What’s the Most Important Question the Grocery Clerk Should Ask?

[Portia]

What’s the Most Important Question the Grocery Clerk Should Ask?
Hint: It’s not "Paper or Plastic?"
By Portia Sinnott, LITE Founder and Executive Director, 2003

The purpose of this article is to stir up discussion, to inspire those of us who have gotten a tad sloppy in our habits and, last but not least, to make a connection in your mind between bag reuse and driving less.

Recently, I have been using bag reuse to motivate audiences to drive-less and carpool. They respond warmly to the cross-pollination and laugh at my bag props. This strategy works well because being reminded of one familiar sustainable practice encourages an individual to consider a new one. Interestingly enough, this reminder does not seem to be dependent on the individual’s current or even past participation, but instead on what the practice means to them.

To successfully reuse bags, you must develop the habit of stashing a few in your trunk, purse or backpack, or remember them every time you head for the store. Many people find this very inconvenient and reject the whole idea out-of-hand. Yet, experienced bag reusers report that once the commitment is made, the practice quickly becomes second nature, and is only inconvenient when we forget our bags. Money saved at the cash register is a good reinforcement, but often the best reminder is seeing your friends reuse bags. Trees saved and pollution prevented are the most commonly mentioned rewards, but for some (me) the most tangible reward is fewer bags piled up next to the refrigerator.

Driving less and more efficiently utilizes the same exact steps - commitment, time and resource management, reinforcement and reward. And the potential rewards are even better – much, much more pollution prevented, fewer traffic jams and life threatening experiences, better financial and personal time management, and more opportunities to relax, get in shape, explore the neighborhood and develop a better social life via carpooling.

So what is the question the grocery clerk should ask? Perhaps you can suggest something shorter and more appealing then: "Are you planning vehicle trips carefully to minimize your use of time and natural resources?"

Every time you hear "Paper or Plastic?" please be reminded to reuse bags and drive less.

To respond to this article, please send a note to [email protected].

[Shandi]

For me, and maybe others, it's a question of remembering several things.

Once you have the bags you prefer using, it's a matter of
1. Remember to put them in the car where you're most likely to see them. I leave mine on the passenger seat, but of course they get moved when I have a passenger. Then I have to Remember to put them back.

2. Remember to take them in to the store.

3. Once, home and unpacked, Remember to take them back out to the car. I leave them by the front door, which sometimes helps me to Remember.

But like any habits, after a time, they become second nature, if the end result is important.

Thanks for reminding us about developing beneficial habits; it's easy to get into sloppy habits.

Clerks will still have to ask "Paper or Plastic" unless there is no choice.
What about if the stores stop providing bags? Then we'll have to use our own. Maybe a step in the right direction.

A question I almost never hear is "would you like your cold items bagged together?" Many times they aren't, and it's more than inconvenient. Sometimes after shopping, I'm too tired to put things away, but if all the cold items are packed together, it makes life a lot easier.

Sandy


What’s the Most Important Question the Grocery Clerk Should Ask?
Hint: It’s not "Paper or Plastic?"
By Portia Sinnott, LITE Founder and Executive Director, 2003

The purpose of this article is to stir up discussion, to inspire those of us who have gotten a tad sloppy in our habits and, last but not least, to make a connection in your mind between bag reuse and driving less.

Recently, I have been using bag reuse to motivate audiences to drive-less and carpool. They respond warmly to the cross-pollination and laugh at my bag props. This strategy works well because being reminded of one familiar sustainable practice encourages an individual to consider a new one. Interestingly enough, this reminder does not seem to be dependent on the individual’s current or even past participation, but instead on what the practice means to them.

To successfully reuse bags, you must develop the habit of stashing a few in your trunk, purse or backpack, or remember them every time you head for the store. Many people find this very inconvenient and reject the whole idea out-of-hand. Yet, experienced bag reusers report that once the commitment is made, the practice quickly becomes second nature, and is only inconvenient when we forget our bags. Money saved at the cash register is a good reinforcement, but often the best reminder is seeing your friends reuse bags. Trees saved and pollution prevented are the most commonly mentioned rewards, but for some (me) the most tangible reward is fewer bags piled up next to the refrigerator.

Driving less and more efficiently utilizes the same exact steps - commitment, time and resource management, reinforcement and reward. And the potential rewards are even better – much, much more pollution prevented, fewer traffic jams and life threatening experiences, better financial and personal time management, and more opportunities to relax, get in shape, explore the neighborhood and develop a better social life via carpooling.

So what is the question the grocery clerk should ask? Perhaps you can suggest something shorter and more appealing then: "Are you planning vehicle trips carefully to minimize your use of time and natural resources?"

Every time you hear "Paper or Plastic?" please be reminded to reuse bags and drive less.

To respond to this article, please send a note to [email protected].

[The A Team]

How about-" did you drive or bike today?"
and if you bike/walk get 5% off the tab.
Last time I shopped the checker was shocked we were taking 8 bags of food on a bike (trailer).


What’s the Most Important Question the Grocery Clerk Should Ask?
Hint: It’s not "Paper or Plastic?"
By Portia Sinnott, LITE Founder and Executive Director, 2003

The purpose of this article is to stir up discussion, to inspire those of us who have gotten a tad sloppy in our habits and, last but not least, to make a connection in your mind between bag reuse and driving less.
...

["Mad" Miles]

Hey Fellow Defenders and Lovers of our Environment,

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh here, and I've withheld this comment for a couple of days because I don't want to come off as an asshole who is trying to burst anyone's bubble.

But if I'm shopping somewhere, and about to pay, and some retail clerk/cashier asked me how I got to and from the store, it would seriously piss me off!!!

I would rethink shopping there and try to find some place that didn't confront me with love-bombing sanctimonious personal inquiries into my environmental choices as to how I get around to take care of my needs. (food, shelter, income, etc.)

"Paper or Plastic?", is fine. That gives me a choice and prompts an occasional conversation about the environment and which one is better, or worse, for our planet.

But the fact that I live in an irrational market-based capitalist system (through no choice of my own by the way, none of us were asked before we were born, as far as I can remember, correct me if I'm wrong and have somehow forgotten!?), where transportation during the last three or four generations has been built around the internal combustion engine and personal automobile ownership, how is that my fault? (As implied by the proposed question at the start of this thread.)

I don't live in a big city. I live in a suburban semi-rural outlying area where public transport is minimal, extremely inconvenient and distances between services are far. I commute fifty miles, one way, to work and back. I can't afford to live closer, because of price and the need to have a less stressful home setting. I don't want to move because of where my home is located. I love it here. I tried getting work that was much, much closer. It didn't happen.

Yes, I try to combine trips and do my shopping during my afternoon commute home. Yes, I drive a relatively fuel efficient car, which was a key attribute when I bought it, and will be a key component in my decision when I have to replace it.

But bicycling from Forestville to San Quentin to go to work, and bicycling between F'Ville, Santa Rosa, Cotati, Sebastopol and Petaluma to shop, eat and play, are frankly, just not on.

Busses? I've already addressed that.

Carpooling? I did that my first nine months at my job. We stopped when my schedule was changed and his wasn't.

I live alone, am reluctantly single, and prize my privacy and flexible schedule. Most of all I value the freedom to choose where to go, and when to go, wherever I want, when I want to. Basic scheduling and work requirement issues being the only constraints.

I've said for years that the only experience of personal autonomy and actual power that Americans (U.S.) and others have on a daily basis, is driving their car.

Yeah, when the oil runs out, post-industrial "civilization" collapses, the bands of urban cannibals (after all the other food is exhausted) have been curbed (assuming they don't just take over and institute it as the nutrient basis for all of human society, in an industrially ravaged world ecosystem don't count that extreme worst-case possibility out), and the few survivors rebuild... Well if there are any domesticable quadripeds left, we'll be back to riding them. And our range of travel will be commensurably limited.

But before then, if anyone thinks our environmental problems are going to be solved by getting people to stop driving, or to severely reduce and constrict their driving at the least, they/you are living in a fantasy world with little or no connection to contemporary reality.

Questions about what we drive, how much it costs both economically and ecologically are legitimate. I'm all for minimum fuel standards, alternative energy, high mpg vehicles, vehicle sharing, real efficient convenient public transportation, etc..

I voted for SMART, twice. If it ever gets re/built, depending on the schedule and commute time, I'll consider using it for my daily run down to The Q and back. That's four days a week.

But I already work a ten hour shift. The drive is forty to fifty minutes depending on the time and consequent traffic flow. (Yes, I exceed the speed limit when it is safe to do so.)

Adding another hour or two on both ends would be prohibitive. I suppose with a laptop and wifi (Oh I forgot, that makes some people sick and is therefore antisocial) I could hack it. I could take care of my electronic communication and information needs during the commute. Maybe they'll have a restuarant/bar car, that would be sweet!

But come on. Not everyone, in fact most, don't, live, work, shop and play within the same five to ten mile radius. It's going to take a lot more than intrusive irritating questions from cashiers to make that happen.

In the meantime, leave me the fuck alone! I can make my own informed choices without being guilt-tripped every time I buy groceries!!!

Does anyone wonder why hippy, crunchy eco-types (you're my peeps by the way) are resented, even hated, by many, many straights?

Well, this discussion thread is a prime example as to why.

Change comes through sustained mass direct action (preferably non-violent), in combination with circumstantial shifts in what is socially/economically possible. (Industrialization, Capitalist Urbanization, Cheap Energy during the Oil Age, Imminent constrictions due to Peak Oil, Climate Crisis, War, etc.)

It doesn't come from being asked pesky questions at the checkout stand.

Jeeze.

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[The A Team]

Actually, I was kidding about having clerks ask if you drive or bike. I don't think that asking paper or plastic? has helped much. People will do whatever they will.


Hey Fellow Defenders and Lovers of our Environment,

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh here, and I've withheld this comment for a couple of days because I don't want to come off as an asshole who is trying to burst anyone's bubble.

But if I'm shopping somewhere, and about to pay, and some retail clerk/cashier asked me how I got to and from the store, it would seriously piss me off!!! ...

[shellebelle]

I; like Miles; have tried not to comment on this thread. But now that he opened the door; I apparently am happy to step through and up to the mic!

Most important question:
Can I get you anything else?
Did you find everything?
Can I help you find . . . ?

I agree mostly with Miles. I think the truth is everyone has to be self responsible.

I dare anyone to try to walk in my shoes a week. You'd quit life quick; dead serious! And commuting is a big part of it! BUT I also get paid a reasonable and fair wage that allows me to support the local Sebastopol economy. So many who talk about sustainability are not self sustaining - doesn't help the cause. Or worse they are self sustaining in something not viably re-creatable!

I don't need any stranger telling or questioning me - I HATED and DESPISED it when the anti-abortionists asked (and yes I flamed them for it) and I HATE it just as much when it comes to ecology or any other subject.

Not to say I don't enjoy a solid conversation with friends and family on the subject but family is not a stranger in a store. My life choices are mine to make; they are not for public scrutiny!

Of course I guess I could be talked into allowing it as long as I can talk/scrutinize to you about your life choices publicly.



Shelley discusses life choices at full volume
So how's your sex life?
So how was sex last night?
Did you fuck your husband or someone else's?
How's that affair you are having?

Oh yes I can go on! The ability is endless in this community!

If we want to discuss life choices expect your skeletons to be talked about and your intimate laundry to be flapping in the breeze!



If you want to discuss my life choices with me
- it's much like oral sex -
YOU DAMN WELL BETTER KNOW ME REALLLY WELL!
And I'm serious!Just because I am in public does not mean my personal choices are up for public review!

We seem to forget as a society we have "rights" and that includes the "right" to make our own life decisions and have personal choices respected without public scrutiny.


Ok vent over and like Mile's I love you all.








In the meantime, leave me the fuck alone! I can make my own informed choices without being guilt-tripped every time I buy groceries!!!

Does anyone wonder why hippy, crunchy eco-types (you're my peeps by the way) are resented, even hated, by many, many straights?

Well, this discussion thread is a prime example as to why.

Change comes through sustained mass direct action (preferably non-violent), in combination with circumstantial shifts in what is socially/economically possible. (Industrialization, Capitalist Urbanization, Cheap Energy during the Oil Age, Imminent constrictions due to Peak Oil, Climate Crisis, War, etc.)

It doesn't come from being asked pesky questions at the checkout stand.

Jeeze.

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[Portia]

Thanks everyone for reacting to my piece on driving less and bags. Feedback and ferment is great!

Yes, my question is primarily rhetorical - designed to get brains going. I did not really think grocery stores were going to change their method of operating... I will revisit it sometime soon and add a bit here and there based on your comments. I also have a short piece on bag reuse and trees but it must be updated before I post it.

P


Actually, I was kidding about having clerks ask if you drive or bike. I don't think that asking paper or plastic? has helped much. People will do whatever they will.

[Melodymama]

Hey Fellow Defenders and Lovers of our Environment,


"Paper or Plastic?", is fine. That gives me a choice and prompts an occasional conversation about the environment and which one is better, or worse, for our planet.

But the fact that I live in an irrational market-based capitalist system (through no choice of my own by the way, none of us were asked before we were born, as far as I can remember, correct me if I'm wrong and have somehow forgotten!?), where transportation during the last three or four generations has been built around the internal combustion engine and personal automobile ownership, how is that my fault? (As implied by then.

Yes, I try to combine trips and do my shopping during my afternoon commute home. Yes, I drive a relatively fuel efficient car, which was a key attribute when I bought it, and will be a key component in my decision when I have to replace it.

I've said for years that the only experience of personal autonomy and actual power that Americans (U.S.) and others have on a daily basis, is driving their car.

I voted for SMART, twice. If it ever gets re/built, depending on the schedule and commute time, I'll consider using it for my daily run down to The Q and back. That's four days a week.

In the meantime, leave me the fuck alone! I can make my own informed choices without being guilt-tripped every time I buy groceries!!!
Does anyone wonder why hippy, crunchy eco-types (you're my peeps by the way) are resented, even hated, by many, many straights?
Jeeze.

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

Just chill out there, MM, no one thinks you are thoughtless. Methinks you overthink and I just want to say how much I respect how you manage to stay so informed and manage such a schedule. Maybe we all need a NANNA to call us once a week and ask how we are improving our environmental stewardship. Like,
"Well, Honey, are you resusing your dirty clothes to clean the bathroom. Did you wear the clothes several times before you washed? Did you remember to shower only if a friend is visiting? Are you letting the floor have it's own protective layer instead of using electricity to suck it all away each week?Every little bit helps, and we all need to do our bit." And, btw, you are too cute and smart to be reluctantly single. Do you mean ambivalently single? LaLaLaura

[theindependenteye]

Actually, I kinda like the questions in Shelley's signature. Why doesn't that grocery clerk get down to the essentials:

>>So how's your sex life?
>> So how was sex last night?
>> Did you fuck your husband or someone else's?
>> How's that affair you are having?

Seriously, for me the greatest reform of our grocery-buying system that we could make could be made instantly by each of us. Grab a bag and bag your own groceries.

That's standard practice in Europe, and it doesn't take master's in engineering to put the hard square stuff on the bottom, then the hard round stuff, then the soft stuff, and then the eggs on top. But I see countless customers standing there bored while the clerk rings up a full basketful, and then standing there bored watching the clerk pack everything. Meantime, four people waiting in line.

If you're struggling with your small kids, that's an exception. Or if there's a bagger. Or if it actually takes you 3 minutes to dig your money out of your purse. But most of the time, as I see it, it's just people following custom, or maybe feeling it's part of their innate human right to be "served." But it means that that person has probably been waiting in line five minutes longer than they would otherwise, waiting for others to do the same damned thing.

Indeed, this is not the source of all evil in the world, but it would be kinda nice if a few people tried it once in a while. I've even gotten a few "thanks" from tired grocery clerks.

Cheers—
Conrad

[Dynamique]

Great idea! Even better, bring your own bag and start loading them up.

At Costco and Oliver's I put my own bags and baskets in the cart and just load them up while shopping. Raw meat and eggs go in one bag, produce in another, etc. Then at checkout time, the loaded bags go on the conveyor belt. If the clerk has a mobile hand scanner, s/he can scan the items right in the bag. Otherwise, they tend to take an item out, scan/weigh it, and then put it back in. Checking and bagging are pretty much taken care of in one process.

Perhaps the question the checker should ask is "Do you want bags or did you bring your own?" If the store provides you with bags, then they should charge you 5 cents EACH instead of giving a 5 cent discount if you bring your own.



Seriously, for me the greatest reform of our grocery-buying system that we could make could be made instantly by each of us. Grab a bag and bag your own groceries.

[amalia]

It seems like you're missing part of Portia's question: Do you ever bring your own grocery bags to the stores?? It's a very simple way to recycle.



I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh here, and I've withheld this comment for a couple of days because I don't want to come off as an asshole who is trying to burst anyone's bubble.

But if I'm shopping somewhere, and about to pay, and some retail clerk/cashier asked me how I got to and from the store, it would seriously piss me off!!! ...

[Sara S]

Well, I have finally begun to remember to bring the bags from the car to the store! And nearly always try to bag my own stuff, just because I want them in the order that makes sense for me. Since I live far from town, I always have the ice chest in the car for meat, dairy or frozen stuff;
if I'm too beat to bring in all the groceries the minute I get home, I want the veggies and other stuff for the fridge to be together.

And, if I'm feeling frisky, I tell the bagger that the question shouldn't be "paper or plastic?" but should be "kill a tree, or choke a seal?".

Sara




Great idea! Even better, bring your own bag and start loading them up.

At Costco and Oliver's I put my own bags and baskets in the cart and just load them up while shopping. Raw meat and eggs go in one bag, produce in another, etc. Then at checkout time, the loaded bags go on the conveyor belt. If the clerk has a mobile hand scanner, s/he can scan the items right in the bag. Otherwise, they tend to take an item out, scan/weigh it, and then put it back in. Checking and bagging are pretty much taken care of in one process.

Perhaps the question the checker should ask is "Do you want bags or did you bring your own?" If the store provides you with bags, then they should charge you 5 cents EACH instead of giving a 5 cent discount if you bring your own.

["Mad" Miles]

It seems like you're missing part of Portia's question: Do you ever bring your own grocery bags to the stores?? It's a very simple way to recycle.

Well Amalia, Since you ask and I've already laid out a good deal of my carbon footprint while relating where, when and how I drive, and since privacy is an archaic concept apparently, I'll detail my bag use.

I ask for paper. I use the bags to recycle and for garbage. I also don't buy a ton of groceries because I seldom cook at home. I guess that makes me culpable for the environmental practices of the restaurants I patronize.

I have a cloth bag in my car, which should I become replete with paper bags for the uses just stated, I will use. So far, in years of this practice, that hasn't happened.

At Community Market I don't use any bag, but I usually am only buying Columbia Gorge Organic OJ there (The best to be had locally, and yes, I know, it's not local. Plus I like checking in with my SR crunchy peeps once a week or so. I always go back to check out the bulletin board before leaving) or maybe one or two other items. And I want that washer to donate to one of three local non-profits. Lately it's been COTS.

I don't like plastic. There's too much of it being produced and discarded. I don't like that most of it doesn't biodegrade, is toxic when burned and there are continents of it floating around in the Pacific Ocean.

Two large ones and several small ones. I wanted to be a Marine Biologist between the ages of nine and twelve, until my inability to tan made me realize that a life snorkeling and scuba diving on tropical coral reefs was not going to work out for me. Such is life.

I recycle or trash my share of long chain polymers, since I get grab'n'go food regularly. I'm glad Pacific/Fiesta went to the intricately engineered thin cardboard boxes.

The trees that are cut down for paper grocery bags, and to-go containers, are on tree plantations grown specifically for paper production. Those forests would not exist without the packaging industry. That land would be used for something else. Cotton maybe? Tobacco? Hemp? Slurbs?

Paper biodegrades, although what goes in the landfill isn't exactly being composted. That should be changed.

Who remembers the container reuse ballot proposition from circa 1977-78? Boy, the container companies put the kabosh on that real quick! We were all going to die from diseases spread by reused containers!!!!

But the real issue was if there were a standard range of sizes for reusable food and beverage containers, made from thick sturdy glass or hard durable plastic (non-toxic please!) and they replaced discardable containers, that entire industry would go bye bye. But a new one would have arisen to collect, sort, clean and redistribute them. I thought it was a great idea. But it went down in flames with the voters of California.

Anybody want to now interrogate me about my domestic energy sources and use?

Happy Sunny Saturday Morning. I sure hope the prediction yesterday on this board of massive rain in February and March turns out to be true. Otherwise we're all well and truly cooked,

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[Barry]

At the moment, I'm with Miles. I get paper bags when I can't carry what I get without a bag, and then I re-use the bag. I suppose I could get a attractive recycling bucket for my kitchen (the next bit of plastic) and then wash it periodically (and use some water). I may get there...

In the meantime, I think the thing to do is for the stores to charge for either paper or plastic. Say 10 cents a bag. If they want to be nice, they could choose to donate all the proceeds from the bags.

This is similar to what is already happening which is that some stores give you a discount for bringing your own bags. But having it be a charge rather than a discount, and a bit more dear, would be a more powerful incentive for people to bring their own.

[alanora]

I like it when I am asked whether I need them "packed light".


At the moment, I'm with Miles. I get paper bags when I can't carry what I get without a bag, and then I re-use the bag. I suppose I could get a attractive recycling bucket for my kitchen (the next bit of plastic) and then wash it periodically (and use some water). I may get there...

In the meantime, I think the thing to do is for the stores to charge for either paper or plastic. Say 10 cents a bag. If they want to be nice, they could choose to donate all the proceeds from the bags.

This is similar to what is already happening which is that some stores give you a discount for bringing your own bags. But having it be a charge rather than a discount, and a bit more dear, would be a more powerful incentive for people to bring their own.

[MsTerry]

Anybody want to now interrogate me about my domestic energy sources and use?
"Mad" Miles

Yeah, do you use solar power and a composting toilet?

[MsTerry]

Has anybody else noticed that they don't ask you 'paper or plastic' at the farmer's market?
They just give you a plastic bag..............

[Sciguy]

Guys:
I am glad that Portia brought up this topic and that it attracted so much interest. But why stop short at just one step into the topic. Zero Waste says to redesign products and processes so that they don't lead to waste at all. What are some of the difficulties with this reusable bag process that don't work out while trying to fit flimsy plastic bags and low cost paper bags into a new reuse paradigm?

First of all, from a theoretical point of view, who decreed that every single product you buy has to have a package provided by the seller, either or both of the manufacturer with their horrible clamshells or the store with their bags? Why can't the assumption be that the products you buy will go into a package that the buyer supplies. I'm including jars and plastic bottles in this too, since you can bring your own container for bulk items and even transfer it into a labelled, permanent container when you reach home. If the store just simply didn't have bags to feed our addictions, we wouldn't be agonizing over how to remember to take our bags - we would forget once and then never again. Redesign processes! Certain wet or oily products could be specifially sold with plastic tubs but they would be substantial, not flimsy, and would be intended to be washed out after first use and then reused for other products in the future.

As for bags, who said that paper carries are the ultimate in design for reuse? It took fifty years of designing luggage before some bright designer realized how convenient, and life-changing, it would be if all luggage had its own wheels. Isn't the same true of heavy batches of groceries? Do we have to wait another fifty years before we have reusable grocery bags with built in wheels? How about dedicated insulated compartments for frozen or cold food? How about lots of zippers? And robust handles that will last fifty years? How about special designs so that the parts that wear out can be replaced or restored or repaired? Reusing today's paper bags means reusing it once or three times before the paper folds wear out or the handles pull off. Why can't we have solid cloth or heavy plastic (or carbon fiber - why not?) bags that we pass on to our children and grandchildren?

As for the flimsy plastic bags, who decreed those? I have some solid type polyethylene boxes ($5 for three boxes) that live in my shopping bag. When I go to a restaurant and want to take something home, I don't ask for a flimsy styrofoam box that will have to be discarded immediately because the pores in the plastic absorb food that can't be cleaned out again. I don't rely on the restaurant supplying lightweight cardboard. I whip out my own box and put the food into it. Then it may go into the fridge for a couple of days. Later on I wash it out and start over. If I get something to go, I hand the cashier a box. The chinese and mexican places don't blink. They are used to making do.

Even as for bags, one of the principles of Zero Waste is that once you design for multiple or perpetual reuse, you are no longer constrained to design for the cheapest possible function. You don't need to use bags that weigh a quarter of an ounce because you are going to use them hundreds of times. Having closures on all your bags sounds like a good idea. Maybe you want bags that simplify the washing function by having sides that also can be opened up so that the bag lies flat and can be easily washed off as a sheet, not a bag. There are all kinds of new designs, new ideas, that need to be explored in the new resource-poor, zero waste world that is coming.

Let's unleash our creative intelligence on these problems, rather than simply picking away in desultory fashion at the margins.

Paul Palmer

[Barrie]

Thanks for getting this discussion going. Awareness is always the first step. I take canvas bags into stores and sometimes feel like I have to fight with the baggers to get them to use them, or not put plastic bags inside of the cavass, which defeats the purpose. I like that Olivers and Community Market are so supportive of canvas use. When I lived at the condo complex I took other people's paper grocery bags out of the recycle bin to use for my garbage, etc. I really like the idea another person wrote saying that she loads her groceries into the bags as she shops then sets the filled bags onto the conveyer belt at the check stand. That will make it easier for the checker/bagger to rebag in canvass. When I lived in Finland they NEVER gave you bags, the customer was expected to provide their own. Most people always carried a little nylon bag in their purse or pocket for shopping. Barrie

[typewriter]

I have been nick-named "the take-out queen" from friends due to the amount of take-out (or "take away" as my east coast brethren say) I get and I'm appalled at how much waste it creates. Like many have suggested of the grocery store, I keep a bag full of washed out and reusable containers in the car (which I use at the grocery store too). Yes, I get some strange looks but at the places where I'm a "regular" the staff have replaced sideways glances with politely asking whether I've brought my own containers.

In California and most other places in the US "recycling" is second-nature (at least to a point) but "disposable society" has become such a sensation that even with recycling there's more waste than ever. So little is reused (not to mention fixed when broken) it is surprising, given it is one of the simplest and most effective solutions I personally know of! Millions of those "java jackets" must go in the trash/recycling a day when for less than the price of the coffee itself you can make or buy coffee knickers...or bring a thermos and save the waste of the cup altogether.

I do agree that low-impact consciousness absolutely must be tempered by common sense --when I was at university (this is an internationally ranked school mind you) our dining hall had Styrofoam cups; to protest a large group decided that each member would only use/re-use a single cup for the entire quarter. Because of this the amount of water and paper towels they used cumulatively to clean & "re-use" the cups far outweighed the negative effect of the cups...or the positive effect the group would have had if they all brought their own reusable cups.

Also, many of the mass-marketed "reusable" bags sold at grocery stores are worse for the environment and human rights than paper bags so getting back to the point, harm-reduction can happen in many ways/look like many things. Pluralism gets bulldozed in so many conversations about "green" alternatives/solutions and it becomes about polarity.

The bottom line is reduction where I'm concerned.

My suggestions are:

1. Start small --think of 1-5 things every year you want to implement & do them

2. Ask for help. There are so many folks who would love to talk to you about whatever changes you want to make --even if you don't know what they are.

I'm mystified why some folks are so upset by this concept. Throwing a tantrum just to throw it comes to mind. It's easy to get overwhelmed or turn-ed off by the "right" and "wrong" attitudes of some. I frequently observe this "you can't make me" attitude. It's one thing it legislate change --it's quite another to demonstrate personal integrity.

Here are some great HANDMADE bulk bin bags I love:

kootsac.etsy.com
https://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.55260155.jpg

[Sara S]

For those of us who don't have a trash pick-up service: I have for a long time saved the paper grocery bags that have handles on them, and used them to put all my recyclables into. When I've filled up the two garbage cans that I use for this purpose I take them to the Guerneville Dump, where I can empty them all into the "Mixed Recycling" dumpsters. This is free. I use them until they're too ruined for more use, and then they just go in, too.

[alanora]

I also use the paper bags for recyclables which then go in my neighbor's bin, as trash is not separated here..it all goes to the dump. The plastic ones I use for trash and therefore do not need to buy yet another plastic bag for that purpose. I do make sure they are hole free first, increasingly rare, as even compostables go in there. I generally use one or two a week for this purpose, the holey ones go into recycling. I have reusable bags purchased that live in the car as well. I am certain there are areas that could stand improvement in my custodianship. My own property will have compost pile. I wonder about the wisdom of placing animal feces in little plastic bags. Though I appreciate not stepping in the stuff, there must be a better way.


For those of us who don't have a trash pick-up service: I have for a long time saved the paper grocery bags that have handles on them, and used them to put all my recyclables into. When I've filled up the two garbage cans that I use for this purpose I take them to the Guerneville Dump, where I can empty them all into the "Mixed Recycling" dumpsters. This is free. I use them until they're too ruined for more use, and then they just go in, too.

[nicofrog]

"Did you know that we discard as much food as you eat in a week every single day?" is the question I would like to hear.
or how about, " would you like to talk with the manager about composting our foodwaste??"
Or "do you know of any charities you could hook us up with so we can give them the perfectly good food we are discarding today!"
I'm sorry, but all this talk of re-cycling and bag usage is 70's eco-thought.
This computer you are looking at has a thousand times the harm-full effect on resources, and toxic landfill than any plastic or paper bags ever will!!(oh by the way, do you have the latest up-grade yet? you will...kaching :2cents:)
I'm definitely down for farm local,make our own re usable kim chee jars
keep them with no refrigeration under ground learn to eat fava bean humus.
try to limit the need for millions of cardboard boxes.( mulch it's gonna be a dry summer) (plant)
Best way to re-cycle paper, bury it in a hole in your back yard
I compost all brown paper, bring me yours, I'll compost them to, and your "yard waste" as well ,the commercial composters mix in broad leaf herbacides, rendering their compost inferior at best, toxic at worst.
Re-cycling, bless its dear old heart, just Causes huge trucks to drive all over the place making still MORE smog. keep it local. If you want to make a big difference , Lobby to control the huge suppliers ,less packaging' less "shop on line" mail order junk and catalogs and billions of exess calenders
etc etc.
"Paper or plastic?" uhhhh mmmm I'll just take the shopping cart!, and fill it up out at the dumpster, thanks!
Thanks for the Lively discards!!
Nico