Proposition 2 - Standards for Confining Farm Animals
This one also seems pretty clear. I am voting yes. Anybody brave enough to speak out against this?
miz editor
10-30-2008, 12:03 PM
I was appalled to see that the Bohemian spoke out AGAINST Prop. 2 in their endorsements last week. Who's paying THEM off?? Their lame excuse -- which coincidentally is the factory-farm industry's excuse/threat -- higher prices for eggs, etc. Their lame alternative: vote with your wallet by only buying non-factory eggs, meat, etc. That's working real well (for the industry).
I only wish that this dumb rag cost money, we could boycott it -- darn. Instead, it's supported by local advertisers, and gee, maybe some f-farm interests too. If you support Prop 2, consider writing them and expressing your dismay.
Proposition 2 - Standards for Confining Farm Animals
This one also seems pretty clear. I am voting yes. Anybody brave enough to speak out against this?
Vet-To-Pet
10-31-2008, 02:37 PM
:cowmoo::pig: Please help us !:chicken:
When I was taking an epidemiology (spread of diseases) course in vet school, we were forced to go on two individual "field trips", one to a beef/cattle slaughter house, the other to a chicken "processing plant" (killing plant). Both were horrible nightmares, not only due to my being forced to watch the terrible conditions & treatment these animals received (the workers were fairly callused to their jobs, so many of them joked & played music...), but to wince at the way the animals were "objectified"---they were no longer seen as living beings, they were just sent along to the next step in the assembly line of killing. I'll never forget one room we had to walk through---the entire floor was covered with chicken heads. there was no way to avoid stepping on some of the heads to pass through that room. I can still see it (that was in 1994 or so?) and feel the crunch of the heads under my feet. Yuck!
If you don't think fram animals (even hens that are kept alive for eggs) are kept in inhumane conditions, I suggest you take a "tour" of your closest slaughter house (oh, yeah, we went to see a pig ranch, too, but they were there to produce litters of piglets, in pens about large anough for them to lay on their sides to nurse them, or to stand in one place) to see where your next hamburger or coq au vin starts out.
You might decide to become a vegetarian.... :dcngbrocli: If I hadn't been already, those "field trips" would have changed my way of looking at my diet:vote:
Vet-To-Pet/Paula :tear:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated"~~~Gandhi
Proposition 2 - Standards for Confining Farm Animals
This one also seems pretty clear. I am voting yes. Anybody brave enough to speak out against this?[/quote]
tdavis
10-31-2008, 03:27 PM
I was told by someone who raises a few pigs a year for her immediate and extended family that the nursing pigs are kept in small crates because if they are allowed more room they step on, lay on, and crush some of their babies. I don't raise pigs so I don't know but I don't think it's fair to judge these farmers without knowing all of the facts.
Not to mention bad mouthing workers for being regular people and getting through their workday with a little music and some socializing. Slaughtering animals is not a job I'd like to do but I would do it if that was the only way to put food on the table. And I'd listen to music while I did it too.
I was told by another friend that UC Davis is not advocating this Prop because it is not written well enough and should be sent back to the drafting table. I'm still doing my own research but I'm pretty sure that even if it does pass the chickens won't look like the ones I saw in the ad I received last week. It sure was a sweet picture, those five or six chickens lolling around on about an acre of lush green grass!
oliviathunderkitty
10-31-2008, 03:54 PM
If sows crush their babies when humans don't intervene, why are they such an enduring species? This makes no sense. It seems right up there with another myth circulation during this election season, that cage-free eggs cannot be guaranteed as fresh because chickens can lay them any ol' place. This is totally untrue. If laying boxes are provided that's where chickens go. If you've ever had chickens of your own, you know this already.
There is a wonderful farm on Highway 1 just over the Sonoma-Marin County line, Clark Summit Farm. They are best known for their pigs, chicken and eggs. When I was there last spring, I saw pigs roaming as they wanted with their piglets following behind them. There were birthing huts the sows could use if they wanted; most did but some chose to birth by the creek. They lounged around as their babies scurried here and there, nursing and playing.
The chickens live in large enclosed areas that are moveable. At the center of each area is a chicken house that looks like a little cottage attached to a trailer hitch. The chickens lay their eggs inside (by choice) and sleep inside at night. The houses are moved here and there around the property as the season dictates.
The eggs, which sell for between $6.50 and $7 a dozen, are absolutely delicious, as is the pork. After having a few eggs of this quality, it is all but impossible to be satisfied with standard commercial eggs. When I can't get eggs like this, I do without.
There are other similar operations along the North Coast. And the farmers are making a living.
I will vote Yes on Prop. 2.
Vet-To-Pet
10-31-2008, 05:07 PM
When someone raises a few domestic animals, such as pigs, chickens, cattle, rabbits, etc, it's an entirely different reality for those animals than it is for animals raised as "production animals". I can't speak for the workers who are employed to work at these "production facilities" with huge volumes of animals passing through on any given day, but they were mostly Hispanic people who were most likely hired at very low wages---I didn't see anyone of any other race (this was in Northern GA). No one wants those jobs, but I guess one could get used to it, distance yourself from what you're actually doing.
The enclosures the pis with litters were in looked like the piglets could easily be crushed if a mis-step was taken by the sow or if she rolled onto one. Maybe that's why their litters are so large (10-14 or more), to allow for normal (?) attrition.
The California Veterinary Medical Association is FOR this proposition. I can't imagine that UC Davis, the biggest generator of CA veterinarians, would go against something that the CVMA approves. Most of the vets holding office in the CVMA are Davis graduates. I have a hard time believing that part of your post---where did your 'friend' get their information? I'm sure that not every single CA veterinarian approves of this proposition, but I'll bet the vast majority DO.
The next time that you pass a tractor trailer hauling several hundred chickens in tiny wire cages crammed onto the back of their truck, ask yourself if those are humane conditions. And that's just transporting to the next part of their nightmare...
Vet-To-Pet/Paula
I was told by someone who raises a few pigs a year for her immediate and extended family that the nursing pigs are kept in small crates because if they are allowed more room they step on, lay on, and crush some of their babies. I don't raise pigs so I don't know but I don't think it's fair to judge these farmers without knowing all of the facts.
Not to mention bad mouthing workers for being regular people and getting through their workday with a little music and some socializing. Slaughtering animals is not a job I'd like to do but I would do it if that was the only way to put food on the table. And I'd listen to music while I did it too.
I was told by another friend that UC Davis is not advocating this Prop because it is not written well enough and should be sent back to the drafting table. I'm still doing my own research but I'm pretty sure that even if it does pass the chickens won't look like the ones I saw in the ad I received last week. It sure was a sweet picture, those five or six chickens lolling around on about an acre of lush green grass!
miz editor
10-31-2008, 06:21 PM
My understanding, from the organizers for this U.S. Humane Society-sponsored initiative (not well-written??), is that the purpose is to initially set out a very "modest proposal", i.e. not try to fix or outlaw factory farms, which just wouldn't fly... but instead to make a tiny step in the right direction. (The proposal would only mandate that the animals can stand up, turn around, and spread their limbs.) The big vision/plan is that this modest of a proposition will certainly pass in California (we hope) -- the frontrunner of all things like this -- and so a precedent will be set, and then it will slowly spread to the rest of the country. Then later, bigger steps will be undertaken and bigger inroads made. So it actually is a very well-thought-out, systematic, and realistic plan.
Proposition 2 - Standards for Confining Farm Animals
This one also seems pretty clear. I am voting yes. Anybody brave enough to speak out against this?