Is it legal for me to sleep in my car in Sebastopol?

[bodegahead]

Just wondering. I really want to go see Paul Kantner Jefferson Starship David Grisman at the Hop Munk in April . but I really don`t feel comfortable about having to drive home to Bodega Bay after the show. I have a real problem with driving in the dark these days. Was wondering if I could just rest in my car till dawn or......Any input would be appreciated

[nurturetruth]

For now , I am prone to assume that it is not "ok" or legal to sleep/rest in ur car in sebastopol.
And if it were legal, u may still face harassment from the local police.

It would seem that the idea u presented of "parking" in town somewhere after a show at a bar b/c u didn't wish to drive the curvy road back ...would be a good one to take up with city council or with the local churches.
There are some cities that have churches that actually allow use of the parking lot as a safe haven for those needing to rest their heads till dawn or for those like u, who do not feel comfortable driving at night on a curvy road. The cities and the churches work together to promote "don't drink and drive" notion.
Wonder if there are any local churches who might be open to this idea and if the city of Sebastopol would be willing to allow a safe haven of sorts to be made available?

Offhand, I would personally try 1 of 3 places.

1) pay a fee for a campground temporarily...there is one off of hwy 12
2) call a friend in town and ask to crash for the night or ask them if they knew anywhere
3) go to hardcore cafe parking lot off of 116 and bloomfield....
it would seem as if hardcore cafe would not have a problem with this at all, plus they probably open early..around the same time u might feel better about driving.
I would call ahead of time to hardcore coffee and cafe though, and ask permission along with their thoughts regarding police harassment.
The other thought might be the "park and ride" in Cotati. A bit out of the way, but could work maybe.

And remember to park somewhere else other than the HopMonk when going to see a show there! (or else be very present and aware of ur surroundings) :thumbsup:

Good luck!

[MsTerry]

3) go to hardcore cafe parking lot off of 116 and bloomfield....
it would seem as if hardcore cafe would not have a problem with this at all, plus they probably open early..around the same time u might feel better about driving.
I would call ahead of time to hardcore coffee and cafe though, and ask permission along with their thoughts regarding police harassment.
The other thought might be the "park and ride" in Cotati. A bit out of the way, but could work maybe.

See, if I were to post a suggestion like this, it would be censored. (Barry erased one post of mine where you requested someone to come to your house and I asked if you sleep in your truck LOL)
Now that Barry is owned by Google, he has to show that he can censor too.
Anyways, you should ask Mollie first before you suggest this publicly.

[shellebelle]

My understanding is that it is legal to sleep in your car on the streets of Sebastopol. But . . . with the weird stuff happening locally like break ins and the such I think I wold check out a local spot. I know often if you ask Guyacki (sorry can't spell it) they will share their parking lot.

[Veeja]

Just wondering. I really want to go see Paul Kantner Jefferson Starship David Grisman at the Hop Munk in April . but I really don`t feel comfortable about having to drive home to Bodega Bay after the show. I have a real problem with driving in the dark these days. Was wondering if I could just rest in my car till dawn or......Any input would be appreciated

I don't know if it is legal to sleep in your car. I do know if the police harass you and breathalyze you,,and you've been drinking you can get a dui even if the car is shut off and keys are not in the ignition.

[Barry]

I don't know if it is legal to sleep in your car. I do know if the police harass you and breathalyze you,,and you've been drinking you can get a dui even if the car is shut off and keys are not in the ignition.

You can get arrested for DUI as long as you are in "physical control" which is defined by being in the driver's seat and having possession of the keys.

So just get in the passenger seat (and to be doubly sure, put the keys in the trunk) and you have nothing to worry about.

See: Ohio DUI Law and Charges: DUIAttorney.com (https://www.duiattorney.com/ohio/ohio-dui-law-explained)

["Mad" Miles]

I did a quick check of Sebastopol's Municipal Code and could find nothing specific.

Here's what the Sonoma County Code says (Note "(e) Exceptions", that seems to be the relevant language that might allow you to do what you say you want to do):

**********************************************************
Sec. 19-15. Camping and vehicle habitation, prohibited on public streets, etc.


(a) Definitions. For the purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) “Camper” means a structure designed to be mounted upon a vehicle (as defined by Section 670 of the California Vehicle Code) and which provides facilities for human habitation or camping purposes;

(2) “Camping” means sleeping, cooking, setting up housekeeping, pitching a tent or other temporary shelter, and/or using camp paraphernalia; includes the verb, to “camp”;

(3) “House car” means a vehicle (as defined by Section 670 of the California Vehicle Code) originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached;

(4) “Human habitation” means spending three (3) or more consecutive hours in a single or nearby location for the purpose of cooking, eating, cleaning, resting, recreating and/or sleeping.

(b) Use of Vehicles for Human Habitation Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to use a vehicle, camper, house car, boat, or trailer for human habitation on or in any public street, alley way or parking area, or any privately owned off-street parking area which is held open for the common public use of retail customers.

(c) Camping on Public Property Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to camp in any public park, on any public street or on any other public property, except in a designated public campground or by authority of a written permit issued by the county.

(d) Camping on Private Property Prohibited Absent Owner Permission. It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to camp on any private property without first obtaining the written permission of the owner or other person(s) in lawful possession of the property.

(e) Exceptions. Notwithstanding the prohibition against human habitation in vehicles and camping on public or private property, it is not the intent of this section to prohibit persons, when necessary for their safety or the safety of others, to pull off the public road and sleep, whether inside or outside their vehicles.

(f) Penalty for Violation. Any person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor. Except where other penalties are specified, each offense may be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100.00) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500.00), or by the imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed sixty (60) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment. (Ord. No. 5508 § 1, 2004.)

***********************************************************
Keep in mind that if the cops want to arrest you, they will. If they want to cite you, they will. They'll let you hash it out in court, if you want to disagree with their decision.

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[Geni Houston]

It is illegal to sleep in your car within the city limits of Sebastopol. I called the police department and asked.

[Toxic Reverend]

Just wondering. I really want to go see Paul Kantner Jefferson Starship David Grisman at the Hop Munk in April . but I really don`t feel comfortable about having to drive home to Bodega Bay after the show. I have a real problem with driving in the dark these days. Was wondering if I could just rest in my car till dawn or......Any input would be appreciated

I had lived in a RV or a van from 1999 to 2005, in
Sonoma County. So here are a few tips:

They "could" give you a ticket, but would probably let you
slide "if" you can show a current residence documentation
and explain yourself as "too tired to drive".

If you have a letter from a private property owner giving
you permission to "camp", they can not give you a ticket,
in Sonoma County. The unincorporated areas are subject
to a max $500 fine and or 60 days in jail. $100 min fine.

There are campgrounds in that area.

How ever, the police use what is called an "Attitude Test".
They can come at you aggressively, just to see how you
respond. It is one "test" that you do not want to fail. In
some instances, I strongly suspect that it also used as an
"excuse" to their supervisors, if and when a complaint is
made.



Some communities in California are loosing law suits
with regard to their ordinances that criminalize homelessness.

In reference:

Google News Alert for: homeless criminalized
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="600"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-bottom: 1em;"> ACLU Sues Santa Barbara over Pair of ‘Homeless’ Ordinances (https://www.noozhawk.com/local_news/article/030709_aclu_sues_santa_barbara/)
Noozhawk - Santa Barbara-Goleta,CA,USA
“To be homeless and mentally ill in Santa Barbara, which bills itself on
its Web site as America’s Riviera, is to be a criminal,” Mark Rosenbaum, ...
</td></tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom: 1em;"> ACLU Sues City (https://www.independent.com/news/2009/mar/07/aclu-sues-city-behalf-homeless/)
The Santa Barbara Independent - Santa Barbara,CA,USA
The group said the laws criminalize impoverished, disabled residents who
have no ... Lynn Jahnke, a physician who treats the homeless, said with only 30 ...</td></tr></tbody></table>
Nationally, homelessness was criminalized. And the police and
their tickets can be the least of your problems:

In reference:>

The National Coalition for the Homeless (https://www.nationalhomeless.org/)
Reports from: the NCH
Hate Crimes and Violence Against People Experiencing Homelessness (https://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/facts/hatecrimes.html)
and
The Criminalization of Homelessness in U.S. Cities, (https://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/facts/criminalization.html)
This report lists the meanest cities in America with
regard to how they treat the homeless. The report
includes the methods used and (un-constitutional)laws
they passed, to "save money". Or a ...... laws they
"enacted" to criminalize the homeless.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, this next video should
put it into perspective:

Video: Posted at YouTube
How San Francisco really deals with the homeless
(A city truck with a water cannon blasts a homeless man)
YouTube - How San Francisco deals with the homeless (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkfLFPxIVQU)



<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/dkfLFPxIVQU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>



Blessings,

The Toxic Reverend
https://www.myspace.com/<wbr>toxicreverend (https://www.myspace.com/toxicreverend)
aka
Justice Is Homeless
https://www.myspace.com/<wbr>justiceishomeless (https://www.myspace.com/justiceishomeless)

https://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=14545000&albumID=1187579&imageID=22680857

[Hot Compost]

i slept in my truck for about 5 weeks once. didn't get hassled once. in SF, not Sebastopol.

i think the trick is to be discrete. somewhere where it's quiet and the presence of your car does not raise eye brows.

[babaruss]

I know a couple people who were homeless and worked at Longs Drugs in Sebastopol.
They slept in their car in the parking lot and were never hassled.
Since Longs is open all night no one seems to pay attention to a car parked in an open area at that location. (as opposed to the darkest corner of the lot).
Plus the 'exception' to the no camping in car law...sleeping for reasons of driver safety should take care of that situation if you were approached by a policeman.
Dope free booze free vehicle (or at least in the trunk) would clearly demonstrate your 'story'.
Babaruss


i slept in my truck for about 5 weeks once. didn't get hassled once. in SF, not Sebastopol.

i think the trick is to be discrete. somewhere where it's quiet and the presence of your car does not raise eye brows.

[Infinite Rose]

I have been told by police (not in Sebastopol) that you can get away with sleeping in a hotel/motel parking lot and I have never had any trouble there. Discretion is key.


Just wondering. I really want to go see Paul Kantner Jefferson Starship David Grisman at the Hop Munk in April . but I really don`t feel comfortable about having to drive home to Bodega Bay after the show. I have a real problem with driving in the dark these days. Was wondering if I could just rest in my car till dawn or......Any input would be appreciated

[MsTerry]

I forgot to ask you this, but how do you get your keys back after you lock them in the trunk? :hmmm:


You can get arrested for DUI as long as you are in "physical control" which is defined by being in the driver's seat and having possession of the keys.

So just get in the passenger seat (and to be doubly sure, put the keys in the trunk) and you have nothing to worry about.

See: Ohio DUI Law and Charges: DUIAttorney.com (https://www.duiattorney.com/ohio/ohio-dui-law-explained)

[babaruss]

Ms. Terry...your are just plain brazen !!
I purposefully left that question unquestioned.
Oh well ,someone had to ask that question didn't they ?
Might as well have been you !!!
Babaruss


I forgot to ask you this, but how do you get your keys back after you lock them in the trunk? :hmmm:

[MsTerry]

It did take me three weeks to muster up the courage to ask. I was hoping someone else would ask that about that little detail.


Ms. Terry...your are just plain brazen !!
I purposefully left that question unquestioned.
Oh well ,someone had to ask that question didn't they ?
Might as well have been you !!!
Babaruss

[Toxic Reverend]

Homeless Criminalization Ruled "unconstitutional":

*Appeals court panel ends LA ban on homeless living in vehicles*
Los Angeles Times- by maura dolan-
June 19, 2014

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-homeless-vehicles-20140620-story.html

[Ronaldo]

Thanks Tom, I'm glad that you have brought attention to this ruling. Now it remains to be seen if Sebastopol, Guerneville, Santa Rosa, and other CA cities will act " with the concept of an evenhanded administration of the law to the poor and to the rich that is fundamental to a democratic society."

They haven't so far, even though some individuals "slip by" it is still unlawful to sleep in your car in Sonoma County. This won't change until there is a test case, maybe not even then.


Homeless Criminalization Ruled "unconstitutional":

*Appeals court panel ends LA ban on homeless living in vehicles*
Los Angeles Times- by maura dolan-
June 19, 2014

https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-homeless-vehicles-20140620-story.html

[jhelbraunabramson]

The County of Sonoma lifted the ban on sleeping in one's car in January, see the last few paragraphs here: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20140129/community/140139988#page=0. This means that in the unincorporated County, it is legal to sleep in your car.

The ban in the City of Santa Rosa was lifted in September 2013: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20130917/articles/130919553.


Thanks Tom, I'm glad that you have brought attention to this ruling. Now it remains to be seen if Sebastopol, Guerneville, Santa Rosa, and other CA cities will act " with the concept of an evenhanded administration of the law to the poor and to the rich that is fundamental to a democratic society."

They haven't so far, even though some individuals "slip by" it is still unlawful to sleep in your car in Sonoma County. This won't change until there is a test case, maybe not even then.