I just purchased a lot in Siskyou County, just outside of Mt. Shasta (city). The lot is 3 acres. I have noticed that my neighbor has recently constructed a heavy duty horse fence over one corner of the parcel. The encrochment is 1 foot by 60 feet (60 square feet).
The encrochment does not bother me, however, I can see how it might cause me financial damage, should I wish to sell this parcel at a later date.
Questions:
1. As I understand things, my neighbor will gain possession of this 60 square feet after a certain period of time if I do nothing. True?
2. If #1 is true, I cannot sell my parcel as it is described in in the county hall of records, because I no longer own all of that parcel. True?
3. Would I not have to have a survey, redescribe the property lines and file all that with the county requesting a property line adjustment? This could cost thousands.
4. To avoid this problem, isn't there a simple solution?
How about a registered letter to my neighbor stating I will let him encroach but I want to remain the owner or some such action.
If you know a legal solution, please let me know.
Saill
02-15-2006, 09:21 PM
How about if you get together with your neighbor and a surveyor and a couple dozen friends and have a 'property line' party. You can set up a betting pool beforehand on where the property line is. Winner takes half, the other half goes to paying the surveyor.
Then, after the survey you have a nice barbecue, and you and your neighbor and your friends dig up the fence and move it to where the surveyor says it oughtta go.
Barry
02-15-2006, 11:09 PM
How about if you get together with your neighbor and a surveyor and a couple dozen friends and have a 'property line' party. You can set up a betting pool beforehand on where the property line is. Winner takes half, the other half goes to paying the surveyor.
Then, after the survey you have a nice barbecue, and you and your neighbor and your friends dig up the fence and move it to where the surveyor says it oughtta go.I think this a fabalous idea!
And here are some other thoughts. IANAL (I am not a lawyer) but as i remember from my 101 law course, this involves the issue of easements. And, as I remember, instead of letting your neighbor create an easement virtue of his use, you can instead grant him permission to use your land, perhaps for a specified period of time, and perhaps in exchange for some value (at least $1). That way, you own to land and you are granting rights to use YOUR land.
And to be sure, you should run it be a land use lawyer AND have a party!
Barry and Linda
redheifer
02-17-2006, 07:45 AM
Before you buy the beer and barbecue fixings , you might want to check where you stand with the do-it-yourself legal publisher, Nolo Press. Neighbor Law deals with this and similar issues. There are numerous copies in the Sonoma County Library.
petermargolies
02-17-2006, 08:53 AM
Before you buy the beer and barbecue fixings , you might want to check where you stand with the do-it-yourself legal publisher, Nolo Press. Neighbor Law deals with this and similar issues. There are numerous copies in the Sonoma County Library.
While such an encoachment is certainly irritating, getting a lawyer involved should be the last option. Are you sure the fence is on your property? There may be a difference in the way your property was surveyed from the way your neighbor's was.
The first approach ought to be a friendly conversation with your neighbor. After all, you are talking about 60 square feet of your three acres, which totals more than 125,000 square feet at 42,500 square feet per acre. I"m having trouble with the math, but I think that works out to less than a hundredth of one percent of your property. In any case, it is a very small amount. If you paid, what? $20,000 an acre, one percent of your three-acre lot would be worth $600 and a hundredth of one percent would be six bucks. Without knowing what you actually paid for the land, these calculations are little more than an example, but you probably should do the math so you know exactdly what you're talking about.
Assuming that the fence does involve 60 square feet of your land, the easiest thing to do would be to work out an arrangement where you would quit claim those 60 square feet of your property for 60 square feet of your neighbor's contiguous property. This is done all the time in rural areas where mistakes like this are uncommon. I'm sure your real estate agent would show you how to do this for you or be willing to handle it gratus for you. Quit claim deeds are very simple instruments for transferring property and do not require legal help.
It's irritating when mistakes like this are made, no matter how small, but this sounds a lot like making a mountain out of a mole hill.
petermargolies
02-17-2006, 09:12 AM
While such an encoachment is certainly irritating, getting a lawyer involved should be the last option. Are you sure the fence is on your property? There may be a difference in the way your property was surveyed from the way your neighbor's was.
The first approach ought to be a friendly conversation with your neighbor. After all, you are talking about 60 square feet of your three acres, which totals more than 125,000 square feet at 42,500 square feet per acre. I"m having trouble with the math, but I think that works out to less than a hundredth of one percent of your property. In any case, it is a very small amount. If you paid, what? $20,000 an acre, one percent of your three-acre lot would be worth $600 and a hundredth of one percent would be six bucks. Without knowing what you actually paid for the land, these calculations are little more than an example, but you probably should do the math so you know exactdly what you're talking about.
Assuming that the fence does involve 60 square feet of your land, the easiest thing to do would be to work out an arrangement where you would quit claim those 60 square feet of your property for 60 square feet of your neighbor's contiguous property. This is done all the time in rural areas where mistakes like this are uncommon. I'm sure your real estate agent would show you how to do this for you or be willing to handle it gratus for you. Quit claim deeds are very simple instruments for transferring property and do not require legal help.
It's irritating when mistakes like this are made, no matter how small, but this sounds a lot like making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Oops - meant to say that mistakes like this are NOT uncommon. Theyhappen quite frequently.
Allen
02-17-2006, 10:52 AM
[QUOTE=Allen] I have noticed that my neighbor has recently constructed a heavy duty horse fence over one corner of the parcel. The encrochment is 1 foot by 60 feet (60 square feet).
Questions:
1. As I understand things, my neighbor will gain possession of this 60 square feet after a certain period of time if I do nothing. True?
2. If #1 is true, I cannot sell my parcel as it is described in in the county hall of records, because I no longer own all of that parcel. True?
3. Would I not have to have a survey, redescribe the property lines and file all that with the county requesting a property line adjustment? This could cost thousands.
4. To avoid this problem, isn't there a simple solution?
There have been several solutions so far that may work.
First, I don't want my neighbor to have to move his fence.
I am not concerned with the 60 sq. ft., only how its loss affects my ability to sell the parcel I have left.
Questions 1-3 still have not been answered.
Barry suggests granting an easement for the fence which may be the best solution.
if I can do that without a re-survey.
Peter suggests the possibility of doing a Quit Claim. I will check into that.
I received an email suggesting I look at a "Neighbor Law" book by No Lo Press which is a great idea. I should have thought of since I have sold my last home myself using one of their publications.
I will post if I learn anything. Thanks to all who posted or emailed me.
ThePhiant
02-17-2006, 11:37 AM
a simple solution is real simple
you'll write him a letter stating that he owes you XXX for use of your property, if he doesn't agree; please remove the fence.
it needs to be a hostile and continuous occupation for it to become his.
if it is rented, you are still the owner
[QUOTE=Allen] I have noticed that my neighbor has recently constructed a heavy duty horse fence over one corner of the parcel. The encrochment is 1 foot by 60 feet (60 square feet).
Questions:
1. As I understand things, my neighbor will gain possession of this 60 square feet after a certain period of time if I do nothing. True?
2. If #1 is true, I cannot sell my parcel as it is described in in the county hall of records, because I no longer own all of that parcel. True?
3. Would I not have to have a survey, redescribe the property lines and file all that with the county requesting a property line adjustment? This could cost thousands.
4. To avoid this problem, isn't there a simple solution?
There have been several solutions so far that may work.
First, I don't want my neighbor to have to move his fence.
I am not concerned with the 60 sq. ft., only how its loss affects my ability to sell the parcel I have left.
Questions 1-3 still have not been answered.
Barry suggests granting an easement for the fence which may be the best solution.
if I can do that without a re-survey.
Peter suggests the possibility of doing a Quit Claim. I will check into that.
I received an email suggesting I look at a "Neighbor Law" book by No Lo Press which is a great idea. I should have thought of since I have sold my last home myself using one of their publications.
I will post if I learn anything. Thanks to all who posted or emailed me.
alphagrl
02-18-2006, 11:09 PM
Obviously a heated topic. Time to move it to a discussion forum?
With gratitude from a tired reader.
aj
a simple solution is real simple
you'll write him a letter stating that he owes you XXX for use of your property, if he doesn't agree; please remove the fence.
it needs to be a hostile and continuous occupation for it to become his.
if it is rented, you are still the owner
[QUOTE=Allen]
Neal Deesit
02-19-2006, 05:34 PM
[QUOTE=Allen] I just purchased a lot in Siskyou County, just outside of Mt. Shasta (city). The lot is 3 acres. I have noticed that my neighbor has recently constructed a heavy duty horse fence over one corner of the parcel. The encrochment is 1 foot by 60 feet (60 square feet).
The encrochment does not bother me, however, I can see how it might cause me financial damage, should I wish to sell this parcel at a later date.
Questions:
1. As I understand things, my neighbor will gain possession of this 60 square feet after a certain period of time if I do nothing. True?
You appear to be talking about Adverse Possession. There is good article on Trespass, Adverse Possession & Easements here (https://%3Chttps://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm%3E.).
It is an excerpt from a book others have mentioned, 'Neighbor Law: Fences, Trees, Boundaries and Noise' by Attorney Cora Jordan Copyright (c) 1994 Nolo Press.
If you read this article, you probably won't need to buy the book to address your situation.
2. If #1 is true, I cannot sell my parcel as it is described in in the county hall of records, because I no longer own all of that parcel. True?
Yes, but only if your neighbor has acquired the property by adverse possession. Even then, there would ultimately have to be some instrument, e.g., a court judgment, recorded in the deed records showing that you had been divested of the portion acquired by adverse possession, and specifically describing what you lost.
3. Would I not have to have a survey, redescribe the property lines and file all that with the county requesting a property line adjustment? This could cost thousands.
Generally speaking, no; the document described above would describe the new boundary of your property, and in any later sale of your property, your deed to the buyer would describe what you are selling as the tract of property you originally bought, less the tract of property described in the recorded document.
4. To avoid this problem, isn't there a simple solution?
Yes, the article discusses many solutions, among the simplest is to give your neighbor written permission to use the portion of your land that he's fenced. A sample permission form is shown in the article I linked to.
How about a registered letter to my neighbor stating I will let him encroach but I want to remain the owner or some such action.
It would be better to get your neighbor to acknowledge the Written Permission, as shown in the sample form described in the Article.
In addition, after it is signed and acknowledged, you should record the Written Permission with the County Recorder of Siskyou County. That gives constructive notice to the world that your neighbor is using a part of your property only because you gave permission, and that your permission may be revoked at any time. Later, when you eventually revoke your permission, do it in writing to your neighbor, and record your revocation document with the County Recorder, thereby giving constructive notice that your neighbor's use is no longer permitted.
By recording these documents, you will make it perfectly clear to anyone doing a title search on your or your neighbor's property exactly the terms and conditions of your neighbor's use of the property, and will serve to explain the presence of the neighbor's encroaching horse fence on your property.
If you know a legal solution, please let me know.
joyfulliving
02-19-2006, 08:23 PM
THAT THAT PROPERTY IS HIS. IF HE CANNOT DO THAT WITHIN 30 DAYS BY A LICENSED SURVEYORY THEN TELL THIS PERSIN THAT OU ARE PUTTING HIM ON LEGAL NOTICE THAT YOU WILL HAVE THE FENCE REMOVED AND CHARGE THE COST TO HIM. No one can just build a fence. I would NEVER give up any of your property EVER like that. IT is UP TO THIS PERSON to bear the cost since he built on YOUR PROPERTY according to your understanding. Did you have a legal survey done when you purchased this property. NEVER agree to just GIVE IT TO HIM. That is not at all wise....Don't be unwise....IT DOES matter. If you ever try to sell it will cost YOU. It should bother you.....
Yes that person will OWN that property if you don't get them off of it.
Yes the county just doesn't let you give away part of it to anyone without formal proceedings. They might not even let you divide it. Some lots HAVE TO BE AT LEAST A CERTAIN SIZE.
Send a letter immediately to that owner and tell them they need to move it IMMEDIATELY or you will take legal action! No one can just build a fence and say they own a piece of property that belongs to you just because they want to. What is yours is yours. I have done most of my own legal paperwork in my life and this much I know to be true. I have owned 7 pieces of property and know .....I don't know why they wanted some more words here but here they are
I just purchased a lot in Siskyou County, just outside of Mt. Shasta (city). The lot is 3 acres. I have noticed that my neighbor has recently constructed a heavy duty horse fence over one corner of the parcel. The encrochment is 1 foot by 60 feet (60 square feet).
The encrochment does not bother me, however, I can see how it might cause me financial damage, should I wish to sell this parcel at a later date.
Questions:
1. As I understand things, my neighbor will gain possession of this 60 square feet after a certain period of time if I do nothing. True?
2. If #1 is true, I cannot sell my parcel as it is described in in the county hall of records, because I no longer own all of that parcel. True?
3. Would I not have to have a survey, redescribe the property lines and file all that with the county requesting a property line adjustment? This could cost thousands.
4. To avoid this problem, isn't there a simple solution?
How about a registered letter to my neighbor stating I will let him encroach but I want to remain the owner or some such action.
If you know a legal solution, please let me know.
[QUOTE]
bobbiwacco
07-06-2010, 11:50 PM
I just purchased a lot in Siskyou County, just outside of Mt. Shasta (city). The lot is 3 acres. I have noticed that my neighbor has recently constructed a heavy duty horse fence over one corner of the parcel. The encrochment is 1 foot by 60 feet (60 square feet).
The encrochment does not bother me, however, I can see how it might cause me financial damage, should I wish to sell this parcel at a later date.
Questions:
1. As I understand things, my neighbor will gain possession of this 60 square feet after a certain period of time if I do nothing. True?
2. If #1 is true, I cannot sell my parcel as it is described in in the county hall of records, because I no longer own all of that parcel. True?
3. Would I not have to have a survey, redescribe the property lines and file all that with the county requesting a property line adjustment? This could cost thousands.
4. To avoid this problem, isn't there a simple solution?
How about a registered letter to my neighbor stating I will let him encroach but I want to remain the owner or some such action.
If you know a legal solution, please let me know.
To perfect adverse possession, the encroachment has to be open, notorious (against your will) and he has to pay the taxes. Google 'adverse possession'.
Howard Rice Nemerovski Canady Falk & Rabkin (https://www.howardrice.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=content.contentDetail&ID=8446&tID=219)
To perfect adverse possession, the encroachment has to be open, notorious (against your will) and he has to pay the taxes. Google 'adverse possession'.