Impeachment Resolution written by Veterans for Peace/Endorsed by Cindy Sheehan [Archive]

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pnicholson

07-20-2010, 10:31 PM

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July 19, 2010 - Recently, I received an email from Veterans for Peace (VFP) Chapter 136 in Central Florida asking me for an endorsement of its resolution to impeach Barack Obama...In 2007, I announced my electoral challenge to Speaker of the House, Nancy "Impeachment off the Table" Pelosi because I felt so strongly in this Constitutional remedy to a criminal executive. Did I believe I would win? Just about as much as I believe that Nancy will impeach someone from her own party if she wouldn’t impeach a scoundrel like Bush. But like VFP’s resolution says: "We want to emphasize that our chapter’s call for the Impeachment of President Obama for war crimes is not based on whether or not Impeachment is likely to occur, but rather our call for Impeachment is based on what we as Veterans For Peace feel is our duty in the case where war crimes are being committed under the command and authority of any United States President."...
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Impeach Obama?

<small> <xxa href="https://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.com/2010/07/impeach-obama-cindy-sheehan.html" target="_new">Cindy Sheehan</xxa></small>

<small> </small><small> </small> <small> </small>
<center><table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td valign="middle" width="100%" align="justify">July 19, 2010

<link rel="File-List" href="file://localhost/Users/cindysheehan/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/msoclip/0clip_filelist.xml"> <link rel="Edit-Time-Data" href="file://localhost/Users/cindysheehan/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/msoclip/0clip_editdata.mso">  <style>  </style>  

[I]"Trouble is that, like god, impeachment does not exist"<o:p></o:p>

[I]David Swanson, progressive author and activist<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>
Recently, I received an email from Veterans for Peace (VFP) Chapter 136 in Central Florida asking me for an endorsement of its resolution to impeach Barack Obama.<o:p></o:p>

First of all, I would like to commend the Central Florida chapter for its integrity and vision for peace that this resolution exhibits. In my own experience, it’s not even popular to criticize the Dalai Bama, let alone call for his removal from office. Kudos!<o:p></o:p>

Secondly, even though Chapter 136 uses the EXACT SAME references and charges that National VFP used for its resolution to impeach Bush and Cheney, I have little hope that National VFP will pass a similar resolution at its national convention. It’s unfortunate that standards are rarely applied equally across the board. I "hope" I am wrong. <o:p></o:p>

In 2005, National VFP called for impeaching the Bush criminals even before it was en vogue to be against the regime. I remember being severely and thoroughly attacked by the left, right and in between for riding to Crawford in a bus driven by VFP members that had "IMPEACH BUSH" written across the sides in huge letters. On November 5<sup>th</sup>, 2004, I was myself in the avant-garde of calling for Bush’s impeachment just a day after his "re-election" to a second term.<o:p></o:p>

In 2007, I announced my electoral challenge to Speaker of the House, Nancy "Impeachment off the Table" Pelosi because I felt so strongly in this Constitutional remedy to a criminal executive. Did I believe I would win? Just about as much as I believe that Nancy will impeach someone from her own party if she wouldn’t impeach a scoundrel like Bush. <o:p></o:p>

But like VFP’s resolution says: "We want to emphasize that our chapter’s call for the Impeachment of President Obama for war crimes is not based on whether or not Impeachment is likely to occur, but rather our call for Impeachment is based on what we as Veterans For Peace feel is our duty in the case where war crimes are being committed under the command and authority of any United States President."<o:p></o:p>

This is the text of the resolution:

https://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=68095&s2=20

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Speak2Truth

07-23-2010, 06:27 PM

In Santa Barbara, CA, I attended a speaking engagement organized by Veterans for Peace where the guest star was Cindy Sheehan. The handout at the door was the Revolutionary Communist Party newspaper. The VFP leader there, Lane Anderson, is also a guy who rallies Leftist students on campus to harass military recruiters on job fair day. Top Democrat leaders in town came out to show solidarity with Cindy Sheehan, who insisted that Hugo Chavez should be the President of the United States. These Democrat leaders included Hanna-beth Jackson and Mayor Marty Blum. I did not notice any Republicans showing solidarity with this Communist gathering.

Also touted at the engagement was a video called "Arlington West", which was to be distributed through the schools to frighten young people away from military enlistment. The assertion was that once there is no more US Military, the world would be safe again, presumably for Communist Imperialism (the US military being the primary obstacle over the past few decades).

On the back of that Communist Party newspaper handout, one of the stated agenda items was the destruction of the American System - something Obama now calls "fundamental transformation".

Think about it.

"Mad" Miles

07-23-2010, 07:08 PM

So, a key piece of your evidence that the anti-war movement is riddled with communist/socialist would be destroyers of all that is good and just (aka The USA) is because the RCP shows up and tries to sell their paper at pretty much every political gathering on the Left that happens in a big enough municipality that they can get one of their members or supporters to. Bob Avakian would be so happy to hear that.

By that light, if the KKK or Neo-Nazis flack their rags at a gathering of the anti-undocumented immigrant movement, that would be proof that everyone exercised and angry about illegal labor, is listening to Adolf Hitler on books on tape, and cheering wildly whenever he shouts, "Kampf!".

You can't have it one way, without the other. That's just not "logical".

Speak2Truth

07-23-2010, 07:11 PM

I just reported the facts of the event that I personally observed.

You have responded by blathering some broad generalities made up from your own mind. Would you like to provide supporting evidence for your assertions?

Really, Miles, you are still making no effort to engage in honest discussion.

"Mad" Miles

07-23-2010, 08:07 PM

I have clearly stated my reasons for not taking you seriously, for not treating you as a rational discussant of issues, for why I treat your absurd, biased, bloated, hyper-paranoid and blinkered claims for what they are.

Rightwing, conservative, propaganda points being made by an ideologue who gets his information from demogogues and liars.

To the extent anything you say here is factually true, and bits and pieces are, that truth is buried in a swill of exaggerated and shaded bias designed to further the demonization of your perceived enemies.

You probably believe what you're spouting. That's the biggest tragedy here.

Because your beliefs are so far to the right, so extreme, that they leave no room for compromise, honest inquiry, and open discussion.

All of your arguments start from premises that leave no room for doubt or discussion, at least from your perspective. I am not about to waste any time refuting your paranoid and out of touch world view.

I don't suffer fools and liars gladly.

There is nothing to be gained from crossing rhetorical and scholarly swords with someone who is so far out to lunch as you. It would require a detailed course in history, philosophy, sociology, psychology, anthropology and every other field in the humanities and social sciences to be able to begin to reach some common ground.

You're not interested in communication, discussion and debate. You're interested in disseminating paranoid and hateful propaganda. You're a conservative warrior in the culture wars of the last few decades. You're a spreader of half-truths, myths and outright lies.

Why would I treat you seriously?

Why should I have any respect for you whatsoever?

You're not going to change your mind. You're not going to change anybody else's mind, at least anyone else with a modicum of intelligence and knowledge about the subjects you belabor.

But, hey, you have the right to babble anything you want here. As long as you maintain a modicum of respect and civility.

So, knock yourself out.

I refute and disparage some of your contributions, because it pleases me to do so.

It's a performance. And I get to vent too. Whoohoo!

Do you think anybody else, except for a small group of people intrigued by political jousting, even cares about what you and I have to say to each other?

Dream on.

My serious purpose in challenging you here, is because you seem to be motivated primarily by hate and fear. Hatred of any ideas and views to the Left of the moderate conservative center. Fear of forces you think are scheming to destroy the country you love.

There's no hope, in that. I won't say there's no love, because you clearly love your conception of what this country is about. But you'll never be willing to question that conception. You show no sign of ever having faced the possibility that the glorious country that you apparently worship, was never the paragon of virtue, truth and justice that you make it out to be. I don't think you're willing or able to take that job on.

I love my country as well, but I'm willing to look at the warts, the crimes perpetrated by some of its leaders and their followers. The hypocrisy and lies that many of its reported values serve to cover up.

I think in terms of relative forces, values, interests, options. You think in terms of good/bad, just/unjust, true/false. In the final analysis choices have to be made, so I may end up deciding which side of the binary opposition an issue, plan or personality falls on.

But I don't start there, and there's a process of thinking that takes into account many competing factors, including conceptual tropes, that lead to a decision. In other words my process of analysis is not binary, and when a final decision is not necessary, when the goal is understanding complexity and nuance, without having to decide the winner, my thinking doesn't rely on "having the answer." Your's does.

You want to decide who is right and who is wrong. Sometimes everyone is right and wrong at the same time, in different ways. I doubt you are capable of even understanding what I mean by that.

You live in a dream, which you don't even acknowledge, defined by the unquestioned assumptions that you hold. I know I live in a dream, and question all of my own assumptions that may limit my ability to understand things in as close a way to how they really are. All the while knowing this is an impossible task given the nature of human thought and desire.

It's a task worth pursuing all the same, knowing that the horizon of truth will recede before me even while I try to discover it.

We live in very different worlds. I like mine much more than yours. Yours has a story, that is so simple, that only children, or those who think like them, would find plausible, let alone interesting.

Our worlds are so different that the fact that we can even communicate anything at all to each other, is probably some kind of miracle.

Speak2Truth

07-23-2010, 08:20 PM

Miles, you have been incapable of engaging in discussion of the facts I present. If you wish to assert that only tiny parts of them are true then feel free to present evidence regarding what is not true. You have been incapable of doing so to this point.

My serious purpose in challenging you here, is because you seem to be motivated primarily by hate and fear.

You don't challenge me. I'm asking you to do so, to challenge me with factual information, supported perhaps by some links to sources, as I am doing. Please, try.

I am approaching these subjects motivated by Truth and Intellectual Curiosity. I follow the facts where they lead. There is no emotion involved. That is entirely a contrivance of your own imagination.

Fear of forces you think are scheming to destroy the country you love.

When Americans went to war against the Socialist Workers Party of Germany, knowing that was their sworn enemy, would you have reduced their motivations to a word you use in a belittling sense? Fear?

When Americans take Communists at their word, when Communists swear they will destroy the American system, why does your small mind reduce a logical reaction to their motivation to.... fear?

A rational man kills the lion that threatens his children - not out of "fear" (that implies mere emotionality) but out of good sense and reason.

You show no sign of ever having faced the possibility that the glorious country that you apparently worship, was never the paragon of virtue, truth and justice that you make it out to be. I don't think you're willing or able to take that job on.

Of course I am. I'm the first guy to point out that even at its inception, this nation could not address some of the greater evils that had to be addressed in order to live up to its founding principles.

However - in the global struggle between Socialists, Islamists and Freemen, I have absolutely no problem choosing sides.

Socialists and Islamists are the enemies of every freedom-loving human being. So, despite our nation's flaws (many of them a result of Socialists gaining power), I can side WITH our nation and work to improve it. I will do nothing to give our enemies a leg up.

I stand firmly against the ilk of Marxists like Reverend Wright who seek to poison the minds of Americans in his congregation, to make them actually HATE our country so they can be easily reprogrammed to love our enemies. That game is transparent.

I don't hate the lion. I just do what it takes to ensure it cannot threaten those I love. That is purely rational, not emotional.

"Mad" Miles

07-23-2010, 09:03 PM

Miles, you have been incapable of engaging in discussion of the facts I present. If you wish to assert that only tiny parts of them are true then feel free to present evidence regarding what is not true. You have been incapable of doing so to this point.

One last time. I haven't tried to refute your facts with counterfacts. So you have no basis to claim I'm "incapable" of doing something, which I have not attempted to do. Nor will be I willing to attempt to do so, in the future.

Just because I consider it a waste of time, does not mean I am unable.

Why haven't I opposed you with "facts" as you define them?

Read my shit. Asked and answered. But....

The assumptions behind your facts, are so flawed, that a discussion of facts cannot even begin, until we agree on terms and how to understand them. Trying to do that with you? A futile effort.

I used to debate "facts" with Leninists. Who pretty much had the same world view and system of "rationality" that you have. Except that you're on opposite political sides. (Sides in a war that's dead and buried. But you're insistent up digging up and reigniting. As for the Leninists? They're even more irrelevant to the politics of this country than they've always been.)

That was also a waste of time. It ended up being a repetitious argument about whether "reality" (social reality in this case) was "objective" or "subjective" in nature. They thought the former, I emphasize the latter. I quit after numerous times. It never led to any changes of mind. And it quickly became boring.

Eventually the irritant that I posed to them led to an orchestrated mini-purge to vote me out of the bookstore collective. It was a relief. I had much more interesting things to do.

And I'd had plenty of opportunities to point out the contradiction between their stated goals, and their methods, as well as the contradiction between their world view, and the demonstrable reality in which they were living. It certainly didn't endear me to them.

I have no interest in starting the same tedious and useless process with you. Bait, or ask, me all you want, it won't happen.

There's a quote from the coverage of Breitbart in Slate.com that is relevant:

"Follow the back-and-forth closely, and you'll quickly find yourself deep down a rabbit hole of charges, countercharges, and counter-countercharges over such details as..."

Once again, I will not waste my time in such a futile and puerile activity. I know for every fact I come up with, to dispute one of yours, you'll come up with one or more to contradict my contradiction.

Fehgedaboudit!

Your repetition of the claim that slavery in the New World, was first engaged in by a Free Black man, is a disgusting and horrific lie. But I already addressed that in my response to your post, where you first made the claim. The fucking Spanish and Portugeuse!!!

Are you so obtusely ignorant of, or willingly blinkered about, the basic history of European colonialism in the 1500's as they expanded out from Europe that you don't know that?

I doubt it.

You're just asserting it to make a political point, lame as it is, in service of your partisan war against, whatever it is you deem the enemy.

Someone in the Slate.com discussion today, following the Saletan article, trotted out the same bullshit. He was handily dealt with.

Anyone reading this, and is interested, check it out. (No link, it's in the comments, after Saletan's Breitbart article.)

"A lie repeated often enough, becomes the truth."

"There's lies, damned lies and statistics..."

Don't recall the exact sources, and the second one is probably wrong, but I'm done for now. And that's a FACT!

kpage9

07-23-2010, 09:25 PM

Hi Speak,

I notice that you posted exactly two minutes after Miles did, at least if the clock on this thing is right. Does that give you enough time to really take in his points? Do you do that?

kathy

[quote=Speak2Truth;119116]Miles, you have been incapable of engaging in discussion of the facts I present. If you wish to assert that only tiny parts of them are true then feel free to present evidence regarding what is not true. You have been incapable of doing so to this point.

pnicholson

07-23-2010, 09:26 PM

i do think about it, speak2truth. about the seemingly endless entanglements, lies, staged opposition, agents provocateur, double-speak, shills, gatekeepers, cover-ups, false flag events, manipulation, indoctrination, deception within deception.

i know it's there and i move through it as perspicaciously as i can. and i cannot account for all of it all at the same time or in every action i take or choice i make. but i cannot stop functioning and moving forward because of it. while not always knowing what the exact truth of a matter is, i do know what my truth is. that helps a great deal.

at best we can agree to disagree on the military thing. while a seemingly incongruous juxtaposition, i stand with ron paul and cindy sheehan on war and the military. between the two of them is covered every reason, practical and humane, to stop all wars. and that is my truth.

i do not wish to live under socialism or communism. i intuitively move away from collectivism and community/cooperation can thrive without communism. and some of the words you cite in your post re communism are distressing to me. and i appreciate the similarities to the newinternationalorder. but i am navigating a course here and i do not want to discard everyone who has some desires that are incompatible with some of mine. i can be in a roomful of alcoholics and support them in this area or that but there is no danger of my becoming an alcoholic because of that. it would be anathema to all that is life to me.

it is not uncommon for people, who are pushed to the edge by one side, say, capitalism (or fascism), to push back so hard that they end up on the opposite side, socialism/communism. the socialist and communist networks have a decidedly too-good-to-pass-up opportunity here to gain some adherents, albeit some temporary, among those dreadfully fed up with capitalism and they are taking advantage of it in every way they can.

we have to be careful here not to accept an ism simply because it is very different from the current hated ism. the election of obama demonstrates that. we should reap the wisdom from our past experience.

and yes, the democratic party does tend toward socialism. the republican the other extreme. but is that not by design? and is it not working well? one can move so far left that he ends up on the right! either way, it is profitable for the rulers and toxic for the citizens. could those possibly be our only choices?

i don't think so. in between the left and the right exists a government by, for, and of the people. well-being for all through natural caring and cooperation and the pursuit of happiness in freedom. rewarding for the citizens and not terribly profitable for would-be rulers.

we are not supposed to see behind that door. but i am curious.

and you?

In Santa Barbara, CA, I attended a speaking engagement organized by Veterans for Peace where the guest star was Cindy Sheehan. The handout at the door was the Revolutionary Communist Party newspaper ... On the back of that Communist Party newspaper handout, one of the stated agenda items was the destruction of the American System - something Obama now calls "fundamental transformation".

Think about it.

pnicholson

07-23-2010, 09:35 PM

i forgot something.

there were so many reasons to not impeach the previous criminal administration. so lots of the worst criminals then are in the current administration and other heinous criminals are roaming the planet freely and collecting great big speaking fees to impart their wisdom here and there. and commit more crimes, of course.

sometimes you must take the appropriate next step. you must do what needs to be done to bring about and maintain justice. even if you don't know exactly what is going to happen when you take that step.

we didn't take it last time. now we know what happens.

Speak2Truth

07-23-2010, 10:50 PM

there were so many reasons to not impeach the previous criminal administration

The only reason TO impeach, that I can think of within the legitimate purpose of that act, was their failure to "repel invasion" as mandated by the US Constitution, Article IV, Section 4.

What did you have in mind?

And, yes, now we do know what happens due to that failure. The invasion continues and the current Administration seeks to take it to the next step - to give it legitimate voting power in the US. This is a Clear and Present Danger.[/quote]

i do think about it, speak2truth. about the seemingly endless entanglements, lies, staged opposition, agents provocateur, double-speak, shills, gatekeepers, cover-ups, false flag events, manipulation, indoctrination, deception within deception.I admire you for taking notice and thinking about these things. My concern is that so many of those alleged issues are themselves deceptions and manipulations staged to "de-moralize" the American People and break down our will to stand united against certain ideologies that are indisputably our enemies.

By "enemy", I mean that they make no secret of their intention to take away what we value most, our Natural Rights and our liberty from tyrannical (unbound by law) Government. Look how far they've taken us that direction.

we have to be careful here not to accept an ism simply because it is very different from the current hated ism. the election of obama demonstrates that. we should reap the wisdom from our past experience.We are in total agreement on that. It is my key motivation to explore these issues, to seek as much information as I can, to understand the details rather than be led by "isms".

Have you read the newly popular book, "The 5000 Year Leap"? I consider it a good starting point to understand the founding principles of America, principles that in my own experience and observation truly are a 5000 year leap in human progress. I just finished the book yesterday and am now doing more research based on the information therein.

the democratic party does tend toward socialism. the republican the other extremeWhat do you call the other extreme? Have you taken the time to attend Republican meetings, to get to know where they stand? I have attended meetings of Democrats, Republicans, Green Party, Libertarians, Communists (aka Democrats), Aztlanists, the National Rifle Association, the TEA Party, North Bay Patriots, various business associations... my intent is to then weigh the plethora of "information" we get second-hand to best correlate what is presented to us with what is closest to the observable truth.

Democrats don't just tend toward socialism - their party is now controlled by Communists whose determination is to sink this nation into unrecoverable debt and to drain its assets and hand them out to other nations. Enemy activity. And Progressive Communists always hide this activity behind "feel-good" stuff like education, helping the poor, medical programs, whatever. That is pure camouflage. They did that to gain power in Afghanistan too. Their true goal is to build coalitions of power to seize your assets and redistribute those assets to their buddies.

Barack Obama lamented that our US Supreme Court could not be used to do that, since it was bound by the Constitution...

Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered
"Tragedy" of Civil Rights movement was that it focused on court and laws, could not use Supreme Court for redistributive change
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Republicans tend toward the other "extreme", as you say, which is the founding principles of our nation - prosperity and liberty under a government that defends our Natural Rights and that follows proven business practices leading to national prosperity. That's a HORRIBLY GENERAL brush to paint on all Republicans but it is the Party trend. Some notable Republicans are in the opposite camp, for sure.

I am here to peer behind the curtain and see who is doing what. That's why I take the time to go see for myself. When I come to these forums to speak on these issues, I am not merely echoing second-hand information. My assertions are founded in direct observation.

That's why I went to the Cindy Sheehan gathering, met her Communist handler, spent time observing Lane Anderson and the Veterans for Peace group, met with one of the former Communist rulers of Afghanistan (Suraya Parlika), met with (and had a dinner discussion with) the woman who was actually elected to the Afghan Parliament (Malalai Joya), collected footage to expose the true horrors of the Mexican invasion (see the documentary "Border").... and so on.

I am peering behind the curtain and relating to others what I have found.

Some folks are interested in learning. Others are so devoutly ideological that they seem to go berzerk when presented with the opportunity to learn.

"Mad" Miles

07-23-2010, 11:03 PM

...I am approaching these subjects motivated by Truth and Intellectual Curiosity. I follow the facts where they lead. There is no emotion involved ... When Americans went to war against the Socialist Workers Party of Germany, knowing that was their sworn enemy, would you have reduced their motivations to a word you use in a belittling sense? Fear?

When Americans take Communists at their word, when Communists swear they will destroy the American system, why does your small mind reduce a logical reaction to their motivation to.... fear?

A rational man kills the lion that threatens his children - not out of "fear" (that implies mere emotionality) but out of good sense and reason.

... However - in the global struggle between Socialists, Islamists and Freemen, I have absolutely no problem choosing sides.

Socialists and Islamists are the enemies of every freedom-loving human being. So, despite our nation's flaws (many of them a result of Socialists gaining power), I can side WITH our nation and work to improve it. ... I don't hate the lion. I just do what it takes to ensure it cannot threaten those I love. That is purely rational, not emotional.

In turn, (I'm such a sucker for vexatious disputation!)

That's the National Socialists Workers Party. The Nazi's. And anyone who doesn't understand the difference between Nazi Fascism and Marxist/Leninist Soviet "Socialism" aka Communism, has not been paying attention to significant historical issues.

I think you have, in your own biased way, and you're intentionally conflating the two to fallaciously forward your apocalyptic hysterical argument about the "evil authoritarians threatening us all!!!!"

There hasn't been a communist threat to America (U.S.) in the world for decades. I could even make an argument that not since WWII. And before you start spluttering about nuclear weapons, I'll grant you that the Soviet Union was a threat to the U.S. militarily.

But a threat to U.S. influence and geo-strategic dominance? Ever since Kruschev revealed the truths, horrors and crimes of Stalinism (not that close observers didn't already know since at least 1926) they'd pretty much lost the argument. The rest was bloody, stupid maneuvering, using proxies in the third world to play murderous games. Games which "we" won at pretty much every turn.

Oh, except Vietnam, but who defeated the U.S. in Vietnam? The commies? The Vietnamese people? The American (U.S.) people? International opinion? How about the latter three?

Oh wait, we didn't try hard enough and the politicians made the generals fight with both hands tied behind their backs. Blah, blah, bullshit....

If you think your opinions have nothing to do with your emotions, and every thing you claim is based solely on reason and intellectual inquiry, without your unconscious desires influencing your decisions, let alone your conscious desires and associations and affinities with other people, then you're ignorant of basic ideas of psychology, social theory and political philosophy.

But I doubt you really believe it. It's just the story you tell yourself and others to assert your ground for your claim that what you think is based on "objective" reality. You assert that none of your ideas are related to internal and social emotional processes which influence what you see, how you understand it, and what you value as important, and what you dismiss as unimportant. How cute!

So, the basic struggle playing out in current history is between the Islamo-Fascists (which you call Islamists, betraying your Racism, and let's not forget that Islamo-Fascist is a conservative alarmist term, which is subject to debate, I use it because it has descriptive value, in spite of its troubled origin and use), Socialists (which is a nonsense term here, since your use elides the difference between all of the various and competing, often completely contradictory forms of thought on the Left, not to mention the murders of anti-authoritarian socialists by authoritarian socialists, across Europe, Asia and other parts of the world) and Free Thinkers (I'll not even touch that ridiculous overgeneralization and the weighted connotation [free] of your use of this phrase. Besides, this isn't an argument in 16th Century England between rationalist enlightenment scholars and medieval clerics.)

Pretty limited world view. Things are much more interesting and complicated. Try reading something other than your partisan right websites some time.

Finally, I think you think of yourself as the "Lion" here. At play in a field of naive hippy new age Leftist "willing dupes" that you enjoy baiting and provoking. It's how you're getting your jollies.

You can't be called a classic Troll, since I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your personal information on your profile page is factually true.

On the other hand, I have no way of knowing that. You're sophisticated enough with computers to have made it all up. In reality, I don't really care one way or the other. That's not what is important here.

Your active self-appointed role, as the gadfly of the right, taking on all comers, and making provocative claims that fly in the face of known facts and generally agreed matters (agreed on across the political spectrum, except the extremes), is pretty much what a conservative troll would do.

Especially on a "Progressive" website.

Still, you're good at it. You don't blatantly slander or insult your opponents, you just keep on coming with the absurd, twisted bullshit, backed up with partisan weblinks, and then when contradicted act innocent and profess your sincerity as a "Free Thinker".

I think of you, not as an actual, but rather a de facto, Troll. You're not interested in discussion. You're interested in declaiming, blaming and denouncing.

And to the extent that my responses to you, and your glee club, have made me a de facto Troll, I apologize to my other fellow wacoons.

I've hammered S2T hard, repeatedly, over the past two Fridays. He pissed me off. Showing up after a long absence, dredging up every single thread from the past few months where he can try and score political brownie points, at least in his own mind. That made me angry.

I suppose I made an unconscious decision to out-troll him at every turn. It's not as entertaining or interesting to me as it was a week ago. I'm done.

I resign from my self-appointed role as the resident Leftist Anti-Troll, Troll. Let someone else do it.

Or even better.

Don't feed us!!!

Speak2Truth

07-23-2010, 11:26 PM

And anyone who doesn't understand the difference between Nazi Fascism and Marxist/Leninist Soviet "Socialism" aka Communism, has not been paying attention to significant historical issues.

Adolf Hitler explained the difference between his Socialism and that of the Leninists, who were close associates of the NAZIs in the early years (that's where the red on the NAZI flag came from). Hitler explained that his Socialist group would focus on Race as a uniting and dividing factor to create the dialectics (conflict) that Socialists create to justify "fundamental transformation" of society.

That is the M.O. of the American Socialists follow today, more than the Leninist model.

There hasn't been a communist threat to America (U.S.) in the world for decades.You display complete ignorance of what the Communist threat actually is. It is very simple.

THEY TAKE YOUR STUFF.

And they use whatever schemes or compulsions are necessary to turn you into good little workers to produce for them so they can take your stuff.

Al Gore is living the Communist apparatchik dream, becoming fat and wealthy by taking your stuff.

Stunning Pictures of Al Gore's New $9 Million Mansion in Montecito Media Totally Ignored
Stunning Pictures of Al Gore's New $9 Million Mansion Media Totally Ignored | NewsBusters.org (https://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/05/03/stunning-pictures-al-gores-new-9-million-mansion-media-totally-ignore#ixzz0n5KO1Pbc)

Former Vice President Al Gore is co-founder and Chairman of Generation Investment Management
Team | Generation Investment Management LLP (https://www.generationim.com/about/team.html)

Al Gore joins Kleiner Perkins as a partner — to push green investments
Gore's investment portfolio value multiplying as government forces tax funds into 'green' jobs and companies
( Gore joins Silicon Valley's Kleiner Perkins to push green business (https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/11/13/MNUCTB215.DTL) )
( Al Gore joins Kleiner Perkins as a partner — to push green investments | VentureBeat (https://venturebeat.com/2007/11/12/al-gore-joins-kleiner-perkins-as-a-partner-to-push-green-investments/) )

This is the Socialist/Fascist system in which they pillage the wealth of a society, play favorites with various corporations that support them while bleeding dry those that do not....

I'll grant you that the Soviet Union was a threat to the U.S. militarily.

Then they outwitted you. Their real threat was not military force - we could beat them at that game. The true threat was their taking positions of power in our nation and redirecting our government to act in their interests rather than our own.

In conflict, the winner imposes its will on the loser. We now have Communists in our own government instituting the "change" that they wished to impose all those decades but could not achieve by military force. It is exactly what they told us they would do:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party USA

They are now bankrupting our nation, seizing the assets and redistributing our wealth to their crooked buddies (including George Soros), to other nations, to ensure that America suffers an economic catastrophe. They are disrupting our economic system to the point that it is no longer sustainable, following the same path of guaranteed collapse as Greece, France and other nations.

If you think your opinions have nothing to do with your emotions, and every thing you claim is based solely on reason and intellectual inquiry, without your unconscious desires influencing your decisions, let alone your conscious desires and associations and affinities with other people, then you're ignorant of basic ideas of psychology, social theory and political philosophy.

If you think you are some kind of mind reader, I suggest you put down the Magic 8 Ball. You've been consistently wrong about me all along. I know - I'm me.

So, the basic struggle playing out in current history is between the Islamo-Fascists (which you call Islamists, betraying your Racism

If you think Islam is race, you're an idiot. Can't help you there. And I used the term Islamists, you brought up the other one. Now you're arguing against yourself again.

Socialists (which is a nonsense term here, since your use elides the difference between all of the various and competing, often completely contradictory forms of thought on the Left, not to mention the murders of anti-authoritarian socialists by authoritarian socialists

Are Sunnis and Shia both Muslim? Indisputably. Yet they also are at each other's throats. Yet they also collaborate against common enemies. Hm...

Various Socialist groups do the same thing. That does not negate the fact that they share a common ideology and common agenda.

Your argument fails the test of logic and fact.

Finally, I think you think of yourself as the "Lion" here. At play in a field of naive hippy new age Leftist "willing dupes" that you enjoy baiting and provoking. It's how you're getting your jollies.

Miles, that is all made up in your own head. It only reveals your internal mental processes, not mine. I can't help you with that.

I'll continue to provide information for the free thinkers on these forums. I enjoy discussing these issues with people who demonstrate genuine intellectual curiosity. I'm happy to learn from them also, when they present information and substantiating facts to support their ideas.

pnicholson

07-24-2010, 12:33 AM

.

What did you have in mind?

i am not sure if you mean 'have in mind' to impeach or to not impeach. reasons to not impeach were not real, i meant. i had no reason for not impeaching. reasons to impeach - resolutions of impeachment appeared online every day for quite some time. it would take long to recount them here.

And, yes, now we do know what happens due to that failure. The invasion continues and the current Administration seeks to take it to the next step - to give it legitimate voting power in the US. This is a Clear and Present Danger.[/QUOTE]

and in the possibly small amount of time we have in which to act decisively, we cannot afford to not impeach, to not prosecute, to not recall. if we make the exact same mistake again, then i think we should just do ourselves in!

I admire you for taking notice and thinking about these things. My concern is that so many of those alleged issues are themselves deceptions and manipulations staged to "de-moralize" the American People and break down our will to stand united against certain ideologies that are indisputably our enemies.

thank you. i cannot do otherwise. and no doubt some of these issues are deceptions. some maybe partial deceptions. some put out to test the waters and could become real issues. so even the ones that are not could soon be ones that are. sounds like crazy talk, doesn't it? but things have been turned upside down and backward. maybe i should shut down my computer for a few days!

By "enemy", I mean that they make no secret of their intention to take away what we value most, our Natural Rights and our liberty from tyrannical (unbound by law) Government. Look how far they've taken us that direction.

yes. they are boldly and arrogantly open about it. and yes, they are the enemy of the people and the constitution. and i do not mean just the democrats. never just one party or the other.

We are in total agreement on that. It is my key motivation to explore these issues, to seek as much information as I can, to understand the details rather than be led by "isms".

we are, yes. and i owe no allegiance to a political party. bush et al should have been impeached for treason and war crimes and obama et al should be impeached for treason and war crimes. one should always watch out for the isms - especially fanaticism.

Have you read the newly popular book, "The 5000 Year Leap"? I consider it a good starting point to understand the founding principles of America, principles that in my own experience and observation truly are a 5000 year leap in human progress. I just finished the book yesterday and am now doing more research based on the information therein.

i have not. but thank you for the recommendation. i will check it out tomorrow.

What do you call the other extreme?

i would call the extreme right fascist christians and the extreme left communist atheists.

i have had nowhere near the 'public' exposure you have described. you must have met a lot of very interesting people over the years.

Democrats don't just tend toward socialism - their party is now controlled by Communists whose determination is to sink this nation into unrecoverable debt and to drain its assets and hand them out to other nations. Enemy activity. And Progressive Communists always hide this activity behind "feel-good" stuff like education, helping the poor, medical programs, whatever. That is pure camouflage. They did that to gain power in Afghanistan too. Their true goal is to build coalitions of power to seize your assets and redistribute those assets to their buddies.

i do understand the goal of the new international order. since the seventies. my understanding is that it is not partisan. obama is bush is clinton is rove is pelosi is cheny is.....

Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered
"Tragedy" of Civil Rights movement was that it focused on court and laws, could not use Supreme Court for redistributive change
YouTube - Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck)

thanks for the link. i might check it out but i almost cannot bear to listen to obama and his empty rhetoric. to me he is not a good hypnotist, as pilger and others call him , or a good speaker. he repeats and he reads teleprompters. he himself is empty. i could not stand to listen to bush either. at least he was funny. nothing about obama is funny.

Republicans tend toward the other "extreme", as you say, which is the founding principles of our nation - prosperity and liberty under a government that defends our Natural Rights and that follows proven business practices leading to national prosperity. That's a HORRIBLY GENERAL brush to paint on all Republicans but it is the Party trend. Some notable Republicans are in the opposite camp, for sure.

again, here, it would be prudent to agree to disagree. i do not see one party as good and the other bad. i think both parties have outlived their usefulness and productivity. time for something new.

I am here to peer behind the curtain and see who is doing what. That's why I take the time to go see for myself. When I come to these forums to speak on these issues, I am not merely echoing second-hand information. My assertions are founded in direct observation.

i do not doubt, speak2truth, that you are sincere in your words and your intentions. i thank you for that , for your calmness, for your desire to learn and to share with us what you have discovered, and somehow, though all of our communication is in writing, for being a good listener!

it has been a pleasure speaking with you.

good night to everyone. or good morning, rather. no wonder i am so tired...

theindependenteye

07-24-2010, 05:46 PM

>>>Socialists and Islamists are the enemies of every freedom-loving human being.

I guess I'm a socialist, at least by this guy's definition, if I can figure out what that is. So I wonder why I don't feel like I'm making much progress against freedom in the USA, since the majority of the Left, the entirety of the Right, and the Tea-Bag Libertarians are all united against the current administration, a.k.a Racist/Fascist/Marxist Conspiracy. I guess it's because God is against me. Well, fuck God.

Don't worry. We'll have a Republican Congress in 2010, a Far-Right President in 2012, and then the Left can be happy feeling impotently righteous, the elite can go on raping the country, and we'll be back to the nightmare of the status quo.

Sweet dreams--
Conrad

Thad

07-24-2010, 08:37 PM

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief.
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth,
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

podfish

07-25-2010, 05:10 PM

you hold yourself in Great Reverence, it's quite clear. A little sense of humor if not humility will make it easier to see more colors in the world, and become a little less obsessed with the dark forces that are trying to get us all.
by the way, if you wonder why your 'facts' don't get much respect, think about your "Socialists and Islamists.." quote. That's Thinking In Slogans, Generalizations And Charicature; that statement isn't an Obvious Fact as you seem to think and does absolutely nothing to contribute to a believable argument.

.... I am approaching these subjects motivated by Truth and Intellectual Curiosity......

Socialists and Islamists are the enemies of every freedom-loving human being.

Speak2Truth

07-26-2010, 05:58 PM

Apologies for mixing replies to different people in one post. Here we go...

again, here, it would be prudent to agree to disagree. i do not see one party as good and the other bad. i think both parties have outlived their usefulness and productivity. time for something new.That's why the TEA Party exists! There are still Americans who hold to American principles that have been betrayed by both major parties!

However, only at Democrat meetings have I been the recipient of Communist literature, descriptions of plans to eliminate the US military dominance, to wreck the US economy, to give America's enemies a leg up. I've never experienced this at a Republican meeting and I've attended plenty of both. "Evil" is the wrong word - "Enemy" is the correct one.

Based on all that I have seen, the Democrat Party is openly an "enemy" of America and the Republican Party is openly a "defender" of America, with the caveat that many top Republicans are not. John McCain, for example, betrays American principles and therefore had a very bad showing last election - only getting a bump in the polls by selecting a patriotic VP.

by the way, if you wonder why your 'facts' don't get much respect, think about your "Socialists and Islamists.." quote. That's Thinking In Slogans, Generalizations And Charicature; that statement isn't an Obvious Fact as you seem to think and does absolutely nothing to contribute to a believable argument.I appreciate your saying so, Podfish. I think the problem we have here is that I have spent a lot of time among these people, getting to know them, seeing what their agendas are and I too often make the mistake of thinking others share that experience.

To others, those words seem to be mere slogans. I however use those words to describe a comprehensive understanding of their underlying meaning.

I hold myself in no reverence. I hold knowledge in great reverence for the Truth shall set us free of deceptive manipulations. I am here to compare notes with others to get as close to Truth as I might.

Regarding Fascism...

Christians are not fascists - that's why the Christians who created this nation created a system of freedom, of protection of your Rights, of equality for people of all faiths, of economic liberty (most unlike Fascists)...

Fascists have almost invariably been Socialists, including the Socialist Dictator Benito Mussolini who penned the Doctrine of Fascism. Adolf Hitler, another notorious Fascist, was also a top Socialist leader.

This might help with terminology...

The American Form of Government - Comparison of types of government
The American Form of Government (https://www.flixxy.com/political-systems.htm)