Rabbi Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza

[Zeno Swijtink]

Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza (https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1180527966693&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)
By MATTHEW WAGNER
https://static.jpost.com/images/2004/site/jplogo.230.gif

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.

The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.

Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu's son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life.

"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

Eliyahu wrote that "This is a message to all leaders of the Jewish people not to be compassionate with those who shoot [rockets] at civilians in their houses."

[toddwquigley]

https://www.onenewsnow.com/uploadedImages/Media/Images/hamas_supporter.jpgA former Palestinian terrorist says the West continues to pursue a failed idea that somehow terrorism against Israel will stop when the Palestinians get their own homeland.</STORYLEAD>

<STORYBODY>Walid Shoebat is a former member of the Palestine Liberation Organization and a convert to Christianity. He now runs the Walid Shoebat Foundation (https://www.shoebat.com/), which is an organization that cries out for the justice of Israel and the Jewish people. Shoebat, author of the recently published God's War on Terror: Islam, Prophecy and the Bible, believes the recent terrorist rocket attacks by Hamas have nothing to do with wanting a Palestinian homeland.

"The core issue is not an issue of land whatsoever. It's an issue of wiping the state of Israel out. If you look at even suicide bombing -- historically, if you look from 1980 until 2003, let's say -- 224 suicide bombings out of 300 existed in Islamic countries with no occupation whatsoever," he notes. "So it's not simply the desire to create a Palestinian state. It is the desire to destroy the Jewish state, and that's what we see."

https://www.onenewsnow.com/uploadedImages/Media/Images/20070117WalidShoebat.jpgShoebat contends this effort is being carried out by a huge network of Islamic enemies. "It's a rebel network involved between Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran, Syria. Many Islamic countries are involved in this," he points out. "Saudi Arabia was funding...this kind of thing. So it's a huge network that we're dealing with."

[MsTerry]

I guess the rabbi also feels that all Jews are collective guilty, and therefore are justified to fire those rockets.


Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza (https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1180527966693&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)
By MATTHEW WAGNER
https://static.jpost.com/images/2004/site/jplogo.230.gif

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.

The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.

Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu's son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life.

"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

Eliyahu wrote that "This is a message to all leaders of the Jewish people not to be compassionate with those who shoot [rockets] at civilians in their houses."

[d-cat]

It all makes good sense doesn't it? Take away the Palestinian's land and wealth and give it to the European Jews, because the Germans treated them so badly. And if the Palestinians complain, bomb the hell out of them.

[toddwquigley]

It all makes good sense doesn't it? Take away the Palestinian's land and wealth and give it to the European Jews, because the Germans treated them so badly. And if the Palestinians complain, bomb the hell out of them.

Hmmm, I'm not sure if that is: "It's your turn in the barrel", or "Sh*t flows downhill". Either way, it's not a prime piece of real estate.

It's obvious that the Israelis are never going to really accomodate them unless they convert to Judiaism (LOL!), so why don't their Islamic cousins accomodate them. Could it be that they have managed to piss everyone off, and no longer have any friends?

Maybe one day the Palestinians will collectively wake up, and realize they have been dis-owned by their Muslim brothers and are seen as only being fit to be used as the stick with which to poke the hornet's nest that is an enraged Israel, and that the World doesn't really care all that much what happens to them.

Given this reality, they might want to try treating their neighbors like friends instead of enemies.

You catch more flies with honey...

[Hot Compost]

Maybe one day the Palestinians will collectively wake up, and realize they have been dis-owned by their Muslim brothers and are seen as only being fit to be used as the stick with which to poke the hornet's nest that is an enraged Israel, and that the World doesn't really care all that much what happens to them.

we're talking about 1 1/2 million Palestinians on a small piece of land, ghetto conditions.

women, children, and families for the most part. they haven't been dis-owned.

as far as i can tell, when the Israeli's talk about "dealing with the Palestinian Problem", they are talking about population reduction. as in killing civilians - lots of civilians.

[toddwquigley]

we're talking about 1 1/2 million Palestinians on a small piece of land, ghetto conditions.

women, children, and families for the most part. they haven't been dis-owned.

Considering that the Palestinians have been kicked out of Lenannon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, and the only thing their Muslin cousins have given them is weapons with which to poke the hornet's nest of Israel ("Here you go poke it, I'll stand over here, eat my lunch, and watch, this should be good entertainment"), your statement does not appear to be factual.

The Palestinians are by definition, a loose conglomeration of stateless people that have wandered the Levant for several hundred years, btiing the hand that feeds them wherever they go. They are of a very mixed genetic lmakeup, and any claims of direct lineage to the ancient Caananites is sheer fantasy. In fact, a goodly sized portion of them are of Jewish ancestory, leftovers from the Diasapora, and later "Arabized"

as far as i can tell, when the Israeli's talk about "dealing with the Palestinian Problem", they are talking about population reduction. as in killing civilians - lots of civilians.

Hmmm, well I guess that Israel should just stand by and let the Palestinians kill their civilians, this appears to be the answer that all of you anti-Semites would prefer.

Why is it that for over 4,000 years, people have been so against the Jews? Why is it that you personally have such an issue with the Jews, that you would put all the blame on them, instead of where it belongs? I'll bet that if someone killed one of your loved family members, and then went and hid withing their family, you would rightly want the whole family arrested for obstruction of justice, collaberation, and aiding and abetting.



All the Jews want is to live unmolested in their ancient homeland. The Jews have every right to Judea and Israel, these lands were ceeded to them by the Babalonian empire 3,500 years ago. You would have to go back to Abraham, over 4,000 years ago to find when the Jews did not have a valid claim to these lands, when they took them from the Caananites, whom they then happily assimulated.

The Palestinian claim is a small dot on the history line, as they did not exist as "Palestinians" until 1948. They were, and are stateless people living on other people's lands, and they have been the most ungrateful tenents the World has ever seen. Maybe this is why World opinion has turned against them, and even other Arabs will not help them

This can be all likened to coming back after an absence to a property that you own and finding homeless people on it. You nicely ask them to leave, and when they don't you accomodate them in their own area, whereupon they start throwing rocks at you, and pissing on your doorstep. Some of them beat up your children, and when you confront them to bring forth the perpetrators, they hide them and refuse. They burn your car, and try to set your house on fire, and still they will not give up the perpetrators, and in fact, they support them. Your neighbors, whom don't like you or the homeless people, give them weapons to use against you, and whenever they attack you, your neighbors say it's your fault for simply existing, and wanting to live on your property.

The Palestinians are not the poor innocent victim, they are the one whom is victimizing. They are carrying out a terrorist war: Hamas attacks Israeli civilians, and then the Palestinian men (the majority of which support Hamas) hide Hamas within their civilian population, making them guilty by association, and guilty of aiding and abetting.

Here's a message to all the whining Liberals on Wacco

I'm not Jewish, but I can't understand why so many of the so called "Concious Community" IE: West County Liberals, are so anti-Semite. It seems that you have thrown all logic out the door, in the quest to find fault with the friends of your country that you apparently dislike so much. Just because America is not the liberal Mecca that you wish it to be, doesn't mean it's not a good country, and just because Israel is friends with America, doesn't mean it is automatically in the wrong.

Stop with the emotions, and start using some logic, and you will be much happier with the World that you live in. Living in reality, where 2+2 equals 4, is so much easier than wishing it equalled 5, and being so unhappy that it doesn't. I've never seen such a glum lot as West County Liberals, you are even more unhappy than the people of the far Right.

The World, and specifically America isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Be grateful that you live in such a wonderful country, where you can openly speak your mind, you are not being shot at, no one has to go without food and a roof over their heads, and the vast majority have lots of needless luxuriex that are unimagineable by the majority of the World's population. The rest is just icing on the cake, so why worry so much that it isn't exactly the way you like it will change in time, but people don't listen much to whiners.

Start taking responsiblity for your own happiness, start being grateful for what you do have, and stop whining so much.

[MsTerry]

Todd, according to your own reasoning Palestinians are Arabic offspring from Jews. Can you explain to me what an anti-semite is?
Oh BTW, me and my tribe are planning to take back 'your' vineyard since my ancestors have lived on these hills thousands of years. Please make appropriate arrangements. I hate to see you get hurt.

blahblah

[toddwquigley]

So exactly where were the Jews supposed to go? The big difference between the Jews and the Palestinians is that the Jews have a claim on the land having lived there for 2000 years, and they bought it back piece by piece after it was taken away from them by the Romans, while the Palestinians are squatters that have made themselves personna non-grata throughout the Levant. They have no claim on the land, and they never bought but a very small fraction of it.

In other words, the Jews have legal title to it, and the Palestinians don't.

Now if you are living on somebody else's property, and they come back and evict you, who's fault is that? The Jews have made more accomodations for the Palestinians than all their Arab cousins combined.

Once again we come back to the fact that they are stateless people for a reason, and the reason, is the poor way they treat their benefactors.

This is a many faceted issue: The other Arab nations that hate Israel but are afraid to attack her, fund and weaponize the Palestinians knowing that their hate will cause them to fight a terrorist war. The Arabs want to see the Jews exterminated, while the Jews just want to live in peace, there's a big difference between the two.

As far as anti-semite, it refers to not liking the Hebrews, you can be of Jewish blood (or in this case ancestory) and still be anti-semite.

However, I was referring to the many Waccos who always automatically blame the Jews, even when it is clearly not their fault. You can play games of semantics all day long, but in the end, they are just games. It comes down to who fired the first shot, not why. However as to both the who and the why, the Palestinians are to blame.

I find it strange that there seems to be more support for the Palestinians here in Sebastopol than by their Muslim cousins that actually live in the Levant and know the situation first hand.

The Palestinians are not the poor innocent victims as many Wacco's want to believe, and the proof is the attitude of their own Islamic/Arab cousins.

Unlike the Waccos who sit comfortably in their house in Sebastopol, 9,000 miles away, forming their opinions based on NPR and other Liberal sources, the Arabs have lived with them, and have first hand experience with them.

Please explain how it is the Jews fault, even the Arabs that live in the Levant, have experienced it all first hand, and hate Israel dissagree with you. They place the blame on the Palestinians, and because of this they have not welcomed them into their lands.

It is only those few in far away places such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Sebastopol that think it is the Jews fault, the rest of the World doesn't think so. This is more of an emotional hate of Israel because they are friends with America than any logical reason. How else do you justify firing rockets specifically and solely against civilian targets?

Really: The other 95% of the World and I are quite curious as to your logic of how it is the Israelis fault, when the Palestinians fired the first shots, and as the Israelis aim strictly for military targets (and there is of course collateral damage), the Palestinians aim strictly at civilian targets.

The Israelis are fighting a defensive war against a terrorist offensive, yet still the Waccos blame the Jews.

Obviously the name Wacco is appropriate: What a bunch of deluded anti-Semites, the lack of logic is simply astounding...

[MsTerry]

just for you Todd, so you can educate yourself.

The United Nations, the European Union, and the International Court of Justice have declared the Israeli settlements illegal, a violation of the Geneva Convention that prohibits occupying powers from allowing its citizens to populate the territory it occupies. The Israeli government, though, provides easy loans to those seeking houses in West Bank settlements. One of the largest in the Bethlehem area is called Har Homa. Its gleaming high-rises stand so close to Bethlehem—just across the wall—that it seems as if you could hold your arm out on a Palestinian street corner and hail a cab in Har Homa. It has become a full-fledged suburb, with 2,000 Israelis. About half of all settlers consider themselves nonreligious, and real estate ads in Har Homa, plastered on numerous billboards, stress the town's secular advantages. Reasonable prices; great location; such an easy commute to Jerusalem! Har Homa exemplifies an Israeli strategy known as "facts on the ground": The more Jews who live in a concentrated area on the east side of the so-called Green Line—the armistice line established in 1949 following Israel's war of independence—the more likely the area will become part of Israel if the region is divided into two countries. Palestinians still refer to Har Homa by its original name, Jabal Abu Ghuneim—in Arabic, "mountain of the shepherd." It used to be one of the last open spaces in Bethlehem, a pine-shaded hillside where shepherds tended their flocks, and had done so since biblical times. Construction began in 1997; the land was shaved flat and stacked with apartment towers. Not one Palestinian who owned acreage was compensated. Its new name means "walled mountain" in Hebrew.

So now you can stop reinventing history.
Have you taken all your belongings from our land?
We are going to evict you Squatters!


So exactly where were the Jews supposed to go? The big difference between the Jews and the Palestinians is that the Jews have a claim on the land having lived there for 2000 years, and they bought it back piece by piece after it was taken away from them by the Romans, while the Palestinians are squatters that have made themselves personna non-grata throughout the Levant. They have no claim on the land, and they never bought but a very small fraction of it.

In other words, the Jews have legal title to it, and the Palestinians don't.