nurturetruth
04-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Lot o gratitude goes out to the one who inspired me to post such a poll ~
Period3 !!
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Period3 !!
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View Full Version : In what way do you show "support for our troops?"
handy
04-08-2008, 08:28 AM
The draft came after me in 1966. No lottery yet; just orders out of the blue saying "report for induction". Many of us joined rather than face prison. However lame, it was our excuse.
The current crop of murderers are ALL VOLUNTEERS.
If they're dumb enough to go there,
they're dumb enough to die there.
If they're lucky enough to come back,
they're lucky. Maybe...
Sure seems like an expensive and inefficient way to cull the stupid.
No sympathy.
The current crop of murderers are ALL VOLUNTEERS.
If they're dumb enough to go there,
they're dumb enough to die there.
If they're lucky enough to come back,
they're lucky. Maybe...
Sure seems like an expensive and inefficient way to cull the stupid.
No sympathy.
Braggi
04-08-2008, 09:41 AM
...
The current crop of murderers are ALL VOLUNTEERS.
...
Wow, that's a heavy statement Handy.
I don't personally see the volunteer military people as murderers. The murderers are the leaders that order them around and borrow the money to pay for them, especially those in the White House and Congress. Also, the mercenaries, of which there are now more than 100,000 in Iraq, that the tax dollars of our children and children's children will be paying for. The mercenaries are really murderers for hire, and our representatives in Washington, DC are hiring them in our names. It's so disgusting. This is one of the darkest marks on US history.
The mercenaries are not OUR TROOPS. Big difference.
-Jeff
The current crop of murderers are ALL VOLUNTEERS.
...
Wow, that's a heavy statement Handy.
I don't personally see the volunteer military people as murderers. The murderers are the leaders that order them around and borrow the money to pay for them, especially those in the White House and Congress. Also, the mercenaries, of which there are now more than 100,000 in Iraq, that the tax dollars of our children and children's children will be paying for. The mercenaries are really murderers for hire, and our representatives in Washington, DC are hiring them in our names. It's so disgusting. This is one of the darkest marks on US history.
The mercenaries are not OUR TROOPS. Big difference.
-Jeff
handy
04-08-2008, 10:29 AM
Wow, that's a heavy statement Handy.
I don't personally see the volunteer military people as murderers. The murderers are the leaders that order them around and borrow the money to pay for them, especially those in the White House and Congress. Also, the mercenaries, of which there are now more than 100,000 in Iraq, that the tax dollars of our children and children's children will be paying for. The mercenaries are really murderers for hire, and our representatives in Washington, DC are hiring them in our names. It's so disgusting. This is one of the darkest marks on US history.
The mercenaries are not OUR TROOPS. Big difference.
-Jeff
Aaahh, nuthin heavy...
My main point (sorta) was that in the '60s, the very real threat of rapid punishment (they WOULD come and get you) was a strong fear motivation.
On a hopeful note, the military is not getting the number of volunteers it needs. Maybe the kids are wising up.
I understand the difference you're pointing to, but think it is only a difference of class and pay scale.
Both the cheap cannon fodder(our troops) and the high priced professional(blackwater, etc.) are paid from the same tax base.
We ARE paying for BOTH peanut butter AND caviar.
We cannot afford to continue to support our imperialism. We are running a war with a credit card on a foreign bank.
I don't personally see the volunteer military people as murderers. The murderers are the leaders that order them around and borrow the money to pay for them, especially those in the White House and Congress. Also, the mercenaries, of which there are now more than 100,000 in Iraq, that the tax dollars of our children and children's children will be paying for. The mercenaries are really murderers for hire, and our representatives in Washington, DC are hiring them in our names. It's so disgusting. This is one of the darkest marks on US history.
The mercenaries are not OUR TROOPS. Big difference.
-Jeff
Aaahh, nuthin heavy...
My main point (sorta) was that in the '60s, the very real threat of rapid punishment (they WOULD come and get you) was a strong fear motivation.
On a hopeful note, the military is not getting the number of volunteers it needs. Maybe the kids are wising up.
I understand the difference you're pointing to, but think it is only a difference of class and pay scale.
Both the cheap cannon fodder(our troops) and the high priced professional(blackwater, etc.) are paid from the same tax base.
We ARE paying for BOTH peanut butter AND caviar.
We cannot afford to continue to support our imperialism. We are running a war with a credit card on a foreign bank.
Valley Oak
04-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Jeff, if I'm not mistaken, I believe you are referring to 'Blackwater?' That's the main source of mercenaries that the U.S. is paying for. Blackwater is an American company although a few mercenaries come from abroad, such as Argentina and other places but their numbers are very few. Most mercenaries in Iraq today are American citizens.
And yes, it's pretty disgusting and yet another ugly stain in U.S. history.
Edward
Wow, that's a heavy statement Handy.
I don't personally see the volunteer military people as murderers. The murderers are the leaders that order them around and borrow the money to pay for them, especially those in the White House and Congress. Also, the mercenaries, of which there are now more than 100,000 in Iraq, that the tax dollars of our children and children's children will be paying for. The mercenaries are really murderers for hire, and our representatives in Washington, DC are hiring them in our names. It's so disgusting. This is one of the darkest marks on US history.
The mercenaries are not OUR TROOPS. Big difference.
-Jeff
And yes, it's pretty disgusting and yet another ugly stain in U.S. history.
Edward
Wow, that's a heavy statement Handy.
I don't personally see the volunteer military people as murderers. The murderers are the leaders that order them around and borrow the money to pay for them, especially those in the White House and Congress. Also, the mercenaries, of which there are now more than 100,000 in Iraq, that the tax dollars of our children and children's children will be paying for. The mercenaries are really murderers for hire, and our representatives in Washington, DC are hiring them in our names. It's so disgusting. This is one of the darkest marks on US history.
The mercenaries are not OUR TROOPS. Big difference.
-Jeff
Braggi
04-08-2008, 01:27 PM
Jeff, if I'm not mistaken, I believe you are referring to 'Blackwater?' That's the main source of mercenaries that the U.S. is paying for. ...
Actually, KBR is the big one. (That's Haliburton.)
This is from a couple of years ago since it's almost impossible to get current stats even if you work for the Pentagon. Note this does not include "subcontractors." In other words, they have no idea what's going on. :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/04/AR2006120401311.html
" ...
In addition to about 140,000 U.S. troops, Iraq is now filled with a hodgepodge of contractors. DynCorp International has about 1,500 employees in Iraq, including about 700 helping train the police force. Blackwater USA has more than 1,000 employees in the country, most of them providing private security. Kellogg, Brown and Root, one of the largest contractors in Iraq, said it does not delineate its workforce by country but that it has more than 50,000 employees and subcontractors working in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait. MPRI, a unit of L-3 Communications, has about 500 employees working on 12 contracts, including providing mentors to the Iraqi Defense Ministry for strategic planning, budgeting and establishing its public affairs office. Titan, another L-3 division, has 6,500 linguists in the country.
The Pentagon's latest estimate "further demonstrates the need for Congress to finally engage in responsible, serious and aggressive oversight over the questionable and growing U.S. practice of private military contracting," said Rep. Janice D. Schakowsky (D-Ill.), who has been critical of the military's reliance on contractors. ..."
Big Duh there Janice.
Also, if you do the math this doesn't add up to anywhere near 100,000, so, again, nobody knows how many rapists and murderers, oops, contractors we're paying for.
-Jeff
Actually, KBR is the big one. (That's Haliburton.)
This is from a couple of years ago since it's almost impossible to get current stats even if you work for the Pentagon. Note this does not include "subcontractors." In other words, they have no idea what's going on. :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/04/AR2006120401311.html
" ...
In addition to about 140,000 U.S. troops, Iraq is now filled with a hodgepodge of contractors. DynCorp International has about 1,500 employees in Iraq, including about 700 helping train the police force. Blackwater USA has more than 1,000 employees in the country, most of them providing private security. Kellogg, Brown and Root, one of the largest contractors in Iraq, said it does not delineate its workforce by country but that it has more than 50,000 employees and subcontractors working in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait. MPRI, a unit of L-3 Communications, has about 500 employees working on 12 contracts, including providing mentors to the Iraqi Defense Ministry for strategic planning, budgeting and establishing its public affairs office. Titan, another L-3 division, has 6,500 linguists in the country.
The Pentagon's latest estimate "further demonstrates the need for Congress to finally engage in responsible, serious and aggressive oversight over the questionable and growing U.S. practice of private military contracting," said Rep. Janice D. Schakowsky (D-Ill.), who has been critical of the military's reliance on contractors. ..."
Big Duh there Janice.
Also, if you do the math this doesn't add up to anywhere near 100,000, so, again, nobody knows how many rapists and murderers, oops, contractors we're paying for.
-Jeff
scorpiomoon
04-12-2008, 07:50 PM
Our "troops," many signed up for the National Guard, to protect us here at home not to be part of the regular army. Also, there are places in this country where jobs, where money for food, housing is hard to come by. Poor men are enlisted to kill poor folk overseas. The propoganda wheel fails to mention this fact. I think judgement of them as all murderers is too harsh. They may become murderers at some point in their "service." I have a few family members and friends who are unfortunately serving or getting ready to do so. Judging them does the cause NO good. Calling them murderers reminds me of the guy on the street corner responding to nurture truth's peace sign by calling her a terrorist. Be careful not to become what you oppose. I think in supporting our govt and paying my taxes am I complicit. Are we as taxpayers terrorists for paying when we know our money could be used to kill innocent civilians overseas?? These issues are complex and need to be dealt with with calm dedication. That is how I support the troops. Relate to all as human beings & more and more they will step forward and speak out against the war machine.
Braggi
04-12-2008, 08:36 PM
... I think judgement of them as all murderers is too harsh. They may become murderers at some point in their "service." I have a few family members and friends who are unfortunately serving or getting ready to do so. Judging them does the cause NO good. ..
Not sure if you're referring to me, but if you are, I didn't call our troops murderers. I was referring to the mercenaries who are, in fact, paid to murder people. Some have been accused of rape as well. However, since they are under neither military law nor under civilian law, they are not being prosecuted. However, you and I are paying for them.
Murderers. Yup. Mercenaries. It's a national shame. At least, it should be. I don't think most US citizens even know there are as many of them in Viet Nam, oops!, I mean Iraq as there are US soldiers. Actually, to be fair, most of the "contractors" probably aren't soldiers/mercenaries, but then, nobody has an accurate count, so who knows?
-Jeff
Not sure if you're referring to me, but if you are, I didn't call our troops murderers. I was referring to the mercenaries who are, in fact, paid to murder people. Some have been accused of rape as well. However, since they are under neither military law nor under civilian law, they are not being prosecuted. However, you and I are paying for them.
Murderers. Yup. Mercenaries. It's a national shame. At least, it should be. I don't think most US citizens even know there are as many of them in Viet Nam, oops!, I mean Iraq as there are US soldiers. Actually, to be fair, most of the "contractors" probably aren't soldiers/mercenaries, but then, nobody has an accurate count, so who knows?
-Jeff
Valley Oak
04-12-2008, 08:48 PM
All good points, Natasha!
I know someone through a religious affiliation (Pagan) who served in Iraq. He suffered a bullet wound that went through his lower torso and miraculously non of his vital organs were seriously damaged! His tour was cut very short of what it would have been because he was and is no longer fit for combat.
He had originally joined the National Guard for the exact same reasons that Natasha mentioned. Then, much to everyone's surprise, especially his, he gets sent off to Iraq when his duty was to protect the homeland, not go overseas. I don't know if this is the first time in U.S. history that this has ever been done. I met someone years ago who got out of serving in Vietnam because he joined the Peace Corps. That worked then but I don't know if it would work today.
Because of our common affiliation in the same organization, I found myself buying a large carton full of cigarette packs and sending it off to Iraq and some other stuff, which is what he asked for. I also contributed money for a 'pooled' donation with other members of the same affiliation. All in all, he probably received well over a thousand dollars in assorted gifts.
This is in sharp contrast to my staunch opposition to the war in Iraq. But because my friend was there, I nonetheless supported him, despite any ideological differences we might have.
I have supported our troops in Iraq even if tobacco isn't the best way to do it. But I do NOT support what they are doing there. And I do feel some doubt over the donations I've made. Kind of like someone sending cookies to their friend serving in Hitler's army.
Edward
Our "troops," many signed up for the National Guard, to protect us here at home not to be part of the regular army. Also, there are places in this country where jobs, where money for food, housing is hard to come by. Poor men are enlisted to kill poor folk overseas. The propoganda wheel fails to mention this fact. I think judgement of them as all murderers is too harsh. They may become murderers at some point in their "service." I have a few family members and friends who are unfortunately serving or getting ready to do so. Judging them does the cause NO good. Calling them murderers reminds me of the guy on the street corner responding to nurture truth's peace sign by calling her a terrorist. Be careful not to become what you oppose. I think in supporting our govt and paying my taxes am I complicit. Are we as taxpayers terrorists for paying when we know our money could be used to kill innocent civilians overseas?? These issues are complex and need to be dealt with with calm dedication. That is how I support the troops. Relate to all as human beings & more and more they will step forward and speak out against the war machine.
I know someone through a religious affiliation (Pagan) who served in Iraq. He suffered a bullet wound that went through his lower torso and miraculously non of his vital organs were seriously damaged! His tour was cut very short of what it would have been because he was and is no longer fit for combat.
He had originally joined the National Guard for the exact same reasons that Natasha mentioned. Then, much to everyone's surprise, especially his, he gets sent off to Iraq when his duty was to protect the homeland, not go overseas. I don't know if this is the first time in U.S. history that this has ever been done. I met someone years ago who got out of serving in Vietnam because he joined the Peace Corps. That worked then but I don't know if it would work today.
Because of our common affiliation in the same organization, I found myself buying a large carton full of cigarette packs and sending it off to Iraq and some other stuff, which is what he asked for. I also contributed money for a 'pooled' donation with other members of the same affiliation. All in all, he probably received well over a thousand dollars in assorted gifts.
This is in sharp contrast to my staunch opposition to the war in Iraq. But because my friend was there, I nonetheless supported him, despite any ideological differences we might have.
I have supported our troops in Iraq even if tobacco isn't the best way to do it. But I do NOT support what they are doing there. And I do feel some doubt over the donations I've made. Kind of like someone sending cookies to their friend serving in Hitler's army.
Edward
Our "troops," many signed up for the National Guard, to protect us here at home not to be part of the regular army. Also, there are places in this country where jobs, where money for food, housing is hard to come by. Poor men are enlisted to kill poor folk overseas. The propoganda wheel fails to mention this fact. I think judgement of them as all murderers is too harsh. They may become murderers at some point in their "service." I have a few family members and friends who are unfortunately serving or getting ready to do so. Judging them does the cause NO good. Calling them murderers reminds me of the guy on the street corner responding to nurture truth's peace sign by calling her a terrorist. Be careful not to become what you oppose. I think in supporting our govt and paying my taxes am I complicit. Are we as taxpayers terrorists for paying when we know our money could be used to kill innocent civilians overseas?? These issues are complex and need to be dealt with with calm dedication. That is how I support the troops. Relate to all as human beings & more and more they will step forward and speak out against the war machine.