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Zeno Swijtink
08-11-2008, 03:18 AM
While Our Scientists Struggle with Ethics, the Islamic World Forges Ahead (https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/31/genetics.ethicsofscience)
JIM AL-KHALILI, PHD - The Guardian (U.K.)

While our scientists struggle with ethics, the Islamic world forges ahead

Stem cell researchers are branded by the Catholic church as playing God, but Iran's geneticists are unhindered by doctrine

In recent days I have been asked on three separate occasions whether I think physicists are going to destroy the world the moment they switch on the Large Hadron Collider - the huge underground particle accelerator in Geneva - later this year. They ask if, as has been reported, the energies it will produce when beams of near light-speed subatomic particles are smashed together will create mini black holes that will swallow up the whole planet.

Add to this the more rational worries many people have about the global catastrophe of climate change if we don't act fast enough to curb our reliance on fossil fuels, or about GM crops producing Frankenstein food, hybrid embryo research producing Frankenstein babies, and nuclear power leaving future generations a legacy of toxic radioactive waste, and one is left with the impression that the average person is pretty scared about the rate of current scientific advances.

Of the above doom-laden list, the only issue I am unable to provide any sort of reassurance on is climate change, where I am just as worried as everyone else. The rest, I would argue, are based on unfounded fears arising from a misunderstanding of the science involved.

It is of course quite right that the implications - ethical or otherwise - of all manner of scientific research are high on the agenda of government decision-making and research funding. Science ethics is even being taught as part of new science curriculums in UK schools. While the issue of ethics in medical research has always been around, it can only be healthy that we are beginning to apply the same standards to other areas of science, not just so that scientists themselves think more responsibly, but to encourage them to explain what they do to the rest of society, particularly if they work in academia and are funded by public money.

For many, concerns with some scientific research are linked with the unease about living in a nanny state that they feel often passes through legislation and enacts policies without real consensual debate. So I would like to share with you what was, for me, a quite surprising example of the ultimate nanny state making some remarkably sensible decisions.

On a recent visit to Iran, I was allowed unrestricted access to the Royan Institute in Tehran where, by all accounts, world-class work in genetics, infertility treatment, stem cell research and animal cloning is carried out in an atmosphere of openness quite dramatically at odds with my expectations. Much of the work at the Royan is therapeutic and centred on infertility treatment. But their basic research in genetics was remarkably advanced, despite the restrictions on many of the researchers' travel to international meetings and the difficulties in publishing their work in the leading international journals.

What struck me most was the way the authorities overseeing the research seem to have dealt with the ethical minefields of parts of the work, in stark contrast with the howls of protest from some quarters in the UK in the run-up to the human embryo research bill that went through parliament recently.

At the Royan I spoke to one of the imams who sits on their ethics committee. He explained that every research project proposed must be justified to his committee to ensure that it does not conflict with Islamic teaching. Thus, while issues such as abortion are still restricted (it is allowed only when the mother's life is in danger), research on human embryos is allowed.

In this country the Catholic church has branded research on human embryonic stem cells immoral and says tinkering with life in this way is tantamount to playing God. So I was taken aback by the Iranian imam who pointed out, quite rightly, that all that is produced in this research is just a clump of cells and not a foetus, and so what was all the fuss about?

It is these stem cells that then differentiate into the specialist cells that are used to grow healthy tissue to replace that either damaged by trauma, or compromised by disease. Among the conditions that scientists believe may eventually be treated by stem cell therapy are Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, heart disease, strokes, arthritis, diabetes, burns and spinal cord damage.

The fundamental question is whether the original single zygote (the fertilised egg) is defined as a human being. If so, then it can be argued that it is morally wrong to destroy the embryo, as is done of course once the stem cells are harvested. Many in the Catholic church do indeed believe that the moment of fertilisation is also the beginning of human life - a notion not shared in Islam.

The embryo-is-a-human argument is based on the idea that the fertilised egg contains everything that is needed to replicate and that this is sufficient. But is this "potential" of becoming a human being really enough? I mean why stop there? Surely the unfertilised egg also has the potential of becoming a human, as indeed does each and every sperm cell (a notion immortalised in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life).

But I would argue that this is more than just a metaphysical issue. An embryo just a few days old is no more than a bundle of homogeneous cells in the same membrane, which do not form a human organism because they do not function in a coordinated way to regulate and preserve a single life. So while each individual cell is "alive", it only becomes part of a human organism when there is substantial cell differentiation and coordination, which occurs around two weeks after fertilisation. Until that time, for instance, there is still the chance that the embryo can split into two, to form identical twins. If each embryo develops into an individual person, how can the undivided embryo be said to have a separate existence?

A sensible definition of the beginning of human life is that it takes place sometime during the foetus's development. For many, both religious and non-religious, this is defined as when consciousness switches on. This crucial stage lies long after that of the embryonic stem cells with their "potential", rather it is when that potential is fulfilled. But too strong a link with consciousness can lead to the absurd situation of questioning the rights to life of a newborn baby if one subscribes to the view, held by some neuroscientists, that it is not really conscious.

According to Islamic teaching, I discovered, the foetus becomes a full human being only when it is "ensouled" at 120 days from the moment of conception, and so the research at Royan on human embryonic stem cells is not seen as playing God, as it takes place at a much earlier stage. Thus, while there is much that the west finds unpalatable about life under Islamic rule, when it comes to genetics they are not held back by their religious doctrine.

Like a number of other developing Islamic countries, such as Malaysia, Iran's scientific research is moving forward in leaps and bounds. I had hoped to visit one of its nuclear research facilities, but given the current political climate and Israel's threats of military action, it was no big surprise that my film crew and I were denied access at the last minute. Nevertheless, whatever criticisms we may have of the regime in Iran, I was left in no doubt that its researchers can hold their heads high. And we in the UK might learn a lesson or two from them before we complain too quickly about our own nanny state.

Dr. Jim Al-Khalili is a professor of physics at the University of Surrey, in the U.K.

Lenny
08-11-2008, 07:30 PM
In this country the Catholic church has branded research on human embryonic stem cells immoral and says tinkering with life in this way is tantamount to playing God........At the Royan I spoke to one of the imams who sits on their ethics committee.Been looking into this a bit, not much, but some. Seems that characteristic (playing God) is ascribed to the Catholic Church, but that is a conclusion reached by those outside that church with the characteristic that maybe considered "hostile" to the writer's position.

I sure wish they would release the medical information that was gathered during the Holocaust. The minds of those little German doctors and their meticulous notes could be invaluable for medical research. I know they had their committees determining that Poles, Jews, homosexuals, Catholics. Gypsies, union organizers, and others were also considered less than human, a mere collection of cells.

Of course, I am sure with the superior Muslim moral position on Jews and Israel, this is consistent in this same issue as well. As a matter of fact it IS a logical conclusion for them to reach: a potential human is not human, and a potential Jew is not a Muslim. Both are expendable.
Thanks, Z, for the insight into the collective mind of a committee.

Sciguy
08-12-2008, 11:40 PM
<i>
Normally when Lenny writes anything I find I cannot understand a word. It rambles and takes excursions outside of logic or consistency so I skip and ignore it. This writing was no different, except that at the end there was a throwaway line that betrayed a standard, ignorant prejudice which offended me.<p>
I refer to the line about a Jew being expendable to a Muslim. Lenny, as usual, knows nothing about history. I happen to have lived in Turkey for five years. As some of you may know, Turkey, a secular, though predominantly muslim country, was once the ruler of "the known world". That included portions of southern Europe. Prior to the 1920's, it was known as the Ottoman Empire and indeed that empire lasted for five hundred years. Anyone want to take bets on how long the American Empire might last, in comparison?<p>
Here is the story, taken from the Turkish Times, an english language newspaper, about how the Turks embraced the Jews who were in danger of being burned at the stake in Spain around 1492.<p>
_________________________________________________________<p>
Turkish Jews - Brief History



In 70 C.E. the Roman army invaded Jerusalem and expelled the Jews from Judea and Samaria (see brief history of the Jewish people (https://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.asp)). Some of these Jews reached Spain and established thriving communities there. The most famous famous person to emerge from Spanish Jewry is Moshe Ben Maimon (Rambam) (https://www.campsci.com/iguide/rambam.htm), a scientist, physician and a Torah Scholar.
In the 15th century the Jews in Spain faced strong pressures to convert to Christianity and many yielded to this pressure and became Christians. In 1492 the king of Spain, Ferdinand, issued an edict to expel from Spain all remaining Jews who did not convert to Christianity.
https://www.science.co.il/hi/Turkish/images/welcome.jpg Sultan Beyazit II welcoming Jews to Ottoman Empire in 1492
(painting by Mevlut Akyildiz).
When the news of expulsion reached the Ottoman Empire, the Sultan (Emperor) Beyazit II issued a decree to welcome the Jews. A significant portion of those expelled thus came to Ottoman Empire and settled mostly in European parts of the Empire. The Turkish Jews are also identified as Sephardic Jews. This derives from the word Sepharad which in Hebrew means Spain.
Since 1492, through five centuries, the Ottoman sultans and the modern day Turkish Republic, welcomed the Jews and offered them a safe haven from persecution in the European countries. The Ottoman Empire at its zenith became one the largest empires in World History covering most of Mediterranean basin region extending from North Africa to Eastern Europe. It has been suggested that one of the characteristics that extended the domination of the Ottoman Empire was its allowance of religious freedom for the different nationalities and minorities under its rule. While many European nations expelled, persecuted or tried to convert the Jews under their dominion, the Turkish people of the Ottoman Empire, remained as an outstanding example of tolerance of different nationalities with different religions."
<p>
____________________________________________________________
<p> In fact, Sultan Beyazit was famous for saying "Spain's loss is our gain" in reference to the Jews who settled around Istanbul at that time. Five hundred years later, the Sephardic Jewish community is still strong and welcome in Istanbul. I knew many of them who were artisans and businessmen while I lived there. A friend was writing a dictionary of the Sephardic language and I escorted her around to meet members of that group. <p>
Very little has changed with respect to Jewish-Turkish relations in modern times though no moslem country can be unaware of the inhuman, illegal, unjust depredations of Israel against a defenseless, indigenous, muslim population of Palestinians, against whose stones (and a few homemade rockets) they direct all of the indiscriminate power of the fourth largest army in the world, with huge bulldozers, tanks, guided missiles, airplanes, drones and high powered sniper rifles. Before 1948, Jews were a normal part of the muslim world, living side by side with other minorities. If things have changed today, lay the blame at the door of the genocidal country that has forged a diabolical military alliance with the US to push a muslim population out of its own lands. Offhand comments tending to tar muslims with the brush of intolerance are out of line and ignorant.



Paul Palmer








Been looking into this a bit, not much, but some. Seems that characteristic (playing God) is ascribed to the Catholic Church, but that is a conclusion reached by those outside that church with the characteristic that maybe considered "hostile" to the writer's position.

I sure wish they would release the medical information that was gathered during the Holocaust. The minds of those little German doctors and their meticulous notes could be invaluable for medical research. I know they had their committees determining that Poles, Jews, homosexuals, Catholics. Gypsies, union organizers, and others were also considered less than human, a mere collection of cells.

Of course, I am sure with the superior Muslim moral position on Jews and Israel, this is consistent in this same issue as well. As a matter of fact it IS a logical conclusion for them to reach: a potential human is not human, and a potential Jew is not a Muslim. Both are expendable.
Thanks, Z, for the insight into the collective mind of a committee.

Lenny
08-13-2008, 06:52 AM
Paul, you are right in that I do not know history as well as many if not most. As much as I enjoy history as an avocation, it is not my main study, but as I understand issues of today, it is not merely my opinion that Muslims want to have Israel pushed into the sea. As the article I was referring to was more contemporary than your enjoyable, historical bit of information written by a Moslem Turk which you posted, I am amazed that you did not blend some other facts into your scree.
We may agree that Jews were "accepted" in the Moslem world and Palestine, prior to 1948, when the Zionists took the land. And I am sure that stand alone "facts", like the 1492 expulsion of Jews from Spain, may create a certain view, but out of context those facts can have much spin and little meaning.
I envy you in your experience living in Turkey, the most tolerant Moslem nation in the world. But please spare me the propaganda about it being secular. As I understand it the true nature of that region is starting to outlive what the great Ataturk began in 1921. There is a great groundswell to turn that country towards more of an intolerant Shia law, while the leaders struggle to keep up the appearance of secular neutrality in order to enter the EU.
And I know we agree that Israel has done shameful and monstrous things in that area, as has the Palestinians, and we will not go through the "well, you first" of tragic events spawned by each side, since playing that zero sum game is a waste.
Oh, I am sorry you are not able to understand or comprehend my poor excuse for writing as it rambles outside your ability for logic. I will try and correct that, maybe not to your pleasure or understanding but then that is the purpose of communication.
Below is a source and their facts regarding the "tolerance" of Muslims to Jews.

https://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_106.html
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