Hotspring 44
08-22-2010, 11:51 PM
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Hey all you quasi-luddite waccoons,
Before the Progressive era, food quality was very sketchy. Even from local producers. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And today it still is, but for some different (and also same such as unsanitary processing practices) reasons such as pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, runoffs of those things into rivers, streams, lakes, and in the ocean causing toxins that go into the environment and ultimately into our drinking water systems etc. . <o:p></o:p>
That is just agricultural part of it. <o:p></o:p>
Then there is the pharmaceutical part which also, ultimately as its own aspect that ends up with unintended input of pharmaceuticals into the drinking water system by way of, not being able to process out those chemicals from the drinking water systems “purification” and filtration.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Ever read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair? <o:p></o:p>
No, I have not.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It was instrumental in the founding of the FDA. Remember the scene in, "The Road To Wellville", where Dana Carvey's creepy character goes against his father, Dr. Kellog (yes, the Kellog of corn flakes) and eats in a local steak joint? Recall the sanitation there? That was no exaggeration. That was normal way far back in the day. There's a reason those laws got written and those bureaucracies got founded. People were dieing. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Just because something got founded for good reasons doesn't mean it is not infallible or not corruptible.<o:p></o:p>
I still believe that as far as organic is concerned that the FDA is understaffed, and therefore, if for no other reason than that incapable of dealing with the organic almonds for example. So they put everybody there grows almonds in the same category and forces them by way of law in such a way that it is impossible to get organic raw home in California. <o:p></o:p>
Also at the same time, the FDA allows arsenic to be added into animal feed. For purposes other than getting rid of parasites. It Is specifically for the purpose of fattening the stock. <o:p></o:p>
The list goes on, but my point is that there are certain political and financial interests that have infiltrated a protection system which has ultimately undermined, in many ways its reason for existing in the first place (the FDA).
I'm no fan of industrial agriculture and factory animal husbandry. But it's how the masses are fed these days, and for over a hundred years in industrial, post-industrial societies. And yes, unless you're a subsistence farmer, you're part of the "masses" I'm referring to.
It's the market, it's the market, it's the market. Cheaper, faster, more. So mistakes get made because corners get cut. In an age of massive deregulation, where the budget for food inspectors and prosecutions of food safety law violators have been gutted for decades. More E Coli, Salmonella, etc. slips through the crack. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Yup. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
You can thank the trend, since at least 1980 (aka The Reagan Era), to cut big government and let the "free" market prevail. For that freedom to profit, we can thank the "reformers" for: Deep Horizon / BP's Gusher, Food Contamination from Big Ag, Katrina (U.S. Army Corps knew decades before that MRGO and the levees were vulnerable, Congress didn't want to foot the bill, gotta fund the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan so they can fight the Commies, funding the Contras in Nicaragua wasn't cheap, once Congress stopped the gravy train, alternative funding sources needed to be worked out with Iraq, Columbia and Israel), and lots of other disasters due to the crumbling of our infrastructure because the dominant political trend is to not pay for what we need. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Yup, that's pretty much the gist of what I've been saying to the preachers and fanatics of the free-market cannibalism ... ... I mean (capitalism) crowd.
A similar phenomenon occurred in the settling of the wild, untamed wilderness by European immigrants. What areas the Indians hadn't died off in from disease, they were slaughtered, interned, moved away. Then the hungry people with guns came. Within only decades, wild game populations plummeted. (There are areas of metropolitan suburbs that could use more hunting now. The whitetail have no predators, other than the automobile and truck, and their populations are outstripping the food supply. Disease and starvation have come back for deer in the midwest and northeast of dis land. When it gets too obvious to ignore, local managers deal with it. But resistance to shooting Bambi makes that a hard sell.) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Deer hunting around certain suburbs? Hmmm, what an interesting concept!
We love to write and talk about food around these parts. (Guilty!) Slow food, healthy food, organic food, local food, sustainable food, foodies, haute cuisine, affordable family food, cheap food, etc.
I'm all for it. But the bottom line is that as the economy tanks and populations swell, the real discussion will become, where's the food, how can I get some food, I need food my kids are starving, give me your food or else! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
That really got on the fast track, (if my memory serves me correctly) during the Bill Clinton era; with the North American free trade act, the doing away with Glass-Steagall act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act) (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act)) and other compromises that were made by the Clinton administration to satisfy the so-called bipartisan ism, which was supposed to be a selling point, not a sellout but ended up at this point in time looking more like a sellout to the ultra big business interests. <o:p></o:p>
Quality, purity, safety, under those circumstances? To paraphrase Anthony Zimmern, "If it doesn't glow, eat it!" <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I'm not so sure about that just because it's not radioactive afterglow doesn't mean it's not toxic. <o:p></o:p>
That might be a good one-liner, but not the best way to choose food.
We seem to be having some real difficulty prioritizing these days. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So I guess one question would be; if I was starving would I eat any of those eggs that are suspected of having Salmonella or E. coli contamination? <o:p></o:p>
The answer is yes of course as long as I was able to cook them enough. <o:p></o:p>
The next question is would I trust those eggs or the chicken meat if it had the arsenic in it? <o:p></o:p>
The answer is probably no. If I was starving I might decide to eat it instead of starving to death, but not as regular, daily diet. <o:p></o:p>
Would I eat farmed fish? The answer to that is yes. But I would want it to be thoroughly cooked, and preferably from an area I knew was not polluted with residues from any kind of mining such as mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, uranium, or industrial and/or agricultural runoff or other toxic pollutants that cannot be cooked out.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Food most definitely is a very high priority. Therefore, the food, and also water must not be toxic, either. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So when you say; something like “We seem to be having some real difficulty prioritizing”... ... I'm assuming you mean we as a country as a whole and not necessarily as individuals here on waccobb.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Oh and about sustainable gardening. Here are a few links I gleaned from: https://www.sacgardens.org/ <o:p></o:p>
/<o:p></o:p>
The rise and fall of school gardens in New York . . . (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Bumblebees need gardeners' help . . . (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Can bacteria make you smarter? (https://www.sacgardens.org/) The $1 garden (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Pesticides everywhere: help to avoid them (https://www.sacgardens.org/) The grass is greener at Harvard (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Weed-whacking herbicide proves deadly to human cells (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Urban farm tells how to grow vegetables-and cook them (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Compost powers USDA's organic People's Garden (https://www.sacgardens.org/articlesGarden/compostUsda_garden4_09a.pdf) Edible Garden Planned for Capitol Park - Sac. CA (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Obamas to plant vegetable garden at White House (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Rain: Saving it for a sunny day includes easy ... (https://www.sacgardens.org/) City Chicken (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Green From the Ground Up (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Farmer in Chief (https://www.sacgardens.org/)Nature loss 'dwarfs bank crisis' (https://www.sacgardens.org/) No way to bee (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Swap seeds this season (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Slow food savors big moment (https://www.sacgardens.org/) A locally grown diet with fuss but no muss (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Nonprofit group wants farms near urban homes (https://www.sacgardens.org/) No-dig crops help reduce water (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Rain gardens capture storm water, clean it up (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Banking on Gardening (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Bike tour finds gardens blossoming in city lots (https://www.sacgardens.org/) We're in love with our lawns (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Exhibit gives the dirt on lawns (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Consumer tips for choosing healthy food (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Permaculture: beyond the garden (https://www.sacgardens.org/) A Rose Is [[I]Not] a Rose (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
In a forest's breath, deciphering climate clues (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Why we will all be gardeners (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Prairie Revival (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Sterile soil, dirty hands (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
At park, a new garden sets example (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Prof's new book focuses on critical role of native plants (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Organic food is healthier (https://www.sacgardens.org/): study <o:p></o:p>
Don't Think 'Yard,' Think 'Habitat' (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Disappearing Honeybee and Native Bee articles (https://www.sacgardens.org/gardenArticles.html)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Hey all you quasi-luddite waccoons,
Before the Progressive era, food quality was very sketchy. Even from local producers. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And today it still is, but for some different (and also same such as unsanitary processing practices) reasons such as pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, runoffs of those things into rivers, streams, lakes, and in the ocean causing toxins that go into the environment and ultimately into our drinking water systems etc. . <o:p></o:p>
That is just agricultural part of it. <o:p></o:p>
Then there is the pharmaceutical part which also, ultimately as its own aspect that ends up with unintended input of pharmaceuticals into the drinking water system by way of, not being able to process out those chemicals from the drinking water systems “purification” and filtration.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Ever read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair? <o:p></o:p>
No, I have not.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It was instrumental in the founding of the FDA. Remember the scene in, "The Road To Wellville", where Dana Carvey's creepy character goes against his father, Dr. Kellog (yes, the Kellog of corn flakes) and eats in a local steak joint? Recall the sanitation there? That was no exaggeration. That was normal way far back in the day. There's a reason those laws got written and those bureaucracies got founded. People were dieing. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Just because something got founded for good reasons doesn't mean it is not infallible or not corruptible.<o:p></o:p>
I still believe that as far as organic is concerned that the FDA is understaffed, and therefore, if for no other reason than that incapable of dealing with the organic almonds for example. So they put everybody there grows almonds in the same category and forces them by way of law in such a way that it is impossible to get organic raw home in California. <o:p></o:p>
Also at the same time, the FDA allows arsenic to be added into animal feed. For purposes other than getting rid of parasites. It Is specifically for the purpose of fattening the stock. <o:p></o:p>
The list goes on, but my point is that there are certain political and financial interests that have infiltrated a protection system which has ultimately undermined, in many ways its reason for existing in the first place (the FDA).
I'm no fan of industrial agriculture and factory animal husbandry. But it's how the masses are fed these days, and for over a hundred years in industrial, post-industrial societies. And yes, unless you're a subsistence farmer, you're part of the "masses" I'm referring to.
It's the market, it's the market, it's the market. Cheaper, faster, more. So mistakes get made because corners get cut. In an age of massive deregulation, where the budget for food inspectors and prosecutions of food safety law violators have been gutted for decades. More E Coli, Salmonella, etc. slips through the crack. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Yup. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
You can thank the trend, since at least 1980 (aka The Reagan Era), to cut big government and let the "free" market prevail. For that freedom to profit, we can thank the "reformers" for: Deep Horizon / BP's Gusher, Food Contamination from Big Ag, Katrina (U.S. Army Corps knew decades before that MRGO and the levees were vulnerable, Congress didn't want to foot the bill, gotta fund the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan so they can fight the Commies, funding the Contras in Nicaragua wasn't cheap, once Congress stopped the gravy train, alternative funding sources needed to be worked out with Iraq, Columbia and Israel), and lots of other disasters due to the crumbling of our infrastructure because the dominant political trend is to not pay for what we need. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Yup, that's pretty much the gist of what I've been saying to the preachers and fanatics of the free-market cannibalism ... ... I mean (capitalism) crowd.
A similar phenomenon occurred in the settling of the wild, untamed wilderness by European immigrants. What areas the Indians hadn't died off in from disease, they were slaughtered, interned, moved away. Then the hungry people with guns came. Within only decades, wild game populations plummeted. (There are areas of metropolitan suburbs that could use more hunting now. The whitetail have no predators, other than the automobile and truck, and their populations are outstripping the food supply. Disease and starvation have come back for deer in the midwest and northeast of dis land. When it gets too obvious to ignore, local managers deal with it. But resistance to shooting Bambi makes that a hard sell.) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Deer hunting around certain suburbs? Hmmm, what an interesting concept!
We love to write and talk about food around these parts. (Guilty!) Slow food, healthy food, organic food, local food, sustainable food, foodies, haute cuisine, affordable family food, cheap food, etc.
I'm all for it. But the bottom line is that as the economy tanks and populations swell, the real discussion will become, where's the food, how can I get some food, I need food my kids are starving, give me your food or else! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
That really got on the fast track, (if my memory serves me correctly) during the Bill Clinton era; with the North American free trade act, the doing away with Glass-Steagall act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act) (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act)) and other compromises that were made by the Clinton administration to satisfy the so-called bipartisan ism, which was supposed to be a selling point, not a sellout but ended up at this point in time looking more like a sellout to the ultra big business interests. <o:p></o:p>
Quality, purity, safety, under those circumstances? To paraphrase Anthony Zimmern, "If it doesn't glow, eat it!" <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I'm not so sure about that just because it's not radioactive afterglow doesn't mean it's not toxic. <o:p></o:p>
That might be a good one-liner, but not the best way to choose food.
We seem to be having some real difficulty prioritizing these days. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So I guess one question would be; if I was starving would I eat any of those eggs that are suspected of having Salmonella or E. coli contamination? <o:p></o:p>
The answer is yes of course as long as I was able to cook them enough. <o:p></o:p>
The next question is would I trust those eggs or the chicken meat if it had the arsenic in it? <o:p></o:p>
The answer is probably no. If I was starving I might decide to eat it instead of starving to death, but not as regular, daily diet. <o:p></o:p>
Would I eat farmed fish? The answer to that is yes. But I would want it to be thoroughly cooked, and preferably from an area I knew was not polluted with residues from any kind of mining such as mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, uranium, or industrial and/or agricultural runoff or other toxic pollutants that cannot be cooked out.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Food most definitely is a very high priority. Therefore, the food, and also water must not be toxic, either. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So when you say; something like “We seem to be having some real difficulty prioritizing”... ... I'm assuming you mean we as a country as a whole and not necessarily as individuals here on waccobb.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Oh and about sustainable gardening. Here are a few links I gleaned from: https://www.sacgardens.org/ <o:p></o:p>
/<o:p></o:p>
The rise and fall of school gardens in New York . . . (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Bumblebees need gardeners' help . . . (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Can bacteria make you smarter? (https://www.sacgardens.org/) The $1 garden (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Pesticides everywhere: help to avoid them (https://www.sacgardens.org/) The grass is greener at Harvard (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Weed-whacking herbicide proves deadly to human cells (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Urban farm tells how to grow vegetables-and cook them (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Compost powers USDA's organic People's Garden (https://www.sacgardens.org/articlesGarden/compostUsda_garden4_09a.pdf) Edible Garden Planned for Capitol Park - Sac. CA (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Obamas to plant vegetable garden at White House (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Rain: Saving it for a sunny day includes easy ... (https://www.sacgardens.org/) City Chicken (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Green From the Ground Up (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Farmer in Chief (https://www.sacgardens.org/)Nature loss 'dwarfs bank crisis' (https://www.sacgardens.org/) No way to bee (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Swap seeds this season (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Slow food savors big moment (https://www.sacgardens.org/) A locally grown diet with fuss but no muss (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Nonprofit group wants farms near urban homes (https://www.sacgardens.org/) No-dig crops help reduce water (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Rain gardens capture storm water, clean it up (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Banking on Gardening (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Bike tour finds gardens blossoming in city lots (https://www.sacgardens.org/) We're in love with our lawns (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Exhibit gives the dirt on lawns (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
Consumer tips for choosing healthy food (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Permaculture: beyond the garden (https://www.sacgardens.org/) A Rose Is [[I]Not] a Rose (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
In a forest's breath, deciphering climate clues (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Why we will all be gardeners (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Prairie Revival (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Sterile soil, dirty hands (https://www.sacgardens.org/)<o:p></o:p>
At park, a new garden sets example (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Prof's new book focuses on critical role of native plants (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Organic food is healthier (https://www.sacgardens.org/): study <o:p></o:p>
Don't Think 'Yard,' Think 'Habitat' (https://www.sacgardens.org/) Disappearing Honeybee and Native Bee articles (https://www.sacgardens.org/gardenArticles.html)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>