Black widow I.D. please

[Valley Oak]

We saw this large, black spider on our property today. Eventually, one of our chickens ate it.

I am 90% sure that it was a black widow. I used a long twig to turn it over on its back but it wouldn't stay put long enough for me to be absolutely certain that I could see the red hourglass clearly and without doubt. Are there any other spiders that are large, black, with a big butt, with reddish or colorful markings on its underside?

If anyone is an expert on spiders and can identify it, I have included a photo, below. If you save the image to your computer, you can enlarge it and barely see the colored under markings.

Thank you,

Edward

[quirkypixie]

It looks like a widow to me......It seems the older they get, the darker the hour glass gets, in my experience.....I have seen them with an almost black hourglass.

[Diane Rose]

They also have a web that is very strong and makes a noise when you pull on, as the web stretches. They like to live usually in corners that are dark and low and out of the way. It looks like a widow to me, from the shiny black and the body shape, but I am not an expert I have just seen them at my home many times.


We saw this large, black spider on our property today. Eventually, one of our chickens ate it.

I am 90% sure that it was a black widow. I used a long twig to turn it over on its back but it wouldn't stay put long enough for me to be absolutely certain that I could see the red hourglass clearly and without doubt. Are there any other spiders that are large, black, with a big butt, with reddish or colorful markings on its underside?

If anyone is an expert on spiders and can identify it, I have included a photo, below. If you save the image to your computer, you can enlarge it and barely see the colored under markings.

Thank you,

Edward

[Jupiter13]

I have seen 2 spiders lately that look like this- shiny black body but I couldn't see the underside. I googled Black Widow and read that we don't have them in Sonoma County. Sounds like that is not true if people who are responding have seen them around?




They also have a web that is very strong and makes a noise when you pull on, as the web stretches. They like to live usually in corners that are dark and low and out of the way. It looks like a widow to me, from the shiny black and the body shape, but I am not an expert I have just seen them at my home many times.

[Gary]

Certainly looks like a black widow in the picture. Every night they emerge from our wooden gate and hang upside down on their webs showing their brilliant red marking. I don't know of any spider to confuse with it if it is rather big, shiny, and black with the red underbelly. Also their webs are helpful for identification when they are hiding during the day. They look very primitive, no patterns or pretty spirals, just thick dry threads spread out in random directions. Not a great description for positive identification, but if you see a nice classic spider web then it is not a black widow's.

On a related note, we often hear of the brown recluse as the other venomous spider in the area. But a few years ago I learned from the following link that they do not in fact live here.
UCR Entomology Brown Recluse Myth (https://spiders.ucr.edu/myth.html)

[Hotspring 44]

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CSH%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> That is most definitely a black widow. Even though there is no red hourglass marking on the spider in the picture; the other telltale signs in your photograph are the web and egg cluster. On the left is the Black widow egg cluster. The Web structure around egg cluster is exactly the way black widows always structure them around their eggs.
The egg cluster is a cocoon like structure that has many fertilized eggs in it. I've counted up to two or three dozen individual spiders in a cluster like that. They usually have more than one egg cluster, but not always. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that, that is a black widow. If you keep an eye on the egg cluster, you can watch it develop and eventually see the tiny individual spiders in it under a bright light, or sunlight using a magnifying glass.

These spiders rarely attack humans. What sometimes happens is they put their webs in hidden areas usually in the shade, and underneath things. During my many years as an auto mechanic I have found them under dashboards, engine compartment, wheel wells, frame rails, and any other place; pretty much anywhere where a spider could go and make a web that would be somewhat protected from the elements, birds, large animals, and in the shade. They can handle a lot of heat; they just don't want to be in the direct sunlight.

Usually when people get bitten by black widows is because they grab some old clothing or put on an old pair of shoes that had a black widow in it and kind of squish the spider and put it in its defensive mode. Sometimes, more rarely, people will get bitten, because the spider is in her hunting mode, and they just barely touch the Web were the spider thinks there's food then the spider darts out extremely fast and bites the person.
When something big crashes into a web really hard, like putting a broom handle through it or leather glove over a hand, which I have done, and ripping it to shreds violently out hesitation or really fast; the spider in my experience always tries to hide because it knows that it's something too big for it to handle.

They may try to protect their egg cluster, but I have not heard of them protecting their egg cluster against something as large as an adult sized human hand when they know it's something that big. But I wouldn't bet my bare hand against it. I always used a broom or some instrument or a least leather gloves over my hands with a long-sleeved shirt tucked under the gloves. Thick latex gloves under the leather gloves are not a bad idea also.

When the females are very young they are not always perfectly shiny or jet black but they almost always have some kind of a red marking that looks much like a skeleton key-hole shape or an hourglass shape on their underside.

The webbing is very strong. I knew a couple of marksman that used the Web strands for their high-powered rifle scope cross-hairs. They can handle the heavy vibration of a recoil in the high-powered rifle and go right back to exactly the same spot in the telescopic scope that they were positioned in previously so they can keep it right on target.

At that point in time; in the 70s that was the highest-quality cross-hairs available. They would raise the black widows in a nursery and make the Black widow drop straight down hanging from its Web, and that's the part of the Web that they would use for the cross-hairs in their telescopic high-powered rifle scopes.

I am not an entomologist, but I'm quite familiar with black widows, because they have been around me ever since I was old enough to know what the spider was.

I have never been bitten by one. I'm sure it is a very unpleasant painful experience to say the least.
Whoever said they do not live in Sonoma County is just plain wrong. They live anywhere between the Sierra Mountains north and south, pretty much the whole state of California.

They are very abundant here, were I am visiting in the Mojave Desert area of California. I've seen them up in Annapolis, Russian River area, Calistoga, Lake County, Redondo Beach, San Diego County, Arizona desert, and as high up as 6,000 feet above sea level in the Sierra mountain range.




We saw this large, black spider on our property today. Eventually, one of our chickens ate it.

I am 90% sure that it was a black widow. I used a long twig to turn it over on its back but it wouldn't stay put long enough for me to be absolutely certain that I could see the red hourglass clearly and without doubt. Are there any other spiders that are large, black, with a big butt, with reddish or colorful markings on its underside?

If anyone is an expert on spiders and can identify it, I have included a photo, below. If you save the image to your computer, you can enlarge it and barely see the colored under markings.

Thank you,

Edward

[Claire]

Having lived in the country for a long time, I've seen loads of black widows around. They've been in our mailbox, in stacked pots in the barn, under the washer and dryer, just about anywhere that has an out of the way spot that the spider can retreat to. The weirdest place I discovered hordes of them was in my daughter's preschool playground equipment! Instead of using 4x4 or 6x6 posts, all the play structures were made with flat boards bolted together with space in between. They had nests all around in there and egg sacs, too. I made it my mission to find and clear them out of there every time I had playground duty. I used the pea gravel at hand to pour down the crevices to knock the spiders and egg sacks out.
I learned recently that the Western Black Widow can have white markings on its back. I've seen lots of those around, too, but they were always smaller than the classic ones. The markings looked a bit like an I Ching pattern.
Now would be a great time for people to check under their outside furniture. That is a favorite place for widows. Look for the chaotic nests, maybe with leaves attached, and search the deep crevices for the hidden spiders. The bites are terribly painful and are well worth avoiding if possible, especially for the children.
My brother always said their nests are so strong, the filaments are tuned to G sharp!

[Imagery]

Here's one for you:

https://www.sonic.net/~roo/Widow.jpg

Taken from ~3 in. away for a nice close up view. This one lives under our door sill plate, and we definitely live in Sonoma County. Whoever Jupiter13 used as a source doesn't know what they're talking about.

Here's another spider who lives under our sill plate as well - about a foot and a half away from the black widow. Also shot from ~3 in. away:

https://www.sonic.net/~roo/Spider.jpg

[The Owl]

That top photo is a black widow., it is true that they are not "indigenous" to this area but like with a lot of other things, they have ridden here with furnishings and cargo that has come from areas where they are indigenous and now they are becoming quite common. I found a pump house once where they had webs floor to ceiling... we're talking 7 ft high... with several females and a couple of males. They are pretty shy and try to crawl up into sheltered places and hide when discovered. One has to really work to get bitten by one but it is possible. The fangs are really tiny and they have a difficult time penetrating human skin but it does happen and the venom is pretty nasty. Most bites happen when people lie or sit down on one or put on a shirt or something that has one in it and it freaks thinking itself trapped and bites if it can in defense.

The lower picture is a common funnel web spider, there are many species of these... all fairly harmless except to insects. They can bite too, not deadly but painful like a tick bite... but again, you really have to work at getting bitten by one. They tend to run up into their tunnels and hide when disturbed.



Here's one for you:

https://www.sonic.net/~roo/Widow.jpg

Taken from ~3 in. away for a nice close up view. This one lives under our door sill plate, and we definitely live in Sonoma County. Whoever Jupiter13 used as a source doesn't know what they're talking about.

Here's another spider who lives under our sill plate as well - about a foot and a half away from the black widow. Also shot from ~3 in. away:

https://www.sonic.net/~roo/Spider.jpg

[Jupiter13]

You are so right. I relocated the huge one living in the garage and she looked just like this, definitely had the red on her belly. They are so beautiful and scary at the same time!

[ceni]

We had one who made her web just above the garage door in the corner eave of the roof. We called her Mavis.

Once, she caught this big moth in her web, wrapped it up real quick-like into a cocoon structure, them somehow *detached* it on a single strand and pulled it up to her dining area while it was dangling on a single thread. Quite a feat to watch because there were strong sticky threads everywhere. The kids and I were mesmerized for a ½ hour watching her.

[The Owl]

We saw this large, black spider on our property today. Eventually, one of our chickens ate it.

I am 90% sure that it was a black widow. I used a long twig to turn it over on its back but it wouldn't stay put long enough for me to be absolutely certain that I could see the red hourglass clearly and without doubt. Are there any other spiders that are large, black, with a big butt, with reddish or colorful markings on its underside?

If anyone is an expert on spiders and can identify it, I have included a photo, below. If you save the image to your computer, you can enlarge it and barely see the colored under markings.

Thank you,

Edward

Yes, Edward... it was a black widowif it looked like the one in this picture.

[The Owl]

I have seen 2 spiders lately that look like this- shiny black body but I couldn't see the underside. I googled Black Widow and read that we don't have them in Sonoma County. Sounds like that is not true if people who are responding have seen them around?

Thereare other spider species that are black and live in similar habitats, the Widow has the distinctive red markings.

[The Owl]

Just want to add that there are many species of house spiders that make egg cases similar to the one the widow makes. The Widow's tends to be whiter than the others but can become discolored by ambient dust in certain situations.

[The Owl]

We had one who made her web just above the garage door in the corner eave of the roof. We called her Mavis.

Once, she caught this big moth in her web, wrapped it up real quick-like into a cocoon structure, them somehow *detached* it on a single strand and pulled it up to her dining area while it was dangling on a single thread. Quite a feat to watch because there were strong sticky threads everywhere. The kids and I were mesmerized for a ½ hour watching her.

Thank you for not freaking out and just enjoying watching her at work. Their venom is nasty but they really have to be provoked to bite. They have really tiny fangs that have trouble biting through human skin except places where it is really thin. Most bites happen when one is trapped in an article of clothing or someone brushes up against one and it feels trapped or about to be squashed... left to their own, they will flee from danger, not head toward it... and they catch a LOT of bugs.

[davidkat]

Thereare other spider species that are black and live in similar habitats, the Widow has the distinctive red markings.

I've been in Sonoma county for 30 yrs. - there are black widow spiders throughout the county and they are very common. I have seen hundreds. They especially like the warmer areas of the county but are found everywhere. Anywhere dark, undisturbed, enclosed and close to the ground is perfect habitat for them.

David

[nanopiano]

If your hen ate the spider check her eggs...if you see a red hourglass looking shape on the shell you 'll know it was a BW.:wink:

[The Owl]

I've been in Sonoma county for 30 yrs. - there are black widow spiders throughout the county and they are very common. I have seen hundreds. They especially like the warmer areas of the county but are found everywhere. Anywhere dark, undisturbed, enclosed and close to the ground is perfect habitat for them.

David

Right, they are now. They are an introduced species, though... came here hiding in home furnishings, boxes and things that had been stored in sheds, garages and other good habitats by people moving here from back east.