someguy
07-22-2009, 11:42 AM
Hi Tom,
You wrote "Perhaps they could reconsider and change the sign to "turn off the ringer on your electronic device and go outside for conversations". That's probably what they mean anyway..."
And this points strongly to my point. Whether or not they have the right to limit who may have a conversation in the library based on their being on a cell phone, they absolutely have no right to even ask me to turn off the device.
It is not up to me to navigate what people 'really' mean when they ask to restrict my basic human rights.
I think even asking me to turn off the ringer, without asking loud people to also be quiet, is legally suspect.
I am making the case that our rights to be in this new place are basic rights, and as such require that the actions of the state which limit those rights are subject to the 'Strict Scrutiny' Constitutional Standard.
Wanting to create a quiet space is potentially a reasonable goal. And having phones ringing seems like at least a minor intrusion on that goal.
OTOH, the library is currently home to many many conversations. And so this restriction specifically allows you, for example, to look at books with your friends and lovers and to work quietly together, but it prohibits me from doing the same thing based solely on my relationships being in this other space.
It does seem true that many people are more disturbed by someone talking on a cell phone than two people having an equally loud conversation face to face.
But I argue that this reflects a specific prejudice that many people have against the online place. We are bothered to see someone talking apparently 'to themselves.'
This is perhaps similar to the way many people, even loving kind people, 'tense up' a bit when they see a gay couple in public holding hands or being appropriately publicly affectionate.
It may be reasonable to have an absolutely silent library, but that is not what we have. We have a library where teenagers play over books - mostly doing good things in my personal view - but I can not have a quiet conversation asking my lover and professional colleagues about books.
Cheers,
Rich
My lover told me to tell you to "shut the f*ck up."
You wrote "Perhaps they could reconsider and change the sign to "turn off the ringer on your electronic device and go outside for conversations". That's probably what they mean anyway..."
And this points strongly to my point. Whether or not they have the right to limit who may have a conversation in the library based on their being on a cell phone, they absolutely have no right to even ask me to turn off the device.
It is not up to me to navigate what people 'really' mean when they ask to restrict my basic human rights.
I think even asking me to turn off the ringer, without asking loud people to also be quiet, is legally suspect.
I am making the case that our rights to be in this new place are basic rights, and as such require that the actions of the state which limit those rights are subject to the 'Strict Scrutiny' Constitutional Standard.
Wanting to create a quiet space is potentially a reasonable goal. And having phones ringing seems like at least a minor intrusion on that goal.
OTOH, the library is currently home to many many conversations. And so this restriction specifically allows you, for example, to look at books with your friends and lovers and to work quietly together, but it prohibits me from doing the same thing based solely on my relationships being in this other space.
It does seem true that many people are more disturbed by someone talking on a cell phone than two people having an equally loud conversation face to face.
But I argue that this reflects a specific prejudice that many people have against the online place. We are bothered to see someone talking apparently 'to themselves.'
This is perhaps similar to the way many people, even loving kind people, 'tense up' a bit when they see a gay couple in public holding hands or being appropriately publicly affectionate.
It may be reasonable to have an absolutely silent library, but that is not what we have. We have a library where teenagers play over books - mostly doing good things in my personal view - but I can not have a quiet conversation asking my lover and professional colleagues about books.
Cheers,
Rich
My lover told me to tell you to "shut the f*ck up."