Cop Choices

[Ben Saari]

Once again the forums (https://forums.pressdemocrat.com/eve/forums?a=dl&f=3601086917&s=2151084365&x_id=808100436&x_subject=3+deputies+injured+in+struggle+with+man&x_link=https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080810/NEWS/808100436) of Santa Rosa's daily are over ridden with racist venting.

It seems that yesterday (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080810/NEWS/808100436/1350&title=Deputies_hurt_in_struggle) a possibly intoxicated man had the audacity to flee detention. And be Latino. At the same time.

The cops decided to chase him, on foot, by car, and with air support. No less than three agencies were involved: The Sonoma County Sheriffs Department, the Santa Rosa Police Department, and California Highway Patrol. That concentration of police forces says something about the climate of the neighborhood.

I'm not defending public drunkenness (which is alleged at this point, not proved), so much as questioning police tactics. What did chasing this guy down, calling out multiple agencies, calling in air support accomplish? It got three deputies hurt, the arrestee hospitalized, a copwatchers videotape and camera confiscated, and attracted a neighborhood crowd to witness the arrest. If that is the goal, then job well done, if it isn't then the cops need to change what they are doing.

[NudeTea]

Well if your not defending public drunkenness and you're not applauding the police for catching the guy, what options do you propose? What would you do if you were the cop? Let the guy go or catch him: I'm curious as to what your other options would be.

[Ben Saari]

Well if your not defending public drunkenness and you're not applauding the police for catching the guy, what options do you propose? What would you do if you were the cop? Let the guy go or catch him: I'm curious as to what your other options would be.


What range of choices were available to the cop? To pursue or not to pursue. To call for back up or not to call for back up. To tackle or not to tackle.

I'm not going to claim complete knowledge of what occurred, so I'm not going to speculate as to what the cop should have done.

But I'm pretty sure there is a way to handle a public drunk that doesn't put him and 3 cops in the hospital, call out the helicopter, get southbound traffic on Dutton closed for an hour, and result in the confiscation of private property of folks observing police activity.

I'm disturbed that this kind of response and level of force is acceptable in a connected conscious community.

[Lenny]

I suppose better those three cops hurt than innocent citizens who've nothing to do with a guy who is willing to hurt three cops, drink in public to the point of willing to hurt folks, and obviously hurt anybody he wishes to hurt. Those cops are getting paid to do that stuff, not innocent folks who want to do nothing with that guy. The helicopter was a bit much for a response, but then I wasn't there and didn't know all the facts. I suppose once he hurt a cop, it was ON.

[PeriodThree]

But I'm pretty sure there is a way to handle a public drunk that doesn't put him and 3 cops in the hospital, call out the helicopter, get southbound traffic on Dutton closed for an hour, and result in the confiscation of private property of folks observing police activity.

I'm disturbed that this kind of response and level of force is acceptable in a connected conscious community.

Confiscating the video equipment is almost certainly totally wrong - we really need the near absolute freedom to observe and record our armed public servants at work.

But you don't get to get drunk and then run from the cops. The person who did that is 100% responsible for everything that happened after.

[Lenny]

Confiscating the video equipment is almost certainly totally wrong - we really need the near absolute freedom to observe and record our armed public servants at work.

But you don't get to get drunk and then run from the cops. The person who did that is 100% responsible for everything that happened after.

Well, he's HELD to be as if he were "responsible", but he's drunk and responsible folks don't do all that he did.
As for the video equipment.......I guess you had to have been there. But he should get it back since it was his. I'd file on that for sure.

[MsTerry]

As for the video equipment.......I guess you had to have been there. But he should get it back since it was his. I'd file on that for sure.
What would you consider a legitimate reason to confiscate some one's property?

[Lenny]

What would you consider a legitimate reason to confiscate some one's property?

Well, on the face of it, none. And you make a good point. Wonder what the DA or cops claim. But it could be used for evidence in a trial, if he took photos of others' committing crimes, or if it was used as a weapon in a battery. I wouldn't want to get hit with a camera.

[Ben Saari]

As for the video equipment.......I guess you had to have been there. But he should get it back since it was his. I'd file on that for sure.

File what? and with who? There are many assumptions in your thinking Lenny: that government agencies respond to people's requests, that police violence is always justified (you suppose that a camera was used as a weapon, when it is clearly stated that it was used to document police activity), that police are honest and police critics aren't

[Lenny]

File what? and with who? There are many assumptions in your thinking Lenny: that government agencies respond to people's requests, that police violence is always justified (you suppose that a camera was used as a weapon, when it is clearly stated that it was used to document police activity), that police are honest and police critics aren't

File the complaint with the D.A.
Take statements from witnesses that saw you with the camera. Friends with photos of your gear would be helpful. Seems everybody's got cameras now-a-days.
The police report is available to you and is signed. You could also go after THAT cop civilly in small claims court. Someone who has been around the block does not need the obvious issues I have outlined here.
As for police violence being justified, one would think cops don't want to stop eating donuts long enough to go out and beat up innocent citizens. Besides, if I recall this scenario, groups of young men were congregating and potential violence seemed afoot. Possibly that red gang and blue gang? It is your story that the camera was used to document, and I can believe you, but another person asked a hypothetical question and I answered it. As I was not there, so my retort was mere speculation. Does the police report indicate that you were using it as a weapon? Don't know, don't care. As for honesty, I have found police to be honest. I guess you've not. Same for police critics. I've seen stuff as well as you, and to hear both sides of an incident has been an education. You make it seem like you were totally innocent, cops came up and beat you down. Certainly would like to hear or read the cops' version. And all this was occurring during what could have been a potential riot among young men. I am no longer under 30, naive, nor believe all that I read or hear. Are you a police critic? And what DOES make one a police critic? I mean, has this happened to you before? Often? Like more than twice a year? Or are you simply a sniveling criminal? Don't know, don't care. But you did snivel. So I responded.

[Moon]

"File the complaint with the D.A.
Take statements from witnesses that saw you with the camera. Friends with photos of your gear would be helpful. Seems everybody's got cameras now-a-days.
As for police violence being justified, one would think cops don't want to stop eating donuts long enough to go out and beat up innocent citizens. Besides, if I recall this scenario, groups of young men were congregating and potential violence seemed afoot.
As for honesty, I have found police to be honest."
That sounds wonderful!
What planet are you from, and how do i get there?
"I guess you've not. Same for police critics. I've seen stuff as well as you, and to hear both sides of an incident has been an education. You make it seem like you were totally innocent, cops came up and beat you down. Certainly would like to hear or read the cops' version. And all this was occurring during what could have been a potential riot among young men. I am no longer under 30, naive, nor believe all that I read or hear. Are you a police critic? And what DOES make one a police critic? I mean, has this happened to you before? Often? Like more than twice a year?"

[Lenny]

3rd World from the sun.
And you?
Started out in The Mission District, 1950's and 60's in S.F. Specifically Folsom & 25th in The Projects. Played at Precita Park & swam at Garfield Pool. Thumped around Treat Street and knew better than to go to Day Street or get caught on Cortland Avenue. Graduated from Balboa.
Enough street cred for you? And if you want to get there go down to the city, and hang at any of those locations. Use to be the 14 Mission would get you there.
And where did you grow up? Sebastopol Square? So go ASK for money or a ride to get you there!
Blow it. Not in the mood for Moon's Beams.


"File the complaint with the D.A.
Take statements from witnesses that saw you with the camera. Friends with photos of your gear would be helpful. Seems everybody's got cameras now-a-days.
As for police violence being justified, one would think cops don't want to stop eating donuts long enough to go out and beat up innocent citizens. Besides, if I recall this scenario, groups of young men were congregating and potential violence seemed afoot.
As for honesty, I have found police to be honest."
That sounds wonderful!
What planet are you from, and how do i get there?
"I guess you've not. Same for police critics. I've seen stuff as well as you, and to hear both sides of an incident has been an education. You make it seem like you were totally innocent, cops came up and beat you down. Certainly would like to hear or read the cops' version. And all this was occurring during what could have been a potential riot among young men. I am no longer under 30, naive, nor believe all that I read or hear. Are you a police critic? And what DOES make one a police critic? I mean, has this happened to you before? Often? Like more than twice a year?"

[enggo_pah]

Well, so you have police experience from a different area.
Moon's seemingly rhetorical, idiomatic question seemed to me to express a difference of experience. There you are.


3rd World from the sun.
And you?
Started out in The Mission District, 1950's and 60's in S.F. Specifically Folsom & 25th in The Projects. Played at Precita Park & swam at Garfield Pool. Thumped around Treat Street and knew better than to go to Day Street or get caught on Cortland Avenue. Graduated from Balboa.
Enough street cred for you? And if you want to get there go down to the city, and hang at any of those locations. Use to be the 14 Mission would get you there.
And where did you grow up? Sebastopol Square? So go ASK for money or a ride to get you there!
Blow it. Not in the mood for Moon's Beams.