YouTube - IBM EXPOSED! NWO Propaganda For RFID Microchipping (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkcxHGnm6tM&playnext_from=TL&videos=1fCA7fuhcus&feature=sub)
Id be interested to hear what others think about this.
LenInSebastopol
05-10-2010, 06:11 AM
The piece showed only economic/commercial benefits, plus using sexy grandmas getting a little that was SOOOO cute! So that should sell well!
Seriously, I need a little help on the downside as I live such a boring life I don't give a rip about the gov't and what "they" "know" about me & mine. It's part of the bad attitude that I've settled upon so I hope the issues aren't theoretical since that attitude prevents me from applications. I could use a little help here. TIA.
hales
05-10-2010, 09:25 PM
Thank you for bringing this up for discussion, Someguy.
Like Joe Biden said in the video at the end of the video, we will be dealing with these issues in the near future, whether we want to or not, because there are several actual problems that are looming in our society, and this RFID technology could provide solutions for them, even if some of us feel it is intrusive to our privacy, freedom, rights, etc.
For instance; an increasing number of aging people, many of whom have some degree of dementia, or Alzheimer's disease. Increasing numbers of people who might want to make off with, or misuse equipment, vehicles or other property that do not belong to them. As in the video, a higher volume of people who might not be able to communicate when their heath problems interfere with their ability to communicate, or when their records are not accessible in a timely manner. More efficient access to information and the ability to track people, products and property could make many things easier and more convenient. It could also be used to control or track anyone else, in many cases. Many of us are already voluntarily carrying cell phones which can emit GPS signals and track our location.. do you know for certain if this function is on or off, right now? Does it matter?
I know someone who recently told me that he took a whole foods shopping cart home, because he had really been wanting one, to use around the property.. if i were Whole foods, I would happily put RFID chips in the carts, if they were affordable.
I (strongly) prefer not to be "chipped", but if I loose enough marbles, it might be a more practical, if not attractive, prospect, especially if I needed medication, or to avoid some particular medication, or if I needed to be returned to someplace. I sincerely hope I never have to deal with that situation, however.
If I had a beloved pet or a slightly dotty relative, I might be much more willing to consider this technology, if it meant I could keep track of my loved relative or pooch.. keeping them safe and being able to locate them. Nothing scarier than not being able to know where a loved one is and if they are safe or not.
I fear we will be seeing more 1984-ish applications in the near future, with mass releases of felons, due to lack of funds, and errors judicial and enforcement sectors, etc. It seems to me that with our infrastructure falling apart, to some degree, these kinds of "solutions" will be used, at some point, similarly to the electronic cuffs now used for home detention.
Anyway, this issue will not go away, soon; we are bound to see some applications that may be practical and life saving, as well as some that are intrusive, unethical or just spooky.
Thanks again for starting this interesting and pertinent discussion.
YouTube - IBM EXPOSED! NWO Propaganda For RFID Microchipping (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkcxHGnm6tM&playnext_from=TL&videos=1fCA7fuhcus&feature=sub)
Id be interested to hear what others think about this.
someguy
05-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Thank you for bringing this up for discussion, Someguy.
Like Joe Biden said in the video at the end of the video, we will be dealing with these issues in the near future, whether we want to or not, because there are several actual problems that are looming in our society, and this RFID technology could provide solutions for them, even if some of us feel it is intrusive to our privacy, freedom, rights, etc.
For instance; an increasing number of aging people, many of whom have some degree of dementia, or Alzheimer's disease. Increasing numbers of people who might want to make off with, or misuse equipment, vehicles or other property that do not belong to them. As in the video, a higher volume of people who might not be able to communicate when their heath problems interfere with their ability to communicate, or when their records are not accessible in a timely manner. More efficient access to information and the ability to track people, products and property could make many things easier and more convenient. It could also be used to control or track anyone else, in many cases. Many of us are already voluntarily carrying cell phones which can emit GPS signals and track our location.. do you know for certain if this function is on or off, right now? Does it matter?
I know someone who recently told me that he took a whole foods shopping cart home, because he had really been wanting one, to use around the property.. if i were Whole foods, I would happily put RFID chips in the carts, if they were affordable.
I (strongly) prefer not to be "chipped", but if I loose enough marbles, it might be a more practical, if not attractive, prospect, especially if I needed medication, or to avoid some particular medication, or if I needed to be returned to someplace. I sincerely hope I never have to deal with that situation, however.
If I had a beloved pet or a slightly dotty relative, I might be much more willing to consider this technology, if it meant I could keep track of my loved relative or pooch.. keeping them safe and being able to locate them. Nothing scarier than not being able to know where a loved one is and if they are safe or not.
I fear we will be seeing more 1984-ish applications in the near future, with mass releases of felons, due to lack of funds, and errors judicial and enforcement sectors, etc. It seems to me that with our infrastructure falling apart, to some degree, these kinds of "solutions" will be used, at some point, similarly to the electronic cuffs now used for home detention.
Anyway, this issue will not go away, soon; we are bound to see some applications that may be practical and life saving, as well as some that are intrusive, unethical or just spooky.
Thanks again for starting this interesting and pertinent discussion.
Scott
I agree with your views on this Scott. If people so desire to implanted with RFID chips, who am I to tell them no? Its their body, and they are free to do what they so choose with it. It may even come in handy for some, especially the elderly with serious health issues.
However, I strongly feel that this will become mandatory in the future, and that is something I am totally against. I feel it to be a complete intrusion into my personal privacy, and an easy way for identity thieves to gain access to all kinds of information that is highly sensitive.
Furthermore, I feel like those commercials and television spots from IBM are attempting to normalize this technology and imply that everyone should get chipped. I personally don't want to live in a society where everyone can be tracked at all times, and peoples stats can be uploaded in a flash. I just don;t feel comfortable being scanned like some product off the supermarket shelf.
Thanks for the cool response Scott. :thumbsup:
LenInSebastopol
05-11-2010, 05:55 AM
Both S.G and Scott are right but I've not seen a downside to it yet. I guess their propaganda works! if all one may say is, "I don't like it", I don't blame you but I've yet to see a threat to personal liberty & freedom, other than....what?
My bad attitude doesn't help, but I don't give a fig what the gov't "thinks" of me, or where I am, or even what I am doing. About the only illegal thing I do, this week, is drive faster than posted. I suppose we can fire traffic cops when they set up a database of all vehicles driving 66 mph and they'll know and send tickets to our abodes, I would scream. Of course because they know each item I buy they can "adjust" my health insurance...oh, wait, soon I won't have to pay that....then they'll know my cholesterol amount and ban me buying certain foods (goodbye cheese), or they'll know if I am taking their drugs and if not...... No more cat scans? They'll know if I burn on a burn day? What if it is a two way chip? Transmitter and receiver? Maybe they can help me sleep at night?
Anyway, I've not seen a MAJOR downside to the chip.
And I am never going to get one.....just bad attitude.
PS: Scott, if you get an animal in this country from the Humane Society, it is already chipped.
Garden Goddess
05-12-2010, 07:46 AM
I believe that the major downside is this: Our Fascist government with it's fake "two party" system has become just a mechanism through which different corporations push their agenda.
No matter which political party is in power, the same agenda will be pushed. With all the talk about which party is to blame for the current situation (as defined and described by the media) though media-sponsored consensus building efforts that polarize the issues and turn them into comical farces, we won't see the true picture.
All governmental positions should be unpaid. That way, only those who really care about people and the planet will serve.I t should be illegal to attach unrelated items to legislation being decided upon in congress. How illogical does the government have to become before some people wake up?
As long as money is involved, we will see propaganda designed to make the public think that this technology is in their best interest.
They have an agenda. That agenda is about power and money. First the government will coerce consensus, through public service announcements) to chip all dangerous felons. Then they will chip all people entering the prison system, during the initial arrest, of course ("just our policy") Then they will chip all old people. ("For their future safety and their loved ones peace of mind ") Then they will begin to chip all babies born in hospitals ("you will thank us, if your child is ever taken...")
Soon all of the people who have somehow managed to avoid being chipped will not exist. At some point a receiver will be activated. At some point you will be scanned as you leave the grocery store and your account automatically debited. (Including the cost of the 3 grapes that you sampled in the produce department.) Soon doctors will have their licenses revoked for removing the chips. (Branded as terrorists perhaps?)
Need I say more? I'm not scared or paranoid, just a sane person who has worked for years in advertising. Analyse the media broadcasts for yourself. You are given a choice of one of two opinions to have. (Either for or against "us") The illogic of this escapes most people. I will never consent to a chip in
me or any member of my family.
LenInSebastopol
05-12-2010, 08:12 AM
I believe that the major downside is this: Our Fascist government with it's fake "two party" system has become just a mechanism through which different corporations push their agenda.
Yeah, strong coffee does that to me as well!
No matter which political party is in power, the same agenda will be pushed. With all the talk about which party is to blame for the current situation (as defined and described by the media) though media-sponsored consensus building efforts that polarize the issues and turn them into comical farces, we won't see the true picture.
The above indicates there is a "true picture" but is that not just another agenda? And one will always find others who have a different agenda, no?
All governmental positions should be unpaid. That way, only those who really care about people and the planet will serve.I t should be illegal to attach unrelated items to legislation being decided upon in congress. How illogical does the government have to become before some people wake up?
I used to think all gov't positions should be unpaid, but I changed as that would lead to only the wealthy ruling. If you were in office how would you eat, sleep, etc? Inherent in the notion is that serving is a noble pursuit, and I like that, as the contrary is (own interests) are repugnant. We are only human, so at best we should be in such service for a short while since power always corrupts.
As long as money is involved, we will see propaganda designed to make the public think that this technology is in their best interest.
Takes money to advance tech, so money will always be involved. Money is not evil, just one's love for it. So we need cut off access via short terms in a small gov't as the more gov't, the more humans, the more trouble.
They have an agenda. That agenda is about power and money. First the government will coerce consensus, through public service announcements) to chip all dangerous felons. Then they will chip all people entering the prison system, during the initial arrest, of course ("just our policy") Then they will chip all old people. ("For their future safety and their loved ones peace of mind ") Then they will begin to chip all babies born in hospitals ("you will thank us, if your child is ever taken...")
We will not allow, and it probably will be a fight, to chip everybody as a gov't mandate. As for felons, maybe, but states will dictate that as to what civil rights may be granted to felons. Although I like that Arnold movie that had explosives put around the necks of criminals! I don't like violent felons, just a guy thing maybe.
The issue is really inducing folks to get themselves chipped and pay for it. Folks are free to do that, not the gov't.
Soon all of the people who have somehow managed to avoid being chipped will not exist. At some point a receiver will be activated. At some point you will be scanned as you leave the grocery store and your account automatically debited. (Including the cost of the 3 grapes that you sampled in the produce department.) Soon doctors will have their licenses revoked for removing the chips. (Branded as terrorists perhaps?)
Again, this thread is about folks freely choosing. You are onto gov't control & mandated chipping. BTW, the gov't already has many of those controls and that goes without chipping.
Need I say more? I'm not scared or paranoid, just a sane person who has worked for years in advertising. Analyse the media broadcasts for yourself. You are given a choice of one of two opinions to have. (Either for or against "us") The illogic of this escapes most people. I will never consent to a chip in me or any member of my family.
You and me, kiddo. Problem is not the gov't mandating but folks PAYING money to have it done, so I still don't see the biggie problem. Your brush is a bit broad for me to deal with as the abstract and the real do not meet by definition. And it's GARDEN TIME.
podfish
05-12-2010, 08:39 AM
As Hales said, this isn't going away soon. I've posted before that I think fighting for privacy is possibly admirable and probably necessary but eventually doomed. RFID tagging is going to be ubiquitous, because it's so useful. It's yet another piece of the machine that's making it possible to "know" about everything. Computer technology is destroying the anonymity created by quantity. Things are no longer lost in the volume of data, but they can be searched out and identified. If your name was in a phone book in the 30's, it was still difficult for people in other cities to find you. That ended a long time ago. We're pretty close to having people trackable by security cameras with face-recognition software, so "they" will know which public places you've moved through. RFID tags are going to be embedded in almost all retail products to make inventory management easier. So when you leave a market, someone with a scanner can check out everything in your bag as you drive by. Or they'll be able to drive down the block and scan the contents of your pantry.
... I don't give a fig what the gov't "thinks" of me, or where I am, or even what I am doing. About the only illegal thing I do.... .
Despite my pessimism that we can avoid "the gov't" finding out all about us, it's still a bad thing even if you've never had an evil thought in your life. The information collected about you is notoriously inaccurate, and the bigger the quantity of information the harder it is to correct errors. So whether you realized it or not, your relative anonymity to the government protected you from midnight drug raids. The more times you show up in their data bases, the more likely you'll look 'interesting' to them.
LenInSebastopol
05-12-2010, 09:34 AM
As Hales said, this isn't going away soon. I've posted before that I think fighting for privacy is possibly admirable and probably necessary but eventually doomed. RFID tagging is going to be ubiquitous, because it's so useful. It's yet another piece of the machine that's making it possible to "know" about everything.
The fight for privacy will continue and need "refinement" as we "progress". I noted he was talking to intellectuals (Supreme Court judge) who figure out for the rest of us just how far to go with "stuff". I understand tagging has been successful to the point of being as real as that grand-mom pushing the cart through the scanner and having it all totaled instantly.
Computer technology is destroying the anonymity created by quantity. Things are no longer lost in the volume of data, but they can be searched out and identified. If your name was in a phone book in the 30's, it was still difficult for people in other cities to find you. That ended a long time ago. We're pretty close to having people trackable by security cameras with face-recognition software, so "they" will know which public places you've moved through. RFID tags are going to be embedded in almost all retail products to make inventory management easier. So when you leave a market, someone with a scanner can check out everything in your bag as you drive by. Or they'll be able to drive down the block and scan the contents of your pantry.
As information is power how will the gov't interface with all that is known about the individual? That is where the rubber will meet the road; how much cheese I buy will be correlated to my cholesterol, etc. and how will that show up in my medical record paid for by we-know-who. It will be like the insurance industry mandating by law that we all must have insurance to drive....Now my driving record links gov't to biz.
Despite my pessimism that we can avoid "the gov't" finding out all about us, it's still a bad thing even if you've never had an evil thought in your life. The information collected about you is notoriously inaccurate, and the bigger the quantity of information the harder it is to correct errors. So whether you realized it or not, your relative anonymity to the government protected you from midnight drug raids. The more times you show up in their data bases, the more likely you'll look 'interesting' to them.
You've made a painful point and I now stand in awe-full fear of what you say will come to pass, as it already has!
Of course, got a call the other day notifying me that my credit card had been used....blah, blah, and after about 2 hours it was "all good" again. Got a new credit card and now I don't owe ITUNES the dollar charged to it, nor the $500 phone to Verizon....Funny thing, it was Apple that turned the info over to the credit card company....all for a buck! So that ID theft took pretty quickly to fix! I only wish the gov't could move that swiftly, in ANYTHING.
YouTube - F*CK YOU CBC - NO MICROCHIPS FOR ME THANKS! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T19RvOrnWSY&playnext_from=TL&videos=ujq-l_SOmzw&feature=sub)
Umm so this new chip here will be able to remotely control your body.... Think of the implications of the remote falling into the wrong hands? I'll leave the conclusions to you.
Jude Iam
05-12-2010, 10:38 AM
For many years, I have refused to be stamped to enter clubs or festivals.
I decline with a few words on the invasive nature of stamping and its bad precedent for the mindset of people getting chipped. By offering to have the stamp on a paper or even part of my clothing that's not visible, the club always winds up agreeing - and a few people have now considered stamping/chipping.
A small personal gesture, all I have inclination for in this arena.
Blessings, Judith
I agree with your views on this Scott. If people so desire to implanted with RFID chips, who am I to tell them no? Its their body, and they are free to do what they so choose with it. It may even come in handy for some, especially the elderly with serious health issues.
However, I strongly feel that this will become mandatory in the future, and that is something I am totally against. I feel it to be a complete intrusion into my personal privacy, and an easy way for identity thieves to gain access to all kinds of information that is highly sensitive.
Furthermore, I feel like those commercials and television spots from IBM are attempting to normalize this technology and imply that everyone should get chipped. I personally don't want to live in a society where everyone can be tracked at all times, and peoples stats can be uploaded in a flash. I just don;t feel comfortable being scanned like some product off the supermarket shelf.
Thanks for the cool response Scott. :thumbsup:
LenInSebastopol
05-13-2010, 06:08 AM
I'm getting ready to die. In the late 60's & early 70's that is what I worked on as a stew-dent while at S.F. State!
We had no nefarious motive such as this, but rather to make a belt worn on the skin that would be a transducer
of sound into tactile sensations so the deaf could "hear".
All the while, for practice, putting electrodes into mouse & cat brains to "read" their waves. Ah the good old days of Comparative Mammalian Physiology; anybody need 20 credits in that?
Look, I know that the boogy man is really the gov't and big industry, etc. but we cannot live in fear with your question of "imagine if it fell into the wrong hands" as we would never have left the cave, worked with fire or cross the pond. We all know there are bad guys out there so the fight will never end, however the ability to have the blind see, deaf hear, and all walk or run by far out weighs the fears we engender in ourselves or others. It's not about the cutesy getting in and out of the house or having your grocery's checked out even faster!
<object width="480" height="385">
<embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/T19RvOrnWSY&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>
YouTube - F*CK YOU CBC - NO MICROCHIPS FOR ME THANKS! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T19RvOrnWSY&playnext_from=TL&videos=ujq-l_SOmzw&feature=sub)
Umm so this new chip here will be able to remotely control your body.... Think of the implications of the remote falling into the wrong hands? I'll leave the conclusions to you.
Garden Goddess
05-13-2010, 06:50 AM
Again, this thread is about folks freely choosing. You are onto gov't control & mandated chipping. BTW, the gov't already has many of those controls and that goes without chipping.
With awareness of the nature of the propaganda, people will largely reject the idea. So, the widespread use of a "chip" would be unlikely. The main gist of my point is that, I notice a pattern in the media which is interpreted from my perspective as an attempt to manufacture consent.
This same strategy was used regarding the Patriot Act. After all of those "public opinion polls" in which people were asked to choose one of two beliefs about the legislation, most media entities broadcast a statement that said basically "this is what the people want."
This conveniently ignores the fact that the media told the public one of two polarized opinions were the only choices. I'm just pointing out this pattern.
False premise = flawed result.
Other advertising ploys are at work as well. Even the name "chip" is a cute euphemism chosen on purpose to disguise its nature.
Its just advertising, and advertising does not rely on logic, it relies on engendering an emotion. We all have free will.
LenInSebastopol
05-13-2010, 07:21 AM
Again, this thread is about folks freely choosing. You are onto gov't control & mandated chipping. BTW, the gov't already has many of those controls and that goes without chipping.
With awareness of the nature of the propaganda, people will largely reject the idea. So, the widespread use of a "chip" would be The main gist of my point is that, I notice a pattern in the media which is interpreted from my perspective as an attempt to manufacture consent.
That attempt IS advertisement, not propaganda. I have to laugh when I hear the word "soap" because it is a civilized issue and yet there are 23 bazillion soaps on the market that all do the same thing: create surface tension that is broken by manual manipulation. Some folks have a weak sense of humor, I guess.
This same strategy was used regarding the Patriot Act. After all of those "public opinion polls" in which people were asked to choose one of two beliefs about the legislation, most media entities broadcast a statement that said basically "this is what the people want."
This conveniently ignores the fact that the media told the public one of two polarized opinions were the only choices. I'm just pointing out this pattern.
False premise = flawed result.
I like it! The old "straw man" argument or presentation. It is done with the language as well, and practiced in the "news" from everywhere now.
SWMBO and I were told to watch Mad Men, a TV series so we ordered it via Netflix.....interesting as salacious TV goes, however as a sub plot there is the 'how stuff is sold to America' since it is placed on Madison Avenue in the early 60's. A trip down memory lane! One of the series has the fact that at that period advertisement folks were considered lower than pond scum, yet they were all making crazy money. Fun, in a sick way.
Other advertising ploys are at work as well. Even the name "chip" is a cute euphemism chosen on purpose to disguise its nature.
Its just advertising, and advertising does not rely on logic, it relies on engendering an emotion. We all have free will.
Thank God we have free will, however some are trying to take that away, via technology!
Garden Goddess
05-13-2010, 07:25 AM
Despite my pessimism that we can avoid "the gov't" finding out all about us, it's still a bad thing even if you've never had an evil thought in your life. The information collected about you is notoriously inaccurate, and the bigger the quantity of information the harder it is to correct errors. So whether you realized it or not, your relative anonymity to the government protected you from midnight drug raids. The more times you show up in their data bases, the more likely you'll look 'interesting' to them.
It is now almost impossible to walk out of your front door without breaking a law of some kind. Entities of "Public Safety" want to place as many people as possible on the general radar screen. I agree that the notion of accurate information being generated in this way is false.
The government will still rely on the people to listen to the public service announcements that tell us we need to be afraid of our neighbors and turn them in for various reasons "to help our community."
I believe this tactic is doomed to failure. People are creating local solidarity in their community and helping one another. The more governmental restrictions, hence more bureaucracy the more people begin to rely on each other. (The false belief that the government will help people was fully exposed in the events of Katrina.)
LenInSebastopol
05-14-2010, 07:07 AM
Not only can one break the law by walking outside, try DOING something and find out the regulations that stifle.
And yet folks vote for more folks that want more gov't!
What is it when we keep doing the same actions over again yet expect different results each time?
There is no "false belief" that the gov't will help.
Despite my pessimism that we can avoid "the gov't" finding out all about us, it's still a bad thing even if you've never had an evil thought in your life. The information collected about you is notoriously inaccurate, and the bigger the quantity of information the harder it is to correct errors. So whether you realized it or not, your relative anonymity to the government protected you from midnight drug raids. The more times you show up in their data bases, the more likely you'll look 'interesting' to them.
It is now almost impossible to walk out of your front door without breaking a law of some kind. Entities of "Public Safety" want to place as many people as possible on the general radar screen. I agree that the notion of accurate information being generated in this way is false.
The government will still rely on the people to listen to the public service announcements that tell us we need to be afraid of our neighbors and turn them in for various reasons "to help our community."
I believe this tactic is doomed to failure. People are creating local solidarity in their community and helping one another. The more governmental restrictions, hence more bureaucracy the more people begin to rely on each other. (The false belief that the government will help people was fully exposed in the events of Katrina.)