Beach across the street from Old Monte Rio Rd/Lovers Lane

[abg73]

Calling all responsible, caring Guerneville residents!
Is anyone else sickened by the mess left every weekend by young people who have no respect for the use of someone else's property and the destruction and misuse of this great little beach in Guerneville which the public has been generously allowed to use?
I can't even walk down there with my dog because of all the garbage and food left over from people who cannot seem to simply carry back with them what they brought down there. Maybe there all too wasted to care. it makes me very angry.
So I propose this: instead of sitting around being resentful, I would like to start a once a week clean-up with a group of willing members of my community who would meet for just one hour in the morning or evening and help preserve this neighborhood beach. It would take hardly any time at all if we worked together. It is the only way I can think to make a difference. Complaining has got me nowhere and unfortunately, it is the reality that responsible people often have to pick up the slack for the low-grade citizens of our community.
Lets take initiative and be responsible community members before this beautiful little spot gets closed off from the public for good!
Please let me know if you are willing and we can set up the details!!

[pjpete]

Where is this beach, Guerniville or Monte Rio?

[abg73]

Guerneville. Its private property, actually. But the owners graciously allow the public beach access there. Its right next door to the DuBrava complex on River Rd.


Where is this beach, Guerniville or Monte Rio?

[Bugsy]

It isn't private property. It's a dedicated public access (which changes map direction from time to time, depending on the current owner). It's there because when the neighbors of the original Dubrava plan mounted their opposition to the project, there was a threat that the long-time beach access would be closed off. It has always been the historic river access to people who live up Hulbert Creek and the Guernewood Park neighborhood. It's a popular and agreeable place to spend time at the river's edge. Except lately.

When it was Ginger's resort, there was a little post office, some shabby cabins, and the small bar and restaurant overlooking the river. There was a little trailer they took down to the beach (a smaller version of Claire Harris's operation at Johnson's beach), where they sold refreshments and rented canoes. Al Smiley, who was the postmaster, looked after the place every day, cleaned it up, and discouraged drunken assholes. It was relatively safe, clean, family-friendly, and very unlike the place today.

Let's stress that it isn't the largesse of the current owner, Mr.Lok, that makes this place public. It's probably his biggest nightmare, after parking, development-wise. If Mr. Lok tried to remove the public access from his development plan, there would be a big outcry.

I would like to see Mr. Lok turn the property over to Open Space, but in spite of the fact he only paid something like $500k for it, he believes he can still develop some kind of upscale deal there. I have my doubts. I also like Mr. Lok personally.

[RiverMimi]

Thanks for the walk down memory lane, Bugsy! (though you forgot the little dingy laundry on the property which I believe was still accessable in the early 80's). The bar finally burned down in 81 or 82 ?

The beach has always been Gingers to me, and before Dubrava came in an ruined what was left, it was a fantastic beach. One of the few where you could bring your dog(s) too.

I remember being there when they were bulldozing the site, and the final sadness came when they brought down the Guernewood Park sign.

I dont have anything bad to say about the condo's, but that beach should be taken care of. I just dont want to see the lot bulldozed (like everything else these days) and made into a parking lot. This could have been a good spot for the Skate Park or a public access park with lawn, picnic tables etc.

Was Mr Loc the original developer of Dubrava or was it someone else. Everyone in the area at the time was against this development, but he seemed determined to put this thing together. Nearly 30 years later, still an incomplete project.

[RiverMimi]

Calling all responsible, caring Guerneville residents!
Is anyone else sickened by the mess left every weekend by young people who have no respect for the use of someone else's property and the destruction and misuse of this great little beach in Guerneville which the public has been generously allowed to use?
I can't even walk down there with my dog because of all the garbage and food left over from people who cannot seem to simply carry back with them what they brought down there. Maybe there all too wasted to care. it makes me very angry.
So I propose this: instead of sitting around being resentful, I would like to start a once a week clean-up with a group of willing members of my community who would meet for just one hour in the morning or evening and help preserve this neighborhood beach. It would take hardly any time at all if we worked together. It is the only way I can think to make a difference. Complaining has got me nowhere and unfortunately, it is the reality that responsible people often have to pick up the slack for the low-grade citizens of our community.
Lets take initiative and be responsible community members before this beautiful little spot gets closed off from the public for good!
Please let me know if you are willing and we can set up the details!!


Great idea abg, but Im wondering if this might be a problem for the RROC and the redevelopment funds. If this beach and Dubrava empty lot could be made into a park it would be great. Id miss being able to bring my dogs there (I admit I havent in years anyway as I really dont like this beach much anymore) but it would certainly be better then what exists now.

[abg73]

Bugsy,
Thank you very much for the information!
I have been in the area only a couple of years and the little knowledge I have of the community is by asking around in my neighborhood.
This explains more clearly why nothing is being done about the problem.
Its such a shame.
I feel as if West County is among of the "last frontiers" in California ...where everything is still simple, land is appreciated for its worth and people are still respectful and friendly. Having lived many different places including large cities, I feel unbelievably blessed to call the Russian River home. When I witness such a complete lack of appreciation for this beautiful area I am outraged. By whatever means the public is able to use this area, it is truly a gift and should be valued just as is our fortune to reside in this remarkable community.


It isn't private property. It's a dedicated public access (which changes map direction from time to time, depending on the current owner). It's there because when the neighbors of the original Dubrava plan mounted their opposition to the project, there was a threat that the long-time beach access would be closed off. It has always been the historic river access to people who live up Hulbert Creek and the Guernewood Park neighborhood. It's a popular and agreeable place to spend time at the river's edge. Except lately.

When it was Ginger's resort, there was a little post office, some shabby cabins, and the small bar and restaurant overlooking the river. There was a little trailer they took down to the beach (a smaller version of Claire Harris's operation at Johnson's beach), where they sold refreshments and rented canoes. Al Smiley, who was the postmaster, looked after the place every day, cleaned it up, and discouraged drunken assholes. It was relatively safe, clean, family-friendly, and very unlike the place today.

Let's stress that it isn't the largesse of the current owner, Mr.Lok, that makes this place public. It's probably his biggest nightmare, after parking, development-wise. If Mr. Lok tried to remove the public access from his development plan, there would be a big outcry.

I would like to see Mr. Lok turn the property over to Open Space, but in spite of the fact he only paid something like $500k for it, he believes he can still develop some kind of upscale deal there. I have my doubts. I also like Mr. Lok personally.

[Bugsy]

"I feel as if West County is among of the "last frontiers" in California ...where everything is still simple, land is appreciated for its worth and people are still respectful and friendly."

Dream on, ABG73. Last time I talked with Kirk Lok, he wanted 4 or 5 mil for the place.

[Dan Fein]

Sorry for my delayed response on this thread. I'm responding to several posts in the thread.

I applaud abg's proposal to gather community members to volunteer to clean the beach. It's right that the beach is public as is the access to it, but I don't know of anyone who has responsibility to maintain it, so that's the only way it's likely to happen for now. I have been surprised by the number of vehicles parked outside of that property on the last couple of weekends. Go for it abg!

We can't count on anyone else to take care of the beach nor will complaints have much effect because local resources are already overtaxed. Rivermini suggested that RRROC might fund the maintenance, but that cannot happen. By law, redevelopment can do bricks and mortar and cannot do maintenance.

The adjacent property is private and as far as I know Kirk Lok is working through the permit process to develop a hotel there. He and his consultant made a presentation to the Monte Rio Rec and Park board earlier this year and showed his renderings.

It was Paul Wang, not Kirk Lok who developed the Dubrava project. His plan called for a multi-phase development starting with Condos in 3 phases and a hotel, shops and conference center on the property that Kirk now owns. Wang went broke after completing the first phase of the project and another developer completed the condos.

Several people came to RRROC to propose that redevelopment buy the property and make it a park. We got pushback from RR Rec & Park who said they do not have the resources to support it and from Mike Reilly who indicated that he would not support having the County take that property off the tax role nor to remove the possibility of developing the property.

Dan


Calling all responsible, caring Guerneville residents!
Is anyone else sickened by the mess left every weekend by young people who have no respect for the use of someone else's property and the destruction and misuse of this great little beach in Guerneville which the public has been generously allowed to use?
I can't even walk down there with my dog because of all the garbage and food left over from people who cannot seem to simply carry back with them what they brought down there. Maybe there all too wasted to care. it makes me very angry.
So I propose this: instead of sitting around being resentful, I would like to start a once a week clean-up with a group of willing members of my community who would meet for just one hour in the morning or evening and help preserve this neighborhood beach. It would take hardly any time at all if we worked together. It is the only way I can think to make a difference. Complaining has got me nowhere and unfortunately, it is the reality that responsible people often have to pick up the slack for the low-grade citizens of our community.
Lets take initiative and be responsible community members before this beautiful little spot gets closed off from the public for good!
Please let me know if you are willing and we can set up the details!!

[Bugsy]

"Several people came to RRROC to propose that redevelopment buy the property and make it a park. We got pushback from RR Rec & Park who said they do not have the resources to support it and from Mike Reilly who indicated that he would not support having the County take that property off the tax role nor to remove the possibility of developing the property."



And when Efren Carrillo was asked about Dubrava during the supervisor campaign he said he didn't know enough about it to comment.

[ChristineL]

At this point, the hotel is going through. Construction is not starting for about a year. I, for one, never wanted to see this happen. I often work nights, and the way vibrations echo around the hills, the construction will not only be heard, but magnified, around my immediate neighborhood. The increased traffic does not make me happy either. Of course, it may get the present abuses of the public access under control. This around 70 room hotel combined with the 48 unit affordable housing going up downtown certainly would indicate that we don't really have a water supply problem, nor a practically broke Fire Department. I don't know how the RRROC people could be thinking we have the infrastructure or services to support these two projects. The answer seems to be to keep adding assessments to our property taxes. Up here we actually pay 2%, and increasing. Our property taxes are already going up quite a nice little chunk for Sweetwater Springs and our sewer rates are also going up and it's a sure bet the Fire Department will be trying to get their chunk as well. I did find out that the Guerneville Fire Department has never applied to Redevelopment for funding...I think they should try there first. Monte Rio is getting a new fire house through Redevelopment.

I also wonder how long it will take for those who move into the affordable housing to stop appreciating their luck and decide the businesses (it's a mixed zone area) bordering their housing are too noisy, keeping their children up at night, etc. and they proceed to campaign to shut them down. After all those who bought housing near the airport started a lot of complaining when actual planes had the nerve to fly in and out, those around the Wells Fargo Center want the music to stop, and many who moved next to farms have then campaigned against the smells and dust...I don't think increasing housing and then decreasing jobs is a good formula for lowering carbon footprints. Sorry everyone, I'm just venting.

The meeting of Up With Downtown (Guerneville) I sat in on also allowed me to find out that the Sheriff's Department has very little records in terms of complaints regarding the Beach, the noise, etc. CALL, CALL, CALL! Yes, it takes forever for officers to show up..but...if no-one is complaining, there is no reason for added patrols. The number given me by the Sheriff's Department is 565-2121. Every call to that number is logged...a record needs to be built.

If anyone knows, I'd like to find out if along River Road, across from the parking lot for that beach is legal parking. Does anyone know? If no one knows, I'll try to find out. If it's not, I will personally call CHPS daily to come give out tickets...and would appreciate others doing the same. I take the turn onto River Road from Old Monte Rio Road several times a week, and I can't see if there are any cars coming because of those parked cars.

I have been disgusted by the garbage in that field, and on the beach, for several years now. It used to be a nice peaceful place for dog walking and enjoying being by the water...it's not any more. I do want to emphasize that this is not done by our own locals, or the homeless, but by people coming from all over Sonoma County in mostly expensive nice vehicles taking a ton of food down to the beach and leaving a half a ton of garbage when they leave. Someone on this thread said something about public access being the right thing...sorry, I used to a good little liberal hippie who thought there should be public access to all these beautiful areas, not any more. Until the public grows up and learns to respect the places they want to enjoy...they should be kept out. The government can make public access through private property a requirement, but the government does not contribute to maintenance, clean-up, repairs, etc. As I said once before, at this point, I will support any property owner who wants to deny public access. It's bad enough there are those who throw trash and cigarette butts out their car windows as they roll up the hill my house is on and it ends up in my, and my neighbors' yards for us to clean up. I can't imagine having dozens a day actually going through my property.

[ChristineL]

As an add-on to my last post in this thread, what's so affordable about building a housing complex costing $400.000 an apartment to build when many homes can be purchased and fixed up for a lot less at the moment. Wouldn't it make more sense to turn existing empty homes into affordable housing? This was pointed out in a letter to the editor in today's Press Democrat. Empty, abandoned houses in many neighborhoods should still be considered "blight", no matter how many nice high density complexes are built.

[Dan Fein]

I'd like to respond to your questions about what RRROC has done and what the thinking has been.


I don't know how the RRROC people could be thinking we have the infrastructure or services to support these two projects. The Lok project is not a redevelopment project, so I have no comment on that in this context.

There are many reasons one might be opposed to the 5th & Mill project, but lack of water and sewer capacity is not one of them. We were assured that the sewer system can absorb the wastewater from an additional 30 housing units (there are currently 18 units there), and Sweetwater recently replaced the water mains in the area to bring them up to modern standards. (BTW, redevelopment is assisting Sweetwater in the upgrade project.)

Redevelopment itself does not create affordable housing. It encourages private developers to do it by offering them low interest loans in exchange for an affordability covenant that guarantees that the home will remain affordable for up to 55 years. Essentially, that means that any private party can take advantage of the funds but gives up his/her right to benefit from increases in market value beyond cost of living increases. That covenant remains with the property, so a subsequent buyer (who presumably would qualify for affordable housing or would rent to those who do) is subject the same restrictions.

Until Burbank Housing came along we had only had one applicant for redevelopment funds for affordable housing, and he backed out when he fully comprehended this aspect of the transaction.

Burbank Housing, on the other hand, is a non-profit in the business of developing affordable housing. They do this by gathering private investment, generally from wealthy investors who get tax credits for investing in affordable housing. Generally the investors do not get much return on their investment other than the tax credit. Redevelopment's participation in the Burbank project is a low-interest loan for $890,000, which represents less than 5% of the cost of the project.

Burbank's business model depends on dense development - more density than would normally be allowed for a conventional development. The combination of tax credit investment, zoning concessions and low-interest loans are what makes a project like this pencil out, even at $400k per unit.
I could talk about why that cost is as high as it is, but it wouldn't add to this discussion.

It's also important to note that Burbank is not just building the project, they will also operate it once it's built. Operating affordable housing requires a business structure to deal with qualifying tenants and accounting to government agencies that provide housing subsidies. I know of some private landlords that do this, but not many have the ability or patience for it.

It may be that Christine's suggestion to buy individual houses and fix them up would pencil out if the price of the house is low enough, even with the affordability covenants. If there is anyone out there willing to do that business, redevelopment would be interested in working with them.

[jeffsf2002]

I would be happy to meet with some folks on Sunday mornings to help clean up the place. I live in the Dubrava complex and can tell you that we are really sickened by what takes place next door. The amount of trash left behind seems grow every year. The offensive behavior also seems to be getting worse. I agree that it is not local folks doing this, but mostly young "adults" looking for a place to party. A good percentage of these people are drunk when they leave the place around 5-6 pm....I try not to be out on highway 116 between those hours.

I actually hope that the property is developed as the public access would still be allowed but the obnoxious behavior would most likely end. There is a world of difference in how the property is used in the fall and winter. It is unfortunate that the place has been ruined for most of us.





Calling all responsible, caring Guerneville residents!

Is anyone else sickened by the mess left every weekend by young people who have no respect for the use of someone else's property and the destruction and misuse of this great little beach in Guerneville which the public has been generously allowed to use?
I can't even walk down there with my dog because of all the garbage and food left over from people who cannot seem to simply carry back with them what they brought down there. Maybe there all too wasted to care. it makes me very angry.
So I propose this: instead of sitting around being resentful, I would like to start a once a week clean-up with a group of willing members of my community who would meet for just one hour in the morning or evening and help preserve this neighborhood beach. It would take hardly any time at all if we worked together. It is the only way I can think to make a difference. Complaining has got me nowhere and unfortunately, it is the reality that responsible people often have to pick up the slack for the low-grade citizens of our community.
Lets take initiative and be responsible community members before this beautiful little spot gets closed off from the public for good!
Please let me know if you are willing and we can set up the details!!

[bird]

I don't know what will eventually happen with this property, but I know (as a River resident) that the current situation on weekends is totally and completely out of control. I have witnessed folks urinating on the side of the road, at least one local business close by has had several unpleasant encounters with drunk folks either about parking or about urinating IN THE PLANTERS IN FRONT OF HIS BUSINESS.
For the time being, a porta potty (or two) is desperately needed. I know it won't stop all of the above mentioned disgusting behavior, but it'll certainly help. RROC should pay for this basic necessity as long as this property is open to the general public. Just basic sanitation.
That's my two cents.
Peace.







I would be happy to meet with some folks on Sunday mornings to help clean up the place. I live in the Dubrava complex and can tell you that we are really sickened by what takes place next door. The amount of trash left behind seems grow every year. The offensive behavior also seems to be getting worse. I agree that it is not local folks doing this, but mostly young "adults" looking for a place to party. A good percentage of these people are drunk when they leave the place around 5-6 pm....I try not to be out on highway 116 between those hours.

I actually hope that the property is developed as the public access would still be allowed but the obnoxious behavior would most likely end. There is a world of difference in how the property is used in the fall and winter. It is unfortunate that the place has been ruined for most of us.

[ChristineL]

There used be a porta-potty, it was knocked over onto its side at least three times a week.

I talked to the CHPS office today and was told that the Sheriff's office and the Highway Patrol were well aware of the problems and going there a lot more often. The CHPS phone # for this area is 707-588-1400. You see someone driving drunk, call, give the license number and direction. I was trying to find out about the legality of the parking. Apparently, unless there are NoParking signs, you can park there. I'm going to call County Roads, 707-565-3626 about getting No Parking signs put in. Coming off of Old Monte Road, you can't see what's coming from the Monte Rio direction as the parked cars block the view (the road is curved). As many as are parked in front of the gate into the property, an emergency vehicle can't get close to the entrance, and the bus stop is blocked with the buses having to stop nearly in the middle of River Road. All this is a safety issue. Everyone who is concerned, please keep calling the Authorities and call County Roads, the more calls the better the chance of getting something done.

There are so many cars and trucks parked in that area that the plant nursery has no parking left for their customers, not to mention that their visibility is seriously cut.



I don't know what will eventually happen with this property, but I know (as a River resident) that the current situation on weekends is totally and completely out of control. I have witnessed folks urinating on the side of the road, at least one local business close by has had several unpleasant encounters with drunk folks either about parking or about urinating IN THE PLANTERS IN FRONT OF HIS BUSINESS.
For the time being, a porta potty (or two) is desperately needed. I know it won't stop all of the above mentioned disgusting behavior, but it'll certainly help. RROC should pay for this basic necessity as long as this property is open to the general public. Just basic sanitation.
That's my two cents.
Peace.

[ChristineL]

I was sent a private email stating: "What's your problem, it's Summer, people are having fun".

I hardly know where to begin. Elderly people, women with babies, the disabled having to stand in the street waiting for a bus, trash in our water source The Russian River, trash covering someone's property because he has to provide public access, drunk people driving our local roads, continuous loud noise into the night so the nearby residents have no peace. If you feel it's ok to trash a place, interfere with someone's business, drive drunk, and create a dangerous road situation so you have fun, I feel sorry for your neighbors and hope you won't be raising any children...

[abg73]

I have actually noticed the police around a lot more, especially over this last weekend. I was talking with a friend the other day who had recently had a conversation with an officer about the trash issue and the officer's response was essentially, a proverbial throwing up of hands in exasperation with the rest of us. He remarked to my friend that they actually used to have people come in to clean up the beach but as of now it seems a moot point. "Perhaps," he said, "the beach will eventually get so full of garbage and cigarette butts and broken glass that it won't be a pleasant place to hang out anymore and people will move on."
So, is that our only recourse? Stand by and watch? Or, is it a matter of principle? It is our beach, it is our community...
I would love to know whether the person who sent you that private email is a local and if so, how it is possible that the complete disrespect of land and property (not to mention common courtesy) is his or her idea of "summer fun".


I was sent a private email stating: "What's your problem, it's Summer, people are having fun".

I hardly know where to begin. Elderly people, women with babies, the disabled having to stand in the street waiting for a bus, trash in our water source The Russian River, trash covering someone's property because he has to provide public access, drunk people driving our local roads, continuous loud noise into the night so the nearby residents have no peace. If you feel it's ok to trash a place, interfere with someone's business, drive drunk, and create a dangerous road situation so you have fun, I feel sorry for your neighbors and hope you won't be raising any children...