Efren Carrillo's actions speak louder than his words

[Alysson Wonderland]

There were two very different sub-sets of 5th District citizens who supported and voted for Carrillo for Supervisor.
1. Those who were impressed by: his youth and energy, his statements about the importance of water, clean air, "preservation" of forests, and by the fact that at last the Latino community would be represented on the Board of Supervisors.
2. Those in the BIG business community that saw through the pretty pictures of the west-county environment in his campaign literature, and his soothing words about listening to everybody and making the best decision based on facts. When these folks made their big donations to his campaign, they knew that Efren would use his vote on the Board to bring financial benefit to his campaign donors: the wine industry, the trash-hauling industry, and the gravel-mining industry.

Since taking office, Efren has wasted no time in showing us where his true alleigances lie. First he voted for Kendall Jackson's new winery, stating that the local economy needs the jobs; less than a week later, KJ announced a large lay-off. The irony is stunning. Then, this week, he voted in favor of the 24-hour asphalt plant on the Petaluma River, right across from the Schollenberger wetlands and within spitting distance of an egret rookery, despite the Petaluma City Council's unanimous oppositions to the project, despite 3,000 signatures gathered in two weeks on a petition opposing the project, and despite specific testimony that the project's plans are prohibited by the California Environmental Quality Act. Efren's handlers have taught him that all he has to do is ask a soft-ball question about some environmental aspect that is a side-issue, allowing the project-planners to say "oh, we can fix that," so that he can present himself as someone who cares deeply about the environment while voting to destroy it.

Voters in the 5th District who fall into subset #1 above, watch this guy carefully. He's a classic bait and switch. This last November, he was able to campaign on pretty pictures and soothing statements. Next time he runs, he'll have a voting record, and it will be neither pretty nor soothing.

[emvee]

Carillo is and has been bad news from the get-go, and now it should be obvious to the misguided who supported him.

There is a recall process available, and the sooner the better.




There were two very different sub-sets of 5th District citizens who supported and voted for Carrillo for Supervisor.
1. Those who were impressed by: his youth and energy, his statements about the importance of water, clean air, "preservation" of forests, and by the fact that at last the Latino community would be represented on the Board of Supervisors.
2. Those in the BIG business community that saw through the pretty pictures of the west-county environment in his campaign literature, and his soothing words about listening to everybody and making the best decision based on facts. When these folks made their big donations to his campaign, they knew that Efren would use his vote on the Board to bring financial benefit to his campaign donors: the wine industry, the trash-hauling industry, and the gravel-mining industry.

Since taking office, Efren has wasted no time in showing us where his true alleigances lie. First he voted for Kendall Jackson's new winery, stating that the local economy needs the jobs; less than a week later, KJ announced a large lay-off. The irony is stunning. Then, this week, he voted in favor of the 24-hour asphalt plant on the Petaluma River, right across from the Schollenberger wetlands and within spitting distance of an egret rookery, despite the Petaluma City Council's unanimous oppositions to the project, despite 3,000 signatures gathered in two weeks on a petition opposing the project, and despite specific testimony that the project's plans are prohibited by the California Environmental Quality Act. Efren's handlers have taught him that all he has to do is ask a soft-ball question about some environmental aspect that is a side-issue, allowing the project-planners to say "oh, we can fix that," so that he can present himself as someone who cares deeply about the environment while voting to destroy it.

Voters in the 5th District who fall into subset #1 above, watch this guy carefully. He's a classic bait and switch. This last November, he was able to campaign on pretty pictures and soothing statements. Next time he runs, he'll have a voting record, and it will be neither pretty nor soothing.

[riverosprey]

Hi Alysson Wonderland and Emvee...

I am one of those stalwart supporters of Efren Carrillo. I would love to engage in some healthy debate.

Do you have the conviction and courage and commitment to openly debate in a public forum under your real names? Who are you?

Open and transparent discussion of the future...are you able?

peace and love...
Tom Lynch
Guerneville
869-2375

[markwjam]

sounds like a lot of suckers fell for another charming, nice-looking,
polite politician....who is ready to screw everyone except
wealthy supporters

[photolite]

Tom,
You're a public figure comfortable with a public forum. As I'm sure you know public speaking ranks as the single most terrifying activity for most people. This shouldn't give people license to evade substantiating their allegations or representations. Providing people behave with civility in a discussion why not state and defend your position here?

I like Efrain and find the postings here disturbing. I'm well aware what I read here could be inaccurate or only part of the story presented to create a negative impression. So set the record straight if you're able. I'm sure I'm not the only one here interested in what you have to say.
Photo


Hi Alysson Wonderland and Emvee...

I am one of those stalwart supporters of Efren Carrillo. I would love to engage in some healthy debate.

Do you have the conviction and courage and commitment to openly debate in a public forum under your real names? Who are you?

Open and transparent discussion of the future...are you able?

peace and love...
Tom Lynch
Guerneville
869-2375

[elienos]

I am unfortunately not up to snuff on the Supervisors in the area, but I really feel like they have taken a big dump on Petalumas head. They have gotten Petaluma up in arms. All but Zane voted for this asphalt plant, despite large community outrage and unanimous opposition from the City Council. They voted to CHANGE THE COUNTY GENERAL PLAN BECAUSE DUTRA WANTS THEM TO. What is a general plan for? I can't get a business license to sell my art from my house (which is in an area zoned for business) because my driveway isn't big enough. Do you think I should get the city to rewrite the general plan? I bet Efrain fans wouldn't be so happy if they lived less than a mile from a new asphalt plant poised to pollute our parks and preserves and that no one wants except all powerful the people who don't live here.

That was my rant. Thank you very much.


Tom,
You're a public figure comfortable with a public forum. As I'm sure you know public speaking ranks as the single most terrifying activity for most people. This shouldn't give people license to evade substantiating their allegations or representations. Providing people behave with civility in a discussion why not state and defend your position here?

I like Efrain and find the postings here disturbing. I'm well aware what I read here could be inaccurate or only part of the story presented to create a negative impression. So set the record straight if you're able. I'm sure I'm not the only one here interested in what you have to say.
Photo

[Braggi]

... What is a general plan for? I can't get a business license to sell my art from my house (which is in an area zoned for business) because my driveway isn't big enough. Do you think I should get the city to rewrite the general plan? ...

You should petition the City Council about your issue. That's just what they're for. Not every law and not every plan suits every situation. It's possible you could get a variance and receive a permit to do what you want. You probably wouldn't have a lot of traffic even on your busiest day. That fact might be enough to get your application approved.

It's worth a shot.

-Jeff

[soulange]

I am unfortunately not up to snuff on the Supervisors in the area, but I really feel like they have taken a big dump on Petalumas head. They have gotten Petaluma up in arms. All but Zane voted for this asphalt plant, despite large community outrage and unanimous opposition from the City Council. They voted to CHANGE THE COUNTY GENERAL PLAN BECAUSE DUTRA WANTS THEM TO. What is a general plan for? I can't get a business license to sell my art from my house (which is in an area zoned for business) because my driveway isn't big enough. Do you think I should get the city to rewrite the general plan? I bet Efrain fans wouldn't be so happy if they lived less than a mile from a new asphalt plant poised to pollute our parks and preserves and that no one wants except all powerful the people who don't live here.

That was my rant. Thank you very much.

dear photo,

you can't even spell efren's name correctly and yet, you're defending him. check his votes and then defend.

soulange

[Zeno Swijtink]

I am one of those stalwart supporters of Efren Carrillo. I would love to engage in some healthy debate.


Yes, Tom, what's your view of the siting of Dutra's asphalt plant on that location on the Petaluma River? - Zeno

[Alysson Wonderland]

Yes, Tom, what's your view of the siting of Dutra's asphalt plant on that location on the Petaluma River? - Zeno

Yes, it might be interesting to hear Tom's reply to this question, particularly since he's one of Carrillo's appointees to the So Co Planning Commission. His answer could well give us some insight into what we might expect from that commission in the future.

[photolite]

Soulange,
What I said was this:


"I like Efrain and find the postings here disturbing. I'm well aware what I read here could be inaccurate or only part of the story presented to create a negative impression."


I didn't defend him, I said I like him. And I said I don't necessarily trust the motives or veracity of his detractors (in the same way you publicly state I defend him, which I haven't, yet.)

I don't know enough about these issues to argue either position. I'm only asking people here who apparently know more about this than I do for their insight.

What I do know is that I wouldn't want an asphalt plant in my neighborhood. But I also know that Sonoma County ranks last of all Bay Area Counties in the condition of our roads. And I know that people here find this to be a serious issue. I also know that it requires asphalt to address this issue, as well as gravel, and all this needs to come from somewhere and presumably the shorter distance it has to travel the better relative to other environmental issues as well as cost issues. So sometimes we find ourselves at cross purposes and difficult choices are required which unavoidably piss people off. To say Efren's in the pocket of Dutra, as others here have claimed, should be substantiated. If it can't be then it shouldn't be said. That's not defending Efren, it's defending open disclosure and fairness.

What I don't know, but would like to find out, is if any such issues relate to Efren's position here. And so I further state to Tom:

"So set the record straight if you're able. I'm sure I'm not the only one here interested in what you have to say."

Are there other asphalt plants already in operation sufficient to service the needs of the community? If so are there compelling reasons why we need another? If you know the answers to any of these questions I'm sincerely interested to hear what you've got to say.
Photo







dear photo,

you can't even spell efren's name correctly and yet, you're defending him. check his votes and then defend.

soulange

[riverosprey]

Dear fellow WaccoBB members...

Wow...I am learning a lot as a newly appointed planning commissioner.

I apologize to a couple WaccoBB contributors for my challenge to them to identify themselves and debate the issues; for it turns out I cannot.

I have been kindly and very diplomatically noticed by County staff that the Dutra Asphalt plant will very likely be going back on the Planning Commission agenda and there are certain protocols for Planning Commissioners avoiding any hint or conflict with their decisions.

I now can appreciate Rue Furch's frustration during an 18 month Supervisorial campaign that she could not share with anyone what her real impressions were of the Preservation Ranch Project as it may compromise her ability to vote on the issue. There is good reason Rue couldn't present her opinion.

I have been told by County staff that the protocol encouraged by the Planning Agency is that anyone contacting commissioners regarding any issue is as follows. Commissioners should tell anyone who e-mails, calls or speaks to them about an item that may be on the agenda...they should write their concerns down and send them to staff and have them passed out to ALL the Planning Agency appointees. We should tell them that we will personally pay close attention to their comments.

Technically I should forward on this whole thread to staff to forward on to other commissioners (...and I will).

There is good reason that we have rarely seen any comments from Rue on the WaccoBB bulletin board. As I too do not wish to see my vote compromised by any hint of bias I will be more careful in future. Most of you who know me appreciate my candor and my "issues oriented" style.

As a Planning Commissioner I am going to have to reinvent myself somewhat with fewer comments and statements alongside more questions.

Dian it's good to hear from you...Zeno thank you for your good works...and blessings to all on this thread.

with respect,
Tom Lynch

p.s. I firmly believe Efren Carrillo is a transformational figure for the Fifth District capable of addressing a lot of neglected problems that have plagued us for years. Please give him a chance...he is working 24/7 engaging everybody in the District...he is a phenomenal young man with a great empathy and understanding for the difficult path ahead.

[Zeno Swijtink]

Dear fellow WaccoBB members...

Wow...I am learning a lot as a newly appointed planning commissioner.

I have been kindly and very diplomatically noticed by County staff that the Dutra Asphalt plant will very likely be going back on the Planning Commission agenda and there are certain protocols for Planning Commissioners avoiding any hint or conflict with their decisions.

I now can appreciate Rue Furch's frustration during an 18 month Supervisorial campaign that she could not share with anyone what her real impressions were of the Preservation Ranch Project as it may compromise her ability to vote on the issue. There is good reason Rue couldn't present her opinion.

(...)
There is good reason that we have rarely seen any comments from Rue on the WaccoBB bulletin board. As I too do not wish to see my vote compromised by any hint of bias I will be more careful in future. Most of you who know me appreciate my candor and my "issues oriented" style.

(...)

p.s. I firmly believe Efren Carrillo is a transformational figure (...)

What do you mean, Tom?

Dutra will be APPROVED by transformational Efren and the rest of them (except for forward-looking Zane) and that will be the last the people will hear of it.

Efren will not be transformational until he dares to separate himself from that establishment crowd.

[Barry]

Dear fellow WaccoBB members...

Wow...I am learning a lot as a newly appointed planning commissioner.

I apologize to a couple WaccoBB contributors for my challenge to them to identify themselves and debate the issues; for it turns out I cannot.

I have been kindly and very diplomatically noticed by County staff that the Dutra Asphalt plant will very likely be going back on the Planning Commission agenda and there are certain protocols for Planning Commissioners avoiding any hint or conflict with their decisions....

Thanks for checking in with us, Tom. I've been eagerly awaiting your reply. Congrats on your appointment! And it seems fair enough that you can't comment further at this point. However I hope you will check back in with us after the issue comes before the planning commission and let us know how you voted and why, and how Efren votes and why.


p.s. I firmly believe Efren Carrillo is a transformational figure for the Fifth District capable of addressing a lot of neglected problems that have plagued us for years. Please give him a chance...he is working 24/7 engaging everybody in the District...he is a phenomenal young man with a great empathy and understanding for the difficult path ahead.

Gosh, I sure hope you are right, Tom. I'd love to say that I am an enthusiastic supporter of Efren's but I, and it seems many Wacco's are not there yet. I must say I was impressed by him personally but he gave very little indication of where his values lie. This will be a good test case.


Technically I should forward on this whole thread to staff to forward on to other commissioners (...and I will).

Excellent! Thanks, Tom! You heard him folks, let's consider this thread as part of the public record. So please keep you comments on-topic, thoughtful and respectful.

Maybe Tom or someone else can chime in with some links to some background information so we can all be better informed.

[Zeno Swijtink]

Maybe Tom or someone else can chime in with some links to some background information so we can all be better informed.

Save Shollenberger Park - Sonoma / Napa, CA | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1373163004&ref=nf#/profile.php?id=1373163004&v=info&viewas=33203787)

[Zeno Swijtink]

I have been kindly and very diplomatically noticed by County staff that the Dutra Asphalt plant will very likely be going back on the Planning Commission agenda and there are certain protocols for Planning Commissioners avoiding any hint or conflict with their decisions.


I am disappointed Tom, manure warrior, of seeing you folding yourself back into the envelope.

I had expected more of you, after what you wrote me earlier, that "we are in the midst of a great paradigm shift" and that you "used to think the "collapse" was three to five year away...but it may be now #@$!#%@#"

Are you also handing over your cell phone to County staff?

[elienos]

Whether we need asphalt is not the question. Building a 34 acre asphalt plant near seniors and toddlers and right next to a preserve and nesting nooks is a problem. Ignoring the wishes of the citizens and the entire city council is a problem. We pretend to be a democracy. I guess we are sort of getting there, but we definitely aren't the most democratic country in the world. Someday, right? Actually, I think they are trying to cash in on the Obama infrastructure projects...there will be a shortage in a year of so. But we're (the people of Petaluma have been doing fundraisers for lawyers!) poised to sue the county anyway, hopefully that can at least slow it down and maybe they will give up.

Anyway, needing asphalt is not the reason that we have bad roads. There is no shortage of asphalt (yet), sorry. There is a plant on Mecham (sp?) Road and in San Rafael. There are plenty of ugly areas away from people and preserves to put a plant. It is just the Dutra wants this one because they already own the land. They want it on the river for access. Their barge will stretch halfway across the river, making a beautiful obstacle course for all those boat enthusiasts. It will also be the first thing anyone sees on entering Sonoma COunty and Petaluma. In fact when the road is widened, there will be a sort of overpass there and everyone will be able to look straight down on acres and acres of asphalt materials. ahhh how beautiful. What great transformational thinking!

https://savesbpark.blogspot.com/



Soulange,
What I said was this:


"I like Efrain and find the postings here disturbing. I'm well aware what I read here could be inaccurate or only part of the story presented to create a negative impression."


I didn't defend him, I said I like him. And I said I don't necessarily trust the motives or veracity of his detractors (in the same way you publicly state I defend him, which I haven't, yet.)

I don't know enough about these issues to argue either position. I'm only asking people here who apparently know more about this than I do for their insight.

What I do know is that I wouldn't want an asphalt plant in my neighborhood. But I also know that Sonoma County ranks last of all Bay Area Counties in the condition of our roads. And I know that people here find this to be a serious issue. I also know that it requires asphalt to address this issue, as well as gravel, and all this needs to come from somewhere and presumably the shorter distance it has to travel the better relative to other environmental issues as well as cost issues. So sometimes we find ourselves at cross purposes and difficult choices are required which unavoidably piss people off. To say Efren's in the pocket of Dutra, as others here have claimed, should be substantiated. If it can't be then it shouldn't be said. That's not defending Efren, it's defending open disclosure and fairness.

What I don't know, but would like to find out, is if any such issues relate to Efren's position here. And so I further state to Tom:

"So set the record straight if you're able. I'm sure I'm not the only one here interested in what you have to say."

Are there other asphalt plants already in operation sufficient to service the needs of the community? If so are there compelling reasons why we need another? If you know the answers to any of these questions I'm sincerely interested to hear what you've got to say.
Photo

[photolite]

Elieonos,
Thank you for the overview of the primary issues regarding this project. The link you provided answered many of my questions and has spurred me to contact Efren's office. I'll let you know when and what I hear back from him.The facts as represented speak for themselves as to why this may not be such a good idea. So the four supes who voted in favor must have some rationale for doing this in our community which is famous for environmental activism. I want to find out what that is more specifically.

Regarding Efren's position the link you provided states:

Although Efren Carrillo stated that for now he would vote yes, he at least wanted questions about the project’s water usage as well as its relationship to water table levels answered.

Given the multitude of other issues I find it curious that water table levels is his only concern but at least there seems to be a possibility of his changing his position.
Photo



Whether we need asphalt is not the question. Building a 34 acre asphalt plant near seniors and toddlers and right next to a preserve and nesting nooks is a problem. Ignoring the wishes of the citizens and the entire city council is a problem. We pretend to be a democracy. I guess we are sort of getting there, but we definitely aren't the most democratic country in the world. Someday, right? Actually, I think they are trying to cash in on the Obama infrastructure projects...there will be a shortage in a year of so. But we're (the people of Petaluma have been doing fundraisers for lawyers!) poised to sue the county anyway, hopefully that can at least slow it down and maybe they will give up.

Anyway, needing asphalt is not the reason that we have bad roads. There is no shortage of asphalt (yet), sorry. There is a plant on Mecham (sp?) Road and in San Rafael. There are plenty of ugly areas away from people and preserves to put a plant. It is just the Dutra wants this one because they already own the land. They want it on the river for access. Their barge will stretch halfway across the river, making a beautiful obstacle course for all those boat enthusiasts. It will also be the first thing anyone sees on entering Sonoma COunty and Petaluma. In fact when the road is widened, there will be a sort of overpass there and everyone will be able to look straight down on acres and acres of asphalt materials. ahhh how beautiful. What great transformational thinking!

Save Shollenberger Park (https://savesbpark.blogspot.com/)

["Mad" Miles]

So the four supes who voted in favor must have some rationale for doing this in our community which is famous for environmental activism.

Ummm, Photolite,

How long have you been following county politics at the Sup's level?

Four out of five sup's have ALWAYS been in the pocket of building, development interests. Just follow the money.

With the last election it's just that the environmental vote flipped from the 5th to the 3rd District.

Too bad Rue didn't win. That would have meant two against three instead of the one against four that has existed since I've been living here.

(Starting in August of '79, but I started visiting regularly, and read the paper when I was here at the holidays and in the Spring for a couple of weeks at a time, since '89.)

What is almost a miracle is the recent shift on the SR City Council.

Unfortunately, unprecedented bad economic times, at least since the Great Depression, will probably hamstring the Progressives there.

Same as it ever was.....

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[Alysson Wonderland]

Dear fellow WaccoBB members...


p.s. I firmly believe Efren Carrillo is a transformational figure for the Fifth District capable of addressing a lot of neglected problems that have plagued us for years. Please give him a chance...he is working 24/7 engaging everybody in the District...he is a phenomenal young man with a great empathy and understanding for the difficult path ahead.


Tom, I'm waiting to see what you mean by "transformational" and "neglected problems." I fear that, judging by the vineyard, gravel-mining, industrial agriculture, and waste-hauling campaign contributions Carrillo accepted and used, we should not be surprised if the "neglected problems" Carrillo will be addressing are the regulations and laws that have protected the forests and watersheds in Sonoma County from those companies, and the "transformation" will come at the expense of lovely west-county, which will be so transformed that we won't recognize huge swaths of our home. Carrillo can persuade me that he means to do right by the environment if he reverses his stance and votes against the Dutra asphalt plant at Haystack Landing. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[soulange]

please bear in mind that tom lynch was appointed by carillo to replace rue on the planning commission. is he a disinterested observer? i don't think so.

[photolite]

Miles,
You're right. I only started following the Supe level politics in this most recent election. By my own admission I have a lot to learn and am only trying to parse out the facts from the partisan fray.

What first caught my attention regarding Rue v. Efren was the fact that Rue had neglected to pay her property taxes. On this site it struck me that Rue's supporters tended to respond to this transgression with invective towards Efren as opposed to holding their own candidate responsible. Efren had nothing to do with this yet when it was invoked the response often addressed him more than her.

Like so many of us, I've had my dealings with County Planning and in general I've found them to be at best frustrating and at worst almost punitive. I've seen ordinary and reasonable projects inflated by tens of thousands of dollars on seemingly arbitrary positions. I have never had a single face to face discussion with any property owner in this county who didn't relate a similar tale. So when an individual responsible for directing the mission of this Dept. is found to be derelict in their responsibilities as a citizen, regardless of their politics there will be voter reaction.

So now we have Efren who seems off to an inauspicious start. Love him or hate him, he's the guy we have to work with. My choice is to pursue dialogue and reason first. If he feels undeservedly maligned he has absolutely no reason to listen to us whatsoever.
Photo



Ummm, Photolite,

How long have you been following county politics at the Sup's level?

Four out of five sup's have ALWAYS been in the pocket of building, development interests. Just follow the money.

With the last election it's just that the environmental vote flipped from the 5th to the 3rd District.

Too bad Rue didn't win. That would have meant two against three instead of the one against four that has existed since I've been living here.

(Starting in August of '79, but I started visiting regularly, and read the paper when I was here at the holidays and in the Spring for a couple of weeks at a time, since '89.)

What is almost a miracle is the recent shift on the SR City Council.

Unfortunately, unprecedented bad economic times, at least since the Great Depression, will probably hamstring the Progressives there.

Same as it ever was.....

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[elienos]

You know, some support against this Asphalt Plant (Because of its location location and because its Durta who is notorious for being a lying bad polluting neighbor in Marin) in the direction of Efren from some citizens of Sebastopol might just heal some strife between Petaluma and Sebastopol. (I am referring to certain posts I have seen of citizens from one town digging into the other) Sometimes when we think local we become too local.

We have been having this discussion here in Petaluma. Many of us Petalumans are pretty happy with our city council and Mayor. The business-over-community folks were recently voted out and the council is pretty balanced. The Sup from our district sucks but he is just leftover...the supervisor seat wasn't up for reelection in the last election. I bet Kerns (our sup over here) would be voted out this next election...except that he isn't running next year...perhaps this has given him a bigger license to be indifferent to the people. The point being, even if our sup voted for it, it is votes from other districts that could have (and still could) stopped the whole project. This is a big issue here.

Too bad so many of us don't see how much we are connected even as a county. And some of us are just starting to think about it. Citizens of Sebastopol: the citizens of Petaluma could use your help. You could use your help too. It isn't good for anyone, but especially Petaluma. I've already written Efren. The final vote isn't until next month.

It still burns me that they JUST finished writing the general plan, with much input from the community about what we would like to see as far as development in Sonoma...and less than a year later they want to change it for Durta of all people...AARGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

[wildflower]

Doncha Know?
We need ASPHALT so we can drive these damn cars wherever we want to go!!
Where would a GOOD place for an asphalt plant be?
How about NOWHERE!
I DIDN'T vote for EFREN and I warned others about him! It was plain to see for anyone with half a brain!
ARRRRGHHHHH!
the wilted wildflower
:thumbsup:


Whether we need asphalt is not the question. Building a 34 acre asphalt plant near seniors and toddlers and right next to a preserve and nesting nooks is a problem. Ignoring the wishes of the citizens and the entire city council is a problem. We pretend to be a democracy. I guess we are sort of getting there, but we definitely aren't the most democratic country in the world. Someday, right? Actually, I think they are trying to cash in on the Obama infrastructure projects...there will be a shortage in a year of so. But we're (the people of Petaluma have been doing fundraisers for lawyers!) poised to sue the county anyway, hopefully that can at least slow it down and maybe they will give up.

Anyway, needing asphalt is not the reason that we have bad roads. There is no shortage of asphalt (yet), sorry. There is a plant on Mecham (sp?) Road and in San Rafael. There are plenty of ugly areas away from people and preserves to put a plant. It is just the Dutra wants this one because they already own the land. They want it on the river for access. Their barge will stretch halfway across the river, making a beautiful obstacle course for all those boat enthusiasts. It will also be the first thing anyone sees on entering Sonoma COunty and Petaluma. In fact when the road is widened, there will be a sort of overpass there and everyone will be able to look straight down on acres and acres of asphalt materials. ahhh how beautiful. What great transformational thinking!

Save Shollenberger Park (https://savesbpark.blogspot.com/)

[elienos]

Here is the Mayor of Petaluma's guest commentary of the proposed plant. FYI
https://www.petaluma360.com/article/20090211/COMMUNITY/902110157/1381/COMMUNITY0802?Title=Wrong_place_for_asphalt_plant



One thing we CAN do is sign the petition (go to URL below) and call our supes. Perhaps those of us who voted for Rue are concerned about the reception we'll have from Efren; I know I am. I've already received a demurrer from him to an important meeting on the change in estuary management at the mouth of the Russian. Nonetheless I feel the responsibility to actively oppose bad environmental projects. What will be transformational, imo, will be the attention paid to the southern part of the 5th district.
Save Shollenberger Park (https://savesbpark.blogspot.com/)
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

[elienos]

Actually a third of Argus's opinion page is about the plant and the supervisors...especially Kerns.

https://www.petaluma360.com/section/community08

Maybe Efren could flip??? With pressure?



Here is the Mayor of Petaluma's guest commentary of the proposed plant. FYI
https://www.petaluma360.com/article/20090211/COMMUNITY/902110157/1381/COMMUNITY0802?Title=Wrong_place_for_asphalt_plant

[photolite]

I notice in her commentary that Mayor Torliatt has serious concerns about the air quality related to this project. I just heard that Efren finds air quality to be a troublesome aspect of this project as well.
Photo



Here is the Mayor of Petaluma's guest commentary of the proposed plant. FYI
Wrong place for asphalt plant | Petaluma360.com | Petaluma Argus-Courier | Petaluma, CA (https://www.petaluma360.com/article/20090211/COMMUNITY/902110157/1381/COMMUNITY0802?Title=Wrong_place_for_asphalt_plant)

[Bryan]

No one wants an asphalt plant. Or a sewage treatment. Or a cement plant. Or a dump. Or any of those unslightly things that make the modern world go around. Go figure! I am so surprised!

That said, I am very much against modifying the General Plan. There is a big difference between a variance and a modification of the plan. A variance means the project is substantially within the boundaries but some specific issue is outside the defined rules. For example, if your driveway is not wide enough according to the specific rules for a business, you can ask for a variance. You may not get it, but you can ask and it doesn’t cost a lot. The staff should encourage you to ask IF it is possible for the local board to grant a variance. The planning staff's job is to inform you about a variance.

A zoning change to the general plan, though, is quite different. It means the project isn’t zoned for the site at all and the zoning must be changed. This is generally very difficult to achieve, for one reason that a specific landowner is benefiting against the other local landowners. The other landowners were informed by the general plan of the types of activities nearby. If the board changes the type ad-hoc, those other landowners should consider demanding their own changes to the plan going forward. That is why boards don't want to approve changes outside the normal 10 year review (which is controversial enoght)

Big business needs to follow the same rules we all have to follow OR get the rules changed for everyone. I didn't follow this specific issue in Petaluma, but am very concerned about the Planning commission or the Supes changing the General Plan for any specific project. The little guy can't afford all the legal fees and EIR etc that are required to convince the board that they are in their legal rights to effectively demand the changes.

I would also like to go WAY out on a limb and respond to Tom's comments. I am sure he wants to do the right thing in his new position. I have had my own dealings with the county and wanted to offer my (unsolicited) reaction.

I would like to know alot more about what the county staff is advising here. It is true that any specific item ON the agenda or likely to be on the agenda in the near term may impact what a board member should say in public. At that time. On those specific projects. Until such time as the board is done.

However, I do believe that a board member can always talk in general terms about issues that are raised to let the community (that he/she represents) know what they think about issues.

I have found that staff thinks board members works for the county. In fact, board members work for the public. They are the (elected or appointed) representatives of the public and make decisions based upon that position. Staff, who ARE employees of the county, cannot make those decisions. Staff should advise board members but are not to make decisions for them.

For example, if there are true legal risks of turning down a project, the staff should advise them of those risks and the potential costs. However, the board can still go forward in spite of those risks. Boards RARELY will do so as they think the legal risks, no matter how small, outweigh any true planning goals. Go figure.

Board members should make certain that the advice from the staff is in fact professional AND thorough. For example, in terms of public comments on agenda items, the staff should provide a clear, written set of guidelines to follow which should have ALREADY been provided to Tom when he was appointed.

Generally, once an issue is on the agenda, Tom may need to close the door to private conversations to avoid failure to report those contacts. Its easier than risking a legal challenge. However, many public and private discussions occur long before that actual legal step - find out specifically what that means.

BTW, Supes meet with people ALL THE TIME to discuss issues that may later become agenda items. They do so individually not together as that is a different violation. However, they also follow the law to report contacts if that in fact is required. Is the staff saying 'don't talk one on one with ANYONE about something that may come to the board'. Or are they saying ‘you must report contacts with anyone outside of the public hearing’?

Generally, they are right that people with comments should be encouraged to mail a letter to the board as a whole and then all of the members will receive their comments with everyone else. That eliminates the perception of backroom deals.

However, is the staff saying 'you shouldn't discuss this issue because it may prejudice your vote in the future'? Do they mean you must report the conversations? So what - make a list of people and provide it to the staff. Do you have to report the content of the conversations? I have never seen anything like that provided by a board member so I do not understand if that was the message. Is there a differnce between an item SET for a specific agenda and items that MAY be set for an agenda?

Are they talking about 'bias'? Or are they talking about 'conflict of interest'? What specifically are they saying?

Can a board member make a public statement such as: "While I am not commenting on this application, I am generally against modifying the general plan. I believe my job as a planning commissioner is to follow the general plan. I do not like projects that try to change the general plan UNLESS I am convinced that the plan itself is seriously flawed or otherwise so inadequate that in fact, it needs to be changed. Of course we take each application on its own merits...blah blah blah"

Is the staff saying that basically, you are now on a board and all of your public comments can be used against you in a court of law?!? I do not agree that a board member really becomes some quasi-secret person who cannot express themselves in public. Mostly, board members have too many projects to review to really make public pronouncements on any one.

The public do tend to have a hard time differentiating between a member’s personal views and the view of the board as a whole. They don't want secret meetings that allow people to influence decisions. But if the member is to do his/her job - and needs to report such meetings - what is the issue?

That all said, board meetings ARE public and planning commission members should clearly ask direct questions of the people presenting their projects. It is also their job to state opinions about projects that are in front of them, and to do that in public. I am not sure what Tom means by saying that Rue couldn't let people know what she 'thought' of a project that she was reviewing in a public setting. If she was being so careful not to show a hint of 'bias' - maybe she was misled as to how to conduct herself in public. All board members have a bias. It is important to ask FAIR questions. to make FAIR statements. to not make any statements that clearly show they are violating their oath of office. To maintain some impartiality so that bias doesn't make them ineffective with the other members of the board. Most boards are run by getting 2 other people to vote with you. Effective members can get those other votes.

Does it mean 'don't express any opinion until you vote up or down on the project'. That type of board member is de facto ineffective. If Rue couldn't make clear in the public meetings how she felt about her job and the various issues raised, I would assume she didn't have an opinion. Outside of those meetings, yes she may not want to comment directly on a specific project to ensure the board as a whole appears fair. But can she discuss the general issues that are raised? How she feels about those issues?

I wish Tom a lot of luck in the new job. Given the demands of that job (numerous meetings, study, more study, etcetcetc) I wouldn’t expect Tom to have a lot of time to educate the community about all the various issues. However, I would be interested to see just what is possible for any board member to do to help the public understand what is going on.

[Alysson Wonderland]

[quote=elienos;82441]Actually a third of Argus's opinion page is about the plant and the supervisors...especially Kerns.

Community - Opinion | Petaluma360.com | Petaluma Argus-Courier | Petaluma, CA (https://www.petaluma360.com/section/community08)

It's interesting to note that Don Bennett, who writes a column for the Argus, and has written there extensively in favor of the Dutra project, actually sits on the Sonoma Planning Commission, and is one of the commissioners who voted to approve the project last summer. Although the Argus includes a tag that states those facts, most people don't read those tags. Bennett's opinion pieces that support the project are self-serving for him. The Argus Courier has a responsibility to print a column by either Pam Torliatt, mayor of Petaluma, or Dave Keller of the Petalum River Council, responding to Bennett's comments.

[riverosprey]

Thank you fellow Waccovians for lot's of great feedback!

Thanks to Bryan for a very good summation of some of the issues and to Allyson for her example of one of my fellow Planning Agency members writing collumns in support of Dutra.

Yes indeed Dutra is coming back to the Planning Commission on the March 5th Agenda. I am actually on the Board of Zoning Adjustments but I will be filling in for Pam Davis on the Planning Commission that day as Pam will be on vacation (maybe she left on purpose to avoid the controversy :hmmm:...just kidding). I started my rotation on the Planning Agency as a BZA member.

A little background on how the "Planning Agency" works. Each Supervisor appoints two members to the Planning Agency, which consists of two entities. Five members, one from each Supervisorial District serves on the Board of Zoning Adjustments; the other five members serve on the Planning Commission. The members rotate every ten months between the two entities. Pam Davis is finishing a term on the Planning Commission, as I am on the Board of Zoning Adjustment April 1st then we switch. (I will go into more detail as to what the Planning Agency does in the near future).

Here's the deal for me. I want to do the office justice in service to the Fifth District and Sonoma County and will err on the side of caution as I go through the learning curve. As I get more comfortable with what I can and can't say I will engage and share more with conversations.

Rue Furch is very graciously meeting with fellow Planning Agency appointtee Pam Davis and myself this coming week. We are looking forward to listening to many of Rue's insights from her 18 year service to our community while on the Planning Agency.

Again thank you all for your good works.

with respect,
Tom Lynch

[Alysson Wonderland]

[quote=tacitus;82506]I followed the link for the opinion page and found this from a letter by Daniel Turner: "The daily activity of Dutra’s asphalt plant will disrupt the wildlife and ecosystem of Shollenberger Park, which has undergone many years of restoration." Was it a public or private agency who did the restoration? What do they have to say about this? If the supes vote this in I'd think there are sufficient grounds for liigation.


Shollenberger Park was created through a cooperation of several public and private projects. See this article here - the whole piece is quite interesting:
Dredging up an Avian Oasis &mdash; Bay Nature Institute (https://baynature.org/articles/jul-sep-2004/petalumas-shollenberger-park)

and here's a quote from the article:

"Then in 1984, Tom Furrer, a local biology teacher, had his students study the creek to find out what it would take to bring it back to life. An ongoing class project grew from there. The students planted thousands of trees, lobbied the city to rebuild the creek's channel and tear down an old dam, and even started a steelhead hatchery at the school. The work, which continues to this day, has paid off. Not only is Adobe Creek much healthier, but the students' energy and enthusiasm helped inspire efforts to restore other wetlands near Shollenberger Park and along the rest of the Petaluma River."