Did Efren not pay his property taxes either?

[Zeno Swijtink]

Some late breaking news. - Zeno

******

Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:44:45 -0800
From: Sonia Taylor <[email protected]>
To: Zeno Swijtink <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Efren didn't pay his property taxes

Zeno, send this to hell and gone, if you like, under my name.

Sonia

Full disclosure -- I support Rue, and worked for her as a hired gun as a graphic designer during her campaign. I was never part of the campaign, and am officially (thankfully) unemployed right now.

This morning I decided to see if Efren owns property in Sonoma County and if he is current on his property taxes. To the best of my ability to discern, he does own a house at 2158 Waltzer Road in Santa Rosa (it strains probability that there is another single Efren Carrillo who would have notices sent to his parent's address). I also confirmed that he owes property taxes on that property for a supplemental assessment (when he bought the property on May 23, 2007, they reassessed it -- he paid the property taxes for the original value). HE HAS NOT PAID PROPERTY TAXES DUE for that supplemental assessment due on 3/31/08 and 7/31/08. They are unpaid as of this morning.

While the amount is not large ($2000 +/-), I take GRAVE exception to his (and the PD's) making Rue's nonpayment of taxes a moral issue, and, further to Efren LYING in his yellow file folder "furchfacts" mailer -- put out by his own campaign -- in which he said that he "always paid [his taxes] on time and in full." Unless I'm missing something, that's simply not true.
I have copies of all the documents, and if someone wants to post them somewhere, on line, let me know.

STUNNING. Can't believe NO ONE looked this up before now.

Sonia

[Kinetic]

Is it possible that I did look it up, but thought better of leaking the story. Is it possible that Rue knew about this, but was so embarrassed that she didn't want to subject anyone else to that kind of spotlight?
The fact is that she made a mistake. She has made others I'm sure. I don't doubt that Efren has made mistakes. We learn from our mistakes. That's life.
I'm just wondering how much Efren has learned from his mistakes over the short time that he has been on this planet. He hasn't had to live with his decisions like Rue has. What I think is laughable is that Rue has not been attacked on her opinions or decisions to date.
She should be elected to serve the county best.

[Alysson Wonderland]

I'm assuming that the silence we're hearing from Wacco readers at large is stunned disbelief. How ironic. As Lily Tomlin once said "no matter how cynical you get, you can't keep up."
I'm waiting for the explanation from the Carrillo camp.

[Sybil de Ville]

That roaring silence may be intelligent people waiting to jump on this rickety bandwagon until they know the whole truth. Folks, go to the Sonoma County Tax Collector page, property taxes and search under Efren Carrillo. There are four property tax records there for all to see, and not one of them shows an outstanding bill. Check it out. Shame on you who spread such tales without checking them yourselves. Shame on West County for this uncivil approach to local governance. Thank heaven it will all be over tomorrow, one way or the other. May the best ones win.

[wildflower]

To me this ISSUE of whether the candidates paid their property taxes is a NON-ISSUE!
I feel that property taxes are a legal RIP OFF. They are too high and they are the open purse to save every failing system and public institution in Sonoma County. Much over-used!

What's so virtuous about paying property taxes? I imagine that all of us could easily get into the situation where we could fall behind that way as they are so high.

I don't see it as the BIG SIN that it is portrayed as, or unethical in any way. Other things like real ethics, honesty, integrity, experience are much more important to me.

Best
wildflower


That roaring silence may be intelligent people waiting to jump on this rickety bandwagon until they know the whole truth. Folks, go to the Sonoma County Tax Collector page, property taxes and search under Efren Carrillo. There are four property tax records there for all to see, and not one of them shows an outstanding bill. Check it out. Shame on you who spread such tales without checking them yourselves. Shame on West County for this uncivil approach to local governance. Thank heaven it will all be over tomorrow, one way or the other. May the best ones win.

[Sybil de Ville]

:hmmm:

[RichT]

I feel that property taxes are a legal RIP OFF. They are too high and they are the open purse to save every failing system and public institution in Sonoma County. Much over-used!

What's so virtuous about paying property taxes?


So let me get this straight. You place absolutely no value on having a solid infrastructure in place. You don't care about roads to connect you to other locales! You don't care about schools and education! You don't value police and fire services!

Get real. We depend on basic structures to keep our society functioning. It does not magically appear out of thin air. Taxes are the most fundamental responsibility of being a citizen.

[Sybil de Ville]

Thank you, Rich; it is so obvious I couldn't bring myself to explain. Also, property taxes are a basic foundation of local government general funds which pay for, among other things, the salaries (as in Board of Supervisors) or stipends (as in City Councils) paid to the elected officials who run them.

[riverosprey]

Dear Zeno Swijtink and Sonia Taylor...

Sonia your information about Efren regarding unpaid taxes is mistaken. When I received the e-mail today from Sonoma Wildlife I called Efren and said did you pay your taxes? He said yes, and he called the County Tax Collector and spoke to Olivia (565-2799)...this is the young woman at the desk that gave you incomplete information. She said you didn't get ALL the information...it was like you "didn't want all the information" and you left.

I went to the Tax Collectors Office and talked to Olivia and also the Tax Collection Manager Terri Pozzi (565-3232). I also called and talked at length with the Press Democrat's Bleys Rose as he was poised to make an election morning story based on invalid information. Below is a letter provided by the Tax Collectors office saying Efren is current on his taxes and that the information you sent out is not correct. Please forward this on to all those you have notified that Efren didn't pay his property taxes and retract any and all forwards to other persons and groups.

Thank you,
Tom Lynch

https://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo343/maryr45/tax1.jpg?t=1225777239


https://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo343/maryr45/supplemental.jpg?t=1225777419

[Zeno Swijtink]

Apparently there are still some discrepancies between Carillo's public statement about having all his taxes payed on time and the public record. I hope to get a statement from Sonia Taylor based on a complete record tomorrow. Please stand by.

Zeno Swijtink

[riverosprey]

Thank you Zeno...less than 24 hours remain to the end of a nasty election from many sides.

with respect to all,
Tom Lynch

[PeriodThree]

With respect, posting this at this point is deeply unethical and fucked.

Under what value system is it okay to post this on the day before the election?

If I had not already returned my ballot this would make me change my vote from Rue to Efren.


Some late breaking news. - Zeno

******

Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:44:45 -0800
From: Sonia Taylor <[email protected]>
To: Zeno Swijtink <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Efren didn't pay his property taxes

Zeno, send this to hell and gone, if you like, under my name.

Sonia

Full disclosure -- I support Rue, and worked for her as a hired gun as a graphic designer during her campaign. I was never part of the campaign, and am officially (thankfully) unemployed right now.

This morning I decided to see if Efren owns property in Sonoma County and if he is current on his property taxes. To the best of my ability to discern, he does own a house at 2158 Waltzer Road in Santa Rosa (it strains probability that there is another single Efren Carrillo who would have notices sent to his parent's address). I also confirmed that he owes property taxes on that property for a supplemental assessment (when he bought the property on May 23, 2007, they reassessed it -- he paid the property taxes for the original value). HE HAS NOT PAID PROPERTY TAXES DUE for that supplemental assessment due on 3/31/08 and 7/31/08. They are unpaid as of this morning.

While the amount is not large ($2000 +/-), I take GRAVE exception to his (and the PD's) making Rue's nonpayment of taxes a moral issue, and, further to Efren LYING in his yellow file folder "furchfacts" mailer -- put out by his own campaign -- in which he said that he "always paid [his taxes] on time and in full." Unless I'm missing something, that's simply not true.
I have copies of all the documents, and if someone wants to post them somewhere, on line, let me know.

STUNNING. Can't believe NO ONE looked this up before now.

Sonia

</[email protected]></[email protected]>

[Barry]

When I first saw the email "revealing" that Efren had not paid his taxes, it struck me as a last minute hit, the sort that the "right" has perfected over the years. An accusation is made at the last minute when there is not time to research and refute it.

However, WaccoBB.net makes the communication channel shorter and easier, and I hope the evidence, supplied by Tom (riverosprey) gets out to all.

This really does feel like a dirt last minute hit piece. And I still support Rue. She is a good person and I trust that she would never stoop so low.

Barry

[PeriodThree]

Barry,

Your response feels very unsatisfying to me. Sonia and Zeno have done something vile on Wacco and your answer seems pretty much to support their actions.

Rich


When I first saw the email "revealing" that Efren had not paid his taxes, it struck me as a last minute hit, the sort that the "right" has perfected over the years. An accusation is made at the last minute when there is not time to research and refute it.

However, WaccoBB.net makes the communication channel shorter and easier, and I hope the evidence, supplied by Tom (riverosprey) gets out to all.

This really does feel like a dirt last minute hit piece. And I still support Rue. She is a good person and I trust that she would never stoop so low.

Barry

[Braggi]

Barry,

Your response feels very unsatisfying to me. ...

Rich, I was thinking the same thing and that the thread should be pulled, but on second thought, it does pay to see the machinations going on in last minute campaigning. It pays to know the thinking of those who would govern us and our tax dollars.

I tend to agree with previous posters that paying your property taxes on time is a pretty tiny issue when there are so many really huge issues at hand.

How about rebuilding Sonoma County Mental Health, for instance? Bet nobody's making any commitments on that.

-Jeff

[Zeno Swijtink]

When I first saw the email "revealing" that Efren had not paid his taxes, it struck me as a last minute hit, the sort that the "right" has perfected over the years. An accusation is made at the last minute when there is not time to research and refute it.

However, WaccoBB.net makes the communication channel shorter and easier, and I hope the evidence, supplied by Tom (riverosprey) gets out to all.

This really does feel like a dirt last minute hit piece. And I still support Rue. She is a good person and I trust that she would never stoop so low.

Barry

I regret forwarding this email to the list. My apologies. However, it was not based on machinations of any kind but on incomplete information provided by the Tax Collectors Office, as explained in the letter provided by Tom.

[riverosprey]

I subscribe to Sonoma Wildlife moderated by Zeno. I received the e-mail of Sonia's from the newsgroup and within two minutes after sending Zeno the above documents he had sent my e-mail out to the entire group and also noted on this site the error.

Sonia believed she had the real story and if I were a Rue supporter I would have been outraged as well. This system of newsgroups and bulletin boards is a double edged sword capable of cutting both ways. In the midst of a difficult campaign (...almost over) we must all be careful with our posts.

I have tremendous respect for the Waccovian community. Whoever wins today, let's continue working together with our new supervisor to heal divisions and work toward solutions like restoring mental health cuts as Jeff mentions above.

Peace out,
Tom

[Zeno Swijtink]

Apparently there are still some discrepancies between Carillo's public statement about having all his taxes payed on time and the public record. I hope to get a statement from Sonia Taylor based on a complete record tomorrow. Please stand by.

Zeno Swijtink

Here is Sonia Taylor's retraction and restatement of her earlier observation.

Zeno

******

Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:56:52 -0800
From: Sonia Taylor <[email protected]>
To: Zeno Swijtink <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Efren's Property Taxes

Please post everywhere you posted yesterday's incorrect email. Thanks! Sonia

------------


After a meeting with Terri Pozzi, Tax Collection Manager, this morning, I have learned that the tax collector's office provided me inaccurate information yesterday. Ms. Pozzi has written a letter to Mr. Carrillo claiming that it was MY fault -- that I didn't understand the information provided (copy provided on request). However, the bottom line, in spite of the Tax Collector's assertions in the letter they provided Mr. Carrillo, is that I asked a simple question -- "are there any unpaid taxes on this property?" -- which is a simple yes or no question. I was provided with inaccurate information by the Tax Collector's staff, and I fully understood the inaccurate information they provided. If they had provided accurate information, I'm certain I would have understood that too.

I have explained to Ms. Pozzi the implications of their providing me with inaccurate information -- that it is personally embarrassing to me, it is personally embarrassing to Mr. Carrillo, and it is really embarrassing for the Tax Collector's office. She has apologized profusely. For all the good that does.

In my meeting with Ms. Pozzi this morning, I learned that the fact is that Mr. Carrillo does own this property, and has paid all of his property taxes. However, the fact also is that -- in spite of Mr. Carrillo's public assertions otherwise in his mail piece -- "always paid on time and in full" -- he has paid his taxes late twice.

So, he's paid his taxes, but has paid them late twice.

If you want copies of that information, I will be scanning it shortly, and will provide it upon request, or you can go to the Tax Collector's office and get the information yourself.

Of course, I will be posting this correction to all the lists who received my inaccurate posting of yesterday.
I will point out that if I -- or any person -- can't rely on information provided by a public office, it's very hard to ever know what the truth is.

Sonia

[Geni Houston]

That's kinda like saying "the jury will disregard the previous testomony"
Opps! Sorry!
I am still disgusted

[PeriodThree]

This all feels icky. According to Sonia and Zeno they did nothing wrong, it was all the fault of the tax office.

Sonia's 'Retraction' sounds like a Reagenesque 'mistakes were made' non apology apology, except with added finger pointing at the county.

I am really bothered by Sonia's comment

"I will point out that if I -- or any person -- can't rely on information provided by a public office, it's very hard to ever know what the truth is."

What Sonia did, and Zeno helped, was to make it harder to know what the truth is on the day before the election.







Here is Sonia Taylor's retraction and restatement of her earlier observation.

Zeno

******

Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:56:52 -0800
From: Sonia Taylor <[email protected]>
To: Zeno Swijtink <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Efren's Property Taxes

Please post everywhere you posted yesterday's incorrect email. Thanks! Sonia

------------


After a meeting with Terri Pozzi, Tax Collection Manager, this morning, I have learned that the tax collector's office provided me inaccurate information yesterday. Ms. Pozzi has written a letter to Mr. Carrillo claiming that it was MY fault -- that I didn't understand the information provided (copy provided on request). However, the bottom line, in spite of the Tax Collector's assertions in the letter they provided Mr. Carrillo, is that I asked a simple question -- "are there any unpaid taxes on this property?" -- which is a simple yes or no question. I was provided with inaccurate information by the Tax Collector's staff, and I fully understood the inaccurate information they provided. If they had provided accurate information, I'm certain I would have understood that too.

I have explained to Ms. Pozzi the implications of their providing me with inaccurate information -- that it is personally embarrassing to me, it is personally embarrassing to Mr. Carrillo, and it is really embarrassing for the Tax Collector's office. She has apologized profusely. For all the good that does.

In my meeting with Ms. Pozzi this morning, I learned that the fact is that Mr. Carrillo does own this property, and has paid all of his property taxes. However, the fact also is that -- in spite of Mr. Carrillo's public assertions otherwise in his mail piece -- "always paid on time and in full" -- he has paid his taxes late twice.

So, he's paid his taxes, but has paid them late twice.

If you want copies of that information, I will be scanning it shortly, and will provide it upon request, or you can go to the Tax Collector's office and get the information yourself.

Of course, I will be posting this correction to all the lists who received my inaccurate posting of yesterday.
I will point out that if I -- or any person -- can't rely on information provided by a public office, it's very hard to ever know what the truth is.

Sonia

</[email protected]></[email protected]>

[Geoff Johnson]

Carrillo owns a house on Waltzer Road, in Northwest Santa Rosa?

How can a 27-year-old PR man afford to buy a house in Santa Rosa? Did RCU loan him the money?

If he's elected, can he afford to make his house payments, on a Supe's salary? Or does he plan to keep his job at RCU, and be a Supervisor in his spare time?

I thought Carrillo lived in Roseland, in the Southwest. Is Waltzer Road even in the 5th Supe District?