Incident at Whole Foods

[Larysa]

Greetings!

As I was eating this morning at Whole Foods, three men were talking loudly in the inside eating area. As another women sat down to eat, one of them became very loud as he read to his friends. She politely asked him to quiet down and he became belligerent and yelled at her to leave!

I turned around and requested for him to please stop yelling. His hostility increased and he began yelling at me. Both the other woman and myself felt threatened, immediately left the area and told staff members, who promptly called the manager. Ten minutes later the assistant manger Clarke Pomeroy saunters to the front of the store.

The other woman and I were noticably upset, standing w/ our breakfasts in our hands and quickly told him what had happened. Clarke Pomeroy walked over to the three men and spent the next 30 minutes laughing and joking with them! He completely believed their lies that we were friends who were yelling at them! When he spoke with us, Clarke Pomeroy simply shrugged it off and did not want to do anything!

We and other people who were there are appalled that someone who was belligerent and hostile to two people was not asked to leave!
I have called the corporate office (510) 428-7400 ext. #7067 and no one has returned my calls. Needless to say, I will not shop there any more.

Perhaps it is time for Whole Foods to be replaced by a community food co-op. I had belonged to People's in the Ocean Beach area of San Diego for many years and feel that is an excellent model among several others.

Thank you for reading this!

Sincerely, Larysa

[Braggi]

... We and other people who were there are appalled that someone who was belligerent and hostile to two people was not asked to leave! ...

Larysa, I'm sorry you had to experience that. A scene like that certainly can take the pleasure out of an otherwise good meal.

I'm trying to look at it through the manager's eyes. His job in a situation like this is to "keep the peace" if he can. So what's the more peaceful solution? He could attempt to "throw the bums out" and wind up with a major shouting match or worse and then have to call the police which would have resulted in a nasty front page article in the Press Demo, or he could have done just what he did: try to defuse the immediate situation by calming down the jerks who were being obnoxious. It sounds like he was successful based on your description. To do otherwise would have escalated a bad situation.

It sounds like you're upset the bad boys weren't punished for upsetting your meal. I agree with pearl g that your best option is to let it go. Find a way to use that energy for good. Getting even is never going to happen. The best revenge is living well.

Good luck,

-Jeff

[Indigo]

It's a bummer you had such a negative experience at Whole Foods. I always like to think of health food stores as "safe havens", so it's doubly upsetting when something like that happens there.

You might consider shopping at Community Market in Santa Rosa. I know it's a little farther if you live in Sebastopol, but with good food planning you might be able to reduce the number of times per month you need to shop.

Community Market has a wonderful crew of workers who are warm and friendly. They have a high integrity in regard to the food they stock. The quality of their produce has improved considerably over the years, and they buy a lot of it from local farmers. It's really a great place to shop AND support our local economy.

Indigo

[shellebelle]

I'm reading this and it's dawning on me you didn't say which Whole Foods.

Mean while as the West County folks we are we are responding as if it were Sebastopol and the fact is it "sounds" like it is Petaluma's.

Now assuming I am right you may want to choose your communities wiser. Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there.

I cannot imagine that same situation in Sebastopol without an immediate acknowledgment not only from staff but from shoppers.

Maybe you should shop in Sebastopol. It's a much more enlightened and enjoyable experience.

Live where you must; shop and embrace community where you choose!

[Larysa]

Thank you to everyone who has replied and expressed gratitude to my post!
Just for the record: I was born and raised in New York City and this happened in Sebastopol. Most importantly: I confronted the man because he was yelling at the woman, not because he was just being loud w/ his buddies.

The other woman and I were upset because we witnessed this man's verbal hostility toward another person within seconds of each other and that management did nothing!

Would I intervene on the behalf of another person being bullied or would I wimp out and cower? I know what I would do. How about you?

Hugs & Blessings, Larysa

[elienos]

Are people in Sebastopol normally this condescending?


I'm reading this and it's dawning on me you didn't say which Whole Foods.

Mean while as the West County folks we are we are responding as if it were Sebastopol and the fact is it "sounds" like it is Petaluma's.

Now assuming I am right you may want to choose your communities wiser. Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there.

I cannot imagine that same situation in Sebastopol without an immediate acknowledgment not only from staff but from shoppers.

Maybe you should shop in Sebastopol. It's a much more enlightened and enjoyable experience.

Live where you must; shop and embrace community where you choose!

[champignon]

Boycott Whole Foods. They are mostly evil except for some of the people that work there are not completely evil.

[bluwind]

were those broads on the rag or what


I'm reading this and it's dawning on me you didn't say which Whole Foods.

Mean while as the West County folks we are we are responding as if it were Sebastopol and the fact is it "sounds" like it is Petaluma's.

Now assuming I am right you may want to choose your communities wiser. Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there.

I cannot imagine that same situation in Sebastopol without an immediate acknowledgment not only from staff but from shoppers.

Maybe you should shop in Sebastopol. It's a much more enlightened and enjoyable experience.

Live where you must; shop and embrace community where you choose!

[katkatf]

Larysa, I can understand why you are upset. The incident that happened sounds extremely unpleasant. No one deserves to be yelled at as you were. Not getting the support of the store manager would have distressed me too.
--------------------------
Shelley. FYI, not everyone who is on WaccoBB lives in Sebastopol.

Reading your post, I felt like I was standing right next to someone who was having a loud conversation with someone else, saying what a bad person I am, talking as if I were not in the room.

I live in Petaluma. I shop at Whole Foods. I consider myself fairly conscious and aware, liberal and progressive. I would have jumped right in had I witnessed an incident such as Larysa described. I resent a lot of the generalizations you made about people who live in Petaluma. I realize all that you say is really all about you and not Petaluma or Petalumans, but I guess the little kid in me has hurt feelings and feels a need to respond and hold a mirror up to you.

Kathy


I'm reading this and it's dawning on me you didn't say which Whole Foods.

Mean while as the West County folks we are we are responding as if it were Sebastopol and the fact is it "sounds" like it is Petaluma's.

Now assuming I am right you may want to choose your communities wiser. Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there.

I cannot imagine that same situation in Sebastopol without an immediate acknowledgment not only from staff but from shoppers.

Maybe you should shop in Sebastopol. It's a much more enlightened and enjoyable experience.

Live where you must; shop and embrace community where you choose!

[bird]

It is too bad that you had that experience, but I have "rude" experiences almost every single time I go into Whole Foods due to the folks who insist on walking the isles talking loudly on their cell phones.
It is my understanding that Whole Foods is going to go more "main stream" in attempts to maintain profit levels. Have you seen the new store being built in front of Coddingtown? Looks like a Whole Foods Superstore. It's huge.
This is the new direction of Whole Paycheck. More like Spaceway or the other major supermarkets.
Rudeness seems to come with the territory whether we like it or not....sigh.
If those guys threw food at you or something then I could see the justification of asking them to leave. But talking loudly and being rude seems to be totally "American" at this point in time.
Time to breathe and let it go. I love shopping at Community Market, Food for Humans and Andy's Produce. I agree that Sebastopol needs something along these lines and I feel such a venue would be supported wholeheartedly by this community.

All the Best and Peace.





Sometimes people are loud, especially if they are having fun. These guys are probably not from around here where people are hyper-sensitive. Yelling is perfectly acceptable in most cultures. A day in New York wouldn't be normal without some spirited yelling. If you see loud guys eating at whole foods, don't sit next to them. You asked him to stop yelling. That is all you could do. Now you must try to let it go. Some people are loud and even seem "belligerent". We must try to respect that obnoxious people don't know how annoying they are. Take a lesson from New Yorkers and try to pay more attention to yourself. Focus inward. If those guys are really just three loud dummies and guy working at whole foods is a dummy, then you should be able to let it go easily.

[MsTerry]

Can you please supply us with the names or pictures of the people that are completely evil, since it is so close to the town square and my kids walk by there everyday.
I like to keep them out of harm's way, if I can.
Thanks!


Boycott Whole Foods. They are mostly evil except for some of the people that work there are not completely evil.

[Mr. Natural]

Hello,

I'm sorry that the two of you were treated in such a terrible manner. I wish food co-ops were a big movement now as they were in the past. I met many nice people who I volunteered with at food co-ops many years ago. The cost to rent a store as well as other bills have skyrocketed making it very difficult for store front Co-ops to survive.

I prefer to purchase produce as well as other food, body care, and cleaning products at locally owned stores. I am in Santa Rosa most of the time.

I like Mike's Truck Garden on River Road, Imwalle's Garden (which has been a farm since the late 1800s, The Santa Rosa Farmer's Market, Santa Rosa Community Market, and Oliver's Market. Many of the bulk items cost less at Oliver's than they do at Whole Foods. I also buy some produce at Tarasco Market in Roseland and G & G.

As you probably know, Whole Foods in Sebastopol began as a locally owned store called Food For Thought. The old owners - Jim and Ernie sold their three stores to Whole Foods in either 1999 or 2000 for 25 Million Dollars.

One of the managers in the Santa Rosa Whole Foods has a very harsh side. Her name is Lynn. She used to own a nice nice, locally owned natural foods store in Petaluma called Back to Basics in the 80's & 90's She sometimes behaves in a very prejudicial manner by telling certain people that they are no longer welcome in the store. She smiles at them while delivering her hateful, nasty verbal junk.

Be well,

HR

[hestia]

It's a bummer you had such a negative experience at Whole Foods. I always like to think of health food stores as "safe havens", so it's doubly upsetting when something like that happens there.

You might consider shopping at Community Market in Santa Rosa. I know it's a little farther if you live in Sebastopol, but with good food planning you might be able to reduce the number of times per month you need to shop.

Community Market has a wonderful crew of workers who are warm and friendly. They have a high integrity in regard to the food they stock. The quality of their produce has improved considerably over the years, and they buy a lot of it from local farmers. It's really a great place to shop AND support our local economy.

Indigo

I second this testimonial for Community Market. I've been shopping there since they were on Morgan Street in SR (a very long time). They are friendly, very helpful...and I don't experience the snootyness that I get at Whole Pocketbook.

[miz editor]

Yeah, I don't set foot in there anyway: bizarrely inflated corporate pricing and nasty, speedy vibes, hipper-than-thou snobby people... gee, there are alternatives, you know??



Greetings!

As I was eating this morning at Whole Foods, three men were talking loudly in the inside eating area. ...

[Barrie]

there is a community co-op. It is Community Market in Santa Rosa. Whole Foods is a big texas based corporation.

Barrie
Greetings!

As I was eating this morning at Whole Foods, three men were talking loudly in the inside eating area. As another women sat down to eat, one of them became very loud as he read to his friends. She politely asked him to quiet down and he became belligerent and yelled at her to leave!

I turned around and requested for him to please stop yelling. His hostility increased and he began yelling at me. Both the other woman and myself felt threatened, immediately left the area and told staff members, who promptly called the manager. Ten minutes later the assistant manger Clarke Pomeroy saunters to the front of the store.

The other woman and I were noticably upset, standing w/ our breakfasts in our hands and quickly told him what had happened. Clarke Pomeroy walked over to the three men and spent the next 30 minutes laughing and joking with them! He completely believed their lies that we were friends who were yelling at them! When he spoke with us, Clarke Pomeroy simply shrugged it off and did not want to do anything!

We and other people who were there are appalled that someone who was belligerent and hostile to two people was not asked to leave!
I have called the corporate office (510) 428-7400 ext. #7067 and no one has returned my calls. Needless to say, I will not shop there any more.

Perhaps it is time for Whole Foods to be replaced by a community food co-op. I had belonged to People's in the Ocean Beach area of San Diego for many years and feel that is an excellent model among several others.

Thank you for reading this!

Sincerely, Larysa

[watermarkfarm]

Now assuming I am right you may want to choose your communities wiser. Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there.


Is everyone in Sebastopol THIS righteous and condescending??

[decterlove]

Amen, to that, Watermarkfarm! Shame on you, Shellebelle! The North Bay area is like the rest of the world....it's a socio-ecological system.....not every town can be as fun, casual and freewheeling as Sebastopol, and Petaluma has a very interesting, if less hippy-leaning set of people. A lot has to do with highways and waterways and other factors...for example Napa is on a line north of the East Bay and that whole longitudinal axis is very different that the one that goes north across the golden gate bridge up 101. Sebastopol, like Sonoma, is a little off the major 101 highway vector, which insulates it a bit from the Urban and Suburban energy and values, that spring up around a commuter channel.

And I can prove all of the above scientifically for those who object to my freewheeling intuitive based analysis.....I just need a VERY BIG TEST TUBE!!!! and LOTS AND LOTS OF GOVERNMENT FUNDING!


Is everyone in Sebastopol THIS righteous and condescending??

[elienos]

Amen, to that, Watermarkfarm! Shame on you, Shellebelle! The North Bay area is like the rest of the world....it's an socio-ecological system.....not every town can be as fun, casual and freewheeling as Sebastopol, and Petaluma has a very interesting, if less hippy-leaning set of people. A lot has to do with highways and waterways and other factors...for example Napa is on a line north of the East Bay and that whole longitudinal axis is very different that the one that goes north across the golden gate bridge up 101. Sebastopol, like Sonoma, is a little off the major 101 highway vector, which insulates it a bit from the Urban and Suburban energy and values, that spring up around a commuter channel.

And I can prove all of the above scientifically for those who object to my freewheeling intuitive based analysis.....I just need a VERY BIG TEST TUBE!!!! and LOTS AND LOTS OF GOVERNMENT FUNDING!

And thank [whoever the hell you want] for diversity!

To make a point...I heard a long conversation once in one of my classes at New College in SF between an Iranian woman and Black woman about how they were afraid of Northbay in general and Sebastopol in particular (where one of our "supreme leaders" Martin Hamilton was from) and really viewed it as a freaky delusional middle-class white-hippy haven. I said it wasn't so bad, but of course I am white and was raised by hippies (though not middle class by far).

[mykil]

Just be glad you were not raised
In Cazadero and Guerneville like me!


And thank [whoever the hell you want] for diversity!

To make a point...I heard a long conversation once in one of my classes at New College in SF between an Iranian woman and Black woman about how they were afraid of Northbay in general and Sebastopol in particular (where one of our "supreme leaders" Martin Hamilton was from) and really viewed it as a freaky delusional middle-class white-hippy haven. I said it wasn't so bad, but of course I am white and was raised by hippies (though not middle class by far).

[Barry]

Is everyone in Sebastopol THIS righteous and condescending??

I like to think not.

Speaking for myself, while I live in greater Sebastopol (outside the city limits) and I think it's a wonderful town. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say:


...Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there....

and I'd have to agree with several other posters that found this very condescending. I have asked Shellebelle to reconsider her comments.

I know far fewer people in Petaluma than I do in Sebastopol, where I have lived for 20 years, and they are every bit as "conscious or aware" as people in Sebastopol. And that doesn't say anything about the 99.99% of the people there that I don't know (and that Shellebelle doesn't know either).

It is clear that Petaluma is a bigger city than Sebastopol, and as dectorlove pointed out, perhaps it is a bit more urban/suburban. Sebastopol may be more hippie-esque, but that's not necessarily a good thing with our propensity for circular firing squads and other forms of drama. Even our honored Green City Council can't seem to treat each other with kindness and respect. :(:

I'm actually a bit jealous of their Whole Foods, as it seems nicer than Sebastopol's (as does Santa Rosa's and San Rafael's). Maybe its just because I am less familiar with them.

I have been very impressed with the new Theater District in Petaluma, and The Mystic is still my favorite performance venue in the county. John Crowley and his Aqus Cafe are a wonderful centers of community as is the Moose Lodge, from what I hear. The progressive festival got a huge turnout as well!
I believe they have a free public wi-fi system. :idea: Maybe that's the problem! They are all getting their brains slowly fried... Just kidding! :nearmiss:

Back to the original post on this thread, I commend you, Larysa, for trying to get the management involved and I am disheartened to hear Clarke was not helpful. Note that he is the "assistant manager", rather than the "manager" who may have been more helpful. I would suggest you contact the store manager. And they are in the the grocery business, rather than the precarious moderation business... :wink:

[MsTerry]

Are you trying to tell us that there is more to your story?


Just be glad you were not raised
In Cazadero and Guerneville like me!

[elienos]

Is everyone in Sebastopol THIS righteous and condescending??

How come when I said "Are people in Sebastopol normally this condescending?" about the exact same shellbelle post a couple days ago, everyone ignored me, and then when you said it, you get all the attention?

[pearl g]

What's so bad about what Shellebelle wrote?
Everyone knows that Petaluma is a creepy, scary town.
While we may be condescending hippies here in Sebastopol at least we are not yukky and dirty. But I'll give them a break in Pet for having an awesome whole foods. We don't have room for a big co-op. The cramped quarters at Sebastopol Whole Foods have caused some horrible scenes. Seems almost a fire danger in there.

[katkatf]

Pearl G - just curious, are you a troll? In case you don't know, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory things to get folks riled up and posting angrily in reply. Then the troll sits back and watches, laughing and enjoying the chaos created.

I am offended by what you wrote. I live in Petaluma, having moved here by free choice earlier this year. You are saying mean things about my chosen home town, where I plan to live as long as my husband and I can take care of ourselves and each other. I am trying my darnedest to remember that what you have said is all about you and nothing about me or Petaluma. And I am working really, really hard to not judge you. I am doing better with the first than with the second..... and am feeling grateful that I live in Petaluma and not Sebastopol.

For the record, I was (and still am in my heart) a hippie. We were/are about bringing love into the world and spreading it around. If you're trying to spread love, I don't feel it.

Kathy



What's so bad about what Shellebelle wrote?
Everyone knows that Petaluma is a creepy, scary town.
While we may be condescending hippies here in Sebastopol at least we are not yukky and dirty. But I'll give them a break in Pet for having an awesome whole foods. We don't have room for a big co-op. The cramped quarters at Sebastopol Whole Foods have caused some horrible scenes. Seems almost a fire danger in there.

[pearl g]

Kathy,
I'm truly sorry to have offended with my venting.
I should have made it clear that it is only my personal opinion that Petaluma is extremely creepy and has an underlying scary vibe. Sometimes when I am hiding behind a computer I tend to be less polite than in person. Obviously to say "everyone knows it" was reckless and not thought out. Again, please accept my apology. My opinion of your town should not have even been brought up.
Now having said that, the real issue is Whole Foods. Petaluma has an excellent whole foods and I choose it over Sebastopol's however, the Petaluma Grocery Outlet is even better.
Sincerely, Troll in Recovery.

[elienos]

Wow, this board has taught me something: My friends and I had always thought something just wasn't right with Sebastopol. I thought maybe it was a self-righteous, airy fairy, white-middleclass mono-culture with no real heart/center. Now I am starting to think it is even worse. But the above is just my opinion. Don't worry Kathy. We know what hippies used to be about, and it wasn't this high school silliness. Petaluma is much better than Sebastopol (my opinion). I use to be a substitute teacher, and having subbed in highschools throughout Sonoma, Petaluma and Sebastopol, the kids in Petaluma are definitely the most conscious which is a good reflection of the community.

When I moved from Big Sur, I considered Seb. I am glad I picked Petaluma.

It has become quite obvious that Sebastopol folks want this board to themselves, so maybe it is time we bowed out.



Kathy,
I'm truly sorry to have offended with my venting.
I should have made it clear that it is only my personal opinion that Petaluma is extremely creepy and has an underlying scary vibe. Sometimes when I am hiding behind a computer I tend to be less polite than in person. Obviously to say "everyone knows it" was reckless and not thought out. Again, please accept my apology. My opinion of your town should not have even been brought up.
Now having said that, the real issue is Whole Foods. Petaluma has an excellent whole foods and I choose it over Sebastopol's however, the Petaluma Grocery Outlet is even better.
Sincerely, Troll in Recovery.

[elienos]

Ooops sorry about that. I know there are plenty of good folks in Sebastopol. I was even at a friends party in Sebastopol a couple weeks ago. It is just that there are just enough of the other type to make the whole city seem icky and pretentious to me.

[elienos]

Damn! I am sorry again. Venting. I just can't keep my mouth shut. I take it all back.

[pearl g]

I said I was sorry. And meant it Jeez!
I'll say it again. I shouldn't have said those mean things.

[katkatf]

Pearl, thank you, thank you, thank you. Your gracious and beautiful apology is lovingly accepted. My opinion of you has skyrocketed! I am very impressed by your willingness to look at what you said and the impact it had on others (me :wink: ), and then to own it. I am now very glad that I didn't include some of what I had originally typed in my first response to you. You have reinforced for me that if I respond with my feelings and make it about me, I am much more likely to be met with respect and humanness. On the other hand, my experience tells me that when I respond with hate and anger, shaming and blame, all I get is more of the same.

Pearl, you are a class act and your recovery from trolldom is coming along beautifully. :thumbsup:

With gratitude,
Kathy


Kathy,
I'm truly sorry to have offended with my venting.
I should have made it clear that it is only my personal opinion that Petaluma is extremely creepy and has an underlying scary vibe. Sometimes when I am hiding behind a computer I tend to be less polite than in person. Obviously to say "everyone knows it" was reckless and not thought out. Again, please accept my apology. My opinion of your town should not have even been brought up.
Now having said that, the real issue is Whole Foods. Petaluma has an excellent whole foods and I choose it over Sebastopol's however, the Petaluma Grocery Outlet is even better.
Sincerely, Troll in Recovery.

[pearl g]

Yeah, it's weird. Sebastopol doesn't have the nice laid back feeling of Petaluma.
But laid back people don't necessarily mean laid back police, schools, shopkeepers etc. Do you love Pet. Grocery Outlet as much as I do?
I'm willing to admit that for a town it's size, Petaluma could be 1000% worse.
Maybe Sebastopol has made me too narrow minded. Let's mend fences and shop in Petaluma. Hospice thrift, the pet. goodwill store grocery outlet and yes Whole foods with it's endless free samples and huge fish counter.

[elienos]

I said I was sorry. And meant it Jeez!
I'll say it again. I shouldn't have said those mean things.

Okay. I shouldn't have used your restatement of your negative opinion as an excuse to vent my own opinions. Im sorry too.

[pearl g]

Ive grown to love wacco. It's a great place to vent. Here is Sebastopol, we really are a bunch of complainy-heads. It's hard to post an opinion and try not to be negative. Now that I'm in my forties, a place like wacco helps me achieve enlightenment on a daily basis. I still believe we bring our bad moods into situations like the incident at whole foods where it seems everyone became rude and hyper-sensitive in a typical Sebastopol fashion. We arent used to people being boisterous and obnoxious.

[alanora]

I would like to remind us that the divisions between parts of the same land are often arbitrary, or based on geographical features, or numbers of registered republicans, or other nonsense, and I would urge us to have a more global outlook while shopping locally. Remember, we're all in this thing together. We are one. It is all good and all G-d. Cliches all, I hope the meaning is not lost. Divisions are arbitrarily, often artificially, made by humans, and can be the cause of war, as we defend our little part. I am again reminded of color war at childrens' summer camp where children of a group are divided into groups for competition, which turns fierce immediately. Could we please avoid the waste of misplacement of valuable energies, and instead cooperate and encourage one another. We are consciously choosing adults now.......right?


I'm reading this and it's dawning on me you didn't say which Whole Foods.

Mean while as the West County folks we are we are responding as if it were Sebastopol and the fact is it "sounds" like it is Petaluma's.

Now assuming I am right you may want to choose your communities wiser. Petaluma is not a very conscious or aware community by majority and certainly not progressive and to expect a conscious and progressive response from the store or those shopping there is ridiculous. It's like expecting a 2 year old to drive. They just don't have the ability but give them 18 years and they may get there.

I cannot imagine that same situation in Sebastopol without an immediate acknowledgment not only from staff but from shoppers.

Maybe you should shop in Sebastopol. It's a much more enlightened and enjoyable experience.

Live where you must; shop and embrace community where you choose!

[theindependenteye]

Friends—

In my personal, humble, and entirely subjective opinion, this thread has evolved into the silliest yet seen on Wacco.

The idea that a town is scummy because hippies or truck drivers live there, or that you're going to get a higher percentage of rude incidents in one or the other, or that a town's ultimate worth is defined by its demographics or the size of its Whole Foods is a revelation to me. I thought it had to do more with uncollected garbage, drive-by shootings, joblessness, political corruption, all that small stuff.

I always thought the most wretched town in America was the one I escaped from as a teenager, but then that's another story.

Peace & joy—
Conrad

[MsTerry]

LMFAO
you see what happens when MsTerry stays out of it.............

[decterlove]

Very Amusing. When I saw Conrad's comment below at the top of the thread, I thought...well, it's not that silly! Certainly not as silly as some posts I've seen in the past....like the ping pong matches between thePhiant and WillieLumpLump and others! But then I scrolled down and saw like 15 posts since I checked it last night at midnight! Holy Demographics, Robin!

I think it's actually a rather interesting and revealing discussion. And by the way, very gracious apologies were given as well.

I've been in the North Bay since 1980, starting up in Middletown at Harbin Hot Springs for six years. I've been going to Sebastopol since the mid 80s and took Jane Golden's tai chi classes on High Street for several years. I used to absolutely love getting over to S-town. Andy's Market, the Copperfields and Rosemary's Garden on Main St, the lovely rural roads, Apple Energy, Laguna....used to be my favorite town possibly.

But S-town has changed just like I've changed, and I didn't get over there much at all for about 5 years. This year I've biked and bused over there maybe 5 times....and enjoyed it each time very much. The Whole Foods is cramped, I'm not a Hippie anymore, but I do find it very refreshing that some people still are and it an exceptionally relaxed and friendly town, I think, in general.

Petaluma I really just discovered maybe 10 years ago for real...used to be that when I was driving down from Lake County or Calistoga, if I got as far as Petaluma, I was likely going to Marin or Sf and didn't linger much. I think P-town was a real cowtown when S-town was in the midst of it's real urban renaissance 20 years ago. P-town started getting interesting 10 or 15 years ago, and while it still has immense charm for me....it's gotten a bit glossy in spots, especially in the historic district where I lived for 4 years.

After I moved over there in 2002, I counted over 20 small businesses that went out of business in the subsequent 2 years!!!! The historic neighborhood which I absolutely (and of course a bit naively...) delighted in walking thru before I moved over because of it's incredibly DIVERSITY, became a monoculture of real estate values and little green lawns. It was amazing to watch how rapidly each aspect changed. And lots of interesting people sold their overly valued homes of course and moved away.

However, I do like the new Theatre District and I am a freak about the Shollenberger Wetlands. John Crowley has done a tremendous service in creating structures which bring people together and there are a great deal of interesting people who still live and are still moving to, P-town. And the Ancient (by west coast standards, of course) Architecture that survived the 1906 Earthquake still absolutely delights my soul on a sunny morning.

That said, there is a little "dark" energy in the town also. I think it's partly the River Dreck....towns that spring up around waterways are pretty wild in their early days and generate lots of astral dreck that maybe lingers down through generations. There is certainly an element of hard drug energy (heroin? I dunno...) that you run into semi-frequently, especially downtown. The tragedy of Polly Klass still remains a dark spot in the town's Americana psyche, there's a lot of fights on Kentucky Street after the bars get out on Saturday nights, and frankly the little square next to Starbucks is always a bit drecky to walk through, maybe in part to the cigarette smoking.

That said, P-town has remained my favorite town so far in the New Millenium. I like San Rafael second best. Mill Valley and Fairfax which used to rate very highly have dropped right off my list. And Sebastopol, while not number one....well, I'm still glad it's still around and you can see tie dye somewhere in these Post Bush, Pre Barack, Dark and Dangerous Times.

ps....and as far as Whole Foods is concerned....yeah, the Sebastopol one kinda sucks....used to be real nice in it's Food for Thought incarnation, the one in Petaluma is great, and sitting outside the one in Sonoma now is like the best Whole Foods experience around. In fact, it's about the only thing I like about Sonoma at this point, but don't get me started on Slo-town.






Friends—

In my personal, humble, and entirely subjective opinion, this thread has evolved into the silliest yet seen on Wacco.
Peace & joy—
Conrad

[boomerfashion]

Who is the "everybody" who knows that Petaluma is "creepy and scary"? (By the way, what exactly scares you about the town?) It is almost laughable, if it weren't so intolerant to claim that people in Petaluma are "yukky and dirty". Lucky for them you will "give them a break" for their "awesome" Whole Foods.

When I read Shellebelle's original post, I, too, was put off by the condescending tone but let it go (or so I imagined). I have to admit, Pearl, I find your post small minded and lacking information that is grounded in reality.

Have you ever been to Petaluma?


What's so bad about what Shellebelle wrote?
Everyone knows that Petaluma is a creepy, scary town.
While we may be condescending hippies here in Sebastopol at least we are not yukky and dirty. But I'll give them a break in Pet for having an awesome whole foods. We don't have room for a big co-op. The cramped quarters at Sebastopol Whole Foods have caused some horrible scenes. Seems almost a fire danger in there.

[dhunigirl]

I used to live around the corner from this Whole Foods in Petaluma. I spent way too much money on great lunches and bought items for my business there. One day when I was in shopping I was told that I had been warned too many times (about what I will never know) and that if I did not leave immediately the police would be called.

I said I have no idea what you are talking about and was rudely told "Nice Try!!) at that point I left my cart and went home quite upset.

About 20 minites later a policeman showed up at my door. He was following up on a trespassing complaint from Whole Foods.

I explained to him what happened. He said he was just doing his job in advising me not to return to Whole Foods ever again.

Needless to say, I have not.
Mimi

[dragonfly]

Mimi, that sounds quite horrifying. Did you ever find out what the accusations were? I find Whole Foods stores everywhere to be quite snooty and overpriced anyway. I prefer to shop at Trader Joes in Petaluma and elsewhere, where they actually appreciate us shoppers and are always friendly and helpful, with prices that are much more affordable. I hope you are on the road to healing from that hurtful experience..........

Best Wishes,
Toresa


I used to live around the corner from this Whole Foods in Petaluma. I spent way too much money on great lunches and bought items for my business there. One day when I was in shopping I was told that I had been warned too many times (about what I will never know) and that if I did not leave immediately the police would be called.

I said I have no idea what you are talking about and was rudely told "Nice Try!!) at that point I left my cart and went home quite upset.

About 20 minites later a policeman showed up at my door. He was following up on a trespassing complaint from Whole Foods.

I explained to him what happened. He said he was just doing his job in advising me not to return to Whole Foods ever again.

Needless to say, I have not.
Mimi

[nikki]

I used to live around the corner from this Whole Foods in Petaluma. I spent way too much money on great lunches and bought items for my business there. One day when I was in shopping I was told that I had been warned too many times (about what I will never know) and that if I did not leave immediately the police would be called.

I said I have no idea what you are talking about and was rudely told "Nice Try!!) at that point I left my cart and went home quite upset.

About 20 minites later a policeman showed up at my door. He was following up on a trespassing complaint from Whole Foods.

I explained to him what happened. He said he was just doing his job in advising me not to return to Whole Foods ever again.

Needless to say, I have not.
Mimi


What an awful experience for you! I wonder if they thought you were snacking , like tasting from the bulk items. I know they have kicked people out for that. Very sad. It started out as a great concept and now it's just like any other big business. I worked over a year for them in Sebastopol and it was a lousy job and shitty pay. They are not what they advertise themselves as. Happy shopping in other places. nikki

[Photoguy]

Help! I hope some one gets this. I am being held against my will in a Wholefoods warehouse. There are about 6 of us locked in here. I was caught putting something back on a wrong shelf, others for snacking. We have all been blindfolded, roughed up, then thrown in the back of a Wholefoods van and taken here. There is no water and we are being forced to change the expiration dates on outdated organic dairy products. Some one is com

[theindependenteye]

>>Help! I hope some one gets this. I am being held against my will in a Wholefoods warehouse. There are about 6 of us locked in here. I was caught putting something back on a wrong shelf, others for snacking. We have all been blindfolded, roughed up, then thrown in the back of a Wholefoods van and taken here. There is no water and we are being forced to change the expiration dates on outdated organic dairy products. Some one is com...

No sympathy here, buddy. It was your choice to shop there, and now you'll really see what they mean by "organic." Wait'll they get to the waterboarding: they do it with smoothies.

-Conrad

[ladybug5]

Your so cute. Thanks for not taking this incident so
seriously! With all the important things going on in the
world..you think people would not make this a federal case. I say enjoy the water boarding or go shop at Safeway with the stepford cashiers.
jody



>>Help! I hope some one gets this. I am being held against my will in a Wholefoods warehouse. There are about 6 of us locked in here. I was caught putting something back on a wrong shelf, others for snacking. We have all been blindfolded, roughed up, then thrown in the back of a Wholefoods van and taken here. There is no water and we are being forced to change the expiration dates on outdated organic dairy products. Some one is com...

No sympathy here, buddy. It was your choice to shop there, and now you'll really see what they mean by "organic." Wait'll they get to the waterboarding: they do it with smoothies.

-Conrad

[Barry]

... or go shop at Safeway with the stepford cashiers.
:lol2:

[dandss1]

Here's a logical solution for you. If ya don't like the place don't shop there!

End of story.

[Sara S]

I think you mean "self-righteous" here; righteous is the correct way to behave.


Is everyone in Sebastopol THIS righteous and condescending??

[Dixon]

What an awful experience for you! I wonder if they thought you were snacking , like tasting from the bulk items. I know they have kicked people out for that. Very sad...

Let's be clear on something. "Snacking" (eating something without paying and without permission) is stealing. People may try to justify it by objecting that they're only eating a little, but with thousands of people doing it, it adds up to a financial loss which, of course, gets passed on to the customers, so those who "snack" end up ripping off everyone who shops there. In other words, if you "snack", I pay for your snacking, and I resent that. It's not the (relatively small) amount of money; it's the principle of the thing. It's disrespectful to the store and to the other customers.

Some will say that they're tasting to see if they want to buy, but mostly that's bullshit; otherwise they wouldn't call it "snacking"! Anyway, we have no right to do such tasting, as it's stealing. So please, folks, go to some store that has an honor-system pay-for-a-taste arrangement, as some stores do, or persuade your fave stores to adopt such a system so you can do your snacking ethically, or exercise a little self-restraint and simply refrain from these little thefts.

And to those who still insist on their "right" to "snack": Please post your home address so that I and others may drop by and snack when we feel like it.

Dixon

[bellastar]

I feel like I have to step in here and defend Whole Foods. I got a job at the (Sebastopol) location about 3 1/2 years ago. I figured that after I got hired and worked there awhile I would discover the seedy underbelly-the truth behind the hype etc. That never happened. What I have found is that while yes, Whole Foods is a corporation and yes, they do absorb local natural foods stores as they grow, it is made up of thousands of progressively- minded, eco-concious workers who are simply trying to advocate for the organic movement, animal rights, waste reduction and support of small, local farmers and producers. The fact is that Whole Foods can do these things on a national level because of the fact that they are so large. Andy's is great - I shop there too. But can Andy's affect change on a national level? Can Bill's Farm Basket influence legislation on the way livestock are treated? I'm not saying WF is "better" than these little guys. But it's an important point. Thanks for listening.:):

[Braggi]

This is a reply to this whole thread, not to any individual post.

While I'd like to see Community Market buy the Whole Foods store (or the whole chain) and run it in similar fashion (or Anstead's from Healdsburg, for that matter) I do appreciate what Whole Foods does right.

I know I can run in there on the way to a potluck and get something well prepared from great ingredients that people won't be afraid to eat. That's a value I won't get at some of the bigger chain stores. As long as I'm emotionally and financially prepared for the consequences, I can get good quality stuff at Whole Foods and I won't worry about getting a lemon when I wanted pears (if you know what I mean).

Sure you'll pay full price but you'll get your money's worth to some degree. It's a clean, full featured, well organized store featuring high quality products.

That's not such a bad thing.

-Jeff

[Edit: funny that the previous post and my post above were being written at the same time.]

[lasolivas]

:lol2:
!Stepford cashiers at Safeway?? I shop Safeway because it's union, maybe the only grocery store in town that is union. Their workers may not be ready to pose for the cover of Yoga Journal, but they might be closer to achieving emancipation and enlightenment.

[Braggi]

... Their workers may not be ready to pose for the cover of Yoga Journal, but they might be closer to achieving emancipation and enlightenment.

Hey, Safeway in Healdsburg has some nice looking people ...

I can see it now: Playboy: The Girls of Safeway!

Never mind.

-Jeff

[Dixon]

!Stepford cashiers at Safeway?? I shop Safeway because it's union, maybe the only grocery store in town that is union. Their workers may not be ready to pose for the cover of Yoga Journal, but they might be closer to achieving emancipation and enlightenment.

I think everything you're saying is probably true, but it seems irrelevant to the "Stepford cashiers" joke (which I thought was hilarious, BTW--great line, Jody!). My understanding of the Stepford concept (a reference to the book and movie The Stepford Wives) is that it refers to pleasant behavior that seems robotically programmed, such as when the poor Safeway cashiers are required to try to create the illusion of non-corporate, small-town familiarity by addressing us by name (which they read off their computers because they don't know us). I've always felt bad for employees who are required to play the cynical corporate game of feigning phony friendliness by robotically repeating things like "Thank you for shopping at K-Mart" thousands of times a day. I think that's what the Stepford joke refers to, not the other stuff you mention.

[Sylph]

I think everything you're saying is probably true, but it seems irrelevant to the "Stepford cashiers" joke (which I thought was hilarious, BTW--great line, Jody!). My understanding of the Stepford concept (a reference to the book and movie The Stepford Wives) is that it refers to pleasant behavior that seems robotically programmed, such as when the poor Safeway cashiers are required to try to create the illusion of non-corporate, small-town familiarity by addressing us by name (which they read off their computers because they don't know us). I've always felt bad for employees who are required to play the cynical corporate game of feigning phony friendliness by robotically repeating things like "Thank you for shopping at K-Mart" thousands of times a day. I think that's what the Stepford joke refers to, not the other stuff you mention.
I feel for them, too...they are constantly being evaluated by the corporation to make sure they are being friendly enough... but not too chatty! Don't hold up the line! (I used to have a friend who worked at Safeway).
My food comes from Andy's, Lucky's, Safeway, Costco and Trader Joes, with the occasional foray to a farmer's market, when I remember. (My homegrown tomatoes are history, now). I only go to Whole Foods for something exotic, or to indulge in freshly made soup or salad. I am way too cheap to fork out big bucks for the beautiful produce there.

[Sara S]

Yes, indeed; when the Guerneville Safeway instituted the policy of having all employees greet shoppers, I filled out one of their "comment" cards and told them that when I came in the store, I was trying to remember what I wanted to buy, and I really didn't want to have to tell every employee how I was feeling. (Curmudgeon.)


I think everything you're saying is probably true, but it seems irrelevant to the "Stepford cashiers" joke (which I thought was hilarious, BTW--great line, Jody!). My understanding of the Stepford concept (a reference to the book and movie The Stepford Wives) is that it refers to pleasant behavior that seems robotically programmed, such as when the poor Safeway cashiers are required to try to create the illusion of non-corporate, small-town familiarity by addressing us by name (which they read off their computers because they don't know us). I've always felt bad for employees who are required to play the cynical corporate game of feigning phony friendliness by robotically repeating things like "Thank you for shopping at K-Mart" thousands of times a day. I think that's what the Stepford joke refers to, not the other stuff you mention.

[nurturetruth]

October 31st

I had a rather interesting "Incident" at Wholy Foods this morning. However mine was more on the bizarre experience rather than an unpleasant one.

Perhaps if I had had my green tea or yerbe' mate prior to entering Whole Foods this morning, I would have been a bit more grounded to handle the energy.

Most all of the employees were all dressed up in their Halloween Attire and even some zombies were wandering around. Yet, I turn around the corner and see Christmas ornaments and decorations on display that weren't there yesterday! I turn another corner and see the Apple Cider display.
In the deli, there is turkey , gravy and cranberry sauce.
And then, a dressed up goblin kid passes by me humming "Tis the Season" !
I felt as if I was in another world.

Tis strange because I can actually recall the good ole days when Christmas season didn't commercially start until after thanksgiving.

I was hoping that corporate stores/businesses would at least wait until Nov. 1st to start the holiday season as to allow us to enjoy our moments in Halloween.

Though now, it seems that October 31st is the one day out of the year we can actually honor and get excited about all 3 celebrations: halloween,thanksgiving and xmas.

Hope everyone had a good Halloween!

https://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315/kimandchris2/Cartoons/Halloween%20Cartoons/MerryThanksgivoween.jpg

[Sylph]

I love the cartoon...a turkey pulling Santa in the sleigh, etc!

[Reuben Weinzveg]

Let's just take this as another reason to shop locally. Olivers, Andy's, Imwalle Gardens are all better options that the corporate behemoth that Whole Foods has become.

Reduce your carbon footprint by shopping where the sources of products have a better chance of being local and the ownership is local and they feel a part of our community.

Reuben

Greetings!

As I was eating this morning at Whole Foods, three men were talking loudly in the inside eating area. As another women sat down to eat, one of them became very loud as he read to his friends. She politely asked him to quiet down and he became belligerent and yelled at her to leave!

I turned around and requested for him to please stop yelling. His hostility increased and he began yelling at me. Both the other woman and myself felt threatened, immediately left the area and told staff members, who promptly called the manager. Ten minutes later the assistant manger Clarke Pomeroy saunters to the front of the store.

The other woman and I were noticably upset, standing w/ our breakfasts in our hands and quickly told him what had happened. Clarke Pomeroy walked over to the three men and spent the next 30 minutes laughing and joking with them! He completely believed their lies that we were friends who were yelling at them! When he spoke with us, Clarke Pomeroy simply shrugged it off and did not want to do anything!

We and other people who were there are appalled that someone who was belligerent and hostile to two people was not asked to leave!
I have called the corporate office (510) 428-7400 ext. #7067 and no one has returned my calls. Needless to say, I will not shop there any more.

Perhaps it is time for Whole Foods to be replaced by a community food co-op. I had belonged to People's in the Ocean Beach area of San Diego for many years and feel that is an excellent model among several others.

Thank you for reading this!

Sincerely, Larysa

[ChristineL]

At this point in time the Union only costs Safeway Employees union fees and does little for them. When the Guerneville Safeway "updated" its facility a couple of years ago they paid for it by cutting back employee hours...The Union thought it was absolutely fine that employees who normally worked 35 to 40 hours a week were cut back to 24 hours a week with no information as to how long this would last. Needless to say, quite a few employees quit as they could not support themselves on, in many cases, less than $200.00 a week.

If you're going to shop according to how well employees are paid and treated, that would be G&G Market and CosCo. If there are others that pay a living wage and offer decent benefits, please let us know. I do try to give most of my support to businesses who do. That's why I never, no matter how broke I am, shop at WalMart.



!Stepford cashiers at Safeway?? I shop Safeway because it's union, maybe the only grocery store in town that is union. Their workers may not be ready to pose for the cover of Yoga Journal, but they might be closer to achieving emancipation and enlightenment.

[MsTerry]

Christine,
Are you saying that people are paying union dues to get minimum wages? Because that is what $200 a week adds up to.
I understand that the cashiers are paid in the $15-25 range DOE.


.The Union thought it was absolutely fine that employees who normally worked 35 to 40 hours a week were cut back to 24 hours a week with no information as to how long this would last. Needless to say, quite a few employees quit as they could not support themselves on, in many cases, less than $200.00 a week.

[miz editor]

Not to mention G&G Market, a truly independent store, plenty of organics and a great, genuine, and friendly atmosphere (snotty, speedy types not allowed, it seems). Been around for 45 years despite the best efforts of the Corps. And also Andy's Produce. I manage nicely w/o WF or other Corps. stores: it's easy!


Let's just take this as another reason to shop locally. Olivers, Andy's, Imwalle Gardens are all better options that the corporate behemoth that Whole Foods has become.

Reduce your carbon footprint by shopping where the sources of products have a better chance of being local and the ownership is local and they feel a part of our community.

Reuben

[ChristineL]

Cashiers that have been with Safeway for a lot of years are making decent wages. Otherwise, yes...wages now start at $8.00/hr. and raises are given in very small increments. Basically, yes, they are paying union dues in order to get little above minimum wage. The benefits package is not that great either.



Christine,
Are you saying that people are paying union dues to get minimum wages? Because that is what $200 a week adds up to.
I understand that the cashiers are paid in the $15-25 range DOE.

[msfiddlestix]

Friends—

In my personal, humble, and entirely subjective opinion, this thread has evolved into the silliest yet seen on Wacco.

The idea that a town is scummy because hippies or truck drivers live there, or that you're going to get a higher percentage of rude incidents in one or the other, or that a town's ultimate worth is defined by its demographics or the size of its Whole Foods is a revelation to me. I thought it had to do more with uncollected garbage, drive-by shootings, joblessness, political corruption, all that small stuff.

I always thought the most wretched town in America was the one I escaped from as a teenager, but then that's another story.

Peace & joy—
Conrad


Amen to that Sir... :applause:

[ChristineL]

A long time ago I read one of those little wise anecdotes/short story meant to make you think....I may not have the exact wording, but it went pretty much as follows:

An old woman was gathering wood for her fireplace when a young man just arriving in town stopped and asked how it was to live in this town and what the people were like. She asked him what the people in the last town he lived in were like. He said they were selfish, rude, covetous, dishonest, etc. She then responded; "You'll find the people here to be the same." She continued on her way home and was stopped by another young man asking the same question. She asked what the people were like in the last town he lived in. He said they were kind, generous, courteous, etc. She responded; "You'll find the people here to be the same."

Maybe, it's partly about the people we bring to us through our own expectations and behavior. Just something to think about...



What's so bad about what Shellebelle wrote?
Everyone knows that Petaluma is a creepy, scary town.
While we may be condescending hippies here in Sebastopol at least we are not yukky and dirty. But I'll give them a break in Pet for having an awesome whole foods. We don't have room for a big co-op. The cramped quarters at Sebastopol Whole Foods have caused some horrible scenes. Seems almost a fire danger in there.

[ChristineL]

Something else I forgot to mention; during the construction inside the Guerneville Safeway, employees were required to continue working. Chemicals were used to glue down the floor tiles that made me sick during five minutes of shopping, we won't even talk about the dust created by the cutting of tile and other materials. Half the employees where sick during their shifts. The Union did not intercede on behalf of employee safety.


Christine,
Are you saying that people are paying union dues to get minimum wages? Because that is what $200 a week adds up to.
I understand that the cashiers are paid in the $15-25 range DOE.

[decterlove]

I've always like G&Gs in Santa Rosa and when they opened up their Petaluma store, thought it was pretty cool too. (east side near JC)

But I was in there a few months ago and when I tried to buy a pound of rice and something else, the check out guy couldn't find the code on the rice. I told him it was like $1.50 a lb or something and he didn't trust me so he sent another clerk to confirm my correct price. Then, instead of checking me out, he delayed the process again with some bs......and I just said "skip it, Jack" and walked out. It was pretty irritating and very unusual behavior to find in a market.

Andy's is great tho....only place I've ever seen Buffalo Nuts....I like to send a couple of them with Xmas gifts....such a bizarre shape.


Not to mention G&G Market, a truly independent store, plenty of organics and a great, genuine, and friendly atmosphere (snotty, speedy types not allowed, it seems).

[MsTerry]

Yes, I can see that could be bothersome, but what really bothers me is that no one is looking out for the poor guys who are actually gluing those tiles. They've got their sniffer right in to that toxic plume. Did they get sick?


Something else I forgot to mention; during the construction inside the Guerneville Safeway, employees were required to continue working. Chemicals were used to glue down the floor tiles that made me sick during five minutes of shopping, we won't even talk about the dust created by the cutting of tile and other materials. Half the employees where sick during their shifts. The Union did not intercede on behalf of employee safety.

[ChristineL]

They could at least wear protective masks. I do agree with you that no-one seemed to care about their work environment. You would, however, be surprised how many construction people choose not to wear protective gear supplied to them. I can't say whether most of them were choosing to not use protective gear supplied to them, or were not given any.




Yes, I can see that could be bothersome, but what really bothers me is that no one is looking out for the poor guys who are actually gluing those tiles. They've got their sniffer right in to that toxic plume. Did they get sick?

[Barry]

Andy's is great tho....only place I've ever seen Buffalo Nuts....I like to send a couple of them with Xmas gifts....such a bizarre shape.

The Buffalo Nuts discussion has been moved to the Buffalo Nuts thread (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44624).

[lynn]

You asked him to stop yelling. That is all you could do. Now you must try to let it go. Some people are loud and even seem "belligerent". We must try to respect that obnoxious people don't know how annoying they are. Take a lesson from New Yorkers and try to pay more attention to yourself. Focus inward. If those guys are really just three loud dummies and guy working at whole foods is a dummy, then you should be able to let it go easily.

Here's a logical solution for you. If ya don't like the place don't shop there!
End of story.

===================

BS!...Screw New York, and 'going inward'...

These are the kinds of attitudes that really make me want to scream!...

No wonder so many people are growing up to be bratty, self-headed idiot jerks in public...

It's completely beyond me how this selfish...It's okay to be a total jerk in public attitude has become so okay with so many people...

Ya' know what...It ain't okay with me!...And I'm gonna' let ya' know it if I'm sharin' public space with you, and you are bein' an asshole...

There use to be this thing called 'civility'...Unfortunately, the jerks in this store never learned it...and neither did the manager...And seems to completely fly over the heads of some people on this board...(If you're parenting...I don't want to be around you or your kids in public)

Sure people have good times and talk loud...But, there is certainly a difference between simply doing that...And bein' an idiot jerkoff to someone who asks politely for you to 'quiet down'...

And not everyplace is New York either - or 'should' be...So, how about takin' into consideration...the differences in the places you are in...

It's not just 'your' space, and 'their' space...It's shared public space...And if you are bein' loud and obnoxious enough to bother someone who is trying to have a decent experience eating their breakfast, or lunch...Then have some consideration, and either honor their request, or move 'the gang' outside - or elsewhere...

["Mad" Miles]

BS!...Screw New York, and 'going inward'...

These are the kinds of attitudes that really make me want to scream!...

No wonder so many people are growing up to be bratty, self-headed idiot jerks in public...

It's completely beyond me how this selfish...It's okay to be a total jerk in public attitude has become so okay with so many people...

Ya' know what...It ain't okay with me!...And I'm gonna' let ya' know it if I'm sharin' public space with you, and you are bein' an asshole...

There use to be this thing called 'civility'...Unfortunately, the jerks in this store never learned it...and neither did the manager...And seems to completely fly over the heads of some people on this board...(If you're parenting...I don't want to be around you or your kids in public)

Sure people have good times and talk loud...But, there is certainly a difference between simply doing that...And bein' an idiot jerkoff to someone who asks politely for you to 'quiet down'...

And not everyplace is New York either - or 'should' be...So, how about takin' into consideration...the differences in the places you are in...

It's not just 'your' space, and 'their' space...It's shared public space...And if you are bein' loud and obnoxious enough to bother someone who is trying to have a decent experience eating their breakfast, or lunch...Then have some consideration, and either honor their request, or move 'the gang' outside - or elsewhere...

Hey Lynn, et al,

Brava Lynn!

While I may completely disagree with you on issues surrounding the "global warming caused by human activity" question, on this matter we are on the same page. Thanks for expressing yourself so clearly and forcefully.

Bullies back down when stood up to, they seek weakness and opportunity when left alone. A recent study has shown they do what they do because it enhances their own endorphin secretion, i.e. they're enjoying themselves.

Those of us who care about justice need to confront them, appropriately, whenever and wherever the need arises.

Happy foggy Sunday,

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[MsTerry]

Judging from the language you use, a confrontation with you would neither be civil nor considerate.
Another incident in the making it seems, where others might describe you as a "bratty, self-headed idiot jerk"?



BS!...Screw New York, and 'going inward'...
No wonder so many people are growing up to be bratty, self-headed idiot jerks in public...

It's completely beyond me how this selfish...It's okay to be a total jerk in public attitude has become so okay with so many people...

Ya' know what...It ain't okay with me!...And I'm gonna' let ya' know it if I'm sharin' public space with you, and you are bein' an asshole...

[elienos]

I agree. It really isn't the people that are jerks in public that endanger us. it is the ones who are completely cordial in public and scheme and act like jerks behind closed doors that we ought to be worried about.

If Whole Foods doesn't do anything about it, then, well it is their store. Don't go back. If it is in a public space, then give em a piece of your mind and then get over it. So what if we are a species that has yet to completely evolve from monkeys. At least rape isn't legal, like it was in parts on Europe when this country was being colonized.

Are we still on this topic? Is this still the silliest thread ever?


Judging from the language you use, a confrontation with you would neither be civil nor considerate.
Another incident in the making it seems, where others might describe you as a "bratty, self-headed idiot jerk"?

[tiger]

there are many good reasons for having a co-op. I'd love to see more of them in this county. Only one I am aware of is in Santa Rosa.
Peace,
Tiger


Greetings!

As I was eating this morning at Whole Foods, three men were talking loudly in the inside eating area. As another women sat down to eat, one of them became very loud as he read to his friends. She politely asked him to quiet down and he became belligerent and yelled at her to leave!

I turned around and requested for him to please stop yelling. His hostility increased and he began yelling at me. Both the other woman and myself felt threatened, immediately left the area and told staff members, who promptly called the manager. Ten minutes later the assistant manger Clarke Pomeroy saunters to the front of the store.

The other woman and I were noticably upset, standing w/ our breakfasts in our hands and quickly told him what had happened. Clarke Pomeroy walked over to the three men and spent the next 30 minutes laughing and joking with them! He completely believed their lies that we were friends who were yelling at them! When he spoke with us, Clarke Pomeroy simply shrugged it off and did not want to do anything!

We and other people who were there are appalled that someone who was belligerent and hostile to two people was not asked to leave!
I have called the corporate office (510) 428-7400 ext. #7067 and no one has returned my calls. Needless to say, I will not shop there any more.

Perhaps it is time for Whole Foods to be replaced by a community food co-op. I had belonged to People's in the Ocean Beach area of San Diego for many years and feel that is an excellent model among several others.

Thank you for reading this!

Sincerely, Larysa

[boomerfashion]

Perhaps not the silliest EVER, but pretty incredible that we are still talking about it.


I agree. It really isn't the people that are jerks in public that endanger us. it is the ones who are completely cordial in public and scheme and act like jerks behind closed doors that we ought to be worried about.

If Whole Foods doesn't do anything about it, then, well it is their store. Don't go back. If it is in a public space, then give em a piece of your mind and then get over it. So what if we are a species that has yet to completely evolve from monkeys. At least rape isn't legal, like it was in parts on Europe when this country was being colonized.

Are we still on this topic? Is this still the silliest thread ever?

[Dixon]

Well, keeping in mind the fact that we've only heard Larysa's side of the story, and it may be that if I'd been there I wouldn't have agreed that the guys were too loud, that perhaps I'd have thought Larysa was oversensitive instead, or that she addressed the guys in a disrespectful way that aggravated the situation, and also recognizing that there's a large grey area in which reasonable people can disagree about what behaviors are obnoxious, and also understanding that Larysa's account of the incident might be totally true...

I must say that I'm substantially in agreement with Lynn's rant. I too am tired of the thousand and one little indignities I'm subjected to in public, whether it's inconsiderate drivers, rude cigarette smokers, or, as in this case, inappropriate loudness.

The loudness issue especially pushes my buttons when watching a movie or trying to listen to music. One example: a few months ago I caught the famed German electronic music duo Cluster in San Francisco. There were lots of people in the audience who apparently were there to chatter--loudly--instead of listening to the music. It was particularly bad during the quiet musical passages, which were substantially ruined by the chatter. I wanted to wade into the crowd with a machete and teach them some manners. What kinda sense does it make to spend your hard-earned $$ on a concert, only to chatter through it instead of listening to the music? Grrrrrrrrr! I suspect that alcohol was partly responsible for loosening these dipshits' tongues. I wish booze were banned from such events.

Anyhow, I just wanted to echo Lynn's anger over the obnoxious behaviors we're so often subjected to in public.


BS!...Screw New York, and 'going inward'...

These are the kinds of attitudes that really make me want to scream!...

No wonder so many people are growing up to be bratty, self-headed idiot jerks in public...

It's completely beyond me how this selfish...It's okay to be a total jerk in public attitude has become so okay with so many people...

Ya' know what...It ain't okay with me!...And I'm gonna' let ya' know it if I'm sharin' public space with you, and you are bein' an asshole...

There use to be this thing called 'civility'...Unfortunately, the jerks in this store never learned it...and neither did the manager...And seems to completely fly over the heads of some people on this board...(If you're parenting...I don't want to be around you or your kids in public)

Sure people have good times and talk loud...But, there is certainly a difference between simply doing that...And bein' an idiot jerkoff to someone who asks politely for you to 'quiet down'...

And not everyplace is New York either - or 'should' be...So, how about takin' into consideration...the differences in the places you are in...

It's not just 'your' space, and 'their' space...It's shared public space...And if you are bein' loud and obnoxious enough to bother someone who is trying to have a decent experience eating their breakfast, or lunch...Then have some consideration, and either honor their request, or move 'the gang' outside - or elsewhere...

[MsTerry]

I wanted to wade into the crowd with a machete and teach them some manners.

Civility par excellence.

[lynn]

Ms. Terry...Judging from the language you use, a confrontation with you would neither be civil nor considerate.
Another incident in the making it seems, where others might describe you as a "bratty, self-headed idiot jerk"?

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Boy, Ms. Church Lady...I sure would hate for you to run into Stephen King...Oh, my gawd the things he would do to you!!...

and Dixon with that machete!...

Oh, my gawd!! Ya' better watch out!!...
---------------------------------------------

Now, Dixon, be a nice little boy and put away your machete!....

:)<!-- using waccobburl -->

[lynn]

elienos, boomer...Perhaps not the silliest EVER, but pretty incredible that we are still talking about it.


See, that's what I mean people...

You are aware that the word 'civil' is part of the word 'civilization' aren't you?

And you consider this 'silly'?...

..."The word civilité shares the same etymology with words like civilized and civilization. Quite simply, the root word means to be "a member of the household." Just as there are certain rules that allow family members to live peacefully within a household, so there are rules of civility that allow us to live peacefully within a society. We have certain moral responsibilities to one another."...

When the heck did 'civility' become 'silly', and 'incredible' that people would actually discuss the issue?...

And what is this 'still talking about it'?...I saw the thread for the first time, and responded, and other's responded back...

This attitude of dismisiveness is appaling to me really...and underscores how people excuse incivility...

Sure, someone bein' simply obnoxious is not the same as getting blown away by a gunshot...duh...

But good things happen in small ways, and gestures...

jesus christ...I sure don't see anything trite, or silly about being civil to one another and training our kids to be civil, neighborly, all that sort of thing...
=====================

So, for those of you who think this subject is 'silly', or 'trite'...I hope you write this professor on the subject...

He decided 'civility' has gone enough 'down the tubes' in this culture - he wrote a book about it...

I want you to write him about how silly his book is...and post his response on here...

https://www.amazon.com/Civility-Stephen-L-Carter/dp/0060977590



<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --><!-- using waccobburl -->

[lynn]

Hey Mad Miles...and others...


Thanks for the thumbs up...:):


I agree...so many people look the other way and 'excuse' bullies...Polite, appropriate confrontation often works...But, some bullies don't always 'back down'...so if that happens to me...They just get to hear a name that they deserve...and get a visit from the police if the situation calls for it...: )...


That's interesting about the 'endorphin secretion'...I just called it 'gettin' off on their power trip'...Now, I know more specifically what the 'gettin' off' part is.




Bullies back down when stood up to, they seek weakness and opportunity when left alone. A recent study has shown they do what they do because it enhances their own endorphin secretion, i.e. they're enjoying themselves.
Those of us who care about justice need to confront them, appropriately, whenever and wherever the need arises.
Happy foggy Sunday,
"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[patzy]

there are many good reasons for having a co-op. I'd love to see more of them in this county. Only one I am aware of is in Santa Rosa.
Peace,
Tiger
I had a similar experience while waiting outside a pizza 'joint' for my pizza and a carload of college-age boys pulled up, yelling and cursing and the driver, while getting out (yelling and cursing) happened to look my way so I mouthed quiet down, he turned and stood at the front of my vehicle and yelled YOU SAID WHAT TO ME???!!! So I rolled down my window and said "I said shut up!"
He back-stepped and mumbled and then shut up. If we confront these fools and not allow them to take over our streets the better things will be. I see these acts of screaming and cursing among groups just walking down the street. I have no idea if this is a new 'in' thing for certain folks to do, but they are not going to do it around me. It is the same with inconsiderate neighbors that slam in and out of their place all times of the day or night. I finally got tired of putting up with it and went out and gave them what for and lo and behold it did the trick.

Had a similar incident at the Yulupa Whole Foods while trying to eat out front and yes, had 'yellers'. Regrettably they got away with it, but no more!
It is just another form of bullying as far as I am concerned and most bullies are cowards when you stand up to them. Let's take back the streets and public areas!!

[MsTerry]

MACHETES ON SALE!!!
STARTING AT $7.99!!!!!
https://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/prodlist.jsp?SearchText=machete&OVADID=1652132521&category=&Mode=Text&pattern=main_front.jsphttps:///?OVRAW=machetes&OVMTC=standard&OVKEY=machetes&OVKWID=15200770521&range=11



It is just another form of bullying as far as I am concerned and most bullies are cowards when you stand up to them. Let's take back the streets and public areas!!

[patzy]

MACHETES ON SALE!!!
STARTING AT $7.99!!!!!
https://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/prodlist.jsp?SearchText=machete&OVADID=1652132521&category=&Mode=Text&pattern=main_front.jsphttps:///?OVRAW=machetes&OVMTC=standard&OVKEY=machetes&OVKWID=15200770521&range=11
Am I to take it, you don't think a strong stance on demanding decent civil actions on public streets is needed? :hmmm:Silly reply on your part.:hello: Should we just 'drive back the darkness' and allow them to ruin life for the rest of us? I am really getting fed up with all the new-age crap on Wacco. Geeze are you just going to embrace pacifism and let everyone walk all over you? Thanks goodness human rights/animal activists don't take that stance, or nothing would ever change.

[elienos]

The silly was originally not about the Whole Foods discussion but the city bashing that was going on. Sorry I didn't realize you are so serious. i was being silly.

I still think it is funny this thread is still going. But go ahead, and have your discussion but remember that all isn't black and white.




elienos, boomer...Perhaps not the silliest EVER, but pretty incredible that we are still talking about it.


See, that's what I mean people...

You are aware that the word 'civil' is part of the word 'civilization' aren't you?

And you consider this 'silly'?...

..."The word civilité shares the same etymology with words like civilized and civilization. Quite simply, the root word means to be "a member of the household." Just as there are certain rules that allow family members to live peacefully within a household, so there are rules of civility that allow us to live peacefully within a society. We have certain moral responsibilities to one another."...

When the heck did 'civility' become 'silly', and 'incredible' that people would actually discuss the issue?...

And what is this 'still talking about it'?...I saw the thread for the first time, and responded, and other's responded back...

This attitude of dismisiveness is appaling to me really...and underscores how people excuse incivility...

Sure, someone bein' simply obnoxious is not the same as getting blown away by a gunshot...duh...

But good things happen in small ways, and gestures...

jesus christ...I sure don't see anything trite, or silly about being civil to one another and training our kids to be civil, neighborly, all that sort of thing...
=====================

So, for those of you who think this subject is 'silly', or 'trite'...I hope you write this professor on the subject...

He decided 'civility' has gone enough 'down the tubes' in this culture - he wrote a book about it...

I want you to write him about how silly his book is...and post his response on here...

https://www.amazon.com/Civility-Stephen-L-Carter/dp/0060977590



<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --><!-- using waccobburl -->

[MsTerry]

Can I use some of your choice words to show him what civility means to people who care about civility?



He decided 'civility' has gone enough 'down the tubes' in this culture - he wrote a book about it...

I want you to write him about how silly his book is...and post his response on here...

[MsTerry]

AN ADDITIONAL 50% OFF IF YOU BUY A GUN AT THE SAME TIME, TODAY ONLY!!!


Am I to take it, you don't think a strong stance on demanding decent civil actions on public streets is needed? :hmmm:Silly reply on your part.:hello: Should we just 'drive back the darkness' and allow them to ruin life for the rest of us? I am really getting fed up with all the new-age crap on Wacco. Geeze are you just going to embrace pacifism and let everyone walk all over you? Thanks goodness human rights/animal activists don't take that stance, or nothing would ever change.

[lynn]

elianos...

I didn't mean it to 'city bash'...I was responding to the whole perspective of 2 particular posts...

As you read, my initial post isn't just about that one incident...

It's about the whole issue of 'incivility'...

I agree...certain things may not always be 'black and white'...

But, there are also those times when they very clearly are...

I don't know about you...But, I don't want to live in a world where things are always grey and nebulous...never any clear standards...You can't create and sustain a very good civilization that way...It's a good way of helping it to fall apart...


The silly was originally not about the Whole Foods discussion but the city bashing that was going on. Sorry I didn't realize you are so serious. i was being silly.

I still think it is funny this thread is still going. But go ahead, and have your discussion but remember that all isn't black and white.

[lynn]

Ms. Churchy Lady...

You really don't have anything better to do...do you...

Suggestion...

Go down to some body of water, feed the ducks, and get some fresh air!

And try not to be such a ridiculous bore...


Can I use some of your choice words to show him what civility means to people who care about civility?

[lynn]

patzy...

Oh, some people are just so bored they can't help but be a silly bore themselves...

I agree with you...there is a lot of 'new agey' BS out there...Has been for quite a long time...Some of the feel goody stuff is nice, and innocent...

But, it's a pretty varied and violent world...And there's just certain things I'm not willing to put up with...and I sure wish other's woudn't be so willing to put up with 'em either...

There is such a thing as being spineless, and too nice...You end up gettin' eatin' by sharks...

I've had to be called on my jerkiness at times too...Haven't we all, and hopefully learned a thing or two?...So, all I can do is stand up for what I think are some good, and right things...

take care...



Am I to take it, you don't think a strong stance on demanding decent civil actions on public streets is needed? :hmmm:Silly reply on your part.:hello: Should we just 'drive back the darkness' and allow them to ruin life for the rest of us? I am really getting fed up with all the new-age crap on Wacco. Geeze are you just going to embrace pacifism and let everyone walk all over you? Thanks goodness human rights/animal activists don't take that stance, or nothing would ever change.

[MsTerry]

Lynn,
You have such civil suggestions, will you come and join me?
I'll bring a dictionary and show you all the words that are available for your puerile vitriol.


Ms. Churchy Lady...
You really don't have anything better to do...do you...
Suggestion...
Go down to some body of water, feed the ducks, and get some fresh air!
And try not to be such a ridiculous bore...

[jojobeana]

Hi Larysa, May I recommend posting this on Yelp.com? It is a great way to give opinions of any business. I have stopped shopping there because of the attitude of many of the shoppers and staff. Why attitude at a grocery store? I shop Andy's. Thanks for your post. Jo


Greetings!

As I was eating this morning at Whole Foods, three men were talking loudly in the inside eating area. As another women sat down to eat, one of them became very loud as he read to his friends. She politely asked him to quiet down and he became belligerent and yelled at her to leave!

I turned around and requested for him to please stop yelling. His hostility increased and he began yelling at me. Both the other woman and myself felt threatened, immediately left the area and told staff members, who promptly called the manager. Ten minutes later the assistant manger Clarke Pomeroy saunters to the front of the store.

The other woman and I were noticably upset, standing w/ our breakfasts in our hands and quickly told him what had happened. Clarke Pomeroy walked over to the three men and spent the next 30 minutes laughing and joking with them! He completely believed their lies that we were friends who were yelling at them! When he spoke with us, Clarke Pomeroy simply shrugged it off and did not want to do anything!

We and other people who were there are appalled that someone who was belligerent and hostile to two people was not asked to leave!
I have called the corporate office (510) 428-7400 ext. #7067 and no one has returned my calls. Needless to say, I will not shop there any more.

Perhaps it is time for Whole Foods to be replaced by a community food co-op. I had belonged to People's in the Ocean Beach area of San Diego for many years and feel that is an excellent model among several others.

Thank you for reading this!

Sincerely, Larysa

[nbeener]

thank you terry, I too would like to identify the completely evil so we can shoot them on sight, not waste or valuable tax money on trials or prisons!
Scarily, this scenario was recently suggested to me by coworkers who I had thought to be reasonable and compassionate people


Can you please supply us with the names or pictures of the people that are completely evil, since it is so close to the town square and my kids walk by there everyday.
I like to keep them out of harm's way, if I can.
Thanks!