ICPP
05-09-2009, 01:18 PM
Loving maternal care is a wonderful thing, but for people who were abused, neglected or abandoned by their mothers this is a particularly painful holiday.
View Full Version : Can we acknowledge the people born to awful mothers?
MsTerry
05-09-2009, 06:53 PM
Loving maternal care is a wonderful thing, but for people who were abused, neglected or abandoned by their mothers this is a particularly painful holiday.
Only if they choose to stay stuck in the victim role.
They could celebrate the freedom and wisdom they found on their own.
What a wonderful day Mother's day is!
:thumbsup:
Only if they choose to stay stuck in the victim role.
They could celebrate the freedom and wisdom they found on their own.
What a wonderful day Mother's day is!
:thumbsup:
nurturetruth
05-10-2009, 04:30 PM
Happy Mothers day Ms.terry
and to all mothers
our Earth Mother
Our beautiful inner mother
and to all mothers
our Earth Mother
Our beautiful inner mother
Sylph
05-10-2009, 06:36 PM
I acknowledge you, ICPP, and I'm sorry you had a bad mother. Hopefully, you are not stuck in a "victim" mentality...No evidence that you are from your post. I can see how a day devoted to mother love could be a downer for you!
laughing.linda
05-10-2009, 09:38 PM
thank you for that!
Yes, mothers day has always been a bit tricky, learned long ago that a "mothers day" card just wouldn't do, they were out and out lies, saying how wonderful the mother had been. So as the polite southern girl that I was raised to be, I discovered funny cards worked just as well with a Happy Mothers Day" written inside. Duty done, none offended.
And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me. Of course, it's a hell of a lot easier that she's thousands of miles away and never visits. (smile)
Yes, mothers day has always been a bit tricky, learned long ago that a "mothers day" card just wouldn't do, they were out and out lies, saying how wonderful the mother had been. So as the polite southern girl that I was raised to be, I discovered funny cards worked just as well with a Happy Mothers Day" written inside. Duty done, none offended.
And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me. Of course, it's a hell of a lot easier that she's thousands of miles away and never visits. (smile)
babaruss
05-10-2009, 11:04 PM
It took me a while to sort things out, but after some rooting around in family history I came up with enough answers to free me of hating my mother, and to allow me express love for her before she died.
It wasn't anything personal..the way she treated me as a child...any other seed could have won the race to fertilize that damned egg. It was just my luck to have won the race to become my mother's child.
When I was an adult, and not a young adult at that, I began to seek answers for why 'I' was such a mess. In that searching, it dawned on me that I might want to consider looking at my mother's childhood too.
When I was able to drop some of my anger, self pity, and assorted negative reactions for family in general (and my mother in particular) long enough to ask questions and collect information, was I able to find a few answers. Answers which now make it o.k. for my mother to have been who she was. Damned generous of me don't you think (all things considered)?
Finding that she had her own brutal childhood to deal with explained a whole lot of things. Knowing that she came from a time when you just did not let out anything that was a family secret made it all the more understandable that she would find other ways to draw attention to her misery...even if it meant she was going to make others miserable to do it
Long ago I dropped those pathetic comments that only fools mutter these days...words like "how could you"... "you really should have known better"
and my favorite crock of crap...'why are you 'playing the victim' ? "
People who are stuck stay stuck until something, or someone, comes along to free them. And by God (or Goddess should you prefer) when your world is full of pain, shame, and other assorted internalized misery it's damned unlikely you are going to suddenly trust, and believe someone who comes along to blithely point out your short comings and demand you 'just grow up'.
The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources).
Hardly a mother's day tribute, but what the hell, maybe my little discovery will resonate with someone out there who is stuck in anger and resentment over his or her mom's less than tender love and care.
And if that doesn't work do what I did for the first 45 years of my life...I just went around mumbling to my self that mom was my ticket to this plane of existence....bumpy ride getting here...but what the hell, I am still here and enjoying the sights.
babaruss
Only if they choose to stay stuck in the victim role.
They could celebrate the freedom and wisdom they found on their own.
What a wonderful day Mother's day is!
:thumbsup:
It wasn't anything personal..the way she treated me as a child...any other seed could have won the race to fertilize that damned egg. It was just my luck to have won the race to become my mother's child.
When I was an adult, and not a young adult at that, I began to seek answers for why 'I' was such a mess. In that searching, it dawned on me that I might want to consider looking at my mother's childhood too.
When I was able to drop some of my anger, self pity, and assorted negative reactions for family in general (and my mother in particular) long enough to ask questions and collect information, was I able to find a few answers. Answers which now make it o.k. for my mother to have been who she was. Damned generous of me don't you think (all things considered)?
Finding that she had her own brutal childhood to deal with explained a whole lot of things. Knowing that she came from a time when you just did not let out anything that was a family secret made it all the more understandable that she would find other ways to draw attention to her misery...even if it meant she was going to make others miserable to do it
Long ago I dropped those pathetic comments that only fools mutter these days...words like "how could you"... "you really should have known better"
and my favorite crock of crap...'why are you 'playing the victim' ? "
People who are stuck stay stuck until something, or someone, comes along to free them. And by God (or Goddess should you prefer) when your world is full of pain, shame, and other assorted internalized misery it's damned unlikely you are going to suddenly trust, and believe someone who comes along to blithely point out your short comings and demand you 'just grow up'.
The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources).
Hardly a mother's day tribute, but what the hell, maybe my little discovery will resonate with someone out there who is stuck in anger and resentment over his or her mom's less than tender love and care.
And if that doesn't work do what I did for the first 45 years of my life...I just went around mumbling to my self that mom was my ticket to this plane of existence....bumpy ride getting here...but what the hell, I am still here and enjoying the sights.
babaruss
Only if they choose to stay stuck in the victim role.
They could celebrate the freedom and wisdom they found on their own.
What a wonderful day Mother's day is!
:thumbsup:
nurturetruth
05-11-2009, 02:11 AM
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" height="21" width="175">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" height="21" width="175">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
laughing.linda
05-11-2009, 03:23 AM
If I did not make a conscious choice to believe that I chose my parents, my life, I can't imagine how I would have made it this far.
(Therapy, lots of it, was important, hmm, just now see that as another example of finding parenting...)
Just as my mother found solace in Jesus, (the spare the rod, spoil the child sort of god) I find peace in choosing to live as though I meant to be here for all of this. So the older I get (57), the more I find I have in common with the crazy lady's beliefs. Neither one of us has any proof to explain our coping mechanisms. This cracks me up.
It also cracks me up that having a really abusive "childhood" created such a lovely person as myself! Go figure...
feels good to have this discussion, thanks to each of you
(Therapy, lots of it, was important, hmm, just now see that as another example of finding parenting...)
Just as my mother found solace in Jesus, (the spare the rod, spoil the child sort of god) I find peace in choosing to live as though I meant to be here for all of this. So the older I get (57), the more I find I have in common with the crazy lady's beliefs. Neither one of us has any proof to explain our coping mechanisms. This cracks me up.
It also cracks me up that having a really abusive "childhood" created such a lovely person as myself! Go figure...
feels good to have this discussion, thanks to each of you
alanora
05-11-2009, 08:42 AM
Wow, this one brings up all sorts of ideas, some of which have been mentioned. First, if one believes we choose our parents, then we got exactly what our soul chose for us to encounter in this lifetime in order to become more....no matter how horrible or twisted or lacking the situation appears. If nothing else, mom can be appreciated for being the conduit into this life. Over my lifetime, after being motivated alternately by life's ups and downs, and seeing how my environment affected my growth and choices, it became easier to postulate that mom too was a product of her nature and nurture or lack or distortion of her family of origin and was indeed doing the best she could given her knowledge and options in her time and place and realizing I would probably have been quite similarly afflicted in her shoes. Of course prior to that realization I tried to "fix", cajole, ignore, oppose what she stood for in my mind and this shaped lot of the defense/coping/survival mechanisms I'd unconsciously adopted since birth, which also had an effect on my child...ad nauseum in both directions......I come from a long line of crazy women!! My pattern of loving then condemning self and humanity stems from origins in bipolar household...duh.....
So "awful" becomes harder to pinpoint. And harsh opinion eases and peace within and without is restored. Peaceharmonylaughterlove (I try to disallow hallmark any pull on my emotions no matter the occasion and instead aim to express emotions authentically as they arise and depart.......) Hope this ramble is helpful to someone, writing was clarifying for me. No editing...dog walk instead.....forgive.
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" height="21" width="175">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
So "awful" becomes harder to pinpoint. And harsh opinion eases and peace within and without is restored. Peaceharmonylaughterlove (I try to disallow hallmark any pull on my emotions no matter the occasion and instead aim to express emotions authentically as they arise and depart.......) Hope this ramble is helpful to someone, writing was clarifying for me. No editing...dog walk instead.....forgive.
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" height="21" width="175">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
babaruss
05-11-2009, 11:27 AM
Decided the P.S. was something I might be able to respond to.
There are always going to be problems with such things as 'self nurturing'
and 'self acceptance'....especially if your primary nurturer may was incapable of giving love.
What I learned from my mother I mastered..........self love, and self acceptance, simply were not part of that curriculum.
Having said that.....there has to come a time when one realizes there is another way to seeing things.
In my case it took repeated bouncing off of walls called: rebellion, rage, self pity, drugs, alcohol (just to name a few), and their unavoidable nonstop consequences, before it came to me that I had become as warped, and distorted, as were my parents. (left my father out earlier because we were talking about mothers).
Funny how enough pain can motivate a person into looking at a situation differently.
When I stopped fighting/deny/acting out on everything around me, and began just let things be....there was a subtle shift in attitude.
Serendipity...that wonderful word which means....'hey I've got a surprise for you'...led me to a gardening article about water flowers.
That funny looking lotus seed was what started me on the path towards accepting my past, and recognizing it need not remain a hindrance to personal transformation.
This odd little seed, dropped unceremoniously into the dark, smelly, muck at a bottom of a pond began to provide me with hope...a way out of my misery.
I started thinking about how that seed took root right where it had been dropped.... I thought more about it's reaching to the light... and then how a great many petals must unfold before the blossoming is done.
The image of this lovely flower floating majestically above the muck and mire of it's dark beginning started me first to wonder, and then to reach.
There's no promise I'll make it to the final unfolding (let alone make it to the pond surface) but from where I am today, it sure as hell beats being stuck in that muck.
babaruss
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.[/quote]
There are always going to be problems with such things as 'self nurturing'
and 'self acceptance'....especially if your primary nurturer may was incapable of giving love.
What I learned from my mother I mastered..........self love, and self acceptance, simply were not part of that curriculum.
Having said that.....there has to come a time when one realizes there is another way to seeing things.
In my case it took repeated bouncing off of walls called: rebellion, rage, self pity, drugs, alcohol (just to name a few), and their unavoidable nonstop consequences, before it came to me that I had become as warped, and distorted, as were my parents. (left my father out earlier because we were talking about mothers).
Funny how enough pain can motivate a person into looking at a situation differently.
When I stopped fighting/deny/acting out on everything around me, and began just let things be....there was a subtle shift in attitude.
Serendipity...that wonderful word which means....'hey I've got a surprise for you'...led me to a gardening article about water flowers.
That funny looking lotus seed was what started me on the path towards accepting my past, and recognizing it need not remain a hindrance to personal transformation.
This odd little seed, dropped unceremoniously into the dark, smelly, muck at a bottom of a pond began to provide me with hope...a way out of my misery.
I started thinking about how that seed took root right where it had been dropped.... I thought more about it's reaching to the light... and then how a great many petals must unfold before the blossoming is done.
The image of this lovely flower floating majestically above the muck and mire of it's dark beginning started me first to wonder, and then to reach.
There's no promise I'll make it to the final unfolding (let alone make it to the pond surface) but from where I am today, it sure as hell beats being stuck in that muck.
babaruss
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.[/quote]
ICPP
05-11-2009, 11:55 AM
...if one believes we choose our parents, then we got exactly what our soul chose for us to encounter in this lifetime in order to become more....no matter how horrible or twisted or lacking the situation appears...
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand how it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
Some sociopathic types might even say that if you rape and torture a child it's really okay, because both you and the child chose this lesson before you were even born, and the suffering you inflict gives the child a valuable learning experience, as long as they don't 'choose to stay stuck in the victim role'.
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand how it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
Some sociopathic types might even say that if you rape and torture a child it's really okay, because both you and the child chose this lesson before you were even born, and the suffering you inflict gives the child a valuable learning experience, as long as they don't 'choose to stay stuck in the victim role'.
babaruss
05-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Predestination....pre-chosen...and all for the good of our souls ?
Suffering may indeed be good for the soul, or at least lead
one to some sort of spiritual awakening. I mean who am I to
contradict Mother Theresa !!
Who to hell needs be a pre-born volunteer for torment and
abuse when life on the planet provides adequate opportunity
for all... free for the taking (and whether you want it or not).
I've met people who subscribe to the 'we volunteered/aggreed
to have this experience' line of thinking.
I was told once by a very serious person that he just knew:
'The Jews collectively agreed to the holocaust prior to having
been born'.
The twisted and convoluted idea of children agreeing to be raped,
tortured, and made to suffer miserable lives as being necessary
for their spiritual unfolding makes my stomach turn.
Any spiritual belief which allows for such cruelty is not
a system of thought I can deal with.
No doubt I am preaching to the choir here.
Hitting the gratitude button does not go far enough this time out.
Thanks
babaruss
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand that it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
Some sociopathic types might even say that if you rape, torture and kill a child it's really okay, because both you and the child chose this lesson before you were even born, and the suffering you inflict gives the child a valuable learning experience, as long as they don't 'choose to stay stuck in the victim role'.
Suffering may indeed be good for the soul, or at least lead
one to some sort of spiritual awakening. I mean who am I to
contradict Mother Theresa !!
Who to hell needs be a pre-born volunteer for torment and
abuse when life on the planet provides adequate opportunity
for all... free for the taking (and whether you want it or not).
I've met people who subscribe to the 'we volunteered/aggreed
to have this experience' line of thinking.
I was told once by a very serious person that he just knew:
'The Jews collectively agreed to the holocaust prior to having
been born'.
The twisted and convoluted idea of children agreeing to be raped,
tortured, and made to suffer miserable lives as being necessary
for their spiritual unfolding makes my stomach turn.
Any spiritual belief which allows for such cruelty is not
a system of thought I can deal with.
No doubt I am preaching to the choir here.
Hitting the gratitude button does not go far enough this time out.
Thanks
babaruss
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand that it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
Some sociopathic types might even say that if you rape, torture and kill a child it's really okay, because both you and the child chose this lesson before you were even born, and the suffering you inflict gives the child a valuable learning experience, as long as they don't 'choose to stay stuck in the victim role'.
hales
05-11-2009, 01:25 PM
Thank you for your compassionate and wise posts, NurtureTruth..
What a great thing, to be able to remember choosing one's parents! Otherwise it's more of a challenge to remember to take responsibility for one's own nurturance and way of being.
As far as being either in "victim,villain and hero" mode.. That sounds a lot like the rescue triangle; a co-dependent dynamic. I prefer the idea of being in balance, or at least eventually returning to loving balance, neutrality, equanimity, or whatever you might call that.. those other modes can be so tiring.. ; )
(oops! Upon re-reading that paragraph, I see that you are talking about also being the nurturing and accepting observer/witness, as we go through our human role-swings.. I can appreciate that! ; )
Blessings and best wishes to all mothers, partners of mothers, and children of mothers.. ; )
Scott.
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" width="175" height="21">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
What a great thing, to be able to remember choosing one's parents! Otherwise it's more of a challenge to remember to take responsibility for one's own nurturance and way of being.
As far as being either in "victim,villain and hero" mode.. That sounds a lot like the rescue triangle; a co-dependent dynamic. I prefer the idea of being in balance, or at least eventually returning to loving balance, neutrality, equanimity, or whatever you might call that.. those other modes can be so tiring.. ; )
(oops! Upon re-reading that paragraph, I see that you are talking about also being the nurturing and accepting observer/witness, as we go through our human role-swings.. I can appreciate that! ; )
Blessings and best wishes to all mothers, partners of mothers, and children of mothers.. ; )
Scott.
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" width="175" height="21">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
hales
05-11-2009, 01:37 PM
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
Hi, again, Nurturetruth, I don't know if this is relevant, but please check out the words to leonard Cohen's album, "Ten New Songs", if you haven't heard them before. (actually the album came out in 2001.. great album.. you reminded me of these lyrics with the phrase: "The pain of longing" To me, this album is deep and rich with reflections on this path to union, driven by longing..
"I tried to love you my way,
But I couldn’t make it hold.
So I closed the Book of Longing
And I do what I am told."
Ten New Songs (https://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/tennewsongs.html)
Scott.
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
Hi, again, Nurturetruth, I don't know if this is relevant, but please check out the words to leonard Cohen's album, "Ten New Songs", if you haven't heard them before. (actually the album came out in 2001.. great album.. you reminded me of these lyrics with the phrase: "The pain of longing" To me, this album is deep and rich with reflections on this path to union, driven by longing..
"I tried to love you my way,
But I couldn’t make it hold.
So I closed the Book of Longing
And I do what I am told."
Ten New Songs (https://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/tennewsongs.html)
Scott.
nurturetruth
05-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Hales:
I am actually a BIG fan of Leonard Cohen's! Have all the albums!
ICPP... I acknowledge , understand and respect ur "stance".
Let me kindly clarify myself a little.
I feel I choice of my parents pre birth, yes. It was not a comfort but an experience. Though I do not fully support the belief that everything and every experience in our Earth life is necessarily predetermined .
I do however acknowledge the power of choice at any given moment.
As far as the mishaps and unpleasant experiences of my own journey, if I was not the one consciously choosing them, i feel I was somehow unconsciously choosing them. And if I was not solely responsible for choosing my experience, then I believe that i was at the very least, helpful in co-creating my experience in some way.
This does not mean to me that conscious or unconscious choices/decisions justifies acts of violence or neglect. Nor do i feel that we choose our path of trials and tribulations before we were born.
In my opinion, nothing justifies violence, whether the violent act is physical,sexual,emotional,psychological, or in the forms of communication we use to talk with one another.
Many of us go through trauma or experience post traumatic stress syndrome due to life's experiences.
For me, its what we do with our life experiences that matter most.
I once acknowledged myself as a victim before I could become a survivor.
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand that it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
Some sociopathic types might even say that if you rape, torture and kill a child it's really okay, because both you and the child chose this lesson before you were even born, and the suffering you inflict gives the child a valuable learning experience, as long as they don't 'choose to stay stuck in the victim role'.
I am actually a BIG fan of Leonard Cohen's! Have all the albums!
ICPP... I acknowledge , understand and respect ur "stance".
Let me kindly clarify myself a little.
I feel I choice of my parents pre birth, yes. It was not a comfort but an experience. Though I do not fully support the belief that everything and every experience in our Earth life is necessarily predetermined .
I do however acknowledge the power of choice at any given moment.
As far as the mishaps and unpleasant experiences of my own journey, if I was not the one consciously choosing them, i feel I was somehow unconsciously choosing them. And if I was not solely responsible for choosing my experience, then I believe that i was at the very least, helpful in co-creating my experience in some way.
This does not mean to me that conscious or unconscious choices/decisions justifies acts of violence or neglect. Nor do i feel that we choose our path of trials and tribulations before we were born.
In my opinion, nothing justifies violence, whether the violent act is physical,sexual,emotional,psychological, or in the forms of communication we use to talk with one another.
Many of us go through trauma or experience post traumatic stress syndrome due to life's experiences.
For me, its what we do with our life experiences that matter most.
I once acknowledged myself as a victim before I could become a survivor.
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand that it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
Some sociopathic types might even say that if you rape, torture and kill a child it's really okay, because both you and the child chose this lesson before you were even born, and the suffering you inflict gives the child a valuable learning experience, as long as they don't 'choose to stay stuck in the victim role'.
MsTerry
05-11-2009, 02:15 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, don't get me started on my life long hero.
caus you want to travel with him
and you want to travel blind
and you know he will find you
for he has touched your perfect body with his mind
"I tried to love you my way,
But I couldn’t make it hold.
So I closed the Book of Longing
And I do what I am told."
Ten New Songs (https://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/tennewsongs.html)
Scott.
Scott, were you lucky enough to catch his recent concert?
caus you want to travel with him
and you want to travel blind
and you know he will find you
for he has touched your perfect body with his mind
"I tried to love you my way,
But I couldn’t make it hold.
So I closed the Book of Longing
And I do what I am told."
Ten New Songs (https://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/tennewsongs.html)
Scott.
Scott, were you lucky enough to catch his recent concert?
Sylph
05-11-2009, 07:25 PM
Babaruss: That funny looking lotus seed was what started me on the path towards accepting my past, and recognizing it need not remain a hindrance to personal transformation.
This odd little seed, dropped unceremoniously into the dark, smelly, muck at a bottom of a pond began to provide me with hope...a way out of my misery.
I started thinking about how that seed took root right where it had been dropped.... I thought more about it's reaching to the light... and then how a great many petals must unfold before the blossoming is done.
The image of this lovely flower floating majestically above the muck and mire of its dark beginning started me first to wonder, and then to reach.
There's no promise I'll make it to the final unfolding (let alone make it to the pond surface) but from where I am today, it sure as hell beats being stuck in that muck.
Babaruss
Russ, that is beautiful! To extend the plant metaphor, I think that a bad parent can damage us, in many ways, but not necessarily break us. I am thinking of the sturdy, tough plants shaped by the wind out at the coast. The nursery plant grows lush and straight,, but is more vulnerable when exposed to the inevitable extremes of climate. The bush lupine bows into the prevailing wind and is shaped by the wind, but continues to thrive. If we can survive our bad parenting and begin to understand that it wasn’t our fault, we can glean wisdom, strength and compassion
Nurturetruth: I do however acknowledge the power of choice at any given moment.
As far as the mishaps and unpleasant experiences of my own journey, if I was not the one consciously choosing them, i feel I was somehow unconsciously choosing them. And if I was not solely responsible for choosing my experience, then I believe that i was at the very least, helpful in co-creating my experience in some way.
Yes, we have the power of choice! However, bad stuff happens to good people all the time. I don’t think we chose it or somehow needed a lesson. It just happens. Sometimes, we have made choices that lead to bad outcomes, of course. But, the world is full of chaos…stuff happens: horrible parents, pedophiles, cancer, falling trees, disease, car accidents. We do, however, have the power to learn from our personal tragedies. We can choose, to a large degree, how we feel about what happens to us.
If there is an entity orchestrating all this pain and misery, well, he/she has some explaining to do!
Scott and MsT:
I've only recently discovered Leonard Cohen, and I love his work!
This odd little seed, dropped unceremoniously into the dark, smelly, muck at a bottom of a pond began to provide me with hope...a way out of my misery.
I started thinking about how that seed took root right where it had been dropped.... I thought more about it's reaching to the light... and then how a great many petals must unfold before the blossoming is done.
The image of this lovely flower floating majestically above the muck and mire of its dark beginning started me first to wonder, and then to reach.
There's no promise I'll make it to the final unfolding (let alone make it to the pond surface) but from where I am today, it sure as hell beats being stuck in that muck.
Babaruss
Russ, that is beautiful! To extend the plant metaphor, I think that a bad parent can damage us, in many ways, but not necessarily break us. I am thinking of the sturdy, tough plants shaped by the wind out at the coast. The nursery plant grows lush and straight,, but is more vulnerable when exposed to the inevitable extremes of climate. The bush lupine bows into the prevailing wind and is shaped by the wind, but continues to thrive. If we can survive our bad parenting and begin to understand that it wasn’t our fault, we can glean wisdom, strength and compassion
Nurturetruth: I do however acknowledge the power of choice at any given moment.
As far as the mishaps and unpleasant experiences of my own journey, if I was not the one consciously choosing them, i feel I was somehow unconsciously choosing them. And if I was not solely responsible for choosing my experience, then I believe that i was at the very least, helpful in co-creating my experience in some way.
Yes, we have the power of choice! However, bad stuff happens to good people all the time. I don’t think we chose it or somehow needed a lesson. It just happens. Sometimes, we have made choices that lead to bad outcomes, of course. But, the world is full of chaos…stuff happens: horrible parents, pedophiles, cancer, falling trees, disease, car accidents. We do, however, have the power to learn from our personal tragedies. We can choose, to a large degree, how we feel about what happens to us.
If there is an entity orchestrating all this pain and misery, well, he/she has some explaining to do!
Scott and MsT:
I've only recently discovered Leonard Cohen, and I love his work!
MsTerry
05-11-2009, 09:55 PM
Yes, we have the power of choice! However, bad stuff happens to good people all the time. I don’t think we chose it or somehow needed a lesson. It just happens. Sometimes, we have made choices that lead to bad outcomes, of course. But, the world is full of chaos…stuff happens: horrible parents, pedophiles, cancer, falling trees, disease, car accidents. We do, however, have the power to learn from our personal tragedies. We can choose, to a large degree, how we feel about what happens to us.
If there is an entity orchestrating all this pain and misery, well, he/she has some explaining to do!
I do think we have a choice (or an opportunity) to turn the corner when unfortunate things happen to us. Not only after they happen, but also during the event. Everyone knows a story of someone doing something selfless or unexpected in times of peril.
Don't forget, it is not only you but also the other person who has an opportunity to make a difference, and when that person makes the wrong choice, we create more suffering.
Scott and MsT:
I've only recently discovered Leonard Cohen, and I love his work!
I first heard Leonard when i was a gullible teenager.
'Suzanne' was the song that spoke to me first.
I played that single until it could no longer be played
Those first guitar notes, followed by his deep mesmerizing voice were enough to send me away.
I cloaked myself in his words and was hypnotised by the power he awarded a woman.
Even now I can't get his call out of my head.
If there is an entity orchestrating all this pain and misery, well, he/she has some explaining to do!
I do think we have a choice (or an opportunity) to turn the corner when unfortunate things happen to us. Not only after they happen, but also during the event. Everyone knows a story of someone doing something selfless or unexpected in times of peril.
Don't forget, it is not only you but also the other person who has an opportunity to make a difference, and when that person makes the wrong choice, we create more suffering.
Scott and MsT:
I've only recently discovered Leonard Cohen, and I love his work!
I first heard Leonard when i was a gullible teenager.
'Suzanne' was the song that spoke to me first.
I played that single until it could no longer be played
Those first guitar notes, followed by his deep mesmerizing voice were enough to send me away.
I cloaked myself in his words and was hypnotised by the power he awarded a woman.
Even now I can't get his call out of my head.
CSummer
05-12-2009, 01:15 AM
With much appreciation for nurturetruth's, babaruss's and other contributions here, I have this to say:
nurturetruth wrote> If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
My sense is that our ability to nurture ourselves is really quite limited. It seems to me that most people don't even become aware of their deep unmet emotional needs until they are in a relationship, and even then they may not be really conscious of them - though these needs are probably what's running them. As I read the book "Hold Me Tight" by Sue Johnson (who developed Emotionally Focused Therapy), I want to believe that a lot of these needs can be met in a relationship, at least once we become aware of our true needs and are able to communicate them without demanding or blaming - i.e., without making the other responsible for meeting them.
I also believe emotional needs can be met in a group when people come together to co-create an environment that is truly supportive and caring. This is based on brief but profound experiences I have had which convinced me that it is possible to create an environment in which our deepest needs can be met.
babaruss> People who are stuck stay stuck until something, or someone, comes along to free them. And by God (or Goddess should you prefer) when your world is full of pain, shame, and other assorted internalized misery it's damned unlikely you are going to suddenly trust, and believe someone who comes along to blithely point out your short comings and demand you 'just grow up'.
I have often thought it must be a universal principle that things stay where and as you put them until they are moved or transformed. This certainly seems to hold true for the "baggage" most of us carry from early life experiences, including unmet needs, unexpressed feelings, unexamined beliefs and unquestioned perceptions.
I relate a lot to what you say about your life with - and beyond - mother, babaruss. I had the opportunity to 'see' what was really going on with my mother around the time I was in her womb. Rage and anger tend to dissolve when we see the truth of someone's suffering. I found that this enabled me to begin to forgive her for the abusive treatment I received.
alanora wrote:
...if one believes we choose our parents, then we got exactly what our soul chose for us to encounter in this lifetime in order to become more....no matter how horrible or twisted or lacking the situation appears...
ICPP replied:
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand how it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
-------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if I chose my parents or not, but I have had the sense that I chose to come back here for a purpose. And it seems the very dysfunctional family I was born into was the perfect beginning for me to fulfill that purpose.
To me, this doesn't imply that anything is predetermined, but simply that I needed to learn some things the hard way (probably the only way they could be learned).
The more my life is focused on growing in self-awareness and understanding, the more I am able to see why the world is the way it is. The sense that I chose this difficult path enables me to feel less of a victim - of my upbringing and of life. It also helps me to feel compassion for others and to see that there is an alternative to passing on our heritage of violence, suffering and unhappiness. I'm able to have the belief that there is a way to live in peace and harmony with all beings. We can begin this journey by coming together to support each other in reclaiming those parts and qualities of ourselves that we buried or have hidden away so we could survive childhood.
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" height="21" width="175">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.
nurturetruth wrote> If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
My sense is that our ability to nurture ourselves is really quite limited. It seems to me that most people don't even become aware of their deep unmet emotional needs until they are in a relationship, and even then they may not be really conscious of them - though these needs are probably what's running them. As I read the book "Hold Me Tight" by Sue Johnson (who developed Emotionally Focused Therapy), I want to believe that a lot of these needs can be met in a relationship, at least once we become aware of our true needs and are able to communicate them without demanding or blaming - i.e., without making the other responsible for meeting them.
I also believe emotional needs can be met in a group when people come together to co-create an environment that is truly supportive and caring. This is based on brief but profound experiences I have had which convinced me that it is possible to create an environment in which our deepest needs can be met.
babaruss> People who are stuck stay stuck until something, or someone, comes along to free them. And by God (or Goddess should you prefer) when your world is full of pain, shame, and other assorted internalized misery it's damned unlikely you are going to suddenly trust, and believe someone who comes along to blithely point out your short comings and demand you 'just grow up'.
I have often thought it must be a universal principle that things stay where and as you put them until they are moved or transformed. This certainly seems to hold true for the "baggage" most of us carry from early life experiences, including unmet needs, unexpressed feelings, unexamined beliefs and unquestioned perceptions.
I relate a lot to what you say about your life with - and beyond - mother, babaruss. I had the opportunity to 'see' what was really going on with my mother around the time I was in her womb. Rage and anger tend to dissolve when we see the truth of someone's suffering. I found that this enabled me to begin to forgive her for the abusive treatment I received.
alanora wrote:
...if one believes we choose our parents, then we got exactly what our soul chose for us to encounter in this lifetime in order to become more....no matter how horrible or twisted or lacking the situation appears...
ICPP replied:
I've always found this to be an oddly convoluted belief system. I can understand how it might give some comfort to some people, but the implication is that everything is predetermined, including rape and torture, so why should we bother trying to relieve suffering in the world? Whether we help others or not, it's all predetermined anyway.
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I don't know if I chose my parents or not, but I have had the sense that I chose to come back here for a purpose. And it seems the very dysfunctional family I was born into was the perfect beginning for me to fulfill that purpose.
To me, this doesn't imply that anything is predetermined, but simply that I needed to learn some things the hard way (probably the only way they could be learned).
The more my life is focused on growing in self-awareness and understanding, the more I am able to see why the world is the way it is. The sense that I chose this difficult path enables me to feel less of a victim - of my upbringing and of life. It also helps me to feel compassion for others and to see that there is an alternative to passing on our heritage of violence, suffering and unhappiness. I'm able to have the belief that there is a way to live in peace and harmony with all beings. We can begin this journey by coming together to support each other in reclaiming those parts and qualities of ourselves that we buried or have hidden away so we could survive childhood.
Sylph:
I totally 'lit up' when I read ur acknowledgment of ICPP! total appreciation for this!
Laughing linda:
"And, the more mothering I give myself, the more kindness I can extend to the crazy woman who birthed me."
RIGHT ON!
Babaruss:
"The more I learned about my mother's childhood, her early adulthood, the easier it became to forgive her for being the only person she could have been (given her life experiences and limited resources)."
I can TOTALLY relate!
Though perhaps suggestive, I interpreted what ICPP stated as more of a statement and perhaps a great subject matter to reflect on as so many of us have experienced at one time or another....difficult /unresolved feelings towards our birth mother. (or father) I can see how a day like "mothers day" might be challenging for those who hold unresolved feelings.
Usually the perception holds true that the "mother" is "the nurturer"
If our emotional needs are not met or addressed in our childhood/young adult stages of life, our only option is to learn to become our own best mother/nurturer . And if lucky, we are then able to possibly develop nurturing relations with others.
I honor my birth mother for being a doorway for me to enter the Earth Realm. I actually remember hearing a voice telling me to choose my parents and I witnessed a long never ending row of many paired couples. I thank my parents for allowing me to come through them b/c I wouldn't be where I was today without them. I honor life (the universal mother) and stand in awe of mother nature's beauty. (especially in Spring!)
Gardening is a great experience of connecting with 'the mother".
This year , instead of limiting mothers day to just my birth mother, I wish to honor all of our inner and external nurturers!
a thought to reflect on:
What does nurturing mean to you?
If u had been slashed apart by separation
then i could explain the pain of longing to you.
Whoever lives far from where his roots grow
Seeks the day when he may know the union.
In honor of this thread:
<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://static.photobucket.com/flash/input.swf" style="" id="Direct-code" bgcolor="transparent" quality="high" name="Direct-code" wmode="transparent" allowfullscreen="true" swliveconnect="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="ipt=http%3A%2F%2Fs261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii65%2Fsealestial%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dc959d6ac.pbw&trk=image_code_click_FULLVIEW_URL_LINK&width=175&height=21&color=#000000&border=#BDBDBD&cont=DirectContainer" height="21" width="175">
mothers day slideshow by sealestial - Photobucket (https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii65/sealestial/?action=view¤t=c959d6ac.pbw)
PS: I like to think of us as a flower. With the center of the flower representing our center /soul. And all the many petals representing different aspects of ourselves or roles we go into that we can identify/witness.
A respected teacher once suggested that we often go in and out of many different roles depending on the moment and that all of our "roles" fall under 3 different categories: victim,villain and hero. The trick is to be able to observe/identify this without judgment . Nurturing ourselves with acceptance. Coming home to ourselves. Accepting ourselves for whereever we are at on our journey and also being able to recognize the power (and freedom) of choice.