Truth in Relationships

[CSummer]

My mind has a powerful built-in censor. It seems to detect what is appropriate or acceptable for a situation and blocks out everything else. Sometimes. Occasionally it seems to go out to lunch, but this is not very often. If this censor were either 100% on the job or never on the job, things might go better.

When it/he is on the job, I may have little awareness of what is true for me on some levels of my being (e.g., physical, emotional, child, adolescent or intuitive levels) in certain situations. In the presence of someone with whom I'm in an important relationship, the censor tries to be most "on his toes," ready to close my mind's doors or curtains when certain truths threaten to become evident. When this happens, I can lose touch with what is true for me, and then I can't speak my truth. I cannot say what I really want or don't want, because I'm not fully in touch with my true feelings, needs and wishes. I gather that I'm not the only one who has had this experience.

So why is this a problem? First, because I have an ideal vision of a relationship that is based on and grounded in what's true for us, and of the dance we do together - whatever it may be - arising from that truth. My belief is that when this is happening, we have the greatest likelihood of creating a relationship that works well for both of us, one in which we both know what is possible and what is not for any given moment in time, so we avoid illusions, unrealistic expectations and much disappointment. Instead, we enjoy and grow from what is there to enjoy and celebrate together. We support each other in the ways we feel good about and turn to others for other kinds of support.

Second, it's a problem because when I don't speak my whole truth, I abandon a part of myself, and eventually that part may insist on being heard. This seems to happen especially when I'm feeling very weak or needy. Maybe that's when the censor takes a break, because that's when this abandoned part of me can come out - often with anger at having been ignored. And often there is blame and criticism because of the fear and sense of powerlessness that comes from being stifled and abandoned.

And, third, I give up my power, and after a while may feel powerless to create a relationship that works well for me on all levels. This can be a source of hidden resentment and block passion and feelings of love.

The censor seems to be an inherent part of my mind, and I hesitate to condemn any part of me as bad or useless. I would rather come to understand it so I can work with it in more useful ways. There may be situations where it is quite useful. But when I'm wanting to build a conscious relationship with someone, - one that includes all of who we are - the censor becomes a serious impairment. What is this censor really? I think it is simply a function of my mind (perhaps largely unconscious) trying to get certain needs met. It is programmed to sense the needs and expectations of another person and then try to make me into the kind of person who meets those needs and expectations. One of the ways it does this is by constricting my awareness of what's true for me. When the ante seems so high - when my deepest needs and longings seem to be at stake - we can't risk being too open and honest. Think what could happen!

And so we create a relationship that is based more on fear than on truth. The fear may be very real, and even reach the level of terror. What if she/he sees or knows what I really feel, think and want on all levels?! All could be lost! But what is lost if I allow that fear to block out much of what is true for me and who I am? My inner integrity as a human and an opportunity to grow in courage, self-awareness, understanding and appreciation may well be sacrificed in hopes of realizing some adolescent (or even infantile) fantasy. We may also lose the opportunity to discover the real potential of a conscious relationship - one grounded in and arising from our truth as self-aware humans, which could be quite amazing and wonderful!

Can I find the courage within to risk all in favor of being completely open and honest, even if I have to spend time alone to tune into what’s true for me? Can I ask for your support and encouragement to be myself and express my truth without leaving out anything relevant to our relationship? And can I offer you that same support and encouragement? I don't think we're here to play roles that fit each other's fantasies. But I do believe that together we can create a nurturing, supportive environment in which to grow and learn, to discover how we can best meet our needs and fulfill our highest aspirations.

[MsTerry]

My son is in the stage of wanting to say everything that he thinks is true. Of course it is always about other people, mainly his sister. I try to teach him that we don't always need to say what we perceive as the truth, especially when it is not a kind thing, (censoring is good)
We can say the truth, as we see it, when asked for, but should consider if it will be helpful when it concerns others. Otherwise it will be a righteousness thing, and that is the truth,


My mind has a powerful built-in censor. It seems to detect what is appropriate or acceptable for a situation and blocks out everything else. Sometimes. Occasionally it seems to go out to lunch, but this is not very often. If this censor were either 100% on the job or never on the job, things might go better.

When it/he is on the job, I may have little awareness of what is true for me on some levels of my being (e.g., physical, emotional, child, adolescent or intuitive levels) in certain situations. In the presence of someone with whom I'm in an important relationship, the censor tries to be most "on his toes," ready to close my mind's doors or curtains when certain truths threaten to become evident. When this happens, I can lose touch with what is true for me, and then I can't speak my truth. I cannot say what I really want or don't want, because I'm not fully in touch with my true feelings, needs and wishes. I gather that I'm not the only one who has had this experience.

So why is this a problem? First, because I have an ideal vision of a relationship that is based on and grounded in what's true for us, and of the dance we do together - whatever it may be - arising from that truth. My belief is that when this is happening, we have the greatest likelihood of creating a relationship that works well for both of us, one in which we both know what is possible and what is not for any given moment in time, so we avoid illusions, unrealistic expectations and much disappointment. Instead, we enjoy and grow from what is there to enjoy and celebrate together. We support each other in the ways we feel good about and turn to others for other kinds of support.

Second, it's a problem because when I don't speak my whole truth, I abandon a part of myself, and eventually that part may insist on being heard. This seems to happen especially when I'm feeling very weak or needy. Maybe that's when the censor takes a break, because that's when this abandoned part of me can come out - often with anger at having been ignored. And often there is blame and criticism because of the fear and sense of powerlessness that comes from being stifled and abandoned.

And, third, I give up my power, and after a while may feel powerless to create a relationship that works well for me on all levels. This can be a source of hidden resentment and block passion and feelings of love.

The censor seems to be an inherent part of my mind, and I hesitate to condemn any part of me as bad or useless. I would rather come to understand it so I can work with it in more useful ways. There may be situations where it is quite useful. But when I'm wanting to build a conscious relationship with someone, - one that includes all of who we are - the censor becomes a serious impairment. What is this censor really? I think it is simply a function of my mind (perhaps largely unconscious) trying to get certain needs met. It is programmed to sense the needs and expectations of another person and then try to make me into the kind of person who meets those needs and expectations. One of the ways it does this is by constricting my awareness of what's true for me. When the ante seems so high - when my deepest needs and longings seem to be at stake - we can't risk being too open and honest. Think what could happen!

And so we create a relationship that is based more on fear than on truth. The fear may be very real, and even reach the level of terror. What if she/he sees or knows what I really feel, think and want on all levels?! All could be lost! But what is lost if I allow that fear to block out much of what is true for me and who I am? My inner integrity as a human and an opportunity to grow in courage, self-awareness, understanding and appreciation may well be sacrificed in hopes of realizing some adolescent (or even infantile) fantasy. We may also lose the opportunity to discover the real potential of a conscious relationship - one grounded in and arising from our truth as self-aware humans, which could be quite amazing and wonderful!

Can I find the courage within to risk all in favor of being completely open and honest, even if I have to spend time alone to tune into what’s true for me? Can I ask for your support and encouragement to be myself and express my truth without leaving out anything relevant to our relationship? And can I offer you that same support and encouragement? I don't think we're here to play roles that fit each other's fantasies. But I do believe that together we can create a nurturing, supportive environment in which to grow and learn, to discover how we can best meet our needs and fulfill our highest aspirations.

[CSummer]

Thanks for this, MsTerry.

Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks have written about what they call "telling the unarguable truth." By this, they mean sharing what we experience in our bodies: our real feelings and needs. Some of our perceptions also may fall into this category, though it's not uncommon to misperceive things and to express judgments or conclusions about what we perceive rather than our actual experience.

It seems that what works best in terms of truth-sharing in relationships is to stick to what we experience as true for us within our own beings. I try to remember to use words like "It seems . . ." or "I imagine . . ." when I'm expressing what I perceive about another person. This avoids a lot of wasted energy in needless arguments, especially if I invite the other to let me know if my perception is erroneous. Example: You seem kind of down today. Is that how you're feeling?

If anyone is interested in coming together in a group to learn and practice conscious, compassionate communication, I would love to hear from you.



My son is in the stage of wanting to say everything that he thinks is true. Of course it is always about other people, mainly his sister. I try to teach him that we don't always need to say what we perceive as the truth, especially when it is not a kind thing, (censoring is good)
We can say the truth, as we see it, when asked for, but should consider if it will be helpful when it concerns others. Otherwise it will be a righteousness thing, and that is the truth,

[nurturetruth]

My son is in the stage of wanting to say everything that he thinks is true. Of course it is always about other people, mainly his sister. I try to teach him that we don't always need to say what we perceive as the truth, especially when it is not a kind thing, (censoring is good)
We can say the truth, as we see it, when asked for, but should consider if it will be helpful when it concerns others. Otherwise it will be a righteousness thing, and that is the truth,



If ur son was really speaking his truth and what is true for him, it seems his focus would be more about him than it would be about others. And if willing, truth can be recognized and learned to be shared in a way that is not unkind.
If ur son were up for a good challenge, I feel/think it might be interesting to see if he could identify/distinguish the difference between what is true for him versus what a 'judgment' might be. It is interesting to me in that it seems so easy to also mix up the difference between having an opinion and passing a judgement. An opinion is a bit softer energy and more of a perception (to recognize,envision,understand) until it becomes a judgment. It is my understanding that passing a "judgment" is a way of expessing an opinion that becomes more of an "evaluation".

Discernment is always good. Sometimes there are better times to express or hear what is true than at other times. There are always other ways of communicating what is true for us in a kind thoughtful manner versus an unloving unkind way. We just have to want to.

I am not sure if i enjoy the notion of "censoring the truth" .









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[MsTerry]

Yes, truth, judgement and opinion are all so close and intertwined, It is hard enough for grown-ups to keep it straight.
I wasn't trying to teach him to censor "the truth", merely trying to encourage him to develop an inner censor, one that can speak the truth when appropriate.


If ur son was really speaking his truth and what is true for him, it seems his focus would be more about him than it would be about others. And if willing, truth can be recognized and learned to be shared in a way that is not unkind.
If ur son were up for a good challenge, I feel/think it might be interesting to see if he could identify/distinguish the difference between what is true for him versus what a 'judgment' might be. It is interesting to me in that it seems so easy to also mix up the difference between having an opinion and passing a judgement. An opinion is a bit softer energy and more of a perception (to recognize,envision,understand) until it becomes a judgment. It is my understanding that passing a "judgment" is a way of expessing an opinion that becomes more of an "evaluation".

Discernment is always good. Sometimes there are better times to express or hear what is true than at other times. There are always other ways of communicating what is true for us in a kind thoughtful manner versus an unloving unkind way. We just have to want to.

I am not sure if i enjoy the notion of "censoring the truth" .





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[CSummer]

This morning (before reading nurturetruth's post) I wrote: When I don't distinguish between what is true for me (what I'm feeling, needing, believing) from what I imagine or project on another, I may well cause difficulties for myself or the other by making her/him responsible for what I'm experiencing. I was amazed, delighted - and perhaps a tiny bit miffed (that was my line!:wink:) - to see n-t's sentence that said a very similar thing.

An example might be helpful:

I look at someone else and think, 'He's fat and ugly!' That he is fat is a judgment with perhaps some basis in observation. That he is "ugly" is purely my projection. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is ugliness. No matter how many people agreed with me, none of us are talking about any real attribute of the person we've observed, but only expressing our dislike for his appearance. A truly responsible and truthful way of expressing this might be: He appears to be carrying considerable extra weight, and when I look at him, feelings of fear and helplessness - perhaps even anger - come up in me due to some of my past experiences with men that he reminds me of.

Saying or thinking "he's ugly" is a way of avoiding my true feelings by imagining that there's something about the other that is bad or wrong. My mind focuses outward as a way of not being present with my true inner experience. I find it helpful to hold the view that if I have a problem with someone else, it's my problem.The other person has just done me the service of exposing something that's unresolved within me.

If I find myself focusing on what seems negative about another, it might be a good time to ask what is true for me that I'm having difficulty fully experiencing. And ask it with total self-acceptance, compassion and a willingness to know and understand myself better.

I think that as I develop the ability to distinguish between my own real experience and what I'm imagining or projecting and my communication comes to reflect that awareness, others will have a much easier time hearing what I have to express. This seems essential to building a truly functional, loving, conscious relationship.




If ur son was really speaking his truth and what is true for him, it seems his focus would be more about him than it would be about others. And if willing, truth can be recognized and learned to be shared in a way that is not unkind.
If ur son were up for a good challenge, I feel/think it might be interesting to see if he could identify/distinguish the difference between what is true for him versus what a 'judgment' might be. It is interesting to me in that it seems so easy to also mix up the difference between having an opinion and passing a judgement. An opinion is a bit softer energy and more of a perception (to recognize,envision,understand) until it becomes a judgment. It is my understanding that passing a "judgment" is a way of expessing an opinion that becomes more of an "evaluation".

Discernment is always good. Sometimes there are better times to express or hear what is true than at other times. There are always other ways of communicating what is true for us in a kind thoughtful manner versus an unloving unkind way. We just have to want to.

I am not sure if i enjoy the notion of "censoring the truth" .





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[Sara S]

There's a big difference between "righteous" and "self-righteous," no?


My son is in the stage of wanting to say everything that he thinks is true. Of course it is always about other people, mainly his sister. I try to teach him that we don't always need to say what we perceive as the truth, especially when it is not a kind thing, (censoring is good)
We can say the truth, as we see it, when asked for, but should consider if it will be helpful when it concerns others. Otherwise it will be a righteousness thing, and that is the truth,

[Jason 17]

My mind has a powerful built-in censor. It seems to detect what is appropriate or acceptable for a situation and blocks out everything else. Sometimes. Occasionally it seems to go out to lunch, but this is not very often. If this censor were either 100% on the job or never on the job, things might go better.

When it/he is on the job, I may have little awareness of what is true for me on some levels of my being (e.g., physical, emotional, child, adolescent or intuitive levels) in certain situations. In the presence of someone with whom I'm in an important relationship, the censor tries to be most "on his toes," ready to close my mind's doors or curtains when certain truths threaten to become evident. When this happens, I can lose touch with what is true for me, and then I can't speak my truth. I cannot say what I really want or don't want, because I'm not fully in touch with my true feelings, needs and wishes. I gather that I'm not the only one who has had this experience.

So why is this a problem? First, because I have an ideal vision of a relationship that is based on and grounded in what's true for us, and of the dance we do together - whatever it may be - arising from that truth. My belief is that when this is happening, we have the greatest likelihood of creating a relationship that works well for both of us, one in which we both know what is possible and what is not for any given moment in time, so we avoid illusions, unrealistic expectations and much disappointment. Instead, we enjoy and grow from what is there to enjoy and celebrate together. We support each other in the ways we feel good about and turn to others for other kinds of support.

Second, it's a problem because when I don't speak my whole truth, I abandon a part of myself, and eventually that part may insist on being heard. This seems to happen especially when I'm feeling very weak or needy. Maybe that's when the censor takes a break, because that's when this abandoned part of me can come out - often with anger at having been ignored. And often there is blame and criticism because of the fear and sense of powerlessness that comes from being stifled and abandoned.

And, third, I give up my power, and after a while may feel powerless to create a relationship that works well for me on all levels. This can be a source of hidden resentment and block passion and feelings of love.

The censor seems to be an inherent part of my mind, and I hesitate to condemn any part of me as bad or useless. I would rather come to understand it so I can work with it in more useful ways. There may be situations where it is quite useful. But when I'm wanting to build a conscious relationship with someone, - one that includes all of who we are - the censor becomes a serious impairment. What is this censor really? I think it is simply a function of my mind (perhaps largely unconscious) trying to get certain needs met. It is programmed to sense the needs and expectations of another person and then try to make me into the kind of person who meets those needs and expectations. One of the ways it does this is by constricting my awareness of what's true for me. When the ante seems so high - when my deepest needs and longings seem to be at stake - we can't risk being too open and honest. Think what could happen!

And so we create a relationship that is based more on fear than on truth. The fear may be very real, and even reach the level of terror. What if she/he sees or knows what I really feel, think and want on all levels?! All could be lost! But what is lost if I allow that fear to block out much of what is true for me and who I am? My inner integrity as a human and an opportunity to grow in courage, self-awareness, understanding and appreciation may well be sacrificed in hopes of realizing some adolescent (or even infantile) fantasy. We may also lose the opportunity to discover the real potential of a conscious relationship - one grounded in and arising from our truth as self-aware humans, which could be quite amazing and wonderful!

Can I find the courage within to risk all in favor of being completely open and honest, even if I have to spend time alone to tune into what’s true for me? Can I ask for your support and encouragement to be myself and express my truth without leaving out anything relevant to our relationship? And can I offer you that same support and encouragement? I don't think we're here to play roles that fit each other's fantasies. But I do believe that together we can create a nurturing, supportive environment in which to grow and learn, to discover how we can best meet our needs and fulfill our highest aspirations. Very well said. You expressed the process in relationships that I struggle with.In general I strive for the two of us to give each other self.What I mean is that I learn more about me when I'm with you(as well as learning about you).Not attributing my "stuff" or "reactions" to you and finding a way to let the defenses down once and for all.

[CSummer]

Very well said. You expressed the process in relationships that I struggle with.In general I strive for the two of us to give each other self.What I mean is that I learn more about me when I'm with you(as well as learning about you).Not attributing my "stuff" or "reactions" to you and finding a way to let the defenses down once and for all.

Thanks for this, Jason. Yes, can we allow each other to be who and as we are, and create a space of welcome and appreciation for all of who we are? And have it be a no-fault, no-blame collaboration? This seems to be the challenge!

[Jason 17]

Having that consciousness while in the relationship instead of postmortem the ultimate goal for me.The deal I'd like to make,although I'm not sure it's healthy,is I'll make my world about you if you make your world about me.What do you think?

[alanora]

no deal....keep reading me


Having that consciousness while in the relationship instead of postmortem the ultimate goal for me.The deal I'd like to make,although I'm not sure it's healthy,is I'll make my world about you if you make your world about me.What do you think?

[CSummer]

Having that consciousness while in the relationship instead of postmortem the ultimate goal for me.The deal I'd like to make,although I'm not sure it's healthy,is I'll make my world about you if you make your world about me.What do you think?

That's an interesting way to put it, Jason. I have heard a similar approach expressed by the leader of a small community (not sure if they're still around). They called it being in service to each other, or something to that effect. One can choose this approach to relationships - and - I would be pretty concerned about it being problematic and, for most, ultimately unworkable.

One sense I have is that it could be a denial of some deeper truth, which is that on some level we all want to be taken care of. We want someone to be there for us in the ways our parents weren't able or willing to be. The problem is that once we're adults, we're not likely to find someone who is willing to deny their own needs and longings to be there for us as we might need or want. Was anyone put here to be devoted solely to me? Was I put here to be solely devoted to someone else?

It seems to me that no one can truly meet our needs for us. We can, though, support each other in getting our needs met. So for me, the preferred approach is to come together with the purpose of co-creating an environment in which all of our emotional needs can be fulfilled. We do this simply by offering what we ourselves need: safety, acceptance, respect, caring presence, compassion, openness and honesty, appreciation, permission, validation and encouragement. It's sort of the Golden Rule applied to relationships, families or groups. As we come to know each other in such a supportive environment, we also come to know ourselves more deeply than we never have before.

Another thing I seem to be learning is that it is absolutely essential for me to be grounded and centered in my truth: what I'm feeling, needing, perceiving, believing and wanting. My experience is that this can be very challenging, as I wrote in the initial post. It can also be very scary, like we must risk all so as not to lose ourselves. The truth we leave out now, though, may eventually demand to be seen and heard - and do so in ways that aren't harmonious.

What are we here for? My view is that we're here to realize our own highest potential and our own soul's purpose. It is possible that being in service to another is truly our way of doing that. I think though, that for most of us, relationships are more likely to succeed when we don't leave ourselves out, when we build them around an inclusive awareness of what's true for both - or all - of us. Focusing too much on the needs of another can be a way of neglecting taking care of ourselves and living our own lives, i.e., avoiding the challenges and responsibilities of being autonomous adults.

May we build loving relationships that are all-encompassing, accepting and supportive!

[Jason 17]

What you say is truth.I have been looking for someone to take care of me or save me.In return I would be loyal,loving and fun.I lose myself in that deal and am looking at how to do it differently--though the lure is strong.Telling the truth as my truth is revealed to me seems to be a good begining.Sharing whatever confusion,doubt or fears arise regardless of how it makes me look being a part of telling the truth.Yes it's scary, but if I'm ever to achieve undefended love I think this is the path.Patterns of old,hurts of old and beliefs of old get in the way because I resisted.Being alone and unloved my greatest fear now my friend and teacher.I tear up just writing about it.I have more of me available.

[laughing.linda]

I am an admirer of Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks' work. Left a copy of Conscious Loving with my lover in CO this past trip. Yes, I'm interested in exploring conscious communication further. Especially with myself...

[alanora]

Undefended Love..forward by the Hendricks's................


I am an admirer of Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks' work. Left a copy of Conscious Loving with my lover in CO this past trip. Yes, I'm interested in exploring conscious communication further. Especially with myself...

[alanora]

Why so resistant to your world being your world......figure out how to be as passionately interested in the way your personality functions as you would be in your lovers splanation of hers......


Having that consciousness while in the relationship instead of postmortem the ultimate goal for me.The deal I'd like to make,although I'm not sure it's healthy,is I'll make my world about you if you make your world about me.What do you think?

[laughing.linda]

Library copies are checked out,
Copperfield's has it in paperback, heading down there as soon as I eat a salad.

which reminds me they are also holding the Auyvedic cookbook (I ordered for a present), no I don't cook...

raw food = no pots to wash!

happy rain day and thanks for the book referral

[Jason 17]

Undefended Love..forward by the Hendricks's................
In all honesty I don't always know what my truth is.I'll think I'm sharing a truth and afterwards I wonder; was that bull so that I could recieve a certain kind of response or was that really me.Sometimes it's hard to distill that part of me that wants to be liked and well thought of from the "being" without all that other stuff on top.

[CSummer]

In all honesty I don't always know what my truth is.I'll think I'm sharing a truth and afterwards I wonder; was that bull so that I could recieve a certain kind of response or was that really me.Sometimes it's hard to distill that part of me that wants to be liked and well thought of from the "being" without all that other stuff on top.


Yes, I know this experience well, Jason. It's what I have called a "pattern:" behaving in a certain way with the unconscious hope that the other will respond in a way that meets some deep need. What's sad - and kind of silly - is that if we were really aware of what we were needing or wanting and could just ask for it in a straightforward way, we might have a better chance of getting it. It also seems to me that when I'm 'running a pattern,' the stronger the need is, the harder my mind works to keep my awareness narrowly focused on the other person rather than on what is really true for me.

I think one reason we do this is that along with most of our deep, unmet needs is the belief that they cannot be met and that they are unacceptable in some way - perhaps that there is something wrong with us for having these needs. So we probably have a lot of fear and embarrassment around being open and honest in expressing them. The 'pattern' is the mind's somewhat devious way of trying to meet a need while denying it.

Support and solitude are what I have found to work best to enable me to become aware of the truth that's otherwise difficult for me to see. If I take the time to focus on the questions: What am I feeling, needing, wanting, hoping for? - the answer usually comes. Writing in a journal has been very helpful for me as a focusing tool when I'm in solitude.

Taking time to visualize what it is I really want to experience in a relationship, including imagining how I want to feel, could be a worthwhile activity. Can I have an image of being grounded and centered in my truth while I'm in the company of a "significant other?" Can I offer myself total acceptance, compassion and permission to be as I am, knowing that all my needs and feelings are okay? Can I visualize having the courage to express what is true for me regardless of how silly or unacceptable it might seem, knowing that as long as it's my own "unarguable truth" - what I experience within my own being and free of blame or judgment - it is okay? Can I imagine speaking my truth and being open to hearing any response the other might have, knowing that I am okay and will be okay regardless of how she/he responds?

Being able to speak my truth and to hear what's true for another is essential if we're to move beyond the projection and infatuation stage to a true intimacy that is based on real mutual knowing, accepting and caring. It seems that our patterns are based on projection rather than on actually seeing the other as they are in an all-inclusive way. As we come to know someone deeply and fully, our projections are harder to maintain.

Love, I think, wants to liberate all the parts of us that have been too long locked up within our psyches in the zone of untouchables. Sometimes, though, the gates may get thrown open faster than we can handle well. Can we accompany love with the light of our awareness, the gentleness of our compassion and the warmth of our acceptance?

We need all the help we can get, and sometimes one relationship is not a large enough container for all that comes up needing healing within us. Have you noticed, as I have, that it can be easier to offer caring, supportive attention to someone else than to offer it to ourselves? This can actually be a good thing when we're in a group, because we can experience receiving quality attention if everyone agrees to simply offer what they seek. And as we receive, we can begin to internalize caring attitudes that enable us to be more deeply present with ourselves. In time, we may even experience some of our deepest emotional needs being met as the caring acceptance, interest, appreciation and encouragement of others finds its way to the parts of ourselves that are most in need. Then there is the possibility for healing to occur as we realize the old beliefs and self-protective strategies are no longer needed and we can let them go. We might even discover that some of these needs have little present-day validity but are just hold-overs from unresolved early-life experiences.

May we find our way together
to be at peace, in love,
and joy-full!

[Jason 17]

Again profound words that hit targets very deep,not so easily answered.Part of my personal pain is linked to events long ago.Realizing that I not a small child suffering,that I'm an adult now able to take care of myself and no matter what happens out there that in here I won't abandon myself,lose myself in relationship or sacrifice she or me.That's the goal anyway.I 'm willing to hang in,tell the truth and hopefully not run away(I have run in the past).In that instant that I want to run,before taking that first step,having the consciousness to stop and share what's going on inside me may change the outcome.Yes solitude does help, for some it's their solution but not for me.

[hales]

Hi, Jason.
I think I can relate to some of what you have described going through. It sounds to me like you have a lot of feelings of loss and lonliness and unmet needs from the past, and continuing into the present.. (don't we all?)

(Please forgive all the "you" statements that follow.. I'm really just talking to myself.. ; )

What I think is important is to be willing to experience what is going on inside of you (of me), and be present for yourself (myself); with your (my) present situation, feelings, thoughts, relationships, etc.. It's important to start nurturing and taking care of yourself first, because you are not going to get someone else to do it in a healthy way, unless you are somewhat grounded and present for yourself. (that's my current observation and experience..), and believe me, I have been as needy or more needy than most people, at least in my own thoughts and feelings. As I take better care of myself, I start to feel more independent and that I have something to offer others, rather than just a lot of needs and desires. It seems to help attract others in a different way.. perhaps people are more comfortable with me, when I don't need them in the same dependent way. Showing up and being authentic is more fun for me and for my friends and my lover/lovee.. and when I slip back into those older patterns, I can see how it affects my relationships with others.

Sometimes I feel I have to actually re-parent myself, and sometimes I even visualize doing so at different times in my life, from prenatal to my current age.. 55. Giving myself all the love and attention that I would have likked to have in my ideal childhood, etc. It's surprising how effective this can sometimes be.

I also try to be aware of my "self-talk".. how I talk to myself during the day, and how I talk about myself to others.. often I catch myself being fairly negative, and I try to replace this with more constructive ways of talking to myself, and expressing myself to others. It's a process, man! I try to imagine the potential me, without all the baggage! To live as that guy.. ; )

Another thought that occurs to me, is.. it's not all about me! Often, I'm just telling myself a story, perhaps so I can make some kind of sense of things.

Instead, I can simply listen and "just be" with others sometimes. It's a challenge for me, but this seems to be something that is "up" for me. It takes a load off, when I can remember it. Not only that, but the stories other people tell, are also just stories.. I don't really have to buy into their stories, either.

Don't get me wrong, I still have some feelings of vulnerability and neediness, but lately, I'm trying to just be present with those feelings and own them, instead of trying so hard to get rid of them, find someone to fill the hole or trying to sedate them.

I believe that solitude and contemplation are important, but practicing interacting with other has been really important to me in my path, too. (I am a massage therapist, so I look at that as a practice, as I need to keep refining my interactions and communications, there. I also love the Soul Motion dance on Sundays, where, for me, there is a definite evolution and refinemment of being with and interacting with others, on the dance floor.)
And.. I also find that discussing things on line, has been a growth experience for me, a sort of safe laboratory to explore relationships and communications, without to many consequences.. or at least physical ones.

I wish you all the support and love that you need to find your way to a more satisfying way of being with yourself and others.. and I wish for that for myself and all of us, here, too! : )

Scott.


Again profound words that hit targets very deep,not so easily answered.Part of my personal pain is linked to events long ago.Realizing that I not a small child suffering,that I'm an adult now able to take care of myself and no matter what happens out there that in here I won't abandon myself,lose myself in relationship or sacrifice she or me.That's the goal anyway.I 'm willing to hang in,tell the truth and hopefully not run away(I have run in the past).In that instant that I want to run,before taking that first step,having the consciousness to stop and share what's going on inside me may change the outcome.Yes solitude does help, for some it's their solution but not for me.

[Jason 17]

Hi, Jason.
I think I can relate to some of what you have described going through. It sounds to me like you have a lot of feelings of loss and lonliness and unmet needs from the past, and continuing into the present.. (don't we all?)

(Please forgive all the "you" statements that follow.. I'm really just talking to myself.. ; )

What I think is important is to be willing to experience what is going on inside of you (of me), and be present for yourself (myself); with your (my) present situation, feelings, thoughts, relationships, etc.. It's important to start nurturing and taking care of yourself first, because you are not going to get someone else to do it in a healthy way, unless you are somewhat grounded and present for yourself. (that's my current observation and experience..), and believe me, I have been as needy or more needy than most people, at least in my own thoughts and feelings. As I take better care of myself, I start to feel more independent and that I have something to offer others, rather than just a lot of needs and desires. It seems to help attract others in a different way.. perhaps people are more comfortable with me, when I don't need them in the same dependent way. Showing up and being authentic is more fun for me and for my friends and my lover/lovee.. and when I slip back into those older patterns, I can see how it affects my relationships with others.

Sometimes I feel I have to actually re-parent myself, and sometimes I even visualize doing so at different times in my life, from prenatal to my current age.. 55. Giving myself all the love and attention that I would have likked to have in my ideal childhood, etc. It's surprising how effective this can sometimes be.

I also try to be aware of my "self-talk".. how I talk to myself during the day, and how I talk about myself to others.. often I catch myself being fairly negative, and I try to replace this with more constructive ways of talking to myself, and expressing myself to others. It's a process, man! I try to imagine the potential me, without all the baggage! To live as that guy.. ; )

Another thought that occurs to me, is.. it's not all about me! Often, I'm just telling myself a story, perhaps so I can make some kind of sense of things.

Instead, I can simply listen and "just be" with others sometimes. It's a challenge for me, but this seems to be something that is "up" for me. It takes a load off, when I can remember it. Not only that, but the stories other people tell, are also just stories.. I don't really have to buy into their stories, either.

Don't get me wrong, I still have some feelings of vulnerability and neediness, but lately, I'm trying to just be present with those feelings and own them, instead of trying so hard to get rid of them, find someone to fill the hole or trying to sedate them.

I believe that solitude and contemplation are important, but practicing interacting with other has been really important to me in my path, too. (I am a massage therapist, so I look at that as a practice, as I need to keep refining my interactions and communications, there. I also love the Soul Motion dance on Sundays, where, for me, there is a definite evolution and refinemment of being with and interacting with others, on the dance floor.)
And.. I also find that discussing things on line, has been a growth experience for me, a sort of safe laboratory to explore relationships and communications, without to many consequences.. or at least physical ones.

I wish you all the support and love that you need to find your way to a more satisfying way of being with yourself and others.. and I wish for that for myself and all of us, here, too! : )

Scott.
I am deeply touched by your reply.You have been there and said much of what is in my heart.I am trying to own and hang with whats mine since the only way out is through me.You were right in that past hurts link to current hurts and the "stories" I tell myself a way of perpetuating a belief.Thank you Scott

[hales]

I am deeply touched by your reply.You have been there and said much of what is in my heart.I am trying to own and hang with whats mine since the only way out is through me.You were right in that past hurts link to current hurts and the "stories" I tell myself a way of perpetuating a belief.Thank you Scott


You're welcome, Jason..
If it helps, I'm sure you are not alone in this, though it may feel like it.. I think the trick is to find a way to feel loved and supported, while you are getting back on your feet, emotionally, (or finding a new kind of footing..) .

What has helped me, a lot, is to become part of small communities and groups with similar interests, values and activities to my own, and then to do my best to be a happy, constructive participant, at least for the time I spend in that/those group/s. This has given me needed experience of healthy interactions, and communication styles, as well as the experience of being loved and accepted as I am, even while I'm going through "hell and high water". We are fortunate to live in an area where it is not hard to find such affinity groups, in fact, it's kinda hard not to bump into them! ; )

However if I identify with my own stories of isolation and loss, I might feel unworthy or afraid to become involved with these kinds of things. This is sort of a thresh-hold that has to be crossed. What I really want and need is to find a way waayy back to where I started and recreate a feeling of trust and openness; to mend the broken bits and heal the hurt parts of myself. I can ask for help, as it seems that you are doing now.. this is a big piece of beginning the healing process, I think!

BTW, what would be a new story that you could tell, that would allow you to let go of old hurts and move on, with new love and support in your life? Where you can be yourself, yet let go of all that is causing or reinforcing pain and isolation? Where you can easily be led to the next step in your path of freedom, love and connection?

btw, I just reconnected with an old buddy, from when I was in my twenties.. he is now 70 and I am 55! What I appreciate about him is that he is fun to hang out with, and if I am (accidently) sort of a jerk, or talk impulsively, he doesn't seem to mind at all, yet I believe if I truly annoyed or offended him, he'd let me know. I think everybody should have at least one or two friends like this. I think many of us have had friends (and/or lovers) who are ready to tell us what is wrong with us!! ; )

I think you are on the right track, Jason. Keep being true to yourself and others, and you will be fine! ; ) :2cents: :heart:

Scott.



S. ; )

[Jason 17]

You're welcome, Jason..
If it helps, I'm sure you are not alone in this, though it may feel like it.. I think the trick is to find a way to feel loved and supported, while you are getting back on your feet, emotionally, (or finding a new kind of footing..) . ...

Hi Scott. In reading "undefended love" I saw myself.The book spoke of cracked identities.Under the surface I already felt unwanted,unloved and unworthy so when touched or jabbed instead of saying "ouch that hurts" or "I don't like that" I exploded,broke off the relationship and ran away.Being conscious of the fractures and reclaiming them part of my healing.Again thanks for your support. Jason