Valley Oak
05-03-2009, 05:58 PM
We saw this snake close to our house. Can someone identify it please?
Thank you,
Edward
Thank you,
Edward
View Full Version : Snake I.D. please
"Mad" Miles
05-03-2009, 08:30 PM
It's a harmless constrictor of some kind. Probably a corn, bull or rat snake. Decterlove will know exactly what species it is.
They eat small rodents and possibly lizards, large insects, small birds. They're safe for human interaction.
Although a wild one might leave perfect parabolas of shallow teeth marks and shit/piss on you if you pick it up. That's what a California King snake did to me at UCI back sometime in '75-'76. I let it go after showing it off for a couple of hours.
They're a good animal to have around as they help to keep the rodent population down.
When I was nine through ten in Colorado Springs, I first owned a Bull snake named Beauregard. Then I traded him in for a California King snake, Rajah. When we moved to Korea in '67 I sold Rajah back to the pet store. I wanted to be a herpatologist at the time. Plus they scared girls!!!! Way cool for a pre-adolescent boy.
"Mad" Miles
Days Inn, Metarrie, LA
I fly back to waccoland in the a.m.
:burngrnbounce:
:snake:
Hey! Der ain't noa gater in dose smilies! Ca va pas bien!!
They eat small rodents and possibly lizards, large insects, small birds. They're safe for human interaction.
Although a wild one might leave perfect parabolas of shallow teeth marks and shit/piss on you if you pick it up. That's what a California King snake did to me at UCI back sometime in '75-'76. I let it go after showing it off for a couple of hours.
They're a good animal to have around as they help to keep the rodent population down.
When I was nine through ten in Colorado Springs, I first owned a Bull snake named Beauregard. Then I traded him in for a California King snake, Rajah. When we moved to Korea in '67 I sold Rajah back to the pet store. I wanted to be a herpatologist at the time. Plus they scared girls!!!! Way cool for a pre-adolescent boy.
"Mad" Miles
Days Inn, Metarrie, LA
I fly back to waccoland in the a.m.
:burngrnbounce:
:snake:
Hey! Der ain't noa gater in dose smilies! Ca va pas bien!!
decterlove
05-03-2009, 09:13 PM
It's a Pacific Gopher Snake (pituophis catenifer), perhaps the most common snake in California but still not seen that much except at this time of year when the males are tracking females to breed with.
I was lucky enough to see four of them in 30 minutes a week and a half ago at Shollenberger Park in Petaluma.
They are perfectly harmless but can put on quite a display of hissing and pretend striking. About 1 out of 10 will actually try to bite you if you pick it up. And they will shake their tails in dry grass which will sound like a rattlesnake.
A rattlesnake always has rattles tho' and generally keeps his rattle off the ground so you can see and hear it better. A gopher shakes its' tail flat on the ground so it actually can make a sound in dry leaves or grass. A rattler never hisses either but a gopher snakes hiss can sound a bit like the buzz of a rattlesnake.
Really big gophers are getting very rare these days but can reach seven feet historically. Biggest I've ever seen was a nice fat six footer at Harbin Hot Springs about 25 years ago...most top out at a skinny four or five feet these days.
To i.d. any snake in California check out......
California Reptiles and Amphibians (https://www.californiaherps.com/)
Here's a newsletter I did last year on the Pacific Gopher Snake.
Douglas Hall
Hands On Snakes!
707-338-4884
www.handsonsnakes.com (https://www.handsonsnakes.com/)
Snakes for the Classroom~~~The Gopher Snake~~~from Hands On Snakes!
https://www.handsonsnakes.com/ (https://www.handsonsnakes.com/)
The Pacific Gopher Snake is the most commonly encountered snake in the North Bay area. It is closely related to Pine Snakes of the East Coast, and Bull Snakes which ranges from Canada into Mexico. All belong the genus Pituophis.
Gopher Snakes are aptly named for their voracious appetite for gophers and other rodents. A single large gopher snake can constrict and kill several rodents at once when it encounters them in their nesting burrows.
Gopher Snakes may reach lengths of over seven feet but most found in Sonoma, Napa, and Marin Counties will be in the three to five foot range. Males are often seen crossing roads in the Spring looking for mates, and for many this can be a dangerous venture.
Gopher Snakes prefer grassy, dry fields, and can be easily mistaken for rattlesnakes due to their habit of hissing loudly and vibrating their tails. Their coloration is similar as well, usually tannish with brown blotches. If a snake is hissing at you, however, it is not a rattlesnake.
Each can be chased away from a residential area simply by focusing a hose at them, or sweeping them away with a broom. A long stick works well if encountered on the trail.
Gopher snakes are a good choice for the classroom setting. They are temperature hardy, have good appetites, and most will calm down with a few weeks of gentle handling. They are good bluffers, though, and are able to hiss quite loudly but if unhappy about something.
Links to photos and further info about Gopher Snakes;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki /Pituophis_catenifer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki /Pituophis_catenifer)
https://www.californiaherps.com /snakes/pages/p.c.catenifer .html (https://www.californiaherps.com /snakes/pages/p.c.catenifer .html)
https://www.kingsnake.com /pituophis/species.html (https://www.kingsnake.com /pituophis/species.html)
Cheers! and Hiya MIles, Hiya! Hope you had a great trip!
I was lucky enough to see four of them in 30 minutes a week and a half ago at Shollenberger Park in Petaluma.
They are perfectly harmless but can put on quite a display of hissing and pretend striking. About 1 out of 10 will actually try to bite you if you pick it up. And they will shake their tails in dry grass which will sound like a rattlesnake.
A rattlesnake always has rattles tho' and generally keeps his rattle off the ground so you can see and hear it better. A gopher shakes its' tail flat on the ground so it actually can make a sound in dry leaves or grass. A rattler never hisses either but a gopher snakes hiss can sound a bit like the buzz of a rattlesnake.
Really big gophers are getting very rare these days but can reach seven feet historically. Biggest I've ever seen was a nice fat six footer at Harbin Hot Springs about 25 years ago...most top out at a skinny four or five feet these days.
To i.d. any snake in California check out......
California Reptiles and Amphibians (https://www.californiaherps.com/)
Here's a newsletter I did last year on the Pacific Gopher Snake.
Douglas Hall
Hands On Snakes!
707-338-4884
www.handsonsnakes.com (https://www.handsonsnakes.com/)
Snakes for the Classroom~~~The Gopher Snake~~~from Hands On Snakes!
https://www.handsonsnakes.com/ (https://www.handsonsnakes.com/)
The Pacific Gopher Snake is the most commonly encountered snake in the North Bay area. It is closely related to Pine Snakes of the East Coast, and Bull Snakes which ranges from Canada into Mexico. All belong the genus Pituophis.
Gopher Snakes are aptly named for their voracious appetite for gophers and other rodents. A single large gopher snake can constrict and kill several rodents at once when it encounters them in their nesting burrows.
Gopher Snakes may reach lengths of over seven feet but most found in Sonoma, Napa, and Marin Counties will be in the three to five foot range. Males are often seen crossing roads in the Spring looking for mates, and for many this can be a dangerous venture.
Gopher Snakes prefer grassy, dry fields, and can be easily mistaken for rattlesnakes due to their habit of hissing loudly and vibrating their tails. Their coloration is similar as well, usually tannish with brown blotches. If a snake is hissing at you, however, it is not a rattlesnake.
Each can be chased away from a residential area simply by focusing a hose at them, or sweeping them away with a broom. A long stick works well if encountered on the trail.
Gopher snakes are a good choice for the classroom setting. They are temperature hardy, have good appetites, and most will calm down with a few weeks of gentle handling. They are good bluffers, though, and are able to hiss quite loudly but if unhappy about something.
Links to photos and further info about Gopher Snakes;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki /Pituophis_catenifer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki /Pituophis_catenifer)
https://www.californiaherps.com /snakes/pages/p.c.catenifer .html (https://www.californiaherps.com /snakes/pages/p.c.catenifer .html)
https://www.kingsnake.com /pituophis/species.html (https://www.kingsnake.com /pituophis/species.html)
Cheers! and Hiya MIles, Hiya! Hope you had a great trip!
C Tut
05-04-2009, 02:26 PM
We saw one of these beauties last weekend while walking at Ragel park. It was HUGE, at least 4 feet, probably closer to 5. Thanks for the ID, I've never seen such a large snake in the wild in all my years of living in Northern California...
Trevor7
05-04-2009, 09:11 PM
Hello,
It's a harmless (nonvenomous)gopher snake. Very beneficial for keeping the rodent population in check! They are docile and easily handled if you choose to.
It's a harmless (nonvenomous)gopher snake. Very beneficial for keeping the rodent population in check! They are docile and easily handled if you choose to.
Braggi
05-04-2009, 09:55 PM
... They are docile and easily handled if you choose to.
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. This was in Southern CA. He got out of his box and a friend of ours grabbed him a few inches behind the head. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile. This one was about six feet long.
-Jeff
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. This was in Southern CA. He got out of his box and a friend of ours grabbed him a few inches behind the head. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile. This one was about six feet long.
-Jeff
hales
05-04-2009, 10:34 PM
I bet the snake was terrified!
Scott.
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. This was in Southern CA. He got out of his box and a friend of ours grabbed him a few inches behind the head. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile. This one was about six feet long.
-Jeff
Scott.
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. This was in Southern CA. He got out of his box and a friend of ours grabbed him a few inches behind the head. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile. This one was about six feet long.
-Jeff
Braggi
05-04-2009, 10:58 PM
I bet the snake was terrified! ...
I'm sure you're right Scott. I'd never put a wild animal through something like that again if I could help it.
My brother wound up selling it to a pet store for $10. That was the wrong thing to do, of course.
-Jeff
I'm sure you're right Scott. I'd never put a wild animal through something like that again if I could help it.
My brother wound up selling it to a pet store for $10. That was the wrong thing to do, of course.
-Jeff
hales
05-04-2009, 11:20 PM
Jeff, a few years ago, I was at a school outing with my son's middle school class ,in the hills of Sonoma, near Kenwood, and another parent/chaperone was there, who had been trained in survival skills in the Navy..
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_and_evasion)
He walked around during the outing and every once in a while he would take a forked stick and stick it down on the ground, in the grass, between rocks, or in a wood pile, and come up with a live rattlesnake! He would then pick it up behind the head and exhibit it to anyone willing to get close enough to look at it.. the biggest one was about 4 or 5 feet long and a couple of inches thick.. he found that in a wood pile. The smallest one I saw, wriggled out from under the picnic table I was sitting at for an hour or so.. it was just a foot and a half, or so long.
If you ever go to the Sugarloaf Park in the summer, you might want to watch your step!
Scott.
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_and_evasion)
He walked around during the outing and every once in a while he would take a forked stick and stick it down on the ground, in the grass, between rocks, or in a wood pile, and come up with a live rattlesnake! He would then pick it up behind the head and exhibit it to anyone willing to get close enough to look at it.. the biggest one was about 4 or 5 feet long and a couple of inches thick.. he found that in a wood pile. The smallest one I saw, wriggled out from under the picnic table I was sitting at for an hour or so.. it was just a foot and a half, or so long.
If you ever go to the Sugarloaf Park in the summer, you might want to watch your step!
Scott.
hales
05-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Jeff, a few years ago, I was at a school outing with my son's middle school class ,in the hills of Sonoma, near Kenwood, and another parent/chaperone was there, who had been trained in survival skills in the Navy..
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_and_evasion)
He walked around during the outing and every once in a while he would take a forked stick and stick it down on the ground, in the grass, between rocks, or in a wood pile, and come up with a live rattlesnake! He would then pick it up behind the head and exhibit it to anyone willing to get close enough to look at it.. the biggest one was about 4 or 5 feet long and a couple of inches thick.. he found that in a wood pile. The smallest one I saw, wriggled out from under the picnic table I was sitting at for an hour or so.. it was just a foot and a half, or so long. Fortunately, no one was injured or bitten; in fact, the snakes did not seem particularly aggressive. In about 50 years or hiking around Sonoma, I have not found snakes to be very interested in biting or attacking humans, if they are treated with a certain respect and caution. ; )
If you ever go to the Sugarloaf Park in the summer, though, you might want to watch your step!
Scott.
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_and_evasion)
He walked around during the outing and every once in a while he would take a forked stick and stick it down on the ground, in the grass, between rocks, or in a wood pile, and come up with a live rattlesnake! He would then pick it up behind the head and exhibit it to anyone willing to get close enough to look at it.. the biggest one was about 4 or 5 feet long and a couple of inches thick.. he found that in a wood pile. The smallest one I saw, wriggled out from under the picnic table I was sitting at for an hour or so.. it was just a foot and a half, or so long. Fortunately, no one was injured or bitten; in fact, the snakes did not seem particularly aggressive. In about 50 years or hiking around Sonoma, I have not found snakes to be very interested in biting or attacking humans, if they are treated with a certain respect and caution. ; )
If you ever go to the Sugarloaf Park in the summer, though, you might want to watch your step!
Scott.
Braggi
05-05-2009, 06:50 AM
... In about 50 years or hiking around Sonoma, I have not found snakes to be very interested in biting or attacking humans, if they are treated with a certain respect and caution. ; ) ...
That is my experience of snakes in general and rattlesnakes in particular. I have a great deal of respect and gratitude for rattlesnakes because they have had many opportunities to bite me over my life and I've never had one so much as pretend to strike. I would never grab one and pick it up.
I will probably avoid that park in the heat of summer, thanks.
-Jeff
That is my experience of snakes in general and rattlesnakes in particular. I have a great deal of respect and gratitude for rattlesnakes because they have had many opportunities to bite me over my life and I've never had one so much as pretend to strike. I would never grab one and pick it up.
I will probably avoid that park in the heat of summer, thanks.
-Jeff
MsTerry
05-05-2009, 08:50 AM
What did he do with the snakes after he picked them up?
Kill them or set them free?
Jeff, a few years ago, I was at a school outing with my son's middle school class ,in the hills of Sonoma, near Kenwood, and another parent/chaperone was there, who had been trained in survival skills in the Navy..
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_and_evasion)
He walked around during the outing and every once in a while he would take a forked stick and stick it down on the ground, in the grass, between rocks, or in a wood pile, and come up with a live rattlesnake! He would then pick it up behind the head and exhibit it to anyone willing to get close enough to look at it.. the biggest one was about 4 or 5 feet long and a couple of inches thick.. he found that in a wood pile. The smallest one I saw, wriggled out from under the picnic table I was sitting at for an hour or so.. it was just a foot and a half, or so long. Fortunately, no one was injured or bitten; in fact, the snakes did not seem particularly aggressive. In about 50 years or hiking around Sonoma, I have not found snakes to be very interested in biting or attacking humans, if they are treated with a certain respect and caution. ; )
If you ever go to the Sugarloaf Park in the summer, though, you might want to watch your step!
Scott.
Kill them or set them free?
Jeff, a few years ago, I was at a school outing with my son's middle school class ,in the hills of Sonoma, near Kenwood, and another parent/chaperone was there, who had been trained in survival skills in the Navy..
Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_and_evasion)
He walked around during the outing and every once in a while he would take a forked stick and stick it down on the ground, in the grass, between rocks, or in a wood pile, and come up with a live rattlesnake! He would then pick it up behind the head and exhibit it to anyone willing to get close enough to look at it.. the biggest one was about 4 or 5 feet long and a couple of inches thick.. he found that in a wood pile. The smallest one I saw, wriggled out from under the picnic table I was sitting at for an hour or so.. it was just a foot and a half, or so long. Fortunately, no one was injured or bitten; in fact, the snakes did not seem particularly aggressive. In about 50 years or hiking around Sonoma, I have not found snakes to be very interested in biting or attacking humans, if they are treated with a certain respect and caution. ; )
If you ever go to the Sugarloaf Park in the summer, though, you might want to watch your step!
Scott.
decterlove
05-05-2009, 08:38 PM
No fangs on a gopher snake, Braggi, just a lot of little sharp teeth like fish, curved backwards to pull their prey in. Bites don't hurt much from a snake under 8 feet (colubrids anyway...some pythons and boas, especially tree boas, have extra long teeth to snare birds out of the air and that could be an ouchy!) but they are startling and they can bleed a lot.
If one decides to pick up a harmless snake (being able to id it correctly is. of course, the desirable prerequisite...) it is not a good idea to do so by grabbing it near the head, or by the tail for that matter either. Either approach strongly suggests predator to a serpent.
Try lifting it up gently one third up from the tail and one third down from the head, supporting it a way that minimizes it's fear of falling. Many fewer snakes will attempt to bite you if you use this approach.
Nice to see all this interest generated in my favorite vertebrates.
Here's another enewsletter on the Pacific Rattlesnake....
Douglas Hall
Hands On Snakes!
707-338-4884
www.handsonsnakes.com (https://www.handsonsnakes.com)
Snakes NOT for the Classroom~~The Pacific Rattler~~~~from Hands On Snakes!
https://www.handsonsnakes.com/
Now that the real heat of the summer is upon us in California , one snake that will surely be on everybody's mind is the Northern Pacific Rattlesnake!
Just the word "Rattler!" strikes terror in most people's minds, and our local rattler, the Northern Pacific, is really a very impressive serpent indeed. There are 13 other rattlesnake species that find habitat in California but most of these just barely encroach the state's southeastern border with Arizona . The two main species in our state are the Southern and the Northern Pacific.
These highly venomous pit vipers (the pit refers to the small heat sensitive pits found halfway between the eyes and the nostrils) are fairly large snakes, potentially reaching just over five feet in length. Their stout bodies make them look even larger to the untrained eye. I have had more than a few people tell me they've seen a rattler that was stretched completely across a road which would make the serpent in question over ten feet long! This is simply the power of imagination soundly defeating the power of observation.
As impressive, scary looking, and dangerous as rattlesnakes are, however, they should never ruin anyone's picnic, or pleasant outing in the wild. They are much less aggressive animals than most people tend to believe. And while if encountered on a hot day they may seem to move quickly if disturbed, it is almost always in the other direction. If a rattlesnake were to move straight towards you it would only be because it was confused and would still be very unlikely to bite if you just remained still and let it pass by.
So when is there just cause to be legitimately concerned about rattlesnakes?
Certainly there is cause to be concerned with potential encounters with pets and the Pacific rattler. Dogs and cats don't seem to be naturally afraid of rattlesnakes and there are services now offered to instill a healthy fear of rattlers in dogs. Cats unfortunately cannot be so easily persuaded and may be used to poking anything that moves (especially with a tail!) in their immediate environment. A bite to a cat or a dog is a very serious matter but many small pets surprisingly survive these incidents and fully recover.
There is also reason for legitimate concern for children that may also not have the correct instinct in place yet when encountering these dangerous reptiles. Children should be instructed in identifing rattlesnakes if they are common in the immediate area, and to not pick up snakes unless they are absolutely certain of their identity. It is not really that difficult to discern a rattlesnake from one of the many harmless snakes in our area. Here are a few clues.
Rattlesnakes never hiss! Rattlesnakes alway have a rattle unless they have lost the tip of their tail accidentally (I've never ever seen this in 28 years of observing rattlesnakes in California but I did see a Kingsnake once missing the last few inches of its' tail.) Rattlesnakes also have a distinct heart shaped viperish head that Gopher Snakes will try to mimic by flattening their heads, but this is almost always accompanied by loud hissing which again a rattlesnake is not capable of doing.
A rattler will also always lift the working end of its' tail up off the ground so that you can hear and see it better! Gopher Snakes and other harmless snakes will frequently vibrate their tails but keep them flat on the ground so they will be able to generate sound in dry grass or leaves.
For adults living in rattlesnake country, there are three simple admonishments that will prevent 99.99 (and more!) % of all possible envenomations. One, don't handle them! (This seems like an easy one for most people but to some, it is a bit challenging!) Second, watch where you put your hands while gardening, cleaning up yard debris, or restacking the woodpile. Wear long heavy gloves whenever in doubt! These will protect you from venomous spider bites as well. And third, watch where you step! This applies especially to wandering around a campsite on a very hot summer night. Often, snakes will wait out the intense heat of the day to crawl around after dark. Use a flashlite!
(see the third weblink below here for further tips in snake country!)
A rattlesnake is usually very hesitant to waste its' precious supply of venom unless it feels truly threatened. It is highly unlikely one will strike at you unless you actually step on it, attempt to pick it up, or step very, very close to it on a hot day. I've stepped an inch away from one's head that was coiled up in a streambed without incident. If you can just keep 18 inches away from the serpent in question, you will be 100% safe. And in the worst case scenario, take comfort in knowing that 25% of all bites are termed dry bites, i.e., no actually venom is injected. Lucky you!
Links to photos and further info about Rattlesnakes;
https://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/c.o.oreganus.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_oreganus
https://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/snake.html
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile.
-Jeff
If one decides to pick up a harmless snake (being able to id it correctly is. of course, the desirable prerequisite...) it is not a good idea to do so by grabbing it near the head, or by the tail for that matter either. Either approach strongly suggests predator to a serpent.
Try lifting it up gently one third up from the tail and one third down from the head, supporting it a way that minimizes it's fear of falling. Many fewer snakes will attempt to bite you if you use this approach.
Nice to see all this interest generated in my favorite vertebrates.
Here's another enewsletter on the Pacific Rattlesnake....
Douglas Hall
Hands On Snakes!
707-338-4884
www.handsonsnakes.com (https://www.handsonsnakes.com)
Snakes NOT for the Classroom~~The Pacific Rattler~~~~from Hands On Snakes!
https://www.handsonsnakes.com/
Now that the real heat of the summer is upon us in California , one snake that will surely be on everybody's mind is the Northern Pacific Rattlesnake!
Just the word "Rattler!" strikes terror in most people's minds, and our local rattler, the Northern Pacific, is really a very impressive serpent indeed. There are 13 other rattlesnake species that find habitat in California but most of these just barely encroach the state's southeastern border with Arizona . The two main species in our state are the Southern and the Northern Pacific.
These highly venomous pit vipers (the pit refers to the small heat sensitive pits found halfway between the eyes and the nostrils) are fairly large snakes, potentially reaching just over five feet in length. Their stout bodies make them look even larger to the untrained eye. I have had more than a few people tell me they've seen a rattler that was stretched completely across a road which would make the serpent in question over ten feet long! This is simply the power of imagination soundly defeating the power of observation.
As impressive, scary looking, and dangerous as rattlesnakes are, however, they should never ruin anyone's picnic, or pleasant outing in the wild. They are much less aggressive animals than most people tend to believe. And while if encountered on a hot day they may seem to move quickly if disturbed, it is almost always in the other direction. If a rattlesnake were to move straight towards you it would only be because it was confused and would still be very unlikely to bite if you just remained still and let it pass by.
So when is there just cause to be legitimately concerned about rattlesnakes?
Certainly there is cause to be concerned with potential encounters with pets and the Pacific rattler. Dogs and cats don't seem to be naturally afraid of rattlesnakes and there are services now offered to instill a healthy fear of rattlers in dogs. Cats unfortunately cannot be so easily persuaded and may be used to poking anything that moves (especially with a tail!) in their immediate environment. A bite to a cat or a dog is a very serious matter but many small pets surprisingly survive these incidents and fully recover.
There is also reason for legitimate concern for children that may also not have the correct instinct in place yet when encountering these dangerous reptiles. Children should be instructed in identifing rattlesnakes if they are common in the immediate area, and to not pick up snakes unless they are absolutely certain of their identity. It is not really that difficult to discern a rattlesnake from one of the many harmless snakes in our area. Here are a few clues.
Rattlesnakes never hiss! Rattlesnakes alway have a rattle unless they have lost the tip of their tail accidentally (I've never ever seen this in 28 years of observing rattlesnakes in California but I did see a Kingsnake once missing the last few inches of its' tail.) Rattlesnakes also have a distinct heart shaped viperish head that Gopher Snakes will try to mimic by flattening their heads, but this is almost always accompanied by loud hissing which again a rattlesnake is not capable of doing.
A rattler will also always lift the working end of its' tail up off the ground so that you can hear and see it better! Gopher Snakes and other harmless snakes will frequently vibrate their tails but keep them flat on the ground so they will be able to generate sound in dry grass or leaves.
For adults living in rattlesnake country, there are three simple admonishments that will prevent 99.99 (and more!) % of all possible envenomations. One, don't handle them! (This seems like an easy one for most people but to some, it is a bit challenging!) Second, watch where you put your hands while gardening, cleaning up yard debris, or restacking the woodpile. Wear long heavy gloves whenever in doubt! These will protect you from venomous spider bites as well. And third, watch where you step! This applies especially to wandering around a campsite on a very hot summer night. Often, snakes will wait out the intense heat of the day to crawl around after dark. Use a flashlite!
(see the third weblink below here for further tips in snake country!)
A rattlesnake is usually very hesitant to waste its' precious supply of venom unless it feels truly threatened. It is highly unlikely one will strike at you unless you actually step on it, attempt to pick it up, or step very, very close to it on a hot day. I've stepped an inch away from one's head that was coiled up in a streambed without incident. If you can just keep 18 inches away from the serpent in question, you will be 100% safe. And in the worst case scenario, take comfort in knowing that 25% of all bites are termed dry bites, i.e., no actually venom is injected. Lucky you!
Links to photos and further info about Rattlesnakes;
https://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/pages/c.o.oreganus.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_oreganus
https://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/snake.html
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile.
-Jeff
hales
05-05-2009, 08:50 PM
What did he do with the snakes after he picked them up?
Kill them or set them free?
er.. once again I posted privately, to Ms. T., but in this case I wanted to reply to the group..
No, he just showed the rattle snakes to the kids and set them free, away from the group camping area we were using.
However, another time, his daughter did bring some rattlesnake meat to a charter school event, celebrating pioneer living.. ; )
I tried it: Tastes a lot like chicken..
His name is Rob Lyons, and he actually rescues animals and takes care of them. He has a locally famous camel,
as well as other animals, that he takes around to nursing homes and schools.
sonomanews.com > News (https://www.sonomanews.com/articles/2007/11/28/news/doc473cf9a326d02414842181.txt)
btw, Kazzie the Camel is quite gregarious and seems to enjoy visiting people.
Scott.
Kill them or set them free?
er.. once again I posted privately, to Ms. T., but in this case I wanted to reply to the group..
No, he just showed the rattle snakes to the kids and set them free, away from the group camping area we were using.
However, another time, his daughter did bring some rattlesnake meat to a charter school event, celebrating pioneer living.. ; )
I tried it: Tastes a lot like chicken..
His name is Rob Lyons, and he actually rescues animals and takes care of them. He has a locally famous camel,
as well as other animals, that he takes around to nursing homes and schools.
sonomanews.com > News (https://www.sonomanews.com/articles/2007/11/28/news/doc473cf9a326d02414842181.txt)
btw, Kazzie the Camel is quite gregarious and seems to enjoy visiting people.
Scott.
hales
05-05-2009, 08:56 PM
That is my experience of snakes in general and rattlesnakes in particular. I have a great deal of respect and gratitude for rattlesnakes because they have had many opportunities to bite me over my life and I've never had one so much as pretend to strike. I would never grab one and pick it up.
I will probably avoid that park in the heat of summer, thanks.
-Jeff
Years ago, I used to work at a retreat center on the west side of Sonoma Valley, (Westerbeke Ranch) and one time there was a really big rattlesnake in the ivy near some cottages. Because of it's proximity to the guest cottages, (and the absence of someone trained in SERE ; ), someone decided to try to kill it with a shovel. The person tried repeatedly to chop it with the shovel and the snake managed to dodge the chopping blows, but declined to rattle or strike.. eventually a detente was reached and the snake slithered away..
Which sort of makes the point, that it's the humans one has to beware of.. the animals are generally not looking to hurt anyone, if it's not part of their normal diet/prey.
Also, I really appreciate this discussion, because it may bring more attention to the fact that human fears are out of proportion to the reality of the risk posed by wild animals.. maybe we can have a discussion of mountain lions and/or even, gasp, spiders, if there hasn't already been one!
; [ fangs, again!
Scott.
I will probably avoid that park in the heat of summer, thanks.
-Jeff
Years ago, I used to work at a retreat center on the west side of Sonoma Valley, (Westerbeke Ranch) and one time there was a really big rattlesnake in the ivy near some cottages. Because of it's proximity to the guest cottages, (and the absence of someone trained in SERE ; ), someone decided to try to kill it with a shovel. The person tried repeatedly to chop it with the shovel and the snake managed to dodge the chopping blows, but declined to rattle or strike.. eventually a detente was reached and the snake slithered away..
Which sort of makes the point, that it's the humans one has to beware of.. the animals are generally not looking to hurt anyone, if it's not part of their normal diet/prey.
Also, I really appreciate this discussion, because it may bring more attention to the fact that human fears are out of proportion to the reality of the risk posed by wild animals.. maybe we can have a discussion of mountain lions and/or even, gasp, spiders, if there hasn't already been one!
; [ fangs, again!
Scott.
MsTerry
05-05-2009, 10:08 PM
Mountain lion mauls dog that defended owners (https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090506/ap_on_re_us/us_mountain_lion_attack)
Years ago, I used to work at a retreat center on the west side of Sonoma Valley, (Westerbeke Ranch) and one time there was a really big rattlesnake in the ivy near some cottages. Because of it's proximity to the guest cottages, (and the absence of someone trained in SERE ; ), someone decided to try to kill it with a shovel. The person tried repeatedly to chop it with the shovel and the snake managed to dodge the chopping blows, but declined to rattle or strike.. eventually a detente was reached and the snake slithered away..
Which sort of makes the point, that it's the humans one has to beware of.. the animals are generally not looking to hurt anyone, if it's not part of their normal diet/prey.
Also, I really appreciate this discussion, because it may bring more attention to the fact that human fears are out of proportion to the reality of the risk posed by wild animals.. maybe we can have a discussion of mountain lions and/or even, gasp, spiders, if there hasn't already been one!
; [ fangs, again!
Scott.
Years ago, I used to work at a retreat center on the west side of Sonoma Valley, (Westerbeke Ranch) and one time there was a really big rattlesnake in the ivy near some cottages. Because of it's proximity to the guest cottages, (and the absence of someone trained in SERE ; ), someone decided to try to kill it with a shovel. The person tried repeatedly to chop it with the shovel and the snake managed to dodge the chopping blows, but declined to rattle or strike.. eventually a detente was reached and the snake slithered away..
Which sort of makes the point, that it's the humans one has to beware of.. the animals are generally not looking to hurt anyone, if it's not part of their normal diet/prey.
Also, I really appreciate this discussion, because it may bring more attention to the fact that human fears are out of proportion to the reality of the risk posed by wild animals.. maybe we can have a discussion of mountain lions and/or even, gasp, spiders, if there hasn't already been one!
; [ fangs, again!
Scott.
ladyjoni
05-06-2009, 12:16 PM
My brother captured a large gopher snake when I was a kid. This was in Southern CA. He got out of his box and a friend of ours grabbed him a few inches behind the head. The snake threw his coils around my friends arm and proceeded to sink his fangs to full depth. There was quite a bit of blood, I remember. I wouldn't call them all docile. This one was about six feet long.
-Jeff
Gopher snakes DO NOT HAVE FANGS! They have very small teeth that go slightly inwards. If you are bitten and pull your hand out you can get scraped. If you had a snake with fangs, it probably was a rattler of some kind
-Jeff
Gopher snakes DO NOT HAVE FANGS! They have very small teeth that go slightly inwards. If you are bitten and pull your hand out you can get scraped. If you had a snake with fangs, it probably was a rattler of some kind
Braggi
05-06-2009, 12:25 PM
Gopher snakes DO NOT HAVE FANGS! ...
Got it. Uncle!
I was a kid. It was 45 years ago. It wasn't me. My friend had big gobs of blood coming out of his arm. What can I tell you? The snake buried his little tiny fish like teeth up to the gums in my friend's arm. Then he bled a lot. But they weren't fangs!
Thank you very much.
Love,
-Jeff
Got it. Uncle!
I was a kid. It was 45 years ago. It wasn't me. My friend had big gobs of blood coming out of his arm. What can I tell you? The snake buried his little tiny fish like teeth up to the gums in my friend's arm. Then he bled a lot. But they weren't fangs!
Thank you very much.
Love,
-Jeff
Valley Oak
05-06-2009, 12:27 PM
I had no idea that my simple request for a snake ID was going to inspire such a lively thread.
I'll have to post wild animal pictures more often and ask the community questions about them to see what happens. Where we live, which is in an unincorporated area of the county (just outside Santa Rosa city limits), there are many feral animals that wander through our property, such as raccoons, foxes, skunks, hawks, other weird animals that I don't know the name for, deer, etc. Next time I'll just pull out my camera and then post the image on this list and see what happens.
I usually get long, entertaining threads by posting political commentaries but now I'm adding a wildlife component to my posts.
(We also keep rabbits, chickens, and bees.)
Edward
I'll have to post wild animal pictures more often and ask the community questions about them to see what happens. Where we live, which is in an unincorporated area of the county (just outside Santa Rosa city limits), there are many feral animals that wander through our property, such as raccoons, foxes, skunks, hawks, other weird animals that I don't know the name for, deer, etc. Next time I'll just pull out my camera and then post the image on this list and see what happens.
I usually get long, entertaining threads by posting political commentaries but now I'm adding a wildlife component to my posts.
(We also keep rabbits, chickens, and bees.)
Edward
"Mad" Miles
05-06-2009, 06:12 PM
there are many feral animals that wander through our property, such as raccoons, foxes, skunks, hawks, other weird animals that I don't know the name for, deer, etc.
Edward
Edward/Valley Oak,
Feral means "domesticated but returned to the wild" the animals you list are just wild, not feral.
You do like to provoke, don't you? Have you considered that real communication seeks consensus, or at least mutual understanding, not "sturm und drang"?
Free Okili! Bring him home!!!
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
Edward
Edward/Valley Oak,
Feral means "domesticated but returned to the wild" the animals you list are just wild, not feral.
You do like to provoke, don't you? Have you considered that real communication seeks consensus, or at least mutual understanding, not "sturm und drang"?
Free Okili! Bring him home!!!
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
hales
05-06-2009, 07:21 PM
Hey, "Mad" Miles,
What is provocative about that? It sounds like a slightly inaccurate use of the word feral.. probably 1 out of 2 folks wouldn't know the difference.. ?
..possibly, not even inaccurate:
feral |ˈfi(ə)rəl; ˈferəl|
adjective
(esp. of an animal) in a wild state, esp. after escape from captivity or domestication : a feral cat.
• resembling a wild animal : a feral snarl.
ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from Latin fera ‘wild animal’ (from ferus ‘wild’ ) + -al .
from New Oxford American Dictionary
(Sorry, if I'm just being a bit argumentative, I've been home sick all day.. and actually the tone of your post seems quite aggressive, even "feral".. )
Do you guys have some history, or something?
I think the term feral seems to mean "like a wild animal".. and one could perhaps make a point that many wild animals are highly adapted to humans, so they are truly not as wild as those who live away from us guys.)
It's funny how humans often tend to project their own feelings on animals, as well as on each other! The more I know about people the more I respect animals.. they have an excuse for their behavior, at least.
grrr. Woof! ; )
Scott.
Edward/Valley Oak,
Feral means "domesticated but returned to the wild" the animals you list are just wild, not feral.
You do like to provoke, don't you? Have you considered that real communication seeks consensus, or at least mutual understanding, not "sturm und drang"?
Free Okili! Bring him home!!!
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
What is provocative about that? It sounds like a slightly inaccurate use of the word feral.. probably 1 out of 2 folks wouldn't know the difference.. ?
..possibly, not even inaccurate:
feral |ˈfi(ə)rəl; ˈferəl|
adjective
(esp. of an animal) in a wild state, esp. after escape from captivity or domestication : a feral cat.
• resembling a wild animal : a feral snarl.
ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from Latin fera ‘wild animal’ (from ferus ‘wild’ ) + -al .
from New Oxford American Dictionary
(Sorry, if I'm just being a bit argumentative, I've been home sick all day.. and actually the tone of your post seems quite aggressive, even "feral".. )
Do you guys have some history, or something?
I think the term feral seems to mean "like a wild animal".. and one could perhaps make a point that many wild animals are highly adapted to humans, so they are truly not as wild as those who live away from us guys.)
It's funny how humans often tend to project their own feelings on animals, as well as on each other! The more I know about people the more I respect animals.. they have an excuse for their behavior, at least.
grrr. Woof! ; )
Scott.
Edward/Valley Oak,
Feral means "domesticated but returned to the wild" the animals you list are just wild, not feral.
You do like to provoke, don't you? Have you considered that real communication seeks consensus, or at least mutual understanding, not "sturm und drang"?
Free Okili! Bring him home!!!
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
hales
05-06-2009, 08:16 PM
Wow, the line between animals and humans is not as clear as one might think.. Rock your Cockatoo!
YouTube - Snowball - Our Dancing Cockatoo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7IZmRnAo6s)
YouTube - Snowball - Our Dancing Cockatoo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7IZmRnAo6s)
decterlove
05-06-2009, 08:55 PM
Favorite snake poem.........and I be chill. I love this one tho....
The Snake in September
by Stanley Kunitz
All summer I heard them rustling in the shrubbery,
outracing me from tier to tier in my garden,
a whisper among the viburnums,
a signal flashed from the hedgerow,
a shadow pulsing in the barberry thicket.
Now that the nights are chill
and the annuals spent,
I should have thought them gone,
in a torpor of blood
slipped to the nether world before the sickle frost.
Not so. In the deceptive balm
of noon, as if defiant of the
curse
that spoiled another garden,
these two appear on show through a narrow slit
in the dense green brocade of a north-country spruce,
dangling head-down, entwined
in a brazen love-knot.
I put out my hand and stroke
the fine, dry grit of their skins.
After all,
we are partners in this land,
co-signers of a covenant.
At my touch the wild braid of creation
trembles.
Live Hands On Snakes! programs for Kids of All Ages....3 to 103!
The Snake in September
by Stanley Kunitz
All summer I heard them rustling in the shrubbery,
outracing me from tier to tier in my garden,
a whisper among the viburnums,
a signal flashed from the hedgerow,
a shadow pulsing in the barberry thicket.
Now that the nights are chill
and the annuals spent,
I should have thought them gone,
in a torpor of blood
slipped to the nether world before the sickle frost.
Not so. In the deceptive balm
of noon, as if defiant of the
curse
that spoiled another garden,
these two appear on show through a narrow slit
in the dense green brocade of a north-country spruce,
dangling head-down, entwined
in a brazen love-knot.
I put out my hand and stroke
the fine, dry grit of their skins.
After all,
we are partners in this land,
co-signers of a covenant.
At my touch the wild braid of creation
trembles.
Live Hands On Snakes! programs for Kids of All Ages....3 to 103!
"Mad" Miles
05-06-2009, 09:00 PM
Hey, "Mad" Miles,
What is provocative about that?... Scott...
Scott/Hales,
By "provoke" I was referring to Edward/Valley Oak's proclivity for epateeing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pater_la_bourgeoisie) whoever he can, not his erroneous use of the word feral.
Your comments about the nature of wild animals are well taken.
Still recovering from ten days on the road and at two music festivals,
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
What is provocative about that?... Scott...
Scott/Hales,
By "provoke" I was referring to Edward/Valley Oak's proclivity for epateeing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pater_la_bourgeoisie) whoever he can, not his erroneous use of the word feral.
Your comments about the nature of wild animals are well taken.
Still recovering from ten days on the road and at two music festivals,
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
decterlove
05-06-2009, 09:15 PM
How about a new thread chronicling your travels for those sleeping in bunk beds with jail cell mattresses and dreaming of a brighter tomorrow......full of Kmarts and brand new 501s?
but Tomorrow Never Knows...does it?
Don't cha like that poem, don't cha, don't cha? Welcome back to the State of Californieaye, Miles....met someone who attended San Quentin today and was able to take advantage of some of the very interesting programs it offers like Attitudinal Healing, etc and came out an Enlightened Man....mighta been thru your program MM didn't get a chance to discuss it in depth...
Interesting group I'm hanging out with here at the Mary Isaak Center, Ptown, Ca...(don't tell anyone I'm actually homeless please...I'm trying to keep it a bit undercover) A few feral characters here and there....but it feels like a Big House to me!
Chill Bills! And let's make sure Miles shares his road adventures with us stuck in the muds.....signing off...no more talk of snakes here from me!
Did ya see any on your road trip Miles? Did you eat any good Epate?
Still recovering from ten days on the road and at two music festivals,
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
but Tomorrow Never Knows...does it?
Don't cha like that poem, don't cha, don't cha? Welcome back to the State of Californieaye, Miles....met someone who attended San Quentin today and was able to take advantage of some of the very interesting programs it offers like Attitudinal Healing, etc and came out an Enlightened Man....mighta been thru your program MM didn't get a chance to discuss it in depth...
Interesting group I'm hanging out with here at the Mary Isaak Center, Ptown, Ca...(don't tell anyone I'm actually homeless please...I'm trying to keep it a bit undercover) A few feral characters here and there....but it feels like a Big House to me!
Chill Bills! And let's make sure Miles shares his road adventures with us stuck in the muds.....signing off...no more talk of snakes here from me!
Did ya see any on your road trip Miles? Did you eat any good Epate?
Still recovering from ten days on the road and at two music festivals,
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
hales
05-06-2009, 09:22 PM
Well, I'm curious about the other side of the story but not enough to exhume a lot of old posts.. there are so many to keep up with in "real time"! ; )
Thanks for the new-to-me word.. epateeing.. wouldn't it be more like epatage, or some-such, though? Yup, yup.. google agrees with me!
btw, I need some rest too.. : )
Scott..
Scott/Hales,
By "provoke" I was referring to Edward/Valley Oak's proclivity for epateeing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pater_la_bourgeoisie) whoever he can, not his erroneous use of the word feral.
Your comments about the nature of wild animals are well taken.
Still recovering from ten days on the road and at two music festivals,
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
Thanks for the new-to-me word.. epateeing.. wouldn't it be more like epatage, or some-such, though? Yup, yup.. google agrees with me!
btw, I need some rest too.. : )
Scott..
Scott/Hales,
By "provoke" I was referring to Edward/Valley Oak's proclivity for epateeing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pater_la_bourgeoisie) whoever he can, not his erroneous use of the word feral.
Your comments about the nature of wild animals are well taken.
Still recovering from ten days on the road and at two music festivals,
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
hales
05-06-2009, 09:30 PM
Oui, je suis un epateur, aussi.. ; )
Scott.
Epatant, epatarouflant, adj.
(general), wonderful ; wondrous,
"stunning," "crushing."
Epate, /. (general), faire de 1' ,
to sho-M off.
Epatement, m. (general), as-
tonishment.
Epater, epataroufler (general),
quelqu'un, to astound one, to make
him wonder at something or other.
Epateur, m., epateuse, /. (gene-
ral), one -who shows off ; one who
tries to astound people by showing
off.
</pre>
Scott.
Epatant, epatarouflant, adj.
(general), wonderful ; wondrous,
"stunning," "crushing."
Epate, /. (general), faire de 1' ,
to sho-M off.
Epatement, m. (general), as-
tonishment.
Epater, epataroufler (general),
quelqu'un, to astound one, to make
him wonder at something or other.
Epateur, m., epateuse, /. (gene-
ral), one -who shows off ; one who
tries to astound people by showing
off.
</pre>
Valley Oak
05-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Dearest and esteemed gentlemen, Miles, Scott, and Douglass:
Thank you for the very flattering debate over my persona and my philosophical and motivational proclivities. This is a true compliment.
However, I must warn you that you have unwittingly fed my narcissistic ego and further encouraged my controversial behavior and I'm not sure that this is what you actually want to do.
I strongly recommend that you immediately engage in dialog (or non-dialog) to deflate and dissuade my obsessive compulsive personality. This is best accomplished by simply not talking about me anymore or my "theories" (by comparing them with obscure intellectual European movements as if I was not here).
This said, I have been researching the terms Miles used, terms that I was unfamiliar with and found this information to be fascinating. When I learned that Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Wilde, and Chekhov were among a long list of intellectuals who are identified with the Decadent Movement (Decadent movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadent_movement)) I just had to read on.
Consequently, I had to ask myself if Chekhov's literary contributions influenced Lenin and Trotsky and therefore, indirectly at least, also influenced the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.
I also wonder if Oscar Wilde, who was a homosexual in a puritan, Victorian Britain, was shaped as a great author by his highly conflictive circumstances and that this was what put him in the group of the 'Decadents.' Wilde was imprisoned for his homosexuality.
Thank you again, gentlemen,
Edward
Thank you for the very flattering debate over my persona and my philosophical and motivational proclivities. This is a true compliment.
However, I must warn you that you have unwittingly fed my narcissistic ego and further encouraged my controversial behavior and I'm not sure that this is what you actually want to do.
I strongly recommend that you immediately engage in dialog (or non-dialog) to deflate and dissuade my obsessive compulsive personality. This is best accomplished by simply not talking about me anymore or my "theories" (by comparing them with obscure intellectual European movements as if I was not here).
This said, I have been researching the terms Miles used, terms that I was unfamiliar with and found this information to be fascinating. When I learned that Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Wilde, and Chekhov were among a long list of intellectuals who are identified with the Decadent Movement (Decadent movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadent_movement)) I just had to read on.
Consequently, I had to ask myself if Chekhov's literary contributions influenced Lenin and Trotsky and therefore, indirectly at least, also influenced the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.
I also wonder if Oscar Wilde, who was a homosexual in a puritan, Victorian Britain, was shaped as a great author by his highly conflictive circumstances and that this was what put him in the group of the 'Decadents.' Wilde was imprisoned for his homosexuality.
Thank you again, gentlemen,
Edward
hales
05-07-2009, 12:44 PM
Edward,
those are Illustrious/infamous people to be associated with.. I don't think it would discourage me, either.. I wouldn't want to actually BE one of them,
but I sure do find them interesting.
I think Oscar Wilde actually was very successful within the society in which he lived, until he underestimated the powers-that-be, in a series of law-suits involving one "Bosie", aka Lord Alfred Douglas, the son of a nobleman, the Marquess of Queensbury.. (no snickers, please ; )
An Account of the Three Trials of Oscar Wilde (https://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/wilde/wildeaccount.html)
Scott.
Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. ..Oscar Wilde
Dearest and esteemed gentlemen, Miles, Scott, and Douglass:
Thank you for the very flattering debate over my persona and my philosophical and motivational proclivities. This is a true compliment.
However, I must warn you that you have unwittingly fed my narcissistic ego and further encouraged my controversial behavior and I'm not sure that this is what you actually want to do.
I strongly recommend that you immediately engage in dialog (or non-dialog) to deflate and dissuade my obsessive compulsive personality. This is best accomplished by simply not talking about me anymore or my "theories" (by comparing them with obscure intellectual European movements as if I was not here).
This said, I have been researching the terms Miles used, terms that I was unfamiliar with and found this information to be fascinating. When I learned that Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Wilde, and Chekhov were among a long list of intellectuals who are identified with the Decadent Movement (Decadent movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadent_movement)) I just had to read on.
Consequently, I had to ask myself if Chekhov's literary contributions influenced Lenin and Trotsky and therefore, indirectly at least, also influenced the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.
I also wonder if Oscar Wilde, who was a homosexual in a puritan, Victorian Britain, was shaped as a great author by his highly conflictive circumstances and that this was what put him in the group of the 'Decadents.' Wilde was imprisoned for his homosexuality.
Thank you again, gentlemen,
Edward
those are Illustrious/infamous people to be associated with.. I don't think it would discourage me, either.. I wouldn't want to actually BE one of them,
but I sure do find them interesting.
I think Oscar Wilde actually was very successful within the society in which he lived, until he underestimated the powers-that-be, in a series of law-suits involving one "Bosie", aka Lord Alfred Douglas, the son of a nobleman, the Marquess of Queensbury.. (no snickers, please ; )
An Account of the Three Trials of Oscar Wilde (https://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/wilde/wildeaccount.html)
Scott.
Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. ..Oscar Wilde
Dearest and esteemed gentlemen, Miles, Scott, and Douglass:
Thank you for the very flattering debate over my persona and my philosophical and motivational proclivities. This is a true compliment.
However, I must warn you that you have unwittingly fed my narcissistic ego and further encouraged my controversial behavior and I'm not sure that this is what you actually want to do.
I strongly recommend that you immediately engage in dialog (or non-dialog) to deflate and dissuade my obsessive compulsive personality. This is best accomplished by simply not talking about me anymore or my "theories" (by comparing them with obscure intellectual European movements as if I was not here).
This said, I have been researching the terms Miles used, terms that I was unfamiliar with and found this information to be fascinating. When I learned that Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Wilde, and Chekhov were among a long list of intellectuals who are identified with the Decadent Movement (Decadent movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadent_movement)) I just had to read on.
Consequently, I had to ask myself if Chekhov's literary contributions influenced Lenin and Trotsky and therefore, indirectly at least, also influenced the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.
I also wonder if Oscar Wilde, who was a homosexual in a puritan, Victorian Britain, was shaped as a great author by his highly conflictive circumstances and that this was what put him in the group of the 'Decadents.' Wilde was imprisoned for his homosexuality.
Thank you again, gentlemen,
Edward