someguy
02-05-2010, 09:19 AM
YouTube - Chris Hedges: "We Live in a Time of Radical Evil!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0SYCJ7RzNk)
View Full Version : We live in a time of radical evil
Clancy
02-05-2010, 10:42 AM
A gripping and articulate analysis of the delusion most of America is currently suffering.
YouTube - Chris Hedges: "We Live in a Time of Radical Evil!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0SYCJ7RzNk)
YouTube - Chris Hedges: "We Live in a Time of Radical Evil!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0SYCJ7RzNk)
someguy
02-05-2010, 03:08 PM
A gripping and articulate analysis of the delusion most of America is currently suffering.
Unfortunately, it seems like you and I are the only ones able to see that here on Waccobb. I wonder if there is a way to reach our fellow Waccos and get them to come to their senses about our current situation? Any thoughts or suggestions Clancy?
Unfortunately, it seems like you and I are the only ones able to see that here on Waccobb. I wonder if there is a way to reach our fellow Waccos and get them to come to their senses about our current situation? Any thoughts or suggestions Clancy?
LenInSebastopol
02-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Sorry, I guess you are the only ones that see or understand what the good fellow is talking about. If the media is he message, then his high pitch, unnaturally given, rhetorical language and speech is lost on me. I often joke that I don't speak your language (in most things) and in this case I am not being disingenuous. Sounded like a drone, only at higher frequency. I only got the sense he wished to rally but towards what I could not understand. I felt harangued and the signal to noise ration was way to high for me to hear the message. And I listened to him twice!
LenInSebastopol
02-05-2010, 06:01 PM
That's odd, he seems unusually plain speaking and articulate to me. Perhaps you don't like the message.
It is odd. I am not so lucky I suppose. I can't even understand the message. Just a buzz. If I could get it in small bits maybe I would understand a bit better?
It is odd. I am not so lucky I suppose. I can't even understand the message. Just a buzz. If I could get it in small bits maybe I would understand a bit better?
LenInSebastopol
02-05-2010, 06:57 PM
At the loving direction of one here I listened in small doses (thanks WEARELOVE) and found out he's reading Thoreau and a 1K guys not paying taxes. Outrageous! Back in his day taxes were a whole different thingy, weren't they? And the gov't was not only smaller, but less capable of finding some guy by a pond.
Then the speaker goes on positing that the "war" we are in is "criminal" by some Neurenberg Principal, of which not even my miserable understanding can comprehend the vastness. I suppose it is the 3rd Principal, among the many and their derivatives, but he never states which.
The part that turned me OFF, and I would think anyone listening would become incensed, was this fellow has taken the liberty of informing that everybody's that does not agree with his statements has forfeited their rights as citizens! No wonder I can't listen! I don't know, or care who he is but this talk IS nonsense. Does that person think he can say such a thing and not be told off? Challenged, or even BOOED? Those listening should have shouted back, but it seems he was encouraged!
I'm going to go have a life. This IS a waste of my time and if you don't agree, does that make you not a citizen or worse? Gadz.......we do get what we ask for, I fear.
Then the speaker goes on positing that the "war" we are in is "criminal" by some Neurenberg Principal, of which not even my miserable understanding can comprehend the vastness. I suppose it is the 3rd Principal, among the many and their derivatives, but he never states which.
The part that turned me OFF, and I would think anyone listening would become incensed, was this fellow has taken the liberty of informing that everybody's that does not agree with his statements has forfeited their rights as citizens! No wonder I can't listen! I don't know, or care who he is but this talk IS nonsense. Does that person think he can say such a thing and not be told off? Challenged, or even BOOED? Those listening should have shouted back, but it seems he was encouraged!
I'm going to go have a life. This IS a waste of my time and if you don't agree, does that make you not a citizen or worse? Gadz.......we do get what we ask for, I fear.
someguy
02-05-2010, 08:51 PM
At the loving direction of one here I listened in small doses (thanks WEARELOVE) and found out he's reading Thoreau and a 1K guys not paying taxes. Outrageous! Back in his day taxes were a whole different thingy, weren't they? And the gov't was not only smaller, but less capable of finding some guy by a pond.
Then the speaker goes on positing that the "war" we are in is "criminal" by some Neurenberg Principal, of which not even my miserable understanding can comprehend the vastness. I suppose it is the 3rd Principal, among the many and their derivatives, but he never states which.
The part that turned me OFF, and I would think anyone listening would become incensed, was this fellow has taken the liberty of informing that everybody's that does not agree with his statements has forfeited their rights as citizens! No wonder I can't listen! I don't know, or care who he is but this talk IS nonsense. Does that person think he can say such a thing and not be told off? Challenged, or even BOOED? Those listening should have shouted back, but it seems he was encouraged!
I'm going to go have a life. This IS a waste of my time and if you don't agree, does that make you not a citizen or worse? Gadz.......we do get what we ask for, I fear.
He did not say that if you don't agree with him you are forfeiting your rights as citizens. He said those that concede that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are criminal wars of aggression yet continue to support the current democratic administration have forfeited their rights as citizens.
While this may sound dramatic, I have to agree with him, that those who let their government go unaccountable for criminal acts against humanity have indeed forfeited their rights as free citizens of our country. Indeed the democratic base in general has not only let the current administration go unaccountable for these heinous crimes, they continue to enthusiastically support Obama and his agenda.
I think you missed the point at the beginning about Thoreau. Hedges was trying to highlight the effectiveness of civil disobedience through this tax evasion example. Essentially he was calling for non violent civil disobedience to combat the violence of our government. His point was that paying taxes is a much more violent act than not paying taxes because most of your tax dollars are going to fund these wars that I (and Hedges) believe to be criminal and downright evil.
Then the speaker goes on positing that the "war" we are in is "criminal" by some Neurenberg Principal, of which not even my miserable understanding can comprehend the vastness. I suppose it is the 3rd Principal, among the many and their derivatives, but he never states which.
The part that turned me OFF, and I would think anyone listening would become incensed, was this fellow has taken the liberty of informing that everybody's that does not agree with his statements has forfeited their rights as citizens! No wonder I can't listen! I don't know, or care who he is but this talk IS nonsense. Does that person think he can say such a thing and not be told off? Challenged, or even BOOED? Those listening should have shouted back, but it seems he was encouraged!
I'm going to go have a life. This IS a waste of my time and if you don't agree, does that make you not a citizen or worse? Gadz.......we do get what we ask for, I fear.
He did not say that if you don't agree with him you are forfeiting your rights as citizens. He said those that concede that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are criminal wars of aggression yet continue to support the current democratic administration have forfeited their rights as citizens.
While this may sound dramatic, I have to agree with him, that those who let their government go unaccountable for criminal acts against humanity have indeed forfeited their rights as free citizens of our country. Indeed the democratic base in general has not only let the current administration go unaccountable for these heinous crimes, they continue to enthusiastically support Obama and his agenda.
I think you missed the point at the beginning about Thoreau. Hedges was trying to highlight the effectiveness of civil disobedience through this tax evasion example. Essentially he was calling for non violent civil disobedience to combat the violence of our government. His point was that paying taxes is a much more violent act than not paying taxes because most of your tax dollars are going to fund these wars that I (and Hedges) believe to be criminal and downright evil.
Tars
02-05-2010, 09:19 PM
I agree with your comments Len, about Mr. Hedge's speaking style - very hard to listen to. He should win the Guinness Book Record for run-on sentences. Perhaps if he'd make a text version of the speech available, the wading would be easier.
Bad speaking style and all though, some of what he said resonated with me, far more than it would have even 6 months ago. With the military escalation in Afghanistan, healthcare reform failure, and then the Supreme Court enabling Corporations to finance elections without limits, I'm struggling to keep my residual faith in our current societal system.
I now share Mr. Hedge's fear that the U.S. is rushing ever faster towards the Fascist merging of Government and Corporations.
Each person acts in their own way. I find myself now, more and more, changing how I react to the world. For starters I conceal my life from the government as much as reasonably possible. I'm trying to avoid purchasing from the big corporations wherever whenever I can. Small things I know. I'm sure more kinds if peaceful ways to resist will make themselves evident.
I find hope in the (so far) unregulated growth of the internet. If we can maintain ways to communicate easily, and safely, Fascism can't win.
Bad speaking style and all though, some of what he said resonated with me, far more than it would have even 6 months ago. With the military escalation in Afghanistan, healthcare reform failure, and then the Supreme Court enabling Corporations to finance elections without limits, I'm struggling to keep my residual faith in our current societal system.
I now share Mr. Hedge's fear that the U.S. is rushing ever faster towards the Fascist merging of Government and Corporations.
Each person acts in their own way. I find myself now, more and more, changing how I react to the world. For starters I conceal my life from the government as much as reasonably possible. I'm trying to avoid purchasing from the big corporations wherever whenever I can. Small things I know. I'm sure more kinds if peaceful ways to resist will make themselves evident.
I find hope in the (so far) unregulated growth of the internet. If we can maintain ways to communicate easily, and safely, Fascism can't win.
LenInSebastopol
02-06-2010, 07:01 AM
I find hope in the (so far) unregulated growth of the internet. If we can maintain ways to communicate easily, and safely, Fascism can't win.
It won't win, as the flavor of freedom is to rich, but it can take over for a while; I fear as well.
It won't win, as the flavor of freedom is to rich, but it can take over for a while; I fear as well.
LenInSebastopol
02-06-2010, 07:10 AM
He did not say that if you don't agree with him you are forfeiting your rights as citizens. He said those that concede that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are criminal wars of aggression yet continue to support the current democratic administration have forfeited their rights as citizens. While this may sound dramatic, I have to agree with him, that those who let their government go unaccountable for criminal acts against humanity have indeed forfeited their rights as free citizens of our country. Indeed the democratic base in general has not only let the current administration go unaccountable for these heinous crimes, they continue to enthusiastically support Obama and his agenda.
Criminals do not forfeit their rights!
Who IN HELL is anyone to forfeit the rights of another? The person that tells me that needs a good beating! And I am a non-violent person, or so I thought until I run into this crap! And that is what it is! We may disagree about this and that and that is all fine and dandy but when another tells me OR ANYONE that they are not citizens, then it is ON!
I think you missed the point at the beginning about Thoreau. Hedges was trying to highlight the effectiveness of civil disobedience through this tax evasion example. Essentially he was calling for non violent civil disobedience to combat the violence of our government. His point was that paying taxes is a much more violent act than not paying taxes because most of your tax dollars are going to fund these wars that I (and Hedges) believe to be criminal and downright evil.
I don't believe Thoreau was effective in stopping his war, was he? And if one does not wish to pay the war tax then that is possible, but you it is a legal and cumbersome process wherein the IRS can get into your personal bank account to take your money while you stay out of jail. I know Joan Baez did.
As for the equivocation of paying taxes to violence is to abstract for dumb ones like me. And the notion of war being evil is most interesting. That means there is a "good" war, which means that persons can justify anything, especially if you've seen war, and I gather he and his ilk have found "good" in war. I gather he's been in a war to make such a statement? I suppose he's had a guys brains and blood stuck on his face? Makes me puke and it won't be the first time!
Such stupidity can ruin a morning! I'm gone and piffle on all of this.
Criminals do not forfeit their rights!
Who IN HELL is anyone to forfeit the rights of another? The person that tells me that needs a good beating! And I am a non-violent person, or so I thought until I run into this crap! And that is what it is! We may disagree about this and that and that is all fine and dandy but when another tells me OR ANYONE that they are not citizens, then it is ON!
I think you missed the point at the beginning about Thoreau. Hedges was trying to highlight the effectiveness of civil disobedience through this tax evasion example. Essentially he was calling for non violent civil disobedience to combat the violence of our government. His point was that paying taxes is a much more violent act than not paying taxes because most of your tax dollars are going to fund these wars that I (and Hedges) believe to be criminal and downright evil.
I don't believe Thoreau was effective in stopping his war, was he? And if one does not wish to pay the war tax then that is possible, but you it is a legal and cumbersome process wherein the IRS can get into your personal bank account to take your money while you stay out of jail. I know Joan Baez did.
As for the equivocation of paying taxes to violence is to abstract for dumb ones like me. And the notion of war being evil is most interesting. That means there is a "good" war, which means that persons can justify anything, especially if you've seen war, and I gather he and his ilk have found "good" in war. I gather he's been in a war to make such a statement? I suppose he's had a guys brains and blood stuck on his face? Makes me puke and it won't be the first time!
Such stupidity can ruin a morning! I'm gone and piffle on all of this.
someguy
02-06-2010, 08:30 AM
Criminals do not forfeit their rights!
Who IN HELL is anyone to forfeit the rights of another? The person that tells me that needs a good beating! And I am a non-violent person, or so I thought until I run into this crap! And that is what it is! We may disagree about this and that and that is all fine and dandy but when another tells me OR ANYONE that they are not citizens, then it is ON!
I don't believe Thoreau was effective in stopping his war, was he? And if one does not wish to pay the war tax then that is possible, but you it is a legal and cumbersome process wherein the IRS can get into your personal bank account to take your money while you stay out of jail. I know Joan Baez did.
As for the equivocation of paying taxes to violence is to abstract for dumb ones like me. And the notion of war being evil is most interesting. That means there is a "good" war, which means that persons can justify anything, especially if you've seen war, and I gather he and his ilk have found "good" in war. I gather he's been in a war to make such a statement? I suppose he's had a guys brains and blood stuck on his face? Makes me puke and it won't be the first time!
Such stupidity can ruin a morning! I'm gone and piffle on all of this.
:hmmm: I think you are still missing the entire point of the original video. No one is forfeiting anyone elses rights! No one ever said such a thing, and I have no idea where you're coming up with that. What Chris Hedges is saying is that a person who fails to exercise their rights as citizens has effectively forfeited their own rights. What good are rights if you fail to use them? He's not saying that the person is not a citizen! No one said that. I don't know how to make this point any clearer. You can disagree if you want, but it makes little sense to disagree with something without understanding it.
I have no idea what youre saying about a "good" war. The notion of war being evil means that there is no "good" war. Chris Hedges indeed does have first hand experience with war as a Pulitzer Prize-winning correspondent who covered conflicts for two decades in Central America, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans. For a summary of his views of war, see the thread I started yesterday titled "The Pictures of War You Aren't Supposed to See".
Who IN HELL is anyone to forfeit the rights of another? The person that tells me that needs a good beating! And I am a non-violent person, or so I thought until I run into this crap! And that is what it is! We may disagree about this and that and that is all fine and dandy but when another tells me OR ANYONE that they are not citizens, then it is ON!
I don't believe Thoreau was effective in stopping his war, was he? And if one does not wish to pay the war tax then that is possible, but you it is a legal and cumbersome process wherein the IRS can get into your personal bank account to take your money while you stay out of jail. I know Joan Baez did.
As for the equivocation of paying taxes to violence is to abstract for dumb ones like me. And the notion of war being evil is most interesting. That means there is a "good" war, which means that persons can justify anything, especially if you've seen war, and I gather he and his ilk have found "good" in war. I gather he's been in a war to make such a statement? I suppose he's had a guys brains and blood stuck on his face? Makes me puke and it won't be the first time!
Such stupidity can ruin a morning! I'm gone and piffle on all of this.
:hmmm: I think you are still missing the entire point of the original video. No one is forfeiting anyone elses rights! No one ever said such a thing, and I have no idea where you're coming up with that. What Chris Hedges is saying is that a person who fails to exercise their rights as citizens has effectively forfeited their own rights. What good are rights if you fail to use them? He's not saying that the person is not a citizen! No one said that. I don't know how to make this point any clearer. You can disagree if you want, but it makes little sense to disagree with something without understanding it.
I have no idea what youre saying about a "good" war. The notion of war being evil means that there is no "good" war. Chris Hedges indeed does have first hand experience with war as a Pulitzer Prize-winning correspondent who covered conflicts for two decades in Central America, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans. For a summary of his views of war, see the thread I started yesterday titled "The Pictures of War You Aren't Supposed to See".
LenInSebastopol
02-06-2010, 02:20 PM
:hmmm: I think you are still missing the entire point of the original video. No one is forfeiting anyone elses rights! No one ever said such a thing, and I have no idea where you're coming up with that.
Well, Tars got it right: the guy DO go on. Maybe what he said is if you are in the Democratic Party AND support the wars then you forfeit your rights as a citizen. I suppose Peace & Freedom, American Independent (they too are against the "wars") Green Peace, Libertarian Party, and now the Tea Party (give it six months) and many others are against these "wars", so there are strange bedfellows all over the map.
Oh, and I came up with "that" finishing at 1:19 seconds, but as Tars pointed out, it came from much farther back as the dude just rambles on without a breath.
Look, I don't care who says it and in what context, no matter WHO you are, believe, or do, NO ONE TELLS ANOTHER THEIR RIGHTS ARE FORFEITED. No one GIVES those rights and NONE shall take it away. It IS a societal covenant and we all give some rights away to live together....wait, his IF statement means that none should live with those Democrats that support the war? Does that mean throw them out of the party? Kill and ostracize them? No, I didn't think so either, but then that is ALWAYS the problem with Rhetoric. It makes no sense but soothes the soul. Is this guy the Glenn Beck of the Left?
What Chris Hedges is saying is that a person who fails to exercise their rights as citizens has effectively forfeited their own rights. What good are rights if you fail to use them? He's not saying that the person is not a citizen! No one said that. I don't know how to make this point any clearer. You can disagree if you want, but it makes little sense to disagree with something without understanding it.
Well, that IS a call to activism if not arms, but then I am not a Trotskyite. Like your public name, I am just a guy, and wish to be left to raise my garden, tend my wood, and do my thing. I do not wish to enter into nightly meetings, nor run for office, and leave that to the far younger crowd. Every citizen has a right to be left alone by his govt as well as the rantings of other powerless madmen & madwomen and that is a most special right.
I have no idea what youre saying about a "good" war. The notion of war being evil means that there is no "good" war. Chris Hedges indeed does have first hand experience with war as a Pulitzer Prize-winning correspondent who covered conflicts for two decades in Central America, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans. For a summary of his views of war, see the thread I started yesterday titled "The Pictures of War You Aren't Supposed to See".
My bad....a "good" war can also mean a "just" war. A war that fullfills the definition as laid out by Cicero and furthered by a bunch of dudes, mostly religious (of course) and brought over into the era of exploration, exploitation, rationalization and killing every one else in the world, all "good wars". I suppose according to your hero, this ain't one of those ones.
As for whoever Chris dude is, I give him no more respect just 'cause he carried a pen in the mud. Try wearing one pair of socks for two 9 month tours and knowing because you carry a pen and not a rifle that your life is negotiable, whereas the grunt with a gun's ain't. When he was in the bush why didn't he go and talk to the enemy to death or bore them with his outlook? Or did he give them an even hand too?
You know what? Enough. Bad taste all around. Otta here
Well, Tars got it right: the guy DO go on. Maybe what he said is if you are in the Democratic Party AND support the wars then you forfeit your rights as a citizen. I suppose Peace & Freedom, American Independent (they too are against the "wars") Green Peace, Libertarian Party, and now the Tea Party (give it six months) and many others are against these "wars", so there are strange bedfellows all over the map.
Oh, and I came up with "that" finishing at 1:19 seconds, but as Tars pointed out, it came from much farther back as the dude just rambles on without a breath.
Look, I don't care who says it and in what context, no matter WHO you are, believe, or do, NO ONE TELLS ANOTHER THEIR RIGHTS ARE FORFEITED. No one GIVES those rights and NONE shall take it away. It IS a societal covenant and we all give some rights away to live together....wait, his IF statement means that none should live with those Democrats that support the war? Does that mean throw them out of the party? Kill and ostracize them? No, I didn't think so either, but then that is ALWAYS the problem with Rhetoric. It makes no sense but soothes the soul. Is this guy the Glenn Beck of the Left?
What Chris Hedges is saying is that a person who fails to exercise their rights as citizens has effectively forfeited their own rights. What good are rights if you fail to use them? He's not saying that the person is not a citizen! No one said that. I don't know how to make this point any clearer. You can disagree if you want, but it makes little sense to disagree with something without understanding it.
Well, that IS a call to activism if not arms, but then I am not a Trotskyite. Like your public name, I am just a guy, and wish to be left to raise my garden, tend my wood, and do my thing. I do not wish to enter into nightly meetings, nor run for office, and leave that to the far younger crowd. Every citizen has a right to be left alone by his govt as well as the rantings of other powerless madmen & madwomen and that is a most special right.
I have no idea what youre saying about a "good" war. The notion of war being evil means that there is no "good" war. Chris Hedges indeed does have first hand experience with war as a Pulitzer Prize-winning correspondent who covered conflicts for two decades in Central America, Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans. For a summary of his views of war, see the thread I started yesterday titled "The Pictures of War You Aren't Supposed to See".
My bad....a "good" war can also mean a "just" war. A war that fullfills the definition as laid out by Cicero and furthered by a bunch of dudes, mostly religious (of course) and brought over into the era of exploration, exploitation, rationalization and killing every one else in the world, all "good wars". I suppose according to your hero, this ain't one of those ones.
As for whoever Chris dude is, I give him no more respect just 'cause he carried a pen in the mud. Try wearing one pair of socks for two 9 month tours and knowing because you carry a pen and not a rifle that your life is negotiable, whereas the grunt with a gun's ain't. When he was in the bush why didn't he go and talk to the enemy to death or bore them with his outlook? Or did he give them an even hand too?
You know what? Enough. Bad taste all around. Otta here