (No squirrels to eat)
RonI live next to the Laguna and I see tons of Red Tails! Don't see any squirrels, though.
RonI live next to the Laguna and I see tons of Red Tails! Don't see any squirrels, though.
moonrise
06-28-2006, 12:12 PM
We have plenty of squirrels and gophers and turkeys yet. Many animals depend on acorns, including deer, but not entirely. If there's concern that food is dwindling it can be supplemented - they do make things called "squirrel feeders"; there's a feed store out in east Santa Rosa that sells a grain mix for deer (formulated by the fawn rescue center). But as this is the first big wave and acorns are not an issue yet, I doubt the problem is SOD. I heard that there are raccoons attacking and eating domestic cats - reason their regular food supplies aren't yet ripe. We certainly don't have berries near ripe yet and some even still flowering - when usually by July we'd have berry pie for the 4th. Raccoons also eat squirrels, rats, whatever they can get their hands on. If food is scarce, any animal will do what it can to survive. Out here the very visable cause of squirrel casualties appears to be cars :(
-Dorothy
Yes, our squirrels are gone. I've lived here deep in the forest west of Healdsburg for ten years. We've never had a time when the chatter of the squirrels was quiet for long. Now it's quiet all the time.
I've got an even weirder one. We've always had rats. Not a great many, but always a few. I'd see the evidence from time to time and I could always trap one if I tried. Now there are none. Within the last two months they've all disappeared. I have a friend who lives on Mark West Springs Road and the same thing happened there. No rats. When has that ever happened in history?
The rats and the squirrels have a primary food source in common: acorns. Now I wonder if the wild turkeys and pigs will be next. Could it be the acorns are poisoned by the Sudden Oak Death?
-Jeff
-Dorothy
Yes, our squirrels are gone. I've lived here deep in the forest west of Healdsburg for ten years. We've never had a time when the chatter of the squirrels was quiet for long. Now it's quiet all the time.
I've got an even weirder one. We've always had rats. Not a great many, but always a few. I'd see the evidence from time to time and I could always trap one if I tried. Now there are none. Within the last two months they've all disappeared. I have a friend who lives on Mark West Springs Road and the same thing happened there. No rats. When has that ever happened in history?
The rats and the squirrels have a primary food source in common: acorns. Now I wonder if the wild turkeys and pigs will be next. Could it be the acorns are poisoned by the Sudden Oak Death?
-Jeff
moonrise
06-28-2006, 12:32 PM
Ok, I contacted a lot of people yesterday to see what (if anything) is going on as far as organization about this problem. One office I contacted was the county Ag Comissioner and learned that there is a meeting set for this issue of SOD here July 11th in Guerneville....
He asked me to call him so I will and get permission to post the agenda and additional information here on Waccobb so everyone can be on board if they wish to.
Oh, and Barry, should we now, or soon, have a section for SOD in West County? And how do I manage .doc attachments - if I convert them to pdf will that suffice?
Thanks everyone. I know that government can't do it all but I'm hopeful if we do have the ear of those making decisions it could help some.
-Dorothy
He asked me to call him so I will and get permission to post the agenda and additional information here on Waccobb so everyone can be on board if they wish to.
Oh, and Barry, should we now, or soon, have a section for SOD in West County? And how do I manage .doc attachments - if I convert them to pdf will that suffice?
Thanks everyone. I know that government can't do it all but I'm hopeful if we do have the ear of those making decisions it could help some.
-Dorothy
Barry
06-28-2006, 01:08 PM
Ok, I contacted a lot of people yesterday to see what (if anything) is going on as far as organization about this problem. One office I contacted was the county Ag Comissioner and learned that there is a meeting set for this issue of SOD here July 11th in Guerneville....
He asked me to call him so I will and get permission to post the agenda and additional information here on Waccobb so everyone can be on board if they wish to.Fabulous!!!
Oh, and Barry, should we now, or soon, have a section for SOD in West County?For now I think it will benefit the effort t leave it here in General Community (with events going to the Events category). I welcome any and all posts on this topic. If there is a substantial number of threads and posts about SOD and its related issues I will be happy to split it off to its own category. Please continue to use this thread and you are welcome to start new threads if it is appropriate to have a separate announcement/discussion about a related topic.
And how do I manage .doc attachments - if I convert them to pdf will that suffice?Converting it to a .pdf is ideal. Then use the "Manage Attachments" button below the main posting form to attach it. Attachments are not sent out in the digest so please mention that there is an attachment available on the website in your post.
Thanks everyone. I know that government can't do it all but I'm hopeful if we do have the ear of those making decisions it could help some.
-DorothyThanks to you, Dorothy, and everybody else who has posted to this thread for all your work and sharing the information with our community!:thanks:
He asked me to call him so I will and get permission to post the agenda and additional information here on Waccobb so everyone can be on board if they wish to.Fabulous!!!
Oh, and Barry, should we now, or soon, have a section for SOD in West County?For now I think it will benefit the effort t leave it here in General Community (with events going to the Events category). I welcome any and all posts on this topic. If there is a substantial number of threads and posts about SOD and its related issues I will be happy to split it off to its own category. Please continue to use this thread and you are welcome to start new threads if it is appropriate to have a separate announcement/discussion about a related topic.
And how do I manage .doc attachments - if I convert them to pdf will that suffice?Converting it to a .pdf is ideal. Then use the "Manage Attachments" button below the main posting form to attach it. Attachments are not sent out in the digest so please mention that there is an attachment available on the website in your post.
Thanks everyone. I know that government can't do it all but I'm hopeful if we do have the ear of those making decisions it could help some.
-DorothyThanks to you, Dorothy, and everybody else who has posted to this thread for all your work and sharing the information with our community!:thanks:
moonrise
06-28-2006, 02:42 PM
This afternoon I had the pleasure of speaking with Stefan Parnay
Stefan Parnay
Chief Deputy Agricultural Commissioner
[email protected]
<>Sonoma County Ag. Commissioner's Office
133 Aviation Blvd., Suite 110
Santa Rosa, CA 95403</>
Telephone: 707-565-2371
Fax: 707-565-3850
https://www.sonoma-county.org/agcomm/
He was very helpful and easy to speak with. He grew up in Sebastopol and has been studying SOD in this area for many years, particularly in the Cazadero area. I asked permission to post some of the information here and he was eager to have as much community involvement and knowledge as possible. So here goes :)
SOD does affect tanoaks and even bay laurels, and the other oak species. There used to be one organism that was thought to be the culprit but there are now three varieties of the species identified. Not all act in the same way but they do act in some similar ways. The organisms are more like an algea than a fungus - difficult to classify. There are other diseases that can cause symptoms that look like SOD but it seems likely that this is what's going on. A definitive diagnosis however, for science concerns, is made by having samples sent to a lab. I didn't get the impression he thought this was necessary however and I offfered to go out and gather samples which he said would not be necessary.
Tanoaks are usually hit hardest, especially young trees. Bay Laurals can be too and they can also harbor the "spores" without showing signs of being infected. The die off rate for them usually varies from 10 to 90%, sometimes 40-50% and it's believed this is where genetics kicks in - trees with stronger genes (immunity) survive better than those with less immunity. So we could have waves of this passing through but at some point there will still be some immune trees left. Let's hope it's not just a few! By the time the brown leaves manifest in trees things have probably been happening for 2-3 years prior. Not all dead or drying trees will exhibit dead leaves at the onset - some present with the canker and weeping; some will have the dead leaves and no outward signs of canker, etc. It can affect Redwoods too but Redwoods usually do ok except for the young sapling Redwoods, which can die outright. Douglas Fir can also be affected with less resistence Redwoods.
As far as information he thought the website www.suddenoakdeath.org is the best for practical information about the disease, what's known about it, safe handling practices, and even known treatments that could help. There is a lot of informaiton on that site!
I shared Klinger's site with him which he looked over quickly as we talked. He thought it made sense, because it makes sense for any plant that the better it's nurished and taken care of the stronger it will be to resist attacks from disease, insects, etc. (This made sense to me as the same is true for any living thing, people included). He remarked about the name (suddenoaklife.org) as being a positive twist! He was not sure about the two companies that had been posted here but he shared with me information about a product called Agriphos which is available locally through Purity Products in Santa Rosa. He said it was not inexpensive, either. There have been studies that have shown that applying this to healthy trees (no sign of leave dieback or just a little bit of canker) does a remarkable job of helping the trees overcome the disease, he thought it is about 90%. This is practical for homeowners/renters who want to save particular trees but for large pieces of land... well it's a huge task and expense.
As far as practices of cultivation, pruning, logging, land clearing, etc. in areas of SOD there are no real regulations but there are guidelines - which are outlined at the www.suddenoakdeath.org site. Mainly they recommend cleanind and disenfecting tools and machinery on site before leaving for another site. Anyone with a gardener out here should be asking they do this before going to the next job (for those who can afford it!). I asked about the tree trimming for PG&E and he said they had given training to the service a few years ago and they should be following these safe practices.
I shared with him how last year when Davey Tree came and cut they shared three loads of woodchips (half are still piled and waiting to mulch new garden areas) and there was no mention of SOD. So maybe that's another thing to inquire about - if Davey Tree knows there is SOD here as the helicoptor and PG&E Engineers have been out surveying what needs to be trimmed and we should be seeing those green trucks out here soon.
I hope I covered most of what Stefan shared with me. He is a wealth of information and most eager to share it but there is SO much it was hard to write notes fast enough.
I converted the agenda for the SOD Meeting that will be held July 11 at 9AM in Guerneville to a pdf and will try to attach it and will post the name and email of the person to RSVP below:
Janice Alexander would be the person to contact if you're interested in attending the workshop. Her email address is: [email protected]
Ok, hope this helps. I got to run to town for an appt. now.
-Dorothy
Oh, if you are getting this in Digest form , the attachment is on the website :)
Stefan Parnay
Chief Deputy Agricultural Commissioner
[email protected]
<>Sonoma County Ag. Commissioner's Office
133 Aviation Blvd., Suite 110
Santa Rosa, CA 95403</>
Telephone: 707-565-2371
Fax: 707-565-3850
https://www.sonoma-county.org/agcomm/
He was very helpful and easy to speak with. He grew up in Sebastopol and has been studying SOD in this area for many years, particularly in the Cazadero area. I asked permission to post some of the information here and he was eager to have as much community involvement and knowledge as possible. So here goes :)
SOD does affect tanoaks and even bay laurels, and the other oak species. There used to be one organism that was thought to be the culprit but there are now three varieties of the species identified. Not all act in the same way but they do act in some similar ways. The organisms are more like an algea than a fungus - difficult to classify. There are other diseases that can cause symptoms that look like SOD but it seems likely that this is what's going on. A definitive diagnosis however, for science concerns, is made by having samples sent to a lab. I didn't get the impression he thought this was necessary however and I offfered to go out and gather samples which he said would not be necessary.
Tanoaks are usually hit hardest, especially young trees. Bay Laurals can be too and they can also harbor the "spores" without showing signs of being infected. The die off rate for them usually varies from 10 to 90%, sometimes 40-50% and it's believed this is where genetics kicks in - trees with stronger genes (immunity) survive better than those with less immunity. So we could have waves of this passing through but at some point there will still be some immune trees left. Let's hope it's not just a few! By the time the brown leaves manifest in trees things have probably been happening for 2-3 years prior. Not all dead or drying trees will exhibit dead leaves at the onset - some present with the canker and weeping; some will have the dead leaves and no outward signs of canker, etc. It can affect Redwoods too but Redwoods usually do ok except for the young sapling Redwoods, which can die outright. Douglas Fir can also be affected with less resistence Redwoods.
As far as information he thought the website www.suddenoakdeath.org is the best for practical information about the disease, what's known about it, safe handling practices, and even known treatments that could help. There is a lot of informaiton on that site!
I shared Klinger's site with him which he looked over quickly as we talked. He thought it made sense, because it makes sense for any plant that the better it's nurished and taken care of the stronger it will be to resist attacks from disease, insects, etc. (This made sense to me as the same is true for any living thing, people included). He remarked about the name (suddenoaklife.org) as being a positive twist! He was not sure about the two companies that had been posted here but he shared with me information about a product called Agriphos which is available locally through Purity Products in Santa Rosa. He said it was not inexpensive, either. There have been studies that have shown that applying this to healthy trees (no sign of leave dieback or just a little bit of canker) does a remarkable job of helping the trees overcome the disease, he thought it is about 90%. This is practical for homeowners/renters who want to save particular trees but for large pieces of land... well it's a huge task and expense.
As far as practices of cultivation, pruning, logging, land clearing, etc. in areas of SOD there are no real regulations but there are guidelines - which are outlined at the www.suddenoakdeath.org site. Mainly they recommend cleanind and disenfecting tools and machinery on site before leaving for another site. Anyone with a gardener out here should be asking they do this before going to the next job (for those who can afford it!). I asked about the tree trimming for PG&E and he said they had given training to the service a few years ago and they should be following these safe practices.
I shared with him how last year when Davey Tree came and cut they shared three loads of woodchips (half are still piled and waiting to mulch new garden areas) and there was no mention of SOD. So maybe that's another thing to inquire about - if Davey Tree knows there is SOD here as the helicoptor and PG&E Engineers have been out surveying what needs to be trimmed and we should be seeing those green trucks out here soon.
I hope I covered most of what Stefan shared with me. He is a wealth of information and most eager to share it but there is SO much it was hard to write notes fast enough.
I converted the agenda for the SOD Meeting that will be held July 11 at 9AM in Guerneville to a pdf and will try to attach it and will post the name and email of the person to RSVP below:
Janice Alexander would be the person to contact if you're interested in attending the workshop. Her email address is: [email protected]
Ok, hope this helps. I got to run to town for an appt. now.
-Dorothy
Oh, if you are getting this in Digest form , the attachment is on the website :)
oldrose
06-28-2006, 04:23 PM
Wow Dorothy! You are one powerhouse of information! Thank you.
T:Clap:
This afternoon I had the pleasure of speaking with Stefan Parnay
{snip}
T:Clap:
This afternoon I had the pleasure of speaking with Stefan Parnay
{snip}
moonrise
06-29-2006, 01:12 PM
Wow Dorothy! You are one powerhouse of information! Thank you.
T:Clap:
Thanks Teresa, I'm glad you could see through all the TYPOS! Oh my gosh that's embarrassing! :Embarrass My mind must have already been in the car and down the hill - I was nearly late for an appointment as I typed yesterday. :juggle:
I'm going to the meeting and also forwarded information to West County Gazette. I hope other local papers have picked it up. I am not putting my faith that this is the end-all answer but perhaps part of a solution that can be worked out with some interest and effort from many views and sources.
If the trees can be helped to withstand it by having supplements and such maybe even Reiki would help some?:)
Regards,
-Dorothy
T:Clap:
Thanks Teresa, I'm glad you could see through all the TYPOS! Oh my gosh that's embarrassing! :Embarrass My mind must have already been in the car and down the hill - I was nearly late for an appointment as I typed yesterday. :juggle:
I'm going to the meeting and also forwarded information to West County Gazette. I hope other local papers have picked it up. I am not putting my faith that this is the end-all answer but perhaps part of a solution that can be worked out with some interest and effort from many views and sources.
If the trees can be helped to withstand it by having supplements and such maybe even Reiki would help some?:)
Regards,
-Dorothy
PlantPassions
06-30-2006, 02:45 AM
If the trees can be helped to withstand it by having supplements and such maybe even Reiki would help some?:)
Hi, I just wanted to add that the Native Americans in the area would go and sit with their Oaks throughout the year and sing to them so that they would have a good harvest. They also burnt the brush from under the trees. I don't think burning is a good idea but do go out and sing to them. If I am not mistaken each tree has it's own song and it will teach it to you if you listen. Get out your drum and let them know we still care even though we don't eat acorns much anymore. It sure can't hurt! Happy singing, Plant Passions ( also a Dorothy)
Hi, I just wanted to add that the Native Americans in the area would go and sit with their Oaks throughout the year and sing to them so that they would have a good harvest. They also burnt the brush from under the trees. I don't think burning is a good idea but do go out and sing to them. If I am not mistaken each tree has it's own song and it will teach it to you if you listen. Get out your drum and let them know we still care even though we don't eat acorns much anymore. It sure can't hurt! Happy singing, Plant Passions ( also a Dorothy)
moonrise
07-10-2006, 06:33 PM
Hi Waccoites
The Guerneville meeting for Suddon Oak Death is indeed scheduled for July 20th, not on July 11th as I was initially told (and was in the draft agenda I was sent). Unfortunately I won't be able to attend as my father is having major surgery on the 19th and I'll be out of town with him. If someone could committ to attending, gather questions some of us have from Wacco and bring answers and more information back it would sure be great. I'd have been glad to do it but I must be with my family.
According to the draft agenda I received (and attached here to this thread) there will be representatives from indigenous tribes participating in this all day workshop as well as many other points of view. I have a feeling this could be quite a wholeistic approach to the situation. I sure wish I could attend.
Thanks very much. And please be sure to RSVP so they can provide lunch, etc.
-Dorothy
Here's the confirmation email I received on July 6:
"Thank you for your email. First off, I’ve entered your registration for the July 20 meeting in Guerneville, where hopefully all of your questions will be answered in full. We will be meeting at the Guerneville Library, in the Forum Room right near the main entry doors. We will have light snacks and a small lunch for all the participants. If you have neighbors that are interested but unable to attend the whole day, please let them know that they are welcome to attend any part of the session they are able, and that we will provide handouts and contact information for people to take away and distribute in their neighborhoods.
<>
Since you will be attending the session in a couple of weeks, I won’t try to answer the many questions you have through email. Instead, I have noted the general questions below and will include them in the list of questions the speakers will be helping to answer that day
</> Janice Alexander
Sudden Oak Death Outreach Coordinator
California Oak Mortality Task Force
University of California Cooperative Extension
1682 Novato Blvd. Ste. 150B
Novato, CA 94947
415.499.3041 (ph)
415.499.4209 (fx)
[email protected]
www.suddenoakdeath.org (https://www.suddenoakdeath.org/)
The Guerneville meeting for Suddon Oak Death is indeed scheduled for July 20th, not on July 11th as I was initially told (and was in the draft agenda I was sent). Unfortunately I won't be able to attend as my father is having major surgery on the 19th and I'll be out of town with him. If someone could committ to attending, gather questions some of us have from Wacco and bring answers and more information back it would sure be great. I'd have been glad to do it but I must be with my family.
According to the draft agenda I received (and attached here to this thread) there will be representatives from indigenous tribes participating in this all day workshop as well as many other points of view. I have a feeling this could be quite a wholeistic approach to the situation. I sure wish I could attend.
Thanks very much. And please be sure to RSVP so they can provide lunch, etc.
-Dorothy
Here's the confirmation email I received on July 6:
"Thank you for your email. First off, I’ve entered your registration for the July 20 meeting in Guerneville, where hopefully all of your questions will be answered in full. We will be meeting at the Guerneville Library, in the Forum Room right near the main entry doors. We will have light snacks and a small lunch for all the participants. If you have neighbors that are interested but unable to attend the whole day, please let them know that they are welcome to attend any part of the session they are able, and that we will provide handouts and contact information for people to take away and distribute in their neighborhoods.
<>
Since you will be attending the session in a couple of weeks, I won’t try to answer the many questions you have through email. Instead, I have noted the general questions below and will include them in the list of questions the speakers will be helping to answer that day
</> Janice Alexander
Sudden Oak Death Outreach Coordinator
California Oak Mortality Task Force
University of California Cooperative Extension
1682 Novato Blvd. Ste. 150B
Novato, CA 94947
415.499.3041 (ph)
415.499.4209 (fx)
[email protected]
www.suddenoakdeath.org (https://www.suddenoakdeath.org/)
Barry
07-19-2006, 06:32 PM
[From the PD: Published: Wednesday, Jul 19, 2006]
Amoeba may eat sudden oak death fungus
SSU professor makes potential breakthrough discovery while examining Annadel bay leaf
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
A microscopic amoeba found on an Annadel State Park bay leaf could become a weapon in the fight to control the spread of sudden oak death, a Sonoma State University biologist said.
<script language="JavaScript"> OAS_AD('Middle'); </script> The amoeba appears to eat the pathogen that causes sudden oak death, giving it the potential to be a treatment for infected trees and a pretreatment for healthy trees.
"It is promising; there is hope," said Michael Cohen, an assistant professor in the SSU biology department. "I think that it could be one among an arsenal of treatments that are being developed."
Sudden oak death has killed more than a million trees in 14 coastal counties from Monterey to Humboldt and is getting worse, its spread exacerbated by two years of late spring rains, researchers said.
It is a fungal disease that infects bay trees first, and they in turn infect oak trees, which develop cankers on their trunks and can eventually die.
"We have found new areas that have not previously had the disease, particularly on the margins of infected areas," said David Rizzo, a plant pathologist at UC Davis. "In Humboldt, it has moved into the Avenue of the Giants. In Mendocino County, it is along Route 128 near Boonville."
Although researchers have not analyzed all the data on its spread, Rizzo said even in the plots they monitor in already-infected areas, "we have seen a ramping up of infections."
In Point Reyes National Seashore, what was a minor infestation just two years ago has become a major problem, said Susan Frankel, manager of the USDA Forest Service sudden oak death research program.
"In Point Reyes, the first reports were a couple of years ago, but now the park biologists are calling and last Friday said they can't believe what they are seeing, it is expanding," Frankel said.
In west Sonoma County, where there also are reports that the infestation is spreading, the California Oak Mortality Task Force will hold a workshop Thursday to give landowners information on the disease, methods to combat it, how to deal with the dead trees left behind and replanting.
"We are trying to give local landowners solid information on this disease and other issues, such as fire management and replanting," said task force member Janice Alexander. "We will be giving people information and resources so they can deal with the disease on their property."
The free workshop is from 10:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Thursday at the Guerneville Regional Library.
Cohen was working on a one-year, $15,000 grant from the U.S. Forest Service, Pacific Southwest Research Station, when he found the amoeba in May.
The researcher was initially studying a bacterium that had potential to be a deterrent when, under a microscope, he found instead an amoeba in a water droplet on a bay leaf that was attacking the sudden oak death pathogen.
"I could see it. I have worked with amoebas before, they are almost transparent, and they were crawling on these pathogens," Cohen said Monday. "It was one of those fortuitous findings."
Cohen said next year, under laboratory conditions, researchers will attempt to grow the amoeba population and test its ability to inhibit the pathogen. If that shows potential, in 2008 it could be tested outdoors.
"Maybe you could pretreat a tree, or you could treat a tree that is already infected and limit its ability to spread the pathogen," Cohen said.
The forest service's Frankel, however, cautioned that it is too early in the research to determine whether it will work as a treatment.
"It is in a laboratory and in a Petri dish," she said. "But it is interesting and it is a big 'wow' of science. At this point it is more of a curiosity, but you have to pursue those leads and see where it goes."
Amoeba may eat sudden oak death fungus
SSU professor makes potential breakthrough discovery while examining Annadel bay leaf
By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
A microscopic amoeba found on an Annadel State Park bay leaf could become a weapon in the fight to control the spread of sudden oak death, a Sonoma State University biologist said.
<script language="JavaScript"> OAS_AD('Middle'); </script> The amoeba appears to eat the pathogen that causes sudden oak death, giving it the potential to be a treatment for infected trees and a pretreatment for healthy trees.
"It is promising; there is hope," said Michael Cohen, an assistant professor in the SSU biology department. "I think that it could be one among an arsenal of treatments that are being developed."
Sudden oak death has killed more than a million trees in 14 coastal counties from Monterey to Humboldt and is getting worse, its spread exacerbated by two years of late spring rains, researchers said.
It is a fungal disease that infects bay trees first, and they in turn infect oak trees, which develop cankers on their trunks and can eventually die.
"We have found new areas that have not previously had the disease, particularly on the margins of infected areas," said David Rizzo, a plant pathologist at UC Davis. "In Humboldt, it has moved into the Avenue of the Giants. In Mendocino County, it is along Route 128 near Boonville."
Although researchers have not analyzed all the data on its spread, Rizzo said even in the plots they monitor in already-infected areas, "we have seen a ramping up of infections."
In Point Reyes National Seashore, what was a minor infestation just two years ago has become a major problem, said Susan Frankel, manager of the USDA Forest Service sudden oak death research program.
"In Point Reyes, the first reports were a couple of years ago, but now the park biologists are calling and last Friday said they can't believe what they are seeing, it is expanding," Frankel said.
In west Sonoma County, where there also are reports that the infestation is spreading, the California Oak Mortality Task Force will hold a workshop Thursday to give landowners information on the disease, methods to combat it, how to deal with the dead trees left behind and replanting.
"We are trying to give local landowners solid information on this disease and other issues, such as fire management and replanting," said task force member Janice Alexander. "We will be giving people information and resources so they can deal with the disease on their property."
The free workshop is from 10:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Thursday at the Guerneville Regional Library.
Cohen was working on a one-year, $15,000 grant from the U.S. Forest Service, Pacific Southwest Research Station, when he found the amoeba in May.
The researcher was initially studying a bacterium that had potential to be a deterrent when, under a microscope, he found instead an amoeba in a water droplet on a bay leaf that was attacking the sudden oak death pathogen.
"I could see it. I have worked with amoebas before, they are almost transparent, and they were crawling on these pathogens," Cohen said Monday. "It was one of those fortuitous findings."
Cohen said next year, under laboratory conditions, researchers will attempt to grow the amoeba population and test its ability to inhibit the pathogen. If that shows potential, in 2008 it could be tested outdoors.
"Maybe you could pretreat a tree, or you could treat a tree that is already infected and limit its ability to spread the pathogen," Cohen said.
The forest service's Frankel, however, cautioned that it is too early in the research to determine whether it will work as a treatment.
"It is in a laboratory and in a Petri dish," she said. "But it is interesting and it is a big 'wow' of science. At this point it is more of a curiosity, but you have to pursue those leads and see where it goes."
nhcal
02-16-2007, 05:53 PM
AGRIFOS AND PENTRABARK the only scientifically approved treatment for SOD can be purchased online at www.bioscape.com or call 877-246-7227.
Sonomamark
02-16-2007, 09:10 PM
There is NO "scientifically proven" control or cure for Sudden Oak Death. Considerable effort in research is being devoted to the problem. There is some tentative indication that higher nutrition reduces mortality, but I repeat: there is NO "scientifically proven control" for SOD. Anyone who claims otherwise is making a fraudulent claim.
This is a serious problem, and one which requires real research and effort, not snake oil. Please give "agrifos" the complete ignoring it so richly deserves.
AGRIFOS, the only scientifically proven control for sudden oak death can be ordered online at Nonsense.com (https://www.bioscape.com) or 877-GIVEMEMONEYYOUSAPS.
This is a serious problem, and one which requires real research and effort, not snake oil. Please give "agrifos" the complete ignoring it so richly deserves.
AGRIFOS, the only scientifically proven control for sudden oak death can be ordered online at Nonsense.com (https://www.bioscape.com) or 877-GIVEMEMONEYYOUSAPS.
Sonomamark
02-16-2007, 09:16 PM
Folks, you should know that Klinger's farcical escapade in the Laguna Wetlands Park a few years ago...
1) "Treated" completely healthy trees by putting whitewash on them--including several species that aren't even susceptible to Sudden Oak Death.
2) Did so without permission from the City, which would have denied it if he had sought it.
Klinger is an atmospheric scientist. He doesn't know anything about trees. He's just a wacko who likes to get his name in the paper.
The Bohemian was completely sucked in by this charletan, and didn't even bother to ask anyone who knows anything about Sudden Oak Death. It's embarrassing.
1) "Treated" completely healthy trees by putting whitewash on them--including several species that aren't even susceptible to Sudden Oak Death.
2) Did so without permission from the City, which would have denied it if he had sought it.
Klinger is an atmospheric scientist. He doesn't know anything about trees. He's just a wacko who likes to get his name in the paper.
The Bohemian was completely sucked in by this charletan, and didn't even bother to ask anyone who knows anything about Sudden Oak Death. It's embarrassing.
Autumnsu7
02-16-2007, 09:16 PM
Just a quick clarification.
Everything I've heard is Bay Laurel harbors the spores, but does not die from SOD. I recently heard that it's the main host plant and Oaks near Bay have higher infection rates.
Autumn Summers
Everything I've heard is Bay Laurel harbors the spores, but does not die from SOD. I recently heard that it's the main host plant and Oaks near Bay have higher infection rates.
Autumn Summers
Sonomamark
02-16-2007, 09:19 PM
It's a scam, folks. At this time, there is no proven control for SODS.
AGRIFOS is the only clinically proven control for sudden oak death and can be ordered online at www.nonsense.com (https://www.nonsense.com) or GIVE-MEMONEY-YOUSAPS.
AGRIFOS is the only clinically proven control for sudden oak death and can be ordered online at www.nonsense.com (https://www.nonsense.com) or GIVE-MEMONEY-YOUSAPS.
nhcal
02-17-2007, 07:19 AM
It's a scam, folks. At this time, there is no proven control for SODS.
AGRIFOS is fully registered and Labelled for the CONTROL of Sudden Oak Death. Also, I have copies of the data and would be happy to email them to anyone that is interested.
AGRIFOS is fully registered and Labelled for the CONTROL of Sudden Oak Death. Also, I have copies of the data and would be happy to email them to anyone that is interested.
nhcal
02-17-2007, 07:34 AM
Folks, you should know that Klinger's farcical escapade in the Laguna Wetlands Park a few years ago...
1) "Treated" completely healthy trees by putting whitewash on them--including several species that aren't even susceptible to Sudden Oak Death.
2) Did so without permission from the City, which would have denied it if he had sought it.
Klinger is an atmospheric scientist. He doesn't know anything about trees. He's just a wacko who likes to get his name in the paper.
The Bohemian was completely sucked in by this charletan, and didn't even bother to ask anyone who knows anything about Sudden Oak Death. It's embarrassing.
What are your credentials?
1) "Treated" completely healthy trees by putting whitewash on them--including several species that aren't even susceptible to Sudden Oak Death.
2) Did so without permission from the City, which would have denied it if he had sought it.
Klinger is an atmospheric scientist. He doesn't know anything about trees. He's just a wacko who likes to get his name in the paper.
The Bohemian was completely sucked in by this charletan, and didn't even bother to ask anyone who knows anything about Sudden Oak Death. It's embarrassing.
What are your credentials?
nhcal
02-17-2007, 07:52 AM
Just a quick clarification.
Everything I've heard is Bay Laurel harbors the spores, but does not die from SOD. I recently heard that it's the main host plant and Oaks near Bay have higher infection rates.
Autumn Summers
Autumn,
I am a Cornell University trained plant pathologist. In my opinion, as the first consulting arborist to discover this "tree decline" in 1994, the infection stage of the decline is secondary. There is alot of evidence that this infection has been in the forest ecosystem for thousands of years. The question arises, why is it expressing itself now?
In a recent study, done by UC Berkeley no incidence of SOD was found where there has been a fire within the past 50 years. In addition, fires are proven to add calcium and phosphorus to forest soils. Calcium is proven to suppress phytophthora zoospores in soils.
Agrifos is potassium phosphite and provides an immune system response in trees or host mediated response. In scientific trials conducted here in Sonoma County potassium phosphite stimulated the immune systems of SOD affected trees and allowed them to compartmentalize the cankers caused by the fungal infection. However, before infection can take place, the host generally needs to be predisposed by some other factor like acid rain or soil acidification before the pathogen expresses itself.
Studies also proved that stimulating the immune system of trees increases phytoalexins which are natural fungistatic compounds that are normally found in trees.
Bay trees harbor spores but do not die. Since the "immune systems" of bays are not compromised, the fungal agent cannot express itself. The presence of these spores most likely has been present in the forest for thousands of years. P ramorum is most closely related to P lateralis a disease of Port Orford Cedars that was documented in the early 1900's. There is no evidence that P ramorum is an introduced pathogen, most of the evidence is that it is native.
So what we are witnessing is a natural cycle.
If you are interested in copies of this data please contact me offline at 707-781-7235
Everything I've heard is Bay Laurel harbors the spores, but does not die from SOD. I recently heard that it's the main host plant and Oaks near Bay have higher infection rates.
Autumn Summers
Autumn,
I am a Cornell University trained plant pathologist. In my opinion, as the first consulting arborist to discover this "tree decline" in 1994, the infection stage of the decline is secondary. There is alot of evidence that this infection has been in the forest ecosystem for thousands of years. The question arises, why is it expressing itself now?
In a recent study, done by UC Berkeley no incidence of SOD was found where there has been a fire within the past 50 years. In addition, fires are proven to add calcium and phosphorus to forest soils. Calcium is proven to suppress phytophthora zoospores in soils.
Agrifos is potassium phosphite and provides an immune system response in trees or host mediated response. In scientific trials conducted here in Sonoma County potassium phosphite stimulated the immune systems of SOD affected trees and allowed them to compartmentalize the cankers caused by the fungal infection. However, before infection can take place, the host generally needs to be predisposed by some other factor like acid rain or soil acidification before the pathogen expresses itself.
Studies also proved that stimulating the immune system of trees increases phytoalexins which are natural fungistatic compounds that are normally found in trees.
Bay trees harbor spores but do not die. Since the "immune systems" of bays are not compromised, the fungal agent cannot express itself. The presence of these spores most likely has been present in the forest for thousands of years. P ramorum is most closely related to P lateralis a disease of Port Orford Cedars that was documented in the early 1900's. There is no evidence that P ramorum is an introduced pathogen, most of the evidence is that it is native.
So what we are witnessing is a natural cycle.
If you are interested in copies of this data please contact me offline at 707-781-7235
nhcal
02-17-2007, 08:36 AM
It's a scam, folks. At this time, there is no proven control for SODS.
Agrifos is registered and approved for the treatment and control of sudden oak death by the Department of Pesticide Regulation in Sacramento, CA.
period.
Agrifos is registered and approved for the treatment and control of sudden oak death by the Department of Pesticide Regulation in Sacramento, CA.
period.
Barry
02-17-2007, 08:54 AM
Agrifos is registered and approved for the treatment and control of sudden oak death by the Department of Pesticide Regulation in Sacramento, CA.
period.There appears to be some scientific support for Agrifos being of use in the control of SOD.
Here are some articles I found that may be of interest. While not a panacea, it also does not appear to be a scam.
https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr196/psw_gtr196_005_036Kanaskie.pdf
https://forestry.berkeley.edu/sodsymposium/abstracts/38Schmidt.html
https://www.cpoabigsur.org/Community/Sudden_Oak_Death/Guidelines_for_selecting_trees.pdf
period.There appears to be some scientific support for Agrifos being of use in the control of SOD.
Here are some articles I found that may be of interest. While not a panacea, it also does not appear to be a scam.
https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr196/psw_gtr196_005_036Kanaskie.pdf
https://forestry.berkeley.edu/sodsymposium/abstracts/38Schmidt.html
https://www.cpoabigsur.org/Community/Sudden_Oak_Death/Guidelines_for_selecting_trees.pdf
nhcal
02-17-2007, 09:27 AM
I have attached another study. Goto this post on the website to view it.
There appears to be some scientific support for Agrifos being of use in the control of SOD.
Here are some articles I found that may be of interest. While not a panacea, it also does not appear to be a scam.
https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr196/psw_gtr196_005_036Kanaskie.pdf
https://forestry.berkeley.edu/sodsymposium/abstracts/38Schmidt.html
https://www.cpoabigsur.org/Community/Sudden_Oak_Death/Guidelines_for_selecting_trees.pdf
There appears to be some scientific support for Agrifos being of use in the control of SOD.
Here are some articles I found that may be of interest. While not a panacea, it also does not appear to be a scam.
https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr196/psw_gtr196_005_036Kanaskie.pdf
https://forestry.berkeley.edu/sodsymposium/abstracts/38Schmidt.html
https://www.cpoabigsur.org/Community/Sudden_Oak_Death/Guidelines_for_selecting_trees.pdf
nicofrog
02-17-2007, 02:45 PM
I feel this almost as strongly about this as I do about the marines "Needing" to kill children every week in Iraq. Also the death and extinction of frogs world wide is trajic. Not to mention global climate change,glacier melt affecting ocean currents,etc.
This brings up our question of BURNING being a natural part if lifecycle in California, inconvenient for humans, but quite possibly nessesary, maybe the "Native " people had some wisdom burning dead diseased branches right around the oaks they cherished, and ashes provide readily available nutrients.
as the scientist-arborist who discovered SOD mentioned " In a recent study, done by UC Berkeley no incidence of SOD was found where there has been a fire within the past 50 years. In addition, fires are proven to add calcium and phosphorus to forest soils. Calcium is proven to suppress phytophthora zoospores in soils."
It could be a natural cycle of nature, or it could be increased U,V.,acid rain, smog, or even the lack of sacred song.Or just humans "Protecting" themselfs from fire.:hmmm:
I intend to focus every second of my energy until I die on helping children
to use ancient tools,beauty,and modern science to help them feel a loving and confident relationship with Nature. Remembering that we are Nature as well,even our misteaks ,are obviously a part of human nature.
There is a wonderful arborist-Tree trimmer tree nurturer named Kevin
who lives in Freestone right across 12 from where the occidental boho-highway heads north through freestone toward occidental.
He and his family live right there and he does some great work with trees
I have his no. and will share is if any one who wants to get out and actually help some trees.
Unfortunately SOD effects Madrone,Huckleberry and many other slow growing hardwoods on our coastal range. I don't believe the redwoods will be much of a worry,it is totaly normal for redwood to put out a billion saplings and suckers,and many will die off and create even more ditritus for the bigger ones to live on. Redwoods have their own Friendly micillia that grow around them and digest their relatively toxic ditritus so that only they can eat it,not a happy environment for any but a very few hardy species.
What a beautiful and giant mystery we live in.
thank you all for caring so much. Nico
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
Teresa
This brings up our question of BURNING being a natural part if lifecycle in California, inconvenient for humans, but quite possibly nessesary, maybe the "Native " people had some wisdom burning dead diseased branches right around the oaks they cherished, and ashes provide readily available nutrients.
as the scientist-arborist who discovered SOD mentioned " In a recent study, done by UC Berkeley no incidence of SOD was found where there has been a fire within the past 50 years. In addition, fires are proven to add calcium and phosphorus to forest soils. Calcium is proven to suppress phytophthora zoospores in soils."
It could be a natural cycle of nature, or it could be increased U,V.,acid rain, smog, or even the lack of sacred song.Or just humans "Protecting" themselfs from fire.:hmmm:
I intend to focus every second of my energy until I die on helping children
to use ancient tools,beauty,and modern science to help them feel a loving and confident relationship with Nature. Remembering that we are Nature as well,even our misteaks ,are obviously a part of human nature.
There is a wonderful arborist-Tree trimmer tree nurturer named Kevin
who lives in Freestone right across 12 from where the occidental boho-highway heads north through freestone toward occidental.
He and his family live right there and he does some great work with trees
I have his no. and will share is if any one who wants to get out and actually help some trees.
Unfortunately SOD effects Madrone,Huckleberry and many other slow growing hardwoods on our coastal range. I don't believe the redwoods will be much of a worry,it is totaly normal for redwood to put out a billion saplings and suckers,and many will die off and create even more ditritus for the bigger ones to live on. Redwoods have their own Friendly micillia that grow around them and digest their relatively toxic ditritus so that only they can eat it,not a happy environment for any but a very few hardy species.
What a beautiful and giant mystery we live in.
thank you all for caring so much. Nico
Who else has noticed the oaks that have died in the last season? There is a huge number of them in the Occidental / Bitner road area. Is it sudden oak?:tear:
Teresa
nhcal
02-17-2007, 03:37 PM
Please read the attached documents regarding Fire and SOD.
(Attachments are available on this post on the website)
(Attachments are available on this post on the website)
Sonomamark
02-18-2007, 12:52 PM
I note that you have changed the subject, avoiding contending my post about Klinger's qualifications and what he did in the Laguna Wetlands Park a few years ago. So I will take as granted that Klinger doesn't have credentials on this issue and that his action in the LWP demonstrates he doesn't have a clue about SODS.
But: to credential. The issue isn't mine--I'm not trying to sell anything. It's the credentials and claims of those who are trying to make money out of an environmental crisis--ecological war profiteers, in essence. BTW: while we're talking about disclosure of qualifications, let me first of all grant that a plant pathology degree from Cornell is impressive in the abstract, and then ask the other, obvious question: do you make money from the producers or by the sale of AGRIFOS? Because you sure keep posting the link with the claim that "only" this product "controls" SODS.
As for my credentials and bias, here they are: First, for the land and water of Sonoma County. I've been working in environmental protection here for a long while, on issues ranging from River and watershed protection to land use, planning, vineyard development and transportation.
Second, for critical thinking and the scientific approach. I believe it doesn't help us to solve problems like SODS to have the conversation clogged up with commercials, nor to provide false hope when so much more needs to be learned to address this very challenging and serious issue.
Now, I've read the posted material on this phosphonate product. There appears to be some preliminary indication--as I acknowledged in my very first post--that phosphate nutrition appears to have some effect in increasing resistance to SODS. But to project that as being "control", I would argue, is an excessive stretch. "Control" implies that the disease no longer spreads, and does not kill treated individuals. The literature does not substantiate this. All it shows is the equivalent of an improved immune response in affected trees--not a big shock, as a well-nourished organism of any type has better disease resistance than does a malnourished one.
This seems to imply that, while not a solution, this product may help reduce the speed of demise of infected trees. That doesn't really constitute "control" by any definition I'm aware of.
We must also ask the question about associated environmental impacts. Massive use of this product would introduce large volumes of nutrient phosphate--a significant pollutant--into the watersheds of our region. The Laguna de Santa Rosa, receiving water of the entire Santa Rosa Plain, is already 303d listed under the Clean Water Act as Impaired for phosphates. Nutrient pollution contributes to eutrophication, reduction in dissolved oxygen, and associated undermining of the survival of cold-water fisheries, particularly salmonids. We happen to have three federally listed endangered salmonid species in our region (not just the Laguna drainage, but the balance of the West County as well).
So here, in summary, is where I am with this. This is a serious problem, and isn't helped by one-line magic-wand claims with links to a product for sale. That seems to imply, "go back to sleep, we've got the problem solved". It's counterproductive and, I would argue, not logically or scientifically defensible.
Well, there you have it. Do with it what you will.
SonomaMark
What are your credentials?
But: to credential. The issue isn't mine--I'm not trying to sell anything. It's the credentials and claims of those who are trying to make money out of an environmental crisis--ecological war profiteers, in essence. BTW: while we're talking about disclosure of qualifications, let me first of all grant that a plant pathology degree from Cornell is impressive in the abstract, and then ask the other, obvious question: do you make money from the producers or by the sale of AGRIFOS? Because you sure keep posting the link with the claim that "only" this product "controls" SODS.
As for my credentials and bias, here they are: First, for the land and water of Sonoma County. I've been working in environmental protection here for a long while, on issues ranging from River and watershed protection to land use, planning, vineyard development and transportation.
Second, for critical thinking and the scientific approach. I believe it doesn't help us to solve problems like SODS to have the conversation clogged up with commercials, nor to provide false hope when so much more needs to be learned to address this very challenging and serious issue.
Now, I've read the posted material on this phosphonate product. There appears to be some preliminary indication--as I acknowledged in my very first post--that phosphate nutrition appears to have some effect in increasing resistance to SODS. But to project that as being "control", I would argue, is an excessive stretch. "Control" implies that the disease no longer spreads, and does not kill treated individuals. The literature does not substantiate this. All it shows is the equivalent of an improved immune response in affected trees--not a big shock, as a well-nourished organism of any type has better disease resistance than does a malnourished one.
This seems to imply that, while not a solution, this product may help reduce the speed of demise of infected trees. That doesn't really constitute "control" by any definition I'm aware of.
We must also ask the question about associated environmental impacts. Massive use of this product would introduce large volumes of nutrient phosphate--a significant pollutant--into the watersheds of our region. The Laguna de Santa Rosa, receiving water of the entire Santa Rosa Plain, is already 303d listed under the Clean Water Act as Impaired for phosphates. Nutrient pollution contributes to eutrophication, reduction in dissolved oxygen, and associated undermining of the survival of cold-water fisheries, particularly salmonids. We happen to have three federally listed endangered salmonid species in our region (not just the Laguna drainage, but the balance of the West County as well).
So here, in summary, is where I am with this. This is a serious problem, and isn't helped by one-line magic-wand claims with links to a product for sale. That seems to imply, "go back to sleep, we've got the problem solved". It's counterproductive and, I would argue, not logically or scientifically defensible.
Well, there you have it. Do with it what you will.
SonomaMark
What are your credentials?
nhcal
02-19-2007, 08:14 AM
Lee Klinger is a famous expert 20 year veteran of the National Center For Atmospheric Research in Colorado. He has researched forest decline issues worldwide and is published a peer reviewed by such notable universities like Oxford. His reputation is impeccable in the world of forest ecology.
Agrifos is a phosphite not a phosphate- they are chemically different. Phosphites were developed for the very reason you mention-phosphate pollution of water. Phosphites do not create these problems . If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask more questions.
Agrifos is a phosphite not a phosphate- they are chemically different. Phosphites were developed for the very reason you mention-phosphate pollution of water. Phosphites do not create these problems . If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask more questions.
Sonomamark
02-19-2007, 11:50 AM
Q1--why would an atmospheric scientist know anything about forest decline?
Q2--why would a supposed expert "treat" trees which can't even get the SODS fungus, and do so without asking the property owner--while being sure to contact the press?
A quick Google shows a great deal of quotes in news publications by Klinger as an "Independent Scientist", but pretty much nothing published in peer-reviewed journals or affiliated with any credible institution. Fame can as easily be created by self-promotion as by qualification.
Conversely, I do not see our best experts from UC Berkeley and UC Davis Ag Extension, who are actively researching SODS, making claims anything like those of Dr. Klinger. Those scientists *are* subject to the standards of peer review and don't make claims until they are warranted by the findings of rigorous research.
If I am incorrect in re: threat of water quality impacts of phosphite, I'm happy to hear it, although my understanding is that this is due to binding of phosphite to soil particles. Not sure what concentrations that can lead to, and whether or not saturation with phosphite will eventually result in runoff.
As I said, my prejudice is for science-based approaches to problems. And disclosure of commercial relationships: that's how you get truth in advertising. So: do you or do you not make money from AGRIFOS?
Lee Klinger is a famous expert 20 year veteran of the National Center For Atmospheric Research in Colorado. He has researched forest decline issues worldwide and is published a peer reviewed by such notable universities like Oxford. His reputation is impeccable in the world of forest ecology.
Agrifos is a phosphite not a phosphate- they are chemically different. Phosphites were developed for the very reason you mention-phosphate pollution of water. Phosphites do not create these problems . If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask more questions.
Q2--why would a supposed expert "treat" trees which can't even get the SODS fungus, and do so without asking the property owner--while being sure to contact the press?
A quick Google shows a great deal of quotes in news publications by Klinger as an "Independent Scientist", but pretty much nothing published in peer-reviewed journals or affiliated with any credible institution. Fame can as easily be created by self-promotion as by qualification.
Conversely, I do not see our best experts from UC Berkeley and UC Davis Ag Extension, who are actively researching SODS, making claims anything like those of Dr. Klinger. Those scientists *are* subject to the standards of peer review and don't make claims until they are warranted by the findings of rigorous research.
If I am incorrect in re: threat of water quality impacts of phosphite, I'm happy to hear it, although my understanding is that this is due to binding of phosphite to soil particles. Not sure what concentrations that can lead to, and whether or not saturation with phosphite will eventually result in runoff.
As I said, my prejudice is for science-based approaches to problems. And disclosure of commercial relationships: that's how you get truth in advertising. So: do you or do you not make money from AGRIFOS?
Lee Klinger is a famous expert 20 year veteran of the National Center For Atmospheric Research in Colorado. He has researched forest decline issues worldwide and is published a peer reviewed by such notable universities like Oxford. His reputation is impeccable in the world of forest ecology.
Agrifos is a phosphite not a phosphate- they are chemically different. Phosphites were developed for the very reason you mention-phosphate pollution of water. Phosphites do not create these problems . If you need more information please do not hesitate to ask more questions.
Momcat
02-20-2007, 10:33 AM
I applaud you for taking the time to discuss this subject however; I am concerned about using this site to denigrate people and their practices. Nevertheless, I do have an opinion about SOD. I have lived in the west county hills on my 5 1/2 acres of woods for 17 years. About 15 years ago, while up in an 80' crane I noticed and photographed a startling die off pattern in the tan oaks, which are prominent in the surrounding hills and on my property. I contacted the county and spoke to several people about my observation. Because I had no 'credentials' I was ignored. Since that time we've lost dozens of trees on this property and hundreds more on the surrounding acres. If we listen only to people with 'credentials' we are cutting off a vital segment of the population who could alert us to changes in their surrounding environment. We have tried all of the suggested methods for SOD and I am sorry to say that they do not appear to be saving trees. I believe we applied these methods to our big oaks too little, too late. When we've taken down the dead and dying trees we've noticed that ambrosia beetles have been working on most of these trees in addition to the SOD pathogen. We neglected our trees for years, rarely cutting back dying limbs that then rot back into the trunk further weakening and rotting the tree. We disturbed the surrounding soil on several of the massive tan oaks that died when building our home. All of these things contributed to the core weakness and ability of the trees to resist disease. Trees need to be maintained or they will break down as nature intended them to do. You don't need a biology degree to understand this basic concept. I am heartbroken every time we lose a tree and blame myself in part, for my apathetic attitude in years past. I appreciate the articles posted on the relationship of fire to SOD, thank you so much!
I note that you have changed the subject, avoiding contending my post about Klinger's qualifications and what he did in the Laguna Wetlands Park a few years ago. So I will take as granted that Klinger doesn't have credentials on this issue and that his action in the LWP demonstrates he doesn't have a clue about SODS.
But: to credential. The issue isn't mine--I'm not trying to sell anything. It's the credentials and claims of those who are trying to make money out of an environmental crisis--ecological war profiteers, in essence. BTW: while we're talking about disclosure of qualifications, let me first of all grant that a plant pathology degree from Cornell is impressive in the abstract, and then ask the other, obvious question: do you make money from the producers or by the sale of AGRIFOS? Because you sure keep posting the link with the claim that "only" this product "controls" SODS.
As for my credentials and bias, here they are: First, for the land and water of Sonoma County. I've been working in environmental protection here for a long while, on issues ranging from River and watershed protection to land use, planning, vineyard development and transportation.
Second, for critical thinking and the scientific approach. I believe it doesn't help us to solve problems like SODS to have the conversation clogged up with commercials, nor to provide false hope when so much more needs to be learned to address this very challenging and serious issue.
Now, I've read the posted material on this phosphonate product. There appears to be some preliminary indication--as I acknowledged in my very first post--that phosphate nutrition appears to have some effect in increasing resistance to SODS. But to project that as being "control", I would argue, is an excessive stretch. "Control" implies that the disease no longer spreads, and does not kill treated individuals. The literature does not substantiate this. All it shows is the equivalent of an improved immune response in affected trees--not a big shock, as a well-nourished organism of any type has better disease resistance than does a malnourished one.
This seems to imply that, while not a solution, this product may help reduce the speed of demise of infected trees. That doesn't really constitute "control" by any definition I'm aware of.
We must also ask the question about associated environmental impacts. Massive use of this product would introduce large volumes of nutrient phosphate--a significant pollutant--into the watersheds of our region. The Laguna de Santa Rosa, receiving water of the entire Santa Rosa Plain, is already 303d listed under the Clean Water Act as Impaired for phosphates. Nutrient pollution contributes to eutrophication, reduction in dissolved oxygen, and associated undermining of the survival of cold-water fisheries, particularly salmonids. We happen to have three federally listed endangered salmonid species in our region (not just the Laguna drainage, but the balance of the West County as well).
So here, in summary, is where I am with this. This is a serious problem, and isn't helped by one-line magic-wand claims with links to a product for sale. That seems to imply, "go back to sleep, we've got the problem solved". It's counterproductive and, I would argue, not logically or scientifically defensible.
Well, there you have it. Do with it what you will.
SonomaMark
I note that you have changed the subject, avoiding contending my post about Klinger's qualifications and what he did in the Laguna Wetlands Park a few years ago. So I will take as granted that Klinger doesn't have credentials on this issue and that his action in the LWP demonstrates he doesn't have a clue about SODS.
But: to credential. The issue isn't mine--I'm not trying to sell anything. It's the credentials and claims of those who are trying to make money out of an environmental crisis--ecological war profiteers, in essence. BTW: while we're talking about disclosure of qualifications, let me first of all grant that a plant pathology degree from Cornell is impressive in the abstract, and then ask the other, obvious question: do you make money from the producers or by the sale of AGRIFOS? Because you sure keep posting the link with the claim that "only" this product "controls" SODS.
As for my credentials and bias, here they are: First, for the land and water of Sonoma County. I've been working in environmental protection here for a long while, on issues ranging from River and watershed protection to land use, planning, vineyard development and transportation.
Second, for critical thinking and the scientific approach. I believe it doesn't help us to solve problems like SODS to have the conversation clogged up with commercials, nor to provide false hope when so much more needs to be learned to address this very challenging and serious issue.
Now, I've read the posted material on this phosphonate product. There appears to be some preliminary indication--as I acknowledged in my very first post--that phosphate nutrition appears to have some effect in increasing resistance to SODS. But to project that as being "control", I would argue, is an excessive stretch. "Control" implies that the disease no longer spreads, and does not kill treated individuals. The literature does not substantiate this. All it shows is the equivalent of an improved immune response in affected trees--not a big shock, as a well-nourished organism of any type has better disease resistance than does a malnourished one.
This seems to imply that, while not a solution, this product may help reduce the speed of demise of infected trees. That doesn't really constitute "control" by any definition I'm aware of.
We must also ask the question about associated environmental impacts. Massive use of this product would introduce large volumes of nutrient phosphate--a significant pollutant--into the watersheds of our region. The Laguna de Santa Rosa, receiving water of the entire Santa Rosa Plain, is already 303d listed under the Clean Water Act as Impaired for phosphates. Nutrient pollution contributes to eutrophication, reduction in dissolved oxygen, and associated undermining of the survival of cold-water fisheries, particularly salmonids. We happen to have three federally listed endangered salmonid species in our region (not just the Laguna drainage, but the balance of the West County as well).
So here, in summary, is where I am with this. This is a serious problem, and isn't helped by one-line magic-wand claims with links to a product for sale. That seems to imply, "go back to sleep, we've got the problem solved". It's counterproductive and, I would argue, not logically or scientifically defensible.
Well, there you have it. Do with it what you will.
SonomaMark
Treasure
02-21-2007, 04:46 PM
There has been so much negatiive talk about Lee Klinger on this list that I feel sad and want to raise the level of understanding and harmony in our community.
Lee has a Ph.D. in Geography and a Masters in Environmental Science from, I believe, the University of Colorado. Over 50 of his peer-reviewed studies have been published.
Lee has never recommended Agrifos, which may give a temporary boost to the plant or tree but does nothing to improve soil health. He recommends Azamite, because it replaces minerals that soils have lost.
I helped whitewash an oak tree in the Laguna a few years ago, with calcium, lime, and oyster shells. There was nothing wrong with the tree. It was simply a demonstration and part of the workshop that the organizers of the Green Festival invited Lee to give. When invited, he told them that he'd like to whitewash a tree, they said fine they'd make all the arrangements, and apparently they didn't request permission or notify the right people. Humans began whitewashing trees long ago as a way to improve and maintain their health.
Lee has never asked me to write an article for him. When I learned about his work, I wanted to share it with others. I give him a call from time to time, and occasionally write an article.
If you have any questions about Lee and his work, would you be willing to consider asking him from now on? His phone # is 831 917-7070. He plans to join this list, so you will be able to direct any questions to him here, too.
Best,
Tara Treasurefield
Lee has a Ph.D. in Geography and a Masters in Environmental Science from, I believe, the University of Colorado. Over 50 of his peer-reviewed studies have been published.
Lee has never recommended Agrifos, which may give a temporary boost to the plant or tree but does nothing to improve soil health. He recommends Azamite, because it replaces minerals that soils have lost.
I helped whitewash an oak tree in the Laguna a few years ago, with calcium, lime, and oyster shells. There was nothing wrong with the tree. It was simply a demonstration and part of the workshop that the organizers of the Green Festival invited Lee to give. When invited, he told them that he'd like to whitewash a tree, they said fine they'd make all the arrangements, and apparently they didn't request permission or notify the right people. Humans began whitewashing trees long ago as a way to improve and maintain their health.
Lee has never asked me to write an article for him. When I learned about his work, I wanted to share it with others. I give him a call from time to time, and occasionally write an article.
If you have any questions about Lee and his work, would you be willing to consider asking him from now on? His phone # is 831 917-7070. He plans to join this list, so you will be able to direct any questions to him here, too.
Best,
Tara Treasurefield
Treasure
03-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Mark,
When I attempted to reply to your posts entitled "Klinger: no credential, no credibility" about a month ago, I ran into some technical difficulties. Since there are many factual errors in your posts, I am trying again, in the interests of fairness and accuracy.
You wrote: "The Bohemian was completely sucked in by this charletan, and didn't even bother to ask anyone who knows anything about Sudden Oak Death. It's embarrassing."
As a matter of fact, when I wrote articles for the Bohemian and Pacific Sun about Lee Klinger's work with trees, I interviewed and quoted several people that "know something about Sudden Oak Death," including University of California plant pathologists David Rizzo and Matteo Garbellotto, who are science advisors to the California Oak Mortality Task Force; plant pathologist Ted Swiecki; and forest ranger Pat Robards.
You wrote: [Klinger] "Treated" completely healthy trees [in the Laguna] by putting whitewash on them--including several species that aren't even susceptible to Sudden Oak Death."
I was there, I helped whitewash the tree. ONE tree. It was a demonstration for the workshop that Lee Klinger was invited to present at the Green Festival. He has said himself that most of the trees that are sick and dying don't even have Sudden Oak Death. The ancient practice of whitewashing trees with mineralized rock salt, hydrated lime, and crushed oyster shells helps prevent disease and restore sick trees to health.
You wrote: [Klinger whitewashed the trees] "without permission from the City, which would have denied it if he had sought it."
When Lee Klinger was invited to present the workshop, he told the organizers that he would like to whitewash a tree. They told him that would be fine, but they apparently neglected to request or secure permission from the appropriate authorities.
You wrote: "Klinger is an atmospheric scientist. He doesn't know anything about trees. He's just a wacko who likes to get his name in the paper."
Lee Klinger has a Ph.D. in Geography from the University of Colorado. Over 50 of his peer-reviewed studies have been published. For more than 20 years, he has led research projects in forest ecology worldwide for the University of Oxford, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
Sincerely,
Tara Treasurefield
When I attempted to reply to your posts entitled "Klinger: no credential, no credibility" about a month ago, I ran into some technical difficulties. Since there are many factual errors in your posts, I am trying again, in the interests of fairness and accuracy.
You wrote: "The Bohemian was completely sucked in by this charletan, and didn't even bother to ask anyone who knows anything about Sudden Oak Death. It's embarrassing."
As a matter of fact, when I wrote articles for the Bohemian and Pacific Sun about Lee Klinger's work with trees, I interviewed and quoted several people that "know something about Sudden Oak Death," including University of California plant pathologists David Rizzo and Matteo Garbellotto, who are science advisors to the California Oak Mortality Task Force; plant pathologist Ted Swiecki; and forest ranger Pat Robards.
You wrote: [Klinger] "Treated" completely healthy trees [in the Laguna] by putting whitewash on them--including several species that aren't even susceptible to Sudden Oak Death."
I was there, I helped whitewash the tree. ONE tree. It was a demonstration for the workshop that Lee Klinger was invited to present at the Green Festival. He has said himself that most of the trees that are sick and dying don't even have Sudden Oak Death. The ancient practice of whitewashing trees with mineralized rock salt, hydrated lime, and crushed oyster shells helps prevent disease and restore sick trees to health.
You wrote: [Klinger whitewashed the trees] "without permission from the City, which would have denied it if he had sought it."
When Lee Klinger was invited to present the workshop, he told the organizers that he would like to whitewash a tree. They told him that would be fine, but they apparently neglected to request or secure permission from the appropriate authorities.
You wrote: "Klinger is an atmospheric scientist. He doesn't know anything about trees. He's just a wacko who likes to get his name in the paper."
Lee Klinger has a Ph.D. in Geography from the University of Colorado. Over 50 of his peer-reviewed studies have been published. For more than 20 years, he has led research projects in forest ecology worldwide for the University of Oxford, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
Sincerely,
Tara Treasurefield