How Progressive Are You?

[Tars]

An "interactive quiz" with 40 questions, from the Center For American Progress (https://www.americanprogress.org/) claims to help define where your opinions place you on the scale of conservative to Progressive. My score was 324, which earned me a "very progressive" rating. Actually, my rating more reflected my inability to look at some of the issues as phrased in the quiz, in a black or white manner. Possibly the quiz more effectively asks, "how dogmatic are you on current political issues?" One might say that the closer one scores to either end of the scale, the more they see things as completely black or white issues.


TAKE THE QUIZ
(https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/03/progressive_quiz.html)

[Barry]

I got a 353, or "Extremely Progressive". Seems appropriate being that I run this website for the progressive community. However there are still times, within certain settings, that I feel a bit conservative.


An "interactive quiz" with 40 questions, from the Center For American Progress (https://www.americanprogress.org/) claims to help define where your opinions place you on the scale of conservative to Progressive. My score was 324, which earned me a "very progressive" rating. Actually, my rating more reflected my inability to look at some of the issues as phrased in the quiz, in a black or white manner. Possibly the quiz more effectively asks, "how dogmatic are you on current political issues?" One might say that the closer one scores to either end of the scale, the more they see things as completely black or white issues.


TAKE THE QUIZ
(https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/03/progressive_quiz.html)

[Zeno Swijtink]

My score was 357, and I am shocked! I think about myself as a middle-of-the-road kind of guy. I think they asked the wrong questions.

[MsTerry]

I got 370 and a warrant for my arrest!

[Hot Compost]

the question is not, how progressive are you in your thoughts, the question is, how progressive are you in your actions ?

i have experienced some self-declared members of the 'progressive' community who treat other people - in the same community - dishonestly, & not by accident.

who is better for the community, an honest "conservative" or a dishonest "progressive" ?

[Lorrie]

CAN YOU BELIEVE IT????
I actually got a 299. I am progressive. (thats period)

[Mike Van Horn]

I presumed that on a "progressive" quiz, I would come out conservative. But I got 210, almost the median score.

To me, this shows the difficulty of labels, esp. for people who are away from the extremes. I would rate conservative on economic/fiscal issues, libertarian on political issues, and somewhat liberal on social issues. I suspect there are a lot of people in the U.S. with this kind of mix.

And it's hard to average this mix out on a two-dimensional spectrum.

mvh

[toddwquigley]

It's only "progressive" if it's going in the direction that YOU consider it should go, and everyone has a different view on what progress is. Therefore the label "progressive" is a misnomer, because it can only be applied to one's self as nobody else agrees with you 100% on every issue, 100% of the time.

For example: About 2/3 of the State considers prop. 8 to be progressive because it is progress towards their goal of finally unalterably defining marriage as strictly a heterosexual relationship, while the other 1/3 of the State's population does not consider prop. 8 to be progressive, because it goes against THEIR view of what progress is, which is finally unalterably defining marriage as between any two people regardless of their gender. Who is right, what is progressive? It really depends on whether it's heading in exactly the direction YOU believe it should, because any deviation no matter how small is actually progress away from your goal.

A more complex example: I like red, and you like red, and it appears that life is going towards red, and that must be progress right? But wait a second, because actually there is no such thing as true red, that wavelength doesn't exist: All shades of red lean towards either orange (left side of spectrum) or purple (right side of spectrum), and this particular red is more orange than purple by just the tiniest amount. Since you think red should lean more towards orange than purple, and that's what we have, it's obviously progress to you. However since I believe that red should lean more towards purple than orange, quite obviously this is not progress for me since it is headed 180 degrees from my goal of a nice burgundy color. Progressive my ass, it may as well be yellow for all it matters, because it definitely doesn't have any purple in it.

So what is progressive thinking, IE: What is progressive? Is it bigger government, or smaller government? Is it making laws that deny certain things to people so that they don't hurt themselves, or is it letting people have the freedom to do something that they want to do even if it might hurt them? Is it financial subsidence programs for the poor paid for by higher taxes, or is it lowering taxes and making the poor learn the hard way to support themselves so that they will never need welfare again? Is it progressive to believe that any two people should be able to marry because that is less limiting even though it will result diminished "family values", or is it only allowing men to marry women because it more promotes "family values" regardless if it makes some people upset not to be married to their loved ones? Tell me, is it progressive to force women to have a child that is not wanted and will therefore not have a happy life, because we are saving a human life, or is it progressive to allow women to murder their children because the child would not be wanted and would have an unhappy life?

Obviously one can go back and forth with equally valid arguments (in your own mind) for and against any opinion to prove that it is both "progressive" and not "progressive". We can also do the same thing with the phrase: "Conscious community". Certainly most people in Orange County would not consider Sebastopol to be a progressive and conscious community because to them, gay marriage would seems to be not progressive, but rather regressive to Caligula and the last days of the Roman Empire, and they consider abortion to be completely unconciable.

Since progress is therefore just a matter of opinion, maybe WACCO should get more appropriate slogans.

[Barry]

It's only "progressive" if it's going in the direction that YOU consider it should go, and everyone has a different view on what progress is. Therefore the label "progressive" is a misnomer, because it can only be applied to one's self as nobody else agrees with you 100% on every issue, 100% of the time.

For example: About 2/3 of the State considers prop. 8 to be progressive because it is progress towards their goal of finally unalterably defining marriage as strictly a heterosexual relationship, while the other 1/3 of the State's population does not consider prop. 8 to be progressive, because it goes against THEIR view of what progress is, which is finally unalterably defining marriage as between any two people regardless of their gender. Who is right, what is progressive?...


I think there is a general understanding of "progressive" and, for instance, "conservative", even if they can be construed in other terms. I doubt the "conservatives" would call themselves "progressive", even if they think they are headed in "right" direction. And us "progressives" wouldn't call ourselves "conservatives" even if we are the ones that are trying to "conserve" the planet.

The "progress" in "progressive" is not generally understood as progress towards individually defined goals and values.

There is a broad consensus, even if its imprecise, of right vs left, conservative vs progressive/liberal. I think one of the fundamental distinctions is the ongoing struggle to balance the interests of the individual with the interests of the community.

And it's quite possible, though often challenging, to operate outside of these filters.

[Mike Van Horn]

Barry, if there's a "general understanding" or a defined doctrine, then I think we should use capital "P" Progressive, as well as Conservative, Liberal, etc.

I wonder if there IS a general understanding among contributors to this site on what "Progressive" means--and doesn't mean. Maybe a poll is in order.

I never think of myself as a Progressive, and truly I couldn't tell you the difference between Progressive and Liberal. And it's risky calling onesself a "Conservative" -- not just because it's SO out of fashion these days -- but also because it means at least two completely different things.

1. There are social conservatives. In my view, these are people who try to cast their personal religious beliefs as universal moral imperatives. Abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage, evolution, etc.

2. There are economic conservatives. These people, followers of Adam Smith, see the power and effectiveness of free markets, and are wary of large dominating institutions -- corporations, government, labor unions, etc.

3. Then there are Libertarians, who often get lumped in with Conservatives. These folks are wary of too much political or economic power being concentrated in large institutions or other elites. They also believe in personal responsibility.

On 2 and 3, I would rate close to 100%; on 1 close to 0%. (I've ignored my attitudes towards geo-political issues, where I am a "hard-headed sumbeech.")

So somehow out of this, the Progressiveness quiz rated me as Progressive--being .5 point above the Mean. Go figure.

A couple of other things:

-- Our government is dominated by two parties, Democrats and Republicans, that both go for huge government, and massive power over people's lives. They only differ over the priorities. They both fail to honor their Liberal or Conservative principles.

-- "Progress" is a modern, Western concept. In many traditional cultures, even today, the notion of progress is missing, is scoffed at, or is heresy. It seems to me that "Progressivism" is promulgated by privileged, modern elites. And as a previous post pointed out, both Liberals and Conservatives aim for "progress."

Hey, I'm not knocking it; I'm part of the privileged elite. (Let's face it: anybody fortunate enough to live in Marin or Sonoma County is very privileged. And we see ourselves as part of an elite.)

So enough rambling. I should be working. But this is a hell of a lot more fun!

mvh

[toddwquigley]

I think there is a general understanding of "progressive" and, for instance, "conservative", even if they can be construed in other terms. I doubt the "conservatives" would call themselves "progressive", even if they think they are headed in "right" direction. And us "progressives" wouldn't call ourselves "conservatives" even if we are the ones that are trying to "conserve" the planet.

The "progress" in "progressive" is not generally understood as progress towards individually defined goals and values.

There is a broad consensus, even if its imprecise, of right vs left, conservative vs progressive/liberal. I think one of the fundamental distinctions is the ongoing struggle to balance the interests of the individual with the interests of the community.

And it's quite possible, though often challenging, to operate outside of these filters.



I think you just proved my point, which is that the liberals have absconded with the term progressive to quite obviously paint themselves as being the forward thinking people, and the Republicans as being regressive and backwards: Who labeled you (liberals) as progressive? It certainly wasn't the conservatives and I guarantee it wasn't us Libertarians, because neither the Conservatives nor the Libertarians consider liberals to be progressive, (or for that matter even liberal, considering how closed minded most "liberals" are). Only Liberals call themselves progressives, because they are the only ones that believe liberals are progressive.

The opposite of progressive (positive) is regressive (bad), in other words, it's simply a trick to make people subconciously think that it the liberals who are good, and obviously since the Conservatives are the opposite of Liberals, they must be bad. Us Libertarians know with logical certainity that both parties are equally to blame for the mess we are in right now, and as such, neither of them are very progressive.

I'll bet that if the Republicans started calling themselves "Positives", all the Democrats would be up in arms since obviously they are the "negetives". Maybe us libertarians should call ourselves "intelligent logicals" because it is a self evident truth that Liberals and Conservatives are the ones that have equally made the mess we are living in, and therefore cannot be very intelligent or logical. (By the way, that statement is an example of logic, and since you are a liberal, I figured I had better explain it to you).

Another, by-the-way: The term "Conservative" was not coined by the Republicans, but by the Democrats who used the term in a derogatory manner to describe Republicans who were overly conservative in their thinking.

Personally I have never thought, nor seen proof, that any one political group has the monopoly on wanting to conserve the planet, to say that it's the Democrats who are trying to conserve the planet as if they are the only ones who care, is no more true than saying that only the Republicans are concerned with National security. . Common sense tells you that NOBODY wants to damage our planet, because it's the only home we have. We are all trying to conserve the planet, it's simply an arguement over what the priorities are, and how to best accomplish it.

I know hard core Republicans that are just as worried as any Democrat about conserving our planet, they just have differing opinions on what is really important and how to go about it, and yes, they base their opinions on scientific facts. If you want to discuss that subject further, we can do it in another thread, and you might be surprised by how logical some of their stances are, and how some deeply held democrat beliefs don't stand the test of logic when put under the microscope and considered within the context of the big picture. There are plenty of Republican members of the Sierra Club, and there are just as many Democrats as Republicans on the boards of Monsanto,3M, Dow and Anaconda.

My point was and is that the term "progressive" is a misnomer. It is limiting, insulting to other people, and counter productive to call any one group of people "progressives". Absconding with the term progressive is insulting to non-Democrats because it makes a strong implication that unless you are a Democrat you are not a person interested in or capable of progress. It basically says: "We are the only ones who are right, we are the only ones who care and we are the only ones who are moving forward", and that's incredibly arrogant and simply not true. It is actually much easier to make the logical case that Democrats are as equally un-progressive as Republicans based upon the fact that it is equally the Democrats and Republicans that have been running this country into the dirt and have therefore brought it to it's current state of chaos. Furthermore since it has been us Libertarians and the other minor political parties have been in opposition to these two equally destructive parties, that we are actually the progressive ones.

Better yet though, let's stop using these petty labels and stop focusing on our differences and instead focus on the things we have in common so that we are all part of the solution. Then everyone can honestly call themselves progressives.

[Yubajeff]

Barry, if there's a "general understanding" or a defined doctrine, then I think we should use capital "P" Progressive, as well as Conservative, Liberal, etc.
where I am a "hard-headed sumbeech.")


Hey, I'm not knocking it; I'm part of the privileged elite. (Let's face it: anybody fortunate enough to live in Marin or Sonoma County is very privileged. And we see ourselves as part of an elite.)

Give me a break, Dude. After a very nice, subtly
thought out correction of Barry's not so subtle
take on this, you blow it completely by your editorial
"We" comment. I certainly do not consider myself
"elite" because I live in Sonoma now. Grateful, yes,
but certainly NOT elite! I DID consider myself elite
when I lived in Sacramento County, then I moved here
and discovered what "elite" really is. Most of the people I
am friends with would not consider themselves elite.
Do you know any working class people? Do they consider
themselves elite? They are just people, struggling to get
by in an economy where few of us take anything for
granted anymore. It is difficult to feel elite when you
can't decide if you can afford a bottle of local wine.