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geomancer
10-29-2010, 12:12 PM
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How many habitable planets are there in the galaxy? (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/10/29/how-many-habitable-planets-are-there-in-the-galaxy/)

https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2010/09/gliese581c-300x230.jpg

By now you may have heard the report (https://www.universetoday.com/76870/25-of-sun-like-stars-could-host-earth-sized-worlds/) that as many as 1/4 of all the sun-like stars in the Milky Way may have Earth-like worlds. Briefly, astronomers studied 166 stars within 80 light years of Earth, and did a survey of the planets they found orbiting them. What they found is that about 1.5% of the stars have Jupiter-mass planets, 6% have Neptune-mass ones, and about 12% have planets from 3 – 10 times the Earth’s mass.

This sample isn’t complete, and they cannot detect planets smaller than 3 times the Earth’s mass. But using some statistics, they can estimate from the trend that as many as 25% of sun-like stars have earth-mass planets orbiting them!

<hr width="10%" align="left"> Like mass?
Now, there’s a very important caveat here: these are planets that have the same mass as Earth, but that doesn’t mean they are very earth-like. The planets the team could find were very close to their parent stars, so they’d be very hot, and uninhabitable. But the good news is that if that trend in mass they saw is correct, the Milky Way is littered with planets the mass of the Earth! If some of them are in the habitable zone of their star… well.

https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2010/10/spitzermilkyway_sunscalebar.jpg

So a funny thing: I was thinking about this very problem a couple of days ago, but from a different angle. How many habitable planets are there in the Milky Way? Not just earth-mass, but also orbiting their star in the so-called Goldilocks Zone, where temperatures are right for liquid water?

There’s a way to estimate it. And it involves the planet recently announced (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/09/29/possible-earthlike-planet-found-in-the-goldilocks-zone-of-a-nearby-star/), Gliese 581g. This planet is about 3 times the Earth’s mass, and it orbits its star in the right place. We don’t know what it’s made of, if it has an atmosphere, or really very much about it at all! But given its mass and temperature, it’s potentially habitable.

The distance to the Gliese 581 system is what gets me excited: it’s 20 light years away. That’s close, compared to the vast size of our galaxy. So let’s assume Gliese 581g is the closest potentially habitable planet to us. Given that assumption, we can estimate the number of potentially habitable planets in the entire Milky Way! And the math’s not even that hard.

<hr width="10%" align="left"> The not-so-hard math
Extrapolating from our one example, let’s say that habitable planets are roughly 20 light years apart in the galaxy (as we’ll see, that number can be a lot bigger or smaller, and the end result is still cool). That means there’s one star per cube 20 light years on a side:
https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2010/10/sun_twocubes.jpg
In the drawing, each box is centered on a star, and the two stars are 20 light years apart. That means the cubes are 20 light years on a side, right? If we assume stars with livable planets are distributed throughout the galaxy like this, then there is one star per 20 x 20 x 20 = 8000 cubic light years. That’s the density of habitable planets in the galaxy.
So how many cubic light years are there in the galaxy?

A lot. Let’s say the Milky Way is a stubby cylinder 100,000 light years across, and 2500 light years thick. The equation of volume of a cylinder is
volume = π x radius of disk<sup>2</sup> x height of disk

so

volume = π x 50,000<sup>2</sup> x 2500 = 2 x 10<sup>13</sup> cubic light years

Holy wow! That’s 20 trillion cubic light years!

Now we just divide the volume of the galaxy by the density of stars with planets to get

2 x 10<sup>13</sup> / 8000 = 2,500,000,000 planets

Oh my. Yeah, let that sink in for a second. That’s 2.5 billion planets that are potentially habitable!

<hr width="10%" align="left"> What does this mean?
Well, that’s a whole lot of planets! That’s what it means.

What’s cool, too, is that this number isn’t all that far off from what you can estimate using the report from yesterday. Something like 25% of the stars in the galaxy are like the Sun (that’s a rough estimate, but close enough). That’s 50 billion stars. If 25% of those have earth-mass planets, that’s about 13 billion total, about five times the number I got. I’d call that pretty close! We made a lot of guesses here, so even a factor of ten isn’t so bad. And we’re not really comparing apples to apples, either, since they were looking for earth-mass planets, and I was looking for earth-like planets.



So think about it: 2.5 billion habitable planets is roughly enough for every man, woman, and child on Earth to each have a planet. You can see why I’m not too concerned with the exact math. Even if my numbers are way off, there could be as few as hundreds of millions of planets, or as many as maybe hundreds of billions in our galaxy alone that we could live on!

Again, the point being that mathematically speaking, there may be a lot of habitable planets out there. And who knows; some may be marginally habitable and we can terraform them. And then there are moons of worlds, too… I don’t think I’m speaking too far out of school if I were to speculate that for every perfect Terra Nova out there, there might be three or four more planets we could live on with some work.

Of course, I’m ignoring how we’d get there! But that’s an engineering problem, and given enough time — oh, say, a century or two — I imagine we can overcome a lot of those issues.

If, and when, we do, there will be a lot of real estate out there to poke around in.
Per ardua, ad astra!

Valley Oak
10-29-2010, 01:40 PM
Might this by any chance imply that there is intelligent life, other than human, in many other areas of the Milky Way? And that this life could even be FAR more advanced than ours, as well as their civilizations, and having the solutions to our rudimentary problems?

Is intelligent life on other planets a contradiction to religious assumptions about humans and the universe?

Thank you,

Edward


Blogs (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/) / Bad Astronomy (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy)

...That's 2.5 billion planets that are potentially habitable!

<hr width="10%" align="left"> What does this mean?
...25% of the stars in the galaxy are like the Sun. That’s 50 billion stars. If 25% of those have earth-mass planets, that’s about 13 billion total... And we’re not really comparing apples to apples, either, since they were looking for earth-mass planets, and I was looking for earth-like planets. ...2.5 billion habitable planets is roughly enough for every man, woman, and child on Earth to each have a planet. ...there could be as few as hundreds of millions of planets, or as many as maybe hundreds of billions in our galaxy alone that we could live on! ...there may be a lot of habitable planets out there. ...some may be marginally habitable and we can terraform them. ...there might be three or four more planets we could live on with some work.

...I’m ignoring how we’d get there...But that’s an engineering problem, and given enough time — oh, say, a century or two — I imagine we can overcome a lot of those issues. Per ardua, ad astra!

"Mad" Miles
10-29-2010, 02:06 PM
Given humanity's' track record on Terra, I would think that an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization that lets us off this planet to go screw up other planets, would not meet a standard definition of intelligence. We've got a lot of work to do, before we get let out of the playpen.

As for conflicts with belief systems on Earth, in response to your per usual provocative questions Edward/VO, all I can say is:

Who cares? What does it matter? Since nobody knows for sure anyway, why not just let the mystery unfold? We'll either find out, or not be around to worry about it, once we die. Why is everybody in such a rush?!

maguid
10-29-2010, 09:52 PM
Blogs (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/) / Bad Astronomy (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy)

So a funny thing: I was thinking about this very problem a couple of days ago, but from a different angle. How many habitable planets are there in the Milky Way? Not just earth-mass, but also orbiting their star in the so-called Goldilocks Zone, where temperatures are right for liquid water?

There’s a way to estimate it. And it involves the planet recently announced (https://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/09/29/possible-earthlike-planet-found-in-the-goldilocks-zone-of-a-nearby-star/), Gliese 581g. This planet is about 3 times the Earth’s mass, and it orbits its star in the right place. We don’t know what it’s made of, if it has an atmosphere, or really very much about it at all! But given its mass and temperature, it’s potentially habitable.



I was fascinated by your discussion. Thanks for posting it. It is inevitable that we will explore the vast reaches of space much the same way the Vikings and Columbus explored the new world. It is part of an insatiable curiosity which will drive us to seek new worlds. There are a few problems to overcome first.:wink:

There is one item which was omitted from your lesson. What we have discovered about Gliese 581g does indicate that the possibility exists for planets existing in the viable zones of many solar systems. However, Gliese 581g may not be one of them. The prediction is that Gliese 581g is tidally locked to its sun. That means that the same side of Gliese 581g always faces its sun much like our moon's always presents the same face towards the earth. Another tidal locked feature is it will not have an axial tilt and therefore no seasonality as does our earth. Without seasons and its day is as long as its year, it will be mighty hot on one side and mighty cold on the far side. If there is life there, it will have adapted to either one or the other. Or, somewhere in between as there might be a temperate band from the poles to the equator where the light angle is low enough on the horizon to afford a balance of heat dissipation. :yinyang: And, then there is the question about atmosphere.

Of course this is all academic, getting there will be at least half the fun.:wink:

sharingwisdom
10-30-2010, 01:51 AM
Good point about not screwing up other planets, but the mystery is not a total mystery. Alien visitations (non-green card humans not included) is not just about a Spielsberg movie. As far as who cares, many people do, like astronauts, the military, worldwide governments, scientists and the citizens of many countries. Obviously, you don't care, but I personally feel that it's a topic that's worth discussion anyways particularly since there was an amazing press conference at the prestigious National Press Club in Washington, DC on 9/27. Six US Air Force officers testified on their personal involvement in a major UFO cover-up. Several of them were involved in incidents where nuclear missiles were deactivated at the same time as UFOs were seen in close vicinity. Fascinating testimony! https://www.wanttoknow.info/ufos/ufos_national_press_club_witness_testimony It's wake-up time.

Former U.S. Air Force Officers Recount Experiences With UFOs at Nuclear Missile Bases
September 27, 2010, ABC News
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/airmen-govt-clean-ufos/story?id=11738715
The U.S. government's official line may be that unidentified flying objects (UFOs) don't pose a national security threat, but a group of former Air Force officers gathered Monday in the nation's capital to tell a different story.

Ex-Air Force Personnel: UFOs Deactivated Nukes
September 27, 2010, CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/28/national/main6907702.shtml
UFO researcher Robert Hastings of Albuquerque, N.M., who organized the National Press Club briefing, said more than 120 former service members had told him they'd seen unidentified flying objects near nuclear weapon storage and testing grounds. Robert Jamison, a retired USAF nuclear missile targeting officer, told of several occasions having to go out and "re-start" missiles that had been deactivated, after UFOs were sighted nearby. December 1980 incident near two Royal Air Force Bases in Suffolk, England ... several U.S. Air Force personnel reported seeing a strange metallic object hovering.

Ex-Air Force officers call UFOs and nukes a real 'security concern'
September 27, 2010, [I]USA Today
https://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/09... (https://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/09/ex--air-force-officers-discuss-ufos-and-nuclear-missiles-at-national-press-club/1)
A half-dozen former Air Force officers plan a news conference today at the National Press Club to discuss UFOs and nuclear missiles, including an alleged incident in 1967 at a Montana missile base where 10 Minuteman missiles were mysteriously deactivated as a UFO hovered overhead. Former Air Force Capt. Robert Salas, a former Minuteman missile-launch officer at Malmstrom AFB, says he was on duty during the incident in March 1967.

Former Air Force officers discuss UFO sightings
September 27, 2010, Air Force Times
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/09/ap-Former-Air-Force-officers-discuss-UFO-sightings-092710/
Armed with declassified documents and vivid details, a group of former Air Force officers gathered Monday to go public with an assertion they have kept mostly under wraps for decades: that UFOs visited the bases they were stationed at and caused nuclear weapon system to temporarily malfunction.

Aliens have deactivated British and US nuclear missiles, say US military pilots
September 27, 2010, Telegraph (One of the UK's leading newspapers)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8029045/Aliens... (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8029045/Aliens-tried-to-warn-US-and-Russia-they-were-playing-with-fire-during-Cold-War.html)
Aliens have landed, infiltrated British nuclear missile sites and deactivated the weapons, according to US military pilots.

Churchill ordered UFO cover-up, National Archives show
August 5, 2010, BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10853905
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/did-churchill-and-eisenhower-cover-up-ufo-encounter-2043641.html
The government took the threat of UFOs so seriously in the 1950s that UK intelligence chiefs met to discuss the issue, newly-released files show. Ministers even went on to commission weekly reports on UFO sightings from a committee of intelligence experts. The files show reports of UFOs peaked in 1996. The latest batch of UFO files released from the Ministry of Defence to the National Archives shows that, in 1957, the committee received reports detailing an average of one UFO sighting a week. The files also include an account of a wartime meeting attended by Winston Churchill in which, it is claimed, the prime minister was so concerned about a reported encounter between a UFO and RAF bombers, that he ordered it be kept secret for at least 50 years to prevent "mass panic". Nick Pope, who used to investigate UFO sightings for the MoD, said: "The interesting thing is that most of the UFO files from that period have been destroyed. But what happened is that a scientist whose grandfather was one of his [Churchill's] bodyguards, said look, Churchill and Eisenhower got together to cover up this phenomenal UFO sighting, that was witnessed by an RAF crew on their way back from a bombing raid. The reason apparently was because Churchill believed it would cause mass panic and it would shatter people's religious views."

UFO Sightings by Astronauts
https://www.syti.net/UFOSightings.html
This includes Cooper, Slayton, White, Walker,Cernan, White, McDivit, Lovell and Borman
https://www.openminds.tv/nasa-astronauts-disclose-ufo-encounters/
Aldrin, Mitchell and Armstrong reveal.
.


Given humanity's' track record on Terra, I would think that an intelligent extraterrestrial civilization that lets us off this planet to go screw up other planets, would not meet a standard definition of intelligence. We've got a lot of work to do, before we get let out of the playpen.

As for conflicts with belief systems on Earth, in response to your per usual provocative questions Edward/VO, all I can say is:

Who cares? What does it matter? Since nobody knows for sure anyway, why not just let the mystery unfold? We'll either find out, or not be around to worry about it, once we die. Why is everybody in such a rush?!