Scared on the Santa Rosa Creek Trail [Archive]

paulswetdog

01-26-2010, 01:17 PM

I had an unpleasant experience today. I run with my dogs off leash a couple of times a week on the SR Creek Trail. A lot of people do the same. Today a young man was approaching us from ahead, and without warning, when he passed my 6 month old (about 20 feet ahead of me), started yelling and trying to kick her, then started yelling and waving his arms in the air at me and proceeded to run past me to kick my older dog, all the time yelling about the leash law. HE then yelled at me a bunch, pretty much scraing the crap out of me, since he's bigger, younger, and had already shown himself capable of violence.

Okay, my dogs were off leash, but under my control, and harmless (damn things didn't even come to my defense, which is bothering me a bit). But I don't feel it is this person's place to (A) tell me to pt my dogs on leash, or (B) assault my dogs, or (C) threaten me (well, I feel that I was threatened.)

I feel that he was actually in the wrong for attacking us, and that my dogs being off leash is not an excuse for that assault. What do you think? I am tempted to call the sheriff, since I am now nervous about this guy, who attacked us with no provocation.

paulswetdog

01-26-2010, 06:59 PM

Would be interested to hear what the sheriff would have to say. I gather it's against the law to run your dogs off leash? The guy's reaction was intense but perhaps he'd been assaulted by dogs before? I have been and it remains with me even now, thirty years later. Do let us know.

I am sure he has had trouble with dogs before. I met him out there once before, and his behavior was extremely edgy and intimidating towards my dog, who fortunately is very mild mannered. I am sure it would have set off a more aggressive dog, which is probably what has happened to him before, and now he just has to go in swinging.

He's really pretty lucky he picked mine, and not some 120 pound German Shepard. My cowards didn't even growl! (I like mild mannered dogs, like Labs. Who needs trouble, eh?)

"Mad" Miles

01-26-2010, 07:41 PM

Hey Paulswetdog,

I think his reaction was excessive, and he shouldn't be attacking your dogs or you.

But the fact remains that you were breaking the leash law. If one of your dogs had defended you by biting him, and you seem to imply regret that they didn't, guess who would be cleaning up with a damage claim?

What is your justification for violating the leash law? And for the record, I'm no fetishist of law abidence. I fudge a few traffic rules once and a "rare" while. Still what I do is calculated and safety is paramount.

But if I were fairly busted by the cops, I wouldn't be blaming them for doing so. I wouldn't like it but I would recognize that it was my own fault.

This, by the way, is a far more compliant attitude than the one I had in my late teens and twenties. I'm still a rebel, but I try to avoid petty meaningless fights.

Sorry for your bad day, but as you've so clearly demonstrated, this guy has issues with dogs off leash. Maybe he has good reasons for them, even if his behavior was aggressive and disturbing.

If the matter came to the sheriff's attention, who do you think they would be writing up, or possibly even putting in bracelets?

Once several decades ago, while in a mildly altered mental state, I took our beautiful, gentle border collie, Bonnie, to a park in SoCA, The OC. She was on leash the whole time, but a little kid, maybe three or four years old, hugged her a little too hard and she snapped at him, nipping, but not breaking, the skin on his upper arm. Needless to say the kid started bawling up a tempest.

Luckily his parents were cool about it. I profusely apologized.

But I was sweating bullets, if a cop came by to intervene, and spotted my, uh, mental state, I could have gone down big time!

I was lucky, and learned a lesson. Some risks, even if seemingly mild, are not worth the pleasure of pushing the limits.

This, by the way, is not a story I would ever tell my students, in prison, or in public school!

Happy Trails,

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

SLurins

01-26-2010, 09:18 PM

Paul, of course he wasn't justified in attacking your dogs. However, other than a few specific places that are official "dog parks", that allow off leash activity during set times or within a fenced area, Sonoma County (and the entire Santa Rosa Creek trail) requires dogs to be on a 6-foot leash at all times.

I too often take my dogs on the creek trail. Like many on the trail with dogs, I put my dogs back on leash anytime someone is ahead or coming up from behind, so as not to have any unpleasant encounters with either humans who do not appreciate canines, or with other dogs. The other dog people on the part of the trail I frequent all do the same. It seems like an unwritten courtesy of taking liberties with the leash law.

Reporting the man to authorities probably won't result in much for you at this point except hearing from them that your dogs are not allowed off leash, and unwanted attention for all of us who take some liberty with the leash law on the creek trail. Maybe you can plan to either keep your dogs on leash with you, or put them back on when others are around? I know it's a hassle, but just like picking up dog poop and other things we dog people must do, it's a responsibility that comes with the territory, so to speak.

PS Came across some poop on the creek trail the other day too... really, people, right in the middle of the path? :Yinyangv:

chiquita52

01-26-2010, 09:24 PM

WeAreLove

01-26-2010, 10:12 PM

I'm amazed at the incredible self-centered narcissism I see displayed on this forum again and again.

The problem is not the guy who went ballistic over dogs not on a leash, it's people who think they're ABOVE the law that is written for very good reasons.

A few years ago I was walking in a local park that doesn't allow dogs at all, let alone on a leash. A young couple were crossing a large clearing and their three dogs were running freely across the field. The dogs saw me and started running towards me. The young woman yelled 'don't worry, they don't bite' then the dogs reached me and one of them promptly bite my hand, badly.

I now carry a stun gun, and if your dog runs at me it is at serious risk of getting the biggest shock of it's life.

WeAreLove

01-27-2010, 09:33 AM

"Paulwetdog"

I'm not replying to your email privately, because I don't want someone like you having my email address.

Next time you get a ticket for speeding, try telling the officer that *lots of other people speed too* and see if that works.

You don't have the right to terrify me with your loose dogs. Terrified is not too strong a word for the way I experience dogs running loose now, after that young couple broke the law and took away my sense of safety in the presence of dogs. Being the narcissist you are, I didn't bother saying that in the first post because you'll have plenty of self-centered reasons that it's okay with you that I'm now scared out of my wits.

Since you don't care about the law, and you don't care about other people's feelings (maybe that young man has been mauled by a dog too) I'm telling you the only thing that may get through your obnoxious attitude of self-entitlement. If you break the law and your dog runs loose at me, I'm going to defend myself, and your dog is going to get stopped in it's tracks.

paulswetdog

01-27-2010, 10:49 AM

"I'm not replying to your email privately, because I don't want someone like you having my email address"???

Did I address you privately? If so, I apologize. I thought better of my post once I saw it, and decided to withdraw it. I guess it was too late to keep it from getting to you. I would take it back if I could, but its out there now. Just like your insinuation that I might be interested in somehow harassing you.

For the rest of you, my withdrawn comment had to do with whether we all break some laws sometimes and are willing to accept that we may be fined or otherwise punished, which I believe most of us are.

I can see that some people have intense feelings about this stuff. I have intense feelings for my dog. I felt sickened and frightened to see someone kick her in the guts as she tried to get past him, especially since that person was screaming and swearing and threatening me, too. I had no idea if he had a knife or a gun, and was going to flip out and kill us all, or maybe just stomp my best friend to death. I lay awake half the night wondering if she might have an internal injury and I would find her dead in the morning.

I was going to post a description of the guy, but I think maybe this has already gotten out of control.

someguy

01-27-2010, 01:08 PM

Man people here in America are so uptight. When I lived in Argentina dogs ran freely throughout the city mixing and mingeling with the people. Nobody seemed frightened, nobody seemed hurt, everybody acted as if it were normal. But here in America we carry stun guns and kick dogs when they are off leash to drown out our fears of a liberated pup. It truly is a shame. I feel so bad for dogs here in America. Shit, I feel bad about a lot of things Americans do out of fear. Like taking extreme measures to combat terrorism even though terrorism itself kills a very very very small amount of people anually in comparison to almost any other cause of death you can think of. Same with dogs. Dog bites do happen on rare occasion, and too bad for us dog owners the majority of people have blown this fear of dog bites way out of proportion and all dogs are condemned as dangerous until put on a leash. I find this to be very sad. Im sorry for your dogs Paul.

Clancy

01-27-2010, 01:24 PM

Having spent 7 years volunteering at local animal shelters, I have to say, you're way off base here. Dog bites are not rare, they happen all the time.

Just over 1,000 people a day go to emergency rooms in the US for dog bites. Presumably far more are bitten every day that don't go to the emergency room.

A survey by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta ("CDC") concluded that dogs bite nearly 2% of the U.S. population -- more than 4.7 million people annually. (Sacks JJ, Kresnow M, Houston B. Dog bites: how big a problem? Injury Prev 1996;2:52-4.)
DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere (https://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html)

Man people here in America are so uptight. When I lived in Argentina dogs ran freely throughout the city mixing and mingeling with the people. Nobody seemed frightened, nobody seemed hurt, everybody acted as if it were normal. But here in America we carry stun guns and kick dogs when they are off leash to drown out our fears of a liberated pup. It truly is a shame. I feel so bad for dogs here in America. Shit, I feel bad about a lot of things Americans do out of fear. Like taking extreme measures to combat terrorism even though terrorism itself kills a very very very small amount of people anually in comparison to almost any other cause of death you can think of. Same with dogs. Dog bites do happen on rare occasion, and too bad for us dog owners the majority of people have blown this fear of dog bites way out of proportion and all dogs are condemned as dangerous until put on a leash. I find this to be very sad. Im sorry for your dogs Paul.

Barry

01-27-2010, 01:30 PM

I had 2 golden retrievers, both of whom were first in their obedience classes , and would heal (off leash) when directed, including staying right beside my left leg and automatically sitting when I stopped. That's what I call being "under my control".

I'm also "no fetishist of law abidance" but I try be responsible when I color outside the lines ("But to live outside the law, you must be honest (https://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/absolutely-sweet-marie)"). In this case that would mean having your dogs fully under your control and near you (not 20' feet) when others approach.

That said, the "young man" was way out of line to kick your dog and verbally assault you. To politely inform and request that you respect the law would have been appropriate. His actions were not. He sounds like he also needed to be on leash!

The man on the trail, as well as "WeAreLove" (don't you love it when people pick names that they are not? It reminds me of "Fair and Balanced"), are re-creating their past traumatic experience and creating new traumatic experiences that have nothing to do with love and everything to do with fear.

someguy

01-27-2010, 02:04 PM

Having spent 7 years volunteering at local animal shelters, I have to say, you're way off base here. Dog bites are not rare, they happen all the time.

Just over 1,000 people a day go to emergency rooms in the US for dog bites. Presumably far more are bitten every day that don't go to the emergency room.

A survey by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta ("CDC") concluded that dogs bite nearly 2% of the U.S. population -- more than 4.7 million people annually. (Sacks JJ, Kresnow M, Houston B. Dog bites: how big a problem? Injury Prev 1996;2:52-4.)
DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere (https://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html)

Of those 1,000 people per day I wonder how many were biten by police dogs, or dogs defending their homes/owners in a legitment manner... I dont know for sure, but probably some of them. Either way, dogs bite people sometimes, its a fact. Do dogs bite enough people annually to justifiy carrying stun guns around and kicking off leash dogs? That question is a matter of opinion. But Ive gotta say that the cultural views in regards to this issue (Argentina vs. America) are extremely different. And I can't assume that dogs are any different genetically in Argentina than they are here, nor can I assume that they bite less people (percentage-wise) annually down there. I can only assume that our perception of the risk here in America is much more fear driven and restrictive, for good or ill. Personally I like living in a culture where dogs roam freely.

Clancy

01-27-2010, 02:28 PM

If you'd take the time to read the link you'd see that most victims are children, bitten in the face.

Of those 1,000 people per day I wonder how many were biten by police dogs, or dogs defending their homes/owners in a legitment manner... I dont know for sure, but probably some of them. Either way, dogs bite people sometimes, its a fact. Do dogs bite enough people annually to justifiy carrying stun guns around and kicking off leash dogs? That question is a matter of opinion. But Ive gotta say that the cultural views in regards to this issue (Argentina vs. America) are extremely different. And I can't assume that dogs are any different genetically in Argentina than they are here, nor can I assume that they bite less people (percentage-wise) annually down there. I can only assume that our perception of the risk here in America is much more fear driven and restrictive, for good or ill. Personally I like living in a culture where dogs roam freely.

someguy

01-27-2010, 02:44 PM

If you'd take the time to read the link you'd see that most victims are children, bitten in the face.

I did totally read it. That doesn't make my question invalid, does it? No. Most were children, but maybe some were criminals. I wish you'd think more before you attempt to make me seem like I don't know what I'm saying.

Clancy

01-27-2010, 03:15 PM

<a target='_blank' title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='https://img196.imageshack.us/i/bestdogintheworld.jpg/'><img src='https://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1452/bestdogintheworld.jpg' border='0'/></a>

This was my best friend for 15 years. She died about twenty years ago. The photo was taken just north of Bodega Bay.

I knew all the best places to take a dog without a leash, but if she were alive I wouldn't do it today, she'd always be leashed.

As our society gets more and more stressed, more and more people are on a hair-trigger, and as this thread has shown, it's risky for everyone involved to take a dog out in public unleashed.

I run and hike up in Annadel a lot. I constantly see people taking their dogs up there (they're not allowed at all), with no leash, the dogs chasing the wildlife and sometimes aggressively approaching me.

I also see some people who are obviously living in great fear, they radiate it as I walk by, and they ignore my "hello" or "good morning".

Millions of people are armed in this whacky, slowly collapsing society, like "WeAreLove". No way I'd put my dog at that kind of risk today.

I'm hoping to make this my last "debate" thread. I spend far too much time here, I have more productive uses for it.

I'm not entirely leaving, just going to use Wacco as most people do, a bulletin board for giving and receiving information.

someguy

01-27-2010, 03:25 PM

Er, SomeGuy, you're pushing it with children as criminals. Children trust and come too close and they're about the same height as an average dog. Are you really suggesting that some children are criminal in their behavior?

No, I'm suggesting that of the nearly 2% of the US population that is bit by dogs annually (according to Clancy's link), most were children, but likely some were criminals that were bitten by either police dogs or dogs defending their property. I am NOT suggesting that some of the children are criminals........how could you possibly have taken my statement that way??????? Seriously, come on! That's utterly absurd that you would try to misconstrue what I've said in this manner.

paulswetdog

01-27-2010, 07:32 PM

Thanks, Barry. I remember Blue, or was it Stella Blue?. Great dog. Really great dog.

I think Clancy has it right. We live in a collapsing society. Why we seem headed in that direction I do not understand. There is so much wealth, and so much fear, and so much knowledge and so much stupidity. It baffles me.

So, I too am going to sign off from this and probably all of these threads. I just want to leave with an answer to Mad Max, I think, who asked why I would let my dogs off leash. The answer is that I feel so crushed and oppressed and alienated by this society that I have come to depend on my dog as a sort of liferaft in the sea of fear and greed and lies that is modern America. And so, to escape that hell, I go to the outdoors with my best friend, and we run free in the wind and the rain for a time, and I try to forget my pain.

Goodnight, and Good Luck

santarosie

01-27-2010, 10:48 PM

This thread really begs the question, "Why aren't there any off-leash trails anywhere in our area?" So MANY dog loving people here who would love to have just one place they can go to walk & run with their dogs off leash. I'm all about conservation and protecting wildlife and their habitat, but how about just one spot???? Dog-owning tax payers certainly get the short-shrift. We help pay for all kinds of parks and playgrounds. Yet, a typical dog park is generally the size of a backyard (or two), often dirty and muddy, with no real room to roam. Rocky Memorial is the only place where you can actually hike around with your best friend running by your side.

Although I am well aware that dogs bite, and am always cautious of dogs that look like they could, whether on leash or off, I would take my chances to hike with my dog in such a place if it existed locally. Until then, I keep my faithful companion on leash where mandated, and dream....:puppy:

auroramagiceyes

01-28-2010, 02:39 AM

Northern California Dog Fun Directory (https://www.ecoanimal.com/dogfun/ca/north.html#son)

Sonoma Dog-Friendly Attractions (https://www.sonoma-backroads-and-byways.com/sonoma-dog-friendly.html)

links to a start to a solution to the problem.

Now here's where I'll probably tick off a good section of the community, owning a dog is no different then owning a loaded gun. The only difference is you have a better chance being able to control your gun. Dogs like it or not are the domesticated descendants of wolves, they are companions to many (including myself) but I never forget that my animals have the genetic capacity to both hunt and kill regardless of what level they were provoked. Regardless of the fact that my dogs have never attacked a human being, I will never take that fact for granted and make the arrogant stand that it could never happen.

When I adopted my most recent dog the rescue agency required a contact for my responsibility in making this animal a part of my family. In that contract I agreed to always have my dog on a leash when I take them out for a walk and that I am never allowed to let my dog run off leash outside of the confines of my private residence. Now does this seem harsh well when you read the wording of the contract the leash requirement is for the protection of the animal from other animals, traffic, or anything that the dog could encounter while being outside of my control.

Something many cultural anthropologists have noted with modern society is the tendency to anthropomorphize human emotions onto the pets that reside in our homes, a direct result of this is the impulse to then grant these animals freedoms that we would bestow on other humans. Hence many feel there is a "need" to allow dogs to run free in the public space, because the dogs need exercise and its the dogs right to express that freedom, the reality is dogs are property and when brought out to public shared spaces as their owners we have a legal obligation to protect the public from what our property is capable of doing.

notsomuch

01-28-2010, 06:33 PM

Funny how "we" so casually think of animals as property. With an inanimate object we would obviously treat that property a bit differently, there would not be any issues of being humane or not.

Of course, you ARE responsible for your animals, and in short I would have my dogs on a leash, but I would also have a (not stun) gun. I guess you can say I am also serious about defending my "property." Yes I understand the point about "to anthropomorphic human emotions," which has been repeated to death, maybe that's some peoples idea of what being humane means. However there's a little something called compassion that some people consider fairly universal, and for that matter I would not consider a human life as being worth more than a dogs, especially if that one attacks without provocation. Lets talk about entitlement and arrogance if we're going to talk about anthropomorphic traits.

By the way, to put it in context clearly a lot of people feel this way about nature itself, but as we know others say the earth does not belong to us, we belong to it.

notsomuch

01-28-2010, 07:11 PM

You do realize you did not address the non-aggressive dog being kicked don't you? Is that not a problem, not in terms of this overall situation but the act in itself? (and given the fact that you chose a stun gun to defend yourself I imagine you may have some regard for being humane to the animal) I recognize that you had a traumatic experience and I may not respond if not for the fact that your alias is "WeAreLove" and you going on about being self-centered. That "we" is not only where people are concerned is it? As you observed it is the fault of irresponsible people, and while it's the nature of trauma to make that impression it strikes me as rather like being afraid of, say African American teens because you got mugged by one.

Given your background I'm sure some may feel this is inappropriate, (I am ready for some "How dare yous") but regardless of how this may be taken the fact is I only bother to say it because I think there's a chance of it being heard - in other words I assume you are reasonable.

"Paulwetdog"

I'm not replying to your email privately, because I don't want someone like you having my email address.

Next time you get a ticket for speeding, try telling the officer that *lots of other people speed too* and see if that works.

You don't have the right to terrify me with your loose dogs. Terrified is not too strong a word for the way I experience dogs running loose now, after that young couple broke the law and took away my sense of safety in the presence of dogs. Being the narcissist you are, I didn't bother saying that in the first post because you'll have plenty of self-centered reasons that it's okay with you that I'm now scared out of my wits.

Since you don't care about the law, and you don't care about other people's feelings (maybe that young man has been mauled by a dog too) I'm telling you the only thing that may get through your obnoxious attitude of self-entitlement. If you break the law and your dog runs loose at me, I'm going to defend myself, and your dog is going to get stopped in it's tracks.

auroramagiceyes

01-29-2010, 12:21 AM

If were going to beat anthropomorphic to death.......
See Him (https://getbehindjesus.net/SeeHim.html)

Funny how "we" so casually think of animals as property. With an inanimate object we would obviously treat that property a bit differently, there would not be any issues of being humane or not.

Of course, you ARE responsible for your animals, and in short I would have my dogs on a leash, but I would also have a (not stun) gun. I guess you can say I am also serious about defending my "property." Yes I understand the point about "to anthropomorphic human emotions," which has been repeated to death, maybe that's some peoples idea of what being humane means. However there's a little something called compassion that some people consider fairly universal, and for that matter I would not consider a human life as being worth more than a dogs, especially if that one attacks without provocation. Lets talk about entitlement and arrogance if we're going to talk about anthropomorphic traits.

By the way, to put it in context clearly a lot of people feel this way about nature itself, but as we know others say the earth does not belong to us, we belong to it.

alanora

01-29-2010, 03:00 AM

santarosie

01-29-2010, 11:26 PM

Holy Cow people! (And nothing personal alanora, at least you cared enough to try)

I know this is a whole other discussion, but finding spelling, grammar, and correct word usage information on the web takes mere seconds.

anthropomorphize - definition of anthropomorphize by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/anthropomorphize)
an·thro·po·mor·phize (nthr-p-môrfz)
v. an·thro·po·mor·phized, an·thro·po·mor·phiz·ing, an·thro·po·mor·phiz·es
v.tr.
To ascribe human characteristics to.
v.intr.
To ascribe human characteristics to things not human.

Nothing personal, placement of spelling concern is arbitrary, I just could not stand it any more.....the word for putting human emotions etc. onto animals is not anthropromorphic as that is an adjective. We need something like anthropromorphize or something verb like, I can't seem to find a version that spell check likes......

honeypie

01-30-2010, 09:23 AM

Nothing personal, placement of spelling concern is arbitrary, I just could not stand it any more.....the word for putting human emotions etc. onto animals is not anthropromorphic as that is an adjective. We need something like anthropromorphize or something verb like, I can't seem to find a version that spell check likes......

YES! and, I admit to being influenced by that kind of thing. If a Craigs list ad is full of incorrect grammar and bad spelling, I form some sort of idea of who i am dealing with,and,ashamed to say,it affects how seriously I take them.

podfish

01-30-2010, 04:07 PM

shooting a loose dog seems kind of extreme to me. But I understand the impulse. That's why I'm not really excited by the idea of people with attitudes and guns on the trails. The guy with the gun probably thinks -he's- the good guy.

... I would also have a (not stun) gun. .

Philip Tymon

01-30-2010, 05:02 PM

1. If the law says your dog is supposed to be leashed, then it's supposed to be leashed.

2. Someone who kicks at unleashed dogs is either nuts or trying to get the dog to bite him so he can call the police and sue you.

3. Outside of the US, in the vast majority of places dogs run around unleashed. Its normal and no one pays any attention. People in the US are increasingly neurotic. If you trip on the sidewalk, you sue someone. I've been to lots of third world countries and you are responsible for yourself-- you need to stay alert and aware, but also relaxed. The sidewalks are a mess, the roads are a mess, people drive like crazy, stuff goes whizzing by you all the time. You deal with it. Everyone does.

4. I used to be a member of all the park systems, local, regional, state, national, etc. Then I realized I never used any of the park systems because when I went walking or running I always took my dogs and they all forbid off-leash dogs. So I only went to my "secret" places where I could take my dogs off-leash and no one knew or cared. Since they don't serve my needs, why should I support them? They could figure out a way to allow dogs if they wanted to, but they don't.

(I found it pretty ironic once when I was trying to "sneak" my dogs into Annadel through a remote point for a little walk and two very angry people on horse patrol came galloping up to me and demanded that I leave immediately. Let's see-- who's doing more damage to the trails, causing more erosion, has the bigger and more dangerous animal, etc. etc. Not that I don't also love horses, but obviously the extremely wealthy horse lobby has a lot more political clout than I do. I hope they use their wealth to support Annadel, cause I'm not.)

That's my rant for now-- Phil

I had an unpleasant experience today. I run with my dogs off leash a couple of times a week on the SR Creek Trail. A lot of people do the same. Today a young man was approaching us from ahead, and without warning, when he passed my 6 month old (about 20 feet ahead of me), started yelling and trying to kick her, then started yelling and waving his arms in the air at me and proceeded to run past me to kick my older dog, all the time yelling about the leash law. HE then yelled at me a bunch, pretty much scraing the crap out of me, since he's bigger, younger, and had already shown himself capable of violence.

Okay, my dogs were off leash, but under my control, and harmless (damn things didn't even come to my defense, which is bothering me a bit). But I don't feel it is this person's place to (A) tell me to pt my dogs on leash, or (B) assault my dogs, or (C) threaten me (well, I feel that I was threatened.)

I feel that he was actually in the wrong for attacking us, and that my dogs being off leash is not an excuse for that assault. What do you think? I am tempted to call the sheriff, since I am now nervous about this guy, who attacked us with no provocation.

pepsi60

01-31-2010, 05:25 AM

For the person that wondered which was worse, horses on the trail, or dogs, if your a little kid and have been bitten by a dog, then you will know. I havent met many dog owners that will say that their dog bits, but when a dog races toward you and growling, how do you really know? Most dog owners seem to blame the victim, buy saying that they dont know how to behave around dogs, and should have reacted differently when they thought they were atacked.
Yes, people are very up tight nowdays, but that dosent give you the right to bring your dog to a park and chase people and some of the wild game that many of us come to see. If non dog people are so up tight, what about the dog people? Do we really all need to have dogs? Do we really need to have a dog for protection when we walk in a park?
Many countries have a more liberal dog policy, but many of them also have a bad problem with rabies, Bangkok had 10 deaths from rabies last year.

1. If the law says your dog is supposed to be leashed, then it's supposed to be leashed.

2. Someone who kicks at unleashed dogs is either nuts or trying to get the dog to bite him so he can call the police and sue you.

3. Outside of the US, in the vast majority of places dogs run around unleashed. Its normal and no one pays any attention. People in the US are increasingly neurotic. If you trip on the sidewalk, you sue someone. I've been to lots of third world countries and you are responsible for yourself-- you need to stay alert and aware, but also relaxed. The sidewalks are a mess, the roads are a mess, people drive like crazy, stuff goes whizzing by you all the time. You deal with it. Everyone does.

4. I used to be a member of all the park systems, local, regional, state, national, etc. Then I realized I never used any of the park systems because when I went walking or running I always took my dogs and they all forbid off-leash dogs. So I only went to my "secret" places where I could take my dogs off-leash and no one knew or cared. Since they don't serve my needs, why should I support them? They could figure out a way to allow dogs if they wanted to, but they don't.

(I found it pretty ironic once when I was trying to "sneak" my dogs into Annadel through a remote point for a little walk and two very angry people on horse patrol came galloping up to me and demanded that I leave immediately. Let's see-- who's doing more damage to the trails, causing more erosion, has the bigger and more dangerous animal, etc. etc. Not that I don't also love horses, but obviously the extremely wealthy horse lobby has a lot more political clout than I do. I hope they use their wealth to support Annadel, cause I'm not.)

That's my rant for now-- Phil

hdwest24

01-31-2010, 08:43 PM

I think I was going to reply a little more aggressively to your comments and then I read Barry's response to yours and I felt like he said it all in the most obvious way. The only thing he didn't say was if you instigate any kind of violence towards dogs off leash that is unwarranted because they are friendly and passive...then you have to deal with the reprecussions of the owner. Don't forget that dogs are our children and we will do anything to protect them.

"Paulwetdog"

I'm not replying to your email privately, because I don't want someone like you having my email address.

Next time you get a ticket for speeding, try telling the officer that *lots of other people speed too* and see if that works.

You don't have the right to terrify me with your loose dogs. Terrified is not too strong a word for the way I experience dogs running loose now, after that young couple broke the law and took away my sense of safety in the presence of dogs. Being the narcissist you are, I didn't bother saying that in the first post because you'll have plenty of self-centered reasons that it's okay with you that I'm now scared out of my wits.

Since you don't care about the law, and you don't care about other people's feelings (maybe that young man has been mauled by a dog too) I'm telling you the only thing that may get through your obnoxious attitude of self-entitlement. If you break the law and your dog runs loose at me, I'm going to defend myself, and your dog is going to get stopped in it's tracks.

Veeja

03-27-2010, 11:38 PM

First of all. I hope the best for you best friends. I'm one of those people that have my dog off leash from time to time. She's 12, comes or stops on voice command. She is never anymore than 6 feet from me. I leash her if anyone or animal is approaching. I'm not saying it is right or wrong to do this. By law it is wrong. But, if anyone kicked or hurt my girl in anyway, I would pick up the nearest stick and hit that guy in the gut so hard he would wish he never even looked at my dog. No one will hurt me or my family. And my girl will not harm anyone else unless provoked.

"I'm not replying to your email privately, because I don't want someone like you having my email address"???

Did I address you privately? If so, I apologize. I thought better of my post once I saw it, and decided to withdraw it. I guess it was too late to keep it from getting to you. I would take it back if I could, but its out there now. Just like your insinuation that I might be interested in somehow harassing you.

For the rest of you, my withdrawn comment had to do with whether we all break some laws sometimes and are willing to accept that we may be fined or otherwise punished, which I believe most of us are.

I can see that some people have intense feelings about this stuff. I have intense feelings for my dog. I felt sickened and frightened to see someone kick her in the guts as she tried to get past him, especially since that person was screaming and swearing and threatening me, too. I had no idea if he had a knife or a gun, and was going to flip out and kill us all, or maybe just stomp my best friend to death. I lay awake half the night wondering if she might have an internal injury and I would find her dead in the morning.

I was going to post a description of the guy, but I think maybe this has already gotten out of control.