Well...... it's been about a week or so since I initiated this thread, hopeing to get some dialogue started around the issues of what thoughts are on folks minds when either welcoming new folks to a new place, or at the other end of the spectrum, privately, and subliminally classifying them as ''other'', and fortifying their mental outlook accordingly. I started the thread with the idea that I would most likely just stand back and watch a fairly predictable''feeding frenzy'' occur, as opposed to folks really opening up their hearts and minds. So far i've heard some quite interesting ideas, but mostly I've recieved responses that want to correct my grammer, structure, and overall attitude about my perhaps unstated, but underlying expectation to arrive and truly be welcomed by a like minded group of artisan -craftfolk.I have also been informed that my typing skills are not up to snuff. this is, of course not news to your humble thread starter. What I do find rather sad is that almost every posting I've seen seems to devolve into a ''pseudo pissing contest'' reguarding the shortcomings of people from either one coast or the other, and proceeds as a diatribe whose underlieing spirit seems to be''I've got mine.....F.U ''so sorry if that seems blunt, but for better AND worse, I seem to look at many things in a ''third level subtext '' context, which is both blessing and curse. It seems to me that in many instances the folks that post reguarly here are more less ''work at home computer types'' that would label themselves as ''progressive'', a label which I believe is becoming as tired as ''democratic'', or ''green'', or a small handfull of other descriptions , some of which I still, perhaps for a lack of a better phrase employ in my speech. But at any rate.... enough glum bitching..... My true inclination is to try and find a little lesson in each of these postings and express gratitude for those who have taken the time to share their thoughts, reguardless of my private feelings. that said.....THANK YOU ALL..... I hope that this thread will continue to mature and evolve , and that we all can find something of interest and use in it . That said, I will move along into a shameless'' infomercial'' and humbly invite all those interested to visit my housing notice, ''out of the box housing'' and to click on the flickr slideshow link...... YES..... i do know it is a bit long and as of yet unedited, but hey it's a work in progress. M y idea of community is the creation of beauty in the smallest details of our everyday lives,and to make that available to those close to me, as well as new friends, and the garden and home I've been blessed with stewarding for the last nine years reflects my effort to put this into practice. It's all practice after all....If anyone finds any beauty and validity in this, and would have a situation that a new version of this garden and view of the world might find fertile ground in, I would be anxious to know what you're up to, even if it is to say that my rhetoric of object placement doesn't seem proper according to their sensibilities..... Forgive my bluntness.....Honor my bluntness, bitch about it if you must, I surely found that I had to in reguard to some of the feedback, but mostly.....THANK YOU....the maker of stonebeads.....
rgazzola
07-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Well said Stonebeadmaker, many valid points, thank-you.
Rosalie
"Mad" Miles
07-20-2010, 10:11 PM
stonebeadmaker,
I first read your most recent post when I was rushing out the door this afternoon. I've just reread it.
When I was in a hurry, I had a negative reaction to the first half. I found the second half very reasonable.
I'll try not to belabor any points already made in "this" thread. Which is a new thread here, since you didn't post your response in the first thread. I'll let Barry fix that, or not, since I don't know how (or can't, depending) and am not responsible for moderating "General Community".
After rereading, my response is less negative. But I have a couple of questions. I also have some observations that I doubt you'll find pleasing. And I hope you find the beautiful living space and artisan community that you seek.
... What I do find rather sad is that almost every posting I've seen seems to devolve into a ''pseudo pissing contest'' reguarding the shortcomings of people from either one coast or the other, and proceeds as a diatribe whose underlieing spirit seems to be''I've got mine.....F.U ''so sorry if that seems blunt,
Discussions on wacco almost always meander and take tangents. It's a free board. The "Thread Starter" doesn't control the content, nobody really does.
So complaining that responses to your post didn't answer your questions, or provide you the information requested ... is pretty much a waste of your time. You can't control it, nobody else will.
The only way to make that happen would be to have an anally moderated board where only responses tightly relevant to the original post are allowed. That's not going to happen.
Part of the charm, and aggravation, of waccobb is that it's a free board (within limits of civility as laid out when one subscribes) and things will go wherever they go, and people will say whatever they deem fit to say.
Complaining about it is like complaining about the weather. May be fun to vent. But it isn't going to change the climactic conditions that displease you.
... but for better AND worse, I seem to look at many things in a ''third level subtext '' context, which is both blessing and curse.
As a onetime student of Semiology, Post-Structuralism and Deconstructionism, I have no idea what "third level subtext" context means. But it comes off to me as a claim of excruciating sensitivity and extraordinary perceptual accuity. In other words, kinda arrogant. And also an impossible claim. What are the first and second levels of subtext?
It seems to me that in many instances the folks that post reguarly here are more less ''work at home computer types''
Stereotyping your readers, especially the few who took the time and trouble to respond to you. Not a real good way to win friends and influence people.
... that would label themselves as ''progressive'', a label which I believe is becoming as tired as ''democratic'', or ''green'', or a small handfull of other descriptions , some of which I still, perhaps for a lack of a better phrase employ in my speech...
More stereotyping (fairly accurate perhaps, there are plenty of people here who describe themselves in these terms, yours truly for one, but I have no way of knowing if that applies to everyone reading this, and neither do you. And it's still pigeonholing others) and then a putdown "becoming as tired as".
I'm most interested in what you would propose as "a better phrase" to replace, Progressive, Democratic and Green. And what pray tell is wrong with these attributions?
How have they become trite, played out, inappropriate? Which seems to me, as a reader of subtext, you seem to be implying? If too many people use them so they have lost their special meaning, which is the most generous interpretation I can find for what you might be saying. What would you replace them with? Seriously, I'd really like to know.
(I have my own critique of Progressive, but I'll not take time here to go into it. Veteran readers have already heard me on that topic.)
... But at any rate.... enough glum bitching.....
Kudos for showing some self awareness! If your readers have followed you this far, you might take some of the sting out of your previous remarks with this.
... My true inclination is to try and find a little lesson in each of these postings and express gratitude for those who have taken the time to share their thoughts, reguardless of my private feelings. that said.....THANK YOU ALL.....Honor my bluntness, bitch about it if you must, I surely found that I had to in reguard to some of the feedback, but mostly.....THANK YOU....the maker of stonebeads.....
As I said the second part of your post is unobjectionable and actually quite sweet. (I didn't quote it in its entirety, as it is in this thread as the beginning post.)
I won't say anything, in detail, about your typing or lack of paragraph breaks (except I just mentioned them didn't I? Well it's hard to refer subjects you find irritating, but I consider valuable, without actually referring to them...) since you've shown that you have a third level subtext /context awareness that, for some reason, makes you resistant to suggestions on how to make your prose attractive and accessable to the average reader.
But that's the contradiction that leaps out at me. You call yourself a "maker of beauty", yet you bristle at advice that would allow you to improve your skills at doing exactly that.
Makes no sense to me. And leads me to "stereotype" you as a sensitive artist who is resistant to efforts by others to help you.
I don't know you, we've never met. I write what I've written here solely based on your posts. I hope I'm wrong.
Cause if I'm right you're going to have difficulty finding a community of welcoming artisans who are willing to accomodate your excruciating sensitivity and elevated perceptual abilities. Especially when you focus them on the other members of the community you are seeking!
Seriously, good luck.
As Sartre wrote at the end of "No Exit", "Hell is other people."
Believe it or not, I've been where you seem to be. I feel your pain. Cause in many ways, I still have it myself!
Zeno Swijtink
07-20-2010, 10:37 PM
pearlsamongstswine, aka stonebeadmaker,
Could you please post the flickr slideshow link again. I was not able to find it.
typewriter
07-20-2010, 11:08 PM
stonebeadmaker:
I find it incredibly hard to understand what it is that you want here and, in reality, suspect that you yourself do not know what your goal is.
...Or perhaps your goal is exactly what you have received, which is a variety of responses that, despite what you say you want (dialogue, feedback, community) somehow do not meet your needs even though they address the questions that you have asked. Maybe you just want a place to vent?
In any case, I rarely participant in discussions on this board but found this one interesting. Mostly because I felt I could relate a little to your situation...but you took the opportunity to see this as a pissing contest and not someone responding with sincerity to your post. Hmm? Why is this? I think the answer to why you are not getting what you need may be a result of your approach, and not the community which you are seeking to affiliate yourself with (but seem to harbor a great deal of hostility toward).
I wish you all the success with your search.
Bryan
07-21-2010, 04:24 PM
In reading all of the various posts from both threads, I will observe that any writing is difficult.
It is difficult to convey purpose, tone, and other emotive signals at the appropriate level of intensity.
Usually, there is, in fact, stronger received emotions than intended. Words can be read many different ways and the receiver's mood has a lot to do with what is 'heard' from the words.
Its not easier than meeting people face to face although it may seem easier.
As someone who does meet dozens of people every week, its nice to write. Quieter anyway.
But being careful, thinking about the audience, keeping clear your intention - these are all
basic elements of 'rhetoric'. There's a science behind writing. That science was invented by Plato and his ilk over 2,000 years ago.
But maybe what's important today is a newer social concept called 'slack'.
The Church of Bob is an important proponent of 'slack'. I tend though to define 'slack' as in 'give me some slack', an implied request to read things from their best intentions until proven otherwise.
I also believe that one earns 'slack' through their own treatment of others,
and then spends it during their life. Giving each other 'slack' would go a long way towards getting along. Women, I believe, are much better at 'slack' than men. (That sexist statement may have used up any and ALL the slack I may have earned in the earlier part of this reply)
I think Barry and HIS ilk have done a lot of slack sharing in Waccobb and I hope to see that continue.