The Future of Empty Car Dealerships

[Tars]

I was attracted to this piece on Planetizen (https://www.planetizen.com/), because we in Sebastopol have a big patch of empty blacktop sitting splat in the middle of town. It's privately-owned of course. I hope it doesn't become the site of Sebastopol's first high-rise. But with citizen suggestions, perhaps some constructive purpose could be found for it.

(start Tars' rant)Personally, I'd like to see the Sunday Farmers' Market moved there, so as to ease the traffic congestion (idling exhaust cough-cough honking angry drivers) caused by the current location in the town square. The old auto dealership would provide space for both the parking that the "green" market requires, and space for more vendors, including I would hope, actual small farmers, instead of flea-market-style imports vendors.(/endrant)

COMPLETE ARTICLE LINK
(https://www.planetizen.com/node/38902)
Excerpt:

"As of May 21, 2009, these were the top five ideas:
Ask the local residents about what the community needs (228 votes)
Urban gardens (213 votes)
Create walkable, vibrant places and improve current communities (141 votes)
Farmers’ markets and local events (124 votes)
Solar and wind energy park/vehicle charging stations (109 votes)"

[MsTerry]

This is an intriguing idea, but like you said, this is private prime property.
There will be a lot of idling at that location as well since it is such a major intersection, a shopping mall would be the most likely new tenant.
Should we stop Walmart before it arrives?


I was attracted to this piece on Planetizen (https://www.planetizen.com/), because we in Sebastopol have a big patch of empty blacktop sitting splat in the middle of town. It's privately-owned of course. I hope it doesn't become the site of Sebastopol's first high-rise. But with citizen suggestions, perhaps some constructive purpose could be found for it.

(start Tars' rant)Personally, I'd like to see the Sunday Farmers' Market moved there, so as to ease the traffic congestion (idling exhaust cough-cough honking angry drivers) caused by the current location in the town square. The old auto dealership would provide space for both the parking that the "green" market requires, and space for more vendors, including I would hope, actual small farmers, instead of flea-market-style imports vendors.(/endrant)

COMPLETE ARTICLE LINK
(https://www.planetizen.com/node/38902)
Excerpt:

"As of May 21, 2009, these were the top five ideas:
Ask the local residents about what the community needs (228 votes)
Urban gardens (213 votes)
Create walkable, vibrant places and improve current communities (141 votes)
Farmers’ markets and local events (124 votes)
Solar and wind energy park/vehicle charging stations (109 votes)"

[hales]

Hi, Tars..
You might take a look at all the recent development in Petaluma, along the river, and see what they did with their auto plazas. They built a theater and multi-use business buildings, including parking, retail and housing. BTW, all the developement in Petaluma happened during the time of beaucoup cheap financing money, which is OVER, at least for the time being. And the outlook for opening new business is totally chilling, at the moment. (Most of the new retail stores, and possibly the housing appears to be vacant.)

Also, today in Sonoma, I was noticing that even more established local businesses have closed.. lots of over-priced, vacant housing and retail space available.

I think the "bottom line" is that whatever the future use of these sites, the owners will want to get what they think is "market rate" for the land. (even if that value has collapsed..) And if there is a new era solution for urban land use, there has to be a realistic business plan to make it happen. Who or what is going to pay the mortgage or lease payments on acres of "prime" downtown real estate?

Scott.


I was attracted to this piece on Planetizen (https://www.planetizen.com/), because we in Sebastopol have a big patch of empty blacktop sitting splat in the middle of town. It's privately-owned of course. I hope it doesn't become the site of Sebastopol's first high-rise. But with citizen suggestions, perhaps some constructive purpose could be found for it.

(start Tars' rant)Personally, I'd like to see the Sunday Farmers' Market moved there, so as to ease the traffic congestion (idling exhaust cough-cough honking angry drivers) caused by the current location in the town square. The old auto dealership would provide space for both the parking that the "green" market requires, and space for more vendors, including I would hope, actual small farmers, instead of flea-market-style imports vendors.(/endrant)

COMPLETE ARTICLE LINK
(https://www.planetizen.com/node/38902)
Excerpt:

"As of May 21, 2009, these were the top five ideas:
Ask the local residents about what the community needs (228 votes)
Urban gardens (213 votes)
Create walkable, vibrant places and improve current communities (141 votes)
Farmers’ markets and local events (124 votes)
Solar and wind energy park/vehicle charging stations (109 votes)"

[Tars]

You might take a look at all the recent development in Petaluma, along the river, and see what they did with their auto plazas.
They built a theater and multi-use business buildings, including parking, retail and housing.

As it happens I've toured the Petaluma downtown area you speak of. Each of us has our ideas about best use of space. I would hope that Sebastopol can avoid having the ultra-high-density type of neighborhood as in Petaluma. However, even that would be better than the few acres of blacktop we have now at the former dealerships, soaking up solar energy, and creating a heat bloom over downtown.


BTW, all the developement in Petaluma happened during the time of beaucoup cheap financing money, which is OVER, at least for the time being.Not completely accurate. The days of cheap financing for people or entities with no or minimal credit history is gone. In my ideal situation, I'd like to see the city, or other relatively benign organization, with some development potential, acquire that property, and put it to good community use. I know...probably won't happen. Who knows what the current ownership status is for that piece. I just hope it doesn't sit there for years, like the old lumberyard near the plaza did, before some productive use is made of it. The mostly-empty commercial spaces just east of there on hwy 12 are a bad sign. Several thousand square feet are sitting empty and non-contributive to the community well-being.


Also, today in Sonoma, I was noticing that even more established local businesses have closed.. lots of over-priced, vacant housing and retail space available.I'm associated with a retail space in downtown Sebastopol. The business there, selling touristy-higher-priced-pseudo-artsy stuff is going. There's vibrant active interest by various parties to move into that space ASAP. My strong impression is that downtown Sebastopol is economically healthy.


I think the "bottom line" is that whatever the future use of these sites, the owners will want to get what they think is "market rate" for the land. (even if that value has collapsed..) And if there is a new era solution for urban land use, there has to be a realistic business plan to make it happen. Who or what is going to pay the mortgage or lease payments on acres of "prime" downtown real estate?Good question. Depends on who owns it and their financial health. Can the current owners support the property tax and maintenance if it just sits there? Hopefully, whoever it is will open the area for very-small businesses (ala farmers' market), or open it to some healthy public uses.

Here's hoping!

[Roland Jacopetti]

Good Morning! Dystopia Oldsmobile Pontiac DeSoto Kaiser Crosley Tucker Hudson Nash - how may I direct your call?

Roland

[hales]

Tars, I'm with you man.. I like the idea of perhaps sharing larger areas between multiple smaller businesses. In fact that is a definite trend, when it comes to car dealerships.. And I agree, it'd be great if there were a trend of taking up asphalt and cement, instead of laying more down. It would be great if land use could be re-visioned, and it would be great if Sebastopol were a leader in that shift. It'd be cool to create a green belt in the city, if possible. Mabye a business/residential park that included public spaces, trees, trails, water-features, etc? Sort of like what happened in P-town, but with more space, greenery, etc.

I live in Sonoma and you can clearly see the rift between the wealthy and the service class, but driving up hwy. 12, from the high-toned plaza, west past the shopping centers and mixed use business/residential area along Napa St. and then north, into the Boyes Springs area, that has a lot of it's tax dollars siphoned back into Sonoma. It's become sort of third world-y, for better or worse. At least , after years of beureaucratic wrangling, "they" are finally putting in sidewalks, which looks like it will be a big improvement for pedestrians, and will visually tie the area together.

Money for redevelopement has to come from taxes or some kind of revenue, and there has to be some demonstratable benefit to the community, generally including increased revenues. (unless there is some influx of money from the feds, but it would still have to be justified to a bureaucratic process.)

I really wonder if the collapse of real estate values ( and other markets) hasn't got a ways to go, as people in different industries keep being displaced by the cascading effects of this "downturn" economy, as retirement funds have evaporated, etc.

What would have to happed before real change in how communities are designed would occur. How do we "retrofit" communities as our needs, priorities, and resources change? ( "Us", being the aging working baby boomers, current and future retirees, the growing families of imigrants, the growing number of displaced workers in various fields, etc.)

Okay, just a small disclaimer; I'm no expert on urban planning, but have observed and thought about this stuff, just as you have. I do think any idealistic vision has to have a practical and sustainable foundation, ie; a good business model, otherwise it prob'ly won't fly.. ; )

Scott.


As it happens I've toured the Petaluma downtown area you speak of. Each of us has our ideas about best use of space. I would hope that Sebastopol can avoid having the ultra-high-density type of neighborhood as in Petaluma. However, even that would be better than the few acres of blacktop we have now at the former dealerships, soaking up solar energy, and creating a heat bloom over downtown.

Not completely accurate. The days of cheap financing for people or entities with no or minimal credit history is gone. In my ideal situation, I'd like to see the city, or other relatively benign organization, with some development potential, acquire that property, and put it to good community use. I know...probably won't happen. Who knows what the current ownership status is for that piece. I just hope it doesn't sit there for years, like the old lumberyard near the plaza did, before some productive use is made of it. The mostly-empty commercial spaces just east of there on hwy 12 are a bad sign. Several thousand square feet are sitting empty and non-contributive to the community well-being.

I'm associated with a retail space in downtown Sebastopol. The business there, selling touristy-higher-priced-pseudo-artsy stuff is going. There's vibrant active interest by various parties to move into that space ASAP. My strong impression is that downtown Sebastopol is economically healthy.

Good question. Depends on who owns it and their financial health. Can the current owners support the property tax and maintenance if it just sits there? Hopefully, whoever it is will open the area for very-small businesses (ala farmers' market), or open it to some healthy public uses.

Here's hoping!

[hales]

The dustbin of history?

sincerely, Rusty.


Good Morning! Dystopia Oldsmobile Pontiac DeSoto Kaiser Crosley Tucker Hudson Nash - how may I direct your call?

Roland