The First Global Revolution: A Report by the Council of the Club of Rome (1991)
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=8RNKHGbzUuAC
"It would seem that humans need a common motivation, namely a common adversary, to organize and act together in the vacuum; such a motivation must be found to bring the divided nations together to face an outside enemy, either a real one or else one invented for the purpose."
"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill."
“Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
Dick Cheney was the director of the CFR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbnpN07J_zg
Here is a quote from a recent article by the current CFR president Richard Haas
"Globalisation thus implies that sovereignty is not only becoming weaker in reality, but that it needs to become weaker. States would be wise to weaken sovereignty in order to protect themselves, because they cannot insulate themselves from what goes on elsewhere. Sovereignty is no longer a sanctuary."
https://www.cfr.org/publication/9903/sovereignty_and_globalisation.html
These elitist groups' goals are to establish an unelected one world government (i.e. to rule the world) through the UN by manipulation of the masses (war on terror, global warming), and to reduce world population to "manageable" levels (80-90% reduction). This will be attempted through war, social unrest and race wars (research La Raza, Aztlan, Mecha), famine, "natural" disasters (research HAARP), man-made diseases and bioweapons (expect more chemtrails), and vaccines. Are you being told by their controlled media and academia that humanity is the enemy and that there are too many of us? Good, you'll be more accepting of their genocide as their plans are carried out. Or would you rather let nature handle overpopulation if it exists, instead of Al Gore and his elitist buddies?
In addition to being a "globalist", Al Gore also appears to be a protégé of the late oil tycoon and known communist operative Armand Hammer, CEO of Occidental Petroleum Corporation.
Hammer supported Gore's father, Senator Al Gore Sr of Tennessee, with business partnerships prior to his entering politics. Financial support continued throughout his political career and a job was provided following his retirement from politics. The great influence of Hammer on the Gore family has sparked speculation that Al Gore Jr. is named after Armand (Gore Jr.'s middle name is only listed as "A." on his birth certificate). Here are some articles from 2000 on the subject:
https://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_11_16/ai_61361634
https://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=14917
https://crm114.com/algore/images/gore_family.jpg
Gore Sr on the left next to Hammer, with little Al Jr at far right
You might also look into William Jefferson Clinton and his admitted mentor, Carroll Quigley
https://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=603&title=Carroll_Quigley___Our_Tragedy_and_Their_Hope&vpkey=143a57db17
as well as the following groups:
CFR, Trilateral Commission, The Bilderberg Group, Skull & Bones
(btw Obama's handlers include Zbigniew Brzezinski - Trilateral Commission, Austan Goolsbee - Skull & Bones, and James A. Johnson - Bilderberg. Change??? Obama is a puppet and as establishment as it gets).
Wake up people. Our liberty and sovereignty are at stake. The longer it takes you to wake up to this, the smaller our chance is of defeating them. They are counting on your ignorance to succeed.
ENDGAME - Blueprint for Global Enslavement
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261
lecture by filmmaker
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4549873366067443695
d-cat
06-15-2008, 06:53 PM
Report From Iron Mountain On the Possibility and Desirability of Peace (1967)
The Dial Press, Inc. 1967, New York, Library of Congress Catalog card number 67-27553.
"Nevertheless, an effective political substitute for war would require "alternate enemies," some of which might seem equally farfetched in the context of the current war system. It may be, for instance, that gross pollution of the environment can eventually replace the possibility of mass destruction by nuclear weapons as the principal apparent threat to the survival of the species."
"It is true that the rate of pollution could be increased selectively for this purpose: in fact, the mere modifying of existing programs for the deterrence of pollution could speed up the process enough to make the threat credible much sooner. But the pollution problem has been so widely publicized in recent years that it seems highly improbably that a program of deliberate environmental poisoning could be implemented in a politically acceptable manner."
The Report From Iron Mountain is purportedly a government report on the subject of how to continue controlling the public and the economy in the absence of war. It has been renounced as a hoax by the establishment (as would be expected whether true or not) but was reported to have been verified by a top Pentagon official. True or not, the fact remains that there was discussion as far back as the 60's of the idea of using an environmental threat as a means of manipulating the masses and ushering in a one world government. In 1972, Leonard Lewin, who wrote the introduction to the published book, "admitted" that it was all a hoax and that he had written it all by himself. Quite extraordinary, considering how much of what is in the report is coming to fruition today.
the out of print book in pdf format for download:
https://www.projectcamelot.org/Report_from_Iron_Mountain.pdf
documentary: Iron Mountain - Blueprint To Tyranny
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8025268149177312936
Braggi
06-15-2008, 09:47 PM
So, which one is the AntiChrist and where do I line up for my 666?
You know, I'm all for conspiracy theories, but at least let's stick with some real ones. There are plenty out there and most of them overlap, but "chemtrails?" And HAARP? I suppose Obama caused the China earthquake? I've heard it was HAARP that did it. Those proposing that don't begin to understand anything about laws of physics. Hint: it takes a lot of power to cause an earthquake.
So anyway, what is it about putting solar panels on our roofs that creates a One World Government? I have trouble seeing how buying a fuel efficient car promotes the downfall of US sovereignty. Please connect the dots for me.
-Jeff
d-cat
06-21-2008, 12:13 AM
Environ-Mentalism: A New Religion for a New Age
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYl4hkFRdTk
Braggi
06-21-2008, 10:59 AM
Environ-Mentalism: A New Religion for a New Age
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYl4hkFRdTk
OK, so I watched it. Would you care to discuss those points that are issues for you, personally?
-Jeff
PS. You'll be happy to know the statue of Gaia featured near the middle of that video was created by my good friend and chosen family member Oberon Zell-Ravenheart. You can find more of Oberon's work at https://mythicimages.com/.
You'll also be interested to know that my wife was the original model for that statue although there were five models in total. The pose, belly and breasts are her. That's my son Braggi in Her belly. I took the photo from which Oberon's original work was inspired.
It's always nice to see the Millennial Gaia featured in media.
Lenny
06-22-2008, 06:58 AM
OK, so I watched it. Would you care to discuss those points that are issues for you, personally? -Jeff
Welllllllll, Jeff, it's kind of hard. That old notion of "Christianity" that is in our culture has us being 'compassionate' or looking favorably and worth saving ALL those folks that are 'useless eaters'. Contrary to Ted Turner, according to this film, that would mean not killing 95% of the population to allow the "top" 5% to live. The most progressive person I like told me that we should "let all those others" just starve or die without any intervention. Now that is very "evolutionary" but that is not how most people are brought up, at least around America. I know there are those that find those Christian notions hateful, and it was proven by Adolph that a well educated Christian nation could be turned rather quickly, so it proves to be "problematic" to the rest of us. Now if one's values are not in line with the Judeo-Christian notion that each life has value, then the only problem left is disposal. And to think that all in this film indicate that the "reason" for the elimination of most humans is simply a made up, faux, crisis. There is no such thing as eco-crisis and the cure is not the willfull destruction of man kind, or at least most of it.
It is not unreasonable that men would gather and plan things for others, nor is it unreasonable that wealthy, influenctial and powerful folks would do the same. And in so doing, denied freedoms that we take for granted, there is a problem. If they plan to reduce consumption, via "control" and manipulation of free markets to their planned ends, and heard us into some kind of "order" that is outside the individual's choice and contrary to their perceived well being, then there is suffering. Suffering is part of the human condition, but when done at the hands of another person, it is evil, unnecessary, and needs to be addressed towards elimination. If the suffering, as defined by the elite in this film, is not the human condition but humans themselves, then eliminating me, us, or all those around us, then it's time to GET BUSY.
thewholetruth
06-25-2008, 07:28 AM
Like the man said, Jeff, "They are counting on your ignorance to succeed."
Nice of you to accomodate them so enthusiastically.
I know it's hard for Liberals to imagine that any of ThEiR ilk would be involved in the "One World" goal of ruling the world that has been a plan for quite some time, or perhaps it's the idealistic version of Communism that Liberals think will work "this time" which has them coming alongside these would-be World Rulers from both the Liberal and Conservative camps. The truth is that we ALL need to step up and stop these particular fools from their power hungry quest to rule the world, and right now the citizens of the USA can be pivotal to that end by refusing to elect the stooges (Obama, Clinton, McCain) that the Wannabe World Rulers keep offering up as our leaders.
Of course, they're smart enough to know that people are so stupid that as long as they pretend that it's "Us against Them" (Liberals against Conservatives) we'll be oblivious to what "they" are really doing right now on a global scale.
If you think mankind is inherrently good, you're lost. If you think Algore is a good man, you're lost. If you think Algore is any different than McCain, you're lost. If you think Obama would make a good president, you're hopelessly lost.
In his own words: From Dreams of My Father: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites".
"I found solace in nursing a pevasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."
"It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."
"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I had paced all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcomlm, Dubois and Mandela."
And this is my favorite, from AUDACITY OF HOPE:
"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Do you get that, Jeff? Do you hear the man's promises and understand what they mean? So here is the part about "them" knowing how stupid we are collectively: You will still vote for the man come November, despite knowing what a racist he is, and despite his promise that he will willingly open the doors to our enemies when "the political winds shift in an ugly direction", which, btw, they already have.
So, which one is the AntiChrist and where do I line up for my 666?
You know, I'm all for conspiracy theories, but at least let's stick with some real ones. There are plenty out there and most of them overlap, but "chemtrails?" And HAARP? I suppose Obama caused the China earthquake? I've heard it was HAARP that did it. Those proposing that don't begin to understand anything about laws of physics. Hint: it takes a lot of power to cause an earthquake.
So anyway, what is it about putting solar panels on our roofs that creates a One World Government? I have trouble seeing how buying a fuel efficient car promotes the downfall of US sovereignty. Please connect the dots for me.
-Jeff
Braggi
06-25-2008, 08:08 AM
Like the man said, Jeff, "They are counting on your ignorance to succeed."
...
Don, I don't think you'd have any problem with a one world government as long as you got to design it. Thing is, a Christian one world government would look like the Inquisition and I'm against it. I don't relish the idea of having my family burned at the stake.
I still don't see how putting solar panels on our roofs makes us give up our national sovereignty. I also don't think that video paints a picture that is supported by facts. I also don't think a few lines taken out of context from a book paints an accurate picture of a man.
But you know all that.
-Jeff
Lorrie
06-25-2008, 09:23 AM
Don? Who would you have as president, if you had a choice?
I am curious.:):
Like the man said, Jeff, "They are counting on your ignorance to succeed."
Nice of you to accomodate them so enthusiastically.
I know it's hard for Liberals to imagine that any of ThEiR ilk would be involved in the "One World" goal of ruling the world that has been a plan for quite some time, or perhaps it's the idealistic version of Communism that Liberals think will work "this time" which has them coming alongside these would-be World Rulers from both the Liberal and Conservative camps. The truth is that we ALL need to step up and stop these particular fools from their power hungry quest to rule the world, and right now the citizens of the USA can be pivotal to that end by refusing to elect the stooges (Obama, Clinton, McCain) that the Wannabe World Rulers keep offering up as our leaders.
Of course, they're smart enough to know that people are so stupid that as long as they pretend that it's "Us against Them" (Liberals against Conservatives) we'll be oblivious to what "they" are really doing right now on a global scale.
If you think mankind is inherrently good, you're lost. If you think Algore is a good man, you're lost. If you think Algore is any different than McCain, you're lost. If you think Obama would make a good president, you're hopelessly lost.
In his own words: From Dreams of My Father: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites".
"I found solace in nursing a pevasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race."
"It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."
"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I had paced all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcomlm, Dubois and Mandela."
And this is my favorite, from AUDACITY OF HOPE:
"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Do you get that, Jeff? Do you hear the man's promises and understand what they mean? So here is the part about "them" knowing how stupid we are collectively: You will still vote for the man come November, despite knowing what a racist he is, and despite his promise that he will willingly open the doors to our enemies when "the political winds shift in an ugly direction", which, btw, they already have.
Lorrie
06-25-2008, 09:24 AM
Specifically...
Don? Who would you have as president, if you had a choice?
I am curious.:):
Lenny
06-25-2008, 03:26 PM
Don, I don't think you'd have any problem with a one world government as long as you got to design it. Thing is, a Christian one world government would look like the Inquisition and I'm against it. I don't relish the idea of having my family burned at the stake.
I like the quip of Ronald Reagan, "Communism works only in heaven, where they don't need it, and in hell where they already have it".
I pray that if Don were to think of setting up any one world government, I would have to go after him myself.
There is a four part series on The Inquisition on PBS. I'll have to find it at the store to watch. I've read too little about it, but from what I gather, it wasn't all that bad!!!! By that I mean that we have a knee-jerk reaction to those words, The Inquisition, and often come up with pictures of thousands being burned at the stake (yuch) monthly, but over the period of 300 years there were fewer than 3000. Now I know 10 a year is bad, but......At least that's what I read a while back, but I don't recall where to verify.
And Jeff, if they come after your family, well, you got friends, and we got your back....."from my cold, dead fingers.....".
I still don't see how putting solar panels on our roofs makes us give up our national sovereignty. I also don't think that video paints a picture that is supported by facts. I also don't think a few lines taken out of context from a book paints an accurate picture of a man.
But you know all that. -Jeff
Putting solar panels on a roof is what it means to be a Proud American, and supports our national sovereignty, or didn't you know that?
As for that video supporting the facts: stars/ backdrop:constellation.
It's all a matter of perspective.
And for that man, I fear that he may be a bad guy too (they all are) but I've enough faith in this system that it, and we, will survive him, though he will redefine "wealth" and "tax increase" and "government control" to the max!
And in the end we will be MORE dependent on the government and more things will work with the same sharpness as the DMV, public hospitals, the prison system, and about any other government agency that one may consider.
I guess my problem is that I believed the founders: the government is the evil enemy of freedom, and not a solution as FDR tried to make it.
Braggi
06-25-2008, 10:02 PM
... There is a four part series on The Inquisition ... but over the period of 300 years there were fewer than 3000. ...
Wow. That's amazing Lenny. I wondered where you got those numbers and I found them. That's what Catholics are saying online. Funny how nobody else thinks that.
Here's what one Jewish source I found says (it's worth a read): https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html
Note that the site is focused mainly on Jewish victims but mentions others. I think the real number of victims is in the 300,000 range at the very lowest estimate. In some cases entire villages were exterminated. Also remember the protestants had their own versions of prosecuting "heretics" with equally horrific results. I spent a little very uncomfortable time in a basement torture chamber in Germany that was used in those days. Those people who were "guests" there, presumably, were far less comfortable than I was. The machinery in that place ... was absolutely horrible. It's hard to believe we have people living today who think torture should be official US government policy. I would challenge them to spend an hour in that place and then see if they still feel the same way.
... And Jeff, if they come after your family, well, you got friends, and we got your back....."from my cold, dead fingers.....".
Lenny? Is that supposed to make me feel safer? :hmmm:
Well, there's way too much in this thread that deserves a response that I don't have time to respond to.
I'll leave you with this: I was in Copperfield's today and picked up a book. (I hate it when I do that!) I had to then read a few pages and now I have at home and I'm reading it. It's "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" by Jim Maars. A chilling read. Very sobering. It's the conspiracy book that supports conspiracy theories from both the Right and the Left. It features a lot of those names you've heard before. All those bankers, the CFR, the Nazis, the Russians and right up to good ol' G. W. Himself.
I'll say more another time about that.
-Jeff
PS. You're right. None of them are any good. That's why it's so important to choose the lesser of the evils. :wink:
thewholetruth
06-26-2008, 07:03 AM
Specifically...
No question I would have voted for Ron Paul has his army stood firm. And you? And why?
thewholetruth
06-26-2008, 07:09 AM
You're wrong about that, Jeff. I have no desire to rule the world, nor do I think it's a good idea that ANYONE have that job. Even if it started with a fair and wise king, there would be a successsor, who is human, thus the likelyhood of character flaws which translate into unnecessary suffering for others.
And what are you talking about "burning people at the stake", Jeff? LOL I see you've now VILLIFIED Christians. To even make a statement like that, you have to be pretty freaking deluded, Jeff. Waaaaaaaaaaay out there, dood.
And I am all for solar power for everything: cars, homes, business, recreation. We could do it. Man is standing in the way. That is, the love of MONEY is standing in the way in the form of those who are MAKING the money right now off of oil.
Don, I don't think you'd have any problem with a one world government as long as you got to design it. Thing is, a Christian one world government would look like the Inquisition and I'm against it. I don't relish the idea of having my family burned at the stake.
I still don't see how putting solar panels on our roofs makes us give up our national sovereignty. I also don't think that video paints a picture that is supported by facts. I also don't think a few lines taken out of context from a book paints an accurate picture of a man.
But you know all that.
-Jeff
thewholetruth
06-26-2008, 07:50 AM
Jeff, why would you even refer to events which occurred HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO? Are they relevant to the actions of Christians today? Rhetorical question, Jeff. The answer is "no".
The reason Christian haters point to events like that is because they don't have anything current they can hold up to try to shame Christians. But bringing up the Inquisition is like chastizing GERMANS TODAY for what HITLER did 50 years ago. Sounds silly to imagine trying to shame your German neighbors in Sebastopol for what Hitler did in Germany, doesn't it?
You sound so much sillier, Jeff. It's comical. It really says "I don't have a rock to throw so I'm going to invent one because I hate Christians so much". Hatred makes otherwise intelligent individuals behave like fools, Jeff. Yours is a case in point.
No one alive today was involved in the Inquisitions, Jeff. No one is even murdering heretics today, Jeff. Thus, bringing this up is a moot point. You might as well just post "I hate Christians" because that's all your comment accomplishes here. It reveals your bigotry toward Christians.
Wow. That's amazing Lenny. I wondered where you got those numbers and I found them. That's what Catholics are saying online. Funny how nobody else thinks that.
Here's what one Jewish source I found says (it's worth a read): https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html
Note that the site is focused mainly on Jewish victims but mentions others. I think the real number of victims is in the 300,000 range at the very lowest estimate. In some cases entire villages were exterminated. Also remember the protestants had their own versions of prosecuting "heretics" with equally horrific results. I spent a little very uncomfortable time in a basement torture chamber in Germany that was used in those days. Those people who were "guests" there, presumably, were far less comfortable than I was. The machinery in that place ... was absolutely horrible. It's hard to believe we have people living today who think torture should be official US government policy. I would challenge them to spend an hour in that place and then see if they still feel the same way.
Lenny? Is that supposed to make me feel safer? :hmmm:
Well, there's way too much in this thread that deserves a response that I don't have time to respond to.
I'll leave you with this: I was in Copperfield's today and picked up a book. (I hate it when I do that!) I had to then read a few pages and now I have at home and I'm reading it. It's "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" by Jim Maars. A chilling read. Very sobering. It's the conspiracy book that supports conspiracy theories from both the Right and the Left. It features a lot of those names you've heard before. All those bankers, the CFR, the Nazis, the Russians and right up to good ol' G. W. Himself.
I'll say more another time about that.
-Jeff
PS. You're right. None of them are any good. That's why it's so important to choose the lesser of the evils. :wink:
handy
06-26-2008, 08:09 AM
George said it best. RIP.
"I love people, I hate groups.
People are smart, groups are stupid."
~ George Carlin
MsTerry
06-26-2008, 08:10 AM
You sound so much sillier, Jeff. It's comical.
But Don, don't you remember that that is what pot will do to you?
Braggi
06-26-2008, 08:16 AM
Jeff, why would you even refer to events which occurred HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO? Are they relevant to the actions of Christians today? Rhetorical question, Jeff. The answer is "no".
...
Yes. Relevant. We are torturing "heretics" (or are they Moslems) in the name of the "War on Terror" right now, which G. W. Himself called a "Crusade."
Relevant. The Christians, argue if you will, are about 99% of our politicians and about 95% of our military and police forces.
All we need is one more manufactured "emergency" and Bush and Co. could call for martial law. There's still time. That's why it is so important to begin impeachment proceedings. To keep Him busy. (But don't worry, it won't happen.)
Let us not forget the lessons of His-story.
-Jeff
MsTerry
06-26-2008, 08:16 AM
And in the end we will be MORE dependent on the government and more things will work with the same sharpness as the DMV, public hospitals, the prison system, and about any other government agency that one may consider.
Lenny, I hope you never have to dial 911, because then you can find out how governed agencies work like the fire dept. the police or even the ambulance system work.
If my house is on fire can I call you instead? how long will it take you to get over here?
thewholetruth
06-26-2008, 08:19 AM
Where I work, we have to call 911 every other week or so on average. They are ALWAYS right there right now. No one has ever died because Emergency services were late. Oh, some have died, but not because Emergency services are late.
Lenny, I hope you never have to dial 911, because then you can find out how governed agencies work like the fire dept. the police or even the ambulance system.
If my house is on fire can I call you instead? how long will it take you to get over here?
thewholetruth
06-26-2008, 08:21 AM
Okaaaaaaay. *sarcastic look of unbelief*
You've got to be kidding, Jeff. Why don't you do a little reading on the Inquisitions before you make a fool of yourself by calling our occupation of Iraq that.
That's how far out there Liberals let themselves get, I suppose. That's how far out there y'all talk yourselves into.
Yes. Relevant. We are torturing "heretics" (or are they Moslems) in the name of the "War on Terror" right now, which G. W. Himself called a "Crusade."
Relevant. The Christians, argue if you will, are about 99% of our politicians and about 95% of our military and police forces.
All we need is one more manufactured "emergency" and Bush and Co. could call for martial law. There's still time. That's why it is so important to begin impeachment proceedings. To keep Him busy. (But don't worry, it won't happen.)
Let us not forget the lessons of His-story.
-Jeff
Lenny
06-26-2008, 03:15 PM
Lenny, I hope you never have to dial 911, because then you can find out how governed agencies work like the fire dept. the police or even the ambulance system work.
If my house is on fire can I call you instead? how long will it take you to get over here?
Thanks goodness we live in a wealthy, semi-rural area where those calls are answered by three vehicles, fire, ambulance, and cops. Redundancy, thy name is government. Of course we've all heard the horror stories of calling 911 in larger metro areas and what gov't can't do, as well as folks calling for their cats, to find food, and other notions of "emergency".
As for responding to you, it would take me forever since SWMBO would want to know every detail prior to responding. Not that I wouldn't, but you'd be one crispy critter.
Lorrie
06-26-2008, 03:46 PM
Why would you vote for someone that couldn't get his army to stay firm in an election?
If they did he would have had everything necessary to win the campaign.
Not as many were behind him...Why do you suppose that is?
Wait before you answer....
No question I would have voted for Ron Paul has his army stood firm. And you? And why?
Lorrie
06-26-2008, 03:48 PM
No question I would have voted for Ron Paul has his army stood firm. And you? And why?
Nothing to read into here. I don't want to say.
Lenny
06-26-2008, 04:15 PM
Wow. That's amazing Lenny. I wondered where you got those numbers and I found them. That's what Catholics are saying online. Funny how nobody else thinks that.
Here's what one Jewish source I found says (it's worth a read): https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html
Note that the site is focused mainly on Jewish victims but mentions others. I think the real number of victims is in the 300,000 range at the very lowest estimate. In some cases entire villages were exterminated. Also remember the protestants had their own versions of prosecuting "heretics" with equally horrific results. I spent a little very uncomfortable time in a basement torture chamber in Germany that was used in those days. Those people who were "guests" there, presumably, were far less comfortable than I was. The machinery in that place ... was absolutely horrible. It's hard to believe we have people living today who think torture should be official US government policy. I would challenge them to spend an hour in that place and then see if they still feel the same way.
Well, those stats seem about right from that article; however that may be history with their twist as well. Those first Jews (13 of them) were burned for murder of a child. Who knows?
But it's almost an unfair to lay it out with Spain regarding the Inquisition as "religious tool for the church" in 1492 or so, as they just kicked the Moslems out finally after about 700 years, and rooting out all of that problem was a serious political concern, not religious though dressed and promulgated as a "religious" issue; it had as much to do about religion as US in this current situation with the same group!
Quote:
Lenny wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=62604#post62604)
... And Jeff, if they come after your family, well, you got friends, and we got your back....."from my cold, dead fingers.....".
Lenny? Is that supposed to make me feel safer? :hmmm:
Now, Jeff, you know others aren't responsible for how you feel!
But it is good to know that there are those out here that are willing to fight for what is a good cause: freedom from fear and tyrannical forces that roam the world.
Knowing how you feel about G.W., if he sent 'storm troopers' out here, would you lay down and be taken to a camp? Several would not.
I recall reading about a few guns in the middle of Warsaw during WWII and a number off brave souls holding off the great German army for over a month!
I'll leave you with this: I was in Copperfield's today and picked up a book. (I hate it when I do that!) I had to then read a few pages and now I have at home and I'm reading it. It's "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" by Jim Maars. A chilling read. Very sobering. It's the conspiracy book that supports conspiracy theories from both the Right and the Left. It features a lot of those names you've heard before. All those bankers, the CFR, the Nazis, the Russians and right up to good ol' G. W. Himself. I'll say more another time about that. -Jeff
PS. You're right. None of them are any good. That's why it's so important to choose the lesser of the evils. :wink:
Well, those books need not be read after the age of 25.
After NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY, there was no reason to continue, although I did enjoy something about SUPER RICH, THE 400 FAMILIES OF AMERICA AND HOW THEY CONTROL EVERYTHING, or some such sensible read. Great book. Entrenched they are, so I'm happy just living on the fringe of what's created by the powers that be.
Oh, and voting for the lesser of evils is still evil. Conundrum we are in!
This I've never voted for a "winner".
Braggi
06-27-2008, 02:50 PM
Okaaaaaaay. *sarcastic look of unbelief* ...
Come on Don, I thought you were a True Believer. Aren't you on board with the Armageddonists, trying to push through to the Final Battle? Bush and Company are supposed to be on board with "them."
... You've got to be kidding, Jeff. Why don't you do a little reading on the Inquisitions before you make a fool of yourself by calling our occupation of Iraq that. ...
I've done a little. It was a persecution of what "Christianity" at the time thought of as "other." Herbalists and midwives were popular targets. They were labeled "baby killers." Sound familiar, Don? Now we have the Failed War on Some Drugs and the forced birth crowd. Same battle. The Inquisition never ended. It just waxes and wanes.
Like all wars, it's just about stealing and controlling people and property and like the Inquisition, our invasion of Iraq is more about religion than anything else. Oh, and gold (black gold, in this case). If you don't believe religion is about gold,go to a searchable Bible and search on Gold. You'll like how soon the authors begin to talk about how good gold is.
Religion, as most people know, is a tool to control people and property, kind of like war. Interesting that one definition of "Pagan" is "civilian" as opposed to Christian; "soldiers for Christ."
Yup. It's the Inquisition.
...That's how far out there Liberals let themselves get, I suppose. That's how far out there y'all talk yourselves into.
Oh us Liberals (I like that capital "L"), we're just a laugh a minute, you should know that. We spend a lot of time talking ourselves into things.
By the way, Don. What does Liberal mean to you? Know the root of the word? Just curious. I know you're big on the meaning of words and you are "TheWholeTruth," so I'm interested in what you say.
-Jeff
MsTerry
06-27-2008, 03:14 PM
Well, Lenny, that was my point.
The government seems tobeable to do something right considering how many people are being serviced.
I have no problem with DMV either.
Thanks goodness we live in a wealthy, semi-rural area where those calls are answered by three vehicles, fire, ambulance, and cops. Redundancy, thy name is government. Of course we've all heard the horror stories of calling 911 in larger metro areas and what gov't can't do, as well as folks calling for their cats, to find food, and other notions of "emergency".
As for responding to you, it would take me forever since SWMBO would want to know every detail prior to responding. Not that I wouldn't, but you'd be one crispy critter.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 07:57 AM
Come on Don, I thought you were a True Believer. Aren't you on board with the Armageddonists, trying to push through to the Final Battle? Bush and Company are supposed to be on board with "them."
I don't concern myself with Armageddon, Jeff. I'm more concerned with the hear and now. Life on this level is a full-time job, IMO. Tomorrow is God's business.
I've done a little. It was a persecution of what "Christianity" at the time thought of as "other." Herbalists and midwives were popular targets. They were labeled "baby killers." Sound familiar, Don? Now we have the Failed War on Some Drugs and the forced birth crowd. Same battle. The Inquisition never ended. It just waxes and wanes.
Like all wars, it's just about stealing and controlling people and property and like the Inquisition, our invasion of Iraq is more about religion than anything else. Oh, and gold (black gold, in this case). If you don't believe religion is about gold,go to a searchable Bible and search on Gold. You'll like how soon the authors begin to talk about how good gold is.
Religion, as most people know, is a tool to control people and property, kind of like war. Interesting that one definition of "Pagan" is "civilian" as opposed to Christian; "soldiers for Christ."
Yup. It's the Inquisition.
The Liberal community is full of Conspiracy Theorists, Jeff, busy trying to connect the dots. I don't subscribe. I look for the Lord's fingerprints, which I see all day every day, evidence of what He is up to. I don't try to outguess Him like y'all try to do. It's not the Inquisition, Jeff. That's absurd.
Oh us Liberals (I like that capital "L"), we're just a laugh a minute, you should know that. We spend a lot of time talking ourselves into things.
Amen, Jeff. I agree completely. I see that. I lived that for 36 years, so I'm familiar with Liberalism and Liberal thinking. The capital "L", btw, is because I'm not talking about one's thinking or POV. I'm talking about those individuals who embrace the religion of Liberalism, in which Liberalism is worshipped and logic, reason and the truth are ignored.
By the way, Don. What does Liberal mean to you? Know the root of the word? Just curious.
What Liberal means today is very different than what it meant even 40 years ago or 2000 years ago, thank you very little human nature. Extremely affected by major societal dysfunction today, codependence and selfishness steer the Liberals of today's world. Not so 40 years ago or 2000 years ago. Today's version of Liberalism is a very bastardized, practically indistinguishable version compared to the Liberal views of yesteryear. After 50 years and two or three generations of folks believing mantras like "If it feels good do it", "Looking out for number one" and the ridiculous "my truth/your truth" b.s., I view Liberalism today as invalid, illogical, self driven, dangerous and having nothing to do with love, right and wrong, open-mindedness, tolerance, all of which are out the door when it comes to Liberals dealing with Christians and Christianity. Of course, when I identified myself as Liberal, Christian hating wasn't part of it. Discriminating against whites and Christians wasn't part of it. Codepending homosexuality wasn't part of it, either. Homosexuality was acknowledged as the annomaly that it is. Liberals weren't supporting racism like they do now (supporting "Miss Black America" pagents and events created solely for black people and "The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People" for example, when Liberals would NEVER tolerate a National Association for the advancement of White People. That's called "Racism", and Liberals today support it.)
Liberalism is a reflection of social sickness today, in large part, making homosexuals their darlings, ignoring THE truth in favor of calling everyone's OPINIONS "my truth" and "your truth", blind and oblivious to the fact that the word "truth" means something. It's gotten way out there, Jeff, and today's version of Liberalism is a major part of the problem in America today.
Fortunately, the very vocal left are extremists and nut cases and thus this version of Liberalism folks embrace today can't get a real foothold, because most people have more common sense than to support racism and discrimination against whites and Christians like y'all do today.
But all of this said, the battle is not between you and me, Jeff. It is not a battle of flesh and blood. It is truly spiritual warfare taking place and those spiritually undeveloped cannot see it going on, thus they're deluded into thinking they are the center of the Universe, when the truth is that our Creator created us and everything on the planet, we haven't the power to do anything REMOTELY similar, and we're not the center of anything, other than we're SELF-centered, which isn't the same thing at all as being the center of the Universe. It's unhealthy, this self-centeredness, and Liberalism is all about worshipping Self today.
Probably more than you expected, but I'm sure I provided plenty of ammunition for you to vilify me and attack me with. :thumbsup:
I know you're big on the meaning of words and you are "TheWholeTruth," so I'm interested in what you say.
I'm not sure that's sincere, Jeff, but I appreciate you saying it the way you did. :hmmm:
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 08:33 AM
the truth is that our Creator created us and everything on the planet,
How come the Creator put those darn Christian hating, Co-depending Homosexual Loving, Rascist, invalid, illogical, self driven, dangerous and having nothing to do with love, right and wrong, open-mindedness, tolerance, Liberals on this planet?
Lenny
06-28-2008, 08:51 AM
Why would you vote for someone that couldn't get his army to stay firm in an election? If they did he would have had everything necessary to win the campaign.
Herding cats!
Lorrie, I find no group more "diverse" and opinionated as Libertarians. That group marries strange bedfellows for sure, so not standing together is what they do best! The fact that we got this far is amazing to many.
Not as many were behind him...Why do you suppose that is? Wait before you answer....
Wait for what before answered? The shouting will make the deaf quake.
Do you want "the abortion" answer? Or the "Israel" answer? Or the "gold" answer? How about the "marriage" answer? I mean more than most can we decide on how to disagree.
What a country!
Lenny
06-28-2008, 08:53 AM
How come the Creator put those darn Christian hating, Co-depending Homosexual Loving, Rascist, invalid, illogical, self driven, dangerous and having nothing to do with love, right and wrong, open-mindedness, tolerance, Liberals on this planet?
From your keyboard to God's screen. I'll have to ask that when I get there, but I fear the chasm will be to great for Her to hear.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 09:27 AM
How come the Creator put those darn Christian hating, Co-depending Homosexual Loving, Rascist, invalid, illogical, self driven, dangerous and having nothing to do with love, right and wrong, open-mindedness, tolerance, Liberals on this planet?
He didn't put Christian hating, Co-depending Homosexual Loving, Rascist, invalid, illogical, self driven, dangerous and having nothing to do with love, right and wrong, open-mindedness, tolerance, Liberals on this planet. He put people here, and some of us BECAME those things, left to our own devices, and so, subject to the Enemy who comes to steal, kill and destroy us and our families. Others have not become those things, Ms. Terry, having found value in practicing principles and in seeking His will for us (after all, He has plans for us, to prosper and not to harm us) as a way of life.
He could have designed and created us all to be madly in love with Him, devoted and obedient right out of the chute. Apparently, like the rest of us who are made in His image, He wanted us to love Him NOT because He forced us to, but because the experience of our relationship with Him - those of us who have one - results in our falling madly in love with Him because of who He is, He who provides and heals and loves and blesses and teaches and corrects and forgives us the way He does.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 09:29 AM
From your keyboard to God's screen. I'll have to ask that when I get there, but I fear the chasm will be to great for Her to hear.
I'm afraid you're correct, sir. :thumbsup:
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 09:51 AM
. He put people here, and some of us BECAME those things, left to our own devices, and so, subject to the Enemy who comes to steal, kill and destroy us and our families.
Gosh darn Don, you finally said it! There is such a thing as My Truth or your truth, as in our own devices.(which after all God created). Now besides those Liberals why did God create "the Enemy"?
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 09:57 AM
Is that Her-esy?
From your keyboard to God's screen. I'll have to ask that when I get there, but I fear the chasm will be to great for Her to hear.
Lenny
06-28-2008, 10:05 AM
Well, Lenny, that was my point.
The government seems to be able to do something right considering how many people are being serviced. I have no problem with DMV either.
So, if things are slow and one needs a slow, measured response, then government can fill that bill, is that it? We may agree on many things, but this is hardly one. Still elements of truth abound.
For me the Katrina debacle was about the norm in government response, and I know many want to put it directly on G.W., but it doesn't really stand that way. I've no real problem with the DMV lately, but from what we know, we are simply comparing it to what use to be, a nightmare. Thank goodness for internet stuff on that end. Much past the city size, government simply moves out of its way in greater and greater amounts of time AND money. At the county level we have the grand jury that will look into any machinations that are brought to its attention. And I encourage that in every way, and often. Past the county level, and it's all a cumbersome behemoth. And we won't even mention the alphabet soup of government agencies. You are right: the government can do SOMTHINGS right. But mostly not.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 10:09 AM
Gosh darn Don, you finally said it! There is such a thing as My Truth or your truth, as in our own devices.(which after all God created). Now besides those Liberals why did God create "the Enemy"?
You couldn't be more wrong, Ms. Terry. There is no such thing as "your truth" or "my truth". There is THE truth, or there is that which not THE truth, of which opinions fall. Look the word up already, for goodness sake.
Our own devices, Ms. Terry, certainly has nothing necessarily to do with the truth. How you leapt to calling "our own devices" the same as "my truth/your truth" shows how desperate you are, methinks, to rationalize your own devices. Our own devices, Ma'am, means our own selfish agenda coupled with our own limited power and limited wisdom, as opposed to the being in the Lord's plans FOR us, with the Lord's infinite power and wisdom that we tap into when we seek Him with all of our heart.
I hope you weren't injured in that fall, Ms. Terry, because a reckless giant leap like you just took surely resulted in an awkward landing, at best. :wink: Why, I can see it from here.
Lenny
06-28-2008, 10:14 AM
Gosh darn Don, you finally said it! There is such a thing as My Truth or your truth, as in our own devices.(which after all God created). Now besides those Liberals why did God create "the Enemy"?
As I imperfectly understand it, so you'all can correct me, it is just two words:
Free Choice.
And believe me that knocks me off my ass.
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 10:30 AM
You couldn't be more wrong, Ms. Terry. There is no such thing as "your truth" or "my truth". There is THE truth, or there is that which not THE truth, of which opinions fall. Look the word up already, for goodness sake.
We already went over this, Don
I even printed it for you so that you could see it, but instead you put your blinders all the way in front of you.
Our own devices, Ms. Terry, certainly has nothing necessarily to do with the truth. How you leapt to calling "our own devices" the same as "my truth/your truth" shows how desperate you are, methinks, to rationalize your own devices. Our own devices, Ma'am, means our own selfish agenda coupled with our own limited power and limited wisdom, as opposed to the being in the Lord's plans FOR us, with the Lord's infinite power and wisdom that we tap into when we seek Him with all of our heart.Don, this is your truth not everybody else's truth.
God did leave us to our own devices, unless you consider talking to yourself, a divine contact.
In your finite wisdom you forgot to tell us why the "Creator" created "the Enemy"?
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 10:32 AM
As I imperfectly understand it, so you'all can correct me, it is just two words:
Free Choice.
And believe me that knocks me off my ass.
And that is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Braggi
06-28-2008, 11:44 AM
I don't concern myself with Armageddon, Jeff. I'm more concerned with the hear and now. Life on this level is a full-time job, IMO. Tomorrow is God's business. ...
I'm sincerely glad to hear that. You keep giving me reasons to believe that you are at least seeking grounding in reality even if you have a hard time finding it.
...
What Liberal means today is very different than what it meant even 40 years ago or 2000 years ago, thank you very little human nature. ...
And I thought words meant something to you, Don! You disappoint me here. This is your truth, Don, not anyone else's I've ever talked to except perhaps ReportandDeport. I know you and he are cut from different cloth, as they say, but it saddens me to see all your projections on the word liberal.
The root of liberal truly is a capitol "L" word and few who use the the word liberal as a curse word, as you do, know what it means. Liberal is based on the name of the Roman God Liber, whose name means literallly "to be free." His sister and alter ego is the Goddess Liberty who used to be respected in this country. Seems to me since Nixon days and probably before, that Goddess is getting less and less respect in this country as time goes by.
So liberals are people who want to be free, Don and liberals want you to be free as well as long as you're allowing them to be free.
So maybe you've misidentified who liberals are. Maybe the hatred you're seeing in them is just a reflection of what's in your own heart. Maybe the "discrimination" you're seeing is what you're creating through the filters of your own prejudice.
The Wiccans have a saying: If it harms none, do what you will. That's a statement of freedom with responsibility. What it means to "harm none" is a source of endless debate, of course, but I think Christians would view that as free choice. I think a healthy inner compass allows us to make those choices in a healthy way. Some's compasses better than other's.
...
Probably more than you expected, but I'm sure I provided plenty of ammunition for you to vilify me and attack me with. :thumbsup: ...
I don't think I do much vilifying or attacking Don. That might be your projection again. Gotta watch that. :wink:
-Jeff
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 11:47 AM
We already went over this, Don
I even printed it for you so that you could see it, but instead you put your blinders all the way in front of you.
Don, this is your truth not everybody else's truth.
Impossible, Ms. Terry. I don't have "a truth". Either it's the truth, or it's not. If it's not the truth, then it cannot be called "truth". It becomes a "lie" or an "opinion", but calling an opinion "my truth" is absurd. It's my opinion, your opinion, but it cannot be called "truth" if it isn't THE truth.
God did leave us to our own devices, unless you consider talking to yourself, a divine contact.
Wrong again, Ms. Terry. He is with us always. For those who know Him, He is in us, in fact. If you seek Him, you will find Him. Reach out to Him and He will reach out to you. We are never alone, Ma'am, and never left to our own devices unless that is how we choose to walk each day. The choice is ours, each and every one of us, every single day we spend above ground. I don't expect you to understand and I don't judge you because you don't understand, because I understand why that is.
In your finite wisdom you forgot to tell us why the "Creator" created "the Enemy"?
As Lenny already told you, which you are now feigning ignorance to pretend you didn't see: Free choice, or free will, Ms. Terry. The Lord gave us that to choose our paths in this life. He doesn't want us to love Him because He forces us to. He wants us to develop spiritually and personally, to seek a relationship with Him because He is our Creator and because He loves us so much. If we trust Him and seek Him and follow Him, He gives us eyes to see the truth, Ma'am. For those who see, we also become extraordinarily grateful for what He's done for us, and love comes completely natural to those in that kind of a state of gratitude.
The Enemy made his own choice, Ms. Terry, as do you. He paid a price for it, as well, as do you.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 12:10 PM
I'm sincerely glad to hear that. You keep giving me reasons to believe that you are at least seeking grounding in reality even if you have a hard time finding it.
Jeff heaving rock #1 for this post.
And I thought words meant something to you, Don! You disappoint me here. This is your truth, Don...
Is what I said true or not, Jeff? Yes or no?
Either it's the truth or it's not. I don't have "a truth", Jeff. I line up with Reality in things either being true or not true. I haven't the power to make up "a truth". I do have the power to acknowledge what IS true and what is not. That which is not the truth, by the way, cannot be called "truth", Jeff, not "my truth", not "your truth", not "Beelzebub's truth". If it's not THE truth, Jeff, then it's no one's truth.
...not anyone else's I've ever talked to except perhaps ReportandDeport. I know you and he are cut from different cloth, as they say, but it saddens me to see all your projections on the word liberal.
You asked me what Liberal means. I haven't "projected" anything. I simply answered your question and told you what I've observed in the behavior of Liberals today. If you disagree with me, by all means be more specific and let's talk about it...if you have the courage to go there. It seems like you feel a little safer throwing rocks from afar, but I'd be happy to address my observations on today's Liberals and today's version of Liberalism line for line if you dare.
So liberals are people who want to be free, Don and liberals want you to be free as well as long as you're allowing them to be free.
I see, so it's a conditional thing, this being "free"? Let me see if I understand you here: If I don't want them to be free to drive on the roadways intoxicated or kill babies before they're born, then they don't want me to be free? Why is that, Jeff? That seems like an odd philosophy. Either they want people to be free or they don't. Which is it?
So maybe you've misidentified who liberals are.
Maybe I haven't misidentified anything, Jeff. I've merely shared with you my observation of the behavior of many Liberals I've encountered in my 53 years on the planet. If you'd like to take my observation line by line, let's do it. I'd love to talk about the blatant racism and open discrimination practiced by today's Liberals if you want to have an honest dialogue about it.
Maybe the hatred you're seeing in them is just a reflection of what's in your own heart. Maybe the "discrimination" you're seeing is what you're creating through the filters of your own prejudice.
I don't discriminate against anyone, Jeff, nor do I hate anyone. I also refuse to codepend anyone.
The Wiccans have a saying: If it harms none, do what you will. That's a statement of freedom with responsibility. What it means to "harm none" is a source of endless debate, of course, but I think Christians would view that as free choice. I think a healthy inner compass allows us to make those choices in a healthy way. Some's compasses better than other's.
If American Liberals followed that creed, Jeff, the world would be a better place. They don't. They support killing children before they're born. That harms some. So holding up the Wiccan's creed is meaningless, Jeff, when you don't follow it yourself. It seems comical, in fact, that you would offer it up at all, all things considered.
I don't think I do much vilifying or attacking Don. That might be your projection again. Gotta watch that. :wink:
I disagree, Jeff. You spend a lot of time vilifying and attacking me and others who disagree with you here, and you're careful to avoid having an actual dialogue about things, as well, carefully avoiding addressing specific statements in favor of throwing rocks at me personally and generally.
Braggi
06-28-2008, 01:13 PM
...
I disagree, Jeff. You spend a lot of time vilifying and attacking me and others who disagree with you here, and you're careful to avoid having an actual dialogue about things, as well, carefully avoiding addressing specific statements in favor of throwing rocks at me personally and generally.
"Projection is a wonderful thing."
-Jeff
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 01:35 PM
Impossible, Ms. Terry. I don't have "a truth". Either it's the truth, or it's not. If it's not the truth, then it cannot be called "truth". It becomes a "lie" or an "opinion", but calling an opinion "my truth" is absurd. It's my opinion, your opinion, but it cannot be called "truth" if it isn't THE truth.
I'll keep it simple for you .
Is Islam the truth or a lie?
is Buddhism the truth or a lie?
is Hinduism the truth or a lie?
is any religion other than Christianity the truth or a lie?
Please note that you can only pick one answer
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 01:41 PM
OK, I get it, we are mixing different forms of gov.
I am thinking local and county wide.
Katrina was a lesson for GW, He did screw up, he did not act when it was needed to overstep all the little agencies that usually help.
In the end it was the little agencies that made the diference
So, if things are slow and one needs a slow, measured response, then government can fill that bill, is that it? We may agree on many things, but this is hardly one. Still elements of truth abound.
For me the Katrina debacle was about the norm in government response, and I know many want to put it directly on G.W., but it doesn't really stand that way. I've no real problem with the DMV lately, but from what we know, we are simply comparing it to what use to be, a nightmare. Thank goodness for internet stuff on that end. Much past the city size, government simply moves out of its way in greater and greater amounts of time AND money. At the county level we have the grand jury that will look into any machinations that are brought to its attention. And I encourage that in every way, and often. Past the county level, and it's all a cumbersome behemoth. And we won't even mention the alphabet soup of government agencies. You are right: the government can do SOMTHINGS right. But mostly not.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 01:42 PM
"Projection is a wonderful thing."
-Jeff
Let me make it even easier for you then, Jeff, since your implication is that you aren't here to throw rocks and avoid the truth. Here is my response to your previous inquiry regarding my understanding of what Liberalism is. Please take the time to let me know specifically what you disagree with if you disagree with any of it, rather than giving such an irrelevant, generic response such as you already did.
Or do you agree with me about all of this? I'm interested in your thoughts now:
What Liberal means today is very different than what it meant even 40 years ago or 2000 years ago, thank you very little human nature. Extremely affected by major societal dysfunction today, codependence and selfishness steer the Liberals of today's world. Not so 40 years ago or 2000 years ago. Today's version of Liberalism is a very bastardized, practically indistinguishable version compared to the Liberal views of yesteryear. After 50 years and two or three generations of folks believing mantras like "If it feels good do it", "Looking out for number one" and the ridiculous "my truth/your truth" b.s., I view Liberalism today as invalid, illogical, self driven, dangerous and having nothing to do with love, right and wrong, open-mindedness, tolerance, all of which are out the door when it comes to Liberals dealing with Christians and Christianity. Of course, when I identified myself as Liberal, Christian hating wasn't part of it. Discriminating against whites and Christians wasn't part of it. Codepending homosexuality wasn't part of it, either. Homosexuality was acknowledged as the annomaly that it is. Liberals weren't supporting racism like they do now (supporting "Miss Black America" pagents and events created solely for black people and "The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People" for example, when Liberals would NEVER tolerate a National Association for the advancement of White People. That's called "Racism", and Liberals today support it.)
Liberalism is a reflection of social sickness today, in large part, making homosexuals their darlings, ignoring THE truth in favor of calling everyone's OPINIONS "my truth" and "your truth", blind and oblivious to the fact that the word "truth" means something. It's gotten way out there, Jeff, and today's version of Liberalism is a major part of the problem in America today.
Fortunately, the very vocal left are extremists and nut cases and thus this version of Liberalism folks embrace today can't get a real foothold, because most people have more common sense than to support racism and discrimination against whites and Christians like y'all do today.
But all of this said, the battle is not between you and me, Jeff. It is not a battle of flesh and blood. It is truly spiritual warfare taking place and those spiritually undeveloped cannot see it going on, thus they're deluded into thinking they are the center of the Universe, when the truth is that our Creator created us and everything on the planet, we haven't the power to do anything REMOTELY similar, and we're not the center of anything, other than we're SELF-centered, which isn't the same thing at all as being the center of the Universe. It's unhealthy, this self-centeredness, and Liberalism is all about worshipping Self today.
Braggi
06-28-2008, 03:48 PM
Let me make it even easier for you then, Jeff, since your implication is that you aren't here to throw rocks and avoid the truth. ... Please take the time to let me know specifically what you disagree with if you disagree with any of it, rather than giving such an irrelevant, generic response such as you already did.
...
If I was here to "avoid the truth" I wouldn't be here.
My comment was not irrelevant, Don. I was letting you know what Liberal (with a capitol L) means. It means a person who loves freedom Don. That's not so tough. You didn't respond to that because you don't like the truth. You make up your own version of the truth Don and then try to force it on others. Doesn't work that way. Not with me.
...
Or do you agree with me about all of this? I'm interested in your thoughts now:
What Liberal means today is very different than what it meant even 40 years ago or 2000 years ago, thank you very little human nature. Extremely affected by major societal dysfunction today, codependence and selfishness steer the Liberals of today's world. ...
...
No, Don. That doesn't describe me but I am a liberal minded person. So these are the "rocks" you throw. Mean, offensive verbiage. You come here claiming we're all "Liberals" and then you define it in such a disgusting and dismissive way. And then you claim to be TheWholeTruth? Your presentation is just so rude Don. Don't you see that?
You claim to want intelligent discussion here, but who wants to discuss anything with someone who sets himself so far above those he's trying to converse with.
You claim the power and authority of your God, and then you offend everyone else on the board. What fun is that, Don?
...
But all of this said, the battle is not between you and me, Jeff. ...
Of course not. This is a one person battle. The rest of us are just watching you wrestle with your inner demons on this list.
... It is truly spiritual warfare taking place and those spiritually undeveloped cannot see it going on, thus they're deluded into thinking they are the center of the Universe ...
So you see it all clearly because you are spiritually developed and not deluded? The rest of us are all Liberals and deluded and undeveloped? Is that right? Because I'm not at spiritual war Don. I don't want to play that game with you or anyone. I'd like to avoid war, if I can. And I think the spiritual is the physical, so how about that? Deluded, eh? I think not. That's just the truth. You can choose to realize it or not.
I think those who have been convinced they need to be in a state of constant war are deluded. What a shame! How awful that must be! To not be able to rest because it's necessary to be constantly on the alert. What a sad way to live.
... the truth is that our Creator created us and everything on the planet, we haven't the power to do anything REMOTELY similar, and we're not the center of anything, other than we're SELF-centered, which isn't the same thing at all as being the center of the Universe. It's unhealthy, this self-centeredness, and Liberalism is all about worshipping Self today.
Well, we are the only beings that can create more humanity. That's the Truth. We are the Creators. Take some responsibility, Don. That's one of the problems in this world that we can agree on: not enough people acting responsibly and not enough taking responsibility for their actions. I don't think there is a divide among liberals or conservatives. I think everyone needs to be responsible.
-Jeff
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 05:35 PM
If I was here to "avoid the truth" I wouldn't be here.
I apologize if my tone was harsh, Jeff. You asked me for a definition of Liberal, I answered and then you ignored the entire exchange. It certainly seemed like you were avoiding the truth to me. In fact, you were.
My comment was not irrelevant, Don. I was letting you know what Liberal (with a capitol L) means. It means a person who loves freedom Don. That's not so tough.
That's not so true, either, Jeff: https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Liberal and these days, in this Liberal stronghold of West Sonoma County, it doesn't mean that at all, from what I can see.
You didn't respond to that because you don't like the truth.
That's not true at all, Jeff. I love the truth, the whole truth, and the real truth, not some selfish opinions that someone CALLS "my truth".
You make up your own version of the truth Don and then try to force it on others. Doesn't work that way. Not with me.
Not true at all, Jeff. Show me where I've tried "to force it on others" here. Show me what you're referring to, Jeff, or is this just how it FEELS to you?
No, Don. That doesn't describe me but I am a liberal minded person. So these are the "rocks" you throw.
I've thrown no rocks, Jeff. You asked me a question and I answered it.
Mean, offensive verbiage.
I simply answered your question, Jeff. Again, if you have a problem with any of my "verbiage", please have the courage to copy and paste just exactly what comments you find "mean, offensive", won't you? Speaking in general is nothing but crap when one is accusing the other of some offense. Be specific, Jeff, so I know what you mean. Otherwise, it just sounds like you're having a bad week.
You come here claiming we're all "Liberals"
I claimed no such thing, Jeff. You asked me what "Liberal" means and I told you. I don't know who is on this board. When I used the term "y'all", I mean all of you Liberals, not that everyone here on Wacco is a Liberal. We both know that's not true, don't we? You're being dishonest here, Jeff.
... and then you define it in such a disgusting and dismissive way.
I told you the truth about what Liberalism has become here, Jeff, in my opinion. You asked me, remember? Now you're whining that I've "dismissed" you? You asked the question, sir, and just because you didn't like the answer doesn't rationalize your being offended. I'm not responsible for how you feel, Jeff. I simply answered your question.
And then you claim to be TheWholeTruth? Your presentation is just so rude Don. Don't you see that?
No, Jeff, I don't. It's just an ID, sir, an ID I chose because I love the whole truth, not the imaginary "your truth/my truth" that folks use to rationalize their selfishness and rebelliousness.
You claim to want intelligent discussion here
And I do. I haven't found a whole lot of it yet, but I've found some.
... but who wants to discuss anything with someone who sets himself so far above those he's trying to converse with.
I see. This is about your self-esteem now. Jeff, please, don't personalize everything. You started this conversation about Liberalism with me. Don't turn victim on me. Wow. This is classic, Jeff. This is about as classic as today's Liberalism gets. I wonder if you can see how ironic your angle is right now.
You claim the power and authority of your God
Show me where I claimed such a thing, Jeff, will you please? I claimed no such thing, Jeff.
and then you offend everyone else on the board.
Have you taken a poll today, Jeff? Can I see the results of that poll? What? You haven't take a poll?!? Then how can you know what "everyone else on the board" thinks, Jeff? What's that? You can't? Then why are you going down Stupid Street right now, Jeff? What's the problem, really?
What fun is that, Don?
What fun is dishonesty, Jeff? What fun is character assassination and misrepresenting someone else's comments?
You asked me question, Jeff, and I answered it honestly. So now you're making a feeble attempt to accuse me of offending "everyone else on the board". LOL Jeff, what grade school antics, sir! Did you think your agenda wouldn't be completely transparent, Jeff? Do you think I'll ever take you seriously again after pulling this 5th grade crap here? Think again.
Of course not. This is a one person battle.
No it's not, Jeff. This battle isn't between you and I. This is between the one you serve and the one I serve.
The rest of us are just watching you wrestle with your inner demons on this list.
The "rest of us" who, Jeff? You and Ms. Terry? What you're really watching is your own feeble attempt to try to bait me so you can pretend I've insulted everybody. Feeble people make feeble attempts, Jeff.
So you see it all clearly because you are spiritually developed and not deluded?
I see a lot of it clearly, Jeff, and yes, for that reason.
The rest of us are all Liberals...
The rest of "us" who, Jeff? Who are you referring to? I was referring to all Liberals, and, um, so you're trying to pretend that I was referring to everyone on WaccoBB? Is that it, Jeff? Feeble, mister. Totally feeble attempt to misrepresent me here today. And this is exactly what I'm talking about, Liberal Representative Jeff. That you are here trying to MISREPRESENT my comments says volumes about your unwillingness to engage in intelligent dialogue and says volumes about how deceptive and dishonest you are. Liberalism makes that okay in your mind, Jeff, and in my world dishonesty and character assassination isn't okay. That's the difference between your deluded Liberal mind and my NOT-Liberal mind.
and deluded and undeveloped? Is that right?
It describes you personally, sir, and you're proving it right now in this thread.
I was talking about Liberals in general, Jeff, not everyone on this board. LOL Nice try though. I see what you're trying to do. Whatever, Jeff. Feeble, sir. LIBERALS are deluded today, yes. That is what I said. LIBERALS can't see the truth because they're too busy trying to convince others that their OPINIONS are "their truth". They've/you've lost sight of the REAL truth, Jeff, because you put so much value on your unfounded opinions and have total disregard for the truth, as you've shown here by trying to infer that I've made statements which have anything to do with "everyone else on this board". I made no such statement, Dishonest Jeff.
Because I'm not at spiritual war Don.
You're already a casualty of the war, Jeff. Trying to assassinate my character like you're doing in this post, misrepresenting me proves you've already become a casualty in the war, sir.
I don't want to play that game with you or anyone. I'd like to avoid war, if I can.
I hear you. And the Devil doesn't exist, right?
And I think the spiritual is the physical, so how about that? Deluded, eh? I think not. That's just the truth. You can choose to realize it or not.
In your opinion, Jeff. Unless you have some evidence to support your statement, it's not the truth. It's just another opinion that you like to call "my truth", propping up a big fat nothing and pretending it's something.
I think those who have been convinced they need to be in a state of constant war are deluded.
I'm not in a war, Jeff, nor did I say anything of the sort. I said quite the contrary. I said the war is not about flesh and blood. Go back and read my post again, because you're miles away from what I said.
What a shame! How awful that must be! To not be able to rest because it's necessary to be constantly on the alert. What a sad way to live.
How awful it must be to be unable to simply engage in intelligent dialogue without feeling like you have to assassinate someone's character by misrepresenting what they've said. That is what is sad, Jeff.
Well, we are the only beings that can create more humanity.
LOL Wrong, Jeff. No person created humanity. You can't. I can't. Ms. Terry can't. We can only REPRODUCE what the Creator has made. Wake up, sir. Man did not create Man. Man can only reproduce what our Creator has made.
That's the Truth. We are the Creators.
LOL That's a lie from Hell, Jeff. It's a big deluded falsehood that your Ego loves to believe is true. You haven't the intelligence to create a living being of any kind, Jeff. All you can do is reproduce what God has made.
Take some responsibility, Don.
Have some humility, Jeff.
That's one of the problems in this world that we can agree on: not enough people acting responsibly and not enough taking responsibility for their actions.
And then there are those who take credit for things they did not and cannot do.
I don't think there is a divide among liberals or conservatives. I think everyone needs to be responsible.
-Jeff
I disagree completely. There is a huge divide between Liberals and Conservatives here in America. For example, I would never try to misrepresent you here like you've attempted to misrepresent me, insinuating that I was referring to everyone on Wacco when I was really referring to all Liberals, Jeff. What you've done is dishonest. I abhor such conduct. There is evidence of some of the "divide" between us.
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 05:55 PM
I'll keep it simple for you .
Is Islam the truth or a lie?
is Buddhism the truth or a lie?
is Hinduism the truth or a lie?
is any religion other than Christianity the truth or a lie?
Please note that you can only pick one answer
That would be a matter of opinion, Ma'am.
MsTerry
06-28-2008, 07:29 PM
That would be a matter of opinion, Ma'am. L:xtrmlaugh: M :xtrmlaugh:F:xtrmlaugh: A :xtrmlaugh:O
No Sir,
Either your God is the truth or theirs.
Remember there is only one truth and you KNOW what it is!
Which one is it going to be, Don?
Who is delusional and who is telling The Truth?
I want the hear and know
thewholetruth
06-28-2008, 11:02 PM
L:xtrmlaugh: M :xtrmlaugh:F:xtrmlaugh: A :xtrmlaugh:O
No Sir,
Either your God is the truth or theirs.
Remember there is only one truth and you KNOW what it is!
Which one is it going to be, Don?
Who is delusional and who is telling The Truth?
I want the hear and know
Ms. Terry, I'm going to conclude that you didn't attend public school here in America, nor private school, either, since you asked:
Is Islam the truth or a lie?
Islam is a religion.
is Buddhism the truth or a lie?
Buddhism is a religion.
is Hinduism the truth or a lie?
Hinduism is a religion.
is any religion other than Christianity the truth or a lie?
Any religion other than Christianity is a religion, Ma'am.
Please note that you can only pick one answer
Please note that I gave only one answer, Ms. Terry.
MsTerry
06-29-2008, 08:09 AM
Please note that I gave only one answer, Ms. Terry.
No Sir Dodge and Hide, you didn't answer the question at all.
Now the Almighty Don thinks he is really clever, but I have to conclude YOU didn't go to ANY school at all.
Let me try a yes or no question, Don that means the answer can only be YES or NO.
Any other answer means you don't want to tell the truth, which means you aren't truthful.
Don, is Christianity teaching the truth about God?
Is there any religion other than Christianity that is teaching the truth about God?
Is it Buddhism?
Hinduism?
Islam?
Lenny
06-29-2008, 10:16 AM
No Sir Dodge and Hide, you didn't answer the question at all.
Now the Almighty Don thinks he is really clever, but I have to conclude YOU didn't go to ANY school at all.
Let me try a yes or no question, Don that means the answer can only be YES or NO.
Any other answer means you don't want to tell the truth, which means you aren't truthful.
Don, is Christianity teaching the truth about God?
Is there any religion other than Christianity that is teaching the truth about God?
Is it Buddhism?
Hinduism?
Islam?
Can I guess that answers from a bumper sticker are the only ones allowed?
I don't think parts of Methodists counts, but some of Mahayana do?
Can the answer have more than 3 syllables, but less than four letters?
The BOTH of you, knock it off!
Lenny
06-29-2008, 10:27 AM
OK, I get it, we are mixing different forms of gov.
I am thinking local and county wide.
Katrina was a lesson for GW, He did screw up, he did not act when it was needed to overstep all the little agencies that usually help.
In the end it was the little agencies that made the diference
And here I thought it was Wall Mart that made the difference! They were there LONG before (24 hours) G.W. and friends found the dyke AND his finger. It was WalMart, Salvation Army, Home Depot and a whole host of charities and businesses that were ready to do it, certainly not the great state of Louisiana which turned out to be as crooked as a pan of guts.
That and folks there, helping other folks. It wasn't just G.W. & fiends, it's all of gov't, and people are the ONLY ones that really "do it", for my money.
Like that other thread said (the gun one) "...when seconds count and the police are only minutes away..." I like that one!
MsTerry
06-29-2008, 12:35 PM
Lenny, you don't get it
Don knows what The Truth is.
How many people have you come across in your life that know The Truth?
If there are people that are following the WRONG religion, they can't be saved.
All we have to do is follow in Don's footsteps, tell Jeff to lay off his crackpipe, and we too will be saved!
Isn't that worth :2cents: ?
Can I guess that answers from a bumper sticker are the only ones allowed?
I don't think parts of Methodists counts, but some of Mahayana do?
Can the answer have more than 3 syllables, but less than four letters?
The BOTH of you, knock it off!
Lenny
06-29-2008, 04:42 PM
How many people have you come across in your life that know The Truth?
All of them.
Isn't that worth :2cents: ?
Sometimes, Alice, ohhhhh, sometimes ZIP, POW, to the MOON, Alice.
To THE MOON.
thewholetruth
06-29-2008, 05:24 PM
No Sir Dodge and Hide, you didn't answer the question at all.
I answered every question you asked, Ma'am.
Now the Almighty Don...
*bLuSh* I'm just a man, Ms. Terry. :wink:
... thinks he is really clever, but I have to conclude YOU didn't go to ANY school at all.
Parroting is never attractive, Ms. Terry. Please.
Let me try a yes or no question, Don that means the answer can only be YES or NO.
Any other answer means you don't want to tell the truth, which means you aren't truthful.
Don, is Christianity teaching the truth about God?
Yes.
Is there any religion other than Christianity that is teaching the truth about God?
Not that I'm aware of. Of course, there isn't another religion in which someone claims to BE God, is there? No. The other religions are all about Man, or about what God does.
Is it Buddhism?
Buddhism is about God's power, and His creation.
Hinduism?
Cattle worship. I don't get it.
Islam?
Islam is about a man, a man who declared war on anyone who doesn't believe as he does.
Happy now, Ms. Terry?
thewholetruth
06-29-2008, 05:27 PM
Lenny, you don't get it
Don knows what The Truth is.
How many people have you come across in your life that know The Truth?
If there are people that are following the WRONG religion, they can't be saved.
All we have to do is follow in Don's footsteps, tell Jeff to lay off his crackpipe, and we too will be saved!
Isn't that worth :2cents: ?
Where did you get that idea, Ms. Terry? Is this what your life is about, making it up as you go along? Ignoring fact and truth in favor of whatever way the wind blows you the right way on a given day? When you stand for nothing, Ma'am, you fall for everything.
thewholetruth
06-29-2008, 07:38 PM
All of them.
Sometimes, Alice, ohhhhh, sometimes ZIP, POW, to the MOON, Alice.
To THE MOON.
I always thought it was "Bang! Zoom! to the MOON, Alice. To the MOON. :waccosmile:
Lenny
06-30-2008, 05:47 AM
I always thought it was "Bang! Zoom! to the MOON, Alice. To the MOON. :waccosmile:
I think you are correct. Again! Was there even a word "zip" back in 1955?
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 06:09 AM
I have an 8 year old here in my house, and she believes she knows the difference between right and wrong.
But as soon as she is confronting with what she said and what she is saying, her reasoning falls apart. Don, you remind me of that.
Don, you've stated over and over again that you know The Truth.
Did you want to take that back now?
Where did you get that idea, Ms. Terry?
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 06:15 AM
Don, your answers remind me of an 8 year old again, except that mine is more educated than the ignorance you come up with.
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> MsTerry wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=62889#post62889)
Is there any religion other than Christianity that is teaching the truth about God?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Not that I'm aware of. Of course, there isn't another religion in which someone claims to BE God, is there? No. The other religions are all about Man, or about what God does.
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> <!-- using waccobburl --> Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> MsTerry wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=62889#post62889)
Is it Buddhism?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Buddhism is about God's power, and His creation.
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> <!-- using waccobburl --> Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> MsTerry wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=62889#post62889)
Hinduism?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Cattle worship. I don't get it.
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> <!-- using waccobburl --> Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> MsTerry wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=62889#post62889)
Islam?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Islam is about a man, a man who declared war on anyone who doesn't believe as he does.
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 06:19 AM
When you stand for nothing, Ma'am, you fall for everything.
I think you summed up your life very succinctly for us, Sir.
Thanks:thumbsup:
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 07:39 AM
I have an 8 year old here in my house, and she believes she knows the difference between right and wrong.
But as soon as she is confronting with what she said and what she is saying, her reasoning falls apart. Don, you remind me of that.
Don, you've stated over and over again that you know The Truth.
Did you want to take that back now?
Focus up, Ms. Terry. Focus up here. You're all over the place like someone who falls for anything.
REFRESHER COURSE FOR MS. TERRY:
You said:
Lenny, you don't get it
Don knows what The Truth is.
How many people have you come across in your life that know The Truth?
If there are people that are following the WRONG religion, they can't be saved.
All we have to do is follow in Don's footsteps, tell Jeff to lay off his crackpipe, and we too will be saved!
Isn't that worth :2cents: ?
To which I replied: Where did you get that idea, Ms. Terry?
Then you launched into the story about your 8 year old and asked me if I wanted to "take that back now".
Take what back now, Ma'am? I asked where you got the idea that:
All we have to do is follow in Don's footsteps, tell Jeff to lay off his crackpipe, and we too will be saved!
Where did you get that idea, Ms. Terry, that all you have to do is follow in MY footsteps? I didn't say that. Did you just make it up in your head like you do with most everything else you post at me, then pretend it's "your truth"?
The truth is that intelligent spiritual minded individuals know the difference between right and wrong, and can see the difference between truth and opinion. Those deluded by the Enemy who are Self focused cannot.
I see the truth, Ms. Terry. I didn't always. It's an incredible thing, surrendering to what Reality actually is, rather than pretending that I get to make it up as I go along. Acknowledging that God is who He is, that He created all of us, that He has plans for us, and then taking an interest in what HIS plans are for us - that is an incredible journey, in which one rarely gets tangled up in "my truth" or "your truth" but stays interested in and focused on - like it or not - THE truth.
I understand that you don't understand. It's been explained here many times already, so I'm not going to repeat it. But if you abandon yourself to God, and seek Him with all your heart, and stop thinking YOU get to create God, then you (generally speaking) get to join us in the Real World and find out what life is REALLY about. Oh, and His plans for you (just as for me)? To PROSPER you and not to harm you, Ms. Terry. It's amazing what He does when we humble ourselves and let Him. We have a choice, to let Him lead us or to be our own Shot Callers. It's amazing when we let Him show us the plans He has for us. :thumbsup:
Plus, we get eyes to see the truth. That's a real bonus! :wink: I guess you'll have to take my word for it for now.
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 07:43 AM
Don, your answers remind me of an 8 year old again, except that mine is more educated than the ignorance you come up with.
Good one, Ms. Terry.
Oh, wait. It sounds a little like an 8 year old wrote it. :Colormon:
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 07:43 AM
I think you summed up your life very succinctly for us, Sir.
Thanks:thumbsup:
My old life, yes. :knockonwood:
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 07:44 AM
I think you are correct. Again! Was there even a word "zip" back in 1955?
LOL I'm not sure. I think maybe, having something to do with suits!
Oh wait, that was ZOOT, wasn't it? LOL
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 07:57 AM
Where did you get that idea, Ms. Terry, that all you have to do is follow in MY footsteps? .
Where did I get it?
Just read the following, right out of the horses mouth, but than again you don't really read what you write
I see the truth, Ms. Terry. I didn't always. It's an incredible thing, surrendering to what Reality actually is, rather than pretending that I get to make it up as I go along. Acknowledging that God is who He is, that He created all of us, that He has plans for us, and then taking an interest in what HIS plans are for us - that is an incredible journey, in which one rarely gets tangled up in "my truth" or "your truth" but stays interested in and focused on - like it or not - THE truth.
I understand that you don't understand. It's been explained here many times already, so I'm not going to repeat it. But if you abandon yourself to God, and seek Him with all your heart, and stop thinking YOU get to create God, then you (generally speaking) get to join us in the Real World and find out what life is REALLY about. Oh, and His plans for you (just as for me)? To PROSPER you and not to harm you, Ms. Terry. It's amazing what He does when we humble ourselves and let Him. We have a choice, to let Him lead us or to be our own Shot Callers. It's amazing when we let Him show us the plans He has for us. :thumbsup:
Plus, we get eyes to see the truth. That's a real bonus! :wink: I guess you'll have to take my word for it for now
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 08:06 AM
Where did I get it?
Just read the following, right out of the horses mouth, but than again you don't really read what you write
Firstly, that's impossible, Ma'am. I posted that AFTER you encouraged the others to follow in MY footsteps.
Secondly, it's not MY footsteps you need to follow in order to be set free.
Oh, it's the same PATH I follow, but if you follow MY footsteps you'll likely be back and forth, zig-zagging down the path like I tend to do from time to time. If I implied that you can find freedom and cure your blindness by following MY footsteps, I apologize for that, Ma'am. Follow the One that I follow. That is the path to enlightenment and freedom. :thumbsup:
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 08:06 AM
It's amazing what He does when we humble ourselves and let Him.
Don, when I am as humble as you, do I get to put people down and twist people's thoughts, just like you?
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 08:09 AM
Those deluded by the Enemy .
The Enemy, Don???
Who is The Enemy, pastor?
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 08:15 AM
if you follow MY footsteps you'll likely be back and forth, zig-zagging down the path like I tend to do from time to time.
We have noticed that, Don,
Very much so:thumbsup:
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 08:17 AM
The Enemy, Don???
Who is The Enemy, pastor?
You said you go to church, didn't you, Ms. Terry? Were you lying about that? Hmmmmmm?
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 08:19 AM
You are zigzagging
not answering the question!
Who is the Enemy, pastor?
You said you go to church, didn't you, Ms. Terry? Were you lying about that? Hmmmmmm?
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 08:20 AM
We have noticed that, Don,
Very much so:thumbsup:
Ahhh, but with the benefit of seeing THE truth, Ma'am! :thumbsup:
thewholetruth
06-30-2008, 08:21 AM
You are zigzagging
not answering the question!
Who is the Enemy, pastor?
Are you familiar with Bob Dylan's work, Ma'am?
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 08:48 AM
Unless you think Bob Dylan is The Enemy, you are still not answering the Question
WHO IS THE ENEMY?
Are you familiar with Bob Dylan's work, Ma'am?
Lorrie
06-30-2008, 01:20 PM
You People Are Clogging Up My In Box With Junk!!!!
What Does The "truth" "religious Affiliations" And "belief Systems" Have To Do With Al Gore And Global Warming Agenda?
Start A New Topic About Religion And Stop Arguing Like Little Children Rediculous Round And Round Nonsense!!!
Please!!!
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 03:09 PM
Don't you want to find out who The Enemy is?
You People Are Clogging Up My In Box With Junk!!!!
What Does The "truth" "religious Affiliations" And "belief Systems" Have To Do With Al Gore And Global Warming Agenda?
Start A New Topic About Religion And Stop Arguing Like Little Children Rediculous Round And Round Nonsense!!!
Please!!!
Lorrie
06-30-2008, 04:33 PM
Don't you want to find out who The Enemy is?
IMO the enemy is like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder!
And you already know the answer!
Out!
MsTerry
06-30-2008, 07:27 PM
But the pastor might have an answer that will warm our hearts, like fire and brimstone, or maybe even eternal purgatory! Yum!
one more chance?
IMO the enemy is like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder!
And you already know the answer!
Out!
OrchardDweller
07-05-2008, 07:01 AM
North America's first carbon tax rolls out under fire
North America's first carbon tax rolls out under fire
Too bad this is in Canada instead of the US. I thought perhaps the power of our government was being put to some good for once. Oh well.
I still think a $100 a barrel import duty on foreign oil is something we should implement immediately. We should also end all "incentives" to oil and coal companies. And then on top of these levy a small but annually increasing carbon tax on all fossil fuels. Monies collected used for implementation of alternative electricity generation fed into the grid and used to cut the cost of electricity to consumers. Eventually the electricity cost reductions would offset the costs of carbon taxes for a net benefit to consumers.
-Jeff for President in 2012
Lenny
07-06-2008, 06:10 AM
Too bad this is in Canada instead of the US. I thought perhaps the power of our government was being put to some good for once. Oh well.
I still think a $100 a barrel import duty on foreign oil is something we should implement immediately. We should also end all "incentives" to oil and coal companies. And then on top of these levy a small but annually increasing carbon tax on all fossil fuels. Monies collected used for implementation of alternative electricity generation fed into the grid and used to cut the cost of electricity to consumers. Eventually the electricity cost reductions would offset the costs of carbon taxes for a net benefit to consumers. -Jeff for President in 2012
Well, I can't vote for that. More $ out of MY pocket. t
And I'm glad to see there's no political agenda here either.
What little I know of economics, and that would fill a pin head, if we charged The Big Guys with any tax, would they not pass that down to me? Exxon, Mobile, BP, Shell, etc, are not going to take that tax out of their money, no?
So how does that work?
thewholetruth
07-06-2008, 08:37 AM
Two things, Jeff: 1) Anyone who thinks adding ANY tax for ANY reason right now is lost, IMO. We are taxed to DEATH already. It is our government's MISMANAGEMENT of the taxes they collect already that is the problem here, not a lack of tax funding for worthy causes (although whether or not a "carbon" tax is "worthy" is debatable).
2) It would take decades for aNyOnE who publicly advocates illegal drug & narcotic use today, like you do, to even be considered a viable candidate by the American public. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. Quite an interesting notion, however, coming from you, all things considered. *polite smile* :2cents:
Too bad this is in Canada instead of the US. I thought perhaps the power of our government was being put to some good for once. Oh well.
I still think a $100 a barrel import duty on foreign oil is something we should implement immediately. We should also end all "incentives" to oil and coal companies. And then on top of these levy a small but annually increasing carbon tax on all fossil fuels. Monies collected used for implementation of alternative electricity generation fed into the grid and used to cut the cost of electricity to consumers. Eventually the electricity cost reductions would offset the costs of carbon taxes for a net benefit to consumers.
-Jeff for President in 2012
thewholetruth
07-06-2008, 08:40 AM
Unless you think Bob Dylan is The Enemy, you are still not answering the Question
WHO IS THE ENEMY?
Satan, Ms. Terry. You know, the one who's behind The Greatest Lie Ever Told ("I don't exist")?
Remember now, Ms. Terry? You've gotta serve SOMEbody, Ma'am. It might be the Devil, and it might be the Lord, and if it's not the Lord, Ma'am, well...
MsTerry
07-06-2008, 09:14 AM
So why did God create Satan, Don?
Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
Satan, Ms. Terry. You know, the one who's behind The Greatest Lie Ever Told ("I don't exist")?
Remember now, Ms. Terry? You've gotta serve SOMEbody, Ma'am. It might be the Devil, and it might be the Lord, and if it's not the Lord, Ma'am, well...
thewholetruth
07-06-2008, 01:43 PM
So why did God create Satan, Don?
Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
You said you go to church, Ms. Terry. Don't people who go to church already know the answer to that question? Why doesn't your question line up with your previous claim?
MsTerry
07-06-2008, 01:58 PM
Don, my church doesn't preach hell and damnation, it teaches inspiration, admiration and a quest for understanding.
In fact, part of the congregation is atheist, some are agnostics but all are devoted to acceptance.
Don, please share YOUR truth with us.
So why did God create Satan, Don?
Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
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You said you go to church, Ms. Terry. Don't people who go to church already know the answer to that question? Why doesn't your question line up with your previous claim?
thewholetruth
07-06-2008, 08:28 PM
Well, gosh, Ms. Terry. I'm not sure who "she" is, that you're referring to. And there is no such thing as "YOUR truth". Are you asking about my opinion? Or did you mean to ask about "THE truth"? Anyway, to answer your question:
"You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty (see What Does Satan Look Like? (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/satnlook.htm)). You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the Holy Mount of God; you walked among the firey stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you." (Ezekiel 28:12-15)
https://www.keyway.ca/jpg/snake.jpg The horrendously wicked spirit-being that we now know as Satan has not always existed. He was created by God, not as the evil loser (see The Lame Duck (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/lameduck.htm)) that he is now, but as the above Scripture describes, created perfect in wisdom and beauty. Satan was, at a time long ago, perfectly righteous and obedient before God. Put another way, at one time, Satan could have been one of the best friends that any Christian could have!
But Satan went bad, very bad -
"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! [or Lucifer, which means light-bringer] You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like The Most High." (Isaiah 14:12-14)
Satan didn't just refuse to obey God any longer, which was bad enough; he actually tried to overthrow God! The attempted coup failed of course, as described by Jesus Christ (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/christ.htm): "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18) (see A Picture O Heaven (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/picheavn.htm)). This would have occurred long before His birth in Bethlehem (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/bethfact.htm) as a human (see Rock Of Ages (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/rockages.htm)). Satan was still on earth during the time of Jesus' ministry (see Go Ahead, Jump! (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/gojump.htm) and That Old Serpent (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/serpent.htm)), and was directly involved in His betrayal by Judas Iscariot (see Why Did He Do It? (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/whydoit.htm)).
God created the perfectly-righteous Lucifer, by God's choice. Lucifer created the absolutely-wicked Satan, by Lucifer's choice. Lucifer, and all of the millions of angels had the power of choice - to obey, or to rebel. Most chose to obey God, while some followed Satan's rebellion and have become hopelessly corrupt (see Could Satan Repent? (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/satnrept.htm)).
Click any of those links to see where I got that explanation, Ms. Terry. I used a website called "Google", a funny name, I know, but it will find just about any information you'd ever want to know! For future reference, anyway. :thumbsup:
Don, my church doesn't preach hell and damnation, it teaches inspiration, admiration and a quest for understanding.
In fact, part of the congregation is atheist, some are agnostics but all are devoted to acceptance.
Don, please share YOUR truth with us.
So why did God create Satan, Don?
Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
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thewholetruth
07-06-2008, 08:31 PM
Hey, Ms. Terry, you probably didn't realize that we're already making Lorrie mad, posting this subject matter here! She must have a very tiny inbox because she said we're filling it up with our messages! Maybe we should move this discussion somewhere else, like, ohhhh, I don't know...How about one of the Barrack Hussein Obama threads? :wink: :heart: :thumbsup:
Don, my church doesn't preach hell and damnation, it teaches inspiration, admiration and a quest for understanding.
In fact, part of the congregation is atheist, some are agnostics but all are devoted to acceptance.
Don, please share YOUR truth with us.
So why did God create Satan, Don?
Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
<!-- END PRINT HEAD --> <!-- BEGIN HEADLINE -->
Lenny
07-07-2008, 09:10 AM
So why did God create Satan, Don?
Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
So I am going to hell because I don't cherish moths, poison oak, sand in my shoes, and a couple of other knick-knacks? Hell ain't worth more than :2cents:
Lenny
07-07-2008, 09:18 AM
Don, my church doesn't preach hell and damnation, it teaches inspiration, admiration and a quest for understanding.
In fact, part of the congregation is atheist, some are agnostics but all are devoted to acceptance. Don, please share YOUR truth with us. So why did God create Satan, Don? Aren't we to love and cherish all of her creations?
<!-- BEGIN HEADLINE -->
Is there a contradiction in terms here? Atheists in church? Never!
Agnostics? Maybe they wander in occasionally?
And what does "all devoted to acceptance" mean? No, never mind. I've got to live the rest of my day, life, and the grave, to even consider the beginning of THAT question/answer!
Oh, and WHY EVIL? has been the most difficult to answer, especially in classic Christianity. I like their answer, but it still begs the questions: Satan chose due to free will.
Braggi
07-07-2008, 09:32 AM
... You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the Holy Mount of God ...
So, Pastor, are God and Satan flesh and blood beings that wear jewels and gold?
-Jeff
thewholetruth
07-07-2008, 07:59 PM
So, Pastor, are God and Satan flesh and blood beings that wear jewels and gold?
-Jeff
You'll have to read the book yourself, Jeff. It's all in there. :thumbsup:
thewholetruth
07-07-2008, 08:01 PM
So, Pastor, are God and Satan flesh and blood beings that wear jewels and gold?
-Jeff
Say, Jeff, why do you call me Pastor? Am I your pastor?
MsTerry
07-07-2008, 09:07 PM
Well, gosh, Ms. Terry. I'm not sure who "she" is, that you're referring to
Jeeeeeeeewizzzzzzzzzzzz, Don. Don't you refer to God as "She" ?
And there is no such thing as "YOUR truth". Are you asking about my opinion? Or did you mean to ask about "THE truth"? Jeeeeeeeewizzzzzzzzzzzz, again, Don.
I took your advice, Don, and googled God.
Look what I found, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God, turns out there IS more than One Truth!
Thanks for the enlightenment :thumbsup:
(see What Does Satan Look Like? (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/satnlook.htm)).
Gosh darn, Don, I followed your advice again,
Now I always thought that was a picture of Jesus.
Thanks for the warning, no more Jesus Christians in my house!
https://www.keyway.ca/jpg/snake.jpg I am a little confused about this picture, are you trying to suggest that DrLove is in on this too?
.Anyway, to answer your question: , Ms. Terry. I used a website called "Google", a funny name, I know, but it will find just about any information you'd ever want to know! For future reference, anyway. :thumbsup:
This is a great gift, Don.
Especially since I thought you were in direct communication with God, but you are confessing it is Google.
thewholetruth
07-08-2008, 05:58 AM
*Polite smile* to the INTOLERANT LIBERAL Ms. Terry who professes to be tolerant as she mocks me for my faith.
I'm tellin' ya, Ms. Terry, today's Liberalism is a bastardized version based on intolerance and homosexual codependence that is nothing like the Liberalism of yesteryear. It shouldn't even be called Liberalism, in fact, it's so far away from where it started. You are clearcut evidence of that.
Mocking someone because of their faith, Ms. Terry? Tsk-tsk-tsk.
Jeeeeeeeewizzzzzzzzzzzz, Don. Don't you refer to God as "She" ?
Jeeeeeeeewizzzzzzzzzzzz, again, Don.
I took your advice, Don, and googled God.
Look what I found, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God, turns out there IS more than One Truth!
Thanks for the enlightenment :thumbsup:
Gosh darn, Don, I followed your advice again,
Now I always thought that was a picture of Jesus.
Thanks for the warning, no more Jesus Christians in my house!
I am a little confused about this picture, are you trying to suggest that DrLove is in on this too?
This is a great gift, Don.
Especially since I thought you were in direct communication with God, but you are confessing it is Google.
MsTerry
07-08-2008, 07:40 AM
*Polite smile* to the INTOLERANT LIBERAL Ms. Terry who professes to be tolerant as she mocks me for my faith.
I'm tellin' ya, Ms. Terry, today's Liberalism is a bastardized version based on intolerance and homosexual codependence that is nothing like the Liberalism of yesteryear. It shouldn't even be called Liberalism, in fact, it's so far away from where it started. You are clearcut evidence of that.
Mocking someone because of their faith, Ms. Terry? Tsk-tsk-tsk.
Don, can you explain yourself?
How am I intolerant? Words have meaning you know!
You enjoy offending people, but also are offended yourself so quickly and then it is back to calling people Liberals and Christian-haters.
Have I told you I am a Liberal? Or do you just call anyone who doesn't agree with you a liberal?
Should I start calling you names too? Which one do you prefer?
I am still puzzled on why you sent a picture of what looks like Jesus under the heading What Does Satan Look Like? (https://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/satnlook.htm)
Maybe it is you who is mocking Christianity?