National Day of Prayer Canceled? [Archive]

Kaya

05-15-2010, 02:51 PM

This is chilling ...?? In 1952 President Truman established one day a year as a"NationalDay of Prayer."

In 1988 President Reagan

designated the First Thursday in May of each year as
the National Dayof Prayer.

In June 2007 (then) Presidential Candidate Barack Obama declared that the USA Was no longer a Christian nation. In 2009 President Obama, canceled the
21st annual National Day of Prayer ceremony
at the White House under the rouse of "not wanting to offend anyone" On September 25,2009 from 4 am until 7 pm, a National Day of Prayer for the Muslim religion was Held on Capitol Hill, Beside the White House.
It was reported that there were over 50,000 Muslims in DC that Day .
I guess it doesn't matter
if "Christians" are offended by this event - We obviously don't count

as "anyone" anymore.The direction this country is headed
should strike fear in the heart of every Christian. Especially knowing that the
Muslim religion believes that

if Christians cannot be converted
they should be annihilated. This is not a Rumor –

Go to the following website to confirm this info: ( https://www.islamoncapitolhill.com/ (https://www.islamoncapitolhill.com/) ) Quotes from this Muslim web site: "Islam on Capital Hill" "OUR TIME HAS COME"

Karen the KAT

05-16-2010, 01:35 PM

Barry,

I see you deleted a post re: the National day of prayer and the 50,000+ Muslims that got together at the Capitol

Heres what Urban Legends has to say (In 2009) Since the article was written Obama has gone on to claim that we are not a Christian Nation anymore.

He has also refused twice now to preside over the National day of Prayer (which is non-denominational and open to peoples of any faith).

Here ya' go:

Analysis: The above messages contain a mixture of truth and fiction. Let's take the main points one-by-one:

TRUE: A Muslim Day of Prayer took place in Washington, D.C.
An event called "Islam on Capitol Hill," billed as a "day of Islamic unity" and featuring Muslim prayers and readings from the Qur'an, took place in Washington, D.C. on September 25, 2009. It was conceived and sponsored by a local mosque.

One of the organizers of the event, Hassan Abdellah, described it as follows in a statement to the Newark Star-Ledger: "This is not a protest. Never has the Islamic community prayed on Capitol Hill for the soul of America. We're Americans. We need to change the face of Islam so people don't feel every Muslim believes America is 'the great Satan,' because we love America."
Sources:
• Islam on Capitol Hill. Official Website.
• Elizabeth Mosque Organizes National Prayer Gathering for Muslims in Washington, D.C. Newark Star-Ledger, 31 August 2009.
• Muslims to Pray for 'Soul of America' at U.S. Capitol Event. Washington Post, 5 September 2009.

FALSE: President Obama 'canceled' or 'dismissed' the annual National Day of Prayer.
As one email puts it, "This country (founded as a Christian nation) can't have our national day of prayer, but the Muslims can have theirs and on Capitol Hill?" The question is disingenuously posed.

America did, in fact, celebrate its traditional interfaith National Day of Prayer on the first Thursday of May 2009. Obama followed the precedent set by Ronald Reagan during the 1980s by signing a proclamation calling upon Americans of all faiths "to pray in thanksgiving for our freedoms and blessings and to ask for God's continued guidance, grace, and protection for this land that we love."

Where Obama broke with recent tradition was in not presiding over a public ceremony on the occasion.
Sources:
• Text of Obama's National Day of Prayer Proclamation, Beliefnet.com, 7 May 2009
• Obama Tones Down National Day of Prayer Observance. CNN.com, 6 May 2009.
Ah yes, and then we have the recent actions with Franklin Graham, yes that made millions of independent voters happy didn't it?

TRUE: The event was inspired by public remarks Obama has made about Islam.
Planners of the event said it was inspired in part by Obama's inaugural address and in part by a speech he gave in Cairo on June 4, 2009 in which he called for a "new beginning" for America and Muslims both at home and abroad, based on mutual interests and respect instead of mistrust and conflict.

"For the first time in my lifetime," organizer Hassan Abdellah told the Newark Star-Ledger, "I heard someone of his stature speaking about Islam and Muslims not in an adversarial sense, but in the sense of being welcome and acknowledging we are integral citizens in the society — that we're gainfully employed, we're educated. He said he had his hand open to the Islamic world. The Islamic world wants to open their hand and shake it." Must have been his schooling in Indonesia: "I didn't attend a Muslim school", "I did attend a Muslim school".. LOL!
Sources:
• Elizabeth Mosque Organizes National Prayer Gathering for Muslims in Washington, D.C. Newark Star-Ledger, 31 August 2009.
• President Obama's Inaugural Address, 1-20-09. ABC News.
• Remarks by the President at Cairo University, 6-04-09. WhiteHouse.gov.

FALSE: Obama has declared that the U.S.A. is no longer a Christian nation.
One sentence in Obama's prepared remarks for his keynote address at the "Call to Renewal" conference sponsored by Christian Sojourners in 2006 read as follows:

Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.
Despite the fact that Obama misspoke I love how a person whom is always heralded as a paragon of[ public speaking issues so darn many corrections to his speeches. This coming from a man who can't remember his name without a teleprompter. How can you "Misspeak" when you are reading a prepared speech. Now id for once he was to speak without reading from a teleprompter, maybe this concept of "Misspeaking" would be believable. I'm not a Sarah Palin fan but I loved her comment when she was accused of being a dingbat for writibg a couple of notes on her hand. I don't remember the exact quote but it went something like: "Hey, at least I CAN speak without a teleprompter telling me what to say, point out another politician who actually speaks without a pre-prepared script on a teleprompter, on a regular basis ". /COLOR]when he actually delivered the speech, saying, "Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation — at least, not just," and the fact that his self-correction is often omitted when the statement is quoted, his clear intent was to be inclusive, not to disavow the country's predominantly Christian make-up.[COLOR="red"]Well, except he has gone on as President to re-quote this as it stood, AFTER this "Mistake" was pointed out by innumerable people. Hmmm, with that kind of focus and no changees, one would have to say he meant it after all.

So I gotta ask you, whay did you delete this post, it contains a whole lot more verified (By liberals even) facts than the majority of the fantasy I see here?

Barry

05-16-2010, 01:57 PM

Barry,

I see you deleted a post re: the National day of prayer and the 50,000+ Muslims that got together at the Capitol
...
So I gotta ask you, why did you delete this post, it contains a whole lot more verified (By liberals even) facts than the majority of the fantasy I see here?

I removed that post (which I have restored to this thread) for several reasons:

1) It was badly mis-formatted. I have corrected the formatting to something more consistent.
2) It was off-topic on the Palestinian and Jews thread.
3) It was a bunch of mis-information designed to provoke anger and fear. It is very far from what I would consider conscious or progressive. Whatever grains of truth it contained were contorted to serve the very heavy handed POV. While I don't hold that all things posted here be from a progressive point of view, I do insist that it be thoughtful and considerate rather than fear-mongering lies.

Karen the KAT

05-17-2010, 03:37 AM

I removed that post (which I have restored to this thread) for several reasons:

1) It was badly mis-formatted. I have corrected the formatting to something more consistent.
I totally agree
2) It was off-topic on the Palestinian and Jews thread.
Not really, it comes down to Islam vs. everyone else
3) It was a bunch of mis-information designed to provoke anger and fear. It is very far from what I would consider conscious or progressive. Virtually everything I read everywhere can be considered this if you are on the other side. Some of the most purposely fear and anger provoking articles I have read recently have been right here on Wacco, written by self described "progressives" A very misused term, along with "conscious community". They are both completely subjective, self glorifing labels. As I say again and again, the most closed minds I have ever met are those of the far left and the far right, with the far left having a slight (negative) edge. The far right will also tell you how forward thinking and conscious they are, and they have a bunch of "facts" they will quote to prove their points. However, from my view in the middle, they're both fairly delusional, or downright insane. Surround yourself with like thinking persons and you're always right, no matter how far from reality you may beWhatever grains of truth it contained were contorted to serve the very heavy handed POV. Sort of like the original post in this thread LOL! Well, actually, according to the "Urban Legends" fact checker, it was deemed, "Mostly true". That's about all one can say of most anything, is it notWhile I don't hold that all things posted here be from a progressive point of view, I do insist that it be thoughtful and considerate rather than fear-mongering lies. I would then note that you have been remiss in your editing duties, because I find an awful lot of fear-mongering lies posted here. Again, the original article of this thread is a bunch of "fear-mongering lies" once one puts it to the test of comparison to universally accepted facts and statistics (Wikipedia and Mackey's: "Passion and Politics" being fairly well regarded by both sides of the conflict.

Come on Barry, I like you as a person, because while I believe you to be strongly leftist, and as I note above, I consider this to be a big liability to critical thinking and logic, I also believe that you have the best of intentions at heart, and you really do want to see the World become a better place. However, I think this can be said of virtually anybody. I don't know anybody that doesn't want the World to become a better place, it's their definition of what is a better place that differs.

I also recognized the error(s) in the piece, but really, here in May 2010, the only one that stands out now is the part about Obama "ending the Day of Prayer", because since then he has come out and said quite outright as a stand-alone sentence, that; "America is no longer a Christian Nation", thus making it retroactively correct in this respect. This doesn't excuse the author for being misleading when it was written in 2009, but as I noted, I've seen a lot worse from the left go unchallenged).

Anyway, thanks for answering my question, I just hope that you apply your editorial delete button just as judiciously in the future, when you come across an article suffering from the same issues, when it's written from a leftist stance.

If you think I'm being especially hard on the leftists, I can tell you that there are plenty on the right that believe the same thing about my views of them.

Whatever "Peace, love and happiness", mean to you each of you, may you enjoy them in abundance, Karen

podfish

05-19-2010, 10:09 AM

I'm confused as to your position here. Do you think that Obama's statement "America is no longer a Christian Nation" was a problem?

....I also recognized the error(s) in the piece, but really, here in May 2010, the only one that stands out now is the part about Obama "ending the Day of Prayer", because since then he has come out and said quite outright as a stand-alone sentence, that; "America is no longer a Christian Nation", thus making it retroactively correct in this respect....

Debunker

05-19-2010, 10:16 AM

If you think I'm being especially hard on the leftists, I can tell you that there are plenty on the right that believe the same thing about my views of them.

My dear, you give yourself waaaay too much credit. Your views and tactics are adolescent at best.

Karen the KAT

05-19-2010, 05:01 PM

My dear, you give yourself waaaay too much credit. Your views and tactics are adolescent at best.

You again prove yourself clueless with that statement. I haven't seen such ignorant assumptions in a long, long time.

Read what I write, not what you want it to be.

My comments were simply to point out that Barry was being disingenuous about his supposed "Neutrality", and that he is very much a pre-judged leftist (like yourself).

You Libs are amazing, but in a bad way. Anybody that opposes you must, by your definition, be a racist, a Republican, or uneducated, and yet over and over again, it is you Libs who show yourselves to be the closed minded ones. Facts and logic are like garlic to you it seems.

Why use logic when emotion will do?

It simply boggles the mind... "I'm so smart, educated and forward thinking that anything me and my like minded friends think is real, must be.

What amazing ignorance...

All as I have said over and over, and over, and over.

Oh, and again, change your name: All you do is de-bunk yourself with your assumptions and ignorance.

Karen the KAT

05-19-2010, 05:05 PM

I'm confused as to your position here. Do you think that Obama's statement "America is no longer a Christian Nation" was a problem?

Absolutely, it doesn't represent the majority, and our nation is built upon the most primary precept of majority rule.

There can be no other way of looking at it if you believe in the Constitution.

My personal feelings are not part of the issue as defined by this truth

Karen the KAT

05-19-2010, 05:20 PM

Absolutely, it doesn't represent the majority, and our nation is built upon the most primary precept of majority rule.

There can be no other way of looking at it if you believe in the Constitution.

My personal feelings are not part of the issue as defined by this truth

I will also note that in removing Kaya's post, Barry is completely disregarding the reality of Constitutional government.

BARRY: Our country is ruled by majority vote, the majority are Christian. The country was founded on Christian principals, and Christian rule opposed to Islam as it was formed my Masons.

Now as an aside: Ask your local Masons: Although the now allow as members "anyone who has a higher power" (My paraphrasing), back in the 1700's when they formed the USA, the Masons were a nominally Christian organization who's enemies were Islam, and the Catholic Church. Allowing Islam in the USA was so far from the founding father's mindset that they never bothered to mention it. They naturally assumed that when they said "Freedom of religion", people would understand that they would thus be free to pick their own version of Christianity or not.

Unfortunately this assumption and omission has been exploited, and I as a Constitutionalist must agree with it's wording, as otherwise I'm just picking and choosing and that's not logical, nor correct.

Barry

05-19-2010, 07:43 PM

LenInSebastopol

05-19-2010, 08:47 PM

As I understand it, those old guys wanted a nation that had no state/governmental religion, as that was the case in where they all came from, as well as the whole world. Hot topic in that day and when freedom from such was found they banged it out on official papers.
Much language in those old readings clearly shows their Christian influences & preferences for the peoples of this country, AFAIK, that was all but in stone. Documents show there was Jewish as well as Islamic acknowledgment but they were/are a minority when it came to the public square regarding faith involvement.
Now a days both progressive & conservative claim it was/is to protect the state from the church and visa-versa, depending on your choice of flavor. Both are right. The Mohamedaians are interesting to me since they make no separation between religious and civil life. Very interesting when one thinks about it.

Kaya

05-19-2010, 11:39 PM

Podfish wrote :
I'm confused as to your position here. Do you think that Obama's statement "America is no longer a Christian Nation" was a problem?

YES it's a problem . America is Christian . If she is no longer a Christian Nation then she is NO longer America. If I remember right peoples from all over the world would die to get the chance to live in this beautiful CHRISTIAN NATION ...... the deal was you could come here to this nation and have FREEDOM and FREE WILL to choose what ever you want to believe, BUT I think it is very obvious where America stood on the subject of religion it was ALL Christian , a quick lesson would be to study the money in your pocket . Why do people think that they need to change America ? Do you know that the kids in public school in Santa Rosa did a project on holidays around the world and mentioned several BUT they could not say Christmas on the picture they drew in class it had to say December 25 not to offend . It's just one thing after another..
God Bless "Old America" The Christian Nation.

P.S. I cant stand church or Most teachers of religion and the Catholic church makes me puke BUT I love Christ. I believe 99% of Christian teachers are nearly retarded and give Jesus a bad name ..go figure ... Kaya

Sylph

05-19-2010, 11:53 PM

Prayer should be a private matter between a person and his or her God. This National Day of Prayer has become a hypocritical litmus test to see if a political figure is "Christian enough". I have friends, who dislike Obama (and are not particularly religious) who keep forwarding this false claim that Obama cancelled the Day of Prayer as if they are outraged. Why have a public observance, anyway? Who needs someone telling us when and how to pray, pray tell?

The founding fathers were deists, not Christians, if you go by what they
wrote in private. I keep hearing Fox talking heads saying that they were Christians. Take a look at what they wrote:
Founding Father Quotes on Religion (https://www.barefootsworld.net/founding.html)

Kaya

05-20-2010, 12:14 AM

From: Sylph <SMALL> Supporting member </SMALL>
Category: Censored & Un-Censored
Thread: National Day of Prayer Canceled?

Prayer should be a private matter between a person and his or her God. This National Day of Prayer has become a hypocritical litmus test to see if a political figure is "Christian enough". I have friends, who dislike Obama (and are not particularly religious) who keep forwarding this false claim that Obama cancelled the Day of Prayer as if they are outraged. Why have a public observance, anyway? Who needs someone telling us when and how to pray, pray tell?

The founding fathers were deists, not Christians, if you go by what they
wrote in private. I keep hearing Fox talking heads saying that they were Christians. Take a look at what they wrote:
Founding Father Quotes on Religion (https://www.barefootsworld.net/founding.html)

Why do you or anyone else even try to argue the fact that this is and was founded a Christian Nation. We ( America ) do NOT and have never advertised anything but Christianity , do you see budah or Islam or any other religion on our money ? Why must people fight the facts ? Explain to me please for starters the 13 arrows and the 13 olive branchs printed on the money in your pocket ? We ( Americans ) should not change nor evolve into a New America , there was nothing wrong with her to begin with , that is why you have this platform to bash her ..Freedom my friend , you should go to another land and tell them that there long traditions that have been loved are wacked now thing's have changed ..PLEASE get a grip , it is only here in America where so many get to bite the hand that feeds them ....

Karen the KAT

05-20-2010, 03:00 AM

So I guess by the same token, America is a female nation (https://www.nationalatlas.gov/articles/people/a_gender.html). It's nonsensical. America is a nation that separates church and states and believes in personal religious freedom, which can be said about the country, even though apparently not all of its citizen's share those values.

Now, of course, should the be an actual vote, and it was decided to pass a constitutional amendment, then you would be correct. Until that time, you are completely wrong and seem to have a bad case of teabagitis, for which there is no known cure.

If you ask me who's the "better American" between a tolerant/accepting Muslim and an intolerrant/bigoted Christian, the answer is clear.

Semantics aside, there are as you point out, more Christians than not in the Country at present, this means we are a de-facto Christian Nation. We are also, as you point out, a female nation (Yeah!)

Check some of the bills in your pocket and tell me about separation of church and State again.

Funny, but don't they say: " In God we trust"?, not in Allah, higher power, Buddha, Liberals, Republicans, Clinton, Obama, Jehovah, Atheists, or anything else, just God. Not even the Constitution is given such a place of ultimate trust.

The phrase "Separation of Church and State" isn't even in the Constitution, except as referenced by the 1st Amendment, which says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Hmmm, Pretty simple really... It pretty much says: No laws can be made as regards religions. It doesn't say anything about the fact that we are still a predominately a nation of Christians.

Here's where the phrase came from: Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States)

AS far as your statement about Christians and Muslims, what does this have to do with the subject. There are plenty of tolerant and accepting Christians, and plenty of Muslims who are prejudiced and bigoted. And in fact that would hold to be true of the majority of their practitioners. As far who is the better American, I would vote for the one who more supports the Country and it's laws as set forth in the Constitution, regardless of their tolerance or not, as I would leave that for the subject of: "who is the better person as per the open-ness of their views towards follow members of society.

As far as your ascertation that I have "Teabagitis", you miss the mark as completely as your claim I am wrong that we are indeed a Nation composed predominately of Christians. I'm pointing out the facts, and just because others don't like them, doesn't mean squat, except that they have closed minds.

The closest I come to that statement is that I am a Libertarian, and thus I also share two of their concepts:

We have a Government that is far too big and (thus) far too corrupt.

The concept of less taxes and social programs, and instead, more personal accountability and charity, make for a stronger society.

There's plenty of proof that both of these statements are basic truths (another subject).

Although I may share some of their precepts, these things don't make me a tea partier, I'm simply not that extreme.

As I note, I do however understand their frustration with a government that doesn't listen to the people.

FYI: Democrats now account for over 35% of "Tea Party" types.

Go figure...

Sounds like you were looking for a fight.

I once had an Airedale. She looked like any other dog, but when provoked, it was rapidly discovered that she was actually a furry alligator.

They say that dogs take after their masters...

Sylph

05-20-2010, 11:59 AM

Check some of the bills in your pocket and tell me about separation of church and State again.

History tells us that "In God we Trust" was put on our money during the Civil War. Should we go by what our money says or by the Constitution?
There is some pretty angry rhetoric being thrown around, (and an angry private message to me, wow). One of the reasons our country is great is that we are free to express unpopular ideas without being suppressed, harrassed or arrested.
The founding fathers were nominally Christian, in that they were members of a church, but they were not that keen on the basic tenets of the faith. In this era they would be called out as "not Christian enough" as Obama has been. In those days the populace had no way of knowing the leader's true beliefs. In fact, we still don't know, obviously, what a politician really believes. For the founding fathers we have reams of writings to go by.

Jefferson's interpretation of the first amendment in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association (January 1, 1802):
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Adams signed the Treaty of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tripoli</st1:place></st1:City> (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
"The government of the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion”
Additional quote from James Madison:
"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
The Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights: The Founding Fathers on Religion (https://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?id=6177)

"The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion." Thomas Paine

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
Ben Franklin
Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians (https://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html)

Kaya

05-20-2010, 02:20 PM

Sylph

05-21-2010, 02:57 AM

History tells us that "In God we Trust" was put on our money during the Civil War.

There is a whole lot more than " In God we Trust " on our money .
I'm very sorry I posted any religion or politics I will NEVER do it again.
Kaya

You know what they say "never bring up sex, religion or politics in a polite gathering". Wacco is more rough and tumble, not always polite, and you can expect a heated debate about lots of topics.For me, ..it's been fun, dismaying and, most of all, mentally stimulating. Cheers!

LenInSebastopol

05-23-2010, 06:46 AM

You could not be farther from the truth as the East is from the West. The link below shows two things, as least, they all (Thomas Paine excepted) were believers; they all did not like Catholics; they all did not like Europe and the church of any particular empire therein, and it is a valid inference they wanted to keep the church safe from the state (NOT like Europe), they knew their history. Nothing cited contradict the above. Oh, and as true 'humanists' and reformers, they knew that religion plus power equals a bloody mess. What the site does prove is all editorial and that guy's belief and take on theings. Outside of that, it also shows that the man who kept the site never really read John Adams.
As for your notions of prayer and private matters, cool. Respect is the name of the game, so when others gather publicly to pray, as in for our nation and it's leaders, I will trust it doesn't interfere with your biz. Actually, talking on cell phones are really a private matter.

From: Sylph <small> Supporting member </small>
Category: Censored & Un-Censored
Thread: National Day of Prayer Canceled?
Prayer should be a private matter between a person and his or her God. This National Day of Prayer has become a hypocritical litmus test to see if a political figure is "Christian enough". I have friends, who dislike Obama (and are not particularly religious) who keep forwarding this false claim that Obama cancelled the Day of Prayer as if they are outraged. Why have a public observance, anyway? Who needs someone telling us when and how to pray, pray tell?

The founding fathers were deists, not Christians, if you go by what they
wrote in private. I keep hearing Fox talking heads saying that they were Christians. Take a look at what they wrote:
Founding Father Quotes on Religion (https://www.barefootsworld.net/founding.html)

Why do you or anyone else even try to argue the fact that this is and was founded a Christian Nation. We ( America ) do NOT and have never advertised anything but Christianity , do you see budah or Islam or any other religion on our money ? Why must people fight the facts ? Explain to me please for starters the 13 arrows and the 13 olive branchs printed on the money in your pocket ? We ( Americans ) should not change nor evolve into a New America , there was nothing wrong with her to begin with , that is why you have this platform to bash her ..Freedom my friend , you should go to another land and tell them that there long traditions that have been loved are wacked now thing's have changed ..PLEASE get a grip , it is only here in America where so many get to bite the hand that feeds them ....

Sylph

05-23-2010, 12:52 PM

LenInSebastopol;You could not be farther from the truth as the East is from the West.
Politicians will continue to be pious in public, no matter what their personal beliefs. I have no problem with the ritual prayers that take place before a session of Congress or a football game. As long as a certain religious sect is not being pushed. It's a nice moment for a bit of meditation and reflection.
But, I don't like the idea of insisting on a big 'whoop-de-do' on the day of prayer. Doesn't the Bible say not to flaunt your prayers in public?
Matthew chapter 6, verses 5-6,

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Karen the KAT

05-23-2010, 10:42 PM

Politicians will continue to be pious in public, no matter what their personal beliefs. I have no problem with the ritual prayers that take place before a session of Congress or a football game. As long as a certain religious sect is not being pushed. It's a nice moment for a bit of meditation and reflection.
But, I don't like the idea of insisting on a big 'whoop-de-do' on the day of prayer. Doesn't the Bible say not to flaunt your prayers in public?
Matthew chapter 6, verses 5-6,

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Good quote. The National Day of Prayer was instituted as a day that people were to pray for the Nation and each other, and like all things such, became politicized in the 90's.

I also agree with your statement that politicians are pious in public and might be less so in private (LOL!). Still, our President could at least lead a non-denominational prayer, and his unwillingness to take part is a big red flag to a lot of people, while his allowing Muslims to pray at the Capitol is an even bigger red flag as most people are Christian and most feel that Islam is not a peaceful religion.

Again I say this based on the precepts of the religion not on it's actions (Islam is thus dually un-peaceful), because as Miles pointed out, there have been plenty of peoples from all religions that have acted quite aggressively. However the basic precepts of Buddhism and Christianity are to live in peace, They both teach that people are not to be forced to convert, but that they will willingly do so once they realize the benefits they have to offer. Christianity says flat out that not all will do so and that this is Ok and they are to be left in peace.

This is not true of Islam, who's most basic precept is convert or die. How can then anybody not be worried when such a religion stands on the steps of our capitol and prays. If they are true Muslims, then they are praying that this soon be part of the Islamic empire, for to do anything else is forbidden.

In the last ten years, Islam has demanded it's place in America, but always at the cost of Christianity. It's fine to say: "We deserve a spot too", although you already have it so what's the big deal? It's a different to say that one religion should be pushed to the side to make way for you. This is nothing more than an attack against people who are different than you, and it should be treated as such. Islam is not a religion, it is a utterly total way of life who's ultimate goal is a Islamic World by any means possible. We call them "Islamic Countries" for a reason: Their religion IS their way of life and it IS their government. There is zero separation of church and state, and this should be enough for even the most tolerant liberal to oppose Islam. There can simply be no reckoning with Islam, because it is a one-way street of World domination, and there is no room for you in it, unless you convert.

If you value your way of life and your freedoms, then you are being completely counterproductive by giving any concessions to such a mindset.

You can spout the first amendment all you want when you speak of Islam, but you are just supporting your own demise.

Again, I say, there are only two choices with Islam: Join it or oppose it. If you do nothing and practice tolerance for such a philosophy, you are in effect supporting it.

Islam is no different than Nazism, because it seeks to dominate the World by force, just hides behind a veil of religion. Had Hitler been smarter, he would have declared the Nazi party to be a religion, just like crazy Ronnie did with Scientology.

Pick your side, you are either for or against Islam, there can be no middle ground as Islam doesn't allow it.

For those who asked if I supported the annihilation of Islam, I have to say yes, because I don't seek the annihilation of America. I don't say I like it, but I didn't make the rules and define the choices, Islam did, and I cannot support their evil quest of a totally Islamic planet. By their goal, they have made themselves the enemy of everyone else.

I expect a lot of emotional BS in response to this but the logic is ill-refutable, so whatever you have to say is just the emotional blather, and ignorance of childish Pollyannaism. When you open your mouth, you effectively stick your head in the sand, and identify yourself as your own worst enemy.

It doesn't matter how much you wish it was otherwise, 2+2=4, and if you support Islam and are not Muslim, you are the ultimate dupe, a person of no logic, and you are the enemy of everyone that would live free. The logic of what I have said is ill

Go ahead, give it your best shot, I'm wondering who America's enemies are, so show yourselves, and when Armageddon starts we can use you as cannon fodder. You can run towards Islam, tell them how you stood up for them, and get your reward: A hail of AK-47 bullets, as Islam reserves it highest level of contempt for the Godless and those who would help, but not convert, as it considers such people to be the ultimate fools...

Karen the KAT

05-23-2010, 10:46 PM

OOps, typo:

The logic of what I have said is illrefutable.

I know somebody will jump on that if I didn't fix it.

LOL!!! at them...

Debunker

05-23-2010, 11:03 PM

There's no crazies like fundie crazies.

Good quote. The National Day of Prayer was instituted as a day that people were to pray for the Nation and each other, and like all things such, became politicized in the 90's.

I also agree with your statement that politicians are pious in public and might be less so in private (LOL!). Still, our President could at least lead a non-denominational prayer, and his unwillingness to take part is a big red flag to a lot of people, while his allowing Muslims to pray at the Capitol is an even bigger red flag as most people are Christian and most feel that Islam is not a peaceful religion.

Again I say this based on the precepts of the religion not on it's actions (Islam is thus dually un-peaceful), because as Miles pointed out, there have been plenty of peoples from all religions that have acted quite aggressively. However the basic precepts of Buddhism and Christianity are to live in peace, They both teach that people are not to be forced to convert, but that they will willingly do so once they realize the benefits they have to offer. Christianity says flat out that not all will do so and that this is Ok and they are to be left in peace.

This is not true of Islam, who's most basic precept is convert or die. How can then anybody not be worried when such a religion stands on the steps of our capitol and prays. If they are true Muslims, then they are praying that this soon be part of the Islamic empire, for to do anything else is forbidden.

In the last ten years, Islam has demanded it's place in America, but always at the cost of Christianity. It's fine to say: "We deserve a spot too", although you already have it so what's the big deal? It's a different to say that one religion should be pushed to the side to make way for you. This is nothing more than an attack against people who are different than you, and it should be treated as such. Islam is not a religion, it is a utterly total way of life who's ultimate goal is a Islamic World by any means possible. We call them "Islamic Countries" for a reason: Their religion IS their way of life and it IS their government. There is zero separation of church and state, and this should be enough for even the most tolerant liberal to oppose Islam. There can simply be no reckoning with Islam, because it is a one-way street of World domination, and there is no room for you in it, unless you convert.

If you value your way of life and your freedoms, then you are being completely counterproductive by giving any concessions to such a mindset.

You can spout the first amendment all you want when you speak of Islam, but you are just supporting your own demise.

Again, I say, there are only two choices with Islam: Join it or oppose it. If you do nothing and practice tolerance for such a philosophy, you are in effect supporting it.

Islam is no different than Nazism, because it seeks to dominate the World by force, just hides behind a veil of religion. Had Hitler been smarter, he would have declared the Nazi party to be a religion, just like crazy Ronnie did with Scientology.

Pick your side, you are either for or against Islam, there can be no middle ground as Islam doesn't allow it.

For those who asked if I supported the annihilation of Islam, I have to say yes, because I don't seek the annihilation of America. I don't say I like it, but I didn't make the rules and define the choices, Islam did, and I cannot support their evil quest of a totally Islamic planet. By their goal, they have made themselves the enemy of everyone else.

I expect a lot of emotional BS in response to this but the logic is ill-refutable, so whatever you have to say is just the emotional blather, and ignorance of childish Pollyannaism. When you open your mouth, you effectively stick your head in the sand, and identify yourself as your own worst enemy.

It doesn't matter how much you wish it was otherwise, 2+2=4, and if you support Islam and are not Muslim, you are the ultimate dupe, a person of no logic, and you are the enemy of everyone that would live free. The logic of what I have said is ill

Go ahead, give it your best shot, I'm wondering who America's enemies are, so show yourselves, and when Armageddon starts we can use you as cannon fodder. You can run towards Islam, tell them how you stood up for them, and get your reward: A hail of AK-47 bullets, as Islam reserves it highest level of contempt for the Godless and those who would help, but not convert, as it considers such people to be the ultimate fools...

Karen the KAT

05-23-2010, 11:17 PM

There's no crazies like fundie crazies.

If you are referring to me, then I'm so ROFLMAO!, and I've gotta ask: "what are you smoking?"

I'm anything but a fundamentalist, I'm simply speaking logic: 2+2=4. If you support somebody that wants to rule the World be force, you are either an idiot, or just downright evil.

It may not be pretty and nice, but it is what it is, and no amount of wishful thinking will change reality.

Fundies are are exactly what I am railing against. They come in all shapes and sizes, of all religions, even the religion of Liberalism, where I find some of the most very closed minds.

The World isn't a pretty place...

Karen the KAT

05-23-2010, 11:34 PM

How can I be a pot smoking transsexual and be a fundie? I'm not a church goer, I'm not a Republican, I don't like either party, because their members are all Lemmings who in their single minded blindness, enable those whom they dislike, and whom seek to control them.

I'm the one with the liberal mind.

The so-called "Liberals" aren't very liberal at all, It's either their way or the highway, you are all as closed minded as the Muslims.

The term "Liberal is a complete misnomer, much like "Conscious Community" and "Progressive"

Fucking hilarious..........

Islam's ultimate goal is a 100% Islamic World by whatever means necessary, including genocide against all unbelievers.

That statement is really all I need.

It's no different than Nazism, it just calls itself a religion, and ignorant people fall for it.

So tell me, is your shit hydrophonic, or outdoor???

LenInSebastopol

05-24-2010, 08:05 AM

There's no crazies like fundie crazies.

That's it? That's your best shot? Oh, no time....can't blame you but..... there are no crazies like all crazies, be they fundies, progries, neocons, repubs, or all the others.

The lady has a small point to make, though it is a bit off.
All the Islamic countries do allow other religions, similarly as America "allowed" Negroes to "live". There is not an Islamic country ever, by anybody's history, that allowed full political participation by anyone other than Muslim. It's a fact that if a person was not a Muslim, they were not fully "normal". Though the same could be said for every other country on Earth, until AMERICA and even then there were Christian values that had to be publicly maintained. It IS a struggle. There is precedent in the fear she expressed, as well as language currently by influential Muslims that indicate such would be the case if and when America accepts a Muslim way of life. Poo poo all we wish, it is still out there.
A minor point, as I get older I too see a similar "moral decay" that all old folks have seen in the coming generation.....probably normal aging process....but I fear that Muslims offer an "answer" to the woes & weary way of a complex life that we find ourselves, albeit the simple one of "just giving it all over" to them....it's happening, folks.....the contest for the "simple solution". But then that may just be an old man's fears.

Kaya

05-24-2010, 11:55 AM

Karen the KAT

05-24-2010, 12:38 PM

I would never surrender to the norm..Please !!!!!... the norm are followers !.. BLIND SHEEP!!! ...led by a WOLF in sheeps clothing...a bunch of mis led fools not knowing it...To control and make someone think as you is WRONG !!!!!!.....FREEDOM!!!!!....FREEDOM!!!!!.....Freedom to choose !!!!!...and.. Free Will !!!!!! .. This is the way and the only way !!!!!!!!!!! This is AMERICA !!!!!!! .... If you believe not ? .. then YOU are not my brother !!! nor are you an AMERICAN ......

Truly, Kaya.....

ps ..Karen the Kat ...I think I love your spirit .:):

Yeah Kaya! You are so right!

I see so many who spend their lives chasing one thing after another that is simply a carefully contrived way to get their blind devotion and thus their time, effort, and ultimately, money.

So many "free thinking progressives" are anything but. Their minds are so closed to things they don't like. They are so emotionally attached to an idea that they are blinded to reality. They are trying so hard to be "different" that they become blinded to the fact that they have become the norm.

Again I say: There is no difference between the hard left and the hard right, except the hard right are slightly more tolerant than the supposedly "tolerant left".

If you want to find hate and intolerance, just go to any of the leftist sites. They HATE Sarah Palin, they HATE tea partiers, and yet what are those two saying: There's too much government and it's not serving the greater good of the people.

I'm not a big fan of either but I do understand many of their points, and if forced to make a choice between Sarah and Barrack, I'll take the freedom from big government of the former over the micromanagement of the latter. The left HATES her so much, and it just tells me that she must be on to something

Look at all the hate I find here for a good example. I set forth FACTS that others don't like and I get intense EMOTIONS back in return.

Once I printed the list of PLO bombings, the BS stopped pretty quickly, as even the majority of the most deluded realized their case was hollow, as the evidence was so preponderantly against them.

As you can tell, I've had a pretty intense, worldly and "interesting" life, and that intenseness has made me a very full person. It has also given me an immense appreciation for America, and it's unique way of life. I've traveled very extensively, and I've seen first hand the things others quote from books, and I've seen the mistakes America has made, but they pale compared to the rest of the World. We are a unique place in the World, there is nothing else like us. We are truly the land of the free, BECAUSE we are based on simple principals as set forth by Christ 2010 years ago. Those who would seek to change the basic things about America that made her great, are indeed, her enemy.

Love your spirit too.

Karen

Braggi

05-24-2010, 05:20 PM

Braggi

05-24-2010, 05:31 PM

Kaya

05-24-2010, 05:54 PM

Isn't Christ the "Good Shepherd?" Aren't Christians the self-proclaimed sheep? ... the "flock?" The vehemence here is curious. Most un-Christlike.

-Jeff

Jeff ,

America never asked it's people to be Christian nor demanded it.
America did embrace Christianity in depth and claimed it .
I think people today relate being a Christian to the Catholic church or the MANY other religion's who claim Christ for profit. If you want to admit it or not you are probably a fan of freedom and free will to choose whatever you wish to believe in ..Right ? ..Then you are also a fan of Christ and you dont even know it. I find it a shame that the media and false teachers have made the Holy Bible and Jesus a laughing matter...It is not . America was blessed by God because we held his hand in many ways and represented HIS believes, it does not matter who you love or dont or who you believe in ..what matters is that any human can choose themselves what they wish to ...that is the beauty of AMERICA and why so many have died and given up anything to get here ..FOR THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE...again I say FACT is FACT...do your homework before you say America is not or was not a Christian nation....and please remember it is our AMERICA all of us and PLEASE try not to disrespect the 100, 000's of good young men and women that have taken there last breath cold and alone with holes ripped through there body SO you can bad mouth AMERICA and her believes...when you all get your wish and complete the changinging of our great nation then she will be special NO more.... God Bless America....Kaya

Karen the KAT

05-24-2010, 06:28 PM

Isn't Christ the "Good Shepherd?" Aren't Christians the self-proclaimed sheep? ... the "flock?" The vehemence here is curious. Most un-Christlike.

-Jeff

As I would expect from you Jeff, because you're a troll. You look for the tiniest opening, and then spout ambiguous phrases of dissent. This is called: Trolling, and it's your MO.

You haven't addressed the truth of what Kaya says, because as a hard lefty who blindly follows anything that he hears on NPR, you know it applies, and there's no real argument against that.

Let me educate you (something it seems I always wind up doing whenever we meet) Christ also ran thru the Temples, calling the money changers out for what they were and throwing their money in the air. He also stood off Satan in the Desert, he also told the Pharisees what BS they actually were.

Christ never said we were to be wimpy little automatons, he expected people to fight for what was right. He also said: "Hate the devil in all his forms of evil", and closed mindedness is evil whether it comes from the right or left.

Go figure...

Grow a brain and question all the crap that the left feeds you, as much as you question anything that doesn't conform to your emotions.

Try facts for once, it's easier to look in the mirror and feel honest that way.

Karen the KAT

05-24-2010, 06:37 PM

Sylph

05-24-2010, 06:50 PM

SO you can bad mouth AMERICA and her believes...when you all get your wish and complete the changinging of our great nation then she will be special NO more.... God Bless America....Kaya

Who on this thread is bad mouthing America?? Why all the shouting? Is someone trying to stir things up? :wink:

Facts...what Obama said was that "We are not a Christian nation, not a Muslim nation, etc. He also said "we are a predominantly Christian nation".

"I think that where – where there’s the most promise of building stronger U.S.-Turkish relations is in the recognition that Turkey and the United States can build a model partnership in which a predominantly Christian nation and a predominantly Muslim nation, a Western nation and a nation that straddles two continents – that we can create a modern international community that is respectful, that is secure, that is prosperous; that there are not tensions, inevitable tensions, between cultures, which I think is extraordinarily important.
That’s something that’s very important to me. And I’ve said before that one of the great strengths of the United States is – although as I mentioned, we have a very large Christian population, we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation; we consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values" Pres.Obama

The Muslim Day of Prayer held last year was not related to the National Day of Prayer as is implied in the first post.
The National Day of Prayer was not canceled, Obama participated in it by reading a proclamation: in which he "call[ed] upon Americans to pray in thanksgiving for our freedoms and blessings and to ask for God’s continued guidance, grace, and protection for this land that we love."

Kaya

05-24-2010, 07:35 PM

Who on this thread is bad mouthing America?? Why all the shouting? Is someone trying to stir things up? :wink:

Nobody is trying to stir things up.:wink:

AMERICA = CHRISTIAN

"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves"
-Abraham Lincoln

Sylph

05-24-2010, 08:12 PM

I'm very sorry I posted any religion or politics I will NEVER do it again

Me neither!

When the Know-Nothings get control, it [the Declaration of Independence] will read: "All men are created equal except negroes, foreigners and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.
[/quote]

Kaya

05-24-2010, 08:21 PM

my bad ...i dont want to fight or argue really ..
to each his own..Kaya:thumbsup:

Sylph

05-24-2010, 10:17 PM

my bad ...i dont want to fight or argue really ..
to each his own..Kaya:thumbsup:
I hate to fight, but I love a good argument.
I think, on further research, that Lincoln might have been a Christian, but he was a complex character who may have had serous doubts, and an individual full of contradictions, as we all are!

Karen the KAT

05-25-2010, 02:43 AM

I hate to fight, but I love a good argument.
I think, on further research, that Lincoln might have been a Christian, but he was a complex character who may have had serous doubts, and an individual full of contradictions, as we all are!

To me there's a major difference between being a Christian in spirit and simply going to a church and thus calling yourself a Christian. This was the basis for Martin Luther's Thesis's of Wurms, and the Protestant reformation. This of course got sidetracked and turned into another way to control people before Martin died.

The Pilgrims later fled the Church of England in order to get back to God, and then the Rhode Island Colony was formed to get away from the Puritans and get closer to God (or not).

Whenever somebody has the simple idea of doing away with all the crap that comes from being an organized religion, somebody else comes along and forms a new religion based on it and it thus becomes yet another church full of people with all their imperfectness.

This was what your man Lincoln was complaining about, and it's the same complaint I have today, but I can tell you that in word and deed, Lincoln was a follower of Christ, and thus a Christian, but like many before and since he got tired of the church coming between him and God, and he got tired of Christianity getting a bad rap because of things that self obsessed people within the church did and said. Again, same complaint of those before and after.

As Lenin pointed out, the people whom the author of your article so carefully picked and chose quotes from, were Christians the lot, they may have had issues with the church, but this doesn't mean they were not followers of Christ. And again, in word and deed they proved themselves to Christians over and over again. If they weren't, you and I wouldn't be writing these letters so freely.

Get the concepts of Being a Christian in spirit and the religion called Christianity separated in your mind, because if you do, then maybe you will find that being Christian is to truly be a good person who loves their God, themselves and their neighbor, but is also not a simpleton nor a push over.

I used to think like you did, and I couldn't see the sense of being a "Christian" I knew there was a God, because among my way too many years in school and my way too many majors, I had enough of a science and math background to realize that the odds that there was a God, were so much greater than not, that only a fool would think otherwise, but I also saw all the bad that had been done in the name of "Christianity", that I had a hard time reconciling the two. When I finally thought it thru, I realized the truth of separation of the spiritual part of being a follower of the teachings of Jesus, and the big business that is so called: "Christianity".

This is why preponderantly so many of the great minds of science were and are believers of a single unifying higher power, and of those, the majority found themselves to be some sort of spiritual, but not churchgoing Christian. Even Darwin said that Evolution was simply a better way to explain how God created things.

Here's the great thing about being a follower of Christ: You don't have to actually believe in God at all, if you just follow what his life was about as an example of life philosophy and you try to live by that, you will wind up with a happier, less stressful and more peaceful life. There may still be a lot of things that you don't have answers for, but they won't cause you to trip as much.

Regardless of how you look at it, the founding fathers were Christians in word and deed, regardless of whether they ever set foot in a church, or called themselves "Christian".

To me, this is all very simple...

Braggi

05-25-2010, 11:47 AM

To me there's a major difference between being a Christian in spirit and simply going to a church and thus calling yourself a Christian. This was the basis for Martin Luther's Thesis's of Wurms, and the Protestant reformation. ...

???? If you are referring to the Diet of Worms of 1521 you should know that Luther's "95 Theses" were one of many of the works of Luther that were under investigation and condemnation by the church and Emperor Charles V. Luther's 95 Theses were largely condemning practices of the Church and had little to do with "calling yourself a Christian."

... Here's the great thing about being a follower of Christ: You don't have to actually believe in God at all, if you just follow what his life was about as an example of life philosophy and you try to live by that, you will wind up with a happier, less stressful and more peaceful life. ...

Again, ???? You might want to do some research on that question. Belief is the basis of Christianity. Without "faith" you are lost, according to Christian writings. I've never heard an expert on Christianity say what you are saying. Perhaps you ought to read up. Here's a nice link for you: Is Belief in Jesus Necessary? (https://www.equip.org/articles/is-belief-in-jesus-necessary-)

You could also try the New Testament of the Holy Bible. References abound.

... To me, this is all very simple...

And you must lead your own life. No one else can do it for you. But you should know that every time humans attempt to simplify reality, they get in trouble of one sort or another. Life isn't simple, although, some of the teachings of the Holy Bible are explicit and clear. For instance, one of my favorites from 1 Corinthians 14 (King James Version):

33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. [end quote]

-Jeff

LenInSebastopol

05-25-2010, 12:23 PM

Isn't Christ the "Good Shepherd?" Aren't Christians the self-proclaimed sheep? ... the "flock?" The vehemence here is curious. Most un-Christlike.
-Jeff

Yes, we are sheep. So?
Yes, there is only one Shepard, and everyone else is simply rock n' role. And the rest are ticked off since they all want to be the savior of name-that-politic.

LenInSebastopol

05-25-2010, 12:47 PM

???? If you are referring to the Diet of Worms of 1521 you should know that Luther's "95 Theses" were one of many of the works of Luther that were under investigation and condemnation by the church and Emperor Charles V. Luther's 95 Theses were largely condemning practices of the Church and had little to do with "calling yourself a Christian."

True that!
Of course at that time there was no such thing as "calling yourself a Christian", much like today one claiming they are a Venusian since they saw the planet through a telescope. We always like context, eh?

And you must lead your own life. No one else can do it for you. But you should know that every time humans attempt to simplify reality, they get in trouble of one sort or another. Life isn't simple, although, some of the teachings of the Holy Bible are explicit and clear. For instance, one of my favorites from 1 Corinthians 14 (King James Version):
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. [end quote]
-Jeff

Awesome!
So the nature of God is that He's a Uniter, so I guess the other guy is a divider!
And what sane guy wants his wife asking about such important things outside of their kitchen? You want your spouse to ask what's happening with North Korea in regards to their accusations that South Korea bombed it's own ship? Or the extent of the communication problems regarding sexual dysfuntion as related to the monetary state of your financial status? You want to talk that talk in public, go ahead. I don't think they did.
I like the line (36) about, "you thought that up all by yourself"? Like I had my own language, words, and syntax, and never heard talk from some one else on ANYTHING! wow. And line 37, as if someone made up their own laws on property, personal harm, etc, and then carried their own brand of punishment. Ha, ha, ha. As if!
No, they were a practical people and the out of context post with the idea of leading those that do not know the proper context down the gilded path of false notions simply does not cut it. I've always liked the KISS approach, but it doesn't work for some reason or t'other

Karen the KAT

05-25-2010, 02:04 PM

???? If you are referring to the Diet of Worms of 1521 you should know that Luther's "95 Theses" were one of many of the works of Luther that were under investigation and condemnation by the church and Emperor Charles V. Luther's 95 Theses were largely condemning practices of the Church and had little to do with "calling yourself a Christian."

Again, ???? You might want to do some research on that question. Belief is the basis of Christianity. Without "faith" you are lost, according to Christian writings. I've never heard an expert on Christianity say what you are saying. Perhaps you ought to read up. Here's a nice link for you: Is Belief in Jesus Necessary? (https://www.equip.org/articles/is-belief-in-jesus-necessary-)

You could also try the New Testament of the Holy Bible. References abound.

And you must lead your own life. No one else can do it for you. But you should know that every time humans attempt to simplify reality, they get in trouble of one sort or another. Life isn't simple, although, some of the teachings of the Holy Bible are explicit and clear. For instance, one of my favorites from 1 Corinthians 14 (King James Version):

33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. [end quote]

-Jeff

Hey Troll Boy, I'm in a generous mood, so I'm going to give you until later tonight to delete, re-think, and re-compose your post, and then I'm going to tear you to shreds using your own words, and the facts you miss-interpreted, missed, and otherwise made up, quoted out of context, or changed.

I swear; you, Conrad, Baba, Barry and the rest of you lost leftists are way too easy, because you all hand me the keys to defeating your emotions with facts and logic.

Ah, the calamity of fairly intelligent, but completely closed minds. Such willing tools of the very entities you hate...

"Progressive Liberal", the great misnomer...

Braggi

05-25-2010, 02:21 PM

Hey Troll Boy, ... I swear; you, Conrad, Baba, Barry and the rest of you lost leftists are way too easy, because you all hand me the keys to defeating your emotions with facts and logic.

Ah, the calamity of fairly intelligent, but completely closed minds. Such willing tools of the very entities you hate...

"Progressive Liberal", the great misnomer...

Emotions? Karen, I'll let your posts speak for themselves.

Closed minds? ???? Really? Heh heh. Does that mean we're welcome to your opinion?

Yes, I think you'll have to defeat me with your facts and logic. You think very highly of them, that's clear.

Have fun.

Love you,

-Jeff

Kaya

05-25-2010, 02:35 PM

Jeff you are tempting Karen the KAT to scratch the shit out of you ...I think you are enjoying everything she has to say .........:wink:....Kaya

Karen the KAT

05-25-2010, 02:40 PM

Emotions? Karen, I'll let your posts speak for themselves.

Closed minds? ???? Really? Heh heh. Does that mean we're welcome to your opinion?

Yes, I think you'll have to defeat me with your facts and logic. You think very highly of them, that's clear.

Have fun.

Love you,

-Jeff

ROFL (at work), amazing how you yet again, quote out of context, (LMAO)... Oh this will be fun!

Braggi

05-25-2010, 02:56 PM

... AMERICA = CHRISTIAN

"America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves"
-Abraham Lincoln

"...wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."

Right Kaya?

-Jeff

Kaya

05-25-2010, 03:13 PM

I try to keep it simple Jeff , there is nothing new under the Sun my friend we just like to think so , sick little humans we are .....Kaya......

theindependenteye

05-25-2010, 05:27 PM

>>>]Hey Troll Boy, I'm in a generous mood, so I'm going to give you until later tonight to delete, re-think, and re-compose your post, and then I'm going to tear you to shreds ...
>>>I swear; you, Conrad, Baba, Barry and the rest of you lost leftists a
>>>completely closed minds. Such willing tools of the very entities you hate...

Dear Karen—
I disagree with your ideas about the Palestinians, I agree with a lot of what you say about Christianity, but I don't think I've intentionally called you names or

LenInSebastopol

05-25-2010, 05:54 PM

Easy does it as the rest of them put their jets into overdrive. It's often a way of suggesting that they are having fun.....names won't hurt terribly so much....it's the old standards of FLAME WAR.....but if they lose the thread and simply stay in the name calling biz, then all are the losers for it......and that happens all to often.
Don't take offense as it's like sibling kittens playing with each other while their claws are out....little tiny scratches.

>>>]Hey Troll Boy, I'm in a generous mood, so I'm going to give you until later tonight to delete, re-think, and re-compose your post, and then I'm going to tear you to shreds ...
>>>I swear; you, Conrad, Baba, Barry and the rest of you lost leftists a
>>>completely closed minds. Such willing tools of the very entities you hate...

Dear Karen—
I disagree with your ideas about the Palestinians, I agree with a lot of what you say about Christianity, but I don't think I've intentionally called you names or

theindependenteye

05-25-2010, 05:57 PM