<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} table.MsoTableGrid {mso-style-name:"Table Grid"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; border:solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-border-insideh:.5pt solid windowtext; mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Dear waccoins, I rephrased part of one of the sentences for 2 reasons; 1- is there were 2 ethnic slur-words that I replaced with more of a generalization that covers more people;
2- I also added 2 others to the mix in the same sentence.
I don’t know who the author of the original writing is but it seems okay to me to post it here anyway.
Also, the website (https://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm) that I copied it from always changes its front page appearance, so, if I put a link to it; it would most likely not be in the page display.
<table class="MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt; mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-border-insideh: .5pt solid windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes"> <td style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt; padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" valign="top"> A note of appreciation from the rich
Let's be honest: you'll never win the lottery.
On the other hand, the chances are pretty good that you'll slave away at some miserable job the rest of your life. That's because you were in all likelihood born into the wrong social class. Let's face it — you're a member of the working caste. Sorry!
As a result, you don't have the education, upbringing, connections, manners, appearance, and good taste to ever become one of us. In fact, you'd probably need a book the size of the yellow pages to list all the unfair advantages we have over you. That's why we're so relieved to know that you still continue to believe all those silly fairy tales about "justice" and "equal opportunity" in America.
Of course, in a hierarchical social system like ours, there's never been much room at the top to begin with. Besides, it's already occupied by us — and we like it up here so much that we intend to keep it that way. But at least there's usually someone lower in the social hierarchy you can feel superior to and kick in the teeth once in a while. Even a lowly dishwasher can easily find some poor slob further down in the pecking order to sneer and spit at. So be thankful for migrant workers, prostitutes, and homeless street people.
Always remember that if everyone like you were economically secure and socially privileged like us, there would be no one left to fill all those boring, dangerous, low-paid jobs in our economy. And no one to fight our wars for us, or blindly follow orders in our totalitarian corporate institutions. And certainly no one to meekly go to their grave without having lived a full and creative life. So please, keep up the good work!
You also probably don't have the same greedy, compulsive drive to possess wealth, power, and prestige that we have. And even though you may sincerely want to change the way you live, you're also afraid of the very change you desire, thus keeping you and others like you in a nervous state of limbo. So you go through life mechanically playing your assigned social role, terrified what others would think should you ever dare to "break out of the mold."
Naturally, we try to play you off against each other whenever it suits our purposes: high-waged workers against low-waged, unionized against non-unionized, Black against White, male against female, American workers against Japanese against Mexican against.... We continually push your wages down by invoking "foreign competition," "the law of supply and demand," "national security," or "the bloated federal deficit." We throw you on the unemployed scrap heap if you step out of line or jeopardize our profits. And to give you an occasional break from the monotony of our daily economic blackmail, we allow you to participate in our stage-managed electoral shell games, better known to you ordinary folks as "elections." Happily, you haven't a clue as to what's really happening — instead, you blame "Aliens," "Tree-hugging Environmentalists," "ethnics," "communists," Welfare Queens," “Leftists”, and countless others for your troubled situation.
We're also very pleased that many of you still embrace the "work ethic," even though most jobs in our economy degrade the environment, undermine your physical and emotional health, and basically suck your one and only life right out of you. We obviously don't know much about work, but we're sure glad you do!
Of course, life could be different. Society could be intelligently organized to meet the real needs of the general population. You and others like you could collectively fight to free yourselves from our domination. But you don't know that. In fact, you can't even imagine that another way of life is possible. And that's probably the greatest, most significant achievement of our system — robbing you of your imagination, your creativity, your ability to think and act for yourself.
So we'd truly like to thank you from the bottom of our heartless hearts. Your loyal sacrifice makes possible our corrupt luxury; your work makes our system work. Thanks so much for "knowing your place" — without even knowing it!
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
"Mad" Miles
09-01-2011, 01:52 PM
I was going along reading, giving it my full appreciative approval, and then the, "but you don't know what's happening", theme near the end became dominant.
I just read yesterday that Rush Limbaugh was the one who invented the term, "sheeple". It's now been adopted by quite a few angry leftists (Radicals! Not Liberals, whether Liberals are really Leftists is a discussion for another day. One we've had here in the past.)
People know how bad the setup is and have pretty good ideas as to why. But without accessible organizations and a new direction that makes sense to them, and not just the old rhetorical shell game of promising hope and change and then committing blatant acts of betrayal once the desired participation is no longer needed (votes, volunteers, funds, eyeballs on the screen, etc.) they tend to be leery of would-be revolutionary leaders.
Does every working person have a sophisticated analysis of history, politics and economics? Of course not. But many, many relatively privileged people, what used to be called the Middle Class before it became code for Working Class, don't have a good understanding of the setup either. Hence the Tea Party.
People can tell when they're being screwed. To do something about it, well, what it takes to motivate us is a complex issue. To grossly oversimplify, we need some combination of: utter desperation, a sense that acting to oppose our oppressors is not suicide or a fools game, a goal that seems practical, and ways to work with each other which are not rife with petty bullshit, recrimination, rumor mongering and character assassination.
(Leftist activists? I'm looking at us! We all need to stare into that mirror and find better ways to cooperate. Ways that get around the endemic circular firing squad. And as we all know, that ain't easy.)
Anywhoo, most of the piece is great, but that elitist attitude posing as anti-elitist, is grating and unpersuasive.
I've found that when I'm trying to engage, inform and organize people to work together for a common cause, insulting them tends to be counterproductive.
Hotspring 44
09-01-2011, 03:37 PM
...Anywhoo, most of the piece is great, but that elitist attitude posing as anti-elitist, is grating and unpersuasive.
I agree... ...however, the statement (be it grating or otherwise) is titled: "A note of appreciation from the rich"; who are the "elitist's"; so to speak, in the context of the overall statement so I am not sure what you are saying when you referred to it as:
that elitist attitude posing as anti-elitist?:hmmm:?
My intended conveyance by posting that "statement", (was); to show example that the "rich" are condescending (Furthermore, only when it is perceived to be in their best interest to even so much as acknowledge the "lessors" {us} in the first place whatsoever by being so coy and (is) really meant to be (portraying) a tong-in-cheek as a thought to themselves, not really meaning for "us" to actually hear it in the first place) and therefore, of course, its no surprise to me that; to some (is) grating and (also) all or any of that which is equally as <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->irritating, annoying, aggravating, exasperating, vexing, etc..
I've found that when I'm trying to engage, inform and organize people to work together for a common cause, insulting them tends to be counterproductive. Yes, my thoughts; exactly.:idea:
That "common cause" in the context of the "rich" that was so grossly implied in the "statement" is supposed to be "counterproductive"... ...to the "rich".:thumbsup::wink:
People can tell when they're being screwed....Yes, but, they need to have critical thinking skills to counter it otherwise it is too easy to give the "mob" directions to destroy the very things and others, that would be a path out of being so "screwed".
...To do something about it, well, what it takes to motivate us is a complex issue.
I think motivation in a positive direction to stop the "screwing" necessitates at least some critical thinking skills to be able to be organized enough to maintain a strong enough stance to hold a platform for significant changes.
Without those minimal skills, maintaining a place at the "table" in the arena of (the) power structure; there is but only few places to survive in, like, for example, to the sidelines at best.
Schools, for the most part, educate in the exact opposite ways than what it takes to "teach" honest, <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->critical thinking skills.
The emphasis of education these days is to minimize <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->independent, critical thinking skills in the general population. Instead the set-up is to cherry-pick the best ones for the job of maintaining the status quo of the "richest" and the taming-down of the American "middle class" to a "working class", and the others under that as "expendable" "commodities" for the "free trade" tycoons to exploit.
"Mad" Miles
09-01-2011, 07:40 PM
You're preaching to one of the converted Hotspring44. The elitism I was criticizing wasn't the reverse joke, role reversal performance, of the piece. It was the clear, serious claim that one reason the poor and working class do not rise up is because they don't really know what's going on.
The piece wasn't written by anyone with great wealth or power, obviously. And of course you knew that.
It addresses legitimate causes of why people do not resist, as you did in your reply to me. As I did in my reply to it.
But it also essentially says that people are too stupid, brainwashed, ignorant, etc. to even know what's happening, let alone do anything about it.
It's attacking both the powerful and powerless. Blaming both sides. (And is it a matter of just two sides? I think not.)
The question of whether blaming does any good at all, is a separate discussion.
But when I read a screed that purports to be on my side (admittedly via a role reversal shtick intended to make it more rhetorically effective) and attacks my side? And I think the attack is unfounded. Well, I defend us against calumny. That's how I roll.
I've struggled with this question for decades, studied abstruse and competing theories as to why. Discussed it with many an interested party, including many political activists. And I don't agree that even those badly educated and who have bought into the Myths, don't know a great deal about what's wrong.
Look at the debates between us and the Libertarian Conservative TP'rs here. On a lot of matters, both sides agree (the economy is fucked, leaders are selfish liars flacking for the rich, the earth is being destroyed, this country is well on its way to becoming a police state, etc.)
What we do not agree about, is: the history that led us to this impasse, the agents behind the problems we agree exist, and the strategies and techniques for attempting to solve those problems.
As for who is stupid/ignorant or smart/educated in these matters, obviously there isn't much common ground to be found.
That's why I default to the power of effective political action. "The proof is in the pudding", and all that jazz.
See my comments on Star Man's sharing of Chris Hedges "Trollocracy" piece, for a taste of that. Not that I haven't put it out here, over and over and over, for many years.
Hungry! Must eat!!
Hotspring 44
09-01-2011, 11:53 PM
You're preaching to one of the converted Hotspring44. The elitism I was criticizing wasn't the reverse joke, role reversal performance, of the piece. It was the clear, serious claim that one reason the poor and working class do not rise up is because they don't really know what's going on.
The piece wasn't written by anyone with great wealth or power, obviously. And of course you knew that.
It addresses legitimate causes of why people do not resist, as you did in your reply to me. As I did in my reply to it.
But it also essentially says that people are too stupid, brainwashed, ignorant, etc. to even know what's happening, let alone do anything about it...
Well, I, for one, am still waiting to see the masses do something about it, such as the mass protests that were opposing the Vietnam War and addressing the civil rights issues of the day, for example. There is today not enough personal involvement by the “middle Class” so the actions that do go on have for the most part been on the fringes. Until that changes the moneyed side of the fringe will have the advantage.
...It's attacking both the powerful and powerless. Blaming both sides. (And is it a matter of just two sides? I think not.)
I think I get your point... ...there are the ones in the "middle"; the ones that the tipping point one way or the other so depends on.
The question of whether blaming does any good at all, is a separate discussion.
So it is, so it is.
But when I read a screed that purports to be on my side (admittedly via a role reversal shtick intended to make it more rhetorically effective) and attacks my side? And I think the attack is unfounded. Well, I defend us against calumny. That's how I roll.
Understood.
I still stand by my opinion that the public school system has fragmented and gone away from the critical thinking education to a test monkey, box putting, mind numbing, scheme to train obedience and rank instead of an independent, individual, creative, problem solving skill set along with the other necessary curriculum.
...And I don't agree that even those badly educated and who have bought into the Myths, don't know a great deal about what's wrong.
I guess that as a generalization is so... ...But, how, who, and what pathways ("wrong") got us to this point brings us to much of the why the bickering that exists that you essentially noted in the "Troolocracy" thread: (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?82991-The-Trollocracy&p=140191#post140191).
Anyone that feels pain knows it when they are wronged. That’s not the point. The point I was accreting is that to have a firm grasp of complex issues which need more than an emotional response to solve and also needs to be more than an inside the box mentality don’t get solved without some knowledge of how to navigate through complicated issues where unexpected things inevitably come into play and have to be dealt with.
For example: the “No Child Left Behind Act” (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act#Unrealistic_goals) has made the walls of that “box” of which I am referring to so confining it actually stifles the necessary things that need to be done to solve the problems of the most needy areas in many schools in this country.
...The conflict was pretty much of the nature we see here, passionate people disagreeing and trying to support their opinions and goals, devolving to name calling when overly frustrated or provoked.
Look at the debates between us and the Libertarian Conservative TP'rs here. On a lot of matters, both sides agree (the economy is fucked, leaders are selfish liars flacking for the rich, the earth is being destroyed, this country is well on its way to becoming a police state, etc.)
What we do not agree about, is: the history that led us to this impasse,...
Same history, different takes and emphasis and bias on it, that's for sure.
...the agents behind the problems we agree exist,...
At least there is some 'consensus' that there are problems in common that are perceived by "opposing sides".
However, the strategies and techniques to solve those problems must somehow be forged with the mutual inclusion of the so-called "opposing sides" for any solution to take hold and become functional and robust.
As for who is stupid/ignorant or smart/educated in these matters, obviously there isn't much common ground to be found.
That's why I default to the power of effective political action.
I think that the functional "common ground" is to be created by the participants, the agents of change, and the ones willing to connect with the "center" and meet together at each previously opposing end and move together to the next step in solving the "problems" of greatest urgency and importance.
That is the most likely way to be the "effective political action". Otherwise, I think, we will remain mu ch divided and end-up truly and utterly conquered by the ones I refer to as (the) "elite" and their stooges (Serfs) and militia (mercenary force).
"Mad" Miles
09-02-2011, 12:40 AM
Hotspring44,
Hear, Hear!!!
I summarized what I think it takes for people to risk taking actions demanding change in my first reply.
- To grossly oversimplify, we need some combination of: utter desperation, a sense that acting to oppose our oppressors is not suicide or a fools game, a goal that seems practical, and ways to work with each other which are not rife with petty bullshit, recrimination, rumor mongering and character assassination. -
There's a lot to unpack in there. It's late, I'm tired, I've been at this for about ten hours. I'm not getting paid to do it.
About public education. Your characterization of its current state has an element of truth, many things I partially agree with. It also a regurgitation of the popular opinion of our "failing" schools. It is too broad and damning, and ignores salient aspects of reality.
Also that popular opinion is, as much as anything else, the result of a campaign in the last thirty years to defame public education, led by a conservative movement that has today almost achieved hegemony. It is the result of repeated and well-funded character assassination, or rather institutional assassination.
I know, because, among other things, from 2004-2006, I was a public school teacher in this area. Looks like this year I'll be back to subbing due to a lack of positions.
It is not true that critical thinking is no longer taught in school. It is. As for the effect of Standardized Testing, it's a huge and thoroughly discussed topic. I am not a fan. Many, if not most, teachers and administrators agree with me. It is legally and politically mandated. Why it's become paramount is a long, interesting and contested history.
Changes in our culture, our economy, our family lives, have as much to do with the state of public education, as curriculum, methodology and application of financial and human resources.
Note that in today's PD the Star results from last Spring are published. So parents can see how "good" the school they're sending their kids to is, or how "bad". Rankings based solely on standardized testing results.
Tests that have no intrinsic or extrinsic value for students. Even if they care about their grades (not all students do) the Star tests have no personal bearing on their GPA. Teachers argue its results will affect future resources available to the school. Yeah, that's a convincing and persuasive argument with adolescents.
They hate them, they know they're lame (they're boring, lowest common denominator, no challenge to the engaged and the unengaged aren't interested in the challenge) and many students, especially among the older ones who are not enthusiastic, confident or interested in school, treat them as a joke. How's that for a method to measure success and progress?
Followed these issues since Reagan, gave them extra attention when I decided to get certified. Big topic in SSU's Credential Program, regularly discussed in the break room at schools, plenty of public discussion.
Why can't we do the things experts have proven work? Just as in prison, those are new programs, we have no money, even if the new programs will save money down the road, so forget the new programs, we have no money...we spend too much as it is, the teachers unions won't allow firing of bad teachers, it's the teachers unions fault, they're too expensive, we have no money, bust the teachers unions so we can spend our limited funds on back to basics curriculum and to pay textbook companies for texts that prepare students for the standardized tests that determine if our students are making progress by being able to regurgitate what is in the textbooks, that'll be money well spent!
Most consistent across the board predictor of educational success? Socioeconomic status. It's been shown repeatedly, for years, by academics using varying statistical and survey methodologies.
Yeah, it's those lazy teachers and badly designed low brow curriculum and pedagogy approaches fault! That's it!
Guess what, I've only touched on the relevant complexities here. But I have hit a few of the low notes.
By the way, Michelle Rhee is a prevaricating opportunistic money grubber being paid, via her non-profit to lead the charge to dismantle public education and turn it into a private, profit making, business. AKA Charters. (Which have not proven to improve student performance, and in some instances, stats have declined at charters.) Her tenure at the D.C. Schools was disastrous. She cooked the books, has been exposed, and still is touted as an education "reformer".
Yeah, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are reformers too!
Admittedly, Rhee is much easier on the eyes.
Hotspring 44
09-02-2011, 03:11 AM
Hotspring44,
Hear, Hear!!!
I summarized what I think it takes for people to risk taking actions demanding change in my first reply.
- To grossly oversimplify, we need some combination of: utter desperation, a sense that acting to oppose our oppressors is not suicide or a fools game, a goal that seems practical, and ways to work with each other which are not rife with petty bullshit, recrimination, rumor mongering and character assassination. -
Agreed.
There's a lot to unpack in there. It's late, I'm tired, I've been at this for about ten hours. I'm not getting paid to do it.
About public education. Your characterization of its current state has an element of truth, many things I partially agree with. It also a regurgitation of the popular opinion of our "failing" schools. It is too broad and damning, and ignores salient aspects of reality.
My characterization was admittedly a very broad brush.
The "salient aspects" most definitely are large part of the whole problem of the political indifference to the needs at large for a educational system to work well.
Also that popular opinion is, as much as anything else, the result of a campaign in the last thirty years to defame public education, led by a conservative movement that has today almost achieved hegemony. It is the result of repeated and well-funded character assassination, or rather institutional assassination.
Yes, The perpetrators blaming their victims is business as usual, par for the course, and to be expected.
It is not true that critical thinking is no longer taught in school. It is.
With all that standardized testing with the in the box format of "passing the test" RE critical thinking leaves little time for much of it to go beyond the test passing grind, it seems to me.
As for the effect of Standardized Testing, it's a huge and thoroughly discussed topic. I am not a fan. Many, if not most, teachers and administrators agree with me. It is legally and politically mandated. Why it's become paramount is a long, interesting and contested history.
The NCLB mandate is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned the confining box and also, too, is the perpetrators blaming their victims for their causation.
Changes in our culture, our economy, our family lives, have as much to do with the state of public education, as curriculum, methodology and application of financial and human resources.
Yes our culture certainly has changed, for one thing, maybe there needs to be a <!--><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->discussion of year round school or shorter summer vacations since the vast majority of us are not farmers anymore.
As far as financial resources go, we are still a wealthy nation, we need to prioritize towards better education and all that it takes to educate the population for the future needs of society to be fulfilled.
I am not just referring to the just schools but also the environments in which people live and fact that some places need much more than investment than just "better" schools; to be successful, whole neighborhoods must be part of the improvement design too.
Note that in today's PD the Star results from last Spring are published. So parents can see how "good" the school they're sending their kids to is, or how "bad". Rankings based solely on standardized testing results.
Tests that have no intrinsic or extrinsic value for students. Even if they care about their grades (not all students do) [I]the Star tests have no personal bearing on their GPA. Teachers argue its results will affect future resources available to the school. Yeah, that's a convincing and persuasive argument with adolescents.
They hate them, they know they're lame (they're boring, lowest common denominator, no challenge to the engaged and the unengaged aren't interested in the challenge) and many students, especially among the older ones who are not enthusiastic, confident or interested in school, treat them as a joke. How's that for a method to measure success and progress?
To answer that last question: absolutely, disgustingly, idiotic, divisive, and ultimately destructive to the spirit of learning,... ...It's like a demolition of public infrastructure by way of absentmindedness and neglect of the needs and real potential of the individual... ...In other words; really bad!
Why can't we do the things experts have proven work? Just as in prison, those are new programs, we have no money, even if the new programs will save money down the road, so forget the new programs, we have no money...we spend too much as it is, the teachers unions won't allow firing of bad teachers, it's the teachers unions fault, they're too expensive, we have no money, bust the teachers unions so we can spend our limited funds on back to basics curriculum and to pay textbook companies for texts that prepare students for the standardized tests that determine if our students are making progress by being able to regurgitate what is in the textbooks, that'll be money well spent!
Do you really mean that or are you being sarcastic?:hmmm:
My most simple and incomplete answer to that is that the powers that be, hate vocational schooling and want to have a working class of drone workers so to speak to do the drudgery jobs at lowest wage humanly possible.
That is why I think there are so many prisoners here in America today to use in one way or another as a threat against the lower class labor force.
Most consistent across the board predictor of educational success? Socioeconomic status. It's been shown repeatedly, for years, by academics using varying statistical and survey methodologies.
All I can say to that this late in the night (early AM) is Jim Crow made sure to perpetuate that long into time after his death that is for sure.
Yeah, it's those lazy teachers and badly designed low brow curriculum and pedagogy approaches fault! That's it!
:thinking:More sarcasm I presume?
By the way, Michelle Rhee is a prevaricating opportunistic money grubber being paid, via her non-profit to lead the charge to dismantle public education and turn it into a private, profit making, business. AKA Charters. (Which have not proven to improve student performance, and in some instances, stats have declined at charters.) Her tenure at the D.C. Schools was disastrous. She cooked the books, has been exposed, and still is touted as an education "reformer".
Yeah, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are reformers too!
:wow:Yeah I imagine sometime in the not so distant future that students will think water-boarding is an extracurricular sport in which they can receive extra credits for in the Richard Cheney University!
"Mad" Miles
09-02-2011, 03:05 PM
The two sections, first where you ask me if I'm kidding. And the one where you ask "more sarcasm"? Were me channeling the tenor of the public debate. I was only in a small way, making a joke. Those really are the arguments that dominate in the public arena and in policy circles about why real, not fake, educational reform is "impossible".
Two major social shifts I didn't emphasize:
We now have an economy, such as it is, that requires a college degree for the better paying jobs. Assuming there are any, which obviously there aren't. That was not the case thirty, forty years ago. With a high school diploma, or even in some cases without, jobs in manufacturing and extraction paid well, the whole "middle class life style" we keep hearing union leaders, politicians, pundits and media hosts refer to.
That is no longer the case, for reasons that most people are hip to and are constantly mentioned in the debates about the economy on this board. (But usually not emphasized by the "free marketeers", i.e. job flight, finance capital seeking the highest return on investment and since labor is far cheaper elsewhere, bye, bye jobs! Well, they acknowledge it, but ascribe causes that are not the real one, the nature of our economic system).
Secondly, we now have a culture that is arguably post-literate, with the very large and significant exception of online text and cell text. But the idea of reading a book, has become less and less valued. Not that in America's anti-intellectual culture that doesn't have a longstanding basis, it's never been popular. I'm not referring to commercial pulp fiction when I say "book", I'm talking serious, substantive literature (of which there is a wide range of styles, difficulty and topics.)
But now it's even less valued among many people, especially the young. I've seen on FB and in classrooms, teenagers and young adults proudly say, "I don't read books." No one challenges them on that, it's just left there as a reasonable statement. The divide between the truly literate and the semi grows.
There was a time that may not have mattered, and where the divide was far greater. Certainly during the Dark Ages that was the case. Course that was also before the invention of the printing press...
Combine the above two with stagnant to declining incomes and economic opportunities (most jobs have sucked for decades, requiring far less than a creative, intelligent, well informed and enthusiastic person is capable of) gutting of public and social services, decay of infrastructure, a culture of superficial celebrity worship and greed. Well, just look around!
There are pockets of resistance. Communities that make their own vibrant culture.
I find that as a vidiot and film junkie that amidst the dreck, there are great dramas, comedies, documentaries and dramedies to be had. A plethora of them. Admittedly, most of them are primarily escapist, and lack an incisive and direct social critique (or hide it in irony and blasé ennui).
I'm no exception to the post-literate knock. Most of what I read, which is considerable, is online, or used to be newsprint. I always have a book I'm reading, but it takes me far longer since most of my free time (which has been considerable for the last year and a half, I'll have matriculated to 99'er status in exactly one week!! Wooohooooo!) is taken up online or watching TV.
There are a lot of theories about the cognitive differences between reading a book, watching TV, texting, surfing the net, "multitasking" (which adolescents love to claim they're masters at, but which studies show is a poor way to absorb information and develop cognitive skills). Nobody yet has a definitive answer as to what is really going on.
Since the social and psychological has often been a response to the technological, shaped by changes in the ways we communicate, work, create meaning in general, we know things are changing and there are many schools of thought about, whether that's good, bad, or a mix. (I say mix.)
The criticisms are moot, it's happening, it's not going to go away, unless and until there is a collapse of industrial, post-industrial civilization. Which many welcome as a needed curative for some of the issues I just adumbrated, and for other reasons. A fascination with Thanatos, for instance.