Please No Dogs at public events

[hestia]

This may seem petty in the light of now, where Wall Street and the financiers are attempting to rape the taxpayer once again...but, it needs to be said.

I attended the Progressive Festival on Sunday (which was a great event, by the way), and witnessed many dogs there---on leashes, yes. But with such crowded conditions, it seems inappropriate to bring them. They were growling and barking at each other (normal, as they are territorial animals), and some were obstructing the flow of people in the very narrow isles. There was a very large black dog completely obstructing an isle, and a man tripped over it, flat on his face. And, I wasn't right next to any dogs, but fleas were jumping on my legs...

So, dog owners--please, PLEASE leave your dog at home, or take a walk with him instead of taking him to crowded events. Thanks.

Kathleen

[santarosie]

Growling, and Tripping, and Fleas, OH MY!:tuffpuppy:

I love events that I can bring my dog to, and she loves going out on adventures. When we go places, a constant flow of people stop to admire her and love her all up :heart: Many people take great pleasure in interacting with dogs in public places, especially those who are not fortunate enough to have a "best-friend" of their own. Dogs are valued members of the community and should be allowed to join in the festivities...as long as they are kept under your control (just like your kids, heh, heh!) They can teach us so much about gratitude, unfettered joy, playfulness, restraint, communication, and many other things. Growling is communication...when they warn you (or another dog) to stay back, abide their request.

I attended the Railroad Car Regatta on Sunday and there were tons of great dogs there. I stopped to admire and inquire about several. They were mostly well behaved, welcomed, and having a great time. However, some of the owners failed to recognize that it was too hot to keep them standing out in the sun for long periods, especially on the hot gravel and asphalt, and a few looked kinda baked. So PLEASE remember your dog is "wearing her best fur coat" all the time; give plenty of water, rest, and shade; and NEVER, EVER, leave your dog in the car in the sun with the windows rolled up, even in seemingly cool weather. It gets extremely hot in there very fast, try it sometime (wearing your coat) and see!

[nikki]

This may seem petty in the light of now, where Wall Street and the financiers are attempting to rape the taxpayer once again...but, it needs to be said.

I attended the Progressive Festival on Sunday (which was a great event, by the way), and witnessed many dogs there---on leashes, yes. But with such crowded conditions, it seems inappropriate to bring them. They were growling and barking at each other (normal, as they are territorial animals), and some were obstructing the flow of people in the very narrow isles. There was a very large black dog completely obstructing an isle, and a man tripped over it, flat on his face. And, I wasn't right next to any dogs, but fleas were jumping on my legs...

So, dog owners--please, PLEASE leave your dog at home, or take a walk with him instead of taking him to crowded events. Thanks.

Kathleen

Oviously you don't own a dog. They are family members, as loved as if they were your child. This country is already so up tight, dogs are not allowed just about everywhere. They are not allowed in parks, beaches, retail stores, the list is endless. Here's one festival where dogs were allowed. Thank you, it's a joy to be able to bring your dog with you. Granted some owners have not trained their dogs well, ..... there's many parents that haven't any control over their kids and the kids behave terribly!
In France dogs are allowed everywhere. Restaurants, trains, stores, hotels, buses, and hospitals! it's wonderful and it works, no one is dying from germs, fleas or disease. You need to lighten up! Dogs should be allowed everywhere.

[Dixon]

Oviously you don't own a dog. They are family members, as loved as if they were your child.

Are you exaggerating a little here, or do you really mean it? In other words, if a truck were bearing down on your dog and your child, and you could only save one of them, would you be just as likely to save the dog and let the child be crushed as vice versa? (I guess I'm a "human chauvinist"; I'm kinda hoping that your answer is that you'd save the child and let the dog be sacrificed).


In France dogs are allowed everywhere. Restaurants, trains, stores, hotels, buses, and hospitals! it's wonderful and it works...

I can't help but wonder how many millions of French folks disagree about it being "wonderful" and "working". Or do you think it's unanimous?


...no one is dying from germs, fleas or disease.

But presumably a few are dying, and quite a few more are maimed, by dog attacks there, just as here in the USA. Can we agree that there is some reasonable cause for concern--at least a little? I'm hoping that you're not like that woman who was recently sentenced to prison because she watched her dog tear another woman to pieces and then blamed the victim.


Dogs should be allowed everywhere.

I assume that you have enough empathy for owners of other animals to support allowing their well-behaved cows, horses, pigs, lizards, parrots,
snakes, ostriches, apes, alligators, camels, lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) everywhere too. Or should it be a special privilege reserved for the species that happens to be your favorite?

I could support your idea of allowing dogs (and those other animals!) in most, maybe all, public places under these conditions:

1. Dog owners not immediately cleaning up after their dogs would receive criminal penalties (I'm sooooo tired of stepping in dogshit!)

2. Dog owners whose dogs pee on something owned by someone else would receive criminal penalties. (Just last week, I barely intervened in time to stop an unaccompanied dog from peeing on a display of pants at the store I work in. Its leg was lifted, ready to "go", no owner in sight.)

3. Dog owners who allow their dog or leash to get in the way of traffic, pedestrian or otherwise, so as to create a hazard would receive criminal penalties.

4. Dog owners whose dogs attack or threaten (snarling, growling) people or other animals (except in clearcut cases of self-defense) would receive criminal penalties. Attacking dogs, or dogs with repeated incidents of threatening behavior, would be banned from public places (this would save some lives).

I'm not wild about dogs, Nikki (I'm a cat lover!) but I can compromise with you on your "dogs everywhere" idea if you can accept reasonable enforcement of peoples' responsibility for their animals as stipulated above. How about it?

Arf Arf;

Dixon

[broadbandersnatch]

Oviously you don't own a dog. They are family members, as loved as if they were your child. This country is already so up tight, dogs are not allowed just about everywhere. They are not allowed in parks, beaches, retail stores, the list is endless. Here's one festival where dogs were allowed. Thank you, it's a joy to be able to bring your dog with you. Granted some owners have not trained their dogs well, ..... there's many parents that haven't any control over their kids and the kids behave terribly!
In France dogs are allowed everywhere. Restaurants, trains, stores, hotels, buses, and hospitals! it's wonderful and it works, no one is dying from germs, fleas or disease. You need to lighten up! Dogs should be allowed everywhere.
Yes. I think they should be allowed in hospitals, hotel lobbies, barber shops, grocery stores and supermarkets, movie theaters and post offices, not to mention, eye doctors offices, fine ceramic studios, public bathrooms and all restaurants, churches, bars and cafes. What a better world we would live in and more importantly, more like France!!!

[podfish]

Dogs should be allowed everywhere.
That's how I feel about off-road motorcycles. Sadly, most people who like to use the beaches and hiking trails aound here don't feel that way. They even get picky about mountain bikes and often about horses!

[Dixon]

That's how I feel about off-road motorcycles. Sadly, most people who like to use the beaches and hiking trails aound here don't feel that way...

My understanding is that the noise pollution, exhaust pollution, and tire track damage from off-road motorcycles constitute good reasons to ban them from a number of areas, particularly natural settings such as wilderness, where many species are very sensitive to such factors. An interesting question is whether you and other motorcycle enthusiasts are mature enough to recognize that such restrictions are reasonable, and to comply with them, even if they're unpleasant for you.

Dixon

[jksoza]

I would challenge you all to treat dogs as respectfully and as compassionately as children. Not all events are for children either, and some events are made more uncomfortable by the presence of children, especially uncontrolled ones. But we forgive them and give them room to be who they are. Some people feel that way about dogs and their presence in our lives keeps us human and sane when the inhumane world we live in tries to domesticate and control everything. Every dog owner should be responsible and have control of their dog. As parents should have reasonable awareness of the world outside of and affected by their children. This county is so limited for dogs. I sympathize with dog owners who want to have their dogs with them at the limited places their allowed. Someone at The Progressive Festival could have just as easily tripped over a small child and they would have been held responsible for their own lack of awareness. Children make people trip all the time. It happens. Big deal. As far as fleas, and dogs carrying them go, I got lyme disease from walking in the forest where deer walk. I know families who have had to deal with outbreaks of pinworms, lice, etc. etc. from...children. Cats, homebodies that they may be, kill a tragic number of songbirds every year.
Yes, in light of the fact that we are losing wild creatures, polar bears, frogs, etc, ad infinitum, losing wild places and natural cycles every day as a result of our obsession with ease, convenience and comfort, I would say it is sad, to say the least that you are focusing on a mild incident with dogs. A world without other creatures to challenge our comfort, thought and actions is a lonely lonely world. Sarah Palin enjoys shooting wolves from a helicopter.
That terrifying topic, her blood lust for wild creatures, and the possibility of her in power is an amplified version of this topic. Let's focus beyond our pastoral, progressive, oh so cultivated wonderland with it's occasionally ill-behaved citizens and dogs.


This may seem petty in the light of now, where Wall Street and the financiers are attempting to rape the taxpayer once again...but, it needs to be said.

I attended the Progressive Festival on Sunday (which was a great event, by the way), and witnessed many dogs there---on leashes, yes. But with such crowded conditions, it seems inappropriate to bring them. They were growling and barking at each other (normal, as they are territorial animals), and some were obstructing the flow of people in the very narrow isles. There was a very large black dog completely obstructing an isle, and a man tripped over it, flat on his face. And, I wasn't right next to any dogs, but fleas were jumping on my legs...

So, dog owners--please, PLEASE leave your dog at home, or take a walk with him instead of taking him to crowded events. Thanks.

Kathleen

[broadbandersnatch]

Dogs are creatures that certainly deserve respect but then so do humans. The fact is there are places and events where neither children or dogs are welcome. It is not discriminatory to ban either children or dogs from events where their presence may prove disruptive. Back to our four legged brethren: if they are welcome at a public event, it is the dog owner's responsibility to see that they are controlled. ie that they do not trip humans, bark excessively and that their poop is cleaned up behind them.
If one wants to speak of their concerns over Sarah Palin's penchant for killing and endangering wild creatures, please, let's do start a new thread. I think the original poster brings up a legitimate concern. All too often I have observed dog owners give preferential consideration to their pets over their neighbors. There is something wrong with that. Humans are creatures too and deserve respect as well.


I would challenge you all to treat dogs as respectfully and as compassionately as children. Not all events are for children either, and some events are made more uncomfortable by the presence of children, especially uncontrolled ones. But we forgive them and give them room to be who they are. Some people feel that way about dogs and their presence in our lives keeps us human and sane when the inhumane world we live in tries to domesticate and control everything. Every dog owner should be responsible and have control of their dog. As parents should have reasonable awareness of the world outside of and affected by their children. This county is so limited for dogs. I sympathize with dog owners who want to have their dogs with them at the limited places their allowed. Someone at The Progressive Festival could have just as easily tripped over a small child and they would have been held responsible for their own lack of awareness. Children make people trip all the time. It happens. Big deal. As far as fleas, and dogs carrying them go, I got lyme disease from walking in the forest where deer walk. I know families who have had to deal with outbreaks of pinworms, lice, etc. etc. from...children. Cats, homebodies that they may be, kill a tragic number of songbirds every year.
Yes, in light of the fact that we are losing wild creatures, polar bears, frogs, etc, ad infinitum, losing wild places and natural cycles every day as a result of our obsession with ease, convenience and comfort, I would say it is sad, to say the least that you are focusing on a mild incident with dogs. A world without other creatures to challenge our comfort, thought and actions is a lonely lonely world. Sarah Palin enjoys shooting wolves from a helicopter.
That terrifying topic, her blood lust for wild creatures, and the possibility of her in power is an amplified version of this topic. Let's focus beyond our pastoral, progressive, oh so cultivated wonderland with it's occasionally ill-behaved citizens and dogs.

[Ridinrn]

I have a beagle who is my best friend, companion et al.
She goes everywhere with my husband and I. Probably the only place she won't be going is for our overnight new year celebration into the city. We'll be at a hotel there.
Other than that, she rides on the back of my motorcycle in a very safe carrier. My husband and I are responsible in light of any weather conditions for her and always carry a bottle of water and a dish for her. Part of the reason we relocated to this area was it was so dog friendly and for all the times we've taken our beagle with us, in crowds etc, we've never seen what you are describing. Perhaps someone fell over a dog because he or she was drinking.
Who knows. I feel dogs are wonderful companions and love to see people with them.

[Sonomamark]

Please: a dog is a dog. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It's still a dog. It doesn't have human rights and it isn't entitled to go--meaning, you are not entitled to bring it--anywhere humans can go. Just because you anthropomorphize your dog into a "family member" doesn't mean that it qualifies to go anywhere your family can go. They aren't children. They will never grow up to be human adults. You, as a dog's owner, are accountable to the community standards for where a dog does and doesn't belong, and that's as it should be.

Yes, there is more latitude in France. And you know what? There's dog shit everywhere. Everywhere. It's repulsive.

The original poster says that "most" dogs are well-behaved. What about the ones which aren't? Personally, I'm not fond of dogs. I'm fastidious, I really dislike the smell of them, and when they a) shove their snouts in my crotch; b) jump up on me; c) sniff/lick my hands; d) coat me with fur, while they are doing what is natural to them, it's very unpleasant to me.

A thought problem: what if I had, say, a camel of which I was very fond? Which I considered "part of the family"? Would my emotional connection with this animal then entitle me to bring it to public events, where it could spit at, trample and generally do typically camel-like things to others around me?

Of course not. No one would think so.

So I think it's okay to stipulate that some public events do not welcome dogs, and at those which do, to require a leash and owner control. The former is perfectly acceptable, and the latter is a good compromise between the public's interest in not having to contend with unwelcome dog overtures, and the owner's wish to be accompanied by her/his dog.

While owning a pet is a right, being allowed to attend a public event with it is a privilege. Organizers and government have the legitimate right to place limits on this as they see fit.


SM


Oviously you don't own a dog. They are family members, as loved as if they were your child. This country is already so up tight, dogs are not allowed just about everywhere. They are not allowed in parks, beaches, retail stores, the list is endless. Here's one festival where dogs were allowed. Thank you, it's a joy to be able to bring your dog with you. Granted some owners have not trained their dogs well, ..... there's many parents that haven't any control over their kids and the kids behave terribly!
In France dogs are allowed everywhere. Restaurants, trains, stores, hotels, buses, and hospitals! it's wonderful and it works, no one is dying from germs, fleas or disease. You need to lighten up! Dogs should be allowed everywhere.

[Ridinrn]

Hey all...does this mean NO dogs at the WACCOBB picnic upcoming in Ragle Park?:xtrmlaugh:

[nikki]

Dogs are allowed at reagle park, but on a leash only. they do have a great dog park there. nikki

[nikki]

Please: a dog is a dog. It doesn't matter how you feel about it. It's still a dog. It doesn't have human rights and it isn't entitled to go--meaning, you are not entitled to bring it--anywhere humans can go. Just because you anthropomorphize your dog into a "family member" doesn't mean that it qualifies to go anywhere your family can go. They aren't children. They will never grow up to be human adults. You, as a dog's owner, are accountable to the community standards for where a dog does and doesn't belong, and that's as it should be.

Yes, there is more latitude in France. And you know what? There's dog shit everywhere. Everywhere. It's repulsive.

The original poster says that "most" dogs are well-behaved. What about the ones which aren't? Personally, I'm not fond of dogs. I'm fastidious, I really dislike the smell of them, and when they a) shove their snouts in my crotch; b) jump up on me; c) sniff/lick my hands; d) coat me with fur, while they are doing what is natural to them, it's very unpleasant to me.

A thought problem: what if I had, say, a camel of which I was very fond? Which I considered "part of the family"? Would my emotional connection with this animal then entitle me to bring it to public events, where it could spit at, trample and generally do typically camel-like things to others around me?

Of course not. No one would think so.

So I think it's okay to stipulate that some public events do not welcome dogs, and at those which do, to require a leash and owner control. The former is perfectly acceptable, and the latter is a good compromise between the public's interest in not having to contend with unwelcome dog overtures, and the owner's wish to be accompanied by her/his dog.

While owning a pet is a right, being allowed to attend a public event with it is a privilege. Organizers and government have the legitimate right to place limits on this as they see fit.


SM

I have been to france many times and there's no dog poop anywhere. In paris they have people hired by the goverment who's job it is to clean up dog poop. but oviously you are not an animal lover.

[nikki]

I have a beagle who is my best friend, companion et al.
She goes everywhere with my husband and I. Probably the only place she won't be going is for our overnight new year celebration into the city. We'll be at a hotel there.
Other than that, she rides on the back of my motorcycle in a very safe carrier. My husband and I are responsible in light of any weather conditions for her and always carry a bottle of water and a dish for her. Part of the reason we relocated to this area was it was so dog friendly and for all the times we've taken our beagle with us, in crowds etc, we've never seen what you are describing. Perhaps someone fell over a dog because he or she was drinking.
Who knows. I feel dogs are wonderful companions and love to see people with them.

Thank-you. It's good to hear from a responsible dog owner who knows the joy of the love recieved by a pet. nikki

[hestia]

I have a beagle who is my best friend, companion et al.
She goes everywhere with my husband and I. Probably the only place she won't be going is for our overnight new year celebration into the city. We'll be at a hotel there.
Other than that, she rides on the back of my motorcycle in a very safe carrier. My husband and I are responsible in light of any weather conditions for her and always carry a bottle of water and a dish for her. Part of the reason we relocated to this area was it was so dog friendly and for all the times we've taken our beagle with us, in crowds etc, we've never seen what you are describing. Perhaps someone fell over a dog because he or she was drinking.
Who knows. I feel dogs are wonderful companions and love to see people with them.

The man in question was completely sober. The dog was black, large, and was a similar enough color to the grass as to be somewhat camouflaged. Also, one would not expect a large animal to be sprawled out across an aisle. So please don't try to rationalize the incident, attempting to make the human wrong in this situation.

Kathleen

[broadbandersnatch]

I wasn't at the Prog Festival this year but I have been there many times and I can tell you nobody's walking around drunk there. It's not a drinking type of event or crowd. In all likelihood it was the density of the crowd that caused the man to trip over the dog. In a setting like this, it is easy not to see a dog. I think it is important for dog owners to keep their animal out of the thick of the throng as it is easy to miss them. The same holds true for children. If I brought a dog or a small child with me to such an even I would choose to stay out of the thick of the gathering in order to protect my loved one from being accidentally stepped on. Common sense, isn't it?

I have a beagle who is my best friend, companion et al.
She goes everywhere with my husband and I. Probably the only place she won't be going is for our overnight new year celebration into the city. We'll be at a hotel there.
Other than that, she rides on the back of my motorcycle in a very safe carrier. My husband and I are responsible in light of any weather conditions for her and always carry a bottle of water and a dish for her. Part of the reason we relocated to this area was it was so dog friendly and for all the times we've taken our beagle with us, in crowds etc, we've never seen what you are describing. Perhaps someone fell over a dog because he or she was drinking.
Who knows. I feel dogs are wonderful companions and love to see people with them.

[Sonomamark]

Well, you're 0-for-2. I've lived in France and been there many times myself, and yes, there is dog shit everywhere. All over the sidewalks, all over the walkways in parks (not on grass, because neither people nor animals are generally allowed on grass in French parks).

And I am an animal lover. I just don't let that cloud my brain when it comes to simple issues like the appropriateness of pets in various public venues. Being an "animal lover" shouldn't have to mean that reason goes out the window when it comes to all matters relating to cute l'il fuzzy wuzzums.

Before you start making personal characterizations of people, you might want to step back and take an objective look at what you're saying and whether you have any grounds for saying it.


SM


I have been to france many times and there's no dog poop anywhere. In paris they have people hired by the goverment who's job it is to clean up dog poop. but oviously you are not an animal lover.

[nikki]

Are you exaggerating a little here, or do you really mean it? In other words, if a truck were bearing down on your dog and your child, and you could only save one of them, would you be just as likely to save the dog and let the child be crushed as vice versa? (I guess I'm a "human chauvinist"; I'm kinda hoping that your answer is that you'd save the child and let the dog be sacrificed).



I can't help but wonder how many millions of French folks disagree about it being "wonderful" and "working". Or do you think it's unanimous?



But presumably a few are dying, and quite a few more are maimed, by dog attacks there, just as here in the USA. Can we agree that there is some reasonable cause for concern--at least a little? I'm hoping that you're not like that woman who was recently sentenced to prison because she watched her dog tear another woman to pieces and then blamed the victim.



I assume that you have enough empathy for owners of other animals to support allowing their well-behaved cows, horses, pigs, lizards, parrots,
snakes, ostriches, apes, alligators, camels, lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) everywhere too. Or should it be a special privilege reserved for the species that happens to be your favorite?

I could support your idea of allowing dogs (and those other animals!) in most, maybe all, public places under these conditions:

1. Dog owners not immediately cleaning up after their dogs would receive criminal penalties (I'm sooooo tired of stepping in dogshit!)

2. Dog owners whose dogs pee on something owned by someone else would receive criminal penalties. (Just last week, I barely intervened in time to stop an unaccompanied dog from peeing on a display of pants at the store I work in. Its leg was lifted, ready to "go", no owner in sight.)

3. Dog owners who allow their dog or leash to get in the way of traffic, pedestrian or otherwise, so as to create a hazard would receive criminal penalties.

4. Dog owners whose dogs attack or threaten (snarling, growling) people or other animals (except in clearcut cases of self-defense) would receive criminal penalties. Attacking dogs, or dogs with repeated incidents of threatening behavior, would be banned from public places (this would save some lives).

I'm not wild about dogs, Nikki (I'm a cat lover!) but I can compromise with you on your "dogs everywhere" idea if you can accept reasonable enforcement of peoples' responsibility for their animals as stipulated above. How about it?

Arf Arf;

Dixon

thankyou it's a good compromise.
Of course pet owners have to be responsible for their pets behavior!!! I believe that it's the owner fault if their pet has bad behavior, not the animal. I would never own a dangerous dog, certain breeds are agressive, again the owner has to have total control and well informed about the type of dog they own. I have a pug, a 17 yr. old cat, and 9 birds. I have had all types of animals. at one time I had 3 dogs, 6 cats, 100 birds, 2 pygmy goats, 8 angora rabbits and 3 large parrots. non of them have ever hurt a person. They have only brought joy to our family.
The pit-bull owner that let her dogs kill the SF lady. She deserves to go to jail as she is responsible for the dogs actions. I have been attacked 3 times over a 2 year period by pit bulls and a great dane. The 1st thing I thought of was to protect my dog with my body. I was furious with the owner and brought in the animal control. That hasn't change my mind about having dogs in public places.
I think it would be totally cool if all types of animals were welcomed in public places. Most kids would love that experiece to be around all animals, like being at the zoo.
What a ridiculous question, who would I save my child or dog? I would save both and sacrifice myself. It 's just as painful to loose a human being as it is to loose a devoted and loving pet.
There's no place on earth that people are unanimous about anything. I am sure if the french people were unhappy the would march and picket about it to change things. At least they are not banning dogs from everywhere like this country! It seems letting dogs in restaurants, trains, buses, grocery stores etc. hasn't caused any serious problems and it works.!!
enough said. nikki

[nikki]

Yes. I think they should be allowed in hospitals, hotel lobbies, barber shops, grocery stores and supermarkets, movie theaters and post offices, not to mention, eye doctors offices, fine ceramic studios, public bathrooms and all restaurants, churches, bars and cafes. What a better world we would live in and more importantly, more like France!!!


Your reply made me laugh. What fun, it would be great for this country to mellow out, relax and enjoy life, too many narrow minds. I do take my dog to my doctors office and he loves him! nikki

[Ridinrn]

Geez, sorry about looking at why someone tripped over a dog. Right now we are in our motorcoach at Pismo Beach and our beagle is riding on my motorcycle with me everywhere. We have been invited to every shop we've gone into as well as outside restaurants. Treats included in many. I do agree with people who don't pick up their dog poop. We do ours. Have those little plastic blue bags in a red plastic bone on her leash. Our beagle (which of their nature are hard to train) is good about sitting while we eat in public. I must admit she doesn't like to shop, and whines if I take too long in a store. Doesn't pee in the store either. She might be just a dog to some, but to our family she is family. She makes us laugh, probably lowers our bloodpressure and definitely has her own personality as well as feelings. We've had her in Daytona Bike week with 500,000 other motorcyclists and have been responsible owners with her care in crowds and never had a problem. We are going to Sturgis in 2009 and look forward to taking her. No she's a dog, but a better dog than many people I know. On that note, this thread is for the dogs, so I bid goodbye!:thumbsup:

[nikki]

Geez, sorry about looking at why someone tripped over a dog. Right now we are in our motorcoach at Pismo Beach and our beagle is riding on my motorcycle with me everywhere. We have been invited to every shop we've gone into as well as outside restaurants. Treats included in many. I do agree with people who don't pick up their dog poop. We do ours. Have those little plastic blue bags in a red plastic bone on her leash. Our beagle (which of their nature are hard to train) is good about sitting while we eat in public. I must admit she doesn't like to shop, and whines if I take too long in a store. Doesn't pee in the store either. She might be just a dog to some, but to our family she is family. She makes us laugh, probably lowers our bloodpressure and definitely has her own personality as well as feelings. We've had her in Daytona Bike week with 500,000 other motorcyclists and have been responsible owners with her care in crowds and never had a problem. We are going to Sturgis in 2009 and look forward to taking her. No she's a dog, but a better dog than many people I know. On that note, this thread is for the dogs, so I bid goodbye!:thumbsup:

:heart: Right on! :heart: we love our dogs. :heart: sounds like you're having fun with your family. :heart: nikki

[MsTerry]

This is an irresponsible suggestion, who would take care of your saved dog and child after you are taken to the morgue?



What a ridiculous question, who would I save my child or dog? I would save both and sacrifice myself. nikki

[Ridinrn]

I could never get pregnant so I'd save my beagle:yinyang:

[MsTerry]

But that was not the Question, this is more of a Palin answer


I could never get pregnant so I'd save my beagle:yinyang:

[Nancylynna]

I'd like to bring my cat. Just to mix things up.

[MsTerry]

This morningy at Ragle, I had the pleasure of cleaning up DOGSHIT out of the goal area before my daughter's game. While i was doing this, another dog owner was flicking his DOG'S SHIT into some shrub rather than removing it from the park.
We also received notice that at another game a kid was attacked by a dog.
Way to go doglovers :thumbsup:

[Neshamah]

Dogs see their owners as family and should be treated the same. I personally cannot stand dogs and will never choose to own one, but the fact that they are less complex organisms than humans should not make a difference in how they are treated.

I realize that is impractical. I do not know how best to live with non-human animals. If we did not keep dogs and cats as pets, most would never exist in the first place, but in a crowded world, maybe some beings, whether human or animal, are better off not being conceived than living a life of abuse or confinement. Dog owners should do what they can to include their animals wherever they go, and not live in a community where they are not welcome. On the other hand, communities should do their best to be welcoming.

Personally, I am a cat person, but I will not own one until I have a house and enough yard that the cat can roam without crossing streets.

~ Neshamah

[nikki]

I'd like to bring my cat. Just to mix things up.


I wish you would! I'd love that.........:):

[nikki]

This is an irresponsible suggestion, who would take care of your saved dog and child after you are taken to the morgue?


her father.

[MsTerry]

her father.

OK, and would the father still find you heroic after the dog dies (let's say 6yrs, if the dog was 6 at the time of your death) and he has to take care of the child alone?
At what age do you think the child will start wondering why his mommy saved the dogs life and deprive the child of a full life?

[nikki]

OK, and would the father still find you heroic after the dog dies (let's say 6yrs, if the dog was 6 at the time of your death) and he has to take care of the child alone?
At what age do you think the child will start wondering why his mommy saved the dogs life and deprive the child of a full life?


You're like a dog with a bone............ just can't let go!

I know my daughter would understand.
Time to drop this thread! enough said.:snorkel:

[MsTerry]

My kids have lost the other parent and would do anything to just spent an hour in the company of both of us.
I have no idea why you are discounting your daughter's feelings for you




I know my daughter would understand.

[sallye2254]

Thanks for expressing this. I completely agree. My addition is: PLEASE do not bring dogs to private parties, the Farmers' Market, or anywhere else that specifically does NOT welcome them. There are good reasons for places that do not allow dogs!

Some dog-owners and smokers seem to have one thing in common: arrogance and an overly-developed sense of entitlement! Keep your pets and smoke to yourselves and we'll all get along better. You may love you dogs and cats, but we all do NOT want them around us.


This may seem petty in the light of now, where Wall Street and the financiers are attempting to rape the taxpayer once again...but, it needs to be said.

I attended the Progressive Festival on Sunday (which was a great event, by the way), and witnessed many dogs there---on leashes, yes. But with such crowded conditions, it seems inappropriate to bring them. They were growling and barking at each other (normal, as they are territorial animals), and some were obstructing the flow of people in the very narrow isles. There was a very large black dog completely obstructing an isle, and a man tripped over it, flat on his face. And, I wasn't right next to any dogs, but fleas were jumping on my legs...

So, dog owners--please, PLEASE leave your dog at home, or take a walk with him instead of taking him to crowded events. Thanks.

Kathleen

[beshiva]

one more place, unfortunately, there is a complaint about our doggies!....I have raised six children and we have had a few dogs....we have been many places children are not welcome, So, dogs are way down on the list of acceptability....frankly, this stinks....there is sooooo much intolerance in our society, we have all become so limp, and wimps....we want our comfort zone to be sanitized, sterile, that so little freedom for everyone to enjoy themselves is all too common....I remember the days that we could roam a little easier, a little less judgements, the dogs could go everywhere.....we all had a pretty good time, and yeah sometimes, there was a doggie fight...oh, what the hell!....that's Life :)


This may seem petty in the light of now, where Wall Street and the financiers are attempting to rape the taxpayer once again...but, it needs to be said.

I attended the Progressive Festival on Sunday (which was a great event, by the way), and witnessed many dogs there---on leashes, yes. But with such crowded conditions, it seems inappropriate to bring them. They were growling and barking at each other (normal, as they are territorial animals), and some were obstructing the flow of people in the very narrow isles. There was a very large black dog completely obstructing an isle, and a man tripped over it, flat on his face. And, I wasn't right next to any dogs, but fleas were jumping on my legs...

So, dog owners--please, PLEASE leave your dog at home, or take a walk with him instead of taking him to crowded events. Thanks.

Kathleen

[nikki]

My kids have lost the other parent and would do anything to just spent an hour in the company of both of us.
I have no idea why you are discounting your daughter's feelings for you


I am not discounting my daughter's feelings. I know her very well, she adores animals,all of our pets, as much as I do. You haven't a clue what she would feel!! How righteous of you to presume you know what her feelings are!! She would think your arguments ridiculous and abnoxious.
Time to let go and MOVE ON.

[MsTerry]

That is a very interesting statement......
No, I don't know what your daughters feelings are for you.
Having gone to grief counseling with my own children, I can assure you that children are having long lasting effects from losing one or both of their parents.
Maybe it is that you haven't experienced the loss of someone close to your heart that you have a hard time imagining the impact it has on children.


I am not discounting my daughter's feelings. I know her very well, she adores animals,all of our pets, as much as I do. You haven't a clue what she would feel!! How righteous of you to presume you know what her feelings are!! She would think your arguments ridiculous and abnoxious.
Time to let go and MOVE ON.

[djmama]

This thread has gotten downright creepy. The deaths of children and loved ones in general is better discussed with compassion among people who care about one another. That's clearly not the case here. Please stop.

[nikki]

This thread has gotten downright creepy. The deaths of children and loved ones in general is better discussed with compassion among people who care about one another. That's clearly not the case here. Please stop.


You don't actually take this crap seriously???? HA ! what a joke. All of this stupidity just because I would like THE FREEDOM to take my dog where ever I like! None of this has to do with children dying that was just some ridiculous rantings of narrow minded people with a big stick up their ----. I guess I never should have acknowledge those remarks with an answer!
oh well, time to go enjoy the day with my dog.

[silverae]

Please move on*

Enough*

Rhi
:yinyang:

[Dixon]

What a ridiculous question, who would I save my child or dog?

It's not a ridiculous question. It's a great question to help me learn more about just how extreme some dog-lovers can get. I've always naively thought that it was pretty much instinctive for us to value other members of our own species over other species, but I'm learning that some of you value dogs over humans. For instance, look at your evasive answer to my question:


I would save both and sacrifice myself.

Your answer is evasive because it changes the conditions I set up in the question, so that you needn't make the moral choice I was getting at. This suggests to me that you would probably sacrifice a human to save your dog, but didn't want to say it.

I got that answer from a friend of mine in private correspondence. When asked the question I asked you, she said that if the human child were hers, she would "most likely" save the child, sacrificing the dog, but if it were someone else's child, she would "probably" sacrifice the child in favor of saving her dog.

I must admit to having a negative emotional response to her answer. Of course, that doesn’t mean there’s necessarily anything wrong with her values or her answer.

One reason her answer bugs me is that assuming we would always save the human over the dog is a very neat, tidy response that doesn’t leave us with too many thorny questions, while her answer implicitly complicates the issue by giving rise to lots of difficult questions, such as:

1. If you would save a dog over a human, would you do the same for a cat? A snake? A rat? A cricket? Your house? Your car? Your favorite hat?

2. If you would prioritize some species over humans but not others, by what criteria do you decide? Do you have some objective criterion, or is it just the subjective criterion of your personal affection for the individual creature or the species? And if it’s that subjective criterion, isn’t it self-centered?

3. How would you expect your neighbors to react if they knew you would sacrifice their child to save your dog?

4. How would you react if you had a (human) child and you knew your neighbors would sacrifice your child for their dog? Their cat? Their snake? Their rat? Their pet cricket? Their house? Their car? Their whatever?

5. Do you feel that your prioritization of your pet over human beings is a responsible, reasonable approach that everyone should take? If so, what changes to our laws would be needed? If not, what is it—an addictive response (in this case, dog-addiction) or what?

6. If you’re not even certain that you’d save your own child over your dog, shouldn’t Child Protective Services take away your kid (if you have one) for its own protection?

Dixon

[nikki]

I was amazed to see this new posting about saving a child or a dog.
Gee, you need to get a life! This issue was hashed over months ago and I thought it was over. Pretty sad, really what is the purpose???
TIME TO MOVE ON

[Dixon]

[QUOTE]I was amazed to see this new posting about saving a child or a dog.

Yeah, it took me awhile to get to it--fairly typical for me.


Gee, you need to get a life!

I have one, but it's not working very well. Do you know where I can get a new one cheap?


This issue was hashed over months ago and I thought it was over. Pretty sad, really what is the purpose???

I'm still interested in the topic. Apparently, for some reason, you have a problem with that. That's your problem.


TIME TO MOVE ON

Here's a news flash, Nikki: The fact that it's time for you to move on doesn't mean everyone else has to move on with you. If you think your being tired of a topic means everyone else must shut up, you're really self-centered. Tired of the topic? Fine--STOP READING THE THREAD! Tired of the posts showing up in your inbox (because you posted to the thread)? Fine--UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE THREAD! Nobody's making you read this stuff. To freely choose to read it, then bitch at people for posting it is obnoxious. As you would say, Get a life!

Sheeesh!

Dixon

[Valley Oak]

Dixon, this is one of the best posts I have ever read on this list (I have been subscribed for approximately 6 years).

The fact that there is a large number of people that value an animal from another species as equal to or more than a human animal is both reprehensible and deeply disturbing. These people need to be challenged. I'm glad that 'Niqqi' responded because she thought enough about it even if just to dismiss a great responsibility that she and others are in denial of.

Edward



It's not a ridiculous question. It's a great question to help me learn more about just how extreme some dog-lovers can get. I've always naively thought that it was pretty much instinctive for us to value other members of our own species over other species, but I'm learning that some of you value dogs over humans. For instance, look at your evasive answer to my question:



Your answer is evasive because it changes the conditions I set up in the question, so that you needn't make the moral choice I was getting at. This suggests to me that you would probably sacrifice a human to save your dog, but didn't want to say it.

I got that answer from a friend of mine in private correspondence. When asked the question I asked you, she said that if the human child were hers, she would "most likely" save the child, sacrificing the dog, but if it were someone else's child, she would "probably" sacrifice the child in favor of saving her dog.

I must admit to having a negative emotional response to her answer. Of course, that doesn’t mean there’s necessarily anything wrong with her values or her answer.

One reason her answer bugs me is that assuming we would always save the human over the dog is a very neat, tidy response that doesn’t leave us with too many thorny questions, while her answer implicitly complicates the issue by giving rise to lots of difficult questions, such as:

1. If you would save a dog over a human, would you do the same for a cat? A snake? A rat? A cricket? Your house? Your car? Your favorite hat?

2. If you would prioritize some species over humans but not others, by what criteria do you decide? Do you have some objective criterion, or is it just the subjective criterion of your personal affection for the individual creature or the species? And if it’s that subjective criterion, isn’t it self-centered?

3. How would you expect your neighbors to react if they knew you would sacrifice their child to save your dog?

4. How would you react if you had a (human) child and you knew your neighbors would sacrifice your child for their dog? Their cat? Their snake? Their rat? Their pet cricket? Their house? Their car? Their whatever?

5. Do you feel that your prioritization of your pet over human beings is a responsible, reasonable approach that everyone should take? If so, what changes to our laws would be needed? If not, what is it—an addictive response (in this case, dog-addiction) or what?

6. If you’re not even certain that you’d save your own child over your dog, shouldn’t Child Protective Services take away your kid (if you have one) for its own protection?

Dixon

[nikki]

[quote=nikki;79373]

Yeah, it took me awhile to get to it--fairly typical for me.



I have one, but it's not working very well. Do you know where I can get a new one cheap?



I'm still interested in the topic. Apparently, for some reason, you have a problem with that. That's your problem.



Here's a news flash, Nikki: The fact that it's time for you to move on doesn't mean everyone else has to move on with you. If you think your being tired of a topic means everyone else must shut up, you're really self-centered. Tired of the topic? Fine--STOP READING THE THREAD! Tired of the posts showing up in your inbox (because you posted to the thread)? Fine--UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE THREAD! Nobody's making you read this stuff. To freely choose to read it, then bitch at people for posting it is obnoxious. As you would say, Get a life!

Sheeesh!

Dixon


WOW!

FANATICAL AND RIGHTEOUS!

Live long and prosper

[MsTerry]

Dixon ,
good intro
the foreplay is smooth, tactile even
but then you shoot your wad
a little pre-mature





[quote=nikki;79373]

Yeah, it took me awhile to get to it--fairly typical for me.



I have one, but it's not working very well. Do you know where I can get a new one cheap?



I'm still interested in the topic. Apparently, for some reason, you have a problem with that. That's your problem.



Here's a news flash, Nikki: The fact that it's time for you to move on doesn't mean everyone else has to move on with you. If you think your being tired of a topic means everyone else must shut up, you're really self-centered. Tired of the topic? Fine--STOP READING THE THREAD! Tired of the posts showing up in your inbox (because you posted to the thread)? Fine--UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE THREAD! Nobody's making you read this stuff. To freely choose to read it, then bitch at people for posting it is obnoxious. As you would say, Get a life!

Sheeesh!

Dixon