Jesus Prevents Illegal Immigration

[MsTerry]

And Jesus did not believe in or follow the Ten Commandments.

Is Jesus the one who took out" love thy neighbour like thou self"?
But I didn't know he was gay, does the Pope know about this?

[Zeno Swijtink]

This is on "Jesus a communist?" Part of this is what Jesus said on Private Property.

Looking around on the www what people have written on this I found somewhere:

"Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous? Thus the last shall be first, and the first last." Matthew 20:15-16

Exegesis: "In the parable of the vineyard laborers in Matthew 20, the land owner hires laborers for the same wage, but pays that same wage to those who worked less, and pays them first. The above final word by the land owner is a divine rebuke to today's ideas of discrimination in hiring, minimum wage laws, private property rights, union labor rhetoric, equal pay for equal work, as well as a commentary about honoring a previously agreed to contract."

I wonder whether this is the generally accepted reading of this text among Christians? Is there Scripture against minimum wage laws?

On the other hand, some early Christian seem to have abolished private property: "And all that believed were together, and had all things common" (Acts 2:44-45).

[Reportanddeport]

Of course my post about Jesus being a commie was nonsense and sarcasm. While YOUR post is pure nonsense WITHOUT the sarcasm.
If you can clarify what you tried to say, then please do so. But when your intention is to make cool-sounding gobbledygook, then no amount of clarification is possible.




This is on "Jesus a communist?" Part of this is what Jesus said on Private Property.

Looking around on the www what people have written on this I found somewhere:

"Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous? Thus the last shall be first, and the first last." Matthew 20:15-16

Exegesis: "In the parable of the vineyard laborers in Matthew 20, the land owner hires laborers for the same wage, but pays that same wage to those who worked less, and pays them first. The above final word by the land owner is a divine rebuke to today's ideas of discrimination in hiring, minimum wage laws, private property rights, union labor rhetoric, equal pay for equal work, as well as a commentary about honoring a previously agreed to contract."

I wonder whether this is the generally accepted reading of this text among Christians? Is there Scripture against minimum wage laws?

On the other hand, some early Christian seem to have abolished private property: "And all that believed were together, and had all things common" (Acts 2:44-45).

[Zeno Swijtink]

Jeff,

Are you saying that you prefer sarcasm over cool-sounding claptrap?

Zeno


Of course my post about Jesus being a commie was nonsense and sarcasm. While YOUR post is pure nonsense WITHOUT the sarcasm.
If you can clarify what you tried to say, then please do so. But when your intention is to make cool-sounding gobbledygook, then no amount of clarification is possible.

[Braggi]

...
OF COURSE you enjoy the inexpsensive wine, you and the other "conscious" Progressives (gag) drink at the expense of illegal aliens. And WHO AM I to interfere with YOUR GOOD TIMES? YOU'RE not doing the labor, you're only PROFITING from it. NOR are you being VICTIMIZED by the scum open borders brings, SOMEONE ELSE is being victimized. Thinking about how your actions effect others.... well.... that's just too DIFFICULT. You shouldn't have to be bothered by someone else's suffering....

Why so nasty Jeff? What's the deal with you? In my post I was copping to the ways I support the current situation and how I would like it to be better. I was accepting blame. Why beat me up for that?

Read through my posts in this thread. You won't find a single one where I claim to be supportive of illegal immigration. However, I have little interest in working with you to solve the problems because you're just so nasty and mean, and you're so narrow minded the only response you see to the problems are military responses which are always expensive, messy and almost never achieve the desired goals.

There are smarter ways to solve problems than military ways.

-Jeff

[MsTerry]

Zeno, backs up his claims with quotes from the bible.
Jeff, how come you never back up your poppycock with verifiable data?
You say there are 12 million illegal aliens in this country, yet you only can only produce one story about 1 guy to condemn them all.
That doesn't even show up statistically.



Of course my post about Jesus being a commie was nonsense and sarcasm. While YOUR post is pure nonsense WITHOUT the sarcasm.
If you can clarify what you tried to say, then please do so. But when your intention is to make cool-sounding gobbledygook, then no amount of clarification is possible.

[Valley Oak]

Despite the fact that I always see the following:

This message is hidden because Reportanddeport is on your ignore list.
Maybe I'll switch ideological sides and assimilate R&D's view's on the issues. I'll start driving around in a hearse with a Nazi oven installed in it. I'll simply kidnap all the illegal aliens I see walking around and stick them in the mobile oven and take care of the problem that R&D is up in arms about.

How about it?

Edward

[thewholetruth]

While I totally prefer sarcasm over cool-sounding claptrap, I totally love how cool "cool-sounding claptrap" sounds!

Don


Jeff,

Are you saying that you prefer sarcasm over cool-sounding claptrap?

Zeno

[Reportanddeport]

Not necessarily. What I'd really like is for people to try to make an actual point if they have a disagreement, rather then spewing cool-sounding nonsense.


Jeff,

Are you saying that you prefer sarcasm over cool-sounding claptrap?

Zeno

[Zeno Swijtink]

Not necessarily. What I'd really like is for people to try to make an actual point if they have a disagreement, rather then spewing cool-sounding nonsense.

My posting was not in response to anything you may have written. I have no disagreement, or agreement, with you. In fact, I don't read what you write, and when I do I do not understand anything of it, and the the extent I do it doesn't feel like anything I want to understand. You seem to me like a visitor from jail, from a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

[Reportanddeport]

I always want to be appropriate in my posts. I've yet to feel guilty about anything I've said. It's up to you to take offense and it's up to me to apologize if I think later on that I've been unfair.

You talked about enjoying the wine produced by illegal alien labor without any mention of the fact that it was produced by illegal alien labor. Nor while you enjoy those fruits do you think of those who died and were raped and maimed by the perpetuation of your lawless system. If I feel a rape or maiminmg victim's pain more than YOUR pain, then that's just the way it's gonna be. I did not see you accepting blame for anything.

"Nasty and mean"? No, I deliver poison on target and only when called for.

You are extremely inaccurate. I don't need a miltary response to all of America's problems and I never called for that. In life, it is best to have a BALANCED and APPROPRIATE response in all situations.

Sometimes, military actions solve problems. And no amount of lies and/or disinformation from deranged, confused, hateful, anti-American, Fifth Columnists will ever change that.

War and the military are facts of life that no amount of dope smoking or commie propaganda will ever overcome. Maybe you need to grow up or maybe just stop pretending or lying about it.


Why so nasty Jeff? What's the deal with you? In my post I was copping to the ways I support the current situation and how I would like it to be better. I was accepting blame. Why beat me up for that?

Read through my posts in this thread. You won't find a single one where I claim to be supportive of illegal immigration. However, I have little interest in working with you to solve the problems because you're just so nasty and mean, and you're so narrow minded the only response you see to the problems are military responses which are always expensive, messy and almost never achieve the desired goals.

There are smarter ways to solve problems than military ways.

-Jeff

[Reportanddeport]

My "poppycock" is the official, Bush Inc. figure. I don't remember the exact perpetrator, but 12 Million is a commonly spewed government figure for the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. But I think it's probably more like 30 million. I got a comment on my blog that said that it's 40 Million, but no one knows for sure. And yes, I'd LOVE to know the actual number.

It's pretty pathetic that we have so many people in our country and no one in Bush Inc. knows who they are, where they're from, what disease they have, what crimes they've committed, what kids they're violating, etc, etc, etc.

You want more stories? Think I'm not reliable enough? Then do your own research. That's what I did. You can start with my blog and click on the links. You may not like what you see, but none of us will ever see the entire world or know everything with our own eyes. So it comes down to WHAT MAKES SENSE, what people are saying and how it compares with what you actually see with your own eyes.

I'll give you LOTS more stories if you want. Just be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.



Zeno, backs up his claims with quotes from the bible.
Jeff, how come you never back up your poppycock with verifiable data?
You say there are 12 million illegal aliens in this country, yet you only can only produce one story about 1 guy to condemn them all.
That doesn't even show up statistically.

[Reportanddeport]

Well, you responded to my post, so obviously you read it. "Visitor from jail"? "Post-apocalyptic wasteland"? I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds kinda cool. You SHOULD read what I write. Learn how to see things straight.


My posting was not in response to anything you may have written. I have no disagreement, or agreement, with you. In fact, I don't read what you write, and when I do I do not understand anything of it, and the the extent I do it doesn't feel like anything I want to understand. You seem to me like a visitor from jail, from a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

[MsTerry]

My "poppycock" is the official, Bush Inc. figure. I don't remember the exact perpetrator, but 12 Million is a commonly spewed government figure for the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. But I think it's probably more like 30 million. I got a comment on my blog that said that it's 40 Million, but no one knows for sure. And yes, I'd LOVE to know the actual number..
Thanks for admitting that your numbers aren't accurate!
Let's use your 30 million for now. What do you think will happen to the economy and this country if we were to evacuate all of them at once? Or maybe half of them, 15M? We would lose all that revenue.
Do you really think there are 30 million people waiting for their jobs?


It's pretty pathetic that we have so many people in our country and no one in Bush Inc. knows who they are, where they're from, what disease they have, what crimes they've committed, what kids they're violating, etc, etc, etc.
I agree your statements are pretty pathetic, since the majority of our prisons are over-filled with people born in the US.
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/misc/navbits_finallink.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35133&highlight=%2Aus%2A+%2Aprisoners%2A) <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link --> U.S. leads world in producing prisoners


You want more stories? Think I'm not reliable enough? Then do your own research. That's what I did. You can start with my blog and click on the links. You may not like what you see, but none of us will ever see the entire world or know everything with our own eyes. So it comes down to WHAT MAKES SENSE, what people are saying and how it compares with what you actually see with your own eyes.

I'll give you LOTS more stories if you want. Just be careful what you ask for, you just might get it
Yes, that is what you have been doing, you give us stories. Nothing more than that and it doesn't add up.
Maybe you have 300 stories more, sorry but that is not a lot compared to the 30 million workers living here.
And it is nothing compared to the millions of crimes legal citizens are commiting on a daily basis.
We have a president and vice-president who commit crimes.
And you are whining about people who for the most part (99,999999999999999999%) are making sure that America is all it can be!?

[Reportanddeport]

We are talking about an illegal, unregulated, hidden, criminal immigration and human-smuggling industry, and you think I or ANYONE can give you EXACT figures on the number of illegal aliens in America?

EXACT NUMBERS DON'T EXIST. Exact numbers CAN'T exist unless people take this issue seriously and make an attempt to stop the flood of illegal immigration, stop the illegal hiring and then identify who is in the country.





Thanks for admitting that your numbers aren't accurate!
Let's use your 30 million for now. What do you think will happen to the economy and this country if we were to evacuate all of them at once? Or maybe half of them, 15M? We would lose all that revenue.
Do you really think there are 30 million people waiting for their jobs?
.
I agree your statements are pretty pathetic, since the majority of our prisons are over-filled with people born in the US.
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/misc/navbits_finallink.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35133&highlight=%2Aus%2A+%2Aprisoners%2A) <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->U.S. leads world in producing prisoners


Yes, that is what you have been doing, you give us stories. Nothing more than that and it doesn't add up.
Maybe you have 300 stories more, sorry but that is not a lot compared to the 30 million workers living here.
And it is nothing compared to the millions of crimes legal citizens are commiting on a daily basis.
We have a president and vice-president who commit crimes.
And you are whining about people who for the most part (99,999999999999999999%) are making sure that America is all it can be!?

[MsTerry]

maybe not exact, but I think there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between 5 million, 12 million and 40 million.
but then again, you don't want to address the issues I raise either


We are talking about an illegal, unregulated, hidden, criminal immigration and human-smuggling industry, and you think I or ANYONE can give you EXACT figures on the number of illegal aliens in America?

EXACT NUMBERS DON'T EXIST. Exact numbers CAN'T exist unless people take this issue seriously and make an attempt to stop the flood of illegal immigration, stop the illegal hiring and then identify who is in the country.

[thewholetruth]

No there isn't. Take a group of 5 million and make it 12 million and you won't see any difference. It's TOO MANY PEOPLE, MsTerry. 5 million is TOO MANY. 12 million is TOO MANY.

By all estimates, more than 10% of the Mexican population is here illegally. That is ridiculous, and that is our fault for allowing it.

There is no arguing that fact.

Don



maybe not exact, but I think there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between 5 million, 12 million and 40 million.
but then again, you don't want to address the issues I raise either

[MsTerry]

:hmmm:

No there isn't. Take a group of 5 million and make it 12 million and you won't see any difference.
Don
:hmmm:

[thewholetruth]

You can't see that many people at one time, MsTerry, due to the curvature of the earth.

Try using your head instead of scratching it. LOL


:hmmm:

:hmmm:

[MsTerry]

You can't see that many people at one time, MsTerry, due to the curvature of the earth.


If you can't see them and you can't count them, why do you make such a big issue out of this?

[thewholetruth]

Oh, we see them and we count them. You were wigging out about whether there were 5 million or 40 million. What difference does that make? There are millions of them, MsTerry. That is a problem, has become a problem, and will continue to be a problem until it is addressed.

Don


If you can't see them and you can't count them, why do you make such a big issue out of this?

[Zeno Swijtink]

Here is a story on npr this morning that pertains to this thread

****

Citizenship Checks on Wash. Ferries Stir Controversy
by Martin Kaste

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90060908

Morning Edition, April 30, 2008 · The U.S. Border Patrol has started regularly checking the citizenship of passengers on certain ferries inside Washington state. Such nationality checks are common in the Southwest, but along the Canadian border, they're still relatively new — and to many people, the checkpoints have come as a shock.

A ferry from Friday Harbor on San Juan Island to Anacortes, a town on the coast, follows a domestic route — it never leaves U.S. waters. Yet, when it arrives in Anacortes, there's a chance that passengers will be greeted by the Border Patrol.

Joe Giuliano, a Border Patrol spokesman, explains what might happen if there is a checkpoint when this ferry docks.

"We're asking you your nationality and citizenship. ... If you have no paperwork with you, then we either have to be convinced by you, or run some other records checks, either on your vehicle or the name you give us, to attempt to validate that," he says.

Close Enough to Canada

Washington state's San Juans are a cluster of picture-postcard islands known for small farms, bed-and-breakfasts and whale-watching. They also happen to be close enough to Canada that an illegal immigrant or a smuggler might kayak across and then take a domestic ferry to the U.S. mainland. The Border Patrol says that's why it needs to have a "choke point" at the Anacortes dock.

On this day, though, it looks as though there will be no checks. Passengers are let straight off the ferry — and Vinnie O'Connor is relieved not to have to stop and attest to his citizenship.

"If it bugs me [to have to answer that question], I'm not going to say anything. I want to get through the line and get in my car and go home," O'Connor says.

It certainly bugs some people. William Ginsig, who lives on Orcas Island, encountered the checkpoint for the first time a couple of weeks ago.

"When we got there, there was this big guy, came over to the car. I rolled down the window, and he says, 'Oh, you're American, go ahead.' The hysterical part about all this is, my wife is a French citizen," Ginsig says.

Rights to Privacy

Upset islanders even called Seattle immigration lawyer Matt Adams, director of the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, to give them a mini legal seminar.

"They can ask you where you're from; they can ask you to show your papers or to show your driver's license or to show your birth certificate — but you don't have to provide that information," Adams says.

Because these checkpoints are not on the border, people have a greater right to privacy, Adams says.

"What I suggest to individuals is to politely refuse to answer questions, and then if they still don't let you go, to say 'Am I under arrest? If I'm not under arrest, I'd like to continue on my way,' " he says.

There have been a few protests: A couple of passengers tried answering the citizenship question by flashing American flags that they had painted on their wrists. They were only delayed. But for illegal immigrants, the stakes are higher.

An Immigrant's Perspective

On San Juan Island, an illegal immigrant from Mexico watches the ferry arrive. Asking not to be identified, she says she no longer dares to go off the island.

"If you go off island and you don't have the whole family with you and you get stopped there, you're going to get deported, and what about the rest of your family?" she says.

She says she feels trapped — but not everyone is sympathetic.

"If you do something willfully and you say 'I'm not going to pay attention to this law,' and then that law catches up with you, then the right thing to do is accept the consequences," says Chris Clark, a longtime Friday Harbor resident.

Clark is annoyed at fellow islanders who oppose the checkpoints. He says the number of illegal immigrants on the islands has jumped in the past decade or so. Some locals complain about being undercut by illegal workers, especially in the landscaping business.

Tightening Security

Border Patrol spokesman Giuliano says it's time that enforcement caught up.

"The Border Patrol presence on the northern border was not really what we would have liked it to have been for a great many years," Giuliano says. "And in the wake of 9/11, we're starting to get resourced up, and we're finally reaching that point where we're doing these things that, in all honesty, we should have been doing all along."

Many locals acknowledge that border security probably needs to be tighter. But on these cozy islands, high security still comes as something of a culture shock.

"It's a visceral thing," says Howie Rosenfeld, chairman of the county council. "It just seems like we're not the free and brave country that we were. We seem to be sinking into some sort of a fear-based society."

Rosenfeld says he plans to cooperate with the checkpoints, but he hopes it isn't something he'll have to get used to.

[Zeno Swijtink]

"Imagine if we spent the money going to "the fence" improving agriculture in Mexico."

LOL Or better yet, imagine if we spent the money in America, for anything, for the benefit of Americans. It is, after all, American money you're talking about that you want us to spend in Mexico, Jeff.

Don

Pastor, does God the Almighty have the words "American," "Mexican" in His dictionary?

What's the Born-Again approach to common folks trying to make a life? To the Fact that 91% of the Mexican population are Christian brothers of the Catholic persuasion?

[Reportanddeport]

Yes, I know about that. On April 22, I found the story in the Seattle Times, and I copied the story and sent it on to everyone in my address book and to the autor of the story with the following introduction:
SINCE WHEN would law-abiding Americans be "outraged" by the Border Patrol doing it's job?
As long as it is Constitutional, I have NO problem with the Border Patrol conducting inspections on ferries in Washingston State. With the San Juan Islands being an entry route for illegal aliens, it seems completely proper for the Border Patrol to be monitoring what goes on there.
Your article was nothing but an anti-American hit piece, masquerading as "news". Traitors complaining about Border Patrol operations is NOT worthy of a story, but rather, the reporting of something ILLEGAL is worthy of a story. Maybe if the Border Patrol actually did something illegal, you'd have something to report. But your story is just your anti-American propaganda, coming out of the mouths of others.
For people to COMPLAIN about ILLEGAL ALIENS BEING CAUGHT and then to PAY BAIL FOR THEM shows how sick and un-American some of you people are.
You SHOULD do a story THANKING the Border Patrol for doing it's job and PROTECTING YOUR UNGRATEFUL ASS, instead of trying to drum up oppsition for them.
God bless America and TO HELL WITH YOUR ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Jeff Wilson,



Here is a story on npr this morning that pertains to this thread

****

Citizenship Checks on Wash. Ferries Stir Controversy
by Martin Kaste

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90060908

Morning Edition, April 30, 2008 · The U.S. Border Patrol has started regularly checking the citizenship of passengers on certain ferries inside Washington state. Such nationality checks are common in the Southwest, but along the Canadian border, they're still relatively new — and to many people, the checkpoints have come as a shock.

A ferry from Friday Harbor on San Juan Island to Anacortes, a town on the coast, follows a domestic route — it never leaves U.S. waters. Yet, when it arrives in Anacortes, there's a chance that passengers will be greeted by the Border Patrol.

Joe Giuliano, a Border Patrol spokesman, explains what might happen if there is a checkpoint when this ferry docks.

"We're asking you your nationality and citizenship. ... If you have no paperwork with you, then we either have to be convinced by you, or run some other records checks, either on your vehicle or the name you give us, to attempt to validate that," he says.

Close Enough to Canada

Washington state's San Juans are a cluster of picture-postcard islands known for small farms, bed-and-breakfasts and whale-watching. They also happen to be close enough to Canada that an illegal immigrant or a smuggler might kayak across and then take a domestic ferry to the U.S. mainland. The Border Patrol says that's why it needs to have a "choke point" at the Anacortes dock.

On this day, though, it looks as though there will be no checks. Passengers are let straight off the ferry — and Vinnie O'Connor is relieved not to have to stop and attest to his citizenship.

"If it bugs me [to have to answer that question], I'm not going to say anything. I want to get through the line and get in my car and go home," O'Connor says.

It certainly bugs some people. William Ginsig, who lives on Orcas Island, encountered the checkpoint for the first time a couple of weeks ago.

"When we got there, there was this big guy, came over to the car. I rolled down the window, and he says, 'Oh, you're American, go ahead.' The hysterical part about all this is, my wife is a French citizen," Ginsig says.

Rights to Privacy

Upset islanders even called Seattle immigration lawyer Matt Adams, director of the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, to give them a mini legal seminar.

"They can ask you where you're from; they can ask you to show your papers or to show your driver's license or to show your birth certificate — but you don't have to provide that information," Adams says.

Because these checkpoints are not on the border, people have a greater right to privacy, Adams says.

"What I suggest to individuals is to politely refuse to answer questions, and then if they still don't let you go, to say 'Am I under arrest? If I'm not under arrest, I'd like to continue on my way,' " he says.

There have been a few protests: A couple of passengers tried answering the citizenship question by flashing American flags that they had painted on their wrists. They were only delayed. But for illegal immigrants, the stakes are higher.

An Immigrant's Perspective

On San Juan Island, an illegal immigrant from Mexico watches the ferry arrive. Asking not to be identified, she says she no longer dares to go off the island.

"If you go off island and you don't have the whole family with you and you get stopped there, you're going to get deported, and what about the rest of your family?" she says.

She says she feels trapped — but not everyone is sympathetic.

"If you do something willfully and you say 'I'm not going to pay attention to this law,' and then that law catches up with you, then the right thing to do is accept the consequences," says Chris Clark, a longtime Friday Harbor resident.

Clark is annoyed at fellow islanders who oppose the checkpoints. He says the number of illegal immigrants on the islands has jumped in the past decade or so. Some locals complain about being undercut by illegal workers, especially in the landscaping business.

Tightening Security

Border Patrol spokesman Giuliano says it's time that enforcement caught up.

"The Border Patrol presence on the northern border was not really what we would have liked it to have been for a great many years," Giuliano says. "And in the wake of 9/11, we're starting to get resourced up, and we're finally reaching that point where we're doing these things that, in all honesty, we should have been doing all along."

Many locals acknowledge that border security probably needs to be tighter. But on these cozy islands, high security still comes as something of a culture shock.

"It's a visceral thing," says Howie Rosenfeld, chairman of the county council. "It just seems like we're not the free and brave country that we were. We seem to be sinking into some sort of a fear-based society."

Rosenfeld says he plans to cooperate with the checkpoints, but he hopes it isn't something he'll have to get used to.

[Braggi]

...
SINCE WHEN would law-abiding Americans be "outraged" by the Border Patrol doing it's job?
...
God bless America and TO HELL WITH YOUR ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Jeff Wilson,

Well, I'm not outraged, but it does seem like they could be doing something more productive, like going after the kind of folks featured in the articles you insist on posting here.

You know Jeff, you're just so mean and nasty in your rants, you become a caricature of yourself, and it's not a pretty picture. I'm sure all your readers dismiss what you say and throw your letters in the trash while exclaiming it was just a crank letter.

Learn to be a little more civil and you might be able to accomplish something meaningful.

-Jeff

[Zeno Swijtink]

God bless America and TO HELL WITH YOUR ILLEGAL ALIENS. - Jeff Wilson,

What is this "America" you wish God will bless?

[Reportanddeport]

The Border Patrol only conducts BORDER operations. They work AT the Border and within a short distance from it. It's their job to try and keep the illegal aliens, drugs and weapons from getting into the country. So that would explain why they would check out the San Juan Island ferries. It's up to ICE to go and catch the illegal aliens who make it past the borders.

So the BP needs to keep doing what it's doing and ICE should do a LOT MORE of what it's doing. But they all work for Jorge W. Bush, who DOESN'T WANT them to catch all the rapists and killers, because that would reduce the supply of illegal aliens and force employers to hire AMERICANS, and Bush A'INT GONNA LET THAT HAPPEN.

I'm no more mean and nasty than all the people here who constantly shoot their dismissive, contrarian, psychological and hateful remarks at me. In all things I TELL IT LIKE IT IS, and if people are rude to me then I will be rude back.

I send out poison to the PUSHERS of poison, like the Seattle Times and the San Francisco Chronicle.

One of my recent blog posts was picked up by CNN and several patriot sites and I got over 300 hits and 8 comments in a two day period. So it's not like the rest of the world sees me the same way you do.




Well, I'm not outraged, but it does seem like they could be doing something more productive, like going after the kind of folks featured in the articles you insist on posting here.

You know Jeff, you're just so mean and nasty in your rants, you become a caricature of yourself, and it's not a pretty picture. I'm sure all your readers dismiss what you say and throw your letters in the trash while exclaiming it was just a crank letter.

Learn to be a little more civil and you might be able to accomplish something meaningful.

-Jeff

[thewholetruth]

Sir, our first ministry is at home. We (Americans) are doing a very poor job of taking care of our family here in America, IMO. We're not called to serve others first, not our neighbors, not our church, not people from other nations. We're called to serve our family first. As far as Americans, in the global community, are concerned, America is our family.

We have matters we need to attend to here at home before we can go out and try to save the world. Just as the affairs and matters in my home with my wife and children come first, before I am available to go minister to others in the community. In fact, a good pastor will tell those who serve his/her church to take a break from serving the church when he learns that they have matters which need their attention at home.

Don


Pastor, does God the Almighty have the words "American," "Mexican" in His dictionary?

What's the Born-Again approach to common folks trying to make a life? To the Fact that 91% of the Mexican population are Christian brothers of the Catholic persuasion?

[thewholetruth]

Pastor, does God the Almighty have the words "American," "Mexican" in His dictionary?

Which dictionary is that, sir?


What's the Born-Again approach to common folks trying to make a life?

I don't speak for the "Born-Again" community, nor do I portend to. However, my position on the subject, of which my faith lies is:

Trust the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight. Proverbs 3:5-6

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phillipians 4:13

I consider all of us to be common folk.


To the Fact that 91% of the Mexican population are Christian brothers of the Catholic persuasion?

I praise the Lord that there are so many believers in Mexico, and I trust that they are in Good Hands if they have placed themselves in His hands.

Don

[thewholetruth]

What is this "America" you wish God will bless?

Logic dictates that he is referring to the citizens of America, Zeno. We, the citizens, are Americans. I may be wrong about that as I don't mean to speak for Jeff. Your question simply seems rhetorical to me.

Don

[Zeno Swijtink]

Logic dictates that he is referring to the citizens of America, Zeno. We, the citizens, are Americans. I may be wrong about that as I don't mean to speak for Jeff. Your question simply seems rhetorical to me.

Don

I find it ironic that the song was written by a Jewish emigrant from Russia. The song is about the land, only indirectly about the people, in such references as a "free land." Certainly not about a political concept as "citizens."

****

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:
God Bless America.
Land that I love
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies ,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America
My home sweet home.

God Bless America,
Land that I love
Stand beside her,
And guide her,
Through the night
With the light from above,
From the mountains,
To the prairies,
To the ocean,
White with foam,
God bless America,
My home sweet home.
God bless America,
My home sweet home.

[thewholetruth]

Then you imagine that, used anywhere, the term "America" includes illegal aliens, Zeno? Is that what you're saying? So in a national song about Iraq, would they be referring to our soldiers who have invaded that country? Did Poland's national anthem come to include Nazi invaders during occupation?

Logic and reason seem to be on back order around here in WaccoBB sometimes. :wink:

Don


I find it ironic that the song was written by a Jewish emigrant from Russia. The song is about the land, only indirectly about the people, in such references as a "free land." Certainly not about a political concept as "citizens."

****

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:
God Bless America.
Land that I love
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies ,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America
My home sweet home.

God Bless America,
Land that I love
Stand beside her,
And guide her,
Through the night
With the light from above,
From the mountains,
To the prairies,
To the ocean,
White with foam,
God bless America,
My home sweet home.
God bless America,
My home sweet home.

[Braggi]

...

I send out poison to the PUSHERS of poison, like the Seattle Times and the San Francisco Chronicle.

One of my recent blog posts was picked up by CNN and several patriot sites and I got over 300 hits and 8 comments in a two day period. So it's not like the rest of the world sees me the same way you do.

People on the highway slow down and take a look at fatal crashes too. That doesn't mean they support the existence of those fatal crashes.

A lot of people are curious about social pathology.

-Jeff

[Zeno Swijtink]

Then you imagine that, used anywhere, the term "America" includes illegal aliens, Zeno? Is that what you're saying? So in a national song about Iraq, would they be referring to our soldiers who have invaded that country? Did Poland's national anthem come to include Nazi invaders during occupation?

Logic and reason seem to be on back order around here in WaccoBB sometimes. :wink:

Don

No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that Berlin's 1918 song talks about the land, the beauty of that land, and the promise of that land for people who yearn of freedom all over the world, that he, Israel Isidore Beilin, as an emigrant from Russia was particular aware of.

If this song is about people, it is about all people of the world - no matter where they live, what their citizenship is, or whether they have any citizenship - who share this yearning.

[thewholetruth]

I find it ironic that the song was written by a Jewish emigrant from Russia.

Nothing ironic about it. They found refuge here and made it their HOME. Not so, the illegal aliens of today. They come here and send their money HOME to Mexico.


The song is about the land, only indirectly about the people, in such references as a "free land." Certainly not about a political concept as "citizens."

It's a legal concept, Zeno, not a political concept, and illegal aliens don't qualify.


While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,

They swear no such allegiance, Zeno. None. They don't want to be citizens of America, they only want to take the money and send it to THEIR home, the land that they swear allegiance to. You remember: Mexico.


Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer:
God Bless America.

I doubt greatly that they pray for our country, Zeno. Be realistic, sir. Sure, they might be grateful for this land, like a flea is grateful to find a warm body to drain. I doubt they give much thought to gratitude, really.


Land that I love

This isn't the land that they love. Mexico is the land that they love.


Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.

None of that is true. They don't stand beside America, don't participate in guiding her, and they operate in the dark, certainly not with a light from above.


From the mountains, to the prairies ,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America
My home sweet home.

Not their home. My wife's side of the family is here from Mexico. They've all become citizens, NOT because it's the land that they love, but because they don't want to be deported. They still plan on going back to Mexico when they've saved enough money. This is not their home. It's their temporary work assignment.

This song is not their song, Zeno, not by a long shot.

Don

[thewholetruth]

This song is about America, Zeno. It references where they live, where they claim allegiance, where they call home. It's about our country, Zeno, not some diluted idealistic wonderland that could be anywhere. It's about our nation.

Don


No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that Berlin's 1918 song talks about the land, the beauty of that land, and the promise of that land for people who yearn of freedom all over the world, that he, Israel Isidore Beilin, as an emigrant from Russia was particular aware of.

If this song is about people, it is about all people of the world - no matter where they live, what their citizenship is, or whether they have any citizenship - who share this yearning.

[Zeno Swijtink]

(...) They don't want to be citizens of America, they only want to take the money and send it to THEIR home, the land that they swear allegiance to. You remember: Mexico. (...)

As described in Today's Press Democrats, most illegal immigrants prefer to become American Citizens and have their families join them here. That's their American Dream.

I guess you will be out there today with the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps??


*****
https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080501/NEWS/805010357/1033/

New voices draw parallels in plight of illegal immigrants

SR march unites county Jewish, Asian communities with Latinos

By Martin Espinoza
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
May 01, 2008


Sometime after lunch, when 12-year-old twins Levi and Sophie Gittleman complete this morning's standardized tests at their elementary school, their father, Rabbi George Gittleman, will pick them up to join thousands of others in today's pro-immigration rally and march through downtown Santa Rosa.

The event, organized by local immigrant rights groups, is expected to be one of many May 1 demonstrations across the country protesting federal immigration raids and international economic policies that they say push workers in impoverished countries to cross borders illegally.

Gittleman, who heads Congregation Shomrei Torah, Santa Rosa's reform Jewish synagogue, said he asked permission to take his kids out of school early.

"I want my kids to understand that this is part of being a Jew, to stand up for the rights of other people," he said.

It is the first year that Gittleman's congregation will participate in a rally that has in the past been dominated by issues related to Latino illegal immigrants. The rabbi drew parallels between the Jewish experience in history and that of Latino immigrants in the United States.

"We as Jews know what it's like to be discriminated, oppressed and scapegoated," he said. "It wasn't that long ago that it was our experience."

Another new voice in today's event will be that of the Sonoma County Chapter of Japanese American Citizens League.

Representatives of both groups said they are participating in the marches because the country's political quandary over illegal immigration affects everyone, not just the country's Latinos.

Lina Hoshino, a board member of the local Japanese American Citizens League, said the region's Asian community has its "share of recent immigrants and some of them are not documented, and they're living in fear."

Hoshino, who recalled a time when federal immigration policies excluded many immigrants from Asian countries, said that currently "there are at least 80,000 undocumented Asian immigrants in the Bay Area alone, and it can be as high as 180,000."

She said they are in the United States illegally not because they do not want to become legal residents, but because current immigration policies make doing so very difficult.

David Cardenas, an organizer with the Graton Day Labor Center and a key organizer of today's marches, said the purpose of the event is threefold and includes support of a local "county of refuge" for undocumented immigrants in Sonoma County, as well as a call for Sonoma County Sheriff's Department to end cooperation with federal immigration officials.

Local Sheriff's Department officials have said that their participation with federal immigration agents focuses on serious criminal and gang activity.

But local immigrant rights advocates have repeatedly claimed that such law enforcement efforts sometimes result in the deportation of young men with no gang ties.

Cardenas welcomed participation from new groups in today's rally and marches.

"It's one of the most important aspects of this movement," he said. "In organizing it, we've been able to affect broader participation."

A counterdemonstration, organized by the local chapter of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, is scheduled to take place on the other side of Sonoma Avenue, just a few yards from the site at Juilliard Park where today's marches will end.

William Gifford, director of the Sonoma County chapter of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, said he and others participating in the counter demonstration were not opposed to legal immigration, but rather "open border" policies that have allowed millions to enter the country illegally.

Gifford rejected the call for immigration reform.

"We don't need any more immigration reform. We have immigration laws now that were put in place in 1986 that were never enforced," he said. "We need to serve the cause of the American public and citizens."

While Gittleman acknowledged that the rule of law is essential, he rejected what he called a double standard.

"Basically, we're happy to look the other way and let these people come illegally because we need them to run our economy, pick our fruit and clean our toilets," Gittleman said. "But God forbid they should end up in our schools or in our hospitals."

The country, he said, should either create an economy that does not rely on immigrant labor or create a "just" immigration system that allows for immigrants to come into this country to both work and reap the benefits of living here.

"We can't have it both ways," he said.

You can reach Staff Writer Martin Espinoza at 521-5213 or [email protected].

[thewholetruth]

As described in Today's Press Democrats, most illegal immigrants prefer to become American Citizens and have their families join them here. That's their American Dream.

It said nothing of the sort, Zeno. Read it again, only this time don't read your own POV into it. It NEVER says "they prefer to become American Citizens", bro. You made that up. It NEVER says they want to "have their families join them here". You made that up. And it never says it's "their American Dream". You made that up too. Wow. Your entire statement was a boldfaced lie, Zeno.

The article says: "She said they are in the United States illegally not because they do not want to become legal residents, but because current immigration policies make doing so very difficult." Nothing in there about "their American Dream". The article says that "it's NOT that they don't want to become legal residents" and you transposed that into "they PREFER to become American Citizens and have their families join them here". Wow. That's a freaking stretch, sir, and a great example of how someone presents a lie as the truth. Your statement isn't even close to the truth, Zeno. Dangerous, what you just did here, literally FABRICATING crap and claiming it's in an article, which it's not, and really, you're just lying and making it up. They didn't say ANYTHING about preferring to become American Citizens, Zeno. They said that it's not that they don't want to become "legal residents". You imagined that "legal residents" meant "American Citizens" sir? LOL What a leap, and what a crock. "Legal residents" means they have permission to be here.

"I guess you will be out there today with the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps??"

I may stop in and offer some support. :wink:

Now please, Zeno, if you want to continue having any credibility here, you need to stop fabricating outright lies and calling them the truth. That's what you did in this post, sir.

Don


*****
https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080501/NEWS/805010357/1033/

New voices draw parallels in plight of illegal immigrants

SR march unites county Jewish, Asian communities with Latinos

By Martin Espinoza
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
May 01, 2008


Sometime after lunch, when 12-year-old twins Levi and Sophie Gittleman complete this morning's standardized tests at their elementary school, their father, Rabbi George Gittleman, will pick them up to join thousands of others in today's pro-immigration rally and march through downtown Santa Rosa.

The event, organized by local immigrant rights groups, is expected to be one of many May 1 demonstrations across the country protesting federal immigration raids and international economic policies that they say push workers in impoverished countries to cross borders illegally.

Gittleman, who heads Congregation Shomrei Torah, Santa Rosa's reform Jewish synagogue, said he asked permission to take his kids out of school early.

"I want my kids to understand that this is part of being a Jew, to stand up for the rights of other people," he said.

It is the first year that Gittleman's congregation will participate in a rally that has in the past been dominated by issues related to Latino illegal immigrants. The rabbi drew parallels between the Jewish experience in history and that of Latino immigrants in the United States.

"We as Jews know what it's like to be discriminated, oppressed and scapegoated," he said. "It wasn't that long ago that it was our experience."

Another new voice in today's event will be that of the Sonoma County Chapter of Japanese American Citizens League.

Representatives of both groups said they are participating in the marches because the country's political quandary over illegal immigration affects everyone, not just the country's Latinos.

Lina Hoshino, a board member of the local Japanese American Citizens League, said the region's Asian community has its "share of recent immigrants and some of them are not documented, and they're living in fear."

Hoshino, who recalled a time when federal immigration policies excluded many immigrants from Asian countries, said that currently "there are at least 80,000 undocumented Asian immigrants in the Bay Area alone, and it can be as high as 180,000."

She said they are in the United States illegally not because they do not want to become legal residents, but because current immigration policies make doing so very difficult.

David Cardenas, an organizer with the Graton Day Labor Center and a key organizer of today's marches, said the purpose of the event is threefold and includes support of a local "county of refuge" for undocumented immigrants in Sonoma County, as well as a call for Sonoma County Sheriff's Department to end cooperation with federal immigration officials.

Local Sheriff's Department officials have said that their participation with federal immigration agents focuses on serious criminal and gang activity.

But local immigrant rights advocates have repeatedly claimed that such law enforcement efforts sometimes result in the deportation of young men with no gang ties.

Cardenas welcomed participation from new groups in today's rally and marches.

"It's one of the most important aspects of this movement," he said. "In organizing it, we've been able to affect broader participation."

A counterdemonstration, organized by the local chapter of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, is scheduled to take place on the other side of Sonoma Avenue, just a few yards from the site at Juilliard Park where today's marches will end.

William Gifford, director of the Sonoma County chapter of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, said he and others participating in the counter demonstration were not opposed to legal immigration, but rather "open border" policies that have allowed millions to enter the country illegally.

Gifford rejected the call for immigration reform.

"We don't need any more immigration reform. We have immigration laws now that were put in place in 1986 that were never enforced," he said. "We need to serve the cause of the American public and citizens."

While Gittleman acknowledged that the rule of law is essential, he rejected what he called a double standard.

"Basically, we're happy to look the other way and let these people come illegally because we need them to run our economy, pick our fruit and clean our toilets," Gittleman said. "But God forbid they should end up in our schools or in our hospitals."

The country, he said, should either create an economy that does not rely on immigrant labor or create a "just" immigration system that allows for immigrants to come into this country to both work and reap the benefits of living here.

"We can't have it both ways," he said.

You can reach Staff Writer Martin Espinoza at 521-5213 or [email protected].[/quote]

[kpage9]

Thank you David for your deeply thoughtful piece--really, thank you everyone in this thread. Some of us are actively working on dissolving the reactivity in ourselves, in the interest of being open to circulating more love. This thread has been a great, useful, ongoing trigger, and I'm benefitting so much from my companions' various responses. And my own path has cleared a little on the way.
kathy


quote=Reportanddeport;56654]Jesus a communist? Yeah, he was real Communist. He taught that there was no such thing as God. He warned that "religion was the opiate of the masses" and that you shouldn't believe in it or even HIM. He taught that instead of praying to God, you should just close your eyes and think of Comrade Stalin.
Jesus was an informant for the Roman version of the KGB and he would spy on the Jews and turn them in to be arrested and crucified for "anti-revolutionary" activities. His best buddy, Judas Iscariot, was was the original template for Che Guevara, and he would follow Jesus's orders and go around assassinating people. And Jesus was GAY too. And he did not go around distributing loaves and fishes, he went around distributing pornography and condoms. And Jesus did not believe in or follow the Ten Commandments, he was a member of the ACLU and he went around trying to get all religious artifacts hidden from public view.[/quote]

[Zeno Swijtink]

They don't want to be citizens of America, they only want to take the money and send it to THEIR home, the land that they swear allegiance to. You remember: Mexico.

So what's your evidence that illegal immigrants on the whole do not want to become citizens?

[thewholetruth]

So what's your evidence that illegal immigrants on the whole do not want to become citizens?

One cannot prove a negative, Zeno.

There simply is no evidence that collectively that is their goal. You've offered no evidence that they want to become citizens. You even made up lies to try to make that case, but of course it didn't fly.

There they were in the heart of a demonstration, and even when interviewed by the PD not a single one said they wanted to become citizens here.

To say that they want to become citizens requires you to post some evidence, and you haven't done that.

Don

[Zeno Swijtink]

One cannot prove a negative, Zeno.

There simply is no evidence that collectively that is their goal. You've offered no evidence that they want to become citizens. You even made up lies to try to make that case, but of course it didn't fly.

There they were in the heart of a demonstration, and even when interviewed by the PD not a single one said they wanted to become citizens here.

To say that they want to become citizens requires you to post some evidence, and you haven't done that.

Don

I grant you that the PD article only refers to their wish to become legal. My mistake.

But I am puzzled you can belief and state blankly that they do not want to become citizens but do not need to give evidence since "it's a negative?"

What is a negative, and why can one not support a negative by evidence? And why is it alright to pronounce views in the absence of evidence?

Why could there be no polling data that shows that the larger part of illegals from Mexico do want to retain their Mexican Citizenship?

Enlighten me!

[thewholetruth]

I grant you that the PD article only refers to their wish to become legal. My mistake.

I hope that you take note of what a leap you made regarding that article, Zeno. What you said it said wasn't even close to what it actually said. Hey, we're all inclined to be mistaken from time to time. You certainly don't seem to do it frequently, in my observation.


But I am puzzled you can belief and state blankly that they do not want to become citizens but do not need to give evidence since "it's a negative?"

What is a negative, and why can one not support a negative by evidence?"

One cannot prove that something isn't true. One can prove that something IS true. One cannot prove that something doesn't exist, but one can prove that something DOES exist. Proving a positive is possible because one can gather evidence which proves a given point. Trying to prove a negative doesn't afford one the luxory of evidence, but simply the lack of evidence, which isn't evidence. One can only make the observation that there isn't any known evidence.


And why is it alright to pronounce views in the absence of evidence?

Can you prove something doesn't exist? One can only prove that something DOES exist because one can only provide evidence which proves the positive. A lack of evidence is not evidence.


Why could there be no polling data that shows that the larger part of illegals from Mexico do want to retain their Mexican Citizenship?

That would be proving a positive, Zeno. It would be proving that illegals WANT to retain their citizenship.

You asked me to prove that they don't. That's impossible.


Enlighten me!

LOL I don't know how much enlightening is really taking place around here, sir!

[shellebelle]

Last night as I watched Rich write this and over a long conversation it lead to I was sure I didn't agree.

Today though I read this article from my home town

https://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/30/immigrant.worker/index.html

And suddenly gas prices skyrocketing seems to be the answer to many things including potentially illegal immigration.

So as much as my heart cries "Granny Smith needs her oil for her stove! This isn't fair!" another side says wait a second if things are bad here how many people will return to their native countries since America isn't "The Land of Opportunity" it's been made out to be.

Hmmmm maybe immigration will fix itself via a crashing economy!

[Reportanddeport]

My name is not David, but that is my post you responded to, and it was a response to Ms. Terry saying Jesus was a Communist.

Sounds like you got some issues to work through. Here's a suggestion: STOP WORRYING ABOUT EVERYTHING.


Thank you David for your deeply thoughtful piece--really, thank you everyone in this thread. Some of us are actively working on dissolving the reactivity in ourselves, in the interest of being open to circulating more love. This thread has been a great, useful, ongoing trigger, and I'm benefitting so much from my companions' various responses. And my own path has cleared a little on the way.
kathy


quote=Reportanddeport;56654]Jesus a communist? Yeah, he was real Communist. He taught that there was no such thing as God. He warned that "religion was the opiate of the masses" and that you shouldn't believe in it or even HIM. He taught that instead of praying to God, you should just close your eyes and think of Comrade Stalin.
Jesus was an informant for the Roman version of the KGB and he would spy on the Jews and turn them in to be arrested and crucified for "anti-revolutionary" activities. His best buddy, Judas Iscariot, was was the original template for Che Guevara, and he would follow Jesus's orders and go around assassinating people. And Jesus was GAY too. And he did not go around distributing loaves and fishes, he went around distributing pornography and condoms. And Jesus did not believe in or follow the Ten Commandments, he was a member of the ACLU and he went around trying to get all religious artifacts hidden from public view.[/quote]