Every spring and through the summer my balcony in Rohnert Park is packed with pigeons and nests and lots of pigeon poop. Until this year. I saw two pigeons a couple months ago and NONE since. All I see are black crows.
Does anyone have any information on this?
Many thanks,
Suzanne
cbauman
07-15-2009, 07:20 PM
I have noticed that the pigeons as well as other birds are reduced or missing this year. I have seen a pair of doves. Also the crickets (downtown Sebastopol) are completely gone this summer. It is eerie. Effect of vineyards? Not sure. Chris
Hi All,
Every spring and through the summer my balcony in Rohnert Park is packed with pigeons and nests and lots of pigeon poop. Until this year. I saw two pigeons a couple months ago and NONE since. All I see are black crows.
Does anyone have any information on this?
Many thanks,
Suzanne
Tars
07-16-2009, 09:29 AM
Every spring and through the summer my balcony in Rohnert Park is packed with pigeons and nests and lots of pigeon poop. Until this year. I saw two pigeons a couple months ago and NONE since. All I see are black crows.
I have plenty of pigeons this year. My neighbor lets them nest & breed in his barn. During the day they come over her to feed, mate, & guanotize everything. When there get to be too many of them, we break out the pellet gun, and have a squab BBQ. The tenant animals here get the finest feeds available; as close to organic as we can afford. Makes for plump pigeons!
Probably just pissed off the local PETA crew. Maybe they'll send over some Playboy bunnies in lettuce bikinis? (hope hope hope)
I live adjacent to a fairly busy bird area. Seems to be plenty of birds this year. The one breed I've noticed a decline in is the Scrub Jay. There's one that flits through by occasionally, but none nesting locally. Plenty of mocking birds. I have a mother turkey, and her three chicks roosting in a tree right outside my house; they stop by every day at sunset. Also, I have a mother quail right near the house. She has more chicks than I've ever seen for one bird, must be over a dozen of the little peepers!
It sounds like you live in a fairly high-density living area. Probably plenty of pet cats around. That'd explain the pigeon paucity.
Magick
07-17-2009, 12:31 AM
I believe it is the pesticides. Pesticides are everywhere. This industry will not be eliminated until we care about the insects, plants, animals and birds that are declared to be the enemy, a pest, invasive, noxious or any other specist term that allows us to justify the hating and killing of another life form.
Ironically we are sickening and killing so many as we buy into the propaganda of this death dealing industry.
Everything takes from life to live but this can be done with respect and gratitude. Take what you need and leave the rest.
There used to be the loud sound of thousands of frogs in the Laguna until the Laguna Foundation decided to "protect" it from the "invasive plant" Ludwigia, and poured tons of pesticides in the water.
When all along the ludwigia is overgrown because there is an overload of nutrients from dairies, fertilizer, treated wastewater and destruction of riparian zones. Ludwigia is actually planted in structured wetlands to clean the water of heavy metals, too many nutrients and the like.
Poison, poison everywhere and not drop of truly clean water to drink anywhere on the planet. Pesticides are even found in the Artic and Antartic regions.
If you are an environmentalist and you hate "invasives" therefore rationalize, advocate and use pesticides, consider who is actually invading what.
This war against nature underlies all wars.
Love thine enemy as yourself, it is yourself.
As the Mayans say, I am another yourself, Yours in truth, Magick
I have noticed that the pigeons as well as other birds are reduced or missing this year. I have seen a pair of doves. Also the crickets (downtown Sebastopol) are completely gone this summer. It is eerie. Effect of vineyards? Not sure. Chris
Bird Watcher
07-17-2009, 09:15 AM
In our neighborhood, red-shouldered hawks are more prevalent than ever and have picked off pigeons, pullets, and any wild fledglings they can get their claws on. We saw one kill from the dinner table the other night--the swift dive of the hawk and later the feathers drifting down from the heights in the eucalyptus trees as the hawk pulled apart its meal. It's sad but also reaffirming to see that the cycle of life goes on despite human infringements.
jryeo
07-17-2009, 09:50 PM
Magick,
With all due respect, which pesticides are you talking about? Are you talking about antiquated broad-spectrum insecticides, or modern target-specific pesticides. In the case of the former, regulatory agencies have outlawed these compounds many years ago. In the case of the latter, these are highly target specific compounds with low animal toxicitiy and as a general rule are applied through a discretionary integrated management program (IPM).
I work in a pesticide use reduction program and we have had incredible success at reducing organophosphate and carbamate usage over the last ten years in Sonoma County. Please recognize that natural systems follow ebb and flow patterns and don't be so quick to blame a natural ebb on pesticides.
That said, the migratory bandtail pigeon population looks as healthy as ever to me. I suggest going out for a hike, keeping your eyes open, and you will see them everywhere, as I did this last weekend.
Please do research before making such broad statements.
jryeo
07-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Magick,
I researched your accusations of herbicide treatment in the Laguna diminishing frog populations. A powerpoint presentation posted on the California Invasive Plant Council website detailed the herbicide treatments applied to the Laguna (https://www.cal-ipc.org/symposia/archive/pdf/2006/RestorationMcNabb.pdf). Glypro Plus, from Dow Agrosciences was the only herbicide applied.
This is a glyphosphate herbicide (same as roundup) that acts as a plant growth hormone, telling the plant to grow! grow! grow!. Unfortunately the plant can't supply nutrients to support growth demanded from its hormones, and it dies. From a biochemical standpoint, there are no similarities between plant hormones and animal hormones, as you have implicated in your accusation that herbicide application in the laguna has poisoned frogs.
Any reduction in frog population resulting from this herbicide application likely resulted from loss of frog habitat within the non-native Ludwigia mat. If you've ever paddled through the Laguna, this stuff if THICK and offers great protection to frogs from predatory fish and birds. Prior to herbicide application, I postulate frog populations were un-naturally inflated due to invasive Ludwigia in the Laguna. It would not surprise me that an herbicide application would result in diminishing un-naturally high frog populations. That is the relative silence in the Laguna you have experienced, Not posioning of frogs.
Please research the topic thoroughly before posting and consider ecological interactions as causes for population flux.
Ludwigia in the Laguna is thick as ever. Eradication efforts failed and the frogs are back and noisy as ever.
Tars
07-18-2009, 08:00 AM
It's probably a simple explanation, and a local situation at that. I thought that a new neighbor may've moved in, who has a pet cat that's an accomplished hunter. And/or someone on a nearby balcony may be putting food out for birds, including pigeons. Pigeons will follow the food. Maybe the bratty kid down the block got a BB gun for his 11th B-Day.
Your concern about crows is justified. I've watched a crow fly into the barn rafters, and follow the pigeons, trying to find their nest.
Don't worry for the pigeons though. They are an adaptable species. They're all over the place. For some reason they just stopped soiling your particular balcony.
vdeva
07-18-2009, 09:11 PM
I'd like to talk about the frogs. I have tried to get my neighbor to stop spraying Roundup on the railroad easement that runs alongside our driveway.
Since he has started this there are no more frogs in the railroad ditch that runs along the train mound. For years every rainy season there were thousands of frogs singing in the water filled ditch. There are frogs further down the easement on both sides (other properties but none on this section). I have always figured it was the Roundup.
jryeo
07-19-2009, 07:14 AM
I'd like to talk about the frogs. I have tried to get my neighbor to stop spraying Roundup on the railroad easement that runs alongside our driveway.
Since he has started this there are no more frogs in the railroad ditch that runs along the train mound. For years every rainy season there were thousands of frogs singing in the water filled ditch. There are frogs further down the easement on both sides (other properties but none on this section). I have always figured it was the Roundup.
They are probably gone due to loss of the vegetation habitat. Not poisoning.
Photo Consultant
07-19-2009, 11:16 AM
The major problem with glyphosates are the surfactants used in the mix. BY law herbicide manufacturers are allowed to keep their formulas from the public by labeling them "inert ingredients." (I found this out by researching chemical maufacturing laws. They (glyphosates and their surfactants) interfere with normal hormone production and are long lasting in soil and underground water. There have been numerous studies over the last twenty years s done in Japan, Europe and the Netherlands linking glyphosates and their surfactants to cancers and adrenal interference.
When we see that "better living through chemicals" is a lie manufactured by their makers, it becomes clear we have successfully done without them for a half million years or so.
Magick,
I researched your accusations of herbicide treatment in the Laguna diminishing frog populations. A powerpoint presentation posted on the California Invasive Plant Council website detailed the herbicide treatments applied to the Laguna (https://www.cal-ipc.org/symposia/archive/pdf/2006/RestorationMcNabb.pdf). Glypro Plus, from Dow Agrosciences was the only herbicide applied.
This is a glyphosphate herbicide (same as roundup) that acts as a plant growth hormone, telling the plant to grow! grow! grow!. Unfortunately the plant can't supply nutrients to support growth demanded from its hormones, and it dies. From a biochemical standpoint, there are no similarities between plant hormones and animal hormones, as you have implicated in your accusation that herbicide application in the laguna has poisoned frogs.
Any reduction in frog population resulting from this herbicide application likely resulted from loss of frog habitat within the non-native Ludwigia mat. If you've ever paddled through the Laguna, this stuff if THICK and offers great protection to frogs from predatory fish and birds. Prior to herbicide application, I postulate frog populations were un-naturally inflated due to invasive Ludwigia in the Laguna. It would not surprise me that an herbicide application would result in diminishing un-naturally high frog populations. That is the relative silence in the Laguna you have experienced, Not posioning of frogs.
Please research the topic thoroughly before posting and consider ecological interactions as causes for population flux.
Ludwigia in the Laguna is thick as ever. Eradication efforts failed and the frogs are back and noisy as ever.