George W. Bush 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent'

[sharingwisdom]

April 9, 2010, The Times (One of the UK's leading newspapers)
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece (https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece)

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times. The accusations were made by Lawrence Wilkerson, a top aide to Colin Powell, the former Republican Secretary of State, in a signed declaration to support a lawsuit filed by a Guantánamo detainee. He claimed that the former Vice-President and Defence Secretary knew that the majority of the initial 742 detainees sent to Guantánamo in 2002 were innocent but believed that it was “politically impossible to release them”. Colonel Wilkerson, a long-time critic of the Bush Administration’s approach to counter-terrorism and the war in Iraq, claimed that the majority of detainees — children as young as 12 and men as old as 93 — never saw a US soldier when they were captured. He said that many were turned over by Afghans and Pakistanis for up to $5,000. Little or no evidence was produced as to why they had been taken. He also claimed that one reason Mr Cheney and Mr Rumsfeld did not want the innocent detainees released was because “the detention efforts would be revealed as the incredibly confused operation that they were”.

[LenInSebastopol]

Maybe they can make a movie about it? Call it "The Fog of War", no, wait, "The Foggiest of Wars", no....
But of course BushCo probably knew they were innocent prior to their arrest and detention. Evil, evil men! Evil. There hearts, minds, souls are, and were, pure evil. I am glad THIS administration does not further any of BuschCo's stuff.
We will have none of it!

[WeAreLove]

That's about as funny as a million dead Iraqi civilians. And, the fact that Obama is yet another corporate war puppet does not absolve BushCo of their crimes, WTF is wrong with you?


Maybe they can make a movie about it? Call it "The Fog of War", no, wait, "The Foggiest of Wars", no....
But of course BushCo probably knew they were innocent prior to their arrest and detention. Evil, evil men! Evil. There hearts, minds, souls are, and were, pure evil. I am glad THIS administration does not further any of BuschCo's stuff.
We will have none of it!

[LenInSebastopol]

That's about as funny as a million dead Iraqi civilians. And, the fact that Obama is yet another corporate war puppet does not absolve BushCo of their crimes, WTF is wrong with you?

In a ten minute break I could not begin to tell you what is wrong with me!
As V.I. Lenin once quipped, "One man's death is a tragedy, a million is history". Or was it Uncle Joe?
What is funny, to me obviously, is that so many look to their "leaders" and politicians the way others look to saints. In the end they are simply trying to get by with what they know at the time; that is unless you really, really believe BushCo is evil incarnate (and from a theological view a sound argument can be put forth) or simply a bumbling fool that got over on most everybody (but then are they not all?), but the "conspiracy notion" of history and events never ceases to amaze me. So many here want gov't transparency and in a war-type setting that is so ridiculous. So it simply serves the purpose of those with "the other" agenda. But keep on playing the Democrat-good/Republican-bad game. Or at least until this guy has crossed the line.....as if.....gotta get back to meaningful activity or what others call 'work'.

[WeAreLove]

HELLO, where did you see me saying the democrats are 'good'?

Our political system has been hijacked. As Cynthia McKinney said, we only have one party now, the corporate war party. You are as politically naive as the liberals you ridicule here in thinking that there's any significant difference between the two.



keep on playing the Democrat-good/Republican-bad game.

[theindependenteye]

>>>Our political system has been hijacked.

I'm curious to know what period of time you believe our political system worked better than it does now? I think I'm pretty aware of the vileness rampant in this land and in others, but equal absurdities, atrocities, and corruptions loom in my mind when I think of any span of time I'm at all educated in. So it's hard for me to connect with the "worse and worse" scenario that forms the gospel of both Left and Right.

But that said, I'm asking a real question & not intending to debate the answer. When do you think things were better?

Peace & joy—
Conrad

[WeAreLove]

I think the presidential hijacking of 2001 was a watershed event. Even Reagan and Nixon would have been amazed.


>>>Our political system has been hijacked.

I'm curious to know what period of time you believe our political system worked better than it does now? I think I'm pretty aware of the vileness rampant in this land and in others, but equal absurdities, atrocities, and corruptions loom in my mind when I think of any span of time I'm at all educated in. So it's hard for me to connect with the "worse and worse" scenario that forms the gospel of both Left and Right.

But that said, I'm asking a real question & not intending to debate the answer. When do you think things were better?

Peace & joy—
Conrad

[LenInSebastopol]

Well, you have me at a disadvantage as I am not going to go through your posted stuff and look. Seems that way to me, but that is not my thrust.
Our political system is all right, it is simply this party notion that we have but two that have locked up the whole scene, by regulations. And as the scenario has been played out it seems that only both are one, spend & tax and ignore where most people live and feel. I am too tired to articulate more than that at the moment. I do know that George Washington warned against party "systems" and though not clear why, I can see that it has come to a nightmare. I know progressives simply want more gov't faster while tea party folks want the mirror image, or at least that is what the media promulgates. I enjoy thinking 'what if the media is wrong about both' and we simply are Americans.....naw, won't sell newsprint and soap.
BTW, how DID you get that name?


HELLO, where did you see me saying the democrats are 'good'?

Our political system has been hijacked. As Cynthia McKinney said, we only have one party now, the corporate war party. You are as politically naive as the liberals you ridicule here in thinking that there's any significant difference between the two.

[LenInSebastopol]

I think the presidential hijacking of 2001 was a watershed event. Even Reagan and Nixon would have been amazed.

Is that the election that the Supremes had a ruling about? I've read that Bush really won.
I've read the NYT admitted it.
I've read that Snopes declared a Bush victory.
And yet so many on the internet claim he lost per Florida, etc. I wasn't there, I didn't count the ballots nor was at the experiential point of verification; IOW, they all could be lying, and so The Big Lie, told often enough WILL be believed! As we are all too stupid to realize what we don't know, so it will be repeated (repeat, but louder)
What a recipe!
You want to see a disaster, try the Goldwater / Kennedy election. Seems John F won by the number of dead voting in Chicago alone!
All this makes me happy reading about Rome and their system of gov't.

[WeAreLove]

Well, you have me at a disadvantage as I am not going to go through your posted stuff and look. Seems that way to me, but that is not my thrust...

Try just the one you replied to in this very thread. I called Obama a corporate war puppet, your response is that I'm playing the "Democrat-good/Republican-bad" game.

I'm sorry, but you seem very confused. I won't pick on you any more.

[LenInSebastopol]

Try just the one you replied to in this very thread. I called Obama a corporate war puppet, your response is that I'm playing the "Democrat-good/Republican-bad" game.

I'm sorry, but you seem very confused. I won't pick on you any more.

You are right, I am confused. So you agree with me that the Dem/Rep game is a no-winner! I trust you will agree that the Progressive / Tea Party game is as well.
I know I can't take sides of a game of only 'this or that' and you are right, again: seems BO is a 'corporate war puppet', but then I'll have to go through all my posts to see if I called someone a name like 'politically naive', as witnessed just a post or two ago.
I am sorry but I don't believe the words coming out of any candidates mouth and the more charismatic I find them, the more I shun them (part of my confusion issues or simply cognitive dissonance). I know so many thought that he was 'the savior' (not you, I know) but in the end he is just a man, and worse yet, a political one and being of that nature he will say whatever it takes to fulfill his lust for power. I suppose, as an American of the late 20th century, I don't trust him (that JFK thingy really did a number on my 15 year old head) but I believe that now that he knows what I don't, he will do his level best to lead us out of the mess we are into lately. We do not know all the facts, though we act as if, but I am trusting that he does and will discern the right way for my country. And if not then I trust the system, that so many hate, to right itself later somewhat. That is, on a collective basis. It is simply what I can tell myself after working all day and am tired and there is not much one may do, except complain! And I see here that daily practice is fresh and well.
Oh, and thanks for the offer of not bothering me, but I don't care.

[babaruss]

'Love' doesn't ask "what the fuck is wrong with you"...arrogance asks such questions...so either change your name to 'we are arrogant', or start supplying loving responses to other peoples posts
Baba


That's about as funny as a million dead Iraqi civilians. And, the fact that Obama is yet another corporate war puppet does not absolve BushCo of their crimes, WTF is wrong with you?

[WeAreLove]

Your notion of love sounds quite bizarre. Even Jesus expressed his outrage at outrageous conduct. Defending war crimes is outrageous.

We just invaded a country that posed no threat to us and killed a million civilians in the process (according to the Red Cross). Now we have evidence that hundreds of innocent men spent years in Guantánamo so as not to undermine public support for BushCo's invasion of Iraq.

Imagine our oh so arrogant American response if some other country did the same.



'Love' doesn't ask "what the fuck is wrong with you"...arrogance asks such questions...so either change your name to 'we are arrogant', or start supplying loving responses to other peoples posts
Baba

[babaruss]

If you want to quote the heavy hitters of this world then please consider that Buddha said : 'hatred ceases not with hatred'.
More simply put...attacking people is just another form of war mongering behavior... although in a much smaller scale....as in at the level of you.
If you are anti war then start at home by intelligently redirecting your outrage...you don't win points nor demonstrate peace by attacking people.
So we're right back to what I said earlier...your words express arrogance not love.
Baba



Your notion of love sounds quite bizarre. Even Jesus expressed his outrage at outrageous conduct. Defending war crimes is outrageous.

We just invaded a country that posed no threat to us and killed a million civilians in the process (according to the Red Cross). Imagine our oh so arrogant American response if some other country did the same.

[WeAreLove]

If you want to quote the heavy hitters of this world then please consider that Buddha said : 'hatred ceases not with hatred'.
More simply put...attacking people is just another form of war mongering behavior... although in a much smaller scale....as in at the level of you.
If you are anti war then start at home by intelligently redirecting your outrage...you don't win points nor demonstrate peace by attacking people.
So we're right back to what I said earlier...your words express arrogance not love.
Baba

Let's recap this thread to bring you up to speed.

In the first post, we learn that a US Army Colonel and chief of staff to the former republican Secretary of State Colin Powell has presented evidence that Bush and Cheney "covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq" and, that "Colin Powell has backed Colonel Wilkerson’s declaration."

LenInSebastopol's response to this despicable evil is to ridicule the Colonel's statement as a "conspiracy notion".

My response to LenInSebastopol: "WTF is wrong with you?"

Yep. I'll stand pat.

I have nothing but respect (that's a form of love) for the brave Colonel Wilkerson, and I despise LenInSebastopol's arrogant and ignorant response.

I'm not very impressed with your spiritually lazy and vapid contribution either. Frankly, it makes you look morally tone-deaf.

[LenInSebastopol]

Let's recap this thread to bring you up to speed.
In the first post, we learn that a US Army Colonel and chief of staff to the former republican Secretary of State Colin Powell has presented evidence that Bush and Cheney "covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq" and, that "Colin Powell has backed Colonel Wilkerson’s declaration."

LenInSebastopol's response to this despicable evil is to ridicule the Colonel's statement as a "conspiracy notion".
My response to LenInSebastopol: "WTF is wrong with you?"
Yep. I'll stand pat.

Yes, I am sure you will stand pat. No matter what the issue is, your mind has been made up.
OK, from what I gather in your above synopsis BushCo did not have a conspiracy to cover up stuff?
My jibe was missed,so let me explain humor to you, as it appears to be needed. Certain folks, maybe you? find all and every single thing that BushCo did to be totally evil. It is nowhere in their being to consider what was done to have any affect other than evil. To that end I was poking fun. And the humorous part, hold on as it could simply have been ironic, was that they knew all this prior to those 'innocent' men getting arrested and detained simply because they were (are) evil. You see the juxtaposition, that being their precedent BushCo evilness and the sequence of events? Maybe not, as so many find the antecedent of BusCo evil to be foundational to their "cause".
You know that old joke, how many forum users does it take to screw in a light bulb?
I feel am the butt of that joke now!



I have nothing but respect (that's a form of love) for the brave Colonel Wilkerson, and I despise LenInSebastopol's arrogant and ignorant response.
I'm not very impressed with your spiritually lazy and vapid contribution either. Frankly, it makes you look morally tone-deaf.

And you are right, I am arrogant. I am so arrogant as to respond to what you clearly find to be the only correct thinking on the subject matter. I mean that IS the definition of arrogance, to challenge you AND the position that is so right as to defy questioning or a simple and ignorant response to such. And rather than enlighten me to your way of thinking or discuss the matter in an even toned manner, it is easier to fling invectives, especially to the ignorant, such as myself.
Oh, BTW, respect is respect and love is love and though the twain may meet in your world, the fact is the don't overlap in a real setting. They are separate virtues, and even have separate words! One cannot love one does not know, unless it is tied to some bizarre notion of being a Christian. And you are not one of THOSE, are you? No, wait, don't bother to tell me....I'll try not to judge you by your words since we all fall short and it is none of my biz; it's only between you and Yours and, like any fair Buddhist, I try not to interfere wid 'dat.

[babaruss]

Stand pat if you like but my friend you're holding some pretty bad cards.
Taking cheap shots, isn't going to make your hand any better.
Just makes you sound like a drunken cowboy.
Baba


Let's recap this thread to bring you up to speed.

In the first post, we learn that a US Army Colonel and chief of staff to the former republican Secretary of State Colin Powell has presented evidence that Bush and Cheney "covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq" and, that "Colin Powell has backed Colonel Wilkerson’s declaration."

LenInSebastopol's response to this despicable evil is to ridicule the Colonel's statement as a "conspiracy notion".

My response to LenInSebastopol: "WTF is wrong with you?"

Yep. I'll stand pat.

I have nothing but respect (that's a form of love) for the brave Colonel Wilkerson, and I despise LenInSebastopol's arrogant and ignorant response.

I'm not very impressed with your spiritually lazy and vapid contribution either. Frankly, it makes you look morally tone-deaf.

[LenInSebastopol]

I think it's cowgirl.
And you are right, the gender is not important, but 'cowpoke' is a good characteristic of how she presents. She just holds the same views as a New Yorker.
What a country!