Phrauds and Phonies

[Sciguy]

I take note from a Wacco ad that a so-called psychic named Sylvia Browne is coming to town in July. I only heard of her once before, in a talk that is available to everyone on TED. James Randi, a skeptic, magician and debunker of psychic folderol devotes a good deal of his talk on TED to discussing Sylvia Browne. If you want to hear what he has to say, you can go to: James Randi's fiery takedown of psychic fraud | Video on TED.com (https://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/james_randi.html) and get an earful. And he's quite amusing too.

Scienceguy

[JuliaB]

It is good that there are those that point out charlatans, where and when they exist. However, I think its also important to point out that there is legitimate research that has been, and is being done on human extrasensory abilities.

And by the way, I have been just reading a wonderful book written by 'the amazing Kreskin" detailing how he does his mind reading tricks. Fascinating. But he also says there are some things that happen in his shows that he can't explain by the use of his skill and magical trickery.
Julia


I take note from a Wacco ad that a so-called psychic named Sylvia Browne is coming to town in July. I only heard of her once before, in a talk that is available to everyone on TED. James Randi, a skeptic, magician and debunker of psychic folderol devotes a good deal of his talk on TED to discussing Sylvia Browne. If you want to hear what he has to say, you can go to: James Randi's fiery takedown of psychic fraud | Video on TED.com (https://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/james_randi.html) and get an earful. And he's quite amusing too.

Scienceguy

[seanpfister]

Randi may be skilled at exposing charlatans and tricksters--he's in the magic/entertainment business--but he has no actual scientific credentials.
I'm sure his expertise about the craft of magic and sleight-of-hand is impeccable, but his scientific judgements are as worhtwhile as, say, mine.

His motivation seems quite good, but I think his brush may tar a bit too widely.


I take note from a Wacco ad that a so-called psychic named Sylvia Browne is coming to town in July. I only heard of her once before, in a talk that is available to everyone on TED. James Randi, a skeptic, magician and debunker of psychic folderol devotes a good deal of his talk on TED to discussing Sylvia Browne. If you want to hear what he has to say, you can go to: James Randi's fiery takedown of psychic fraud | Video on TED.com (https://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/james_randi.html) and get an earful. And he's quite amusing too.

Scienceguy

[Sciguy]

Good try, but no cigar!

Randi's astronaut qualifications are no better than yours either. So what?

He isn't pretending or claiming to be "a scientist". He is a self proclaimed trickster, wizard, magician and, yes, fraud. But he uses his trickery to hurt no one. He commits fraud to entertain and educate. He dislikes people who commit fraud to steal money from gullible and not very smart people who do not have his ability to recognize fraud when they see it.

In all the areas that he claims to know, his credentials are impeccable. In evaluating "paranormal" claims I would trust him over you any day. Our credentials are nowhere near his. What I have learned over the years from the professional skeptics is that scientists are among the most gullible of investigators and the phonies know it. No, it is as a magician that he deserves credit. That's how come he can expose another magician pulling a fast one.

Did you even pay attention to the many points he made exposing Sylvia Browne as a fraud and as someone who preys on people to destroy them financially without giving a damn? I never heard her name before but Randi convinces me absolutely.

Sciguy



Randi may be skilled at exposing charlatans and tricksters--he's in the magic/entertainment business--but he has no actual scientific credentials.
I'm sure his expertise about the craft of magic and sleight-of-hand is impeccable, but his scientific judgements are as worhtwhile as, say, mine.

His motivation seems quite good, but I think his brush may tar a bit too widely.

[seanpfister]

Randi's astronaut qualifications are no better than yours either. So what? He isn't pretending or claiming to be "a scientist".


James Randi gives an award every year to what he considers the "silliest" scientist based on the research he/she conducted. Randi is, in effect, conducting peer review. It's one things for him to say "there's a sleight-of-hand method to produce that effect". It's quite another for him to opine about sample size, experimental design, the application of quantum theory and the like. But he has in fact pronounced on these matters. That's what I meant by the brush being used a bit widely.



What I have learned over the years from the professional skeptics is that scientists are among the most gullible of investigators and the phonies know it.


Everyone makes mistakes, or can have an emotionally biased belief--including scientists and doctors. And this same human condition applies equally well to skeptics, even if they are "professional" ones.

[JuliaB]

Well said! Thanks for the reminder to us all. We must allow for human fallabilty on all "sides". It's dangerous whenever we hold one way of looking at something as the final "authority". This is the trouble religions get into and those outside of religion are susceptible to as well.

Sylvia Browne may well be a fraud, but I don't know. I am sure there are many of her ilk who are. The danger is when we decide ahead of time based on our own bias.

Julia


quote from seanpfister (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/members/seanpfister.html)
"Everyone makes mistakes, or can have an emotionally biased belief--including scientists and doctors. And this same human condition applies equally well to skeptics, even if they are "professional" ones."

[hales]

Many years ago, in the late 70s, maybe, I went to see the famous psychic, (now deceased), Betty Bethards.. I had no expectations as far as her legitimacy or lack thereof.. she did a talk and then did a segment where she gave mini-readings for audience members.. (I think they had to do with how past-lives affected current situations), and when she did a reading for a person behind me, I felt a powerful energy and "saw" a bright white light, like being under a spot light.. it was really shocking, not just an ephemeral impression on my part.. I mentioned it later to the lady I had gone, with who had been sitting next to me, and she said she had a similar experience but was afraid to mention it; This was not scientific proof of anything, I know, but for me, it definitely "proved" she was working with some kind of strong, neutral energy.. as I said, it felt mainly like an electric current or light going through me, and I was just in the way of that energy.. ; )

I've had lots of personal experiences with precognitive dreams and with my own intuition or that of others, but I am still quite skeptical of professional psychics, until they prove to me that they have the "real stuff".. : )

I think it's good to keep an open mind, but to also use discrimination (the good kind), common sense and logic, and to question assumptions, assertions and "special information".. if people want to hear something, then someone will be happy to take their money and tell it to them, IMO.. ; )

Scott.



Well said! Thanks for the reminder to us all. We must allow for human fallabilty on all "sides". It's dangerous whenever we hold one way of looking at something as the final "authority". This is the trouble religions get into and those outside of religion are susceptible to as well.

Sylvia Browne may well be a fraud, but I don't know. I am sure there are many of her ilk who are. The danger is when we decide ahead of time based on our own bias.

Julia


quote from seanpfister (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/members/seanpfister.html)
"Everyone makes mistakes, or can have an emotionally biased belief--including scientists and doctors. And this same human condition applies equally well to skeptics, even if they are "professional" ones."

[Speak2Truth]

Derren Brown is one of the most amazing "frauds" I have seen on TV. His videos are on YouTube and are worthy of a watch, especially his segments testing "religious faith".