Poll at Wacco-BB Yahoogroup about changing its name [Archive]

View Full Version : Poll at Wacco-BB Yahoogroup about changing its name

Barry

06-24-2008, 10:16 AM

Hi Everybody,

I want to let the current members of the Wacco-BB Yahoogroup (which is totally separate from WaccoBB.net) that there is currently a poll under way about changing the name so it no longer references "Wacco" (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

I have requested that they change the name to avoid confusion. Many people think that the groups are somehow connected and what's more both lists are often referred to as "Wacco" which is ambiguous.

I moderated the "WaccoBB" Yahoogroup for many years, guiding it from 200 members to over 3,000 members. It was pulled by Yahoo without notice after Peter Van Gorder contacted Yahoo about a dissagreement he had about how I was running the group. Peter went on to be a founding moderator at the Wacco-BB group that was established right after WaccoBB was terminated.

I have no problem with the Wacco-BB group other than their name.

Please do not join the Wacco-BB group in order to vote in this poll (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

If you feel that it would be less confusing if the Yahoo group had a different name, I urge you to vote in the poll (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

Thanks,
Barry

Zeno Swijtink

06-24-2008, 11:23 PM

If you feel that it would be less confusing if the Yahoo group had a different name, I urge you to vote in the poll (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

Thanks,
Barry

I wrote on wacco-bb:

I don't see the need for a name change.

In fact the "confusion," if there is one, is part of our identity, an
underbelly of our history. No atonement, no forgiveness. No Truth and
Reconciliation Commission.

You don't ask South Korea to change it's name because it may be
confused with North Korea.

Changing the name is like whitewashing, paving over, sweeping under the carpet.

The names are a reminder that keeps our historical awareness alive.

Our kids will ask us about these names, and we will tell the story,
each of us as he remembers it.

Without that story they would not understand the differences between
craig's list and barry's list.

The story provides a philosophical reflection on the nature of
community, the necessity of making a living, the slippery slope from
the intangible rewards of volunteering to a feeling of ownership.

Let's keep that story alive.

Zeno

thewholetruth

06-25-2008, 06:34 AM

Zeno, you're quite the character, sir. One of the bright spots here in Waccoville, for sure...IMO, of course. :thumbsup:

I wrote on wacco-bb:

I don't see the need for a name change.

In fact the "confusion," if there is one, is part of our identity, an

underbelly of our history. No atonement, no forgiveness. No Truth and

Reconciliation Commission.

You don't ask South Korea to change it's name because it may be

confused with North Korea.

Changing the name is like whitewashing, paving over, sweeping under the carpet.

The names are a reminder that keeps our historical awareness alive.

Our kids will ask us about these names, and we will tell the story,

each of us as he remembers it.

Without that story they would not understand the differences between

craig's list and barry's list.

The story provides a philosophical reflection on the nature of

community, the necessity of making a living, the slippery slope from

the intangible rewards of volunteering to a feeling of ownership.

Let's keep that story alive.

Zeno

Braggi

06-25-2008, 07:06 AM

...
Let's keep that story alive.

Zeno[/INDENT]

Eh, never having been a part of Wacco-bb I don't have a lot of feeling about this. I'm not confused?!? Or am I? Generally, yes. Not on this one.

It won't matter to me, nor, I think, to most here at waccobb.net, if the other guys change their name. It's not like there's a marketing issue here and subscribers intending to sign up on one will sign up on the other by mistake and miss out on something.

Does that make any sense?

-Jeff

MsTerry

06-25-2008, 07:56 AM

Well , why do they have the same name?
who was first?
I've never even seen the site, what is the difference?

Hi Everybody,

I want to let the current members of the Wacco-BB Yahoogroup (which is totally separate from WaccoBB.net) that there is currently a poll under way about changing the name so it no longer references "Wacco" (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

I have requested that they change the name to avoid confusion. Many people think that the groups are somehow connected and what's more both lists are often referred to as "Wacco" which is ambiguous.

I moderated the "WaccoBB" Yahoogroup for many years, guiding it from 200 members to over 3,000 members. It was pulled by Yahoo without notice after Peter Van Gorder contacted Yahoo about a dissagreement he had about how I was running the group. Peter went on to be a founding moderator at the Wacco-BB group that was established right after WaccoBB was terminated.

I have no problem with the Wacco-BB group other than their name.

Please do not join the Wacco-BB group in order to vote in this poll (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

If you feel that it would be less confusing if the Yahoo group had a different name, I urge you to vote in the poll (https://groups.yahoo.com/group/wacco-bb/polls).

Thanks,
Barry

Lorrie

06-25-2008, 09:13 AM

Ms Terry.

wacco-bb@ yahoo as first. (I belonged) Then Yahoo shut it down. Barry started it up again taking the 3,000 or whatever members he built up with him to the WaccoBB.net, If they wanted...which they did apparently. (Me too)

I suppose it seemed a loss to the Yahoo community so someone else started a new wacco-bb@ yahoo group I think it was that Peter guy.

So now as to your question as to who was first I would say that Barry's .net WaccoBB is.
I think He should keep the WaccoBB name and the other Wacco-bb should change their name ... or not.
I personally don't care.
Quite a few of the messages on Wacco-bb are also Posted on the WaccoBB site.
I never stopped with the wacco-bb site, so I potentially get a lot of deletable duplicates.
That is what I think.
k?

Well , why do they have the same name?
who was first?
I've never even seen the site, what is the difference?

ibassi

06-25-2008, 06:02 PM

To answer the question which yahoo group came first:

Peter went on to be a founding moderator at the Wacco-BB group that was established right after WaccoBB was terminated.

Well , why do they have the same name?
who was first?
I've never even seen the site, what is the difference?

wacco-bb@ yahoo as first. (I belonged) Then Yahoo shut it down. Barry started it up again taking the 3,000 or whatever members he built up with him to the WaccoBB.net, If they wanted...which they did apparently. (Me too)

I suppose it seemed a loss to the Yahoo community so someone else started a new wacco-bb@ yahoo group I think it was that Peter guy.

*Barry,
I tried to vote in the poll(because I have been confused by this)and I could only see "members only" access... When I follow the link I receive the following prompt; is there a work around to joining their group?

Activate Web Access

To confirm your membership and activate Web Access for this group, we need to verify your email address so it can be associated with your Yahoo! account.

Email address:

Locate the email address where you currently receive messages from group wacco-bb and click Verify. If you receive group messages at a different address, enter that email address in the text box and click Add. A verification email will be sent to confirm the address belongs to you and complete your Web Access activation.

Barry

06-25-2008, 07:45 PM

*Barry,
I tried to vote in the poll(because I have been confused by this)and I could only see "members only" access... When I follow the link I receive the following prompt; is there a work around to joining their group?

First, I want to make it very clear that I request that you don't join the Wacco-BB Yahoogroup in order to vote.

As I remember (it's been a while!) while you can join a Yahoogroup by sending an email, you need to create a Yahoo ID in order to vote in their polls. I remember it to be a cumbersome process. Maybe its better now.

If you are already a member of the Wacco-BB yahoogroup (and you have received email from them) and you want to want to vote in the poll, I suggest you contact the moderators there for assistance by sending an email to [email protected].

Zeno Swijtink

06-25-2008, 08:02 PM

Well , why do they have the same name?
who was first?
I've never even seen the site, what is the difference?

We are talking here about a family of Yahoo! lists. The name Wacco predates Barry, who later became a "Owner" and eventually only Moderator of the various off-springs, WaccoBB, WaccoTalk, WaccoReader, WaccoSingles.

Do we need to tell this whole history here? It's not a nice story. By raising the whole idea of a name change Barry has opened a can of worms. Quite a number of people still feel bad about this. As I said, there has been no atonement.

I looked at my old Wacco files and I found this message I posted on [email protected] about three years ago.

To: WaccoTalk <[email protected]>
From: Zeno Swijtink <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:26:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [WaccoTalk] Fwd: WHAT happened to our VERY valuable email
groups?? (KMM39995894V73680L0KM)

At 9:24 PM -0700 7/16/05, tacitus wrote:
>I think someone said this earlier but it does appear that Yahoo has received
>notice from someone that WaccoBB was in violation of their TOS. Whether
>this has to do money I don't know, though it seems possible. Taking a look
>at the TOS would appear to be the next step in this particular chapter.
>
>Dian

Yahoo! is a business. It makes money by selling ad space in exchange
for the attention of an exclusive and - they hope - attentive
audience.

Anything that takes away from this goal they will fight, incl. third
parties making their own money by using their "free" service. Some of
us warned against this when the list discussed to reimburse Barry for
all the work he was putting in the list. The warning was brushed off.
Making it optional was thought to deflect this danger.

Creating the new Wacco website was even a greater threat to them
since now the Yahoo! free service was used a stepping stone to create
a competing business that could potentially siphon off over 3000
people.

For future lists I think it is important to have rotating moderators.

Over the years Barry developed a feeling of ownership for the Wacco
family of lists. This may have been inevitable given the tons of
thought and time he put into it. I myself feel pretty protective
about lists as SonomaWildlife in which I have put a lot of time and
effort.

But for the Wacco brand of lists that he developed Barry did not
always make the most happy decisions. (For instance, WaccoSingles got
spoiled by allowing anonymous membership which helped balloon the
membership but harmed the original playfulness and intimacy of the
list.) Now valuable community resources are lost because of the
gamble that Yahoo! would not notice or care.

Of course the loss will only be temporarily. There is Barry's new web
based messages board and other people will step in with a number of
other elists (Yahoo! or sonic) that deliver email to the in-box. New
technologies and social software are also constantly emerging that
may help us to connect and coordinate (blogging, iChat, mobile
gadgets see:
<https://wade.trblogs.com/archives/2005/07/social_machines_2.html?trk=nl>https://wade.trblogs.com/archives/2005/07/social_machines_2.html?trk=nl
)

The Amish have a rule I believe that a business has to be split and
sold off if it becomes too big. Proceeds go to a community fund to
help young people start their own businesses.

Cheers, Zeno

------- SUBSCRIPTION and POSTING INFORMATION ---------------
* This list is for community discussions.
Any topic is welcome however all posts must be original.
Please do NOT post forwarded articles here.
Website: <https://groups.yahoo.com/group/WaccoTalk/>https://groups.yahoo.com/group/WaccoTalk/

Use this group by sending a blank email to:
- Post: [email protected]
-Unsubscribe: [email protected]
- Subscribe: [email protected]
- Assistance: [email protected]

MsTerry

06-25-2008, 08:17 PM

.

Do we need to tell this whole history here? It's not a nice story. By raising the whole idea of a name change Barry has opened a can of worms. Quite a number of people still feel bad about this. As I said, there has been no atonement.

I still can't put my fingers on it, but there is some funny business going on here.
Why is Barry attached to the Wacco name?
After Craig's list he could name it Barry Board, not?

mykil

06-25-2008, 10:08 PM

Oh Mizz Terry; unlike you and I some people have a need for a vanilla dependence when it comes to online communication! Barry can have harsh feelings if he wishes. He has put way to much time into this little board and has now decided it is large enough to support himself and a few others by keeping up his outstanding work. Although the other group will probably never dissolve, I don’t really think it will ever be like this board. The humor, comradely and thus the over all outstanding communications this little board puts out is over the top. Some, well hell, maybe more than we care to admit might not be able to handle us all, but the ones that do stick around outweigh the vanilla’s that seek the yahoo kind of structure by far. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Although I can’t condole Barry or anyone holding a grudge about anything whatsoever, I do have to give him latitude in defending his only source of income. The “DO NOT JOIN THAT GROUP” should be well apparent that it is him defending his income and we should support this! Plain and simple and put in defiant definition, who the hell cares, and we all know where the hell we are from time to time and should just let bygones be bygones! LMAO!!! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Hell I don’t even open the other side up anymore way to boring for little ole me! :2cents: PEACE!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

MsTerry

06-25-2008, 10:21 PM

Oh Mizz Terry;. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Although I can’t condole Barry or anyone holding a grudge about anything whatsoever, I do have to give him latitude in defending his only source of income. The “DO NOT JOIN THAT GROUP” should be well apparent that it is him defending his income and we should support this! Plain and simple and put in defiant definition, who the hell cares, and we all know where the hell we are from time to time and should just let bygones be bygones! LMAO!!! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p> :2cents: PEACE!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
OMG, Mykil are you exposing Barry as a defiant one?

Barry

06-26-2008, 12:04 AM

... The “DO NOT JOIN THAT GROUP” should be well apparent that it is him defending his income and we should support this!
<o:p></o:p>

I don't care if you join that board or not. I just want to be clear I am NOT asking people on this board who are not members on the other board to join in order to vote. The poll should just be for current members of Wacco-BB, many of which are also members here.

thewholetruth

06-26-2008, 07:12 AM

I wasn't remotely interested in participating in another group. But this post, Lorrie, piqued my interest. Gotta check it out now. I'm thinking to myself "Self, maybe this is where the West Country moderate/conservatives are". :thumbsup:

Ms Terry.

wacco-bb@ yahoo as first. (I belonged) Then Yahoo shut it down. Barry started it up again taking the 3,000 or whatever members he built up with him to the WaccoBB.net, If they wanted...which they did apparently. (Me too)

I suppose it seemed a loss to the Yahoo community so someone else started a new wacco-bb@ yahoo group I think it was that Peter guy.

So now as to your question as to who was first I would say that Barry's .net WaccoBB is.
I think He should keep the WaccoBB name and the other Wacco-bb should change their name ... or not.
I personally don't care.
Quite a few of the messages on Wacco-bb are also Posted on the WaccoBB site.
I never stopped with the wacco-bb site, so I potentially get a lot of deletable duplicates.
That is what I think.
k?

MsTerry

06-26-2008, 07:39 AM

So Barry,
Why do the 2 groups have the same name?
Can't you be the bigger man and choose to change the name?
I'm still confused about the whole thing, but I understand that there are some people that are pretty mad at you.
It's a little Wacko.

I don't care if you join that board or not. I just want to be clear I am NOT asking people on this board who are not members on the other board to join in order to vote. The poll should just be for current members of Wacco-BB, many of which are also members here.

MsTerry

06-26-2008, 09:28 AM

Barry

06-26-2008, 10:42 AM

What I have been able to piece together,(Barry correct me where I am wrong) is that in the beginning there was a yahoo group called Wacco-BB. After some time Barry offered to monitor the site.
Not everyone was happy about this (the word dictator was mentioned). During Barry's time the group grew substantially.
Barry decided to create his own group with less restrictions and felt that he could retain the same name and take his supporters with him.
Let's putt this same scenario in the real ,not virtual,world.
I am hired by WF as a manager and help the store grow.
After some time I decide to open up my own store,with the same concept and call it W-F and take all the customers with me.
In order to avoid confusion and getting in legal trouble I ask them to change their name.

Barry, unless you were part of the people that picked the name, you have no legal right to use that name.
There is some proprietary value to a name.
What if I open up a Website and call it Wacco.BB?
Would that be any different?
What is stopping you from renaming and reclaiming what you have achieved?

Mis-information and mis-understanding abounds on this topic, including your post. I wrote a letter to the moderators of Wacco-BB to change their name. The moderators decided to present that to the group.

I am not going to get embroiled in this discussion and correct each mis-statement. I will briefly correct some of your mis-information.

1)
...in the beginning there was a yahoo group called Wacco-BB. Wrong! This is another case of the rampant confusion. In the beginning there was a group call "Wacco" (no BB). I offered to take over as the leader/moderator/owner. Yahoo refers to that position as "owner".

As the new owner, I renamed it to "WacooBB" (no dash). At roughly the same time (as in hours) after Yahoo pulled the plug on WaccoBB, a small group of people created the Wacco-BB group, including the person who contacted Yahoo.

2) As part of my management of the group after hearing that many people had stopped reading the posts because is was too big for an un-organized system, including many of the 200 members that were present when I took over ownership of the group, I decided to move to an independent and more powerful website. There was to be some sort of transition plan, the final step of which was to be the closing of the Yahoo group.

3) To correct your real world analogy: I was not "hired", i took over ownership. Leaders of organizations decide to change names and/or technologies all the time. In the real word, organizations trademark their name to prevent others of the un-ethical behavior of using the same or similar names of another organization and trade on the brand identification that they have established. In this "conscious community" I would have thought that would have been unnecessary. If they want to start something else, let them use another name.

I have not threatened any legal challenge. I merely sent a private letter to the modeators of Wacco-BB ask them to consider changing their name. They decided to bring it to their group. If they decide not to change it, so be it. The confusion will continue.

I see them changing their name as a way of restoring their integrity.

4) Yes, "There is some proprietary value to a name." Exactly. I spent countless hours as a volunteer building and guiding WaccoBB. Again, I took it over with just 200 people. I made it clear I was the leader or "benevolent dictator".

2,800 members that joined after I took over and imposed my guidelines and ran the list with a rather firm hand. I built it to what it became. I established the well known "Wacco" brand. I ran it the way I thought it should be run. And there were people who disagreed with how I ran it. As this forum attests, it's hard to get 2 or 3 people to agree on something, let alone 3,000!

The Wacco-BB list is something different. It's a fine thing. It's just not Wacco. Just because it uses the same technology as Wacco did, doesn't make it Wacco.

If you think the original technology is better, or that you prefer the way it is run to how I run this site, by all means, please join them and relinquish your membership here! Drop me a postcard sometime!

Zeno Swijtink

06-26-2008, 11:50 AM

One thing I agree with Barry: this website https://www.waccobb.net is much superior to the old or new Wacco Yahoo! lists. And he should be applauded for pulling it together.

Of course there is the irony of many Web 2.0 platforms: We are all volunteering hard to attract the clicks and eyeballs that generate an advertising income stream for the Owner. And he even convinces some of us to pay him for the honor :):

Lorrie

06-26-2008, 11:52 AM

Yeah!

MsTerry

06-26-2008, 11:56 AM

Barry thanks for your clarification, even though it raises more questions about the ownership or use of the Wacco name when you call yourself a volunteer and the leader of that board.
One can be the CEO of a company, but when you leave, you don't get to take the company name with you.

You never answered my final question;

What is stopping you from renaming and reclaiming what you have achieved?

Barry

06-26-2008, 12:18 PM

...You never answered my final question;

What is stopping you from renaming and reclaiming what you have achieved?
Nothing but a lot of time/money to change the change the site, answering a million questions, and establishing a new brand while abandoning a brand that I spent a lot of hard work establishing and relinquishing it to a group that is something different and that was instrumental to the dissolution of the original group.

Lorrie

06-26-2008, 03:13 PM

Why msTerry do you think that after all the time an effort to make this WACCOBB board...(One you use I am pretty sure more than the Yahoo brand) that BARRY should be the one to change??? Why would YOU even suggest it? He has made this sooooo much more than just a generic yahoo TOS dictated/moderated can do/can't do posts only; no talk ...you have to go to the other yahoo to talk and you have to go to another yahoo group to do this and to do that.
You can do all of it here in one place...(Thank you to Barry)
and he only moderates if it is harsly and totally unacceptable (meaning don't be mean to others here). That is all he asks....
You have found that difficult from time to time...look how much stuff you stir up here.. Just an instigater .... Yet he doesn't say you have to leave!

I think you should not be sticking it to Barry because he gave us something that NO YAHOO GROUP COULD EVER GIVE US!!!

Barry thanks for your clarification, even though it raises more questions about the ownership or use of the Wacco name when you call yourself a volunteer and the leader of that board.
One can be the CEO of a company, but when you leave, you don't get to take the company name with you.

You never answered my final question;

Lorrie

06-26-2008, 03:49 PM

Sure Go!
If you wanna git what you give!
Its perfect for you!! lol

I wasn't remotely interested in participating in another group. But this post, Lorrie, piqued my interest. Gotta check it out now. I'm thinking to myself "Self, maybe this is where the West Country moderate/conservatives are". :thumbsup:

MsTerry

06-26-2008, 05:05 PM

I think you should not be sticking it to Barry because he gave us something that NO YAHOO GROUP COULD EVER GIVE US!!!
Dearest Lorrie, no one is sticking it to Barry,
As a matter of fact, I am trying to help him see that his attachment to the Wacco name is just that, an attachment. He would be better served in the long run if he really makes it his own and names it himself.
There are two sites that are easy to move around in without getting lost for a computer illiterate person such as myself.
One is Craigslist, the other is this BarryBoard.
I never visit wacco-yahoo.
Barry Rocks :thumbsup: (says my daughter)

mykil

06-26-2008, 05:56 PM

OHHHH MIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTERRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY;
What are you trying to say here? That Barry has an additive controlling personality? LMFAO!!!!!

Dearest Lorrie, no one is sticking it to Barry,
As a matter of fact, I am trying to help him see that his attachment to the Wacco name is just that, an attachment. He would be better served in the long run if he really makes it his own and names it himself.
There are two sites that are easy to move around in without getting lost for a computer illiterate person such as myself.
One is Craigslist, the other is this BarryBoard.
I never visit wacco-yahoo.
Barry Rocks :thumbsup: (says my daughter)

MsTerry

06-26-2008, 06:07 PM

OHHHH MIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTERRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY;
What are you trying to say here? That Barry has an additive controlling personality? LMFAO!!!!!
I was just trying to be subtle and you have to poke my bubble
So, did you get married?
You've been awfully quiet.

MsTerry

06-28-2008, 08:12 PM

Barry, I know you are busy right now. but you might want to think this over. As a former PR person, I don't think you are making a wise choice to try to brand something, that needs to be explained everytime a new person sees it (eg what does Wacco mean) add the wacco-bb controversy to it and the fact that it is pronounced different ways and you have an unstable brand.
From what I can tell, you put the BB on it.
Why? because it says what it is.
And there lies YOUR strength. In terms of marketing it is best to let people know right from the start what you are doing, not make them guess (eg Whole Foods, Real Goods)
If you don't believe me, get the straight scoop from ShelleBelle
So what's wrong with calling it Barry's Bulletin Board or the The Bulletin Board.
A transition from WaccoBB to BBB is not that hard and it would generate some publicity as well.
Think about

Nothing but a lot of time/money to change the change the site, answering a million questions, and establishing a new brand while abandoning a brand that I spent a lot of hard work establishing and relinquishing it to a group that is something different and that was instrumental to the dissolution of the original group.

Zeno Swijtink

06-29-2008, 07:29 PM

I see them changing their name as a way of restoring their integrity.

This bold-faced assertion sticks out in your posting. Who are "they" and how have they lost their integrity?

alphagrl

07-02-2008, 12:19 AM

Barry,

WaccoBB is the site that everyone refers to as "the wacco". AND, when you think of all the posts and posters over the years, what could be a more appropriate name than WACCO! There are lots of wacky waccos who surface on your site. WACCO is perfect.

And, you've created a lot of brand equity through sweat equity!

Mozeltof,

Alana

StormDancer

07-03-2008, 10:15 AM