Not everyone on this board is from Sebastopol

[elienos]

I just wanted to let you folks know that this board would be a lot more active if Sebastopol folks realized that Sonoma County doesn't just include Sebastopol. It is fine if you want it to stay Sebastopolcentric, but it should be advertised as such if it is to be so. half the posts on here assumes all the readers are from Sebastopol. I know two folks who don't come here because they think it is a board for Sebastopol folks.

[Imagery]

I just wanted to let you folks know that this board would be a lot more active if Sebastopol folks realized that Sonoma County doesn't just include Sebastopol. It is fine if you want it to stay Sebastopolcentric, but it should be advertised as such if it is to be so. half the posts on here assumes all the readers are from Sebastopol. I know two folks who don't come here because they think it is a board for Sebastopol folks.

I just wanted to point out that you've found us, and have started utilizing this place. Now, you just start telling your friends who live in YOUR neighborhood about this place, and soon, you will see the board grow and flourish...

...or you can simply criticize the efforts of a grass-roots community project (Thanks, Barry) to create something much more intelligent and mature than CL. I've almost had it with CL - the sniping and people who are too cheap to do their own work, so they use it as a place to cyber-beg to get something for nothing.

Besides, West County includes most everything west of the 101 freeway, outside of the city limits of Santa Rosa, Cotati, etc. - but we still welcome you around here.

[elienos]

I've been on this board for over a year. I didn't write this to criticize, I wrote it in hopes that some folks would be more conscious when they wrote their posts. Barry has done a great job it is up to users to pay attention.

The board says "Sonoma County Bulletin Board." i have told people about Wacco and many people know about it here in Petaluma, but don't feel it pertains to them after having checked it out (in the past). However, there have been some efforts on Barry's part to make it more friendly to those outside Sebastopol. Maybe there should be a Petaluma or Santa Rosa section. I just notice when I read threads and people talk about locations of things they assume everyone must be from Sebastopol and know what they are talking about. Like the "where the best place to buy food" threads. I am so so so so thankful to Barry for adding to "location" as a criteria to more sections. People used to just put addresses, no town. It might help if location was also in the jobs thread. But then people could just be more conscious and write the location right in the heading. I am not going to commute to work, and people post jobs there leaving no location. Localization is great. We have a local group of our own.

Ill let folks who have left know that the board is branching out more.

["Mad" Miles]

Elienos et al,

The Sebastocentric tendencies on waccobb.net have been dominant since I can remember. That's why I asked my sly question: "What's so great about Sebastopol (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccotalk/18321-whats-so-great-about-sebastopol.html)" (See post #1) back in late January of '07.

Chauvinism is ugly. It's particularly ugly when coming from a crowd, some of whom, claim to be "conscious".

I lived "in"* Sebastopol from August of 1997 until November of 2001. I was broke most of that time. When I got my job at the Red Cross in July of 1998, until I quit in July of 2001, I found myself spending more time in Santa Rosa than Sebastopol. Mostly for the scene at The Old Vic, but also for the movie theaters, cheaper and more varied restuarants. But also because there are fewer people who "put on airs" there than Sebasto.

Don't get me wrong. I love many aspects of Sebasto. The Community Center and its regular events in particular. Celtic Fest especially, also various one-off concerts usually organized by Cloud Moss and his Cumulus Productions, but also events organized by other producers. We raised $10K for Okili's legal defense there a few weeks ago. I don't know anywhere else in the county we could have done that.

* Actually the outskirts. I couldn't vote in city elections. I worked really, really hard in the 2000 election, for Nader, (out of the Green Party office in downtown Santa Rosa) but we also helped get the Green Party majority on the Sebastopol city council elected. And we've (we being the GPSC) kept that majority ever since. I've been proud of what they've done, even though it is mostly admiration from afar.

My favorite chicken taco, above all other chicken tacos, is the mesquite grilled at Papas and Pollo. When I can find them open...

I drive back and forth through "town" every work day.

My father, brother and youngest niece live in the outskirts. In the house(s) where I lived for five years.

The HopMonk is one of my favorite linner spots when I'm looking to eat the main meal of my day around 3:30 - 4:00 p.m. (I'd eat at Starlite and various other Sebasto fine eateries, if they were open then, but they're not. Of course that's also true of the rest of the region.)

I ate at K&L Bistro last Tuesday, because I could make their lunch hours as I was off of work early for a dental appointment. That's some really good food! Albeit not cheap.

But as I asked so very long ago, what's the difference between Sebasto and say, Graton, Bodega, Occidental, Camp Meeker, etc. If you want really cool I'd go with the latter two. If you want the best concentration of delicious but pricy restaurants, Graton. (Mexico Lindo being the glaring exception, delicious AND inexpensive. Please tell Mario and everyone else, Hi from Miles.) Etc., etc., etc..

I find it bemusing that Jeffrey House claims in his adverts that The Acehole is in Sebastopol, when it's really part of Graton. Maybe it has the 95472 zip, but really, Sebasto? I don't think so! Andy's could claim it's in Sebastopol. But 116 and Graton Road is Graton.

West Sonoma County really is one region. These distinctions are arbitrary and ultimately irrelevant (except for commute time, I agree!!! Commuting 100 miles a day, four days a week SUCKS! But I can't get anything closer that is as cheap, or as nice, and I like it here and don't want to leave. This dilemma may likely be resolved when/if the state lays me off soon...)

You want to know the best town in SonomaCo?

It's Forestville of course!?

(The Youth Park BBQ is today and tomorrow. If you're into beer, grilled meat and everyday people who make no claims to superiority, spiritual or otherwise, this is the place! The Youth Park is on Mirabel Road between 116 and River Road.)

But, "don't tell anybody, we're crowded enough," as they told me in Tule Lake, really northern California when I visited the Lava Beds a few Augusts ago.

Oops, I told.

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:


P.S. I apologize to those of you who live in the East County, North County, South County or Out of County, for the West County-centric chauvinism of the above. I keep meaning to spend more time in: Petaluma*, Calistoga, Glen Ellen, Sonoma, Healdsburg, Windsor, etc. But we're all creatures of habit who tend to roam familiar and easily accessible territory. Must be a hard-wired thing...

*And I did last Saturday for my birthday afternoon. Real Doner and the Mystic Bar ROCK!

By the by, this theme of "Is Sebastopol the bee's knee's" is a perennial favorite in waccoland. Just do a search. This post, and this thread that elenios started, is just the tip of the iceberg!

[theindependenteye]

I think I must have missed something. Is the gist of this thread (a) that Sebastopol is a better/worse town than ... , or (b) that too many people are posting on events or issues centering on Sebastopol, or (c) what?

>>>Chauvinism is ugly. It's particularly ugly when coming from a crowd, some of whom, claim to be "conscious".

Actually, I think it's less ugly coming from a bunch of benign people who "put on airs," whatever that may encompass, than from a bunch of drunks that'll beat you up.

As to the comparisons, in my view every town in the region has its own distinct flavor, also its own distinctive weeds about it. I guess it's kinda fun to compare, like Cubs fans vs. White Sox fans. The conversations can be pretty entertaining to the degree that everyone is sufficiently dedicated to the silliness.

But the other line of this thread -- that Wacco is too Sebastopol-centered -- I wish someone would explain more clearly. I see little Wacco postcards in stacks in Petaluma, Santa Rosa, etc. etc., and I don't know anything inhibiting posts from those areas. What would anyone suggest?

The one thing that *does* bug me, though it's less of a problem on this list than others I'm on, is when an event post gives only the name of a venue or a street address and assumes we know what town it's in. Talking about Hopmonk assumes we're all Sebastopolitans and might be totally opaque to a Petalumitron.

For what it's worth--
Conrad

[elienos]

The one thing that *does* bug me, though it's less of a problem on this list than others I'm on, is when an event post gives only the name of a venue or a street address and assumes we know what town it's in. Talking about Hopmonk assumes we're all Sebastopolitans and might be totally opaque to a Petalumitron.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

This is actually the sort of thing I am talking about. I often notice people will say where something is and it only has a street address. I asked where to get a 25 pound sack of flour and people were telling me to go go to Andy's south of town...the advice was very much appreciated but it is an example. I also wish people would post the town in the heading of their Event or rental or job or the such. Some jobs dont even say what town they are in! I often see the venue posted but not the town. You can see the location when you open but sometimes it gets old opening thread after thread to see what city the thread is coming from. But really that wasn't my point anyway. I thought maybe folks could be a little more conscious, thats all. The list is Sebastopol-centric. That's fine, and it will stay that way if folks aren't more inclusive. I was just pointing something out. To think about and talk about. It is always nice to discuss what is and isn't.

[Imagery]

This is actually the sort of thing I am talking about. I often notice people will say where something is and it only has a street address. I asked where to get a 25 pound sack of flour and people were telling me to go go to Andy's north of town...the advice was very much appreciated but it is an example.

As you note so nicely, most of the active users are from Sebastopol. If you would like more specific instructions, you could possibly include: I'm not from <here>, but would like to know where to get _______ , which would net you more precise directions.


I also wish people would post the town in the heading of their Event or rental or job or the such. Some jobs dont even say what town they are in! I often see the venue posted but not the town. You can see the location when you open but sometimes it gets old opening thread after thread to see what city the thread is coming from. But really that wasn't my point anyway.

I would hope that the title of the thread either is appropriate or not for you to peak your interest, in which case, you're opening it anyway.


I thought maybe folks could be a little more conscious, thats all. The list is Sebastopol-centric. That's fine, and it will stay that way if folks aren't more inclusive. I was just pointing something out. To think about and talk about. It is always nice to discuss what is and isn't.

Quite possibly if there's a more active role played by readers/users outside the local area - which is where you come in. :):

["Mad" Miles]

Cher Conrad,

Good points. But I quibble...


I think I must have missed something. Is the gist of this thread (a) that Sebastopol is a better/worse town than ... , or (b) that too many people are posting on events or issues centering on Sebastopol, or (c) what?

>>>Chauvinism is ugly. It's particularly ugly when coming from a crowd, some of whom, claim to be "conscious".>>>

Actually, I think it's less ugly coming from a bunch of benign people who "put on airs," whatever that may encompass, than from a bunch of drunks that'll beat you up.
Uh, you can get beaten up in Sebastopol as, or after, the bars close. Especially Jasper's or HopMonk. But that's also true everywhere else.


As to the comparisons, in my view every town in the region has its own distinct flavor, also its own distinctive weeds about it. I guess it's kinda fun to compare, like Cubs fans vs. White Sox fans. The conversations can be pretty entertaining to the degree that everyone is sufficiently dedicated to the silliness.
Nicely written. I completely agree!



But the other line of this thread -- that Wacco is too Sebastopol-centered -- I wish someone would explain more clearly. I see little Wacco postcards in stacks in Petaluma, Santa Rosa, etc. etc., and I don't know anything inhibiting posts from those areas. What would anyone suggest?
This question reminds me of the perennial one in Leftist groups. Are we racist/classist/sexists because more non-white, working class and/or poor, women and men aren't involved?

Or are they not involved because they don't like, trust, nor want to hang out with even the best intentioned and sensitive white, hetero males who also want to organize and fight for social and economic justice?

We haven't solved that one. I suspect we never will.

But hope springs eternal!



The one thing that *does* bug me, though it's less of a problem on this list than others I'm on, is when an event post gives only the name of a venue or a street address and assumes we know what town it's in. Talking about Hopmonk assumes we're all Sebastopolitans and might be totally opaque to a Petalumitron

For what it's worth--
Conrad

It's worth a lot!

On your specifying location complaint, all I can say in my own defense is that I mentioned Hopmonk in the midst of a post about what I like (and don't like) about Sebasto. So I assumed that Hopmonk's location was clearly implied.

Your general complaint, that in posts that are not clearly demarcated as pertaining to a specific town or region, people cite names of bars/restaurants/etc. assuming that everyone else knows where they are, is very well taken!

That's part of what I mean by chauvinsm. Assuming that everyone knows what one is talking about conveys a sense of superiority that is off-putting.

Hence the combination of the two themes that you have identified, in my reply to elenios.

If everyone writes as if all there is, is Sebastopol, that alienates those of us from other areas (especially ones close by!) and implies that all there is in West Sonoma County, is Sebastopol.

Those of us who live "here", and those of us who know the area even if we don't live "here", know different!

I do not assume that lack of information is an intended slight. But when a pattern emerges that implies something erroneous, and that pattern is also confusing and implies superiority (whether intentional or not), I'm going to pipe up about it. And so have others, you included.

One of many things I liked about living in Chicago for thirteen years, is that nobody assumes they're in the center of the universe.

Unless it was "Da Bulls" heyday with Michael Jordan, and that was specific to professional basketball. I don't follow professional sports, of any kind.

You get that "we're all there really is" attitude in New York, LA, London, Paris and just a little in SF. You don't get that in Chi-town. It was refreshing and comfortable. It made it accessable to everyone. It was a place that welcomed strangers, and at the same time was proud, without being arrogant, of itself.

What is unique about Sebastopol, is in many ways what is unique about: Berkeley, Arcata, Venice, Eugene, Portland, Seattle, Boulder, Austin, Roger's Park (Chicago), Greenwich Village, Soho, etc.

By "put on airs" I mean acting in a way which conveys a smug form of superiority, usually associated with lifestyle choices having to do with diet, health practices, recreational drug use, choices in religion/spirituality, political views, etc.

All of which, whether consciously and overtly, or as you put it "benign", communicate to the "straights" that one is somehow more enlightened, or morally superior.

This is a problem. Because if we want to make the world a better place, for everyone, we need to figure out how to communicate, as best we can, without alienating others, as best we can.

This is not a small problem, after thirty-four years of being an activist, off and on, it is one of the biggest things holding back what I see as "Progress".

To be continued....

(I am confident, hoping my confidence does not also appear to make me chauvinistic!!!)

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[elienos]

Hmmm, I am getting for Imagery that If I want to post on this Sebastopol board I should make sure everyone knows I am from Petaluma rather than suggesting people be more conscious that there are people who dont live in sebastopol on here.

This is a Sebastopol board and it will remain so. I thought it was supposed to be a Sonoma COunty board. I guess I though wrong.

Mad miles has some good stuff to say...

[elienos]

From mad miles: "This question reminds me of the perennial one in Leftist groups. Are we racist/classist/sexists because more non-white, working class and/or poor, women and men aren't involved?

Or are they not involved because they don't like, trust, nor want to hang out with even the best intentioned and sensitive white, hetero males who also want to organize and fight for social and economic justice?

We haven't solved that one. I suspect we never will."

This is similar to what I was thinking about when I wrote the original post. If you are a group of white middle class folks you have to go out of your way if you expect any others to join you. Would you join up with a group of inner city poor black folks if you weren't invited graciously? Most wouldn't. And even if you were invited, who you stay if you were treated like you were invisible or as if your opinions were irrelevant?

[Imagery]

Hmmm, I am getting from Imagery that If I want to post on this Sebastopol board I should make sure everyone knows I am from Petaluma rather than suggesting people be more conscious that there are people who dont live in sebastopol on here.

This is a Sebastopol board and it will remain so. I thought it was supposed to be a Sonoma COunty board. I guess I though wrong.

Mad miles has some good stuff to say...

Simply stated, so there is no misunderstanding:

Communication is a two way street. If you see responses which assume you are from Sebastopol, then maybe by making an effort to let them know you are NOT from Sebastopol, you MIGHT be able to raise the level of communication to the point where the respondent places more information in their post.

You seem to take offense to the fact that this small, tight knit community is able to communicate in such an informal fashion, and give general directions to places. In order to "break" that habit, if you so desire, try communicating - letting people know all the facts helps garner more intelligent responses.

[Barry]

Hi,

This board is not intended to be "Sebastopol Centric" but rather "conscious community centric" with focuses in both Sonoma County and Marin County.

Zipcodes of 95472 and 95473 only account for less than 30% of registered users. However WaccoBB.net was founded and grew up in Sebastopol and I live there as well. Sebastopol is generally recognized as the most progressive town in Sonoma County (though, I'm sure I'll be corrected!) and there's always lots happening here that is relevant to WaccoBB.net. All in all it make for lots of use in Sebastopol.

That said, we do serve all of Sonoma and Marin counties, and there are many posts each day from outside of Sebastopol.

I'd love to see heavier use for Petaluma items. I haven't split Petaluma out because the communities seem to me to be all tied together. People buy and sell, and attend events outside of their home communities.

You original point, elienos, is well taken. Many times the location assumes Sebastopol. I have changed the system so the prompt when people goto post for location is "Location (include nearest town)" and I have added that field to theServices/Referrals Wanted (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/services-referrals-wanted/)and the Employment Offered & Wanted (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/employment-offered-wanted/)Categories.

[hales]

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the issue of
Sebastopol-centrism.. I live in west Sonoma.. the town, that is. I have been really enjoying weekly treks to Sebastopol; dancing, making new friends, and appreciating the wealth of activities for folks of my demographic;more or less middle-aged, liberal, eco-conscious, post-hippie, artsy, music and dance-loving types.. ; ) (Though, I'm sure it has a lot to offer many other kinds of people too.. )

The town of Sonoma is a very nice place, but compared to Sebastopol, it is seeming really stuffy to me, and more and more, geared towards tourists and new-comer wealthy people. (with second or third homes in Sonoma..)
I'm feeling very at home, when I visit Sebastopol, but perhaps there is some of the grass-is-greener syndrome involved.. ; )

I am usually able to figure out what is meant when someone posts something, without being specific about what town it's related to, but it would be nice if people did include their town or area, when posting an item, event, etc..

Wacco is a great asset for me, in getting to know the community, and I do hope it grows to include the whole county. What I have noticed about similar attempts in the town of Sonoma, is there is more of a self-interest involved, a sort of chamber-of-commerce approach that is very off-putting.
If Barry has any self-interest or profit motive, it is definitely in the background, and I really appreciate all the work and generosity that go into this forum.

Thanks, Barry. ; )
Scott.

[Spike]

After publishing a global (mostly North America) forum for 12 years, it's pretty clear that most reader concerns for how they think it (community forums)should be, are usually emotional assessments that don't account for the facts of publishing that are mostly rooted in demographics.

For all the granola fed good energy many of us emit through the written word plus the best editorial direction of the publisher, this is always a public forum with participation from treehuggers and loggers, pacifists, hateful racists...everyone in the communities. And each with a unique opinion and many different positions.