eau or not to eau

[Juggledude]

Recently, I've had the opportunity to ponder the use of scented products on our bodies.

there's no accounting for tastes, I guess... human pheromones are tailored by millions of years of evolution to elicit strong responses from other humans...
then we come along and invent some societal squeamishness and spend millions as a culture trying to stifle our reptilian brain's responses by slathering our bodies with putrid chemicals.

Personally, I find most deodorants and perfumes to be incredibly offensive, if you hadn't already gathered that.

A quick search on Wacco for "deodorant" (using the new google search feature, very useful!) found only references to "please don't wear any deodorant or scented products...etc"... on the surface, it seems that by and large, our conscious community shares a desire not to repress that aspect of ourselves which we express chemically.

Now, within reason, I can see both sides of this equation... we've all been passed by the old lady in the supermarket who has a 50 ft blast radius because she buys her perfume by the gallon. By the same token, (though I enjoy it) I've been in the presence of a hard working human just in from sweaty work on a hot day who exudes a forceful olfactory presence. My personal sensitivities will cause me to ask to be reseated at a restaurant if I'm sitting within 3 tables of someone wearing even a slight scent. I can imagine the possibility that some have a similar aversion to natural odors.

At what point does respect for your fellow humans intersect with the ability to all get along in a society? To express yourself freely by wearing scents or by not wearing them? What about in the workplace, or home environments?

I guess the question then becomes one of owning ones own reactions, and making reasonable agreements with those around you.

(All this, of course, assumes that reasonable personal hygiene is a given)

I'm interested in exploring this further.

Royce

[shellebelle]

I am exceptionally sensitive to scents. In fact my allergies are going crazy for things I can't smell right now.

I find "over" scent - whether personal body or perfume - awful.

BUT WORSE than those is the smell of cigarettes on people. EWWWWW!! Then add perfume and okay just sick!!!! God forbid they be smoking while in public - go home and pollute your own world please!!!!!

And that scent and the nicotine is in their car, their home, on their clothes etc and many find this acceptable in a conscious community.

I can take body odor and scents in reasonable amounts but cigarette smell is just disgusting, triggers my allergies and to be covered by "scents' makes it worse.

So my two scents I'll politely put up with many things reasonable but it is beyond me why we find the smell and nicotine contamination of tobacco reasonable.

Personally I sometimes like to wear a bit of scent and would hate anyone to tell me I can't (nope don't attend anything with restrictions unless it's non smoking). On the other hand I certainly don't want to tell someone else they must wear a scent to please me!

Be clean and groomed and I will appreciate you being present!


Recently, I've had the opportunity to ponder the use of scented products on our bodies.

there's no accounting for tastes, I guess... human pheromones are tailored by millions of years of evolution to elicit strong responses from other humans...
then we come along and invent some societal squeamishness and spend millions as a culture trying to stifle our reptilian brain's responses by slathering our bodies with putrid chemicals.

Personally, I find most deodorants and perfumes to be incredibly offensive, if you hadn't already gathered that.

A quick search on Wacco for "deodorant" (using the new google search feature, very useful!) found only references to "please don't wear any deodorant or scented products...etc"... on the surface, it seems that by and large, our conscious community shares a desire not to repress that aspect of ourselves which we express chemically.

Now, within reason, I can see both sides of this equation... we've all been passed by the old lady in the supermarket who has a 50 ft blast radius because she buys her perfume by the gallon. By the same token, (though I enjoy it) I've been in the presence of a hard working human just in from sweaty work on a hot day who exudes a forceful olfactory presence. My personal sensitivities will cause me to ask to be reseated at a restaurant if I'm sitting within 3 tables of someone wearing even a slight scent. I can imagine the possibility that some have a similar aversion to natural odors.

At what point does respect for your fellow humans intersect with the ability to all get along in a society? To express yourself freely by wearing scents or by not wearing them? What about in the workplace, or home environments?

I guess the question then becomes one of owning ones own reactions, and making reasonable agreements with those around you.

(All this, of course, assumes that reasonable personal hygiene is a given)

I'm interested in exploring this further.

Royce

[MsTerry]

I agree, I too am more bothered by smell than anything else.
(I even go to the extreme of rolling my car back, rather than starting it up, so I don't have to breathe exhaust when I backup.LOL)
I feel if I can smell someone's scent 10 seconds after meeting them, that means they used too much.
Cigarette smoke indoors is the worst, outdoors, it reminds me of when I was younger and my Dad took me to the ballgame.


I am exceptionally sensitive to scents. In fact my allergies are going crazy for things I can't smell right now.

I find "over" scent - whether personal body or perfume - awful.

BUT WORSE than those is the smell of cigarettes on people. EWWWWW!! Then add perfume and okay just sick!!!! God forbid they be smoking while in public - go home and pollute your own world please!!!!!

And that scent and the nicotine is in their car, their home, on their clothes etc and many find this acceptable in a conscious community.

I can take body odor and scents in reasonable amounts but cigarette smell is just disgusting, triggers my allergies and to be covered by "scents' makes it worse.

So my two scents I'll politely put up with many things reasonable but it is beyond me why we find the smell and nicotine contamination of tobacco reasonable.

Personally I sometimes like to wear a bit of scent and would hate anyone to tell me I can't (nope don't attend anything with restrictions unless it's non smoking). On the other hand I certainly don't want to tell someone else they must wear a scent to please me!

Be clean and groomed and I will appreciate you being present!

[MsTerry]

Eau de Cologne or eau de robinet???

[cdegenhardt]

I enjoy scents. What I don't enjoy is what they're made of. I seem to be allergic to most of it - to the point of anaphylaxis. The more oil in them, the worse the reaction. I carry around an epi pen becuase of scents now. How frustrating is that;-o Even "natural" things like Essential Oils can be pretty bad for those who are severely allergic.
But a lot of "natural" things are pretty deadly. Rattlesnake bites, pneumonia, and a couple of relationships I've had come to mind;-)
And I'm not sure why, when our evolutionary mechanisms have made something as powerful as pheromones, we need artificial scents. Artificial scents were originally created by the early French Courts (and was soon followed by most of Europe) to deal with the stench caused by their lack of hygienic knowlege and ability at the time. With the hygiene issue out of the way - and for some folks not an issue - why use scent at all?
Pure preference - unnecessary, but preferred.
Our home is unscented, and I avoid scents when I can actually smell them (oil will stay on skin longer than the smell will hang around) but asking other folks not to use scent is a little trickier.
Folks tend to take it very personally when you ask them not to use scent. We've had friends refuse to come to our home because it's unscented
(What, they'd rather see me in the hospital I guess?) But we stick to it because it's the one place in the world that we can control and I breathe easily and without constant vigilance.
Interesiting factoid: Canada has done years of research on chemical sensetivities and found that more and more folks are allergic to scents simply because of the rising level of toxic chemicals in them. They've got all kinds of unscented products. Even their hotels tend to be relatively unscented as they use unscented soaps and none of that obnoxious "air freshener" that US hotels tend to use. They don't force it on folks. It's just a healthier choice that Canadians are making more often now - sort of like the US Slow Food and Organic movements. They're overall healthier choices. It would be nice to see more folks make those same choices here, but I think it's coming along actually. I appreciate the changes allready made. Compared to places like Texas, California is just about as unscented as you can get;-)




Recently, I've had the opportunity to ponder the use of scented products on our bodies.

there's no accounting for tastes, I guess... human pheromones are tailored by millions of years of evolution to elicit strong responses from other humans...
then we come along and invent some societal squeamishness and spend millions as a culture trying to stifle our reptilian brain's responses by slathering our bodies with putrid chemicals.

Personally, I find most deodorants and perfumes to be incredibly offensive, if you hadn't already gathered that.

A quick search on Wacco for "deodorant" (using the new google search feature, very useful!) found only references to "please don't wear any deodorant or scented products...etc"... on the surface, it seems that by and large, our conscious community shares a desire not to repress that aspect of ourselves which we express chemically.

Now, within reason, I can see both sides of this equation... we've all been passed by the old lady in the supermarket who has a 50 ft blast radius because she buys her perfume by the gallon. By the same token, (though I enjoy it) I've been in the presence of a hard working human just in from sweaty work on a hot day who exudes a forceful olfactory presence. My personal sensitivities will cause me to ask to be reseated at a restaurant if I'm sitting within 3 tables of someone wearing even a slight scent. I can imagine the possibility that some have a similar aversion to natural odors.

At what point does respect for your fellow humans intersect with the ability to all get along in a society? To express yourself freely by wearing scents or by not wearing them? What about in the workplace, or home environments?

I guess the question then becomes one of owning ones own reactions, and making reasonable agreements with those around you.

(All this, of course, assumes that reasonable personal hygiene is a given)

I'm interested in exploring this further.

Royce[/quote]

[Juggledude]

Though the issues of inclusion, contamination, chemical content and toxicity are remarkable parallels, I was specifically speaking of Eau de Cologne ;-)



Eau de Cologne or eau de robinet???

[Juggledude]

Carol,

I sympathize with your allergy issues, and am happy that my strong aversion remains simply that, as opposed to becoming an actual medical concern as you have. I wonder, on the flip side of the coin... are there folks who are medically reactive to pheromonal processes? I'd not think the incidence would be as high as to synthetic reactants. Anyway, your observation and assessment of "Pure Preference" as the root of use is astute, and I agree completely.

Again, to look at the picture from both sides, I'd imagine folks are equally (or perhaps even more so?) likely to take it very personally when you ask them TO use scents, or, more specifically, to use artificial products to cover, mask, or eliminate their natural scents.

Royce


With the hygiene issue out of the way - and for some folks not an issue - why use scent at all?
Pure preference - unnecessary, but preferred.

<snip>


Folks tend to take it very personally when you ask them not to use scent. We've had friends refuse to come to our home because it's unscented

[RichT]

Again, to look at the picture from both sides, I'd imagine folks are equally (or perhaps even more so?) likely to take it very personally when you ask them TO use scents, or, more specifically, to use artificial products to cover, mask, or eliminate their natural scents.

Royce
I am plagued with allergies to everything under the sun: dust, pollen, molds, foods, dogs, scents, cigarette smoke, etc. It is hard to go into public places where irritating scents are omnipresent. Almost all major soaps and detergents are scented; I often am unable to get a good nights sleep in hotels because of it. I have had to change seats or even leave theaters and restaurants because of people wearing toxic odors.

I had a hiking "friend" who made a public point of insisting that I should use deodorants, even after being informed that I have chemical sensitivities. I did take it very personally and she is no longer an acquaintance of mine.

[Dixon]

Due to the influence of a couple of environmentally sensitive friends of mine, I have changed my habits so that I don't use much that's scented anymore. For soap, I use unscented Dr. Bronner's, and I also use unscented shampoo and, when I can find it, unscented deodorant. I haven't yet found any kind of unscented hair-styling gel; does anyone have any suggestions for that? Also, suggestions re: unscented laundry detergent?

With an increasingly toxic environment causing more environmental sensitivities in more people, we should all have mercy on these folks and change our habits. What a drag to have to leave a movie or other public place because of the chemical stench of those around you! Remember, next month or next year, it could be YOU who is allergic to some of these scents. Have mercy! I'm reminded of a funny line I read somewhere: "Nice perfume! But did you have to marinate in it?"

We have been conditioned by cynical corporations to be addicted to their chemical products so they can make money from our programmed insecurities. Remember, there's nothing wrong with smelling like a human being.

Dixon


I am plagued with allergies to everything under the sun: dust, pollen, molds, foods, dogs, scents, cigarette smoke, etc. It is hard to go into public places where irritating scents are omnipresent. Almost all major soaps and detergents are scented; I often am unable to get a good nights sleep in hotels because of it. I have had to change seats or even leave theaters and restaurants because of people wearing toxic odors.

I had a hiking "friend" who made a public point of insisting that I should use deodorants, even after being informed that I have chemical sensitivities. I did take it very personally and she is no longer an acquaintance of mine.

[alanora]

I agree with Dixon. I have been moved to vomit by the stench of humanity, in its end of rugged workday glory, as well as by the mixed multiples of manufactured or distilled essences chosen by random humans as grooming products, just before boarding an elevator to descend and start their day. Pesticide row in wal-mart has the same effect, as does tobacco burning in a closed space. I guess that makes me "chemically sensitive" as well. Yet there are fragrances I adore....ambergris and tuberose, horse poop and my Kitty"s feet. Go figure. I prefer less inhabited regions, or times of day fer sure. I have a friend who would apply nivea something to her legs before entering my car and the smell was sickening and it took someone else telling her in addition to myself to have an impact. She uses an unscented aveeno product now. Buyer beware....if at all possible, smell even the "unscented" before you purchase as sometimes they have an intolerable scent without any added scent at all. Just my $.02. Mindy
VOTE

Due to the influence of a couple of environmentally sensitive friends of mine, I have changed my habits so that I don't use much that's scented anymore. For soap, I use unscented Dr. Bronner's, and I also use unscented shampoo and, when I can find it, unscented deodorant. I haven't yet found any kind of unscented hair-styling gel; does anyone have any suggestions for that? Also, suggestions re: unscented laundry detergent?

With an increasingly toxic environment causing more environmental sensitivities in more people, we should all have mercy on these folks and change our habits. What a drag to have to leave a movie or other public place because of the chemical stench of those around you! Remember, next month or next year, it could be YOU who is allergic to some of these scents. Have mercy! I'm reminded of a funny line I read somewhere: "Nice perfume! But did you have to marinate in it?"

We have been conditioned by cynical corporations to be addicted to their chemical products so they can make money from our programmed insecurities. Remember, there's nothing wrong with smelling like a human being.

Dixon

[Sylph]

I also have a very sensitive nose, although I'm not allergic to these scents, thank goodness. Some of the worst offenders are fabric softeners. I work with a girl who reeks of them.

Years ago, I helped care for a woman who had multiple chemical sensitivities and a nose like a bloodhound. I switched over to unscented detergent, shampoo...everything. One thing I noticed was how my sense of smell became more acute as I got away from the strong scents. Getting into an elevator during that time with guys saturated with aftershave or women with perfume was a shock to the system. I think when we are overloading our noses with various scents, they become less sensitive.

I love certain scents, like tuberose and ylang-ylang, which evoke tropical places where I've traveled and happy memories. However, after reading this thread I will be more careful about going out in public with perfume. After the first minute, the person wearing the perfume stops noticing the scent much, anyway.

[Barry]

... Remember, there's nothing wrong with smelling like a human being.

This thread has been mostly focused on the use of scented products. But what about smelling like a human being after getting hot or stressed and perspiring without the help of (unscented) deodorant? What do you think about not using deodorant and smelling a bit, shall we say, ripe?

[Sylph]

This thread has been mostly focused on the use of scented products. But what about smelling like a human being after getting hot or stressed and perspiring without the help of (unscented) deodorant? What do you think about not using deodorant and smelling a bit, shall we say, ripe?
I would rather they wear deodorant! The smell of work sweat (one day's worth) isn't as bad as the goaty reek of 'stress sweat'. If I had to be in close quarters very long with someone with that 'fragrance', it would be difficult to bear.

[Juggledude]

Interesting point, to differentiate the different types of body odor... I imagine that you'd have to get to know someone pretty well to notice the variations. It also seems that this might be a form of non verbal communication, an added dimension of connection to the person whom you are sharing space with.. perhaps stress or fear scents have evolved to be distressing, to share information and bring others into gestalt. That would also explain why the musk of arousal is fairly universally enjoyed! Anyone have experience with this beyond the anecdotal?

Royce


I would rather they wear deodorant! The smell of work sweat (one day's worth) isn't as bad as the goaty reek of 'stress sweat'. If I had to be in close quarters very long with someone with that 'fragrance', it would be difficult to bear.

[Sylph]

Two people close to me have lost their sense of smell due to head trauma. I feel so bad for them that they've lost this dimension of the senses. My acute sense of smell can be a disadvantage considering I work in a hospital, but I wouldn't trade it for anything!

Back to the question of "B.O.", I would prefer a goaty natural smell to cologne that was too strong.

This article was pretty interesting:

Excess sweating, a condition known as "hyperhydrosis," often results in underarm, foot, and general body odor, especially when bathing is not regular. The human body possesses three major types of skin glands--sebaceous glands (most commonly around the face and forehead), eccrine (or sweat) glands, and apocrine glands. While more than two million eccrine glands over most of the bodyrelease an odorless sweat that consist of 99 percent pure water along with traces of salt and potassium, a limited amount of apocrine glands located in the armpits, the genitals, and anywhere there is hair produce a viscous substance. This sticky matter is also made on hands, cheeks, and scalps, and when it is exposed to a warm environment, the sweat encourages the growth of certain bacteria and fungi. These microorganisms digest components of sweat and release volatile chemicals that are responsible for the acrid odor associated with sweat.
Some of the common bacteria responsible for body odor include micrococci, staphylococci, aerobic and anaerobic corneforms, and pityrosporum species. Apocrine glands enlarge and become active during puberty, and stress can also cause the glands to constrict, developing more sweat from the skin. A woman's body temperature will increase a full degree higher before she perspires, causing men to sweat more than women. Those people with excess hair also sweat moredue to their numerous hair follicles where aprocrine glands originate. Caucasians and blacks have more aprocrine glands than Asians, who, as a result sweat less. "Bromidrosis" is the medical term used to describe the condition ofunpleasant body odors produced by excess sweating. This condition is so rareamong Japanese men, that historically, a strong body odor could disqualify them from military service.
Body odors that are considered benign include the scent produced by a mother's breast milk and the individually unique odor of every infant. Scientific studies have demonstrated that human babies and mothers can recognize one another solely on the basis of odor. Scent-communicating chemical compounds are also contained in human sweat, urine, breath, saliva, breast milk, skin oils, and sexual secretions. Genital and anal odors are also emitted by humans. Somepeople consider strong genital odors to be an attractant. In a famous nineteenth-century love letter, Napolean Bonaparte instructed his mistress Josephine that she must not wash, since he would soon be returning from one of his European campaigns and wanted to enjoy her sexual scent. During Victorian times, nice-smelling young English women would sell handkerchiefs scented with their body odor, and during the last century, perfumeries tried to mass market the smell of sexual attraction by bottling the gentle musk deer's aroma--hoping to duplicate this animal's biochemical bouquet and its presumed effect on the opposite sex.
The act of perceiving an odor, whether it be pleasing or noxious, is called olfaction. At the top of the nasal cavity in humans is a small patch of skin called the olfactory epithelium. Only a few centimeters square, it contains some five million olfactory neurons. When these neurons sense and recognize specific odor molecules, they send signals to the olfactory bulb, which is part of the brain. The sensation of smell happens quickly, with olfactory cells responding within milliseconds. Odors are also rapidly adapted to, with olfactory receptors adapting about 50 percent within the first second, while remaining adaptation happens very slowly after this. Only a microscopic quantity of a substance needs to be present in the air for it to be smelled (also known as minimal identifiable odor or MIO), allowing for an extremely low threshold to be smell's major characteristic. The substance methyl mercaptan can be detected in concentrations as low as 1/25,000,000,000 mg per milliliter of air. Individual reaction to the perception of odors is highly variable, and appears to be determined at least somewhat by culture and learning. In previous centuries, when current sanitation and personal hygiene practices differed, humans were presumably more tolerant of bodily odors.
Throughout much of the twentieth century, it was assumed that humans were unable to detect pheromones (a substance that provides chemical means of communication by way of smell) due to the presumed lack of a vomeronasal organ (VNO)--a pair of tiny cigar-shaped sacs in the nasal cavity. Many animal species rely on the VNO as an excessory olfactory system to detect the presence of pheromones, or a type of bodily odor that may advertise the sexual readiness ofa potential animal mate. It was long believed that body odor played no role in human sexual attraction. Recent studies have proven the presence of a human's VNO, and its importance along with the brain's olfactory bulb continue tobe studied. The nerve cells in this organ, like those in the olfactory epithelium, appear able to sense and recognize specific odor molecules. Scientists speculate that human pheromones are involved in sexual attraction, and that the sensory perception of pheromones may occur unconsciously.
One way that pheromones may be exchanged is through universal human greetings such as a handshake or a kiss. The Eskimo kiss of rubbing noses is a mutual sniffing of body smells, and only in the Western world has this been modified to a kiss. The hands and face are the two most accessible concentrations ofscent glands on the human body other than the ears. Humans have a denser skin concentration of scent glands than almost any other mammal, and researcherscontinue to study the significance of the human body's odor on interpersonalinteractions.
https://www.faqs.org/health/topics/69/Body-odor.html

[Dixon]

This thread has been mostly focused on the use of scented products. But what about smelling like a human being after getting hot or stressed and perspiring without the help of (unscented) deodorant? What do you think about not using deodorant and smelling a bit, shall we say, ripe?

For 25 years, from 1971 to 1996, I forwent use of deodorants because I had a notion that it wasn't healthy to put those chemicals in our armpits where they would be absorbed into our bodies, and I figured that as long as I showered daily I wouldn't stink. In retrospect, that was often true, but, even though no one ever complained to me of my smell in that entire quarter-century, I now realize that I must have stunk in some situations, such as when I used to get real sweaty riding a one-speed bike to college and then attend classes all day.

In '96 I resumed the deodorant habit at the suggestion of my then-girlfriend. After awhile, I found that most deodorants irritated my pits, making them red and itchy, which suggests to me that there was something to my concern about the harsh chemicals therein. I'm still not sure exactly which chemicals irritate me, so I must be very careful to find the most natural, non-irritating deodorants I can, preferably non-scented for the sake of my environmentally sensitive friends. Any suggestions for a good, unscented, gentle deodorant?

Sweet-smelling Dixon

[Dixon]

..."'Bromidrosis' is the medical term used to describe the condition of unpleasant body odors produced by excess sweating. ..."

I guess that's my cue to present this excerpt from the classic Frank Zappa song "Stinkfoot":

"Now scientists call this disease
Bromidrosis
But us regular folks
Who might wear tennis shoes
Or an occasional python boot
Know this exquisite little inconvenience
By the name of:
STINK FOOT
Y'know, my python boot is too tight
I couldn't get it off last night
A week went by, an' now it's July
I finally got it off
An' my girlfriend cry
'You got STINK FOOT!
STINK FOOT, darlin'
Your STINK FOOT puts a hurt on my nose!
STINK FOOT! STINK FOOT! I ain't lyin',
Can you rinse it off, d'you suppose?'"

[MsTerry]

Any suggestions for a good, unscented, gentle deodorant?

Sweet-smelling Dixon

The crystal seems to work well.
It's clear, unscented and "natural"

[ajh]

Hi, (new to Wacco),
I have heard that a powder dust of soda will suppress unwanted underarm smell for a day.

a few years ago when I was in Costa Rica the Rainbow World gathering was held near my place, and one day our Internet cafe filled up with attendees - the acute, accumulated body odor made the room unbreatheable - to me - and also it totally offended the Ticos running it. One of the employees mopped continually for hours with a highly scented floor soap - didn't faze the Rainbow people but the combination drove me away immediately.

I also move further away in public if necessary and I am particularly sensitive to clothing washed in Tide. My throat closes up when I get a whiff....I use 20 mule team Borax in my laundry with just a little "7th generation blue eucalyptus and lavender natural laundry detergent".

Arlie


The crystal seems to work well.
It's clear, unscented and "natural"