Fluoride in Drinking Water [Archive]

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d-cat

09-23-2008, 07:01 PM

The only drinking water accessible to most people would be the water that the govt has complete control over.

yep, check out this story Orchard Dweller

Toxic Rocket Fuel Chemical In Drinking Water Can Stay Says Government
https://www.prisonplanet.com/toxic-rocket-fuel-chemical-in-drinking-water-can-stay-says-government.html

I read in the L.A. Weekly a few months back that they are tripling the fluoride level in the drinking water there. People should search the word 'fluoride' together with 'nazi' and read up a bit on the information that comes up. If you ever wondered how the people of our nation could be led into multiple wars, economic collapse, and a fascist police state, while still flocking to BBQs and Disneyland, then this might be a contributing factor.

Braggi

09-23-2008, 09:24 PM

... Toxic Rocket Fuel Chemical In Drinking Water Can Stay Says Government ...

Or to put it another way, " Naturally occurring mineral found at safe levels in drinking water."

It's always good to read up when a sensational headline appears. I must say, Waccobb keeps me on my toes. I've done more reading of research articles since I've come here ...

Anyway, the naturally occurring chemical in question does affect the thyroid in a powerful way which I'm sure isn't good for a person unless they happen to be hypothyroid, in which case it will be prescribed by an endocrinologist. Although the sensational term "toxic rocket fuel" suggests those evil doers that really do want to poison us all dump rocket fuel in our water supplies to accomplish that, when more likely, this substance, which occurs in Nature, as I mentioned, and is highly water soluble, gets into your tap water by way of fourth of July fireworks displays more than from any other source. How many government rockets are fired off in your watershed? None that I know of in mine. Every July, however, Healdsburg shoots off a couple of tons of that stuff and all the dust from that flows ... guess where? ... into the Russian River or into the ground water. Hmmmm. Wonder if they ever check the blood levels of the guys shooting off the rockets?

This snip from Wikipedia shows there is a lot to be learned and are still a lot of questions about this stuff:
Health effects

Perchlorate greatly impacts human health by interfering with iodide uptake into the thyroid gland. In adults, the thyroid gland helps regulate the metabolism by releasing hormones, while in children, the thyroid helps in proper development.
The NAS found that perchlorate only affects the thyroid gland. It is not stored in the body, it is not metabolized, and any effects of perchlorate on the thyroid gland are fully reversible once exposure stops[citation needed]. There has been some concern on perchlorates effects on fetuses, newborns and children, but several peer-reviewed studies on children and newborns also provide reason to believe that low levels of perchlorate do not pose a threat to these populations.[citation needed] On October 1, 2004, the American Thyroid Association (ATA) reported that perchlorate may not be as harmful to newborns, pregnant women and other adults as previously thought.[13]
A study involving healthy adult volunteers determined that at levels above 0.007 milligrams per kilogram per day (mg/kg-d), perchlorate can temporarily inhibit the thyroid gland’s ability to absorb iodine from the bloodstream ("iodide uptake inhibition", thus perchlorate is a known goitrogen).[14] The EPA converted this dose into a reference dose of 0.0007 mg/kg-d by dividing this level by the standard intraspecies uncertainty factor of 10. The agency then calculated a "drinking water equivalent level" of 24.5 ppb by assuming a person weighs 70 kilograms (154 pounds) and consumes 2 liters (68 ounces) of drinking water per day over a lifetime.[15] Thus, 25 ppb was set as the recommended drinking water standard (the DWEL). For that reason, most media reports call this the "safe" level of exposure. The NAS report also stated additional research would be helpful, but emphasized that the existing database on perchlorate was sufficient to make its reference dose recommendation and ensure it would be protective for everyone.[citation needed]
Recent research, however, has shown inhibition of iodide uptake in the thyroids of women at much lower levels, levels attainable from normally contaminated water and milk.[16] {end of Wikipedia quote}

It doesn't sound like anything I want in my drinking water at any significant level so I can understand the concern. However, tiny doses are natural and therefore probably not harmful, and are perhaps necessary for good health. The Govt. knows the folly of trying to eliminate a naturally occurring compound from water therefore it won't try. It's also worth noting that this stuff used to be added to chemical fertilizers decades ago and that could be a source in some groundwater.

Probably the best thing to do is not worry about it.

-Jeff

PS. Ya like the way they come up with those "safe" levels? This is not a very exact science, but, in their defense, the best way would be to feed it to a thousand people at varying levels and see at what levels people start getting sick. Oops, can't do that!

lynn

09-24-2008, 12:46 AM

Braggi

09-24-2008, 09:06 AM

PS. Ya like the way they come up with those "safe" levels? This is not a very exact science, but, in their defense, the best way would be to feed it to a thousand people at varying levels and see at what levels people start getting sick. Oops, can't do that!

Ha!...What about the lab rats...?...I thought they were suppose to be good enough...?...

Oh d-cat!!!...I see red anytime I see articles about how wonderful flouride in the water is...it helps kids to not have cavities!...

Dang!...What about all the people who have to drink that damn water, and aren't a kid, and don't need the damn flouride!... ... Other people shouldn't have to drink that junk, because of other lame parents...
I really hate the 'flouride in the water is so wonderful' bs!...

Well, gee. Go to France and see all the holes in the smiles of those happy, healthy, fluoride free peoples. We, as a group, have such better dental health overall, and largely due to fluoridated drinking water, most dentists would say.

I'm not personally convinced that fluoride in drinking water is a good idea. My dentist tells me that fluoride toothpastes and rinses work far better than adding it to drinking water because it soaks directly into the teeth but doesn't appear to travel to the teeth through the bloodstream. So he feels that if you want the benefits of fluoride (assuming you believe there are any) get it from toothpaste and rinses. I'm not sure how you can use fluoride products without swallowing some of it, so perhaps it's too scary to consider for some people.

I think what is most polluted by fluoride is the literature both supporting and opposing it. It's really hard to find any decent studies supporting fluoridation, but it's equally hard to find any good ones showing harm. The only studies I know of that really show harm are from areas that have naturally occurring fluoride at levels that far exceed recommended levels.

One would think that all the complaining by communities wishing to avoid fluoride in their drinking water would spur new studies but they're hard to find if they're out there.

Although perhaps overblown, as it claims fluoridation is, this paragraph sums up the US approach to so many things medical: "Like most things American, fluoride is overblown, over-prescribed, and over-used. Along with the expansion of fast food restaurants and American waistlines, fluoride's expansion into the food supply via the water supply is out of control and may be creating instead of curing tooth decay. It's time to stop water fluoridation. Fluoride can't fix a poor diet."

Clearly, the fluoride industry needs to demonstrate to the population that its products are safe and actually good for something. There are so many millions of us that grew up with fluoridated water and toothpaste it should be easy to find study subjects.

A quick look at France's terrible dental condition compared to ours suggests fluoride works. However, that's not much of a study.

-Jeff

d-cat

09-24-2008, 03:36 PM

I really hate the 'flouride in the water is so wonderful' bs!...

yeah, and that mercury-is-good-for-you stuff rubs me the wrong way too...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZArebYZzdc

d-cat

09-24-2008, 03:47 PM

Well, gee. Go to France and see all the holes in the smiles of those happy, healthy, fluoride free peoples. We, as a group, have such better dental health overall, and largely due to fluoridated drinking water, most dentists would say.

I'm not personally convinced that fluoride in drinking water is a good idea. My dentist tells me that fluoride toothpastes and rinses work far better than adding it to drinking water because it soaks directly into the teeth but doesn't appear to travel to the teeth through the bloodstream. So he feels that if you want the benefits of fluoride (assuming you believe there are any) get it from toothpaste and rinses. I'm not sure how you can use fluoride products without swallowing some of it, so perhaps it's too scary to consider for some people.

I think what is most polluted by fluoride is the literature both supporting and opposing it. It's really hard to find any decent studies supporting fluoridation, but it's equally hard to find any good ones showing harm. The only studies I know of that really show harm are from areas that have naturally occurring fluoride at levels that far exceed recommended levels.

One would think that all the complaining by communities wishing to avoid fluoride in their drinking water would spur new studies but they're hard to find if they're out there.

Although perhaps overblown, as it claims fluoridation is, this paragraph sums up the US approach to so many things medical: "Like most things American, fluoride is overblown, over-prescribed, and over-used. Along with the expansion of fast food restaurants and American waistlines, fluoride's expansion into the food supply via the water supply is out of control and may be creating instead of curing tooth decay. It's time to stop water fluoridation. Fluoride can't fix a poor diet."

Clearly, the fluoride industry needs to demonstrate to the population that its products are safe and actually good for something. There are so many millions of us that grew up with fluoridated water and toothpaste it should be easy to find study subjects.

A quick look at France's terrible dental condition compared to ours suggests fluoride works. However, that's not much of a study.

-Jeff

you can find info online on how Canada was divided with one half being fluoridated, and the other half ended up with better teeth. Fluoride can actually cause tooth problems.

For those too lazy to look into it, sodium fluoride is a waste product of the aluminum industry. It was first used as a drug in the water supply of the nazi concentration camps to keep the prisoners docile. From what I understand, its the main active ingredient in rat poison and the dumbing down ingredient in prozac. You can get fluoride-free toothpaste pretty easily, and we still have alternatives to the water supply, though from the news stories Orchard Dweller posted, it seems they're working on that one.

Braggi

09-24-2008, 05:04 PM

... you can find info online on how Canada was divided with one half being fluoridated, and the other half ended up with better teeth. Fluoride can actually cause tooth problems. ...

Can you post some links?

... For those too lazy to look into it, sodium fluoride is a waste product of the aluminum industry. It was first used as a drug in the water supply of the nazi concentration camps to keep the prisoners docile. From what I understand, its the main active ingredient in rat poison and the dumbing down ingredient in prozac. ...

Well, gee, you certainly have all the propaganda of the anti fluoride gang down pat. Thing is, half truths aren't always truths. The concentration camp story I have a hard time verifying since it only comes up on anti fluoride sites and the fluoride levels are never mentioned anyway. Fluorine compounds are used in a whole lot of things just as the deadly poison chlorine is used in a whole lot of things, including nice, natural sea salt. Painting with too broad of a brush is usually an error. Fluoride hasn't been used in rat poison for a long time as I understand it. Actually the reason is that it stays toxic in the environment too long. Hmmm. And Prozac doesn't have any "dumbing down" ingredients. Best leave Prozac out of the discussion since the compound therein is pretty different from the fluoride in drinking water.

I'm interested in links to real studies finding problems with fluoride levels currently found in fluoridated drinking water. I find a lot of unsupported statements out there, but few actual links to studies. The studies I've seen that find problems are studying areas where levels in groundwater are four to six times the optimum. I'm not surprised problems occur there.

-Jeff

lynn

09-25-2008, 12:26 AM

Braggi..."Well, gee. Go to France and see all the holes in the smiles of those happy, healthy, fluoride free peoples. We, as a group, have such better dental health overall, and largely due to fluoridated drinking water, most dentists would say."...

Like I wrote earlier Braggi...Don't even get me started on the "flouride in the water" bs...

It's a lazy societies way of trying to help their kids teeth not decay....It's REALLY STUPID!!!....

And don't tell me to go to France so I can see all the rotten teeth there...just because they didn't drink flouridated water...

Our family NEVER drank a drop of flouridated water...and all us kids grew up with perfect - not one cavity teeth...And we didn't use flouride toothpaste either....

It's really not that hard...Some parent's are just too lazy and stupid to not feed their kids right, and make 'em brush their teeth...

If ya' want to use flouride toothpaste fine...

But leave it out of my god-damn water!!!!

phooph

09-25-2008, 03:50 AM

I think what is most polluted by fluoride is the literature both supporting and opposing it. It's really hard to find any decent studies supporting fluoridation, but it's equally hard to find any good ones showing harm. The only studies I know of that really show harm are from areas that have naturally occurring fluoride at levels that far exceed recommended levels.

One would think that all the complaining by communities wishing to avoid fluoride in their drinking water would spur new studies but they're hard to find if they're out there.

-Jeff

https://www.sonic.net/kryptox/medicine/frac/hip.htm

d-cat

09-25-2008, 09:56 PM

Can you post some links?

not without searching - I researched this years ago

Well, gee, you certainly have all the propaganda of the anti fluoride gang down pat. Thing is, half truths aren't always truths. The concentration camp story I have a hard time verifying since it only comes up on anti fluoride sites and the fluoride levels are never mentioned anyway. Fluorine compounds are used in a whole lot of things just as the deadly poison chlorine is used in a whole lot of things, including nice, natural sea salt. Painting with too broad of a brush is usually an error. Fluoride hasn't been used in rat poison for a long time as I understand it. Actually the reason is that it stays toxic in the environment too long. Hmmm. And Prozac doesn't have any "dumbing down" ingredients. Best leave Prozac out of the discussion since the compound therein is pretty different from the fluoride in drinking water.

Call it anti-fluoride propaganda if you want. I've researched it.

I'm interested in links to real studies finding problems with fluoride levels currently found in fluoridated drinking water. I find a lot of unsupported statements out there, but few actual links to studies. The studies I've seen that find problems are studying areas where levels in groundwater are four to six times the optimum. I'm not surprised problems occur there.

-Jeff

Well then enjoy your fluoride.

Braggi

09-25-2008, 10:39 PM

not without searching - I researched this years ago

Call it anti-fluoride propaganda if you want. I've researched it.

Well then enjoy your fluoride.

You really don't have to get nasty. I've researched it too. A lot. For years. What I haven't found is much evidence one way or another if this stuff is good for us or not. Certainly overdosing is bad. I've not found anyone recommending that.

It's not much of an issue for me because I have spring water in my home and I use a non fluoride toothpaste. The reason I asked is because I'd really like to know.

-Jeff

Braggi

09-25-2008, 10:44 PM

https://www.sonic.net/kryptox/medicine/frac/hip.htm

Ah yes. John Lee. Well, Pooph, I've heard Dr. Lee numerous times on the radio talking about fluoride and also about progesterone cream. He was wrong about the progesterone cream but he didn't care because he made a lot of money selling it, which is unethical for an MD. Progesterone cream has failed in double blind studies, but that didn't stop Dr. Lee.

Dr. Lee has a way of reading his own results into medical studies and tends to ignore controls. I'll not follow all the studies he quotes unless I can find some more credible sources first.

-Jeff

phooph

09-25-2008, 11:29 PM

Ah yes. John Lee. Well, Pooph, I've heard Dr. Lee numerous times on the radio talking about fluoride and also about progesterone cream. He was wrong about the progesterone cream but he didn't care because he made a lot of money selling it, which is unethical for an MD. Progesterone cream has failed in double blind studies, but that didn't stop Dr. Lee.

Dr. Lee may have recommeded progesterone cream to his patients, but he had no financial interest in any of the manufacturers. He did sell a book about progesterone and other hormones which I have and which is a very good book on hormones. I have been using progesterone cream for years. At one time I thought it was probably a useless expense and stopped using it only to discover that it had been doing me a lot of good and being off of it was not so good, so now I continue to use it. BTW I never met him. I read his book after my sister in OK sent it to me in NM many years ago.

Dr. Lee has a way of reading his own results into medical studies and tends to ignore controls. I'll not follow all the studies he quotes unless I can find some more credible sources first.

-Jeff

Yes, once again you refuse to use the evidence that is presented to you, using the usual shoot the messenger tactic.

Braggi

09-26-2008, 06:49 AM

Dr. Lee may have recommeded progesterone cream to his patients, but he had no financial interest in any of the manufacturers. He did sell a book about progesterone and other hormones which I have and which is a very good book on hormones. I have been using progesterone cream for years. ...

He certainly advertised companies that sold the product on his radio show. I don't doubt your experience with it. It hasn't done well in double blind studies.

... Yes, once again you refuse to use the evidence that is presented to you, using the usual shoot the messenger tactic.

Phooph, I listened to his radio show numerous times and I've heard his message. What he doesn't consider in the studies he cites is that places where drinking water is fluoridated are also places where people in general, and women in particular, tend not to do much physical labor. It is weight bearing exercise that strengthens bones and nothing else. Not calcium, not vitamins, not milk, not anything. The only proven way to maintain bone health is through weight bearing exercise. John Lee didn't account for that in his reading of the studies. People who live in cities tend to have sedentary lifestyles and live longer lives, both of which are risk factors for osteoporosis.

Overweight people who drink fluoridated water don't have osteoporosis. They do weight bearing exercise every time they walk.

"Considering the source" is not the same as shooting the messenger and I believe John Lee believed what he was preaching and was sincere. I'd just like to hear corroboration. He was certainly correct about standard "hormone replacement therapy" being a bad idea. Of course, so was Dr. Dean Edell. Corroboration from credible sources. That's what I'd like to see.

-Jeff

OrchardDweller

09-26-2008, 09:25 AM

Can you post some links?
Well, gee, you certainly have all the propaganda of the anti fluoride gang down pat.
-Jeff

What is the ulterior motive of this "anti fluoride gang", if fluoride indeed is good for you?

phooph

09-26-2008, 09:29 AM

He certainly advertised companies that sold the product on his radio show. I don't doubt your experience with it. It hasn't done well in double blind studies.

My sister who is very wary of recommendations tainted by financial interest did a pretty thorough investigation of Dr. Lee and his relationship to manufacturers.

Phooph, I listened to his radio show numerous times and I've heard his message. What he doesn't consider in the studies he cites is that places where drinking water is fluoridated are also places where people in general, and women in particular, tend not to do much physical labor. It is weight bearing exercise that strengthens bones and nothing else. Not calcium, not vitamins, not milk, not anything. The only proven way to maintain bone health is through weight bearing exercise. John Lee didn't account for that in his reading of the studies. People who live in cities tend to have sedentary lifestyles and live longer lives, both of which are risk factors for osteoporosis.

Overweight people who drink fluoridated water don't have osteoporosis. They do weight bearing exercise every time they walk.

"Considering the source" is not the same as shooting the messenger and I believe John Lee believed what he was preaching and was sincere. I'd just like to hear corroboration. He was certainly correct about standard "hormone replacement therapy" being a bad idea. Of course, so was Dr. Dean Edell. Corroboration from credible sources. That's what I'd like to see.

-Jeff

I provided the link to Dr. Lee's article because it had several references in one place. There are other sources online but that would require a bunch of links.

I believe what you say about other factors such as lifestyle having an effect, however there are also incidences of naturally occurring fluoride having negative consequences, for instance sheep in New Zealand who's teeth were softened to the point of crumbling due to fluorosis. The danger is in getting too much, and what happens to children in hot dry climates who drink a lot of water? Anyone who is familiar with what happens to water purification systems that deliver periodic high doses of chlorine or chloramine into the water know that a constant rate of delivery is rare.

Here is an article excerpted from Chemical and Engineering news. https://www.fluoridealert.org/s-fluorosis.htm It mentions that there are other health effects besides the obvious skeletal fluorosis that occurs in those exposed to a constant does of fluoride. It also identifies the cumulitive nature of fluroide. Prior to it's being added to water supplies, fluroide compounds produced as waste in manufacturing were listed as a toxic, cumulitive poison which could not be dumped in lakes, streams and estuaries due to the cumulitive nature of the substance. It was disposed of as toxic waste at cost. It is now sold as an additive to water and dental products. Does one not see the financial incentive?

Braggi

09-26-2008, 11:15 AM

My sister who is very wary of recommendations tainted by financial interest did a pretty thorough investigation of Dr. Lee and his relationship to manufacturers. ...

I do think Dr. Lee was trying to do a service proposing the things he did. He's probably a good guy. I really don't mean to taint his reputation.

... fluroide compounds produced as waste in manufacturing were listed as a toxic, cumulitive poison which could not be dumped in lakes, streams and estuaries due to the cumulitive nature of the substance. It was disposed of as toxic waste at cost. It is now sold as an additive to water and dental products. Does one not see the financial incentive?

Oh yes, most certainly, and I don't trust the aluminum manufacturers any more than I do the chemical fertilizer companies who sell the stuff to the water agencies. It does have the appearance of a very crooked racket. I'm frankly appalled the pro fluoride industry doesn't have more studies proving the benefits of fluoridation. I've tried to find them. They are few and mostly old. Where is the modern research? This is billions of dollars we're spending and the fact is, most of that fluoridated water just goes down the toilet or onto lawns anyway. What percentage of it is consumed by humans?

OrchardDweller, just because I call something propaganda doesn't mean I'm calling it false. Propaganda is literature that supports your argument. However, when it becomes religion-like there is cause for scrutiny. The anti fluoride crowd has a few mantras they claim over and over and I think they have very little to support their claims. All the data they show that I have seen focuses on overdose levels. Agreed. Overdoses of just about anything, including water, is dangerous. Supposedly the "right" amount of fluoride is necessary for healthy tooth and bone development. Why Nature, in Her infinite wisdom, doesn't supply us with enough in our diets and in our ordinary non fluoridated water is up to the pro-fluoridation lobby to prove. I don't think they've done a good job of proving it.

I'll do more reading on the topic, and thanks for the additional links, Phooph.

At this point if I was in a town debating the merits of fluoridating city water, I'm still not sure which side I would come down on, but I'm leaning more and more away from fluoridation just based on the logic. It's certainly a pollutant and the benefits need to be more solidly proven. It seems like the benefits should be very clear and to me they're not.

-Jeff

Braggi

09-26-2008, 01:38 PM

... Here is an article excerpted from Chemical and Engineering news. https://www.fluoridealert.org/s-fluorosis.htm ...

This article is 20 years old and only finds problems with overdose, and those problems are few and inconclusive.

Here's a link to a pretty well supported statement from a credible organization with no obvious reason to lean one way or another.

https://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_3795_ENU_HTML.htm

-Jeff

phooph

09-26-2008, 04:24 PM

Jeff,

That seems to be a fairly thorough article. I might take issue with your assertion that it comes from an organization with no obvious reason to lean one way or the other, however.

My mother had an MS degree in nutrition and as a child who loved books, I found my mother's old college text books at one point. At the time I thought it interesting that they were published by the Betty Crocker Foundation. In fact I thought it was kind of cool. As an adult who has learned a lot more about vested interests, what I eventually realized was the food industry, and the marketers of junk food, have insinuated themselves into the education of the people who would be giving advice on nutrition. Same as what happens in medical education with drug companies.

My mother did the best she could with the information she was given, but I learned as an adult who'd struggled with health problems since childhood, that the diet she brought me up on was not good for me. I was able to improve my health by changing my diet to what the "health nuts" were promoting and not what the registered dieticians said was good.

My mother worked in a hospital, and hospital food is not the best way to eat. A friend of mine recently came down with some kind of blood cancer which eventually caused her kidneys to fail. She had to go on a special diet and a sheet of recommended foods was given to her. I have to say I was appalled at what was on that sheet of recommended foods. Crisco was one of them, a trans-fat so bad for your heath the state has considered banning it.

The Betty Crocker Foundation and other industry backed organizations have had an active role in nutrition education at all levels. When my children were in elementary school they took a home economics course. I had some conversations with the teacher who complained that most of the teaching materials were provided to the schools by the food manufacturers and promoted the consumption of highly processed, low nutrtition, low fiber foods loaded with salt, sugar, and trans-fats.

This article is 20 years old and only finds problems with overdose, and those problems are few and inconclusive.

Here's a link to a pretty well supported statement from a credible organization with no obvious reason to lean one way or another.

https://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_3795_ENU_HTML.htm

-Jeff

Barry

09-26-2008, 05:10 PM

I split of the fluoride posts into its own thread: Flouride in Drinking Water (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42738)

Braggi

09-26-2008, 07:39 PM

Jeff,

That seems to be a fairly thorough article. I might take issue with your assertion that it comes from an organization with no obvious reason to lean one way or the other, however. ...

As I said, no "obvious" reason ...

They do have a lot of support for their assertions and my dentist pretty much agrees although he's into topical use not putting it in water.

For all I know their website is funded by Alcoa. I don't know.

It's always buyer beware. However, I tend to side with science and real live studies over religious fervor and the big lie often and loudly repeated. On this issue the pro side appears to side with science and the con side with religious fervor. However, industry money often taints political issues, and this is certainly one with industrial money all over it.

Nothing is easy.

-Jeff

d-cat

09-26-2008, 08:45 PM

The generic name for the brand name Prozac is:

fluoxetine

other drugs containing fluoride are:
Rohypnol (flunitrazepam), Diflucan (fluconazole), Stelazine (Fluanxol).

Can't fix depressed people if they have bad teeth, now can we?

MsTerry

09-26-2008, 09:39 PM

Besides the first 3 letters being similar, can you show us the chemical connection?
Unless you think that oxymoron and oxygen are related?

The generic name for the brand name Prozac is:

fluoxetine

other drugs containing fluoride are:
Rohypnol (flunitrazepam), Diflucan (fluconazole), Stelazine (Fluanxol).

Can't fix depressed people if they have bad teeth, now can we?

Sylph

09-27-2008, 10:47 AM

Besides the first 3 letters being similar, can you show us the chemical connection?
Unless you think that oxymoron and oxygen are related?

There are a few atoms of flouride attached to SSRIs to help with absorption, but the fear-mongering claims by the anti-flouride people are out in left field.

Here is a paper about the anti-flouride literature:
https://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2222595 (https://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2222595)

The addition of the chemical fluorine to the water supply, called water fluoridation, reduces dental caries by making teeth more resistant to demineralisation and more likely to remineralise when initially decayed. This process has been implemented in more than 30 countries around the world, is cost-effective and has been shown to be efficacious in preventing decay across a person's lifespan. However, attempts to expand this major public health achievement in line with Australia's National Oral Health Plan 2004–2013 are almost universally met with considerable resistance from opponents of water fluoridation, who engage in coordinated campaigns to portray water fluoridation as ineffective and highly dangerous.

Water fluoridation opponents employ multiple techniques to try and undermine the scientifically established effectiveness of water fluoridation. The materials they use are often based on Internet resources or published books that present a highly misleading picture of water fluoridation. These materials are used to sway public and political opinion to the detriment of public health. Despite an extensive body of literature, both studies and results within studies are often selectively reported, giving a biased portrayal of water fluoridation effectiveness. Positive findings are downplayed or trivialised and the population implications of these findings misinterpreted. Ecological comparisons are sometimes used to support spurious conclusions. Opponents of water fluoridation frequently repeat that water fluoridation is associated with adverse health effects and studies are selectively picked from the extensive literature to convey only claimed adverse findings related to water fluoridation. Techniques such as "the big lie" and innuendo are used to associate water fluoridation with health and environmental disasters, without factual support. Half-truths are presented, fallacious statements reiterated, and attempts are made to bamboozle the public with a large list of claims and quotes often with little scientific basis. Ultimately, attempts are made to discredit and slander scientists and various health organisations that support water fluoridation.

Summary: Water fluoridation is an important public health initiative that has been found to be safe and effective. Nonetheless, the implementation of water fluoridation is still regularly interrupted by a relatively small group of individuals who use misinformation and rhetoric to induce doubts in the minds of the public and government officials. It is important that public health officials are aware of these tactics so that they can better counter their negative effect.

Sylph

09-27-2008, 12:36 PM

I'm curious, do the anti-flouride people stay away from green tea?

Tea plants accumulate fluoride in their leaves. In general, the oldest tea leaves contain the most fluoride (9) (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/tearefs.html#ref9). Most high quality teas are made from the bud or the first two to four leaves—the youngest leaves on the plant. Brick tea, a lower quality tea, is made from the oldest tea leaves and is often very high in fluoride. Symptoms of fluoride excess (i.e., dental and skeletal fluorosis) have been observed in Tibetan children and adults who consume large amounts of brick tea (10, 11) (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/tearefs.html#ref10). Unlike brick tea, fluoride levels in green, oolong, and black teas are generally comparable to those recommended for the prevention of dental caries (cavities). Thus, daily consumption of up to one liter of green, oolong, or black tea would be unlikely to result in fluoride intakes higher than those recommended for dental health (12, 13) (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/tearefs.html#ref12). The fluoride content of white tea is likely to be less than other teas, since white teas are made from the buds and youngest leaves of the tea plant. The fluoride contents of 17 brands of green, oolong, and black teas is presented in the table below (12) (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/tearefs.html#ref12). These values do not include the fluoride content of the water used to make the tea. https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/tea/

dancingstar

09-27-2008, 01:37 PM

People wanting to avoid fluoride in drinking water should know that Alhambra is currently advertising their water, "Now With Added Fluoride". The school I work at provides Alhambra water in those 5-gallon bottle dispensers. Probably many workplaces/offices do the same.

phooph

09-28-2008, 05:48 PM

I'm curious, do the anti-flouride people stay away from green tea?
teahttps://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/tea/

I guess you missed the part about brick tea being the problem. We don't drink brick tea in the US except among immigrants from brick tea drinking areas. I once bought some from an Asian market years ago but didn't like the taste.

According to the biological characteristics of the tea tree, fluorine can be selectively absorbed from soil by trees and accumulated in the leaves. When the growth period of tea trees is longer, the fluorine concentration in leaves is higher (1,2). Brick tea is considered to be one of life's necessities by Tibetans and other minority nationalities in western China. The fluorine concentration of brick tea is 200-300 times higher than ordinary green tea and black tea (3,4) because brick tea is made from old stems and leaves of the tea tree, but ordinary green tea and black tea are made from tender leaves and buds. It has been shown that the fluorine concentration of brick tea has no relationship with its method of preparation (5).

https://www.ehponline.org/docs/1996/104-12/cao.html

Sylph

09-28-2008, 07:57 PM

No, I didn't miss that point. Brick tea has huge amounts of fluoride but black tea has therapeutic amounts of fluoride, the amount that would be in fluoridated water, and green tea has even more. Instant tea is especially high in fluoride and, surprisingly, decaffeinated tea, is higher than non-decaffeinated tea in flouride.

Something from Dr. Weil that makes sense:
https://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA22857 (https://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA22857)

Both green and black tea contain fluoride, although green tea contains twice the amount found in black. However, I wouldn't worry about the fluoride you get from either type of tea because even with green tea, the amount that people drink is unlikely to supply enough fluoride to reach toxic levels. About 50 percent of fluoride (from any source) is deposited in the bone and teeth; the other half is excreted.
In general, I think concerns about fluoride are overblown. I've heard arguments against fluoride ranging from that it may cause bone cancer to the notion that putting fluoride in the water supply is a government plot to destroy our brains. High amounts of fluoride over several years can cause brittle bones, but this is extremely rare. Fluoride is toxic in very large quantities and can cause gastrointestinal symptoms and sometimes even death. But you'd have to ingest about 20,000 times more fluoride than what's in an 8-ounce glass of fluoridated water to see such an effect.

I'm gonna keep enjoying my green tea!

phooph

09-28-2008, 08:25 PM

Sylph

09-28-2008, 09:34 PM

I think the point is that we get fluoride in a lot of places. Why put it in the water too?

Answer- It used to be disposed of as toxic waste at cost. Now it is sold as a product.

I had my green tea today.

I think it's important to keep the fluoride issue in perspective. Especially in young children, the level needed to make strong teeth but avoid fluorosis is quite critical. Yes, there are many sources of fluoride, including toothpaste, processed foods.... and tea. I have learned quite a bit from this thread and it's been interesting!
Marin County and Healdsburg apparently fluoridate their water, but not most of Sonoma County. I wonder what the history is vis a vis activism on the issue?
Historically, water fluoridation has been a cost-effective public health measure that helps poor kids proportionally more than advantaged ones. Seems to me we still have plenty of disadvantaged kids in Sonoma County and elsewhere who could benefit from better teeth.

Here's more on tea. Seems like it would be a good anti-cavity mouthwash!

https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0300571200000543 (https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0300571200000543)
This study has demonstrated that tea can provide an effective vehicle for fluoride delivery to the oral cavity where it may interact with the oral tissues and their surface integuments. This may lead to local topical effects of the ingested fluoride as well as systemic effects following oral and gastro-intestinal absorption.

Becky

09-28-2008, 10:04 PM

I just wanted to say this thread is very interesting and I have enjoyed reading all the posts.

I get sick from drinking LA tap water for over 10 years that now I can only have bottled water. weird i know. but that said if we did drink tap I am not sure if that is what i want my daughters to be drinking. It seems that we have no control over the amounts of fluoride that is consumed through drinking tap water which IMO is just not right.

I really don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. Thanks for posting everyone :thumbsup:

Braggi

09-28-2008, 10:12 PM

... Here's more on tea. Seems like it would be a good anti-cavity mouthwash!
... This study has demonstrated that tea can provide an effective vehicle for fluoride delivery to the oral cavity where it may interact with the oral tissues and their surface integuments. ...

That's one of the things I love about Waccobb. I frequently learn new words here.

integument: 1. A natural outer covering or coat, such as the skin of an animal or the membrane enclosing an organ.
2. Botany The envelope of an ovule.

Thanks, Sylph.

-Jeff

Sylph

09-29-2008, 01:03 AM

That's one of the things I love about Waccobb. I frequently learn new words here.

integument: 1. A natural outer covering or coat, such as the skin of an animal or the membrane enclosing an organ.
2. Botany The envelope of an ovule.

Thanks, Sylph.

-Jeff

You're welcome! I didn't know what integument meant exactly, either! Thanks for the definition.

I have some really bad news for all of the oenophiles....
Fluoride is in wine, too! Mostly due to a common pesticide....
I can't afford to drink strictly organic wine!

Here's what the USDA reports for the concentration of fluoride (ppm):
1.15 Tea, green, brewed (23 samples)
2.72 Tea, green, decaffeinated, brewed (10 samples)
3.73 Tea, black, brewed, regular, all (63 samples)
1.05 Wine, red (14 samples)
2.02 Wine, white (17 samples)
2.13 Grape juice, white (12 samples)
2.34 Raisins (1 sample)

Note that 1 ppm = 1 mg/l = 0.24 mg per 8 ounce cup

MsTerry

09-29-2008, 08:51 AM

LMAO
thanks for posting the PPM's!
I am on well water, and the natural water is so acidic that it eats away my teeth. (nopunintended) I was always opposed to fluoride, wanting to do things natural, but my teeth were getting so sensitive that i was willing to try the evil elixir.
Now I have extra strength, prescription fluoride!
It is 1,1 ppm, that is less than green tea!
LOL

You're welcome! I didn't know what integument meant exactly, either! Thanks for the definition.

I have some really bad news for all of the oenophiles....
Fluoride is in wine, too! Mostly due to a common pesticide....
I can't afford to drink strictly organic wine!

Here's what the USDA reports for the concentration of fluoride (ppm):
1.15 Tea, green, brewed (23 samples)
2.72 Tea, green, decaffeinated, brewed (10 samples)
3.73 Tea, black, brewed, regular, all (63 samples)
1.05 Wine, red (14 samples)
2.02 Wine, white (17 samples)
2.13 Grape juice, white (12 samples)
2.34 Raisins (1 sample)

Note that 1 ppm = 1 mg/l = 0.24 mg per 8 ounce cup

d-cat

09-29-2008, 11:31 AM

Media Cries Foul When County Stops Fluoridating Water

https://www.naturalnews.com/024271.html

mykil

09-29-2008, 02:56 PM

Sylph

09-29-2008, 03:03 PM

I myself have quit using fluoride toothpaste a few years back; I just don't trust the stuff. There is allot to be said about the mind control issues and that it is a bi-product of making metal without a means of disposal, so they put it i nth water???? Not for me I do not even drink water I think may be associated with Fluoride!! My filter takes it out and I like it that way!!!! Just say no to fluoride!!!!! Toms makes a few fluoride free products that are really nice!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Do you have reverse osmosis or a distilling system? Simple filters don't take fluoride out.
This has been really eye-opening for me. Here is another very interesting site...watch out for fish, cereal, beer, lettuce...the list goes on and on!

https://www.fluoridealert.org/f-sources.htm

OrchardDweller

09-29-2008, 08:07 PM

Media Cries Foul When County Stops Fluoridating Water

https://www.naturalnews.com/024271.html

Very interesting article... Here's an excerpt:

After a commercial break it was revealed that the "natural" element they were referring to was Sodium Fluoride. The idea that the fluoride added to municipal water supplies is "natural" is a common myth. While the Calcium Fluoride molecule is the 5th most abundant component of the Earth’s crust, it is Sodium Fluoride (Sodium Hexafluorosilicate), a toxic by-product of Aluminum production and other industries, that is added to the drinking water of most states in the U.S.

Sylph

09-30-2008, 01:15 PM

Very interesting article... Here's an excerpt:

After a commercial break it was revealed that the "natural" element they were referring to was Sodium Fluoride. The idea that the fluoride added to municipal water supplies is "natural" is a common myth. While the Calcium Fluoride molecule is the 5th most abundant component of the Earth’s crust, it is Sodium Fluoride (Sodium Hexafluorosilicate), a toxic by-product of Aluminum production and other industries, that is added to the drinking water of most states in the U.S.

That quote is pretty skewed. Fluoride is 'natural' in some areas because it comes from a rock in the ground. The fluoride in tea is 'natural', the plant takes it up and concentrates it in the leaves. No matter where it comes from it (the fluoride ion) has the same effects, good or bad, on the body. Too much of many elements/minerals/vitamins/chemicals are harmful. This is the history of the discovery of the helpful effects of fluoride on teeth from Wiki:

While the use of fluorides for prevention of dental caries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_caries) (cavities) was discussed in the 19th century in Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe),<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-4>[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-4)</SUP> community water fluoridation in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) owes its origin in part to the research of Dr. Frederick McKay, who pressed the dental community for an investigation into what was then known as "Colorado brown stain."<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-csdshistory_5-0>[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-csdshistory-5)</SUP> The condition, now known as dental fluorosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis), when in its severe form is characterized by cracking and pitting of the teeth.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-6>[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-6)</SUP><SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-7>[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-7)</SUP><SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-8>[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-8)</SUP> Of 2,945 children examined in 1909 by Dr. McKay, 87.5% had some degree of stain or mottling. All the affected children were from the Pikes Peak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikes_Peak) region. Despite the negative impact on the physical appearance of their teeth, the children with stained, mottled and pitted teeth also had fewer cavities than other children. McKay brought the problem to the attention of Dr. G.V. Black (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greene_Vardiman_Black), and Black's interest into the Colorado stain led to greater interest throughout the dental profession.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg/200px-McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg) https://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg)
Photograph of Dr. G.V. Black (left) and Drs. Isaac Burton and F. Y. Wilson, 1909, studying the "Colorado Brown Stain" (picture taken by McKay, printed in Douglas W.A.:"History of dentistry in Colorado, 1859-1959").

Initial hypotheses for the staining included poor nutrition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition), overconsumption of pork (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork) or milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk), radium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium) exposure, childhood diseases (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_childhood_diseases), or a calcium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium) deficiency in the local drinking water.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-csdshistory_5-1>[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-csdshistory-5)</SUP> In 1931, researchers from the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) finally concluded that the cause of the Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado) stain was a high concentration of fluoride ions in the region's drinking water (ranging from 2 to 13.7 ppm) and areas with lower concentrations had no staining (1 ppm or less).<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-9>[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-9)</SUP> Pikes Peak's rock formations contained the mineral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral) cryolite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryolite), one of whose constituents is fluorine. As the rain and snow fell, the resulting runoff water dissolved fluoride which made its way into the water supply.

shellebelle

09-30-2008, 01:56 PM

I thought this article was interesting.

https://www.pr-inside.com/fluoridation-tea-do-not-mix-r836098.htm

Fluoride added to water supplies puts tea drinkers at health risk

Fluoridation & Tea Do Not Mix, Studies Continue to Show

2008-09-30 14:17:43 - Tea contains naturally high levels of bone-damaging fluoride

d-cat

09-30-2008, 06:42 PM

This is the history of the discovery of the helpful effects of fluoride on teeth from Wiki:

anyone who uses Wikipedia should be aware of this:

https://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/08/wiki_tracker

if the subject is something the CIA (or others) might not want you to know, I would never rely on Wikipedia. I've seen many examples of censorship/omissions on Wiki. This is not a comment on any particular info posted here, just info on Wikipedia for people who use it.

sharingwisdom

10-01-2008, 12:36 AM

I was a dental hygienist for 26 years and did a tremendous amount of research on fluoride back in the 70's and have continued to study this subject. I was certainly bucking the ADA boys years ago when I decided to talk to mother's groups, educating them to stop giving fluoride tablets and treatments to their children. I saw children vomit after fluoride treatments and refused to give them after realizing the toxic affect that was occurring. I was lucky enough to work for holistic dentists in Sonoma county that supported my research. I, myself, have dental fluorsis (mottled teeth) from growing up in a fluoridated area on the East Coast.

Fluoride development is very political. I actually have books from the 1940's talking about the dangers of fluoride by dentists who hadn't been taken over by the Alcoa Aluminum Industry. Fluoride was used in the Nazi concentration camps to keep the prisoners docile and compliant. How convenient to put it in our water.
https://www.befreetech.com/fluoridation.htm

Much of the original proof that fluoride is safe for humans in low doses was generated by A-bomb program scientists who had been secretly ordered to provide "evidence useful in litigation" against defence contractors for fluoride injury to citizens. The first lawsuits against the American A-bomb program were not over radiation, but over fluoride damage, the documents show. Human studies were required. Bomb program researchers played a leading role in the design and implementation of the most extensive US study of the health effects of fluoridating public drinking water, conducted in Newburgh, New York, from 1945 to 1955. Then, in a classified operation code-named "Program F", they secretly gathered and analysed blood and tissue samples from Newburgh citizens with the cooperation of New York State Health Department personnel. The original, secret version of a study published by Program F scientists in the August 1948 Journal of the American Dental Association1 shows that evidence of adverse health effects from fluoride was censored by the US Atomic Energy Commission (AEC)-considered the most powerful of Cold War agencies-for reasons of "national security". The bomb program's fluoride safety studies were conducted at the University of Rochester-site of one of the most notorious human radiation experiments of the Cold War, in which unsuspecting hospital patients were injected with toxic doses of radioactive plutonium. The fluoride studies were conducted with the same ethical mindset, in which "national security" was paramount.
https://www.rense.com/health/alertflo.htm

Calcium fluroide is NOT absorbed in the body the same as Stannous or Sodium Fluoride. <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJudy%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style>The types of fluoride used to treat water systems, fluosilicic acid and sodium silicofluoride, are actually untreated hazardous waste from the phosphate fertilizer industry. Sodium Fluoride is rat poisoning. It comes with the skull and cross bone symbol right on the bottle. It is even listed in the Merck manual (standard manual used by physicians on disease and toxins) as a lethal poison.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJudy%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype>We are exposed to fluoride via far more sources than just drinking water. Many of the processed foods and beverages sold in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> contain high levels of fluoride because they are made using fluoridated water supplies. Further, the processing these foods undergo often has the effect of concentrating the fluoride. Food types with particularly high levels of fluoride include processed cereals, juices from concentrate, and soda. Mechanically deboned chicken is also a key source of concern. That’s because fluoridated water used on farms and to process animal feeds accumulates in animal bones, and chicken bones are especially brittle. As chicken is mechanically deboned, the deboning machine grinds significant portions of these fragile bones into a powder which then infiltrates the finished product. As a result, processed chicken products often have elevated levels of fluoride. (Mechanically deboned turkey and beef products aren’t nearly as much of an issue because their bones are much stronger.) Researchers studying the problem found that chicken-based infant foods have the highest fluoride levels found in this category of food, followed by chicken nugget/finger-type products, lunch meats, and canned meats.

<style>  </style><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJudy%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"></o:smarttagtype>Remarkably, fluorinated drinking water has not been shown to have any effect on tooth decay or the incidence of cavities. Tooth decay rates in <st1:place w:st="on">Western Europe</st1:place>, where 98% of the population drinks unfluoridated water, have declined as much and even more in some locales as rates in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> since fluoridation began. <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">British Columbia</st1:place></st1:state>, where about 10% of the population drinks fluoridated water compared to 40-70% in the other provinces, has the lowest rates of tooth decay in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>. In the largest fluoridation study ever undertaken, the National Institute of Dental Research tracked 39,000 children between the ages of 5 and 17. The results? No statistically significant differences in the dental health between children serviced by unfluoridated and fluoridated water systems. Though fluoridation advocates commonly point out that public dental health in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> has improved markedly since fluoridation began, many experts attribute this positive development not to treated water supplies but to increased public education and greatly improved dental hygiene practices being adopted by more and more Americans.
https://www.fluoridealert.org/

I really recommend this excellent video by BBC correspondent, Christorpher Bryson and author of The Fluoride Deception.

<style>  </style>https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4336262446047063653&q=The +Fluoride+Deception&total=34&start=0&num=10&so=0 &type=search&plindex=4 (https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4336262446047063653&q=The%20+Fluoride+Deception&total=34&start=0&num=10&so=0%20&type=search&plindex=4)

In awareness and healing, jd 


That quote is pretty skewed. Fluoride [I]is 'natural' in some areas because it comes from a rock in the ground. The fluoride in tea is 'natural', the plant takes it up and concentrates it in the leaves. No matter where it comes from it (the fluoride ion) has the same effects, good or bad, on the body. Too much of many elements/minerals/vitamins/chemicals are harmful. This is the history of the discovery of the helpful effects of fluoride on teeth from Wiki:

While the use of fluorides for prevention of dental caries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_caries) (cavities) was discussed in the 19th century in Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe),<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-4">[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-4)</sup> community water fluoridation in the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) owes its origin in part to the research of Dr. Frederick McKay, who pressed the dental community for an investigation into what was then known as "Colorado brown stain."<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-csdshistory_5-0">[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-csdshistory-5)</sup> The condition, now known as dental fluorosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis), when in its severe form is characterized by cracking and pitting of the teeth.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-6">[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-6)</sup><sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-7">[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-7)</sup><sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-8">[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-8)</sup> Of 2,945 children examined in 1909 by Dr. McKay, 87.5% had some degree of stain or mottling. All the affected children were from the Pikes Peak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikes_Peak) region. Despite the negative impact on the physical appearance of their teeth, the children with stained, mottled and pitted teeth also had fewer cavities than other children. McKay brought the problem to the attention of Dr. G.V. Black (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greene_Vardiman_Black), and Black's interest into the Colorado stain led to greater interest throughout the dental profession.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg/200px-McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg) https://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:McKayandBlackCDC01.jpg)
Photograph of Dr. G.V. Black (left) and Drs. Isaac Burton and F. Y. Wilson, 1909, studying the "Colorado Brown Stain" (picture taken by McKay, printed in Douglas W.A.:"History of dentistry in Colorado, 1859-1959").

Initial hypotheses for the staining included poor nutrition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition), overconsumption of pork (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork) or milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk), radium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium) exposure, childhood diseases (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_childhood_diseases), or a calcium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium) deficiency in the local drinking water.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-csdshistory_5-1">[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-csdshistory-5)</sup> In 1931, researchers from the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) finally concluded that the cause of the Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado) stain was a high concentration of fluoride ions in the region's drinking water (ranging from 2 to 13.7 ppm) and areas with lower concentrations had no staining (1 ppm or less).<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-9">[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-9)</sup> Pikes Peak's rock formations contained the mineral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral) cryolite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryolite), one of whose constituents is fluorine. As the rain and snow fell, the resulting runoff water dissolved fluoride which made its way into the water supply.

d-cat

10-02-2008, 09:24 PM

...In awareness and healing, jd

Thank you for that great info Sharing Wisdom!

Now, people may want to look into....

ASPARTAME

phooph

10-03-2008, 12:03 AM

Thank you for that great info Sharing Wisdom!

Now, people may want to look into....

ASPARTAME
Probably the one of the largest websites on the subject put up by a distant cousin of mine: https://www.dorway.com/
Enter at your peril.

d-cat

10-11-2008, 01:48 PM

USE OF ASPARTAME BY PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES
https://www.wnho.net/use_of_aspartame.htm

Epilepsy Study Incriminates Aspartame in Medications
https://www.opednews.com/articles/Epilepsy-Study-Incriminate-by-Dr--GLEN-MABSON--P-080718-636.html

Aspartame promotes grand mal seizures, say health experts
https://www.naturalnews.com/008952.html

Kidney Patients Should be Notified of Potential Risk from Fluorides and Fluoridated Drinking Water
https://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_12710.cfm

Lawsuits threatened over forced fluoride
https://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=67360

'St John's Wort plant as effective as Prozac for treating depression', say scientists
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1072414/St-Johns-Wort-plant-effective-Prozac-treating-depression-say-scientists.html

d-cat

10-13-2008, 09:03 PM

https://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/445759543_da2cbcaf8b.jpg

https://www.burlingtonnews.net/vaccty_dees.jpg

Awareness to the dangerous side-effects and deadly consequences of vaccines is growing exponentially. This research archive is a compilation of information concerning mercury in vaccines, their link to autism, other vaccine controversies, and the nationwide hoax that vaccines are mandatory.

https://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/vaccines/index.htm

Sylph

10-14-2008, 12:12 AM

Awareness to the dangerous side-effects and deadly consequences of vaccines is growing exponentially. This research archive is a compilation of information concerning mercury in vaccines, their link to autism, other vaccine controversies, and the nationwide hoax that vaccines are mandatory.

https://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/vaccines/index.htm[/quote]

Oh boy! I'm not sure I even want to get involved with this hot topic. Here is a very good argument by a nerdy science guy. Bad production values, good solid information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQB8decrxE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQB8decrxE)

Sylph

10-14-2008, 12:15 AM

Re pertussis:

https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html (https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html)
Anti-Vaccination Fever

The Shot Hurt Around the World

Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, and alternative medical practitioners fanned the fires created by questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics of a disease (pertussis) that had almost been forgotten.

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 07:11 AM

Sylph

10-14-2008, 09:58 AM

To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners in one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible.

I respectfully suggest you may not have read the article. Fanning the flames of vaccine fears is irresponsible, as it results in dead children, as has been shown over and over in countries where parents stop having their kids vaccinated:

….That ink was barely dry when the first wave struck. Australia's 1994 epidemic logged more than 5,000 cases(of pertussis). The second wave reached Australian shores three years later. This time, nearly 10,699 cases and nine infant deaths were reported. In the 2000-2001 Australian epidemic (figure 4), by November 6, 2001, 7,185 cases and two infant deaths had been recorded (Gangarosa et al. 1998, Kingsley 2001). In this latest outbreak, the Hunter Public Health Unit in Hunter Valley, New South Wales, reported, "About 30 percent of cases in Hunter Valley have been among 10 to 19 year olds." Australian children past eight years old aren't vaccinated against pertussis "because of concerns about the possible side effects of the vaccine beyond this age" (ABC Science Online 2000). Distorted numbers, confusion of correlation with causation, and statistical innumeracy certainly played roles in this sad story. Sensationalist media campaigns fanned the glowing embers. But in each of the countries that experienced the raging fires of epidemics there were other forces at work. Most prominent in passive anti-vaccination movements were religious groups whose opposition was based on religious or moral grounds. Prominent in both passive and active anti-vaccination movements are followers and practitioners of homeopathy, chiropractic, and natural and alternative medicine (Gangarosa et al. 1998).
https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 10:10 AM

I respectfully suggest that you remove that inflammatory, self-righteous quote and leave just the link to the article!

I respectfully suggest you may not have read the article.l (https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html)

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 10:22 AM

Sylph,
in 1997, 9 deaths out of 10,699 cases were allegedly linked to pertussis
in 2001, 2 deaths out of 7,185 cases were allegedly linked to pertussis
Do you know how statistically insignificant this is? 0.01%???
How many children died in the same period due to vaccines?
How many died from complications due to vaccines?
How many died from infections due to improper administration of vaccines?
Now where does this pertusis come from?
Is it possible that travel and immigration is spreading it rather than non-vaccination?

….That ink was barely dry when the first wave struck. Australia's 1994 epidemic logged more than 5,000 cases(of pertussis). The second wave reached Australian shores three years later. This time, nearly 10,699 cases and nine infant deaths were reported. In the 2000-2001 Australian epidemic (figure 4), by November 6, 2001, 7,185 cases and two infant deaths had been recorded (Gangarosa et al. 1998, Kingsley 2001). In this latest outbreak, the Hunter Public Health Unit in Hunter Valley, New South Wales, reported, "About 30 percent of cases in Hunter Valley have been among 10 to 19 year olds." Australian children past eight years old aren't vaccinated against pertussis "because of concerns about the possible side effects of the vaccine beyond this age" (ABC Science Online 2000). Distorted numbers, confusion of correlation with causation, and statistical innumeracy certainly played roles in this sad story. Sensationalist media campaigns fanned the glowing embers. But in each of the countries that experienced the raging fires of epidemics there were other forces at work. Most prominent in passive anti-vaccination movements were religious groups whose opposition was based on religious or moral grounds. Prominent in both passive and active anti-vaccination movements are followers and practitioners of homeopathy, chiropractic, and natural and alternative medicine (Gangarosa et al. 1998).
https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html

Sylph

10-14-2008, 11:55 AM

Ms Terry quipped: "To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitionersin one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible."

I’m sorry you interpreted ‘respectfully’ as self-righteous and demeaning to you. I intended it to be polite and non-confrontational. I suggested you may not have read the article because the answer to your accusation above was in the article. You seem to delight in misinterpreting my motives. My deepest apologies, nonetheless.

A ‘statistically tiny’ number of deaths (from pertussis in Australia), perhaps, but how devastating for the parent who understands too late that the death was preventable with a vaccine.

Where does it come from? It seems to be in our human environment, just waiting for an unvaccinated population to invade. Measles is often brought by immigrants or travelers, but pertussis is lurking amongst us natives.

And here is a description of what the thousands of survivors of the disease endured:

Neither the common nor the Latin name give any indication that the hacking cough and haunting whoop are often followed by vomiting. Nor does either name indicate that this distressing paroxysmal phase can last up to four weeks, and that this phase, in which the victim most clearly needs constant assistance, cruelly is also the phase in which this deadly disease is the most highly contagious. Since highly and deadly are relative terms, I should tell you that pertussis infections occur in 70 to 100 percent of all unimmunized household contacts that have been exposed to an infected person (CDNANZ 1997). In 1931, before immunization, pertussis was responsible for 1.3 percent of all deaths in England and Wales (Research Defence Society 1999).
You have probably imagined an adult victim while reading thus far. In fact, before an effective vaccine became available, pertussis had been a worldwide leading cause of infant deaths. Before the 1940s, it was a major cause of infant and child morbidity and mortality in the U.S. (CDC 2002). From 1890 to 1940, in New South Wales, whooping cough killed more children under five than diphtheria. It was second only to gastroenteritis as a cause of infant deaths (Hamilton 1979).
In Sydney, Australia's, Royal Alexandria Hospital for Children alone, eighty-five died in 1940: "A whole 30-bed ward was filled for months with these poor little ones. Most of those admitted were young. The older ones were not in great danger and stayed at home, going on for seemingly endless weeks with their distressing spasms of breath-robbing cough ending in a vomit or choking whoop" (Hamilton 1979).
The force of pertussis coughing is so severe that many patients develop facial suffusions (discolorations), and small hemorrhages in the skin or conjunctivae. The coughing alone can also lead to hernias, rectal prolapse (protrusion of the rectal mucous membrane or sphincter muscle through the anus), or even hypoxic encephalopathy (degenerative disease of the brain). An adult can literally cough his way into a proctologist's or neurologist's office. Vomit, food particles, or mucous aspired while whooping can result in secondary pneumonia infection. Some children even become malnourished because they literally can't stop coughing long enough to eat. And some, usually infants, die (Malleson et al. 1977; CDNANZ 1997).

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 02:08 PM

Sylph,
I'm sorry to see you getting so snide with me while misinterpreting my motives and at the same time telling me that I am misinterpreting your motives. LOL
So, Let me spell it out for you.

I respectfully suggest that you remove that inflammatory, self-righteous quote and leave just the link to the article!

As you can see, (and I do hope you will read the quote even though it is out of context) self-righteous refers to the quote you posted. It is a dishonest and misleading statement since it links (a)Sensationalist media, (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners.
That is inflammatory
Since you choose to leave the quote, one can only assume that this what you stand for.
Since this "Ms Terry quipped" is part of your response, I must surmise that your apologies are neither deep nor sincere.
Nevertheless, I wish you all the best, with or without vaccines.

Ms Terry quipped: "To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners in one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible."

I’m sorry you interpreted ‘respectfully’ as self-righteous and demeaning to you. I intended it to be polite and non-confrontational. I suggested you may not have read the article because the answer to your accusation above was in the article. You seem to delight in misinterpreting my motives. My deepest apologies, nonetheless.

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 02:15 PM

ANY child dying is a heart-breaker!
Whether it comes from vaccines, poor hygiene at the hospital, wrong prescriptions or wrong diagnosis.
When the numbers are soo low that they don't show statistically, there is no crisis or epidemic.
Still, ANY child dying is a heart-breaker!

A ‘statistically tiny’ number of deaths (from pertussis in Australia), perhaps, but how devastating for the parent who understands too late that the death was preventable with a vaccine.

Where does it come from? It seems to be in our human environment, just waiting for an unvaccinated population to invade. Measles is often brought by immigrants or travelers, but pertussis is lurking amongst us natives.

And here is a description of what the thousands of survivors of the disease endured:

Sylph

10-14-2008, 08:05 PM

Sylph,
I'm sorry to see you getting so snide with me while misinterpreting my motives and at the same time telling me that I am misinterpreting your motives. LOL
So, Let me spell it out for you.

As you can see, (and I do hope you will read the quote even though it is out of context) self-righteous refers to the quote you posted. It is a dishonest and misleading statement since it links (a)Sensationalist media, (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners.
That is inflammatory
Since you choose to leave the quote, one can only assume that this what you stand for.
Since this "Ms Terry quipped" is part of your response, I must surmise that your apologies are neither deep nor sincere.
Nevertheless, I wish you all the best, with or without vaccines.

In the article I referenced about Australia/Pertussis, some alternative practitioners, in concert with sensationalist media were actively discouraging immunization to the detriment of public health in that area. My quote was directly from the article and was accurate re. the situation. Did I criticize all alternative practitioners?
As for what I stand for: I stand for saving lives. Vaccines cause harm on occasion, without a doubt, and that is tragic. However, many, many more children have been saved by vaccines than harmed. Check out the risk/benefit ratio. Some alternative practitioners, sincere as they may be, are harming children by discouraging vaccines.
"Quip": sarcastic or witty comment. Your specialty, no? You are quite sensitive, if I may say so (without upsetting you)!
Even though you call me "snide" without knowing me or my motives, I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.:heart:

Braggi

10-14-2008, 08:50 PM

In the article I referenced about Australia/Pertussis, some alternative practitioners, in concert with sensationalist media were actively discouraging immunization to the detriment of public health in that area. ... I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.:heart:

You are a Love Sylph. Thanks for posting.

-Jeff

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 09:37 PM

This is disingenuous, Sylph
some alternative practitioners???
you never used the word SOME in your quote, besides that you are still linking them with (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics
there are no worldwide epidemics.
Since you stand for saving lives, why don'tyou read the following

The Vaccine-Autism Court Document Every American Should Read (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-vaccineautism-court-_b_88558.html)[/B]

Posted February 26, 2008 | 02:38 PM (EST)

<hr>
Read More: Autism (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/autism), Autism Spectrum Disorder (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/autism-spectrum-disorder), Autism Thimerosal (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/autism-thimerosal), Autism Vaccines (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/autism-vaccines), Concession (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/concession), Hhs (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/hhs), Kennedy Krieger (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/kennedy-krieger), Mitochondria (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/mitochondria), Oxydative Phosphorylation (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/oxydative-phosphorylation), Thimerosal (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/thimerosal), Vaccine (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/vaccine), Vaccine Court (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/vaccine-court), Breaking Living News (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/living)

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 Below is a verbatim copy of the US Government concession filed last November in a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims, with the names of the family redacted. It is the subject of my post yesterday. (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html)
Every American should read this document, and interpret for themselves what they think their government is trying to say about the relationship, if any, between immunizations and a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.

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If you feel this document suggests that some kind of link may be possible, you might consider forwarding it to your elected representatives for further investigation.
But, of course, if you feel that this document in no way implicates vaccines, then let's just keep going about our business as usual and not pay any attention to all those sick kids behind the curtain.

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
OFFICE OF SPECIAL MASTERS
CHILD, a minor,
by her Parents and Natural Guardians,
Petitioners,
v.
SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES,
Respondent.
RESPONDENT'S RULE 4(c) REPORT
In accordance with RCFC, Appendix B, Vaccine Rule 4(c), the Secretary of Health and Human Services submits the following response to the petition for compensation filed in this case.
FACTS
CHILD ("CHILD") was born on December --, 1998, and weighed eight pounds, ten ounces. Petitioners' Exhibit ("Pet. Ex.") 54 at 13. The pregnancy was complicated by gestational diabetes. Id. at 13. CHILD received her first Hepatitis B immunization on December 27, 1998. Pet. Ex. 31 at 2.
From January 26, 1999 through June 28, 1999, CHILD visited the Pediatric Center, in Catonsville, Maryland, for well-child examinations and minor complaints, including fever and eczema. Pet. Ex. 31 at 5-10, 19. During this time period, she received the following pediatric vaccinations, without incident:

Vaccine Dates Administered
Hep B 12/27/98; 1/26/99
IPV 3/12/99; 4/27/99
Hib 3/12/99; 4/27/99; 6/28/99
DTaP 3/12/99; 4/27/99; 6/28/99
Id. at 2.
At seven months of age, CHILD was diagnosed with bilateral otitis media. Pet. Ex. 31 at 20. In the subsequent months between July 1999 and January 2000, she had frequent bouts of otitis media, which doctors treated with multiple antibiotics. Pet. Ex. 2 at 4. On December 3,1999, CHILD was seen by Karl Diehn, M.D., at Ear, Nose, and Throat Associates of the Greater Baltimore Medical Center ("ENT Associates"). Pet. Ex. 31 at 44. Dr. Diehn recommend that CHILD receive PE tubes for her "recurrent otitis media and serious otitis." Id. CHILD received PE tubes in January 2000. Pet. Ex. 24 at 7. Due to CHILD's otitis media, her mother did not allow CHILD to receive the standard 12 and 15 month childhood immunizations. Pet. Ex. 2 at 4.
According to the medical records, CHILD consistently met her developmental milestones during the first eighteen months of her life. The record of an October 5, 1999 visit to the Pediatric Center notes that CHILD was mimicking sounds, crawling, and sitting. Pet. Ex. 31 at 9. The record of her 12-month pediatric examination notes that she was using the words "Mom" and "Dad," pulling herself up, and cruising. Id. at 10.
At a July 19, 2000 pediatric visit, the pediatrician observed that CHILD "spoke well" and was "alert and active." Pet. Ex. 31 at 11. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had regular bowel movements and slept through the night. Id. At the July 19, 2000 examination, CHILD received five vaccinations - DTaP, Hib, MMR, Varivax, and IPV. Id. at 2, 11.
According to her mother's affidavit, CHILD developed a fever of 102.3 degrees two days after her immunizations and was lethargic, irritable, and cried for long periods of time. Pet. Ex. 2 at 6. She exhibited intermittent, high-pitched screaming and a decreased response to stimuli. Id. MOM spoke with the pediatrician, who told her that CHILD was having a normal reaction to her immunizations. Id. According to CHILD's mother, this behavior continued over the next ten days, and CHILD also began to arch her back when she cried. Id.
On July 31, 2000, CHILD presented to the Pediatric Center with a 101-102 degree temperature, a diminished appetite, and small red dots on her chest. Pet. Ex. 31 at 28. The nurse practitioner recorded that CHILD was extremely irritable and inconsolable. Id. She was diagnosed with a post-varicella vaccination rash. Id. at 29.
Two months later, on September 26, 2000, CHILD returned to the Pediatric Center with a temperature of 102 degrees, diarrhea, nasal discharge, a reduced appetite, and pulling at her left ear. Id. at 29. Two days later, on September 28, 2000, CHILD was again seen at the Pediatric Center because her diarrhea continued, she was congested, and her mother reported that CHILD was crying during urination. Id. at 32. On November 1, 2000, CHILD received bilateral PE tubes. Id. at 38. On November 13, 2000, a physician at ENT Associates noted that CHILD was "obviously hearing better" and her audiogram was normal. Id. at 38. On November 27, 2000, CHILD was seen at the Pediatric Center with complaints of diarrhea, vomiting, diminished energy, fever, and a rash on her cheek. Id. at 33. At a follow-up visit, on December 14, 2000, the doctor noted that CHILD had a possible speech delay. Id.
CHILD was evaluated at the Howard County Infants and Toddlers Program, on November 17, 2000, and November 28, 2000, due to concerns about her language development. Pet. Ex. 19 at 2, 7. The assessment team observed deficits in CHILD's communication and social development. Id. at 6. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had become less responsive to verbal direction in the previous four months and had lost some language skills. Id. At 2.
On December 21, 2000, CHILD returned to ENT Associates because of an obstruction in her right ear and fussiness. Pet. Ex. 31 at 39. Dr. Grace Matesic identified a middle ear effusion and recorded that CHILD was having some balance issues and not progressing with her speech. Id. On December 27, 2000, CHILD visited ENT Associates, where Dr. Grace Matesic observed that CHILD's left PE tube was obstructed with crust. Pet. Ex. 14 at 6. The tube was replaced on January 17, 2001. Id.
Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a pediatric neurologist, evaluated CHILD at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic ("Krieger Institute"), on February 8, 2001. Pet. Ex. 25 at 1. Dr. Zimmerman reported that after CHILD's immunizations of July 19, 2000, an "encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss of previously acquired language, eye contact, and relatedness." Id. He noted a disruption in CHILD's sleep patterns, persistent screaming and arching, the development of pica to foreign objects, and loose stools. Id. Dr. Zimmerman observed that CHILD watched the fluorescent lights repeatedly during the examination and
would not make eye contact. Id. He diagnosed CHILD with "regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." Id. At 2. Dr. Zimmerman ordered genetic testing, a magnetic resonance imaging test ("MRI"), and an electroencephalogram ("EEG"). Id.
Dr. Zimmerman referred CHILD to the Krieger Institute's Occupational Therapy Clinic and the Center for Autism and Related Disorders ("CARDS"). Pet. Ex. 25 at 40. She was evaluated at the Occupational Therapy Clinic by Stacey Merenstein, OTR/L, on February 23, 2001. Id. The evaluation report summarized that CHILD had deficits in "many areas of sensory processing which decrease[d] her ability to interpret sensory input and influence[d] her motor performance as a result." Id. at 45. CHILD was evaluated by Alice Kau and Kelley Duff, on May 16, 2001, at CARDS. Pet. Ex. 25 at 17. The clinicians concluded that CHILD was developmentally delayed and demonstrated features of autistic disorder. Id. at 22.
CHILD returned to Dr. Zimmerman, on May 17, 2001, for a follow-up consultation. Pet. Ex. 25 at 4. An overnight EEG, performed on April 6, 2001, showed no seizure discharges. Id. at 16. An MRI, performed on March 14, 2001, was normal. Pet. Ex. 24 at 16. A G-band test revealed a normal karyotype. Pet. Ex. 25 at 16. Laboratory studies, however, strongly indicated an underlying mitochondrial disorder. Id. at 4.
Dr. Zimmerman referred CHILD for a neurogenetics consultation to evaluate her abnormal metabolic test results. Pet. Ex. 25 at 8. CHILD met with Dr. Richard Kelley, a specialist in neurogenetics, on May 22, 2001, at the Krieger Institute. Id. In his assessment, Dr. Kelley affirmed that CHILD's history and lab results were consistent with "an etiologically unexplained metabolic disorder that appear[ed] to be a common cause of developmental regression." Id. at 7. He continued to note that children with biochemical profiles similar to CHILD's develop normally until sometime between the first and second year of life when their metabolic pattern becomes apparent, at which time they developmentally regress. Id. Dr. Kelley described this condition as "mitochondrial PPD." Id.
On October 4, 2001, Dr. John Schoffner, at Horizon Molecular Medicine in Norcross, Georgia, examined CHILD to assess whether her clinical manifestations were related to a defect in cellular energetics. Pet. Ex. 16 at 26. After reviewing her history, Dr. Schoffner agreed that the previous metabolic testing was "suggestive of a defect in cellular energetics." Id. Dr. Schoffner recommended a muscle biopsy, genetic testing, metabolic testing, and cell culture based testing. Id. at 36. A CSF organic acids test, on January 8, 2002, displayed an increased lactate to pyruvate ratio of 28,1 which can be seen in disorders of mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation. Id. at 22. A muscle biopsy test for oxidative phosphorylation disease revealed abnormal results for Type One and Three. Id. at 3. The most prominent findings were scattered atrophic myofibers that were mostly type one oxidative phosphorylation dependent myofibers, mild increase in lipid in selected myofibers, and occasional myofiber with reduced cytochrome c oxidase activity. Id. at 7. After reviewing these laboratory results, Dr. Schoffner diagnosed CHILD with oxidative phosphorylation disease. Id. at 3. In February 2004, a mitochondrial DNA ("mtDNA") point mutation analysis revealed a single nucleotide change in the 16S ribosomal RNA gene (T2387C). Id. at 11.
CHILD returned to the Krieger Institute, on July 7, 2004, for a follow-up evaluation with Dr. Zimmerman. Pet. Ex. 57 at 9. He reported CHILD "had done very well" with treatment for a mitochondrial dysfunction. Dr. Zimmerman concluded that CHILD would continue to require services in speech, occupational, physical, and behavioral therapy. Id.
On April 14, 2006, CHILD was brought by ambulance to Athens Regional Hospital and developed a tonic seizure en route. Pet. Ex. 10 at 38. An EEG showed diffuse slowing. Id. At 40. She was diagnosed with having experienced a prolonged complex partial seizure and transferred to Scottish Rite Hospital. Id. at 39, 44. She experienced no more seizures while at Scottish Rite Hospital and was discharged on the medications Trileptal and Diastal. Id. at 44. A follow-up MRI of the brain, on June 16, 2006, was normal with evidence of a left mastoiditis manifested by distortion of the air cells. Id. at 36. An EEG, performed on August 15, 2006,
showed "rhythmic epileptiform discharges in the right temporal region and then focal slowing during a witnessed clinical seizure." Id. At 37. CHILD continues to suffer from a seizure disorder.
ANALYSIS
Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation, Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that compensation is appropriate in this case.

In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).

DVIC has concluded that CHILD's complex partial seizure disorder, with an onset of almost six years after her July 19, 2000 vaccinations, is not related to a vaccine-injury.
Respectfully submitted,
PETER D. KEISLER
Assistant Attorney General

TIMOTHY P. GARREN
Director
Torts Branch, Civil Division

MARK W. ROGERS
Deputy Director
Torts Branch, Civil Division

VINCENT J. MATANOSKI
Assistant Director
Torts Branch, Civil Division

s/ Linda S. Renzi by s/ Lynn E. Ricciardella
LINDA S. RENZI
Senior Trial Counsel
Torts Branch, Civil Division
U.S. Department of Justice
P.O. Box 146
Benjamin Franklin Station

DATE: November 9, 2007

PS: On Friday, February 22, HHS conceded that this child's complex partial seizure disorder was also caused by her vaccines. Now we the taxpayers will award this family compensation to finance her seizure medication. Surely ALL decent people can agree that is a good thing. By the way, it''s worth noting that her seizures did not begin until six years after the date of vaccination, yet the government acknowledges they were, indeed, linked to the immunizations of July, 2000, - DK

ylph;72111]In the article I referenced about Australia/Pertussis, some alternative practitioners, in concert with sensationalist media were actively discouraging immunization to the detriment of public health in that area. My quote was directly from the article and was accurate re. the situation. Did I criticize all alternative practitioners?
As for what I stand for: I stand for saving lives. Vaccines cause harm on occasion, without a doubt, and that is tragic. However, many, many more children have been saved by vaccines than harmed. Check out the risk/benefit ratio. Some alternative practitioners, sincere as they may be, are harming children by discouraging vaccines.
"Quip": sarcastic or witty comment. Your specialty, no? You are quite sensitive, if I may say so (without upsetting you)!
Even though you call me "snide" without knowing me or my motives, I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.:heart:

MsTerry

10-14-2008, 09:54 PM

When you misquote me and try to correct me as if I said something else(because you didn't take the time to read what I wrote) ,yes your motives become suspect.
Your motives are pretty clear, you want to promote your vision of what is healthy and brand any thing else as sensational, fanatic, questionable, causing worldwide epidemics instigated by alternative healers.
Did i leave anything out?

Even though you call me "snide" without knowing me or my motives, I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.:heart:

MsTerry

10-15-2008, 09:22 AM

Oh Yes, I come quite e-quipped
In this case though my use of the word 'irresponsible', added to your quote was neither sarcastic nor witty, just a fact.
You inserted the word 'quipped' as a way to diminish what I was saying, and Yes, I can sense those "friendly" stabs a mile away.
:Yinyangv:

"Quip": sarcastic or witty comment. Your specialty, no? You are quite sensitive, if I may say so (without upsetting you)!

d-cat

10-15-2008, 09:59 AM

Shocking True Story (military vaccines)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWPwLcUyw0

Sylph

10-15-2008, 11:09 AM

Shocking True Story (military vaccines)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWPwLcUyw0
I'm with you here, I suspect the military went way overboard in trying to protect soldiers from the nonexistant microbes in Iraq, with deleterious effects for some.

I acknowledge that vaccines are not perfect. They can harm and even kill some children. It's the risk/benefit ratio...the big picture.
What would the anti-vax folks suggest to protect against measles, pertussis, polio, etc ?

Read the following from WHO, just an exerpt...Six million kids saved annually worldwide! I guess that is just a lie from Big Pharma....sigh:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089/en/index.html (https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/2/07-040089/en/index.html)
printable version (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/print.html)
Vaccination greatly reduces disease, disability, death and inequity worldwide

FE Andre <SUP>a</SUP>, R Booy <SUP>b</SUP>, HL Bock <SUP>c</SUP>, J Clemens <SUP>d</SUP>, SK Datta <SUP>c</SUP>, TJ John <SUP>e</SUP>, BW Lee <SUP>f</SUP>, S Lolekha <SUP>g</SUP>, H Peltola <SUP>h</SUP>, TA Ruff <SUP>i</SUP>, M Santosham <SUP>j</SUP>, HJ Schmitt <SUP>k

</SUP>Introduction

Vaccination has greatly reduced the burden of infectious diseases. Only clean water, also considered to be a basic human right, performs better.<SUP>1</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R1) Paradoxically, a vociferous antivaccine lobby thrives today in spite of the undeniable success of vaccination programmes against formerly fearsome diseases that are now rare in developed countries.<SUP>2</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R2)
Understandably, vaccine safety gets more public attention than vaccination effectiveness, but independent experts and WHO have shown that vaccines are far safer than therapeutic medicines.<SUP>2</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R2)<SUP>,</SUP><SUP>3</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R3) Modern research has spurred the development of less reactogenic products, such as acellular pertussis vaccines and rabies vaccines produced in cell culture. Today, vaccines have an excellent safety record and most vaccine scares have been shown to be false alarms.<SUP>4</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R4)<SUP>,</SUP><SUP>5</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R5) Misguided safety concerns in some countries have led to a fall in vaccination coverage, causing the re-emergence of pertussis and measles.<SUP>6</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R6)
Putative vaccine safety issues are commonly reported while reviews of vaccine benefits are few. A Medline search over the past five years using the keywords vaccine risks scored approximately five times as many hits (2655 versus 557) as a Medline search using â€œvaccine benefits as keywords.<SUP>7</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R7) This reflects the fact that negative aspects of vaccination get much more publicity than positive aspects.
How one addresses the antivaccine movement has been a problem since the time of Jenner. The best way in the long term is to refute wrong allegations at the earliest opportunity by providing scientifically valid data. This is easier said than done, because the adversary in this game plays according to rules that are not generally those of science. This issue will not be further addressed in this paper, which aims to show how vaccines are valuable to both individuals and societies, to present how vaccines are valuable to both individuals and societies, to present validated facts, and to help redress adverse perceptions. Without doubt, vaccines are among the most efficient tools for promoting individual and public health and deserve better press.<SUP>8</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R8)
For society

Ehreth estimates that vaccines annually prevent almost 6 million deaths worldwide.<SUP>19</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R19) In the USA, there has been a 99% decrease in incidence for the nine diseases for which vaccines have been recommended for decades,<SUP>20</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R20) accompanied by a similar decline in mortality and disease sequelae.
Complications such as congenital rubella syndrome, liver cirrhosis and cancer caused by chronic hepatitis B infection or neurological lesions secondary to measles or mumps can have a greater long-term impact than the acute disease. Up to 40% of children who survive meningitis due to Hib may have life-long neurological defects.<SUP>13</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R13)
In field trials, mortality and morbidity reductions were seen for pneumococcal disease in sub-Saharan Africa and rotavirus in Latin America.<SUP>21</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R21)<SUP>,</SUP><SUP>22</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R22)
Specific vaccines have also been used to protect those in greatest need of protection against infectious diseases, such as pregnant women, cancer patients and the immunocompromised.<SUP>18</SUP> (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72160#R18)

Sylph

10-15-2008, 11:16 AM

Lorrie

10-15-2008, 12:01 PM

Ms Terry, You are unkind and rude to folks you disagree with, to the point that you make them feel sad/mad/irritated. Life's too short for such nonsense. This is my last communication with you. I hope you find a more constructive form of recreation. I wish you well!:):

I must chime in here! NO I must not, but I am going to. Because I whole heartedly agree with you Sylph. I know you to be quite educated in teeth! I know nothing about what MsTerry knows about floride or teeth or anything that the web won't supply it with.
I have not had a real great interest in this topic, but to the tone and responses within the first sentence of the posts that came across my computer in box. Ms Terry is an instigator! It causes trouble, riles up on purpose and tries to bring out the frustration and anger. Feelings not had when originally posting for good. On a whim it creates those feelings. It goes off topic to do so by making it personal. Barry it is so negative! Why is it still here? :dunno: Why is it allowed to let readers and posters alike have a bad feeling of wishing they never posted in the first place, after contributing as we should on this :WaccoRays:CBB, if we feel we have an imput to share with the community. A fact or info in regards to subject at hand. Especially the poor newbies!
Once Ms Terry reads a post, it turns the whold conversation and subject sour letting the poster remain with the feeling that should not have ever posted in the first place, as it has with this subject.
If Ms Terry remains maybe it will dominate and be the only:troll: person left posting...and all negative subjects!:2cents:

i.e.: Quotes from Ms Terry in this thread alone:
Besides the first 3 letters being similar, can you show us the chemical connection?
Unless you think that oxymoron and oxygen are related?
It couldn't just ask the question it had to insult someones intelligence too!
To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners in one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible.
Another insult taken out of context of post/info from cpoc not even info from Sylph, but said to make her feel bad...
I respectfully suggest that you remove that inflammatory, self-righteous quote and leave just the link to the article!
Sylph said nothing to deserve ALL of these negative words, cept that she respectfully believes it did not read the article. And it saying this proves that it did not read it!

Oh and it goes on....

:hmmm:

MsTerry

10-15-2008, 08:07 PM

You know Sylph, that is just a cop out statement so you don't have to take responsibility for how you decided to post a demeaning quote to health practitioners.

I respectfully suggest that you remove that inflammatory, self-righteous quote and leave just the link to the article!When I asked you to let the article speak for itself, this was your reply

I’m sorry you interpreted ‘respectfully’ as self-righteous and demeaning to you. It should be clear to anyone (except Lorrie) that it is the quote that is inappropriate, not your use of the word 'respectfully'
After dissecting your quote, you still don't get what is offensive?

It is a dishonest and misleading statement since it links (a)Sensationalist media, (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners.

It doesn't matter that the quote was in the article
It has 'code words' in it designed to provoke.

I do think it sad that someone with your intelligence can't see beyond propaganda.
To call me rude and unkind because you don't agree with me is, well, uhm, rude and unkind?

Ms Terry, You are unkind and rude to folks you disagree with, to the point that you make them feel sad/mad/irritated. Life's too short for such nonsense. This is my last communication with you. I hope you find a more constructive form of recreation. I wish you well!:):

d-cat

10-17-2008, 09:16 PM

i.e.: Quotes from Ms Terry in this thread alone:
Besides the first 3 letters being similar, can you show us the chemical connection?
Unless you think that oxymoron and oxygen are related?

I thought that one was pretty funny actually, considering it was in reply to a post that had this:

other drugs containing fluoride are:
Rohypnol (flunitrazepam), Diflucan (fluconazole), Stelazine (Fluanxol)

d-cat

10-17-2008, 09:18 PM

Protests As New Jersey Declares Flu Vaccines Mandatory (article and videos)

Hundreds of concerned parents participated in demonstrations outside the New Jersey Statehouse yesterday
in protest of the State’s decision to mandate flu vaccinations for young children.
Protesters also turned out to support a bill that would allow for conscientious objections to forced vaccinations,
arguing that medication should be the choice of the parent not the government.

https://www.prisonplanet.com/huge-protests-as-new-jersey-declares-flu-vaccines-mandatory.html

mykil

10-18-2008, 12:47 AM

wOw; I am thinking now that we might just have enough chemists around to set up a few major drug labs and just totally take over the methamphetamine trade! What you all think about that? :hmmm:

phooph

10-19-2008, 08:01 PM

Shocking True Story (military vaccines)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWPwLcUyw0

Here's another article on the same issue from 2002. It is very "fair and balanced" quoting Pentagon officials and drug company PR people saying their vaccines are just fine. https://www.whale.to/a/anthrax9.html

Captain Joyce Riley, gave a lecture in 1996 on the use of vaccines and drugs that have caused thousands of vets to become sick.
https://www.all-natural.com/riley.html

The anthrax vaccine is manufactured by one company - BioPort - which is owned byFuad El-Hibr (https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fuad_El-Hibri)i (https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fuad_El-Hibri), a man with ties to both the Pentagon and the Bush family.

BioPort has recieved several citations from the FDA for improper handling of it's vaccines from manufacture to storage. It has also been caught re-dating expired vaccines. A lot of the expired product was sold to the Pentagon for the first Gulf War and then again for Gulf War II with the anthrax scare in the US giving more weight to the need. (One should also note that $93 million worth of Ciprofloxacin was sold to the US government after the anthrax scare despite the fact that it was originally listed as one of the least effective antibiotics for treating anthrax. Bayer was anxious to unload its stocks of a drug who's price had dropped due to patent expiration before it expired. There is also a huge amount of evidence that Bruce Ivins was not the anthrax terrorist (https://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/bruce-ivins-fall-guy-to-cover-secret-anthrax-weaponization-program/) including a flat out statement from the head of UNSCOM's biologics WMD inspection team. Follow the money.)

This is not about over vigilance by the military. It is about drug companies using the US military as a lucrative dumping ground for drugs of all sorts. There have always been close ties with the drug companies and the military. The biological WMD programs in the US were developed in cooperation with the drug companies.

sharingwisdom

10-21-2008, 02:28 AM

Thanks for posting these really interesting articles and YouTube video. I have Dr. Joyce Riley's and Dr. Garth Nicholson's tapes on biological experimentation on our servicepeople from over 10 years ago.

I found this humorous video on YouTube on the Flu vaccinations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIjm9w_-tNY&feature=related
It's important that people start asking what is in their vaccines.

Here's another article on the same issue from 2002. It is very "fair and balanced" quoting Pentagon officials and drug company PR people saying their vaccines are just fine. https://www.whale.to/a/anthrax9.html

Captain Joyce Riley, gave a lecture in 1996 on the use of vaccines and drugs that have caused thousands of vets to become sick.
https://www.all-natural.com/riley.html

The anthrax vaccine is manufactured by one company - BioPort - which is owned byFuad El-Hibr (https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fuad_El-Hibri)i (https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fuad_El-Hibri), a man with ties to both the Pentagon and the Bush family.

BioPort has recieved several citations from the FDA for improper handling of it's vaccines from manufacture to storage. It has also been caught re-dating expired vaccines. A lot of the expired product was sold to the Pentagon for the first Gulf War and then again for Gulf War II with the anthrax scare in the US giving more weight to the need. (One should also note that $93 million worth of Ciprofloxacin was sold to the US government after the anthrax scare despite the fact that it was originally listed as one of the least effective antibiotics for treating anthrax. Bayer was anxious to unload its stocks of a drug who's price had dropped due to patent expiration before it expired. There is also a huge amount of evidence that Bruce Ivins was not the anthrax terrorist (https://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/bruce-ivins-fall-guy-to-cover-secret-anthrax-weaponization-program/) including a flat out statement from the head of UNSCOM's biologics WMD inspection team. Follow the money.)

This is not about over vigilance by the military. It is about drug companies using the US military as a lucrative dumping ground for drugs of all sorts. There have always been close ties with the drug companies and the military. The biological WMD programs in the US were developed in cooperation with the drug companies.

Braggi

10-21-2008, 08:42 AM

...
Captain Joyce Riley, gave a lecture in 1996 on the use of vaccines and drugs that have caused thousands of vets to become sick.
https://www.all-natural.com/riley.html
...

Thousands of Civil War veterans also became sick. Also WWII veterans. Also Korean War Vets. Also Viet Nam vets. Was it vaccines that caused that? Perhaps we're just allergic to war.

-Jeff

PS. This is the problem of "anecdotal evidence." Personal experience, no matter how real, just isn't data. That aside, I don't doubt the vast amounts of vaccines given to Iraq vets caused a lot of problems. Of course, they took a lot of other drugs too and were exposed to a lot of pathogens their bodies weren't used to. As in most health related stories, it's a complex issue with no single answer.

phooph

10-21-2008, 09:33 PM

I guess you didn't bother to read all that was there. One might note that Captain Riley was a nurse in the USAF who was stricken with Gulf War Syndrome. She was not deployed to the Gulf. She was working state side.

Fully one third of Gulf War I vets became disabled, a much higher rate of disability than all previous wars and the majority is due to GWS. Not only that but family members have been stricken with it so in some instances it seems to be contagious. Some of the symptoms are truly bizarre. One man was told they had to remove all his skin. He died of course. Age 27.

https://www.gulfwarvets.com/image/image1.jpg

Not all this is due to vaccinations, as chemical and bio-weapons, depleted uranium etc are part of the mix. But the people stateside who came down with it are a testament that it's not all battle field exposure.

Thousands of Civil War veterans also became sick. Also WWII veterans. Also Korean War Vets. Also Viet Nam vets. Was it vaccines that caused that? Perhaps we're just allergic to war.

-Jeff

PS. This is the problem of "anecdotal evidence." Personal experience, no matter how real, just isn't data. That aside, I don't doubt the vast amounts of vaccines given to Iraq vets caused a lot of problems. Of course, they took a lot of other drugs too and were exposed to a lot of pathogens their bodies weren't used to. As in most health related stories, it's a complex issue with no single answer.

Braggi

10-21-2008, 10:48 PM

... Not all this is due to vaccinations, as chemical and bio-weapons, depleted uranium etc are part of the mix. But the people stateside who came down with it are a testament that it's not all battle field exposure.

So, thanks for supporting my comments. We agree. Let's have some champagne.

-Jeff

nlpPati

10-22-2008, 02:10 AM

Can anyone recommend...

What is the best way to filter water at home?

I have a Britta and I know that is doesn't filter everything I want it to.

Thank you,
Pati

:pengy::pengy::pengy:

d-cat

11-20-2008, 11:36 PM

Can anyone recommend...

What is the best way to filter water at home?

I have a Britta and I know that is doesn't filter everything I want it to.

Thank you,
Pati

:pengy::pengy::pengy:

Berkey (https://www.berkeywater.com/start.main.html) has a good reputation and they have special fluoride (reduction) filters (https://berkeywater.com/Other_Products/PF_2.html) available

https://www.cleanlivingwater.com/index_files/image910.jpg

https://www.berkeywater.com/start.main.html

and if you're on a budget :wink:
https://www.alpharubicon.com/kids/homemadeberkeydaire.htm

d-cat

11-20-2008, 11:39 PM

interesting youtube clip

America Being Dumbed Down Chemicals No IQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqEW_d8xyc

d-cat

01-05-2009, 06:04 AM

anyone who has looked into aspartame should find this story interesting...

18% tax on non-diet soft drinks
JunkScience.com -- Steven Milloy, Publisher (https://www.junkscience.com/ByTheJunkman/20081225.html)

more stories of our government caring for us:

FDA Stuns Scientists, Declares Mercury in Fish to be Safe for Infants, Children, Expectant Mothers!
FDA Stuns Scientists, Declares Mercury in Fish to be Safe for Infants, Children, Expectant Mothers! (https://www.naturalnews.com/News_000622_mercury_FDA_fish.html)

90 Percent of U.S. Infant Formula May Be Contaminated with Melamine; FDA Abruptly Declares Chemical Safe for Babies
90 Percent of U.S. Infant Formula May Be Contaminated with Melamine; FDA Abruptly Declares Chemical Safe for Babies (https://www.naturalnews.com/024947.html)

FDA Draws Fire Over Chemicals In Baby Formula
FDA Draws Fire Over Chemicals In Baby Formula - washingtonpost.com (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/26/AR2008112600386.html?hpid=sec-health)

rikwiz

10-09-2013, 01:03 AM

Here are a few towns that refused the poison perhaps we can learn something from their struggles in keeping poisons out of the drinking water in this county. It is obvious Effron Carrilo is not a really good judge of what to do and what not to do or where to do that. So we might as well erase him from the equation .. None the less here is a list of articles i gleaned from the net. READ Milton council refuses to support fluoridation of local water (https://www.fluoridealert.org/news/milton-council-refuses-to-support-fluoridation-of-local-water/)Hamilton City Council Refuses To Hear New Fluoride Information (https://canadianawareness.org/2012/09/hamilton-city-council-refuses-to-hear-new-fluoride-information/)
Why Portland refuses to fluoridate its drinking water - The Week (https://theweek.com/article/index/244512/why-portland-refuses-to-fluoridate-its-drinking-water)Oregon city rejects water fluoridation (https://news.msn.com/us/oregon-city-rejects-water-fluoridation)
Scientists, Doctors and Researchers warn of fluoridated water … (https://www.nofluoride.com/)
Some deadly side effects of consuming fluoridated ... (https://www.naturalnews.com/038217_fluoride_tap_water_side_effects.html)

PS. Ya like the way they come up with those "safe" levels? This is not a very exact science, but, in their defense, the best way would be to feed it to a thousand people at varying levels and see at what levels people start getting sick. Oops, can't do that!

Ha!...What about the lab rats...?...I thought they were suppose to be good enough...?...

Oh d-cat!!!...I see red anytime I see articles about how wonderful flouride in the water is...it helps kids to not have cavities!...

Dang!...What about all the people who have to drink that damn water, and aren't a kid, and don't need the damn flouride!...

And guess what - gee, what a revelation!...It's suppose to be the parents responsibility to feed their kids decent food, not stuff 'em with sugar, and make' 'em brush their teeth - keeps the cavities away...If the darn parents are too lame to do that, and pediatricians and dentists aren't hammerin' the parents on those points, then tough noodles...

Other people shouldn't have to drink that junk, because of other lame parents...
I really hate the 'flouride in the water is so wonderful' bs!...