AT&T and Apple don't care about West County [Archive]

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Joanne

08-17-2009, 10:42 AM

bodegahead

08-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Thanks for the info, that expalins what`s going on out here at the coast. Sure a lot of people wondering what`s going on with the ATT sevice around here. ATT was one of the first solid providers out here and it`s hard to believe they would cut this coverage area, it doesnt make sense. It`s not just Iphone service out here, it`s all att cellular. Maybe they are just working on somthing. Almost switched to att recently, sure glad I did`nt

Seems the only supplier to the Apple IPhone has turned off the power to some customers west of Sebastopol. Apple won't unlock the phone to allow us to get another service provider and AT&T just doesn't think there are enough of us to matter! A great example of how the "exclusive" agreement is really bad for the consumer.

Anyone got the straight scoop on what's really going on?

Joanne

bluwizz

08-17-2009, 10:30 PM

Seems the only supplier to the Apple IPhone has turned off the power to some customers west of Sebastopol. Apple won't unlock the phone to allow us to get another service provider and AT&T just doesn't think there are enough of us to matter! A great example of how the "exclusive" agreement is really bad for the consumer.

Anyone got the straight scoop on what's really going on?

Joanne

I too am with AT&T and am in west county, river area. Verizon just put a state of the art tower in in Guerneville on top of Summit, there by giving great coverage for Verizon and Sprint users.

I called AT&T and asked about them putting up a new tower in the river area, I even have a site for them to put it. I told them about how there are a bunch of people who are switching to Verizon and how AT&T is loosing customers. They were not concerned, saying that the cost to put in a new tower far outweighs the cost of loosing a hundred or more customers.

AT&T does not care about individual customers and the lack of quality of service that they provide(?) to us.

As to your Apple Iphone, you have it, and in this country most phones are locked to a single carrier, where as in other countries your phones can be used on any network because they are not locked. I know this only reinforces your argument of how this "exclusive (locked) service" is not user friendly. Verizon and Sprint have some great phones that are as good or better than the Ipone, but you already have spent the money for the one you have. Option ? Move to Santa Rosa?

Hotspring 44

08-17-2009, 10:35 PM

welcome to Republican style, free market!

I too am with AT&T and am in west county, river area. Verizon just put a state of the art tower in in Guerneville on top of Summit, there by giving great coverage for Verizon and Sprint users.

I called AT&T and asked about them putting up a new tower in the river area, I even have a site for them to put it. I told them about how there are a bunch of people who are switching to Verizon and how AT&T is loosing customers. They were not concerned, saying that the cost to put in a new tower far outweighs the cost of loosing a hundred or more customers.

AT&T does not care about individual customers and the lack of quality of service that they provide(?) to us.

As to your Apple Iphone, you have it, and in this country most phones are locked to a single carrier, where as in other countries your phones can be used on any network because they are not locked. I know this only reinforces your argument of how this "exclusive (locked) service" is not user friendly. Verizon and Sprint have some great phones that are as good or better than the Ipone, but you already have spent the money for the one you have. Option ? Move to Santa Rosa?

stable pony

08-18-2009, 08:42 AM

Thanks for the info, that expalins what`s going on out here at the coast. Sure a lot of people wondering what`s going on with the ATT sevice around here. ATT was one of the first solid providers out here and it`s hard to believe they would cut this coverage area, it doesnt make sense. It`s not just Iphone service out here, it`s all att cellular. Maybe they are just working on somthing. Almost switched to att recently, sure glad I did`nt

I live close to Freestone and suddenly last weekend my regular old cell phone had no network coverage. I did have coverage in Bodega (at the Big Event!) and also a mile or two up Bodega Hwy towards Sebastopol (on
Gold Ridge Rd.) Called AT&T and a very efficient young woman checked my address, assured me I should have coverage because of a tower in the area, did some kind of "update" on my phone (I had to power off/then back on), told me she was sending some kind of "order" so that the area would be checked for unknown problems and that someone would call me to check to see if things have improved. I won't be back in Freestone until next weekend but I'm curious to see what evolves!!!

Teresa BW

08-18-2009, 08:52 AM

It seems to be out around Freestone no matter what phone you have - my old cell phone was without coverage (AT&T) all last week. I upgraded to an iPhone yesterday, and still no coverage. (not why I upgraded, though)

Braggi

08-18-2009, 01:54 PM

I'm sorry to read this thread. I hope for better from my monopolies. (Ha!)

I recently picked up a used iPhone. I bought it to use it as an iPod Touch so I don't miss the fact I have no phone service. But ... there might come a day that I'd like to sign up with ATT and I'm sorry they won't be there to support me in west County. I hope someone from AT&T is reading up here and noticing that 10,000 people could be reading this.

It's not just about service where we live. It's about service where we go and almost everyone reading here drives out to the coast or to Occidental occasionally. We bought cell phones so we could use them in case of emergency and they're pretty damn useless if there's no coverage.

Hear that MetroPCS? Oh, sorry, going off topic here. It's just that I have MetroPCS and they don't cover much of anywhere.

-Jeff

Tecumseh525

08-18-2009, 04:35 PM

Just a slight detour here, but has anyone got service with Credo? They're the company that uses 1% of your charges goes to progressive nonprofits you vote on, your bill serves as a progressive newsletter and your phone company as a progressive lobby.

I'm thinking of going with them, but wonder about coverage not only in west county and such but wC and eC (west coast & east coast) overall. :hmmm:

Any reviews regarding Credo will be appreciated, thanks!

Elizabeth Lakin

08-18-2009, 05:53 PM

this happened a few years ago. at&t rents a tower in bodega. perhaps, they let that lease up.
i recall when this happened last time for folks to call in and ask them to re-rent that tower.
thanks...

Icssoma

08-19-2009, 12:21 AM

Credo uses Sprint. An earlier thread in this posting mentioned coverage in the river area improving. I have only been able to use Att near the Hacienda Bridge in Forestville. I have had decent ( the best coverage of cell phones) in the river area, and where I live in W. sebastopol out thru Freestone.
If anyone has Sprint, I would switch to credo in seconds. They have offers now that will buy out your contracts. I would love to support their wonderful work (you can list them on facebook, as well as donate), but I'd be happiest to have a carrier that supported social change & had decent coverage.
If in fact the earlier posting is accurate about Sprint in the Forestville area, and any one could see how Sprint (Creedo's carrier) did in the west Sebastopol, Freestone Area (which is shaky, but still best w. Att), I would run, and encourage every one I know to switch tomorrow.
I would be willing to test coverage areas, w. someone who has Sprint coverage. Credo (formerly Working Assets, not only supports social change non profits, but offers educational materials, dialogs, and lobbying efforts similar to True Majority, Move On, and other progressive networkers.)
If they had decent service I would love to campaign for people to switch over. It was always great paying my phone bill, and seeing all the options they offered. (free calls to congress people, congressional alerts & dialogs, gifting w/ voting from their customers, to many wonderful progressive causes, and much more.) That would be one major victory!
anyone want to do sprint/att tests?
best,
Susan Jan (icssoma)

Just a slight detour here, but has anyone got service with Credo? They're the company that uses 1% of your charges goes to progressive nonprofits you vote on, your bill serves as a progressive newsletter and your phone company as a progressive lobby.

I'm thinking of going with them, but wonder about coverage not only in west county and such but wC and eC (west coast & east coast) overall. :hmmm:

Any reviews regarding Credo will be appreciated, thanks!

bodegahead

08-19-2009, 08:19 AM

I just checked ouyt the Credo wbsite. Very cool. I would switch over if I knew it had as good as coverage as I am getting now (which is do able but lacking)
Now I have T-Mobile with excellent coverage in Bodega Bay and coverage from Bodega Bay to Sebastopol except for a few shrt dead zones near Bills Farm basket. Coverage on Bohemian hiway as far as Salmon Creek middle school then dead all the way north. No service on hwy 1 north of Bodega Bay and no service west of Guernville on 116.
I was suprised to here from my sister and another source that verizon is now working in Occidental, notorius for bo service and resistance to service.

Credo uses Sprint. An earlier thread in this posting mentioned coverage in the river area improving. I have only been able to use Att near the Hacienda Bridge in Forestville. I have had decent ( the best coverage of cell phones) in the river area, and where I live in W. sebastopol out thru Freestone.
If anyone has Sprint, I would switch to credo in seconds. They have offers now that will buy out your contracts. I would love to support their wonderful work (you can list them on facebook, as well as donate), but I'd be happiest to have a carrier that supported social change & had decent coverage.
If in fact the earlier posting is accurate about Sprint in the Forestville area, and any one could see how Sprint (Creedo's carrier) did in the west Sebastopol, Freestone Area (which is shaky, but still best w. Att), I would run, and encourage every one I know to switch tomorrow.
I would be willing to test coverage areas, w. someone who has Sprint coverage. Credo (formerly Working Assets, not only supports social change non profits, but offers educational materials, dialogs, and lobbying efforts similar to True Majority, Move On, and other progressive networkers.)
If they had decent service I would love to campaign for people to switch over. It was always great paying my phone bill, and seeing all the options they offered. (free calls to congress people, congressional alerts & dialogs, gifting w/ voting from their customers, to many wonderful progressive causes, and much more.) That would be one major victory!
anyone want to do sprint/att tests?
best,
Susan Jan (icssoma)

Barry

08-20-2009, 12:59 PM

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif

IPhone anger flares in Freestone over AT&T outage

By ROBERT DIGITALE ([email protected])
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Published: Thursday, August 20, 2009 at 11:29 a.m.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SR&Date=20090820&Category=ARTICLES&ArtNo=908209973&Ref=AR&MaxW=250&border=0
JOHN BURGESS/The Press Democrat
Jan Heumann takes her dog Topper for a ride
while feeding the horses on her Freestone farm.
Heumann's AT&T mobile service was discontinued,
so she purchased a T-Mobile phone in case of
injuries or emergencies involving the horses.

AT&T says it is working to improve its Sonoma County cellular network, but Freestone residents say a recent change cut off their phone service, including some with pricey iPhones.

The problem arose this month when the phone company stopped allowing customers to roam on a competitor’s cellular network. As a result, residents and winery workers around the village west of Sebastopol say their AT&T cell phones can’t make any calls or, at best, get spotty reception.

Freestone resident Jan Heumann said this spring she purchased an Apple laptop computer specifically to work with her new iPhone. She said she felt confident in doing so because has had received “exceptional” cellular service from AT&T in recent years and has come to rely on it for her safety when working around her ranch of nearly 40 acres.

If the phone company won’t bring back its former level of service, Heumann said, “then you need to remunerate me for this phone I can’t use.”

Along with residential users, Freestone Vineyards has at least 10 company cell phones that use AT&T’s network, as do phones owned personally by workers, said vineyard manager Greg Cannon.

“We’ve come to rely heavily on that phone use out here, if nothing else for emergency purposes,” said Cannon. He said the AT&T service now “is not reliable at all” and “is beginning to frustrate” some of the workers.

The company’s vineyards are in remote areas without regular telephone service, he said.

The residents said the service went out without notice two weeks ago. They spoke with AT&T customer relations representatives and heard various explanations. Some were told the change came about because the company stopped using a competitor’s network or a shared cellular tower.

“I think they should correct it and get a tower installed as quickly as possible,” said Jack Cleary, an AT&T customer who has homes in both Freestone and San Francisco.

“If we would have known this was going to happen, we never would have got iPhones,” said Freestone resident Joanne Davey.

Davey said in May her partner, John Thompson, and she paid over $1,200 to purchase and activate two iPhones. The phones are programmed for use only with AT&T’s cellular network.

AT&T spokesman John Britton said Wednesday that the company’s cellular customers around Freestone for years were roaming for free on the T-Mobile network. “That arrangement ended,” he said.

Along with Freestone, areas affected by the change included Occidental, Sebastopol and Bennett Valley in Santa Rosa.

Bennett Valley is getting a new cell tower, he said, and “we’re going to have great service by the end of the year.”

Of the change, Britton said, “the vast majority of our customers in the area have not been affected.”

In regard to Freestone, he said, “we’re going to work with customers, and we’re going to call those customers and we’re going to work hard to satisfy them.”

However, the company has no plans to renegotiate the roaming feature with T-Mobile or to build its own tower in the area, he said. He estimated that it would take at least two years to design and build a tower.

On Wednesday, Heumann obtained month-to-month phone service from T-Mobile. “I’ve got five bars,” she said, happy once more to be able to contact emergency services, if needed, while working outside on her ranch.

Nonetheless, she said, “I am stuck with a very expensive phone that I can’t use.”

Sylph

08-20-2009, 04:42 PM

After years and years with AT&T and no service out here in Occidental (and half my commute home after crossing 116), I finally switched to Verizon.
I drive home late at night and my cell would have been no help if I'd had car trouble. Friends routinely left messages on my cell and I didn't even know about them until I was back "in town".
I went through Costco, and Costco covered the Verizon sign-on fees. Geno, there at Costco, made the calls for me and got me out of my At&T contract due to poor coverage. Geno was wonderful!:heart:
What do you know...my nifty new phone that is nicer than my old one works here at the house and most of the way home. (Still one small dead spot) Before this, my phone only worked if I took a long walk up the nearest tall hill.
I could get rid of my land line now and save a bunch of money, but I'll probably keep it for now.

I wish I'd made this change a long time ago!

:

bodegahead

08-20-2009, 06:31 PM

I just switched to ATT for my DSL, landline and TV (kept my t mobile mobil)because they are giving me a better deal than Comcast and within 6 weeks I had 300$ worth of rebate checks from ATT in my mail. Had barely paid my first months bill yet they sent me cash rebates. 300$!!!
It~s really bad that I was actually starting to think good things about ATT and then to hear this bul****it they are pulling.
Hopefully if enough speak up they will reconsider, if not they are real jerks. I sure sympathize with those that recently purchased iphones. You should get your money back. Did they tell you they were about to cut service? No.
I know a few kids out that neck of the woods that spent their allowences on Iphones that worked when they bought them that no longer work. Stealing candy from kids ATT, yeah, way to go. Better call in a good damage control publicity spin doctor on this one. And how much are they going to pay for that?

stable pony

08-26-2009, 08:55 AM

Maybe it's time to give up hope with AT&T and West County, but I spoke to someone there this weekend at length about the situation (customer service phone reps always seem to be helpful, patient, sympathetic) and in the end she filed some kind of "request for service" form and said that if enough people call in and file, maybe the powers will change their minds. I suggest being friendly and patient during the phone call to get the best results. I did however, make it clear that if nothing changes, I will drop my cell phone, home phone and internet service immediately and absolutely refuse to pay any fees for breaking contract....and I will badmouth AT&T forevermore:wink:.

justme

08-26-2009, 08:24 PM

:kneel:

Braggi

08-26-2009, 09:37 PM

I've been reading along on this thread feeling a lot of mixed emotions. Most here know I'm an Apple fanatic. I've owned a Macintosh since April of 1984, that machine being one of the first to appear in southern California. For the most part I've been treated very well by Apple and have encouraged many hundreds of people to purchase Apple products. Apple for years has been the number one computer company in terms of customer service. No one disputes this.

And now Apple has teamed up with an evil empire of sorts. The company we call AT&T (which is actually SBC, don't be fooled) has a nightmarish reputation for customer service. I've wanted an iPhone all along but I did not want a contract with AT&T. I recently purchased a used iPhone and I have no phone company service so I'm using it as an iPod Touch which is satisfying in some ways but it would be nice to have phone service on it.

After reading this thread who would want AT&T since they seem to have no loyalty to their customers? And the title of this thread damns Apple right along with the real bad guys in this story. I don't like that.

I propose that we, as a group of current, former and potential iPhone users approach the computer company with the number one ranking for customer service and ask them to intervene on our behalf. Is anybody with me? I also own a few shares of Apple stock so perhaps my signature on a letter would carry a smidge more weight. Perhaps we ought to schedule a Waccobb party at the local Apple Store. Or at least send a few emissaries to meet with the manager there.

If this sounds like a good project and perhaps more forceful than a call to AT&T let me know. We can organize right here on this thread.

In solidarity,

-Jeff

Icssoma

08-27-2009, 02:49 PM

great idea. so good to hear positive ideas for action. so sad that there are so many things to work on.
my best,

sj

I've been reading along on this thread feeling a lot of mixed emotions. Most here know I'm an Apple fanatic. I've owned a Macintosh since April of 1984, that machine being one of the first to appear in southern California. For the most part I've been treated very well by Apple and have encouraged many hundreds of people to purchase Apple products. Apple for years has been the number one computer company in terms of customer service. No one disputes this.

And now Apple has teamed up with an evil empire of sorts. The company we call AT&T (which is actually SBC, don't be fooled) has a nightmarish reputation for customer service. I've wanted an iPhone all along but I did not want a contract with AT&T. I recently purchased a used iPhone and I have no phone company service so I'm using it as an iPod Touch which is satisfying in some ways but it would be nice to have phone service on it.

After reading this thread who would want AT&T since they seem to have no loyalty to their customers? And the title of this thread damns Apple right along with the real bad guys in this story. I don't like that.

I propose that we, as a group of current, former and potential iPhone users approach the computer company with the number one ranking for customer service and ask them to intervene on our behalf. Is anybody with me? I also own a few shares of Apple stock so perhaps my signature on a letter would carry a smidge more weight. Perhaps we ought to schedule a Waccobb party at the local Apple Store. Or at least send a few emissaries to meet with the manager there.

If this sounds like a good project and perhaps more forceful than a call to AT&T let me know. We can organize right here on this thread.

In solidarity,

-Jeff

zsiegel

08-27-2009, 04:30 PM

I have been fighting with At&t for 3 weeks now about this issue - I am another newly upgraded (last 6 months) IPhone user who has also been burned by this. I have heard 2 different things about the now non-existant service. My brother (who lives at the same property that I do) was told that the FCC told AT&T that they had too many towers, and that they had to turn some of them off. With not so many users out here, we were the first to go. When they investigated my account (after 2 weeks of having no service) they told me something totally different which was that the West County has always operated in a partner network with TMobile and TMobile cut their contract with AT&T.

Now I'm in arguments with them over my $135 early termination fee which I don't feel that I am responsible for since the terms and conditions on my account state that if they are going to change service area they must notify the customers within 30days of this change... however, because I have an IPhone, they are telling me there are some sort of special restrictions with this and that I am still responsible for this fee EVEN THOUGH my contract says something different.

I have spent literally 20 to 30 hours with them on the phone in the last 3 weeks and have had a horrible experience feeling like they don't care about me or have any appreciation for my business.

After finally being pushed to the edge and cancelling my service last weekend I also got a call from AT&T today on my work line telling me that they would "consider" waiving the early termination fee if I simply sent back my IPhone to them with no refund on the IPhone either. Um... thank you for your "consideration" AT&T, but that phone cost me $200!

Jeff - I commend your idea to approach apple about their customer service and I might be interested in helping with that, but I am so miffed by their treatment of me that I'm more interested in something like small claims court and/or a class action lawsuit - especially if there are several people in this area feeling this same burn.

I will now never, ever get service again with AT&T nor will I ever, ever buy a Mac computer, also having before been a previously devout believer of their company because this experience has left such a bad taste in my mouth.

And by the way - I switched providers to TMobile, pleasant company, great new phone and I get stellar service - better than I ever got with AT&T.

Seems the only supplier to the Apple IPhone has turned off the power to some customers west of Sebastopol. Apple won't unlock the phone to allow us to get another service provider and AT&T just doesn't think there are enough of us to matter! A great example of how the "exclusive" agreement is really bad for the consumer.

Anyone got the straight scoop on what's really going on?

Joanne

gari.gg.

08-27-2009, 06:34 PM

Why would anybody think that the big companies care enough to take care of ever single one of their customers. Dah! Large companies exist because enough people get what they want- cheap prices. They make their money from the masses, not the individual. Small business can provide better individual service, but not the price reductions that get the masses. You have to pay for good service.

oliviathunderkitty

08-27-2009, 10:20 PM

I hope I am not repeating anything that has been posted here. I just want to make a quick point. Apple's contract with AT&T is about to expire--the date is either late this year or early 2010. Speculation--not unfounded--is that the iphone will no longer be anchored to AT&T. I would support looking into this before moving forward with anything else--the solution may already be in the works.

And let me add my personal experience. I originally had Verizon and then something happened, perhaps similar to what is going on with AT&T in Freestone, and I could no longer get service at my home in west Sebastopol. I heard then that it had to do with leases and such. The main reason I had a cell phone was because service went out so often here and I needed to be in contact with certain clients and family members by phone during outages. I tested several services and the only reception I got here was through Cingular. Two months after I signed a two year contract, AT&T purchased the company so I was stuck. A few months later, I was given an iphone. I couldn't be happier. I love it and I had hated every phone I had before it. And it still works at my house.

I am going to guess that there was nothing in Apple's contract with AT&T that covered what AT&T has done recently. But maybe the solution will come when this fantastic phone--it's just a tiny Mac, i.e., it thinks like a Mac, YAY!!!!--is untied.

I've been reading along on this thread feeling a lot of mixed emotions. Most here know I'm an Apple fanatic. I've owned a Macintosh since April of 1984, that machine being one of the first to appear in southern California. For the most part I've been treated very well by Apple and have encouraged many hundreds of people to purchase Apple products. Apple for years has been the number one computer company in terms of customer service. No one disputes this.

And now Apple has teamed up with an evil empire of sorts. The company we call AT&T (which is actually SBC, don't be fooled) has a nightmarish reputation for customer service. I've wanted an iPhone all along but I did not want a contract with AT&T. I recently purchased a used iPhone and I have no phone company service so I'm using it as an iPod Touch which is satisfying in some ways but it would be nice to have phone service on it.

After reading this thread who would want AT&T since they seem to have no loyalty to their customers? And the title of this thread damns Apple right along with the real bad guys in this story. I don't like that.

I propose that we, as a group of current, former and potential iPhone users approach the computer company with the number one ranking for customer service and ask them to intervene on our behalf. Is anybody with me? I also own a few shares of Apple stock so perhaps my signature on a letter would carry a smidge more weight. Perhaps we ought to schedule a Waccobb party at the local Apple Store. Or at least send a few emissaries to meet with the manager there.

If this sounds like a good project and perhaps more forceful than a call to AT&T let me know. We can organize right here on this thread.

In solidarity,

-Jeff

Teresa BW

08-28-2009, 07:48 AM

Speaking of all of this.... (bold and underline my emphasis) -- Teresa

FCC inquiries could spawn new wireless regulations
By JOELLE TESSLER (AP) – 17 hours ago

WASHINGTON — The Federal Communications Commission is taking a closer look at the practices of the wireless industry, potentially the first step toward more regulations intended to push down prices and increase choices for consumers.

At its first meeting with all five commissioners seated since the inauguration of President Barack Obama, the FCC voted unanimously Thursday to open an inquiry into the state of competition in the wireless industry. The FCC also wants to explore factors that encourage innovation and investment in wireless.

The FCC inquiries are information-gathering exercises and it is too soon to know where they will lead. But the agency faces mounting pressure from public interest groups and Congress to investigate common business practices in a market dominated by four national carriers, including AT&T Inc. and Verizon Wireless.

These examinations are likely to look at everything from spectrum auction rules to roaming obligations to handset exclusivity deals, such as AT&T Inc.'s contract with Apple Inc. to serve as the sole U.S. carrier for the iPhone. The FCC is also looking into expanding so-called "truth-in-billing" rules, which require phone companies to clearly describe charges on consumer bills.

"It is essential that the Commission develop policies that encourage a new generation of innovators, working with new tools, on new platforms, and having an extraordinary impact on our economy and society," said Julius Genachowski, who took over as FCC chairman at the end of June.
The Senate and House have been probing the wireless business as well, holding hearings on such topics as handset exclusivity and text messaging rates.

In July, Herb Kohl, D-Wis., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights, sent letters to Genachowski and Christine Varney, the new head of the antitrust division at the Justice Department, urging them to take action to promote competition in the wireless industry.

The FCC has already sent a strong signal that it intends to step in when it sees potential problems in the industry. Last month, the agency sent letters to Apple, AT&T and Google Inc. asking why Google's Voice App messaging service has not been approved for use on the iPhone.
Michael Scurato, a third-year law student at Georgetown University, is one wireless customer who welcomes more oversight of the industry.

Scurato switched from Verizon Wireless to AT&T because he wanted an iPhone. But once he was locked into a contract with AT&T, he lamented the network holes he experienced on his weekly drives to see his wife in Pennsylvania. Now he would like to use Skype's Internet calling service and the SlingPlayer Mobile application, which redirects TV signals to the device. But Apple limits his ability to use those programs because it lets them run only when the device is connected to a Wi-Fi hot spot rather than AT&T's cellular network.

Joel Kelsey, a policy analyst at Consumers Union, said regulators will have to consider two main issues: The high switching costs that lock consumers into lengthy contracts, and the practices that make it difficult for smaller rivals to unseat the industry heavyweights. Kelsey would like to see the FCC ban exclusive handset deals.

Genachowski has already said he wants to examine whether such deals are unfair to rural customers who live in places not served by the big wireless companies. With the issue in the spotlight, the industry has started to change its behavior. Verizon Wireless told several top lawmakers last month that it would limit future handset exclusivity deals to six months, letting carriers with up to 500,000 subscribers sell its handsets after that period.

The FCC is also looking at roaming, which lets wireless carriers use competitors' voice networks in places where they do not offer their own service.

Under an "in-market" exception to these rules, wireless carriers can deny roaming agreements to rivals in places where those rivals already own wireless spectrum but have not built out networks. Kelsey and other consumer advocates would like the exception lifted.

AT&T and Verizon Wireless counter that after investing billions of dollars in their networks, they should not be forced to share their systems with competitors that have not made such investments.

Verizon said last month, however, that it would support a rule requiring in-market roaming agreements that last no more than two years.

Another FCC inquiry is likely to focus on the "special access regulations" that guarantee carriers access to the vital back-haul lines that connect wireless towers to broader telecommunications networks. Independent carriers argue that they pay excessive prices for this access because much of the critical network infrastructure is owned by landline telephone companies such as AT&T and Verizon, which also have wireless arms.

Christopher Guttman-McCabe, vice president of regulatory affairs for CTIA-The Wireless Association, said the industry welcomes the FCC inquiries as a chance to educate policymakers on how competitive the wireless industry is. After all, he said, while much of the attention has focused on the four largest carriers, there are many smaller companies, such as Leap Wireless International Inc. and MetroPCS Communications Inc.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Braggi

08-28-2009, 10:06 AM

... I am going to guess that there was nothing in Apple's contract with AT&T that covered what AT&T has done recently. But maybe the solution will come when this fantastic phone--it's just a tiny Mac, i.e., it thinks like a Mac, YAY!!!!--is untied.

The greatest crime Apple committed in all this is giving AT&T exclusivity in the first place. It appears that will change soon, but not before AT&T giving Apple a black eye as a going away present.

Blaming Apple for the crimes of AT&T is kinda lame especially when it amounts to a temporary inconvenience. We can think bigger than that.

I certainly do understand that people are pissed. I'm pissed too and it didn't even really happen to me.

-Jeff

oliviathunderkitty

08-28-2009, 10:29 AM

I'm not exactly sure why this gives Apple a black eye. Sure, it is an inconvenience and infuriating but Apple is not the service provider. Apple needed a way to launch the iphone and having one provider was the way they went about it. It was an efficient way to launch.

When I compare my experience with the iphone and AT&T with my previous phones and previous phone companies, it is far better in absolutely every way. I was locked into Verizon for more than a year after I could no longer get service at my house. I was locked into contracts after phones broke and could not be replaced at a rate lower than full retail. After I cancelled Verizon service I continued to be billed at my full rate for MONTHS. It took hours and hours of phone calls and, finally, the threat of a law suit to get the bills to stop and to get a refund for the automatic charges they put on my credit card. I could go back further to difficulties with Sprint but, lucky for me, I've forgotten most of those details.

It seems to me that phone servicer providers, cellular and otherwise, all suck in one way or another. Apple's decision to go with AT&T for its launch is no better and no worse than if it had gone with another provider. I'm simply grateful that the iphone has never made me want to stand on it with a jackhammer, as all my previous phones did.

The greatest crime Apple committed in all this is giving AT&T exclusivity in the first place. It appears that will change soon, but not before AT&T giving Apple a black eye as a going away present.

Blaming Apple for the crimes of AT&T is kinda lame especially when it amounts to a temporary inconvenience. We can think bigger than that.

I certainly do understand that people are pissed. I'm pissed too and it didn't even really happen to me.

-Jeff

Califoon

09-20-2009, 01:13 PM

Having followed this thread with interest for a while I thought you would all like to hear the conversation I overheard last week between Mrs Foon and AT&T. I think she provides a blueprint for change here and brings it back down to the basic problem of us all paying for coverage we're no longer receiving. Mrs Foon has a black belt in marketing and customer service, by the way :thumbsup:

I'll let her tell you about it:

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="address"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><style>  </style> To all iPhone users with AT&T cell phone service:
At the beginning of August, I suddenly noticed difficulty in using my cell phone at my <st1:place>Sebastopol</st1:place> home, located near the intersection of Highway 116 and <st1:street><st1:address>Occidental Road</st1:address></st1:street>. Voice quality had become extremely poor and I had many dropped calls. Sometimes, I would find that a message was received when my cell phone was sitting on my table and had never once rung. Thinking it might be the occasional ‘sun spot’ or other interference that sometimes occurs, I tolerated it for 6 weeks. The time to act came when voicemail messages began being delayed for up to 5 days at a time. Since I use my phone for business as an independent consultant, this situation quickly became untenable.
<o:p> </o:p>
I called AT&T on 9/10 to report the issue of delayed messages and voice quality. At that time, they said that there was no problem they could ascertain, and that AT&T would follow up again in a week to see if I had further problems. When the call back came on 9/17, I reported that there were no delayed messages that I was aware of, but that the dropped calls and poor voice quality continued to be significant problems. I spoke to Katie, who transferred me to Rita Cartagena in tech support, only because I had told her how critical my cell phone was to operating my business. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Rita informed me that my local cell tower had discontinued AT&T service on August 6<sup>th</sup>. I was outraged that this would have taken place without my being notified in advance that this was going to happen. Rita said that only a few customers were affected. I insisted on speaking to someone who could solve my problem.
<o:p> </o:p>
Mike Compton in tech support called me back and he offered to ‘let me out of my contract’ with AT&T and buy back my iPhone phone. At this point, I LOUDLY unleashed the full extent of my FURY on Mike, while assuring him that it was not intended personally towards him, but rather my anger is for AT&T who is operating in a very unethical, deceitful and dishonest manner. Mike politely offered again to buy back my iPhone and ‘let me out of my AT&T contract.’ I asked to speak to the VP of Customer Service and Mike informed me that these policies have come from this VP’s office. I insisted on speaking to his boss, and Mike politely said someone would call me within 48 hours.
<o:p> </o:p>
The unfortunate manager who had to make this next call to me on 9/18 was René Bartak. Here’s how this conversation went:
<o:p> </o:p>
René: (politely): Nothing can be done in your situation. AT&T had stopped their sharing of your local cell tower due to ‘good business practices.’
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES? YOU MEAN YOUR CORPORATE PROFITS? YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO SHARE THIS TOWER IF YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. YOU HAVE PROMPTLY AND HAPPILY COLLECTED MY VERY LARGE SERVICE FEES FOR 2 MONTHS AND HAVE NOT PROVIDED THE SERVICE I PAID FOR.
<o:p> </o:p>
René: We will credit your last 2 months of service, buy back your iPhone and let you out of your contract.
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: <st1:street><st1:address>NO WAY</st1:address></st1:street>!! NO! UNACCEPTABLE, UNACCEPTABLE! Your company is unethical, deceitful and dishonest. You have charged me for service you didn’t provide and YOU KNEW THIS and STILL CHARGED ME!
<o:p> </o:p>
René: I am an honest person.

Me: I do not doubt your personal honesty, but you work for A DISHONEST COMPANY. I will not tolerate this situation, NOT ACCEPTABLE! YOU KNEW IN ADVANCE that you were causing a service outage for our area and DID NOT DISCLOSE this to us. You let me stew in this situation for 6 WEEKS before the problem became SO BAD and SO PREVALENT that I HAD TO CALL YOU.
<o:p> </o:p>
René: We are now calling everyone who reported problems.
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: WRONG, you did not call me, I CALLED YOU.
<o:p> </o:p>
René: Only a few people have called.
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: That’s because you don’t pass on all the calls you get on this issue to tech support. YOU KNEW you had affected our service, you did not disclose this and yet you continued to charge me for this service you did not provide. YOU KNEW IT ALL ALONG!! UNACCEPTABLE. DISHONEST! DECEITFUL! AT&T had better not DARE to charge me one more dime until service is restored.
<o:p> </o:p>
René: You know, when I go to my cabin in the mountains, I don’t have cell phone coverage.
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: When I travel to the mountains, I don’t necessarily expect to have coverage there either. I DO expect to have it in my home, where I pay for this coverage, where I lived when I signed up for this coverage, and where I always had coverage until August 6th. AT&T had better not DARE to charge me ONE MORE DIME until service is restored.
<o:p> </o:p>
Rene: We can’t do that. So you want to cancel your AT&T service? We will not have a new tower in your area for at least 2 years.
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: NO!!! UNACCEPTABLE. I will NOT cancel my AT&T service. You could still share this tower if you were willing to pay to do so. You can either unlock my phone or provide the coverage you charge me for. I WILL NOT give up my iPhone.
<o:p> </o:p>
René: Apple will not allow the phone to be unlocked.
<o:p> </o:p>
Me: I WILL NOT HAVE YOU DICTATE TO ME WHAT KIND OF PHONE I MAY USE. You can fix this, you can do anything you choose to. This is all about money, profits for AT&T. Please have your boss call me as this is UNETHICAL, DISHONEST AND DECEITFUL and I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT.
<o:p> </o:p>
I am awaiting that call. I have also emailed Apple to report this situation and am awaiting their response.
<o:p> </o:p>
If you have been affected in a similar way, here’s what to do:
<o:p> </o:p>
·The direct number of tech support is 877-998-5175. Call them and insist that they either restore our tower or unlock our iPhones.
·Insist on a refund for the pasts 2 months of service charges.
·Insist on speaking to the boss of whomever you speak to.
·Call or email Apple to report this situation and insist that they unlock your phone.
<o:p> </o:p>
All the AT&T staff members with whom I have spoken have been extremely polite, even sympathetic, in their responses. However, their ‘solutions’ are NOT acceptable to me and I have let them know this, loudly and repeatedly. I refuse to let them dictate what hardware I use, as I do love my iPhone – when it works. They say that only a small number of us have been affected. I believe that they have only heard from a small number of us, so if you have been affected in a similar way, please join the effort to make our voices heard.

RussianRiverRattina

09-21-2009, 11:12 PM

But ... honestly, why would any of us EXPECT corporate big-wigs like AT&T & Apple to "care" about West County? Please.

Califoon

09-22-2009, 01:31 PM

RRTina, Although I share your tired distrust of large entities, I think you miss the point. They DON'T care about us - even though we still pay our bills. What they DO care about however is their public image. Public perception is part of what drives stock prices and brand value. The last thing they want is for people to call them on dishonest and deceitful business practices in public, even though they clearly indulge in such, in the quest for profits. They withdrew services without notification and without lowering the price to anyone.

What we got from this approach was an immediate reversal of charges on bills since August. I don't care if they care or not, they are being somewhat responsive, even hinting that they may give us a new gadget to boost signal strength in a local area

see it here (https://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/3gmicrocell/) You'll notice that it's not available in our zip code at this point...

As in dealing with government, active participation is required to get what you want. I just wanted to share the language that I think they WILL respond to, and I was hoping that folks aren't so worn down that they can't speak up for themselves. A unified front using this language could work wonders.

Thanks, Cal

But ... honestly, why would any of us EXPECT corporate big-wigs like AT&T & Apple to "care" about West County? Please.

RussianRiverRattina

09-22-2009, 11:07 PM

Thanks for your email, Cal.

Dang! I totally FORGOT! My personal disenchantment with Barack Obama combined with my family's desperate struggle to stay afloat have made me self-serving & cynical. I used to think, "Yes, you can," but now think, "Um, maybe I can, maybe not, I'm just too tired to think this through."

Thanks for reminding me that when a few informed, determined, hard-working & cohesive folks work together towards a good cause, we actually CAN change things for the better. Not everything & not all at once, but, still, better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

I'm grateful to you for your work (& that of your colleagues) & vision of possibilities & change.

-- EAP

RRTina, Although I share your tired distrust of large entities, I think you miss the point. They DON'T care about us - even though we still pay our bills. What they DO care about however is their public image. Public perception is part of what drives stock prices and brand value. The last thing they want is for people to call them on dishonest and deceitful business practices in public, even though they clearly indulge in such, in the quest for profits. They withdrew services without notification and without lowering the price to anyone.

What we got from this approach was an immediate reversal of charges on bills since August. I don't care if they care or not, they are being somewhat responsive, even hinting that they may give us a new gadget to boost signal strength in a local area

see it here (https://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/3gmicrocell/) You'll notice that it's not available in our zip code at this point...

As in dealing with government, active participation is required to get what you want. I just wanted to share the language that I think they WILL respond to, and I was hoping that folks aren't so worn down that they can't speak up for themselves. A unified front using this language could work wonders.

Thanks, Cal

Imagery

09-28-2009, 12:36 AM

Not that I'm defending AT&T in this situation in the least...

...because I'm one of the iPhone customers, but I can tell you why it takes two years to get a cell phone tower in place.

Just ask Sonic.net why they weren't allowed to put Wi-Fi in downtown Sebastopol...

...and I'm certain you'll be able to correlate the two. Too many NIMBY's will raise too many problems, and AT&T will use that as an excuse why they can't fill the needs of the few...

Verizon has a great network in place, and I'd switch to their service if they had a way of connecting with the iPhone.

Califoon

09-28-2009, 10:45 AM

Once again, I'm not trying to get any certain performance from AT&T other than to demand that they not charge me for services they have withdrawn. They are compliant to that demand when approached and cornered on the topic of honest business practice, as I outlined. We're quite happy with our settlement. :wink:

This has nothing to do with NIMBYs or anything else requiring coordination of the fractured public at large. This is about individual initiative on behalf of the individual. self help.

BTW- the gadget I mentioned that they're working on actually connects to your local network (if any) and sends cell traffic over the net instead of requiring a new tower. This is a major development and is being tested back east. said to cover 5000 sq ft.

Mitcho LeGreat

10-01-2009, 07:38 PM

I just got off the Phone ( a good hour and a half) with AT&T. They no longer are using a tower in Sebastopol - a deal with T-mobile ( I think it was t-mobile but I was so angry I stopped listening for a momonet) is no longer in effect.. and I no longer get iPhone service in my home. Just two months after signing a two year contract with them. They KNEW this was coming, too.

I am being told - Oh, we're sorry - basically "tough shit" - because we have the legal right to have you sign up for a two year contract, and charge you $100.00 a month and them cancel your services ANYTIME WE WANT because we are big and powerful. But since I called, they will gave me the "privilege" of canceling my account with them with out extra fees. This smacks of criminally dishonest business practices.

So they can take away services any time they wish? Without any notification to their customers? And no legal recourse on our part? I think not...

HOW DARE THEY! So now I have a new iPhone that does not work and a $100.00 monthly bill. This is a sick abuse of power and I am furious. Does Apple know about this???? And don't they receive tax dollars from me? Lots of government kickbacks to support their monopoly. Don't they technically work for me? I want the CEO NOW! (Gosh, It is times like this that I really could use a personal secretary...)

I now KNOW others in Sebastopol are in the same situation. If enough people are angry about this (as each complaint gets a "form") they will fix the situation. Until then, they do not care that they have cut off services to my town.

Please call them at 1-800-331-0500 (or 611 from you iPhone - but don't come over here to do it..) And you can also tell them Mitcho is really pissed off and wants the services he is paying for.

AquaGyrl

10-02-2009, 09:59 AM

Since the AT&T contract with Apple is scheduled to end in 2010 I recommend making a HUGE stink about the problem directly with Apple - who has the power remedy the problem and might just do that if they get enough flack. I shattered the screen on my iPhone (it still works, though) and have not taken advantage of AT&T's iPhone upgrade pricing because they require a 2-year contract with them. I'd rather wait and see what Apple decides in 2010. If they continue with AT&T then I'll ditch my phone and explore other smartphone options. AT&T sucks.

Hot Compost

10-02-2009, 01:27 PM

i suggest using the Apple message board at Yahoo Finance.

AAPL: Message Board for Apple Inc. - Yahoo! Finance (https://messages.finance.yahoo.com/mb/AAPL)

i have used this to get help from HP when i returned some paperwork for a scanner warranty issue using the wrong envelope. i had shipped them back a scanner but they were continuing to bill me for it.

i ended up being assigned an assistant in the CEO's office, the email name was "Carly Fiorina external email", something like that.

it's basically a 'social engineering situation', i.e. if you have all your facts in order, are polite, write in a witty and/or well-spoken manner, and hammer away mercilessly as appropriate, you are almost guaranteed to get the result you seek.

since the board is read by Apple investors, you would sort of need to "play" to that audience.

if you closed with something like, "if you guys would fix this, that would be Insanely Great", that might be helpful. 'Insanely Great' is a Steve Jobs-ism that he used during the 1980's. i'm not sure if he still talks that way. but there are people inside Apple who can fix this with one phone call or email.

Rob

10-02-2009, 11:51 PM

AT&T service has stopped working in Guerneville. It hasn't worked for several hours. They said it should be up and running 10-3. Let's hope so.

Califoon

10-05-2009, 07:59 AM

See previous thread- apple/at&t don't care about- You have to work your way up the phone ladder to tech support to get results. They know they shouldn't be charging us and can be made to admit it. We got results.

hollandsutton

10-05-2009, 10:58 PM

Same story: I own an iphone and NO LONGER get AT&T service. I used to.
Complaints to customer service got me a little money back on my bill but they refuse to let me out of my contract. The customer service rep promised to call me every month to discuss. I got a "case" number and they will look in to it.
I'm annoyed and furious and it is dishonest. I'm not done with them.

Califoon

10-06-2009, 07:38 AM

You have to work your way up the chain. Demand to talk to the boss every step of the way. The "director of customer experience" will get things done for you if you are persistent.

see Re: AT&T and Apple don't care about West County #25

Same story: I own an iphone and NO LONGER get AT&T service. I used to.
Complaints to customer service got me a little money back on my bill but they refuse to let me out of my contract. The customer service rep promised to call me every month to discuss. I got a "case" number and they will look in to it.
I'm annoyed and furious and it is dishonest. I'm not done with them.

hollandsutton

10-06-2009, 07:48 AM

I will eat my way up the food chain for sure. Thanks.