Kids and Drugs

[Nomad]

[This thread was split off from https://www.waccobb.net/forums/general-community/65300-drug-dealers-square.html - Barry]

For the mother of the 14 year old, you can thank this post as another way for your daughter to learn where to get some if she so wishes.
Be honest with your daughter. Give her the freedom to come to you if she does try them for help and not be too scared to seek help. And please, explain the major differences of all the drugs instead of lumping them all together because if it IS a gateway drug, it's because if tried and realized they were lied to, why would they believe you about Meth or Heroin? An open and honest relationship with your daughter so that she can trust you to come to for help, and hopefully with a good relationship she won't even want to try them, but if she does and knows you will be understanding and help her, although disappointed of course, I'm not telling you to say go out and do them, I just mean there is a reason kids turn to drugs, and a reason they are too scared to seek help.

[Nomad]

But despite being strongly against current drug laws, I'm also against drug-dealing in public. As long as there's major money to be made, there's likely to be gang involvement at some point, and that means violence. If it's seen, it should be reported. If it's reported and not responded to, then try videotape.

-Conrad

You just made the argument why we all should be against current drug laws. It is the gangs making the money and causing the violence and there would not be that money for them if regulated like alcohol... which, c'mon? We all know alcohol is a dangerous drug if used irresponsibly and if you don't, I am very happy you have never experienced what horrible things alcohol causes people to do to others, wives, children, girlfriends, people they are supposed to love.

[theindependenteye]

>>>You just made the arguement why we all should be against current drug laws. It is the gangs making the money and causing the violence and there would not be that money for them if regulated like alcohol... which, c'mon? We all know alcohol is a dangerous drug if used irresponsibly and if you don't, I am very happy you have never experienced what horrible things alcohol causes people to do to others, wives, children, girlfriends, people they are supposed to love.

Dear Nomad--

I'm totally in agreement about both the absurdity of drug laws and the dangers of alcohol. My dad was an alcoholic, deserted the family when I was two. My wife's mom was an upper-class alcoholic, a sweet, funny woman when she was sober, vilely abusive when she wasn't. To my mind, alcohol is a serious problem that only long-range education can ameliorate.

Drugs, likewise. And I'll include marijuana in that insofar as *anything* in this addiction-prone society can be a danger, from heroin to Bingo. I'd like to see those laws changed, and slowly, hopefully, some of them will. But in the meantime, I have to be in favor of enforcement on the local level, where it involves public spaces. In utopian theory, I would be totally in favor of fucking in public -- after all, it's a beautiful, life-affirming thing, just the right thing for the sunny, grassy Sebastopol squre. But for both better and worse we're a diverse society, and I think a lot of people would have legitimate concerns.

Ah, gotta get back to work.

Peace & joy--
Conrad

[LenInSebastopol]

For the mother of the 14 year old, you can thank this post as another way for your daughter to learn where to get some if she so wishes.

At 14 she already knows where to get drugs no matter where she goes.



Be honest with your daughter. Give her the freedom to come to you if she does try them for help and not be too scared to seek help.

What does "give her the freedom" mean if she don't know by now? At 14 the girl has the freedom to do whatever she wants, without the permission of mom who will not give her the "freedom" to do dope or not! And if she doesn't then she's not going to mom for help until she's skanked out.



And please, explain the major differences of all the drugs instead of lumping them all together because if it IS a gateway drug, it's because if tried and realized they were lied to, why would they believe you about Meth or Heroin?

It's not the "gateway" drug issue, it's the CREEPS that are giving/selling/hustling to her young stuff and THEIR access to all the other dope and that "loco vida" that goes with it.
As for "believing" about the evils of meth and stuff, if she has eyes in her head she will see those dead pan faces and how they light up only for their "drug of choice". That, plus the formal education in her school may help a bit.


An open and honest relationship with your daughter so that she can trust you to come to for help, and hopefully with a good relationship she won't even want to try them, but if she does and knows you will be understanding and help her, although disappointed of course, I'm not telling you to say go out and do them, I just mean there is a reason kids turn to drugs, and a reason they are too scared to seek help.

FINALLY we agree on that. But if mom did her "homework" and started with that kind of relationship (never to late to start anyway, but it just avoids the rush) early on then a lot of that drama is avoided. Those down town doing that stuff are our 'throw away' kids. Sad but true as all around us "pursue" our "own thing" and "develop our true selves". Narcissism rules!

[someguy]

This is how I see the issue: Yes, most of us used to partake in some sort of illegal activity when we were young. Some learned from our mistakes, some not. But the difference that I see between then and now is that I didn't have a bunch of old guys from the shelter on Main St. coming into my little party and being a part of my scene. I see those guys on a daily basis in the huddle with the kids, all hands out for whatever their passing around.
I love the local teenagers that come and meet at the square. I truly do. They are so open and alive. Its for all of us. But the kids I was speaking of, most have backpacks with sleeping bags and they all look miserable. I don't think I've seem one of them in that group ever smile or look happy. Yesterday, their were little kids playing around them and as they were smoking and saying F--- you loudly, a Mom said watch your mouth and they said, I can't believe she f------ said that to us.
And yes, I have a personal reason to be involved. I know the pain that a teen goes through because of a full blown addiction. My son has been in rehab twice, jail 3 times, lived on the streets, been down so low and hard, I never thought he'd rise again. But he did. And the only way it could have happened was when he got busted and the courts sent him away and then to rehab.
So don't judge too harshly when it comes to this issue. Open your eyes and really look the next time your there. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Drug abuse is almost always a symptom of another problem. It's rare for someone with a happy, satisfying life to fall into addictions of any sort. So when a person abuses drugs, it is generally to escape from some kind of deep pain or trauma or abuse, or just dissatisfaction with the way their lives are going. I think the real question we should be asking ourselves is, "What kind of a society allows its children to be homeless and miserable, dealing drugs on the street to survive?" It is disturbing to me that so many people want to just call the police, as though that would solve the real problem. Sure, maybe the business owners on the square wouldn't have to see it anymore, but that doesn't mean the drug dealing would disappear. It would simply change venues, because homeless people have to find some way to get by, and addicted people will always find a way to get their drugs.

So the real problem is that people are miserable, period. Our society is organized in such a way that many people are forced into jobs that they despise in order to make enough money to survive. Many take the frustration out on their families. People get married or have children without truly considering what it entails. Many have expectations of what their children will be like or what their married life will be like, and have trouble hiding their disappointment when the reality turns out different. Lots of parents push their children to be one thing or another, without considering how the child might feel about it. At the same time, parents often don't want to spend the time to actually raise their children themselves. They ignore their children when they need attention and guidance, instead bribing them with candy and sugar (which itself is an addictive substance). It used to be the role of the parents to teach children about life, to explain about the world, to give them the skills they need to be a successful adult. Now parents would rather dump this responsibility on the schools (which do an unbelievably pathetic job, by the way). I think part of the problem is that adults are very confused about life themselves, and its hard to explain to our children why our world is so messed up. It makes us uncomfortable to think about it, and we would just rather not.

Children are incredibly open and alive, thats why most people love them and want to have children of their own. But then we are at a loss as to why our children are so miserable when they grow up. I think that when kids get to be teenagers, they are beginning to understand that their openness and aliveness is not wanted in our society. We might say we want it, but really we discourage it at practically every opportunity. And it makes them feel deeply angry and hurt, and so they do what they can to rebel against their parents and this society that doesn't want them for their true selves.

My theory is that the openness and aliveness of teenagers serves as a constant reminder of our own lack of openness and aliveness, and we would rather not be reminded. We would rather mold them into little adults, socially acceptable, dull and polite, not asking too many questions, or saying anything too controversial, or doing anything that might embarrass us. And if all of that still fails, we call the police.

[Nomad]

What does "give her the freedom" mean if she don't know by now? At 14 the girl has the freedom to do whatever she wants, without the permission of mom who will not give her the "freedom" to do dope or not! And if she doesn't then she's not going to mom for help until she's skanked out."

I'm sorry, very confused... do you mean she has freedom because you cannot control her or that you just let her do whatever she wants, except drugs? I don't understand the word skanked either, I thought skank meant slut. And I am confused if you give her freedom to do what she wants how that doesn't contradict not giving permission. When I was her age there were kids in my school who's parents could care less, then there were strict ones like mine who smelled my breath every night I came home, and then there were the ones that said, (small town, no real drug problem except alcohol, which is a drug) that they knew they were going to do it anyways so why not try to keep them safe, and senior year would allow them to have small parties and take the kids car keys. Guess out of those three the percentage of highly productive adults they have become. The third. I went "crazy" as soon as I was liberated, the ones who'd been drinking since 12 are living in poverty, while the others are Doctors, Pharmacists and other such professions. I was addicted to alcohol, drunk except if at work, until 27. My excuse, Mom always said alcoholism ran in the family so I couldn't help it. Older and wiser fortunately.

I guess the first are what you call the "throw a way" kids and my heart hurts badly for them. A lot of throw a ways I grew up with were deep down really kind souls, but it is absolutely destructive to an emotional teenager, remember how everything seemed so important, and this is important, to not have the love of your own parents. I think if there is a movement it should be to reach out to these kids, maybe start some kind of work program where they can make money legally, I don't know, something to help.

I forget how isolated as a kid I was. I didn't even know what crank or speed or whatever they called it then... still have never even seen crack, and until 27 did not know the history of discrimination against cannabis or even that there was a male or female so sure, she probably knows already. I wouldn't have and honestly, if you are anywhere near as strict as mine, I doubt even growing up here I would have! So I do not understand or know your situation.

How about this? You tell her why you would be very angry and disappointed if she tries drugs but even if she makes that mistake you will always love her and be there for her to fight it. Better?

Peace and Love

[shemdiza]

I spent some time observing these kids over the last couple of days and I have read here and there the various replies made by the supposed "elders" of this community. I am actually shocked by the surface, somewhat passive, ignorant remarks made. So as not so much an elder myself, but someone who knows a thing or two I would like to take this time to stand up for or mnt2ocean because as far as I can tell we still do live in a place on the planet where "community" still means something. (although after reading some of the things posted I worry this is becoming less true.)

I know alot of you are West County 40-50 somethings who browse Wacco, feeling all "conscious" and progressive and righteously politically active. I know you grew up in the 60's and 70's where there was some free love, some free drugs, and maybe even some free thought (again doubting this after reading the posts). I know you had babies, and probably like alot of parents who had children during this time wanted to raise them to be independent and strong and conscious themselves....Set them off on a path that was different than how you might had been raised.
Maybe you still took a pill here, smoked your herb there, did a line or two just like the old days. But the fact is when your wern't looking your kids saw all of this and probably thought "There's my dad/mom checking out again." But then Nancy Regan spoke up and said "No!" to you for doing all that drug stuff......and then you started to get pissed. Get pissed that you were being told not to smoke your herb and take your pills. That you were still a 70's kid inside and you would do it if you wanted. The only thing is: Your kids grew up and started stealing your drugs and selling them down at the square. And honestly I think thats why your pissed now. And I think deeper down you're sad because like one guy said "You created this world they are in" and you feel like you can't do a thing about it and most likely you don't want to because if you did, then you couldn't sit home on Wacco talking smack instead and pouting about the unfairness of it all and that pot should be legal and all that. Sometimes we just got to put down our bong and read between the lines brother......I know it's hard but we can't let our kids slip bewteen the lines.
I say........look at the children in the square and ask yourself if they are one of your kids and if you are responsible for them. You will have to say yes, because we as the older people of this community are all responsible for them. We are here to guide them away from our mistakes from our thinking that those pills are some answer to the question. And the question is most likely why does no one care?? Those kids there are searching for something that clearly is not in those drugs and you know it.......If you just go watch it all for awhile like mnt2ocean said.
So, if you choose to stand for anything stand FOR them, stand IN FRONTof them and not with them at the moment because the need their ELDERS to show them we do care, that we can help guide them back to their selves where they really want to be like we all do.
I hope that you can realize that mtn2ocean does care.....at least that is what I hear. That it may have taken a personal story for him/her to care...........but honestly if we can't relate or feel any compassion or even be affected by someone else's pain and truth then for sure our community will fall to the wayside. I think it's time to listen deeper and stand for one another.
Thanks for your time.



You might have wanted to

Am I the only one who has noticed the teenagers in the square of Sebastopol dealing drugs on a daily basis?

They are getting bolder by the day and I'm so angry that nothing is being done. I'm a business owner nearby who has watched the daily deals out in broad daylight with little kids and parents playing nearby, everyone seemingly oblivious to the fact that these people are handing out drugs, people! I've called the police 3 times and they take their time getting over to the square, even though their 1 minute away. I've stared down the kids as their handing out the pills in a huddle but it dosen't seem to make a dent in their thick skulls. I want to start yelling.........Hey, drugs are being handed out here! as there doing it but I'm nervous about vandalism to my business. They know who I am already.

So what do you say Sebastopol? Are we going to let these brats take the square away from us? It dosen't feel safe and I know you know what I'm talking about if you have spent any time there as of late.

Let's take back the square, in a peaceful way. It's always been so sweet and I hate to see it go to pot......no pun intended..........

["Mad" Miles]

Shemdiza,

I just read your post. I was right there with you in the first paragraph. Then in the main body you go on a tear and start judging, predicting and claiming knowledge of the attitudes and motivations of boomers. Unless you're clairvoyant, I just don't know how you would know that about "us".

I am fifty-three years old. I've been poor and dependent on others, but due to the luck of having very tolerant and loving parents, never homeless. Never married (No romance without finance!). Never had or raised children. I have been a school teacher over the years, credentialed since 2004. I am a participant observer in our society and have made sincere and labor intensive efforts to improve it. With a few brief exceptions I've never been paid to be an activist.

The problems of cast-off, neglected adolescents in our society stem from a wide array of other social problems and injustices. It's not just about how their parents and other adults treated them. People have been cast aside in our culture for hundreds of years, if not longer. I won't list all of the causes, but it's not as simple as you make it.

At the end of your post you call for action, for adults to give their attention, time and listening skills to these young people. I find that admirable, but kind of vague.

What specific, concrete actions do you think we should take, that are not already being done? I really want to know.

I've focused on systemic problems and solutions in my life. Because that's what my education and reason led me to think was the best chance for real positive social change. I avoided committing myself to what I saw as "bandaid" responses such as charity, social work, teaching, counseling, feeding the homeless, etc.. But having taught in public schools and in prison, I've now also done just that.

There's always more that should and can be done. But until the root causes of neglect and other forms of suffering are addressed, I'm sad to say, there are going to be wandering, mendicant, self-medicating, and yes, sometimes criminal, people of all ages, hanging out in public places and "doing their thing."

In the case of some of them, they'll insist that it's the best option available to them. Maybe they're in denial, maybe they have an intimate understanding of how this society works and they refuse to be exploited or to exploit others. Maybe it's a combination of both, and more!

Thank you for your passion, but blaming isn't persuasive, and unclear calls for action leave lots of room for confusion and passivity.

Don't let me discourage you. Trying to do the best you can do is all anyone can expect of others and themselves. And everybody deserves respect, love, a good preparation for adult life, and the opportunity to work for themselves, their loved ones and their entire society to be safe, comfortable, even happy.

But we live in a social system that depends on division, exploitation, selfishness and the acceptance of brutalization of others. The new post about the court decision that Taser stunning of a woman, seven months pregnant, is legally justified! That is a graphic example of social acceptance of brutality.

As times get tougher the only thing most people will have is each other. Banding together for mutual aid, and simple survival, is going to become more and more necessary just to get by. Just as it was in the past. One of the problems facing the homeless and otherwise neglected is that our culture and society emphasizes the individual over the collective. That makes the kind of solidarity I'm talking about even harder to carry out.

This is a huge subject, and I made a promise to myself today to try to be succinct. As usual I've fallen short, rather, long.

[LenInSebastopol]

[/i]
I'm sorry, very confused... do you mean she has freedom because you cannot control her or that you just let her do whatever she wants, except drugs? I don't understand the word skanked either, I thought skank meant slut. And I am confused if you give her freedom to do what she wants how that doesn't contradict not giving permission.

She has more freedom than a five year old, 10 year old, 12 year old....And she may do MORE of whatever she wants, my control or not. Of course no parent wants poor choices and will TRY to control the issues, but as they get older we realize that we lose such control while it morphs into 'influence'. She takes more freedom, as it is part of the 'growing process' and wrestles with ideas of license, responsibility, and consequences. What part is not clear? If she wants to do drugs, sex or rock 'n roll, how can I stop her/him? Locked room? Become a cop? No, she will do what she can/wants when not around her responsible parental-type units. Not difficult to understand.
Skank? Expand the definition unless you think sluts are cool. How about the noun form meaning a person that will do anything for money with no personal issues of consequences or repugnance? An amoral person capable of "learning social rules" and ignores them for personal pleasure or gain. The adjective could then mean one who has lived such a life for years and has bottomed out with no hope, friends, resources or means to recover with no where to turn, and looks as poorly as the situation one finds themselves in as such.



I guess the first are what you call the "throw a way" kids and my heart hurts badly for them. A lot of throw a ways I grew up with were deep down really kind souls, but it is absolutely destructive to an emotional teenager, remember how everything seemed so important, and this is important, to not have the love of your own parents. I think if there is a movement it should be to reach out to these kids, maybe start some kind of work program where they can make money legally, I don't know, something to help.

There are places that try to do so; they are expensive and require much. There are places that are cheap and they require everything, but because they are derided, scoffed at and clowned, churches are not held to be such places....so years may go by without a chance. Those places are made for the 'throw aways' no matter what age....but ....they go unused far and wide...some within walking distance of the square.




How about this? You tell her why you would be very angry and disappointed if she tries drugs but even if she makes that mistake you will always love her and be there for her to fight it. Better?
Peace and Love

My kids never tried drugs nor drink and we rarely talked about it. Seems they already knew there's enough in the world without having to booze or lose on any of that stuff. Don't know why it happened so but they just shunned that whole Analy drug/booze thing and did their own. Listening a lot was part of the answer and talking a little, but mostly listening....and it mostly goes to The One Who Shares My Name, as being just a guy I am all that and not a full bag of chips, like most guys.

[LenInSebastopol]

Nail me, why don't cha? Thanks for putting it straight but there is a problem or two; we are not a community. We talk that talk but it is so twisted as a people we cannot even become a community. A community is a group of individuals that have power to effect change within the group and we've given ours to lawyers, courts, cops, and the like. A community has defined roles that people assume and we've none. A community is made of men willing to sacrifice for the greater good and women willing to nurture in a manner greater than their selves. We've none of that which I see. A community responds to issues where consequences can be directly observed by the committed parties and all others....we isolate and remove in this culture and there are no consequences that have any value for a human being to learn by, except self interests.
My daughter is in Alaska living with the Yu'Pics writing and talking about their way of life....we are not a community but simply a group of individuals, mostly living in fear per PC issues, transacting business in the same area.
Yeah, many of us WOULD like to be responsible for them, but must do so under 'rules' that negate positive change. Oh, but I can hear it now...."you want to thump them" etc.....well, there may be an element of truth for a few of those fine fellows, but the great Mother That Runs The PC Things and her minions will not allow that, nor what follows that afterwards. And being the selfish bastard that I am and not wishing to incur endless legal and personal actions, I go and do what I can with those that I've developed relationships with, on a personal level. Only so many clock cycles in a day. But post again the truth and right on for doing so!


I spent some time observing these kids over the last couple of days and I have read here and there the various replies made by the supposed "elders" of this community. I am actually shocked by the surface, somewhat passive, ignorant remarks made. So as not so much an elder myself, but someone who knows a thing or two I would like to take this time to stand up for or mnt2ocean because as far as I can tell we still do live in a place on the planet where "community" still means something. (although after reading some of the things posted I worry this is becoming less true.)
I say........look at the children in the square and ask yourself if they are one of your kids and if you are responsible for them. You will have to say yes, because we as the older people of this community are all responsible for them. We are here to guide them away from our mistakes from our thinking that those pills are some answer to the question. And the question is most likely why does no one care?? Those kids there are searching for something that clearly is not in those drugs and you know it.......If you just go watch it all for awhile like mnt2ocean said.
So, if you choose to stand for anything stand FOR them, stand IN FRONTof them and not with them at the moment because the need their ELDERS to show them we do care, that we can help guide them back to their selves where they really want to be like we all do.
I hope that you can realize that mtn2ocean does care.....at least that is what I hear. That it may have taken a personal story for him/her to care...........but honestly if we can't relate or feel any compassion or even be affected by someone else's pain and truth then for sure our community will fall to the wayside. I think it's time to listen deeper and stand for one another.
Thanks for your time. You might have wanted to

[shemdiza]

Thanks for your response "Mad". Of course I used a very general demographic for my post. (Well, not of course but know that in this case it felt reasonable.) It just felt like an angle that most might relate to either as a parent, or as being one of the kids in the square.
I heard your struggle and I appreciate what you spoke to and I understand the challenges that stem from this frustration of teaching the children well. I also know the feeling of either fighting the good fight or throwing in the towel. May we always be bold enough within ourselves to stand for what we think is true and for the good of all, and especially for those who don't feel they have the voice or power to do so themselves.


Shemdiza,

I just read your post. I was right there with you in the first paragraph. Then in the main body you go on a tear and start judging, predicting and claiming knowledge of the attitudes and motivations of boomers. Unless you're clairvoyant, I just don't know how you would know that about "us".

I am fifty-three years old. I've been poor and dependent on others, but due to the luck of having very tolerant and loving parents, never homeless. Never married (No romance without finance!). Never had or raised children. I have been a school teacher over the years, credentialed since 2004. I am a participant observer in our society and have made sincere and labor intensive efforts to improve it. With a few brief exceptions I've never been paid to be an activist.

The problems of cast-off, neglected adolescents in our society stem from a wide array of other social problems and injustices. It's not just about how their parents and other adults treated them. People have been cast aside in our culture for hundreds of years, if not longer. I won't list all of the causes, but it's not as simple as you make it.

At the end of your post you call for action, for adults to give their attention, time and listening skills to these young people. I find that admirable, but kind of vague.

What specific, concrete actions do you think we should take, that are not already being done? I really want to know.

I've focused on systemic problems and solutions in my life. Because that's what my education and reason led me to think was the best chance for real positive social change. I avoided committing myself to what I saw as "bandaid" responses such as charity, social work, teaching, counseling, feeding the homeless, etc.. But having taught in public schools and in prison, I've now also done just that.

There's always more that should and can be done. But until the root causes of neglect and other forms of suffering are addressed, I'm sad to say, there are going to be wandering, mendicant, self-medicating, and yes, sometimes criminal, people of all ages, hanging out in public places and "doing their thing."

In the case of some of them, they'll insist that it's the best option available to them. Maybe they're in denial, maybe they have an intimate understanding of how this society works and they refuse to be exploited or to exploit others. Maybe it's a combination of both, and more!

Thank you for your passion, but blaming isn't persuasive, and unclear calls for action leave lots of room for confusion and passivity.

Don't let me discourage you. Trying to do the best you can do is all anyone can expect of others and themselves. And everybody deserves respect, love, a good preparation for adult life, and the opportunity to work for themselves, their loved ones and their entire society to be safe, comfortable, even happy.

But we live in a social system that depends on division, exploitation, selfishness and the acceptance of brutalization of others. The new post about the court decision that Taser stunning of a woman, seven months pregnant. is a graphic example of the latter.

As times get tougher the only thing most people will have is each other. Banding together for mutual aid, and simple survival, is going to become more and more necessary just to get by. Just as it was in the past. One of the problems facing the homeless and otherwise neglected is that our culture and society emphasizes the individual over the collective. That makes the kind of solidarity I'm talking about even harder to carry out.

This is a huge subject, and I made a promise to myself today to try to be succinct. As usual I've fallen short, rather, long.

[Nomad]

Expand the definition unless you think sluts are cool.

"Sluts" can do what they want, it is none of my business. I have only heard the word used when someone calls another a "skank".... never used it or bothered to ask.

There are places that are cheap and they require everything, but because they are derided, scoffed at and clowned, churches are not held to be such places....so years may go by without a chance. Those places are made for the 'throw aways' no matter what age....but ....they go unused far and wide...some within walking distance of the square.

I so have to disagree with you. Religion? Are you serious? More people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else. It was formed as a means to control the masses. I am sorry if you believe the fairy tales but strings come along with help from them. You have to love Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior, do everything they say without question, or their help disapears. A great example is missionaries. "Would you like something to eat? OK. You have to love Jesus and follow Our religion not yours" It was the very excuse used to conquer land and destroy civiilizations, the Native Americans are a great example of this. I'm sorry you have not come to terms with this truth, but I cannot help. I've known it was B.S. since a little kid watching all the hypocripsy of my very very religious, catholic family and the other members of my church, who actually gives thier 10% tithing and pray for me every Sunay that I won't go to hell for not being there. It is called brainwashing.

And if your kids have never tried drugs, why in the world did you say, I have a 14 year old, let's stop this??? What are you worried about. I'm glad you are not a cop and allow freedoms but that is just not true of everyone. My parents knew where/what/ and why I was doing every second of the day. I could not close the door to my room or bathroom because that meant I must be doing something wrong. They came into my room every night to make sure I had not snuck out. They third degreed me constantly, so yes, it can be done, I just do not advise it!

This sums up my church point, never truer words were spoken... if the Vatican actually cared about the poor, they have enough money to do it many times over

YouTube - Sell The Vatican, Feed The World (HD, Official) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bObItmxAGc)

And this says it all much better than I

YouTube - Best of Bill Maher on Religion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmUvhKr9SPk)

I was not trying to start a fight, I thought my experience would be helpful but I have no respect for "chuch folk"




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[AllorrahBe]

Someguy, I believe you're onto something here!

But I wonder if your second sentence is true: It's rare for someone with a happy, satisfying life to fall into addictions of any sort. If the rest of what you say is true, where might one find "a happy, satisfying life" without some sort of program?

Personally, I found it through hypnotherapy but lost a lot of time, and life and joy before I found it. ("It's never too late to have a happy childhood.")

Happy Days,
Rev. Allorrah Be
Clinical and Alchemical Hypnotherapist and BodyWorker
[email protected]
:heart:




Drug abuse is almost always a symptom of another problem. It's rare for someone with a happy, satisfying life to fall into addictions of any sort. So when a person abuses drugs, it is generally to escape from some kind of deep pain or trauma or abuse, or just dissatisfaction with the way their lives are going. I think the real question we should be asking ourselves is, "What kind of a society allows its children to be homeless and miserable, dealing drugs on the street to survive?" It is disturbing to me that so many people want to just call the police, as though that would solve the real problem. Sure, maybe the business owners on the square wouldn't have to see it anymore, but that doesn't mean the drug dealing would disappear. It would simply change venues, because homeless people have to find some way to get by, and addicted people will always find a way to get their drugs.

So the real problem is that people are miserable, period. Our society is organized in such a way that many people are forced into jobs that they despise in order to make enough money to survive. Many take the frustration out on their families. People get married or have children without truly considering what it entails. Many have expectations of what their children will be like or what their married life will be like, and have trouble hiding their disappointment when the reality turns out different. Lots of parents push their children to be one thing or another, without considering how the child might feel about it. At the same time, parents often don't want to spend the time to actually raise their children themselves. They ignore their children when they need attention and guidance, instead bribing them with candy and sugar (which itself is an addictive substance). It used to be the role of the parents to teach children about life, to explain about the world, to give them the skills they need to be a successful adult. Now parents would rather dump this responsibility on the schools (which do an unbelievably pathetic job, by the way). I think part of the problem is that adults are very confused about life themselves, and its hard to explain to our children why our world is so messed up. It makes us uncomfortable to think about it, and we would just rather not.

Children are incredibly open and alive, thats why most people love them and want to have children of their own. But then we are at a loss as to why our children are so miserable when they grow up. I think that when kids get to be teenagers, they are beginning to understand that their openness and aliveness is not wanted in our society. We might say we want it, but really we discourage it at practically every opportunity. And it makes them feel deeply angry and hurt, and so they do what they can to rebel against their parents and this society that doesn't want them for their true selves.

My theory is that the openness and aliveness of teenagers serves as a constant reminder of our own lack of openness and aliveness, and we would rather not be reminded. We would rather mold them into little adults, socially acceptable, dull and polite, not asking too many questions, or saying anything too controversial, or doing anything that might embarrass us. And if all of that still fails, we call the police.