The Geography of Nowhere

[stiltbat]

As my girlfriend and I left Sebastopol Cinemas and wandered through the old warehouses nearby, I was reminded of a life-changing book I read long ago called THE GEOGRAPHY OF NOWHERE, by James Howard Kunstler. The book, like some punk rock rant, carefully and angrily defined the cancer of big chain stores and sprawl and town planning gone awry. The author's little home town, and it's storefront of yesteryear giving way to a two-block cement structure with no windows, was an apocalyptic image for me.

We walked on. In complete ignorance I wondered how long it would be before this prime warehouse area would be transformed by money.

Five minutes later we were in the ice cream shop and a man was talking to me about the plans before city council. Though we didn't talk long he told me a lot.

These two Washingtonians moved to Sebastopol a year ago because it is beautiful, friendly, a nice mix of country and conscious, and because it is NOT Rohnert Park. It is refreshingly clear of mega-chains. Somehow this happened, here in the United States. It did, and all of us should be so grateful. Can I tell you, I am thrilled when I walk into the video store and breathe a smell that is NOT Blockbuster. And though it's true there is no Washington Mutual here, I am not sad. Not at all.

The Dreamery, I understand, is the counter proposal, to mega-chain-land, and seems to be the very idea my girlfriend and I discussed before we reached the ice cream shop. The idea of giving space to culture, to the little business, to the Mexican vendors, to the street musicians, is beautiful. A space filled with life creates life.

As a native Seattle-ite I can tell you that PIKES MARKET is a major source of pride. The Westlake Mall,(the Market's corporate alternative 5 blocks away) is nothing. Useless. Laughable.

I support the 50% of the council who are in favor of using any means necessary to keep chains out of this town and keep the land sacred and used for the good of the community.

Please forgive any lack of facts or info I might have at this point. Just an outsiders raw opinion.

Mark

[Malene]

Hey Mark,

I was just thinking - wouldnt it be nice if there was a street in Sebastopol where there was no cars allowed, only pedestrians.

It could be a walking street with lots of shops, street vendors etc.

Since there are now two one way streets in Sebastopol it might even be fairly easy to do.

It sure could be a wonderful hang out spot.

Malene

[Kenyon Webster]

Fyi, the proposed Northeast Plan is not about the promotion of chains. It incorporates existing City limitations on large stores (a threshold far below the size of Walmarts, Kmarts, Targets, or Home Depots), and includes new design controls that promote smaller and pedestrian-oriented stores (current zoning does not have such requirements), and as currently under discussion by the City Council, it may include special Use Permit requirements for some retail uses---provisions that would be more restrictive than regulations now applying to the area.

-Kenyon Webster, Planning Director



As my girlfriend and I left Sebastopol Cinemas and wandered through the old warehouses nearby, I was reminded of a life-changing book I read long ago called THE GEOGRAPHY OF NOWHERE, by James Howard Kunstler. The book, like some punk rock rant, carefully and angrily defined the cancer of big chain stores and sprawl and town planning gone awry. The author's little home town, and it's storefront of yesteryear giving way to a two-block cement structure with no windows, was an apocalyptic image for me.

We walked on. In complete ignorance I wondered how long it would be before this prime warehouse area would be transformed by money.

Five minutes later we were in the ice cream shop and a man was talking to me about the plans before city council. Though we didn't talk long he told me a lot.

These two Washingtonians moved to Sebastopol a year ago because it is beautiful, friendly, a nice mix of country and conscious, and because it is NOT Rohnert Park. It is refreshingly clear of mega-chains. Somehow this happened, here in the United States. It did, and all of us should be so grateful. Can I tell you, I am thrilled when I walk into the video store and breathe a smell that is NOT Blockbuster. And though it's true there is no Washington Mutual here, I am not sad. Not at all.

The Dreamery, I understand, is the counter proposal, to mega-chain-land, and seems to be the very idea my girlfriend and I discussed before we reached the ice cream shop. The idea of giving space to culture, to the little business, to the Mexican vendors, to the street musicians, is beautiful. A space filled with life creates life.

As a native Seattle-ite I can tell you that PIKES MARKET is a major source of pride. The Westlake Mall,(the Market's corporate alternative 5 blocks away) is nothing. Useless. Laughable.

I support the 50% of the council who are in favor of using any means necessary to keep chains out of this town and keep the land sacred and used for the good of the community.

Please forgive any lack of facts or info I might have at this point. Just an outsiders raw opinion.

Mark

[stiltbat]

Well, you know my favorite Utopian Novel "Ecotopia" starts exactly like that. The local neighborhoods, simply tear out the streets and plant parks. They do it en masse, so there is no one to arrest. That, and a few other key actions, gets the whole revolution started. Wonderful idea. Keep in mind though, malls are like that. No cars in a mall, but still the same sense of corporate death. Part of the idea maybe could be to mix commerce, park stuff, and a lot of things unrelated to money. Part of why I like small business is that the bottom line is often the experience provided and not the cash. Sebastopol is rich enough to help support these little businesses with some rent breaks and utility incentives I bet.



Hey Mark,

I was just thinking - wouldnt it be nice if there was a street in Sebastopol where there was no cars allowed, only pedestrians.

It could be a walking street with lots of shops, street vendors etc.

Since there are now two one way streets in Sebastopol it might even be fairly easy to do.

It sure could be a wonderful hang out spot.

Malene

[stiltbat]

In response to Kenyon Webster... Whenever I hear the words "restrictions", "zoning", "Limitations", and "regulations" I get a little ill I have to say. Community land use, it seems, should be about freedom and life for the people of the community. I'm guessing the land was originally used to support the local apple industry. It was a coming together place for farmers.

Can't something REALLY different happen to it? Different than the usual: (big money deal proposed big clean and boring stuff put in with no sense of style and communal cohesion. At least that's what I've seen in SEattle). How about making the space into a junior college/shop area for example for people who want to create sustainable products? More reasons to keep the 18-28 yr olds in town after high school. They sure aren't going to be renting space in a brand new pedestrian mall. That demographic is going to move where they can afford to experiment. Sebastopol doesn't need more general stores, right? We can buy everything already. Sebastopol needs to be kept interesting, and that means flexibility for the creators, shop keepers and artists, theaters, restaurants etc. Flexibility means rent is LOW and maybe even assisted by the city. Plus how could you go wrong with more green space downtown.

Interested in reading more about your proposal or either proposal. Where can that be found online?

Mark

[Malene]

Hey Mark,

In this case, maybe not so much of utopia. Copenhagen is the capital in Denmark, and is a city with approximately 1.2 million people. It is a wonderful and beautiful modern metropolitan city.

Since the sixties Copenhagen has had 4 walking streets downtown. They are all interconnected and collectively referred to as "stroget".

There are two main walking streets, and two walking streets behind the main ones. Then there are a couple of plaza's as well.

Cars are let into the streets I believe until 9 am to help shops stock up. Shops open at 10 am. No cars are allowed to use stroget as a driving street - only to drive in and stock up. The cars have to have a special plate that designate them for commercial purposes.

You will find all kinds of shops there, mostly a little on the expensive side though. There are some chains - although Thank God mostly chains local to Denmark. You will also find many unique shops - those can especially be found in the two back end walking shops, and the small tributaries of streets feeding into stroget. One of my favorite unique shops is a hard sugar candy shop that makes their own sugar candy right in the back. You can see them work to make the candy when you walk into the shop. They have been around at least since my mom was a kid.

This is often where the danes will start their day on stroget!

Generally the danes only purchase stuff on stroget if it is unique. Otherwise its too expensive to shop there.

You will also find quite a few museums etc up and down stroget.

There are also tons of restaurants, cafe's etc.

On a good day you will probably find 3 - 6 street performers up and down stroget to entertain you. Stop for a little while - enjoy the music and give them some cash. They are a wonderful edition.

There are also several large plaza's connected with stroget.

Stroget runs smack through downtown and yes - it often creates traffic havoc having to get around those streets, and the resulting tons of one way streets. So take the public transportation instead fer crying out loud. It is good and not that expensive, and you dont have to park the car either!

Many smaller towns in Denmark has followed suit and created their own little charming downtown walking streets. Its a money maker! This is where you also find a lot of small unique business's. In the small towns you will also find such "outdated" shops as the local butcher or the local baker. Such an outdated concept huh?

If you walk quickly from one end of stroget to the next it will take about 30 minutes. If you walk stroget to enjoy, check out the shops and relax it will take at least a full day for you to check it all. Have lunch and dinner somewhere around there. The back walking streets, and small street tributaries are absolutely worth a visit too.

Nothing large and corporate about that feel I promise.

Ohh, and the buildings are all very old. Several dates back to the 1600 hundreds. But thats pretty common for an old city like Copenhagen.

Here is a link with some pictures and traveler reviews of stroget. (https://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Denmark/Koebenhavns_Kommune/Copenhagen-162183/Things_To_Do-Copenhagen-Stroeget-BR-1.html)

Warm regards,
Malene



Well, you know my favorite Utopian Novel "Ecotopia" starts exactly like that. The local neighborhoods, simply tear out the streets and plant parks. They do it en masse, so there is no one to arrest. That, and a few other key actions, gets the whole revolution started. Wonderful idea. Keep in mind though, malls are like that. No cars in a mall, but still the same sense of corporate death. Part of the idea maybe could be to mix commerce, park stuff, and a lot of things unrelated to money. Part of why I like small business is that the bottom line is often the experience provided and not the cash. Sebastopol is rich enough to help support these little businesses with some rent breaks and utility incentives I bet.

[Kenyon Webster]

Information about the Northeast Plan can be found on the City's web site at https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/planning.shtml#northeast

-Kenyon Webster

[Zeno Swijtink]

Hey Mark,

I was just thinking - wouldnt it be nice if there was a street in Sebastopol where there was no cars allowed, only pedestrians.

It could be a walking street with lots of shops, street vendors etc.

Since there are now two one way streets in Sebastopol it might even be fairly easy to do.

It sure could be a wonderful hang out spot.

Malene



Car-Free Streets, a Colombian Export, Inspire Debate (https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/nyregion/24streets.html?)

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/06/24/nyregion/24colombia_600.jpg

Project for Public Spaces Inc.
In Bogotá, Colombia, 70 miles of road are turned over to bicyclists and pedestrians once a week. New York will try it in August.
By JAVIER C. HERNANDEZ
Published: June 24, 2008

When the crowds stream down Park Avenue and bicyclists have taken over Lafayette Street, the question may strike even the most ardent ambler: Whose idea was this, anyway?

Summer Streets — New York City’s recreational experiment that will convert 6.9 miles of Manhattan into a car-free park during parts of three Saturdays in August — originated in the Andes. It was born 32 years ago in Bogotá, Colombia, as the Ciclovía, or bicycle pathway, now a 70-mile route through the heart of the city that each Sunday attracts more than one million people on two wheels and two legs.

Bogotá’s model has inspired several cities to follow suit. From El Paso to Ottawa, exhaust pipes are becoming a target of disapproval, at least in some areas. Cars have been barred from Guadalajaran thoroughfares and alongside improvised Parisian beaches to make room for the helmeted hordes.

Gil Peñalosa, a pioneer of the car-free effort, flies from city to city planting the seeds of the Ciclovía, a program that he resuscitated a decade ago as Bogotá’s head of recreation.

When Mr. Peñalosa, 51, came into office in 1995, the Ciclovía, then eight miles long, was in decline and seemed to be on the verge of shutting down. Today, the weekly ride is nearly nine times longer and can draw up to 1.8 million participants on sunny days, Mr. Peñalosa said.

“It’s almost a magical thing that takes place when people go to the forbidden,” Mr. Peñalosa said in a telephone interview last week from Portland, Ore., where he addressed a conference on alternatives to car travel. “All of a sudden, the roads are filled with people and you have it to yourself.”

He spoke of the Ciclovía with a passion that lent itself to exclamation points: “There are no losers!” “It’s fantastic for business!” “It is the best thing Colombia has ever done!”

But the Ciclovía and similar experiments have critics. Business owners frequently complain that closing the streets reduces the flow of customers and hurts sales, and drivers gripe about inconvenience that results from sealing off major traffic arteries.

In New York City, where street fairs and parades already cause headaches for drivers this time of year, some worry that the new program, which will be in effect from 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Aug. 9, 16, and 23, will make congestion intolerable.

Bhairavi Desai, executive director of the 11,000-member New York Taxi Workers Alliance, called the program “ridiculous” and said it will make it difficult for cabdrivers to break even.

August is the slowest month for drivers, Ms. Desai said, with the number of fares about 10 percent lower than normal. In addition, drivers are already expecting lackluster demand during August’s annual parades in celebration of India and Pakistan.

“I think the administration should remember that Manhattan isn’t just a playground,” Ms. Desai said. “It’s a place of work for thousands of people.”

New York City has gained a reputation as a metropolis unfriendly to cyclists, but the city has laid out plans to improve safety over the next few years for the estimated 112,000 daily bike riders.

Barbara Ross came to the city 15 years ago and was too scared to brave streets lined with parked cars, where opening doors can bring a bike ride to a sudden and painful halt. Ms. Ross, 45, is now a regular cyclist and a spokeswoman for the environmental group Time’s Up.

She said Summer Streets was a step toward making cycling the preferred means of travel for many New Yorkers. She also said that she hoped the effort would be popular and persuade the city to offer more lanes for bicyclists.

“It’s O.K. to start slow, but the city is going to need to take more chances,” Ms. Ross said. “The more bikers you have out there, the safer it is going to be.”

But some people think bicycles themselves can be a hazard. Bette Dewing, who lives on the Upper East Side and is a longtime advocate for pedestrians, said she was concerned about the safety of residents, particularly the elderly and disabled, while hundreds of bicycles whizzed down the streets.

“They have certain lanes that they’re supposed to stay in but they don’t. It’s just a free-for-all,” Ms. Dewing added.

Increasingly, events like the Ciclovía are not just about bikes. In Bogotá, dancers, aerobic exercisers and skaters are common along a route that Mr. Peñalosa calls a “paved beach.” People sunbathe, practice yoga along the streets, or sip mandarin juice in the shade.

It is the spontaneity of interaction that results from bringing together a wide variety of people that fuels Mr. Peñalosa’s zeal.

“When people come together — young and old, and rich and poor, and male and female, and fat and skinny, and tall and short — everybody!” he shouted. “Then it becomes such a fantastic togetherness, and the complaints go away.”

[gnc sebastopol]

Hi Mark,

welcome to Sebastopol. I feel the need to respond to your post, because according to you, I am part of the problem. I own the GNC franchise in the Redwood Marketplace. I understand the desire for unique stores but I wish we could find a way to thrive side by side.A two block cement structure with no windows would be hideous. Have you seen one around lately?It is a picture in a story. I understand the desire to get away from a generic strip of chain stores, but I don't see the need to dramatize.


cancer of big chain stores and sprawl and town planning gone awry. The author's little home town, and it's storefront of yesteryear giving way to a two-block cement structure with no windows, was an apocalyptic image for me.I believe you just called my store a cancer? Really?


These two Washingtonians moved to Sebastopol a year ago because it is beautiful, friendly, a nice mix of country and conscious, and because it is NOT Rohnert Park It is refreshingly clear of mega-chains) I guess you didn't notice the Whole Foods in the center of town.

As a Californian who moved to Washington 10 years ago I often had to hide my origins. They did not appreciate the influx of Californians. I hope we are more welcoming and in doing so we will have to build more houses and open more businesses to support the increase in population....and our town will change.


(As a native Seattle-ite I can tell you that PIKES MARKET is a major source of pride. The Westlake Mall,(the Market's corporate alternative 5 blocks away) is nothing. Useless. Laughable.)
I think this is a good example of how both managed to survive side by side. The Westlake Mall did not shut down Pikes place. While it may be laughable to your needs, last I saw it was thriving and meeting the needs of a large part of the community.

I don't have any answers for our growing pains. Can we just please tone down the generalizations, dramatizations and find some common agreements?

thank you,

Kathleen Stroh

[stiltbat]

I just wanted to tell you all I appreciate this debate. This experience. I've realized a lot following it. I realize, probably firstly, that I enjoy making people happy and it seemed that I lot of what I said made people sad. Which means that I really hurt some people. That made me feel pretty bad, but also think a lot about it. I still don't know if some of what I said made sense. I know it does if I could stray from generalizations. I guess what was most encouraging was the real feeling people showed. I got some personal emails throughout this thread that were really nice. Nicely saying to me, "thank you for your oprinion." And I guess that's what it was all about for me. As a person who has a lot to contribute I hope you will always be open to my voice, as I am open to yours. Thanks, Haichka. Mark


Hi Mark,

welcome to Sebastopol. I feel the need to respond to your post, because according to you, I am part of the problem. I own the GNC franchise in the Redwood Marketplace. I understand the desire for unique stores but I wish we could find a way to thrive side by side.A two block cement structure with no windows would be hideous. Have you seen one around lately?It is a picture in a story. I understand the desire to get away from a generic strip of chain stores, but I don't see the need to dramatize.

I believe you just called my store a cancer? Really?

I guess you didn't notice the Whole Foods in the center of town.

As a Californian who moved to Washington 10 years ago I often had to hide my origins. They did not appreciate the influx of Californians. I hope we are more welcoming and in doing so we will have to build more houses and open more businesses to support the increase in population....and our town will change.

I think this is a good example of how both managed to survive side by side. The Westlake Mall did not shut down Pikes place. While it may be laughable to your needs, last I saw it was thriving and meeting the needs of a large part of the community.

I don't have any answers for our growing pains. Can we just please tone down the generalizations, dramatizations and find some common agreements?

thank you,

Kathleen Stroh

[Vet-To-Pet]

I used to live in San Francisco from 1975 until 1988, at which time I moved in order to return to school & become a veterinarian. My brother & his wife continued to live in SF, and then migrated up to Sebastopol in the mid-90s. I used to go "up to the river" during my years in SF, and I can recall the small towns that were along the way to get up to the nude beach we liked to go to.

Once I no longer lived in CA, I used to come to visit my brother & his wife about once a year, in SF & then Sebastopol. I loved Sebastopol, and would wonder "why don't I live here?". Oh, yeah, it's incredibly expensive! (this was even back in the 90s, before houses cost over 1/2 a million dollars for a regular house with less than an acre of property). Each year, the same thing. I loved going downtown Sebastopol to browse through all the shops, all the wonderful different shops.

I finally decided to move back to CA in 2006, in order to spend more time with my brother & his wife, and to live in this wonderful region. Who cared if I'd be paying my mortgage off until I'm 80 years old? I felt like THIS was where I belonged.

Two years have passed since I moved here. Downtown now has very few stores that I can afford to shop in (or that have items I'd even want to buy).

Not only is my mortgage incredibly high, but so is everything else around here. Taxes are killing most of us. Restaurants believe that they can charge more money for the same thing one can order in another state because the people here WILL pay those prices. It doesn't cost any more to make the dishes they serve than it does to make them in NY or another comparable region, the restaurateurs will charge whatever they can get away with, whatever their market will pay---and pay we will! I moved here from a college town where there were countless GOOD restaurants where one could order an excellent meal (all types of ethnic restaurants) for less than $15. the "high-priced" places cost a bit more, like $25 or $30, but there weren't too many of those.

I can also recall that there used to be lots of vineyards/wineries over the years that I came to visit. Now it seems like there are ONLY vineyards, with new ones starting every day. Does anyone else feel like we're raping the earth around here? Does anyone else feel like we're being taken for fools? Does anyone else think that it's "odd" that someone with a "Dr" in front of their name is having a hard time making ends meet around here? Do I have to start a winery to be able to afford to live here? what the hell is going on?

This isn't any different than any other town in the area---the residents would like you to think it is, and you should feel lucky to be able to live in The Promised Land. I'm not buying it.

Who decided this was such an exclusive place to live that people are willing to camp in tents to live in Sebastopol? Or who housesit for a living because they can't afford to buy or even rent their own place? Why are there frequent postings on Wacco about helping out a young family who are "going through a rough time"? Wake up & smell the wineries!

We are paying WAY more than anyone with half a brain should be willing to pay for things like crappy roads, water that needs to be filtered at our own expense, and a sheriffs department who NEVER patrols certain neighborhoods, such as my own, where there were a rash of auto break-ins a few months ago, and when I reported my car had been broken into, the response was, "Yeah, there's been several cars broken into in that area over the past few days." Well, are you going to DO anything about it, like patrol more often?? So far, nothing has changed in the patrolling of my neighborhood. What am I paying about $8,000 in taxes for? I guess I'm also an idiot, since I've put up with it for the past two years. But I'm catching on to this insanity...

I just might move to a place where I can make a living after attending veterinary school & getting a DVM degree. I feel sorry for the people who don't realize that they don't HAVE to stay here---there ARE other very nice places to live, and you can even go out to eat once a week or more.
Vet-To-Pet/Paula:stoptheinsane:





I just wanted to tell you all I appreciate this debate. This experience. I've realized a lot following it. I realize, probably firstly, that I enjoy making people happy and it seemed that I lot of what I said made people sad. Which means that I really hurt some people. That made me feel pretty bad, but also think a lot about it. I still don't know if some of what I said made sense. I know it does if I could stray from generalizations. I guess what was most encouraging was the real feeling people showed. I got some personal emails throughout this thread that were really nice. Nicely saying to me, "thank you for your oprinion." And I guess that's what it was all about for me. As a person who has a lot to contribute I hope you will always be open to my voice, as I am open to yours. Thanks, Haichka. Mark