if we cannot see it does it exist?

[jeffreyiam]

the other day I drove past a road kill and wondered if it had a soul. Did it feel the moments of facing death by something that did not care one way or another? Then again it was surely the animals fault for being in the middle of the road in the path of a cars tires in the first place. Why would it not have just walked to the cross walk and press the crossing button.? A simple act could have saved its life...........but whose act? an animal whose home has been encroached upon by human development automatically loses all rights. but it beckons the greater question of soul. Did that animal have a soul? did it have a spiritual side? If so does it go to heaven and have other life's to live? Was it even capable of feeling or thinking of anything but survival? Why should it's life have any value in compared to our own. Why we have a soul we have a spiritual self.........oh but has this ever been determined by science? Has the spiritual realm ever even be proven to exist? So if scientifically we can finally prove that there is a realm of the soul then would it be possible one may also exist for animals.?

Oh wait why stop there if animals may have a soul then lets think even bigger and greater yet...............what about the concept of the soul of the planet!!!!!!! what would it take to determine if there is a planetary soul a true spirit for the planet? Or is the earth just an elaborate piece of rock that so happened to put in this incredible alignment around a star. What a coincidence that all this happened by chance. Or just maybe by design. if it was by design if we were all created with a core of consciousness then did it stop with us or is it completely interwoven in all living things? Is a rock alive. well scientifically it is just a rock made of of whatever rocks are made up depending upon where is originated from. When i think about this i can only assume the rock is a molecular structure made of of different molecules so assume they are living. not sure if there can be dead molecules. as they say energy cannot be created nor destroyed?. Would that mean that a rock is living but in a different form? oh if its living then could it be part of the greater consciousness of creation?

Ok so many questions which ones do we have any answer to..will our answers be scientific by nature or just feelings or thoughts?

lets assume for conversation sake that it can be proven that all of creation was or is by design. That design has a core intent or program that says all elements are to interact with all other elements on equal bases for without one there can exist the other. Add to this that all elements are within a state of consciousness and that when more of the elements can come together the greater the consciousness. This could possibly mean that our human form is a collaboration of elements that have come together by design. each and every molecule is in conjunction with each other. How would this concept if totally accepted change health care? the way in which we look at nature, our actions around our interactions with nature? the way in which we treat ourselves or each other?

Jeffrey

[Lorrie]

You know I feel like you are inside my brain!!! This is the stuff I think about sometimes when I have time.
I think the answer is no. It does not matter to most people, they just don't have time to worry about it.
Fastinating read though. Thanks...:thumbsup:



the other day I drove past a road kill and wondered if it had a soul. Did it feel the moments of facing death by something that did not care one way or another? Then again it was surely the animals fault for being in the middle of the road in the path of a cars tires in the first place. Why would it not have just walked to the cross walk and press the crossing button.? A simple act could have saved its life...........but whose act? an animal whose home has been encroached upon by human development automatically loses all rights. but it beckons the greater question of soul. Did that animal have a soul? did it have a spiritual side? If so does it go to heaven and have other life's to live? Was it even capable of feeling or thinking of anything but survival? Why should it's life have any value in compared to our own. Why we have a soul we have a spiritual self.........oh but has this ever been determined by science? Has the spiritual realm ever even be proven to exist? So if scientifically we can finally prove that there is a realm of the soul then would it be possible one may also exist for animals.?

Oh wait why stop there if animals may have a soul then lets think even bigger and greater yet...............what about the concept of the soul of the planet!!!!!!! what would it take to determine if there is a planetary soul a true spirit for the planet? Or is the earth just an elaborate piece of rock that so happened to put in this incredible alignment around a star. What a coincidence that all this happened by chance. Or just maybe by design. if it was by design if we were all created with a core of consciousness then did it stop with us or is it completely interwoven in all living things? Is a rock alive. well scientifically it is just a rock made of of whatever rocks are made up depending upon where is originated from. When i think about this i can only assume the rock is a molecular structure made of of different molecules so assume they are living. not sure if there can be dead molecules. as they say energy cannot be created nor destroyed?. Would that mean that a rock is living but in a different form? oh if its living then could it be part of the greater consciousness of creation?

Ok so many questions which ones do we have any answer to..will our answers be scientific by nature or just feelings or thoughts?

lets assume for conversation sake that it can be proven that all of creation was or is by design. That design has a core intent or program that says all elements are to interact with all other elements on equal bases for without one there can exist the other. Add to this that all elements are within a state of consciousness and that when more of the elements can come together the greater the consciousness. This could possibly mean that our human form is a collaboration of elements that have come together by design. each and every molecule is in conjunction with each other. How would this concept if totally accepted change health care? the way in which we look at nature, our actions around our interactions with nature? the way in which we treat ourselves or each other?

Jeffrey

[babaruss]

Sounds like you just described the belief of the Lakota people.
Babaruss


the other day I drove past a road kill and wondered if it had a soul. Did it feel the moments of facing death by something that did not care one way or another? Then again it was surely the animals fault for being in the middle of the road in the path of a cars tires in the first place. Why would it not have just walked to the cross walk and press the crossing button.? A simple act could have saved its life...........but whose act? an animal whose home has been encroached upon by human development automatically loses all rights. but it beckons the greater question of soul. Did that animal have a soul? did it have a spiritual side? If so does it go to heaven and have other life's to live? Was it even capable of feeling or thinking of anything but survival? Why should it's life have any value in compared to our own. Why we have a soul we have a spiritual self.........oh but has this ever been determined by science? Has the spiritual realm ever even be proven to exist? So if scientifically we can finally prove that there is a realm of the soul then would it be possible one may also exist for animals.?

Oh wait why stop there if animals may have a soul then lets think even bigger and greater yet...............what about the concept of the soul of the planet!!!!!!! what would it take to determine if there is a planetary soul a true spirit for the planet? Or is the earth just an elaborate piece of rock that so happened to put in this incredible alignment around a star. What a coincidence that all this happened by chance. Or just maybe by design. if it was by design if we were all created with a core of consciousness then did it stop with us or is it completely interwoven in all living things? Is a rock alive. well scientifically it is just a rock made of of whatever rocks are made up depending upon where is originated from. When i think about this i can only assume the rock is a molecular structure made of of different molecules so assume they are living. not sure if there can be dead molecules. as they say energy cannot be created nor destroyed?. Would that mean that a rock is living but in a different form? oh if its living then could it be part of the greater consciousness of creation?

Ok so many questions which ones do we have any answer to..will our answers be scientific by nature or just feelings or thoughts?

lets assume for conversation sake that it can be proven that all of creation was or is by design. That design has a core intent or program that says all elements are to interact with all other elements on equal bases for without one there can exist the other. Add to this that all elements are within a state of consciousness and that when more of the elements can come together the greater the consciousness. This could possibly mean that our human form is a collaboration of elements that have come together by design. each and every molecule is in conjunction with each other. How would this concept if totally accepted change health care? the way in which we look at nature, our actions around our interactions with nature? the way in which we treat ourselves or each other?

Jeffrey

[Sonomamark]

Or, instead of getting carried away with flights of fantasy, we could go with the preponderance of evidence, and conclude that it is highly unlikely that there is any such thing as a soul, and the Universe wasn't created deliberately at all, but rather unfolds as a physical/mathematical process unrelated to imagined values, purposes, or destinies.

Just a thought...


SM



Oh wait why stop there if animals may have a soul then lets think even bigger and greater yet...............what about the concept of the soul of the planet!!!!!!!

Jeffrey

[babaruss]

Still, if one were to believe such a soul existed (be it on a personal, or planetary level) would it not lead people to develop respect for themselves, other beings, and the planet upon which their existence depends ?
Just a thought
Babaruss


Or, instead of getting carried away with flights of fantasy, we could go with the preponderance of evidence, and conclude that it is highly unlikely that there is any such thing as a soul, and the Universe wasn't created deliberately at all, but rather unfolds as a physical/mathematical process unrelated to imagined values, purposes, or destinies. Just a thought...SM

[MsTerry]

If all we are is a bundle of thoughts or catchers of fleeting thoughts.
Who is doing all the thinking?


Still, if one were to believe such a soul existed (be it on a personal, or planetary level) would it not lead people to develop respect for themselves, other beings, and the planet upon which their existence depends ?
Just a thought
Babaruss

[Sara S]

Why didn't the chicken push that crossing button? Very funny.

Seriously, though, many thought-provoking questions here; I'm a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism, and so asked Lama Zik of Gold Ridge Sangha what she would answer, and here it is:

Buddhism believes that all sentient beings have the ability to achieve enlightenment ("sentient" includes every animal, down to the smallest one-celled microscopic ones, and can be defined as being able to respond to stimuli: move toward what is pleasant and away from what isn't).

To become enlightened means to recognize the essential nature of mind, and this essence is identical in all sentient beings. So, animals can incur karma just as we can, and positive actions may result in one's rebirth in a higher realm, while negative actions, performed under the influence of ignorance, result in one's rebirth in a lower realm, over and over.

So, we should treat every sentient being with the utmost compassion, since that being might well have been our parent, say, in a long-ago previous life, and nurtured us and cared for us. Buddhism teaches that there is no individual soul, but rather "karmic tendencies" (habits) that we accumulate in this life which determines our future birth.

The animal which my car hits in the road? Shared karma: we both have some responsibility for that.

My question about the definition of "sentient being" is this: what about plants? Most of them also respond to stimuli, many in rather dramatic ways, many just with a "simple" reflex like turning toward the sun. So I think we have to develop compassion for them, too.

Sara S.



the other day I drove past a road kill and wondered if it had a soul. Did it feel the moments of facing death by something that did not care one way or another? Then again it was surely the animals fault for being in the middle of the road in the path of a cars tires in the first place. Why would it not have just walked to the cross walk and press the crossing button.? A simple act could have saved its life...........but whose act? an animal whose home has been encroached upon by human development automatically loses all rights. but it beckons the greater question of soul. Did that animal have a soul? did it have a spiritual side? If so does it go to heaven and have other life's to live? Was it even capable of feeling or thinking of anything but survival? Why should it's life have any value in compared to our own. Why we have a soul we have a spiritual self.........oh but has this ever been determined by science? Has the spiritual realm ever even be proven to exist? So if scientifically we can finally prove that there is a realm of the soul then would it be possible one may also exist for animals.?

Oh wait why stop there if animals may have a soul then lets think even bigger and greater yet...............what about the concept of the soul of the planet!!!!!!! what would it take to determine if there is a planetary soul a true spirit for the planet? Or is the earth just an elaborate piece of rock that so happened to put in this incredible alignment around a star. What a coincidence that all this happened by chance. Or just maybe by design. if it was by design if we were all created with a core of consciousness then did it stop with us or is it completely interwoven in all living things? Is a rock alive. well scientifically it is just a rock made of of whatever rocks are made up depending upon where is originated from. When i think about this i can only assume the rock is a molecular structure made of of different molecules so assume they are living. not sure if there can be dead molecules. as they say energy cannot be created nor destroyed?. Would that mean that a rock is living but in a different form? oh if its living then could it be part of the greater consciousness of creation?

Ok so many questions which ones do we have any answer to..will our answers be scientific by nature or just feelings or thoughts?

lets assume for conversation sake that it can be proven that all of creation was or is by design. That design has a core intent or program that says all elements are to interact with all other elements on equal bases for without one there can exist the other. Add to this that all elements are within a state of consciousness and that when more of the elements can come together the greater the consciousness. This could possibly mean that our human form is a collaboration of elements that have come together by design. each and every molecule is in conjunction with each other. How would this concept if totally accepted change health care? the way in which we look at nature, our actions around our interactions with nature? the way in which we treat ourselves or each other?

Jeffrey

[jeffreyiam]

it seems throughout time many traditions have had clues to our existence and paths to interaction to nature and the forces of spirit. Most of the times represented by symbols that were surrounded by stories passed down from one generation to another. But for some reason much has been lost over time and replaced by our created civilization. It appears that the core of these was based upon an infrastructure govern by an source of perceived power. Political - spiritual or other. Rules and laws began to shape the terms of living each one seemingly to be of benefit to the power source and at time protecting the rights of the participants. Of course the question is protection from who or whom. Ourselves or the power?

Farming over time became centralized, natural based or spiritual healing governed or in so many cases deemed demonic, rituals of the planet changed and modified to the benefit of something else. Pathways to god or goddess layered with rituals and conditions that only what could be achieved by what was called the chosen ones. Throughout this molding into what we now call modern civilization what is remaining of the original knowledge? where is our gateway to the spiritual world being held? is it hidden in caves at Mt Shasta or buried deep in the text of the lost scrolls? hmmm well if we and all was created by design and transforms and continues to create and recreate itself by design and most living elements do not have spoken/written language then what is the path to greater understanding. Where can we possibly find, learn and embrace the pathways to communicating with the universal language of what is the core of creation?

and if we think we may have the answer how can you prove it is not just a figment of our imagination.

The planet is being faced with environmental degradation which is proven from the effects of chemicals on human, animal air and water. Chemicals are showing up on all areas of the planet creating hazard conditions. The mental state of people seemingly is having to rely upon anti depressants and other drugs as the only pathway just to exist and function. Are we moving more and more toward an un-natural way of living according to what the original intent of creation was? or are we doing exactly what we are suppose to be doing in order to learn the rules of creation which obviously include greater understanding of cause and effect.
But to what end do we need to experience effect to see that we are the cause?

[jeffreyiam]

in order to address this it seems many are waiting for laws. let's see laws to say don't dump chemicals in water and land that may kill people. or if we are lucky wildlife may be included in the wording and simply read poison water soil etc. yet it is legal to make chemicals that kill plants and people and all life forms in the name of protection. hmmmm interesting standards. there are laws that protect the rights to religious freedoms yet if you are a nudist and that is your spiritual path then don't do it in public or you will be arrested. There are laws to protect animals as long as they behave and stay where they are suppose to........... we can go on and on with these...just add religious laws.....how many protect the rights of nature equal to those of ourselves or because we are deemed to be superior only we can choose what has a right to live or die. Yet if you look at it realistically we cannot live without the presence of nature. WE can only exist with water air and nurishment. A partnership is apparent yet actions and laws do not always acknowledge that. I love the part of land ownership and i own it i will do as i please regardless of the possible presence of nature spirits and habitat. No matter to how our actions may effect the natural processes of nature that insures sustainability. And in the end the quality of our own lives.

OK so we have proven through action that we are unable to self govern and embrace natural laws that protect all on equal terms.

Now what? what would it take for each individual community to find embrace involve embed natural holistic living as per the laws of creation...oh this is assuming they even exist.

but if they did and we get them lets think about how that may change the very core of all we do. All that we design would be done so with the intent of not harming. all materials would be sourced to be natural and reusable, all foods and living structures would be in alignment of harmony. Eduation based upon self discovery and tools for deeper understanding and creation with all things taken into consideration instead of just profitablity and market share.

[jeffreyiam]

Or, instead of getting carried away with flights of fantasy, we could go with the preponderance of evidence, and conclude that it is highly unlikely that there is any such thing as a soul, and the Universe wasn't created deliberately at all, but rather unfolds as a physical/mathematical process unrelated to imagined values, purposes, or destinies.

Just a thought...


SM


i think this is a great assumption and probably true as it seems all things are a physical mathimatical process and its possible that the soul is a part of that just not seen. it goes back to what i see as the most profound question of them all.....just how did life start with. how can nothing create something?

[Sara S]

For 25 or 30 years, my source of the original knowledge has been the I Ching; I always felt that the men who devised this system for comprehending the universe, and for divination, were still in touch with the universe in ways which we civilized people no longer know. But, lucky for all of us, they left instructions, so we CAN find and embrace the pathways to communication with the universal core.

How I know that knowledge gained by use of this method is not a figment of my imagination is by having studied and consulted this source for years, and having the wisdom proven by later events.

Sara S.


it seems throughout time many traditions have had clues to our existence and paths to interaction to nature and the forces of spirit. Most of the times represented by symbols that were surrounded by stories passed down from one generation to another. But for some reason much has been lost over time and replaced by our created civilization. It appears that the core of these was based upon an infrastructure govern by an source of perceived power. Political - spiritual or other. Rules and laws began to shape the terms of living each one seemingly to be of benefit to the power source and at time protecting the rights of the participants. Of course the question is protection from who or whom. Ourselves or the power?

Farming over time became centralized, natural based or spiritual healing governed or in so many cases deemed demonic, rituals of the planet changed and modified to the benefit of something else. Pathways to god or goddess layered with rituals and conditions that only what could be achieved by what was called the chosen ones. Throughout this molding into what we now call modern civilization what is remaining of the original knowledge? where is our gateway to the spiritual world being held? is it hidden in caves at Mt Shasta or buried deep in the text of the lost scrolls? hmmm well if we and all was created by design and transforms and continues to create and recreate itself by design and most living elements do not have spoken/written language then what is the path to greater understanding. Where can we possibly find, learn and embrace the pathways to communicating with the universal language of what is the core of creation?

and if we think we may have the answer how can you prove it is not just a figment of our imagination.

The planet is being faced with environmental degradation which is proven from the effects of chemicals on human, animal air and water. Chemicals are showing up on all areas of the planet creating hazard conditions. The mental state of people seemingly is having to rely upon anti depressants and other drugs as the only pathway just to exist and function. Are we moving more and more toward an un-natural way of living according to what the original intent of creation was? or are we doing exactly what we are suppose to be doing in order to learn the rules of creation which obviously include greater understanding of cause and effect.
But to what end do we need to experience effect to see that we are the cause?

[hales]

But to what end do we need to experience effect to see that we are the cause?

It seems to me that some people need a lot more "input", to get the message.. like that old metaphor of a two-by-four upside the head..
I'm not pointing fingers, I've definitely had some loud wake up alarms, in my life experience..

I really do believe that there are constant messages coming to us, like touches of a feather. If that doesn't get our attention, perhaps a firm tap on the shoulder.. nope?.. well how about a loud yell or a "sign from god" that looks like a billboard? Um, not really paying attention, yet! Okay, now we're talking a cancer diagnosis, a broadside impact at high speed on the freeway or an unexpected divorce, or the death of a loved one..

(That poor squirrel really wasn't paying enough attention! Nor was the driver that accelerated that li'l soul's progression to the next life!)

Getting run over by a vehicle is just one of the infinite number of things that can happen when someone is not paying attention.

I don't know if there is any way to answer the age old question if animals, or people for that matter have a soul or not. I guess it's something that everyone has a slightly different view on. My experience (from dreams, intuition and other inner experiences), and my personal opinion are that soul does exist, animals and people do live after death, and there is a cyclic kind of experiential path that we take, learning as we go. I've had convincing dreams of talking to deceased relatives, for instance.. you don't have to accept that as proof, but it was as real to me as any other conversations I had with them.. And I have had cats that really seemed to be the reincarnations of previous pets.. believe it or don't .. I full expect to meet them again, though they are all passed on, now.

Of course I've read lots of books on reincarnation, dreams, and the life between incarnations, too. ("The Journey of Souls" is a trippy one). I don't expect to convince any materialists, though. (I'm sure there are many well-written books on the non-existence or non-survival of souls!) It's clear that people are each at their own point of awareness; We may be equal in some absolute reconning , but our individual awareness, experience and intelligence is not.

I think that where we habitually put our attention has a big impact on what our experience will be.. to some extent at least, everything in our lives is a result of our consciousness and how we have directed our attention in the past.

What I'm wondering about now, is how to redirect my attention after a time of letting it drift a bit.. trying to find some clarity and motivation, and I hope I can regain some of that. Obviously age brings a certain perspective but also lots of excuses and explanations for letting it all go.. after all, it's almost expected that people will become more sedentary, serious, rigid and conservative as they age, right? As a general rule, I try to go the other way and cultivate some playfulness, flexible thinking and a general sense of good-will. I do think that it helps, though sometimes it's hard to live in a world of materialism and urgent messages from the "dominant paradigm" of consumption, continual growth and expansion, etc., etc..

I suppose that some kind of daily awareness practice is a very good first step to overcoming habitual reactivity and unconscious behavior, though.
Yoga, meditation, tai chi, prayer, or something like that. Even fishing, archery, or playing pool, if a person did it right.. ; )

Scott

[babaruss]

When I stop fighting ideas, concepts, and beliefs held by others, I start seeing things differently.
I do not embrace these ideas, concepts of beliefs, but rather reflect and consider them as best I am able.
Today it doesn't matter if there is a God, if I have a soul, or if there is a purpose to life. What I need do (for me) is to find what it is that I wish to add to or take from this life experience...also ask myself what it is I wish to get rid of in me which goes counter to those ends.
There are enough contradictions between how I live my life, and my desired (wanted) changes to keep me forever self employed.
The hardest lesson for me has been (and still is) to live my life, and leave yours alone.
I don't often hear voices...not since the acid days 40 some years ago...but periodically I hear a quiet voice which says...live your own life...and let others live theirs. This means to me it's time to stop screaming about all those things which upset my judgmental, critical mind, and deal with my own dream/reality.

Reincarnation is something I am definitely insure about.
When my partner was dying, she described where she was going, and what it was she was becoming...I listened, and marveled at how she was transitioning comfortably out of this life. It mattered little to me if she was delusional, or actually witnessing the creation of a new reality....what mattered was that this was her process, and I was blessed to be a witness to a death sans fear, guilt, shame, blame, regret, etc.

Don't ask how I ended up talking about this...my drifting old brain just took over !!
I appreciate your way of thinking and expressing yourself Scott.
Babaruss



But to what end do we need to experience effect to see that we are the cause?

It seems to me that some people need a lot more "input", to get the message.. like that old metaphor of a two-by-four upside the head..
I'm not pointing fingers, I've definitely had some loud wake up alarms, in my life experience..

I really do believe that there are constant messages coming to us, like touches of a feather. If that doesn't get our attention, perhaps a firm tap on the shoulder.. nope?.. well how about a loud yell or a "sign from god" that looks like a billboard? Um, not really paying attention, yet! Okay, now we're talking a cancer diagnosis, a broadside impact at high speed on the freeway or an unexpected divorce, or the death of a loved one..

(That poor squirrel really wasn't paying enough attention! Nor was the driver that accelerated that li'l soul's progression to the next life!)

Getting run over by a vehicle is just one of the infinite number of things that can happen when someone is not paying attention.

I don't know if there is any way to answer the age old question if animals, or people for that matter have a soul or not. I guess it's something that everyone has a slightly different view on. My experience (from dreams, intuition and other inner experiences), and my personal opinion are that soul does exist, animals and people do live after death, and there is a cyclic kind of experiential path that we take, learning as we go. I've had convincing dreams of talking to deceased relatives, for instance.. you don't have to accept that as proof, but it was as real to me as any other conversations I had with them.. And I have had cats that really seemed to be the reincarnations of previous pets.. believe it or don't .. I full expect to meet them again, though they are all passed on, now.

Of course I've read lots of books on reincarnation, dreams, and the life between incarnations, too. ("The Journey of Souls" is a trippy one). I don't expect to convince any materialists, though. (I'm sure there are many well-written books on the non-existence or non-survival of souls!) It's clear that people are each at their own point of awareness; We may be equal in some absolute reconning , but our individual awareness, experience and intelligence is not.

I think that where we habitually put our attention has a big impact on what our experience will be.. to some extent at least, everything in our lives is a result of our consciousness and how we have directed our attention in the past.

What I'm wondering about now, is how to redirect my attention after a time of letting it drift a bit.. trying to find some clarity and motivation, and I hope I can regain some of that. Obviously age brings a certain perspective but also lots of excuses and explanations for letting it all go.. after all, it's almost expected that people will become more sedentary, serious, rigid and conservative as they age, right? As a general rule, I try to go the other way and cultivate some playfulness, flexible thinking and a general sense of good-will. I do think that it helps, though sometimes it's hard to live in a world of materialism and urgent messages from the "dominant paradigm" of consumption, continual growth and expansion, etc., etc..

I suppose that some kind of daily awareness practice is a very good first step to overcoming habitual reactivity and unconscious behavior, though.
Yoga, meditation, tai chi, prayer, or something like that. Even fishing, archery, or playing pool, if a person did it right.. ; )

Scott

[hales]

I think you're making perfect sense, here.. ; ) I appreciate your perspectives, and ways of communicating, too!

Scott.

[quote=babaruss;86644]When I stop fighting ideas, concepts, and beliefs held by others, I start seeing things differently.
I do not embrace these ideas, concepts of beliefs, but rather reflect and consider them as best I am able.
Today it doesn't matter if there is a God, if I have a soul, or if there is a purpose to life. What I need do (for me) is to find what it is that I wish to add to or take from this life experience...also ask myself what it is I wish to get rid of in me which goes counter to those ends.
There are enough contradictions between how I live my life, and my desired (wanted) changes to keep me forever self employed.
The hardest lesson for me has been (and still is) to live my life, and leave yours alone.
I don't often hear voices...not since the acid days 40 some years ago...but periodically I hear a quiet voice which says...live your own life...and let others live theirs. This means to me it's time to stop screaming about all those things which upset my judgmental, critical mind, and deal with my own dream/reality.

Reincarnation is something I am definitely insure about.
When my partner was dying, she described where she was going, and what it was she was becoming...I listened, and marveled at how she was transitioning comfortably out of this life. It mattered little to me if she was delusional, or actually witnessing the creation of a new reality....what mattered was that this was her process, and I was blessed to be a witness to a death sans fear, guilt, shame, blame, regret, etc.

Don't ask how I ended up talking about this...my drifting old brain just took over !!
I appreciate your way of thinking and expressing yourself Scott.
Babaruss

[MsTerry]

Baba just keep babbling, it's all starting to make sense!
Look back at the days when you thought you had all the answers, now you are starting to get all the questions.
:heart:

When I stop fighting ideas, concepts, and beliefs held by others, I start seeing things differently.
I do not embrace these ideas, concepts of beliefs, but rather reflect and consider them as best I am able.
Today it doesn't matter if there is a God, if I have a soul, or if there is a purpose to life. What I need do (for me) is to find what it is that I wish to add to or take from this life experience...also ask myself what it is I wish to get rid of in me which goes counter to those ends.
There are enough contradictions between how I live my life, and my desired (wanted) changes to keep me forever self employed.
The hardest lesson for me has been (and still is) to live my life, and leave yours alone.
I don't often hear voices...not since the acid days 40 some years ago...but periodically I hear a quiet voice which says...live your own life...and let others live theirs. This means to me it's time to stop screaming about all those things which upset my judgmental, critical mind, and deal with my own dream/reality.

Reincarnation is something I am definitely insure about.
When my partner was dying, she described where she was going, and what it was she was becoming...I listened, and marveled at how she was transitioning comfortably out of this life. It mattered little to me if she was delusional, or actually witnessing the creation of a new reality....what mattered was that this was her process, and I was blessed to be a witness to a death sans fear, guilt, shame, blame, regret, etc.

Don't ask how I ended up talking about this...my drifting old brain just took over !!
I appreciate your way of thinking and expressing yourself Scott.
Babaruss

[mykil]

I was watching one of the science channels the other night and it was another universal black hole discussion. To my amusement it truly intrigued me. Not only are we on the verge of watching Universes form before our eyes with the new technology coming our way in the next few years. But we are truly going to be blessed with finding out where the hell we are going. To most of the scientific community these dayz anyway, we are presuming what goes in a black hole must come out. This is the newest revolution which most have just presumed over the years. But on the other end of the black hole in the center of our universe with all that black matter floating around and acting all cool, it has a reason, it shall be the making of an entire new universe. With this new telescope they are putting up know we will be able to see the making of new universes. Way past the spotting of new galaxy technology only a few years back. But the most profound and outrageous acquisitions might be the scientists to this day are putting money on the table betting the outcome of this event! Do you have a clue what they are betting on? They are betting whether or not these new universes shall have umbilical cords attached… Soul? Yes! Earth pulse? You bet!, bigger and better things surrounding us? You know it!
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If you look at us and imagine us as being a simple cell in a body, this cell going haywire you shall see that if we had such a little cell in our own bode messing up and making us sick we would attack it with our own antibodies and rid it out he other end. WE should all learn to take responsibilities and make sure US as in WE as a pulse on our little world stays as healthy as possible or we might just be discarded and flushed out he other end. Good cell bad cell? What are we now? In my own humble theories on our existence we do have a soul, we are all one large soul and should be considered one. One that has a huge problem in our own true meaning and function in this little out of the way solar system, surrounded by trillions of galaxies and most likely trillions upon trillions of universes waiting to see beyond this. What shall be bigger than a universe? HA!
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If we are this reckless with ourselves and give our planet a cancer, then it spreads to our galaxy and keeps on trucking, we, as in us a whole, might just bring the whole scenario down. WE should all pray for good well, love, and health and forget all the pettiness we have laid before our eyes our true soul and our future. To look to the future and see this planet as a complete and udder failure is truly a sin. There is so much we can do…

[lynn]

Well, that's why 'it's' called 'the sixth sense'...