DNA Found to have "Impossible" Telepathic Properties

[JuliaB]

Hmmm, I wonder what this could mean and if it is a stepping stone in the direction of finding common ground with those with a more spiritually interpreted view on the world.
Julia



DNA FOUND TO HAVE "IMPOSSIBLE" TELEPATHIC PROPERTIES
Daily Galaxy
February 3, 2009

DNA Found to Have "Impossible" Telepathic Properties (https://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/02/dna-found-to-ha.html)

Dna47_3_2 DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself
together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn't
be able to. Explanation: None, at least not yet.

Scientists are reporting evidence that contrary to our current beliefs about
what is possible, intact double-stranded DNA has the ³amazing² ability to
recognize similarities in other DNA strands from a distance. Somehow they
are able to identify one another, and the tiny bits of genetic material tend
to congregate with similar DNA. The recognition of similar sequences in
DNA¹s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible.

Even so, the research published in ACS¹ Journal of Physical Chemistry B,
shows very clearly that homology recognition between sequences of several hundred nucleotides occurs without physical contact or presence of proteins. Double helixes of DNA can recognize matching molecules from a distance and then gather together, all seemingly without help from any other molecules or chemical signals.

In the study, scientists observed the behavior of fluorescently tagged DNA
strands placed in water that contained no proteins or other material that
could interfere with the experiment. Strands with identical nucleotide
sequences were about twice as likely to gather together as DNA strands with different sequences. No one knows how individual DNA strands could possibly be communicating in this way, yet somehow they do. The ³telepathic² effect is a source of wonder and amazement for scientists.

³Amazingly, the forces responsible for the sequence recognition can reach
across more than one nanometer of water separating the surfaces of the
nearest neighbor DNA,² said the authors Geoff S. Baldwin, Sergey Leikin,
John M. Seddon, and Alexei A. Kornyshev and colleagues.

This recognition effect may help increase the accuracy and efficiency of the
homologous recombination of genes, which is a process responsible for DNA repair, evolution, and genetic diversity. The new findings may also shed light on ways to avoid recombination errors, which are factors in cancer, aging, and other health issues.

[Zeno Swijtink]

Hmmm, I wonder what this could mean and if it is a stepping stone in the direction of finding common ground with those with a more spiritually interpreted view on the world.
Julia


If you go back to the original research that this article is based on,

DNA Double Helices Recognize Mutual Sequence Homology in a Protein Free Environment
Geoff S. Baldwin, et al. J. Phys. Chem. B, 2008, 112 (4), pp 1060–1064

You learn that the scientists actually propose a mechanism for this "recognition."


We hypothesize that the origin of this recognition may be as follows. In-register alignment of phosphate strands with grooves on opposing DNA minimizes unfavorable electrostatic interactions between the negatively charged phosphates and maximizes favorable interactions of phosphates with bound counterions. DNAs with identical sequences will have the same structure and will stay in register over any juxtaposition length. Nonhomologous DNAs will have uncorrelated sequence-dependent variations in the local pitch that will disrupt the register over large juxtaposition length. The register may be restored at the expense of torsional deformation, but the deformation cost will still make juxtaposition of nonhomologous DNAs unfavorable.14 The sequence recognition energy, calculated from the corresponding theory is consistent with the observed segregation within the existing uncertainties in the theoretical and experimental parameters (Supplemental Theory). This energy is 1 kT under the conditions utilized for the present study, but it is predicted to be significantly amplified, for example, at closer separations, at lower ionic strength, and in the presence of DNA condensing counterions.

No talk about "telepathic properties," but a hypothesis about a mechanism.

Seems this article from Daily Galaxy is doing what you have argued against as when lay people take a ill-understood fragment of, say, quantum theory, and build a spiritual palace on top of it.

[mykil]

I am not sure I would conceder this to be telepathy? I myself am sure, or am really intuitive of the fact that everything is going to boil down to our DNA. All that is paranormal will soon enough not be paranormal any further, just scientific fact! Yet an attraction or magnetic pull with similar properties, in kinda like mercury attraction is better suited perspective. I am amazed; this goes without saying, but still along wayz from telepathy! AS soon as someone can prove that my thoughts are linking up with my DNA and transmitting then we will have some real fun! HA!

[JuliaB]

Thanks for digging a little deeper on this, Zeno. I didn't have time myself when I posted it, but simply thought it was a provocative topic. Now that you have upped the ante ;), I will have to dig deeper myself...
more later...
Julia

DNA Double Helices Recognize Mutual Sequence Homology in a Protein Free Environment
Geoff S. Baldwin, et al. J. Phys. Chem. B, 2008, 112 (4), pp 1060–1064

You learn that the scientists actually propose a mechanism for this "recognition."



No talk about "telepathic properties," but a hypothesis about a mechanism.

Seems this article from Daily Galaxy is doing what you have argued against as when lay people take a ill-understood fragment of, say, quantum theory, and build a spiritual palace on top of it.[/quote]

[Sonomamark]

Despite the sensational language of this article, if you go look at the actual abstract of the study, it's clear that this isn't likely to be about some imaginary "consciousness" on the part of the molecule. The mechanism hasn't been discovered yet, but what this boils down to is the equivalent of Tab A having a propensity for finding Slot B. The most likely explanation for such a phenomenon is not awareness--it's math. "Awareness" on the part of a molecule that can't possibly contain enough processing capacity to be aware is a vanishingly unlikely explanation.

Nothing to get superstitious about.



SM


Hmmm, I wonder what this could mean and if it is a stepping stone in the direction of finding common ground with those with a more spiritually interpreted view on the world.
Julia



DNA FOUND TO HAVE "IMPOSSIBLE" TELEPATHIC PROPERTIES
Daily Galaxy
February 3, 2009

DNA Found to Have "Impossible" Telepathic Properties (https://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/02/dna-found-to-ha.html)

Dna47_3_2 DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself
together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn't
be able to. Explanation: None, at least not yet.

Scientists are reporting evidence that contrary to our current beliefs about
what is possible, intact double-stranded DNA has the ³amazing² ability to
recognize similarities in other DNA strands from a distance. Somehow they
are able to identify one another, and the tiny bits of genetic material tend
to congregate with similar DNA. The recognition of similar sequences in
DNA¹s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible.

Even so, the research published in ACS¹ Journal of Physical Chemistry B,
shows very clearly that homology recognition between sequences of several hundred nucleotides occurs without physical contact or presence of proteins. Double helixes of DNA can recognize matching molecules from a distance and then gather together, all seemingly without help from any other molecules or chemical signals.

In the study, scientists observed the behavior of fluorescently tagged DNA
strands placed in water that contained no proteins or other material that
could interfere with the experiment. Strands with identical nucleotide
sequences were about twice as likely to gather together as DNA strands with different sequences. No one knows how individual DNA strands could possibly be communicating in this way, yet somehow they do. The ³telepathic² effect is a source of wonder and amazement for scientists.

³Amazingly, the forces responsible for the sequence recognition can reach
across more than one nanometer of water separating the surfaces of the
nearest neighbor DNA,² said the authors Geoff S. Baldwin, Sergey Leikin,
John M. Seddon, and Alexei A. Kornyshev and colleagues.

This recognition effect may help increase the accuracy and efficiency of the
homologous recombination of genes, which is a process responsible for DNA repair, evolution, and genetic diversity. The new findings may also shed light on ways to avoid recombination errors, which are factors in cancer, aging, and other health issues.

[Zeno Swijtink]

Thanks for digging a little deeper on this, Zeno. I didn't have time myself when I posted it, but simply thought it was a provocative topic. Now that you have upped the ante ;), I will have to dig deeper myself...
more later...
Julia

Wonder whether you have a follow-up to this, Julia?

[JuliaB]

If you read the entire article(as I should have before I posted it), you will find that the proposed mechanisms are speculated to be intrinsic in DNA, in some yet unknown way. The interpretation in the galaxy article infers that there is a transferring of information without a medium--hence "telepathy". The orginal article focuses more on intrinsic properties for futhur study.

The "telepathic" properties proposed by the article of my original post does appear to be a bit sensationalist in its use of the word "telepathic", but it hasn't asserted anything catagorically false. And by the way, there is no mention in the original article of awareness or consciousness, so I'm not sure where Mark's mention of that came from.
I would be surprised if the scientists involved in the study would use the term telepathic, but they are scratching their heads about it. My personal suspician is that there needs to be some understanding of the quantum effects at work. Analogously, in QM, the idea of teleportation and nonlocality could have been construed as "telepathic" as well.

"Telepathic" could be reinterpreted to mean "we just don't know how it works"

FYI here is the link to the full scientific article:

DNA Double Helices Recognize Mutual Sequence Homology in a Protein Free Environment - The Journal of Physical Chemistry B (ACS Publications) (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp7112297)

and here is the last paragraph of the study,

...However, regardless of the underlying mechanism, the
segregation of identical DNAs in highly hydrated cholesteric
spherulites provides evidence for homology recognition between
intact double helices through physical forces as an intrinsic
property of DNA. It is notable that some recognition of unknown
origin and pairing between homologous double helices has been
proposed as a necessary step preceding double strand breaks in
homologous DNA recombination within cells.24-26 Much work
remains to be done before we know the mechanism of the
recognition observed in the present study and whether this
recognition plays any role within the complex cellular environ-
ment, but the possibilities are intriguing. Here, our primary goal
was to demonstrate homology recognition in a concentrated
mixture of two fragments with the same base pair composition
and length but different sequences by using physical experiments
in a pure electrolytic solution. We hope that this report will
catalyze more detailed studies with DNA sequences of different
length and nucleotide composition in different environments. (5)


cheers!
Julia


Wonder whether you have a follow-up to this, Julia?

[Zeno Swijtink]

"Telepathic" could be reinterpreted to mean "we just don't know how it works"

You must be kidding, aren't you? It seems more the though pattern of someone who is afraid of not-knowing, and needs to plug in any situation of ignorance with a catch-all phrase that has the appearance of understanding.

I am also not clear why reference to quantum mechanical non-locality makes an analysis or phenomenon "spiritual"?

[JuliaB]

now you got me scratching my head, Zeno. I think you've completely misunderstood my post. What you just wrote is a way of saying what I said, (only you are stronger in your criticism).

and there was no reference to "spiritual" either. I refered to QM for two reasons: both analagously, because sometimes the idea of telepathy is invoked there and also as a possible direction to understand the phenomena.

Julia



You must be kidding, aren't you? It seems more the though pattern of someone who is afraid of not-knowing, and needs to plug in any situation of ignorance with a catch-all phrase that has the appearance of understanding.

I am also not clear why reference to quantum mechanical non-locality makes an analysis or phenomenon "spiritual"?