My son and I drive by every day , on the way to school , by a couple cemeteries. We actually make up "dead " jokes and laugh, but one morning he asked me why they were there and why there were so many fake flowers and " What is up with this ? " . Well it was kind of strange for me to come up with an answer , because I do not personally believe in graveyards. So we discussed this and still are discussing it and would love to have anyones input. Thanks :fairy:
mykil
12-03-2008, 11:50 PM
I used to live in one... I know more about cemeteries than anyone you well ever meet...
Photoguy
12-04-2008, 10:17 AM
My wife's grandfather, who recently passed over at age 94, used to visit the grave sites of his deceased friends and family on a regular basis. He would keep a supply of plastic flowers in the trunk of his car to "freshen up" any of the graves that needed it. He would use this as a way of both honoring the memories of those people and of actually socializing with them. When I first met him 13 years ago he had been doing it for quite a few years already. I thought it was a bit odd, but nice.
I have not visited a grave of someone I know in well over 30 years, since my parents last took me on memorial day. When driving up to Chico for Thanksgiving I was drawn to go visit Grandpa Bob's grave, why, to honor his memory and visit with him. I don't necessarily believe his spirit is hovering around the cemetery, it just helps me focus on his memory.
My parents have both passed over, they were both cremated and are here in my house. It sounds creepy, but we see it as good spirits/memories here with us. When we can afford to do so we will go back to Boston, where I and they are from, and inter the remains in our family plot. Why? Because I think they would have wanted it that way.
There are also the simple health reasons for putting a body 6 feet under. You don't want a bunch of corpses scattered around the country side to later be plowed up by farmers, so 1 central place to bury the dead makes sense.
I have always loved graveyards for their tranquility and beauty. I also love the history they contain. By reading old headstones I can feel the past and part of the story of these people. A graveyard can help contain and carry forward the history and stories of its community.
Great Question! :heart:
alanora
12-04-2008, 12:48 PM
They are very quiet places in general. Lots of history and art to be found on old stones. We used to do grave rubbings with paper and charcoal......I had a landlord in monte rio that had no bodies, but graves over part of his property, which caused the cops to come check it out......Mindy
My son and I drive by every day , on the way to school , by a couple cemeteries. We actually make up "dead " jokes and laugh, but one morning he asked me why they were there and why there were so many fake flowers and " What is up with this ? " . Well it was kind of strange for me to come up with an answer , because I do not personally believe in graveyards. So we discussed this and still are discussing it and would love to have anyones input. Thanks :fairy:
theindependenteye
12-04-2008, 01:11 PM
Cemeteries? I love them. I'm not a fan of the plastic flowers, but that's nobody's business, it's up to the family.
Even if there was embalming and a totally-sealed coffin, at least the gesture has been made, returning to the earth from which we all have come. And there is a place to go, to remember and be close.
So I feel the presence of the Big Family in a cemetery, and to me that is sweet, not creepy. Our culture has begun to reclaim birthing from the realm of the dangerous, icky, and controlled. Some day we will reclaim this other gate, too.
Elizabeth Fuller
shellebelle
12-04-2008, 01:20 PM
I love them.
They are spiritual.
I have found very few temples/churches with the deep emotional spirit of a cemetery.
They are marvelous. Cultured and yet wild. And the views can be amazing!
Sylph
12-04-2008, 02:01 PM
Although I plan to be cremated and most of my friends and family are inclined that way too, I am fascinated by graveyards.
I've been into genealogy and I've scrambled all over fields and woods in Tennessee and Kentucky looking for relatives, risking chigger bites and gun-happy rednecks. Some graveyards were so old that the stones are gone or unreadable and some were being reclaimed by the earth. I have some beautiful pictures of gravestones and their surroundings. Thanks, Shelley for the shots of the Druid's Cemetery. My granddad is up there and I do drop by and commune with him and pull a few weeds from time to time. It's very emotional for me, as we were very close. My husband's mom and dad are in a beautiful graveyard in South Carolina. Only flat-to-the-ground plaques are allowed and it's much nicer, esthetically. Just smooth grass and trees. It is interesting how different the burial practices are in other parts of the world. In Polynesia, the raised tombs are right out side the front windows, taking up the whole tiny front yard. They keep their family close. That's how it was in Tennessee, too, way back. Many old homesteads have a little family plot. Columbariums (sp?) are nice, where the urns of ashes are stored and there is a record for posterity where descendants can visit.
mykil
12-04-2008, 02:10 PM
As A teen I used to live in the cemetery in Guerneville and would spend pretty much all my dayz and eves among the dead! I have buried people I new loved and even grew up with all in a period on a few years. Twas an awaking for say the least. When I spent time there I would visit my far off relatives and was able to connect in a spiritual level that was beyond any other. Having conversations with the dead was and is quit controversial to say the least, yet is seems normal in a cemetery.
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Most of the cemeteries these dayz do not allow plastic flowers anymore and for good reason. They truly are a menus to the cemeteries when they get old and degraded. Thus the only true way to pay your respects is to bring real flowers and let them dry on the grave and become one with the body spirit and soul. I am really surprised that <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Sebastopol</st1:place> still allows plastic!!!!!
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I have way too many stories about cemeteries and I should not even share most of them without signing some sort of waver or getting a government pardon on soooo NO!
<o:p></o:p>
wunda
12-04-2008, 05:17 PM
A few years ago, I started a tradition of taking my kids to the cemetary on Memorial day. Below is an exerpt from the blog I wrote after the first time we went. The child I am referring to here is diagnosed with high-functioning autism. His play habits and curiosities are sometimes atypical from other kids his age.
"...Later that day, he was talking about one of his superheroes dying in a story he made up. He was using his action figures to demonstrate how they died and then he threw the "dead body" across the room. This started a conversation between my parents and him about what happens to people's bodies when they die. (strange topic for sure) Josh asked me to take him to a cemetary, so we took him and the other kids, who also decided they were interested.
We went on Memorial day, and paid special attention to the graves of soldiers, and compared them to his super heros. It turned out to be a special time, though sad. I never really did much to celebrate memorial day before this and the experience was quite moving. I think it may become a yearly tradition for us to honor real heros on Memorial day."
And it has been so.
metimeesthetics
12-04-2008, 08:49 PM
Love them!
my best friend and I have been going to cemetaries since we were in high school. It might come from my last name, which is "graves", who knows. In larger cities, it is one of the few places where you can find grass and trees, and peace. I find them incredibly serene.
A dear friend died tragically, and young, and was buried in a beautiful cemetary in Oakland. His marker was near the edge of the "old section", which dated back to the early 1800's. For me, it is a way of seeing the passage of time. This country doesn't respect the old, and it is often torn down or paved over. The cemetaries are one of the few things that last have been here for 200 years.
I have participated in a few cemetary clean-ups and repairs. It was unexpectedly rewarding work.
Kelli
alanora
12-05-2008, 08:47 AM
Does any one remember why the jewish custom of leaving stones on graves arose? What does it mean? kabbalistic maybe.......
As A teen I used to live in the cemetery in Guerneville and would spend pretty much all my dayz and eves among the dead! I have buried people I new loved and even grew up with all in a period on a few years. Twas an awaking for say the least. When I spent time there I would visit my far off relatives and was able to connect in a spiritual level that was beyond any other. Having conversations with the dead was and is quit controversial to say the least, yet is seems normal in a cemetery.
<o:p></o:p>
Most of the cemeteries these dayz do not allow plastic flowers anymore and for good reason. They truly are a menus to the cemeteries when they get old and degraded. Thus the only true way to pay your respects is to bring real flowers and let them dry on the grave and become one with the body spirit and soul. I am really surprised that <st1:place w:st="on">Sebastopol</st1:place> still allows plastic!!!!!
<o:p></o:p>
I have way too many stories about cemeteries and I should not even share most of them without signing some sort of waver or getting a government pardon on soooo NO!
<o:p></o:p>
MsTerry
12-05-2008, 10:01 AM
My favourite cemetery is in Bodega, on the hill overlooking the H'way
lifequest
12-05-2008, 11:26 AM
Does any one remember why the jewish custom of leaving stones on graves arose? What does it mean? kabbalistic maybe.......
I think it's based on providing a permanent form of remembrance for the deceased - instead of flowers that die and decay over time. Might have to look it up though.
lifequest
12-05-2008, 11:34 AM
Does any one remember why the jewish custom of leaving stones on graves arose? What does it mean? kabbalistic maybe.......
This is a better explanation - from a Jewish traditions website:
When the tradition started, grave monuments were mounds of stones. Visitors added stones to "the mound" to show we are never finished building the monument to the deceased.
NudeTea
12-05-2008, 06:33 PM
Graveyards are associated with churches and are these days almost extinct so yeah, so when you say you don't believe in them, yeah they are disappearing. However, cemeteries are operated by municipalities and are quite prominent everywhere. Cemeteries are hard not to believe in when you can see them so easily from the roadside, such as the one Ms Terry enjoys in Bodega, which is a favorite of mine too and it's very real.
My son and I drive by every day , on the way to school , by a couple cemeteries. We actually make up "dead " jokes and laugh, but one morning he asked me why they were there and why there were so many fake flowers and " What is up with this ? " . Well it was kind of strange for me to come up with an answer , because I do not personally believe in graveyards. So we discussed this and still are discussing it and would love to have anyones input. Thanks :fairy:
lawooda12
12-05-2008, 09:33 PM
Hi there! I also used to spend alot of time at one here in Napa and from dealing with family after family who lost loved ones it is a final destination in the physical sense that they can come and visit, talk to their loved one, leave important sentimental gifts, buy flowers and they are plastic mainly because the family doesn't want dead flowers when they come back to visit. Most cemeteries are requiring real flowers for the maintenance reasons wires getting caught in the mowers etc.... I found the cemetery to be a very peaceful place and one of the most rewarding positions I have ever had.
David Field
12-12-2008, 07:13 PM
Hi,
It is wonderful that you and your child can look at this area of life. Caring for ones dead is an issue that still is not discussed much, especially between different generations. There are many consumer issues that the powerful funeral industry has kept hidden and a lot people have done to bring this to light. There is a lot of good consumer information on this topic at the non-profit Redwood Funeral Society's website, www.funeral.org .
Yours,
David Field
My son and I drive by every day , on the way to school , by a couple cemeteries. We actually make up "dead " jokes and laugh, but one morning he asked me why they were there and why there were so many fake flowers and " What is up with this ? " . Well it was kind of strange for me to come up with an answer , because I do not personally believe in graveyards. So we discussed this and still are discussing it and would love to have anyones input. Thanks :fairy:
patzy
12-13-2008, 08:42 PM
I'm all for seeing cemeteries go the way of the Dinosaur but I will not mock the ones in existence. As for the fake flowers, many cannot afford to keep fresh flowers on the graves and I am sure it does some folks hearts good to see some brightness on a loved ones grave. You might tell your son people bury their dead and mark their graves to honor them and for some it is a place to go and pray and 'visit' their very much missed loved one.
Perhaps as time goes by and land gets scarcer and our attitude towards death changes in that cremation is seen as a better alternative, then we can let go of the land consuming practice of burying our dead. But then if we were really wise and went back to practicing Zero population growth, the existence of cemetaries wouldn't be of much concern.
MsTerry
12-14-2008, 07:19 AM
As has been discussed before, cremation is not a very healthy alternative as opposed to burial.
But I am curious as to where you got the notion that anybody (besides the Chinese) is practicing Zero Population Growth?
Perhaps as time goes by and land gets scarcer and our attitude towards death changes in that cremation is seen as a better alternative, then we can let go of the land consuming practice of burying our dead. But then if we were really wise and went back to practicing Zero population growth, the existence of cemetaries wouldn't be of much concern.
alanora
12-14-2008, 08:43 AM
In my attempt to look up past discussions on cremation vs. burial, I came across an ad for making your loved one's remaining carbon into a diamond! Does that alter the risk/benefit ratio at all?
As has been discussed before, cremation is not a very healthy alternative as opposed to burial.
But I am curious as to where you got the notion that anybody (besides the Chinese) is practicing Zero Population Growth?
Hot Compost
12-14-2008, 01:39 PM
i think the practices of embalming dead bodies, or cremating them, will see some re-thinking in the years to come.
i like the idea of being buried in the ground au naturel, well maybe with a biodegrade-able cotton shroud so as not to gross everybody out. in a hole about 6 feet deep, and then having a redwood tree planted on top when the hole is filled in.
cremation uses a bunch of natural gas, and creates a lot of CO2. if it came down to a choice between heating our homes or bath-water, and cremating a deceased relative or friend, what would we choose ?
but, as far as cemeteries per se, i don't have many thoughts. they do seem a little orderly, almost too orderly, a rectilinear arrangement of tombstones.
patzy
12-14-2008, 03:28 PM
Well yes I believe if more folks understood what the body of their loved one undergoes during embalming I think they would move away from it rather quickly (aside from the fact of all the chemicals used, I mean the dead one is now a container for caustic chemicals that are short-lived in their attempt to slow down decay) Crematoriums are pretty well controlled as far as emissions, but yes it takes a lot to burn a body and even then, the bones have to be crushed, thus why you see bone bits among the ashes) 80% of us goes up the chimney as water vapor.
Again tho even if we were to be buried, with the human population as large as it is, even burying us under trees or with viable walnuts in our mouths would make for a pretty putrid countryside. Cut human population drastically and then we can talk about 'natural burial' I'm all for feeding those that died a 'healthy' death to wildlife. Being compost or a meal is the most benign way to go.
Cemeteries have to be rather orderly to make keeping them tended manageable...and I doubt the dead care if they are arranged in rectangles or not! :wink:
Personally tho cremation appeals to me maybe because I've been told to go to Hell so many times.....Big Smile
patzy
12-14-2008, 03:47 PM
In my attempt to look up past discussions on cremation vs. burial, I came across an ad for making your loved one's remaining carbon into a diamond! Does that alter the risk/benefit ratio at all?
The same resources would have to be used to cremate the remains...
There is also a groupEternal Reefs, that accepts cremated remains and they are placed in the cement that are made into reef balls that are dropped offshore to assist in creating coral reefs, so one can be part of a conservation effort after death. (pricey tho even after donating your ashes! always a buck to be made)
We can't escape the fact that getting rid of human remains in this day and age is a huge undertaking (pun not intended)and the more enviromentally friendly method to date is cremation, unless you bury your dead in the dead (is that where that phrase came from?) of night without prior permission. And all heck will break loose if the neighbors dog digs you up.
MsTerry
12-14-2008, 04:07 PM
That is quite a find!
But actually, it would only encourage crime, so I would have to say no to people who want to swap caskets for karats.
In my attempt to look up past discussions on cremation vs. burial, I came across an ad for making your loved one's remaining carbon into a diamond! Does that alter the risk/benefit ratio at all?
patzy
12-14-2008, 10:50 PM
As has been discussed before, cremation is not a very healthy alternative as opposed to burial.
But I am curious as to where you got the notion that anybody (besides the Chinese) is practicing Zero Population Growth?
Oh please, oh mighty MsTerry forgive my HUGE faux pas (which you were quick to point out as per your normal modus operandi). Obviously since it had been mentioned before, I meant a return to the time in this country when it was being addressed, but sadly seems to have been tossed to the wind as one, most wise method of addressing overpopulation and thussssss leaving us with limited options of disposing of our dead.
So you dispose of your dead via burial? How do you see that as a viable alternative to cremation? One would think, pumping cadavers full of chemicals, putting them in boxes and then as required by law sealing them in cement vaults or as of late, non-biodegradable, water and chemical resistant polymers and dropping them into mother earth runs a very non viable second.
Dynamique
12-14-2008, 11:43 PM
In many places and cultures, cremation is done with a wood-fired funeral pyre -- no fossil fuel involved. While some greenhouse gasses are produced, it is part of the carbon cycle and does not introduce fossil carbon. It's not always a "clean burn" but it does the trick and is a whole lot better than embalming and a big metal casket! Maybe we should (re)turn to the wood-based pyre lit by the next of kin.
cremation uses a bunch of natural gas, and creates a lot of CO2. if it came down to a choice between heating our homes or bath-water, and cremating a deceased relative or friend, what would we choose ?
MsTerry
12-15-2008, 09:34 AM
I don't know what kind of Quixoticelixir you've been taken, but I have no clue what your statement means or refers to. :hmmm:
Obviously since it had been mentioned before, I meant a return to the time in this country when it was being addressed, but sadly seems to have been tossed to the wind as one, most wise method of addressing overpopulation and thussssss leaving us with limited options of disposing of our dead.
This is an interesting procedure you are describing, can you give us a link with the data?
So you dispose of your dead via burial? How do you see that as a viable alternative to cremation? One would think, pumping cadavers full of chemicals, putting them in boxes and then as required by law sealing them in cement vaults or as of late, non-biodegradable, water and chemical resistant polymers and dropping them into mother earth runs a very non viable second.
RichT
12-15-2008, 12:12 PM
I'm all for feeding those that died a 'healthy' death to wildlife. Being compost or a meal is the most benign way to go.
Personally tho cremation appeals to me maybe because I've been told to go to Hell so many times.....Big Smile
I think zoos (or Safari West) might appreciate a way to supplement their animals feed. What great idea. It could also be used to feed the homeless.
My grandmother always told me I would burn in Hell. That must be why I favor cremation.
scorpiomoon
12-29-2008, 01:24 PM
My favorite cemetery is in my home town. Daniel Boone is buried there. There are one or two mausoleums, a confederate burial place and a union burial place. UNKNOWN some of the stones read, or "shot in the head at Morgan's Field" Some stones so worn you can't see the names or the years are barely legible. I spent many hours there especially during the fall. Always liked to go up there when the leaves were turning and falling, and rustling, my favorite sound. Many old trees, and at least four no five generations of my folks. I carry them with me in my DNA of course, but going to the cemetery is always a very spiritual thing.
I like reading poetry etched in stone.
The stones tell a story of all these lives. Old cemeteries tell things like when the child flu swept through town. How many soldiers died in the War of 1812 , things like that.
One winter thirty children all died, very young. Infants-- Cherubs carved on the stones, with birthdates too close to when they died. Most were buried together in a circular spot, close to an ancient oak, & their sad parents are still watchful, still standing right there with their children. I liked to read there, it's a short walk from my mother, grandmother, and great great uncles who fought in the civil war. Maybe I like being a little haunted, touched by the past. I like the ebb and flow of living and the conclusion. The PC thing I know, cremation is the way, but the beauty in THAT of course, is that you can have a little particle of you placed everywhere you want, if you want. A little piece here, with momma, a little bit over closer to the river by Daniel Boone just for kicks. I hear my family has only one spot left. Wonder who will be the lucky one?
bakerchic
01-01-2009, 11:31 PM
I love cemeteries. They are a link to the past and a reminder of our mortality. I visited our "family cemetery" during a visit to Louisiana for a family reunion. I saw the names and pictures of four generations worth of family members, and wondered if I would be lying next to one of them in the next 50 years. The southern religious culture is still very rooted to ancestry and such, which wasn't such a bad thing. I was welcomed just because I was my father's daughter. Along with that comes this connection to those who are no longer here, including their teachings and stories and ethics. Even being a very left-leaning Californian, I could appreciate the very centering effect of that thinking. You at least have a base from which to start and can then grow from there. Naturally, it is a problem if you don't grow from there, but simply stay stuck in the past, but that's another story. I love cemeteries. They are a place where some people go to complete the cycle of life.